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View Full Version : Post-Game #33 - Pacers Edge Kings



LoneGranger33
01-03-2009, 09:42 PM
It was close, but we actually won - a pleasant change of pace. We hit a streak there with some heartbreaking losses, and a come-from-behind win should give these guys some confidence before they head out on the road.

Putnam
01-03-2009, 09:46 PM
No complaints!

I like the Pacers. I like the coach. I like scoring 120+ points.

JayRedd
01-03-2009, 09:47 PM
KMart was a force of nature. But Danny had phenomenal swag in the 4th.

TJ didn't suck tonight either, which was a nice change of pace. (I kid...sorta. He played very well tonight anyway. Nice dribble dump-offs.)

Major Cold
01-03-2009, 09:48 PM
It's JOB's fault.

LoneGranger33
01-03-2009, 09:48 PM
The next five on the road will likely make or break the season. Dunleavy may be back at the end of this trip, and it would be nice to be a game or three closer to .500 when he returns.

Dr. Awesome
01-03-2009, 09:49 PM
It's JOB's fault.

Decent rotations = win.

Coop
01-03-2009, 09:52 PM
Ford had a quiet 16 and 7 while shooting a good percentage. Solid game from him.

The thing I liked about this game is that JOB was able to coach his kind of game, but we were also able to make stops when it counted. I don't mind games in the 100's, but we need to make stops when the game is on the line. Tonight we did that and we got the W.

LoneGranger33
01-03-2009, 09:53 PM
Decent rotations = win.

I don't know about that. I mean, I didn't want to complain after a win, so I didn't say anything, but I did feel like the substitutions were a bit erratic.

MiaDragon
01-03-2009, 09:54 PM
No complaints!

I like the Pacers. I like the coach. I like scoring 120+ points.

LMAO, we were taken down to the wire by a team that hadnít won on the road all year, YAY!!!

Dr. Awesome
01-03-2009, 09:55 PM
Ford had a quiet 16 and 7 while shooting a good percentage. Solid game from him.

The thing I liked about this game is that JOB was able to coach his kind of game, but we were also able to make stops when it counted. I don't mind games in the 100's, but we need to make stops when the game is on the line. Tonight we did that and we got the W.

He made some decent rotations tonight.

I didn't mind having a Ford/Jack backcourt tonight as Jack seemed to be the only one who could slow down Martin. I still would have liked Hibbert to get more time with the way he was playing, but we got the win.

Dr. Awesome
01-03-2009, 09:56 PM
I don't know about that. I mean, I didn't want to complain after a win, so I didn't say anything, but I did feel like the substitutions were a bit erratic.

Not near as bad as most nights. This was the 1st game all year long that I didn't mind Jack at SG.

ilive4sports
01-03-2009, 09:57 PM
LMAO, we were taken down to the wire by a team that hadnít won on the road all year, YAY!!!

If Kevin Martin had been healthy all year they probably would have a road win by now.

Its a win, I will take it. Two in a row where we win it at the end. Nice to see after we have lost so many at the end.

Justin Tyme
01-03-2009, 09:57 PM
With 3 1/2 minutes to go in the last 2 games being down 5 in one and 6 in the other and coming out winning is good. Step in the right direction with a 2 game winning streak going.

LoneGranger33
01-03-2009, 10:04 PM
It was clear that Rush's in-game mistakes have again earned him a spot in O'Brien's dog house. Hopefully, he'll learn from the discipline and bounce back like he did last time. However, I do worry about him more and more these days - maybe it's because I have inflated expectations of the guy (thanks, in part, to some of your exclamations), but I don't see another Danny Granger in him just yet. But then again, Danny was hesitant at times during his rookie campaign too, so I should probably withhold my judgment till 09-10. Thought it was worth mentioning though, because, at 12-21, Rush is going to be one of the players we focus on for the future.

