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View Full Version : Jack as a Starter



OakMoses
01-05-2009, 01:26 PM
He's started 7 games for us this season. Here are the numbers:

18.6 ppg, 54.7% FG, 50% 3pt, 3.6 reb, 4.3 asts, 3.6 TO, 1.6 stls (~37 mpg)

The Pacers are 3-4 in those 7 games and his +/- is +14.

MillerTime
01-05-2009, 01:30 PM
Hes been playing well, but I dont see him taking the starting spot over Ford. Once Ford is healthy, he'll take that #1 spot back

WetBob
01-05-2009, 01:47 PM
He still makes far too many horrible, disgusting errors in extremely critical times.

I watched him play all last year as well, its nothing new.

Jonathan
01-05-2009, 02:25 PM
Jack is a spark plug off the bench. Who starts the game does not matter. Who finishes the game does matter.

pristinecollector
01-05-2009, 02:48 PM
There's been some instances where Jarrett has created the spark to get the Pacers back into the game. TJ doesn't create that spark. He struts, smirks, is a showboat, and doesn't play the game nearly as well as Jarrett.

Anthem
01-05-2009, 02:48 PM
Once Ford is healthy, he'll take that #1 spot back
I thought the same, but how long until Ford is healthy? It's been a while now.

deekay85
01-05-2009, 02:52 PM
Just from the stats I like him as a starter.
I dont know maybe he feels better when he starts.
overall I like bigger guards at the starting position. take for example billups or tinsley

ChicagoJ
01-05-2009, 02:56 PM
Jack is driving my a little crazy. He's a lot like Heywoode Workman - tough nosed but mistake prone. Not the greatest at traditional PG skills but gets the job done somehow.

If he had to start the games, we'd be okay. But we're better off with him backing up somebody. The bigger issue is - who should he back up? (and is that player on the current roster, still on college, or on some other team's roster right now?)

duke dynamite
01-05-2009, 02:56 PM
Ford or Jack, I don't care. As long as one of those guys puts up good numbers and helps us win let the best guy start.

OakMoses
01-05-2009, 03:00 PM
Just from the stats I like him as a starter.
I dont know maybe he feels better when he starts.


I think it has more to do with the amount of minutes. In those 7 games he's playing almost 37 mpg because he only starts when Ford is out or severely limited.

His Ast/TO ratio isn't what you'd like to see from a starting PG, but he definitely brings a lot to the table.

Unclebuck
01-05-2009, 04:04 PM
Drives me crazy - yes, but still very happy he's on the Pacers - he's my type of player

pacerfreak
01-05-2009, 04:17 PM
Call me:loco::loco:...but I'd like to see what Travis could do...as a starter...if completly healthy. He is very smart, has great court vision, and it looks like he might be getting his stroke back. I think he would work very well as a floor leader. Turn him loose I say:D. Jack is doing OK and so has Ford. I'm OK either way really.

OakMoses
01-05-2009, 04:45 PM
Call me:loco::loco:...but I'd like to see what Travis could do...as a starter...if completly healthy. He is very smart, has great court vision, and it looks like he might be getting his stroke back. I think he would work very well as a floor leader. Turn him loose I say:D. Jack is doing OK and so has Ford. I'm OK either way really.

It's one of those brain transplant cases with Travis and Jarret. If you could put Diener's brain in Jack's body, you'd have a near perfect PG.

I love Travis and I think he brings a lot to the floor on offense, but he's a defensive liability. It's not for lack of effort, but he's just not strong enough or quick enough to be a good defender.

I'd love to see O'Brien throw Diener in the game whenever the other team has non-scorer playing PG. You can't really play Diener tonight against Billups, but when Anthony Carter's playing PG he should definitely be in the game.

Anthem
01-05-2009, 05:14 PM
Call me:loco::loco:...but I'd like to see what Travis could do...as a starter.
If you insist. :loco:

Whenever Travis enters the game, the entire offensive system of the other team shifts, and makes PG the point of attack. They go at him every possession.

I'm just starting to get used to having a PG rotation that can spell sieve. I'm not ready to go back to the matador backcourt.

Anthem
01-05-2009, 05:15 PM
The bigger issue is - who should he back up? (and is that player on the current roster, still on college, or on some other team's roster right now?)
He's definitely not on this roster. I doubt he's on another NBA team's roster.