Justin Tyme
01-03-2009, 10:08 PM
Now, lets see what this team has learned when we play Denver. That's going to be a hard match up for our PG's against Billups. He's big, strong, and has Denver playing well. I don't like the fact we just played BTB with only 1 dayz rest. I'll think positive that JO'B will have them prepared.

WhatCouldHaveBeen
01-03-2009, 10:30 PM
I would like to see the pacers blow a team out for once...wtf the kings suck!

LoneGranger33
01-03-2009, 10:31 PM
Anyone have any thoughts on what we could have done to slow down Kevin Martin? I mean, he was "hot like a pistol" for much of the game, but maybe you coaches out there have some suggestions?

aceace
01-03-2009, 11:01 PM
LMAO, we were taken down to the wire by a team that hadnít won on the road all year, YAY!!!They haven't had Kevin Martin for most of those games.

Justin Tyme
01-03-2009, 11:07 PM
They haven't had Kevin Martin for most of those games.


He's only played like 12 out of the 34 games they have played.

JayRedd
01-03-2009, 11:20 PM
Anyone have any thoughts on what we could have done to slow down Kevin Martin?

Only thing that woulda worked on him tonight was that thing Kathy Bates did in Misery.

When guys like that don't feel like missing, they don't miss.

Dr. Awesome
01-03-2009, 11:24 PM
Anyone have any thoughts on what we could have done to slow down Kevin Martin? I mean, he was "hot like a pistol" for much of the game, but maybe you coaches out there have some suggestions?

Only given him last second shots the whole game. :p

jeffg-body
01-04-2009, 12:30 AM
Right now a win is a win regardless of how ugly it may have been.

VF21
01-04-2009, 12:48 AM
Anyone have any thoughts on what we could have done to slow down Kevin Martin? I mean, he was "hot like a pistol" for much of the game, but maybe you coaches out there have some suggestions?

I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you.

;)

Seriously, when he gets on a roll like that, you're pretty much SOL unless he gets in foul trouble. He can hit from anywhere and you're better off letting him lob from outside than making him go off the dribble and earn +1 at every move...

He's the real deal. Once Hawes gets back, Martin, Thompson and Hawes may actually get Kings fans excited about their team again.

imawhat
01-04-2009, 12:56 AM
Anyone have any thoughts on what we could have done to slow down Kevin Martin? I mean, he was "hot like a pistol" for much of the game, but maybe you coaches out there have some suggestions?

Have someone other than Stephen Graham guard him? He didn't get red hot until Graham lost him all over the court.

Anthem
01-04-2009, 01:16 AM
Have someone other than Stephen Graham guard him? He didn't get red hot until Graham lost him all over the court.
Well, he was already scoring in bunches before that, but it's definitely true that he did a lot of damage against Stephen.

I thought Jack defended him very well at the end.

Kstat
01-04-2009, 01:21 AM
The thing with getting off to a terrible start in the west...you really can't recover.

There are only 9 teams in the west out of 15 that can compete, but the fact remains the 9 that can are all very tough.

Sacramento is pretty much playing out the string already, as are Golden State, Memphis, OKC, Minnesota and the Clippers.

imawhat
01-04-2009, 01:33 AM
Well, he was already scoring in bunches before that, but it's definitely true that he did a lot of damage against Stephen.

I thought Jack defended him very well at the end.


8 points on 2-5 shooting in 9:08 of PT before Stephen Graham entered the game.

17 points on 5-6 shooting in 8:41 of PT after Stephen "bad girlfriend" Graham entered the game.

I understand Jim has to reward players who practice hard and always stay prepared (by all accounts, this is Stephen), and he has punish players who aren't playing well (Rush), but there are other solutions to this.

Shade
01-04-2009, 01:34 AM
Fun game. I got exactly what I wanted; a Pacers win, and a big game from K-Mart for my fantasy team. At least one of my three teams got a W today.

The human slinky freaked me out, though.

rousea24
01-04-2009, 01:43 AM
I was at the game, so if it's been discussed already forgive me, but why didn't Hibbert see much court action in the second half? He had a good offensive first half.

Roaming Gnome
01-04-2009, 01:48 AM
Fun game. I got exactly what I wanted; a Pacers win, and a big game from K-Mart for my fantasy team. At least one of my three teams got a W today.

The human slinky freaked me out, though.

I'd have to agree about the human slinky. Do you remember the monsters from the movie "The Wiz". If you do, well, you might know why I was kinda creeped out.

Trader Joe
01-04-2009, 02:18 AM
It's JOB's fault.

Where was Roy in the 4th? Hmmm? Was Foster playing that well?

Naptown_Seth
01-04-2009, 03:55 AM
Decent rotations = win.
Gotta say that in fairness to the JOB complainers like me (ie, reasonable level of criticism only) you have to admit that changes like starting Roy and getting McBob on the court do seem to magically follow the wins around more than some of the tighter rotations we've seen.

I'd prefer to see Graham's minutes stick with Rush, but BR has been struggling again lately and needs to be pushed with PT limits perhaps. I'd take a bit more of McBob, but not much. And I'd like to see him back off small ball just a tad more.


Okay, so not exactly 2 tough games there, but still they both represented something we haven't seen much of - coming through with a win late in a tight game. Both games featured the Pacers giving up the lead late (still a problem of course) but then breaking the mold by retaking it before the final buzzer.

Maybe these have been "take a step forward" games in terms of learning how to win.

It's about to get really ugly again so a bump like this sure helps. I just hope Dun proves me wrong about his ability to return to the team effectively this season. Realistically these two games showed the flopping in the 4th trait still and against bad teams no less, but baby steps. Learn to hold off the weak teams first, then maybe apply that gut check to .500 caliber teams next.

This west trip could be a make or break turn as road trips often are. They are going to be close quarters and facing tons of adversity. Get some wins and some qualty play and maybe you forge a team. Continue the sloppy mistakes and cheaply blown games and maybe you get 12 guys that are sick of each other by the time they get back to Indy.

Kemo
01-04-2009, 04:00 AM
I was at the game, so if it's been discussed already forgive me, but why didn't Hibbert see much court action in the second half? He had a good offensive first half.

I agree, and would love to see him play more minutes and actually close out a game...

They only reasoning I can possibly see , is that JOB is grooming Roy to be our starting Center .. and he is doing so , by starting him, letting him play about 12 to 15 minutes, and making him learn to be efficient in the time he is on the floor... So THAT WAY , when Roy DOES get extended minutes, he will more likely be consistant, and not run into the rookie wall...

That's the only thing I can come up with ...and I hope I am right..

Naptown_Seth
01-04-2009, 04:10 AM
But then again, Danny was hesitant at times during his rookie campaign too, Understatement of the year. There is a reason Danny was often one of the WORST Pacers in +/- his first two seasons. Lots of talent, tons of mistakes to go with it. Bad case of overthinking the game.

Danny has made very consistent and steady progress all 4 years, just like Pippen did, thus the main reason I started comparing them. Rush is a thinker too and what I've seen in him is over thinking situations or trying to anticipate too much. Sometimes he READS the play correctly, but REACTS with the wrong solution - say coming to the lane to help which leaves his man open to come baseline behind him, stuff like that.

Once he puts his awareness together with the more advanced solutions/strategies of the NBA he'll be just fine.

Graham draws fans because of his offense, but good lord is his defense dreadful. He's like the opening act for Dunleavy because he makes him look like a stopper. ;)


I think with Roy you also have to be aware of the total minutes because he's a big and he's seeing a LOT more games and a much longer season than he's used to. Double that since he was a 4 year NCAA guy meaning he really got used to that pattern. Dude's gotta play in April too so I like finding a specific role for him and grooming him into that. Seems to be working so far.

MillerTime
01-04-2009, 04:20 AM
as good as we were offensively, we sucked at the defensive end

deekay85
01-04-2009, 10:28 AM
No complaints!