I'm thinking Europe.

Dece
01-05-2009, 05:21 PM
4.3 asts, 3.6 TO... not sure those would even be desirable starting scoring guard numbers, at point they are absolutely brutal.

Lord Helmet
01-05-2009, 07:15 PM
Jack is playing well, but he seems to have Fred Jones-Syndrome with a lot of his passes.

That may be because he feels he needs to make up for the lack of T.J. playing as much and he's trying to make more plays. He's trying, he just makes a lot of mistakes for every good thing he does do out there.

rexnom
01-05-2009, 07:19 PM
He's definitely not on this roster. I doubt he's on another NBA team's roster.

I'm thinking Europe.
Ricky Rubio fan?

MrSparko
01-05-2009, 07:24 PM
Ricky Rubio fan?

Cabbages fan

CableKC
01-05-2009, 07:43 PM
Am I the only one that is somewhat concerned about the 4.3apg that he is putting up in an offense that works best and is most efficient when there is a lot of ball movement and sharing?

Many of you have noted that one of the really good things that Diener does is to move the ball and run the offense efficiently. Since most of you watch more of the games then I do, how is he doing with sharing, distributing and moving the ball?

Not that I am complaining about his 18.6 ppg on 50% shooting, cuz I should care less that someone is scoring that many points.....but one of my concerns with Jack handling the ball more often is his tendency to cough up the ball at the WORST times.

Evan_The_Dude
01-05-2009, 08:33 PM
Am I the only one that is somewhat concerned about the 4.3apg that he is putting up in an offense that works best and is most efficient when there is a lot of ball movement and sharing?

You should never be concerned with assist numbers from the point guard position in our offense. Just as you said there's a lot of ball movement and sharing, which means the point guard only initiates the offense, but isn't supposed to dominate the ball. Diener initiates the offense better than anybody because he always makes the first, easiest, and most efficient pass available, then he makes the quick cut. But even he doesn't get many assists even when he plays big minutes. But with Diener because of the way he passes the ball and when he does it, he doesn't turn the ball over nearly as often.

MyFavMartin
01-05-2009, 08:43 PM
His Ast/TO ratio isn't what you'd like to see from a starting PG, but he definitely brings a lot to the table.

Agreed with the number of assists not being high enough. Very good for a guy just starting his 4th year.

The one problem I've got with Ford is his lack of finishing after blowing past guys. Could he slow down just enough to get a foul call?

El Pacero
01-06-2009, 11:53 AM
I have more of a problem with Ford missing half of his layups, and playing so fast he is out of control and sloppy . . . than the errors by Jack.

At clutch time, I would much rather have Jack than Ford, so it does matter who plays at the end. Start Ford, end with Jack. The End.

Infinite MAN_force
01-06-2009, 12:25 PM
He averages almost as many turnovers as assists, theres your answer. Thats not starting pg material. I like him coming off the bench but not to finish games unless we have no other option.

I haven't completily given up on Ford either. He has all the skills to be a good starting pg but sometimes makes poor decisions. I wanna give him a full year and allow the team to develop a bit more cohesion. He needs to get healthy though.

Infinite MAN_force
01-06-2009, 12:29 PM
I have more of a problem with Ford missing half of his layups, and playing so fast he is out of control and sloppy . . . than the errors by Jack.

At clutch time, I would much rather have Jack than Ford, so it does matter who plays at the end. Start Ford, end with Jack. The End.

are you serious? Jack has single handedly lost us like three games in crunchtime by making an absolutely boneheaded turnover... you know, like charging into three guys jumping up in the air and trying to pass the ball behind him to someone on the other team. He made one game winning shot. I have seen Ford single handedly win us two games at the end. Ford definatly has the better resume at the moment.

Los Angeles
01-06-2009, 01:06 PM
I'm too lazy to look this up, but I'm willing to bet that we have a very comfortable winning record when TJ has a solid game.

As TJ goes, so go the Pacers. (Who does that remind you of?)

Jack is doing OK, Ford is wildly inconsistent. But the pivot of W/L is surely on Ford's head, not Jack's.

As an aside, our overall PG situation gets a 'C' (and that's kind). They've been a disappointment to say the least. At the start of the season I was expecting nothing less than a B+. It was the one position overhaul that had me most excited. What a let-down.