I like scoring 120+ points.

I don't like the paces score 120+ points. Maybe it will be enough against bad D teams like the kings or knicks. I wanna see real defense.
Against tough d-teams I don't see any chances.

dohman
01-04-2009, 11:42 AM
Anyone have any thoughts on what we could have done to slow down Kevin Martin? I mean, he was "hot like a pistol" for much of the game, but maybe you coaches out there have some suggestions?

Easy. You start to put some hard fouls on him. He runs threw the paint you have hibbert or murph give him a nice little bump, when he shoots you put a nice foul on him. Before long he is more worried about getting fouled then shooting :)

Justin Tyme
01-04-2009, 12:57 PM
8 points on 2-5 shooting in 9:08 of PT before Stephen Graham entered the game.

17 points on 5-6 shooting in 8:41 of PT after Stephen "bad girlfriend" Graham entered the game.

I understand Jim has to reward players who practice hard and always stay prepared (by all accounts, this is Stephen), and he has punish players who aren't playing well (Rush), but there are other solutions to this.


If he only got 17 of his 45 points off Graham, would you like to tell us who he got the other 28 points off of since you seem to be keeping a record on Graham?

Slick was saying numerous times during the game that whoever was guarding Martin needed to be guarding him on the perimeter. Who was Slick upset with since it wasn't only Graham?

31andonly
01-04-2009, 01:10 PM
Easy. You start to put some hard fouls on him. He runs threw the paint you have hibbert or murph give him a nice little bump, when he shoots you put a nice foul on him. Before long he is more worried about getting fouled then shooting :)

That's really something O'Brien should consider the next time... ;)

Brad8888
01-04-2009, 01:36 PM
Understatement of the year. There is a reason Danny was often one of the WORST Pacers in +/- his first two seasons. Lots of talent, tons of mistakes to go with it. Bad case of overthinking the game.

Danny has made very consistent and steady progress all 4 years, just like Pippen did, thus the main reason I started comparing them. Rush is a thinker too and what I've seen in him is over thinking situations or trying to anticipate too much. Sometimes he READS the play correctly, but REACTS with the wrong solution - say coming to the lane to help which leaves his man open to come baseline behind him, stuff like that.

Once he puts his awareness together with the more advanced solutions/strategies of the NBA he'll be just fine.

Graham draws fans because of his offense, but good lord is his defense dreadful. He's like the opening act for Dunleavy because he makes him look like a stopper. ;)


I think with Roy you also have to be aware of the total minutes because he's a big and he's seeing a LOT more games and a much longer season than he's used to. Double that since he was a 4 year NCAA guy meaning he really got used to that pattern. Dude's gotta play in April too so I like finding a specific role for him and grooming him into that. Seems to be working so far.

I agree on all counts, and am hopeful that you are not being generous on O'Brien's treatment of Hibbert being to groom Hibbert into being conditioned for the rigors of an 82 game season.

I also believe that Rush ovethinks on offense as well as defense, as opposed to allowing his natural talent to come through at times, especially on his shooting. Athletically, Brandon is possibly the best overall athlete on the roster. I just hope he is given a fair chance to develop here before we ship him off to blossom elsewhere.

A combination of Granger with a properly developed Rush on the wings, coupled with a fully developed beast on the interior in Hibbert, with an additional development of the very energetic McRoberts could lead to a bright future.

BlueNGold
01-04-2009, 01:38 PM
as good as we were offensively, we sucked at the defensive end

Give up on this team having a decent defense. It will never happen without pretty big changes to what is currently in place. You're best bet is to sit back and enjoy the offense, at least in the regular season games against lesser opponents. We should torch 25% of the teams simply with our offense once Dunleavy returns.

Eventually, a couple things will happen...hopefully sooner rather than later. First, we will acquire better talent. Second, management will figure out that a certain coaching style will be needed to get to the next level. That happened when they brought in Larry Brown in the 90's and it will happen again.

JayRedd
01-04-2009, 02:21 PM
For those that missed it, some really handsome guy did a recap for Indy Cornrows.

http://www.indycornrows.com/2009/1/3/708439/is-two-a-streak

Trader Joe
01-04-2009, 02:27 PM
I still want someone to tell me why Roy Hibbert didn't play AT ALL in the 4th quarter.

Brad8888
01-04-2009, 02:37 PM
I still want someone to tell me why Roy Hibbert didn't play AT ALL in the 4th quarter.

Because O'Brien has a fatally flawed view of what it takes to coach a successful team that develops it youth for the future, especially if it shows promise in a game now.

Naptown_Seth
01-04-2009, 02:47 PM
For those that missed it, some really handsome guy did a recap for Indy Cornrows.

http://www.indycornrows.com/2009/1/3/708439/is-two-a-streak
Oh great, more ego tripping attention. You don't feed the bears for a reason you know. Look what happened when they gave Kravitz his own column.





(I hate to do this but...good write-up, really good in fact)

Putnam
01-04-2009, 02:54 PM
Shogun assassin?





I still want someone to tell me why Roy Hibbert didn't play AT ALL in the 4th quarter.

Why can't you accept the answer that has been given? O'Brien has a schedule for bringing Hibbert along, and he's sticking to it.

Trader Joe
01-04-2009, 03:14 PM
I don't think that is a legitimate reason to hold someone back when they are showing improvement and playing great basketball.

Coop
01-04-2009, 03:27 PM
Tell JOB that.

imawhat
01-04-2009, 03:29 PM
I don't think that is a legitimate reason to hold someone back when they are showing improvement and playing great basketball.

I'm sure what Putnam's saying is part of it, but that's not all.

I think he's getting yanked because of defensive mistakes and fatigue, which have made him ineffective in the 2nd half of games.

He did have a couple of nice blocks yesterday, but he's constantly getting out of position. Having Rasho on the team exaggerates that, because he has the same quickness issues and rarely gets out of position.

I don't blame JOB at all. Any coach concerned with winning should pull Roy until he can show that he can maintain what he's done in the early 1st quarter.

Sollozzo
01-04-2009, 03:41 PM
as good as we were offensively, we sucked at the defensive end

Isn't that the story of the entire season?

kester99
01-04-2009, 04:59 PM
Roy has some very good stretches, and some amazingly bad stretches. We couldn't afford for bad Roy to show up in that 4th. I'm sure the coach is gaining more and more confidence in him -- he's starting -- but he can see the inconsistency as easily as anyone else.

Putnam
01-04-2009, 06:25 PM
I don't think that is a legitimate reason to hold someone back when they are showing improvement and playing great basketball.


Ever heard of the Peter Principle? If Hibbert gets more time as long as he plays well in the time he's given, then he is SURE to eventually get overwhelmed and begin to fail.

Anyway, he IS getting rewarded with more playing time. At the rate he is going, he may be up to 30 minutes by the end of the season.

Anthem
01-04-2009, 06:34 PM
Anyway, he IS getting rewarded with more playing time. At the rate he is going, he may be up to 30 minutes by the end of the season.
If he's ready for it.

He's apparently in the best shape of his life now, and you can see him getting fatigued. I'm still expecting a rookie wall from him post-ASB.

And that doesn't mean I'm not thrilled with his progress. Simply great pick at #17.

Anthem
01-04-2009, 06:35 PM
For those that missed it, some really handsome guy did a recap for Indy Cornrows.

http://www.indycornrows.com/2009/1/3/708439/is-two-a-streak
I dunno about handsome, but that's some good-a$$ sportswriting there. I'd read that over the Indystar (oh wait, I do).

Glad to know I'm not the only one that really paid attention to that crazy drive by Granger. I'm with you on that... it was, no exaggeration, the most impressive drive by Granger that I've ever seen.