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MillerTime
01-01-2009, 04:58 PM
Indiana point guard T.J. Ford has some big plans for 2009, including a trip to the postseason.

"Making it to the playoffs," Ford said of his New Year's resolution.

Author: Star Staff
Website: Indystar.com
http://www.indystar.com/article/20090101/NEWS/901010400

grace
01-01-2009, 05:14 PM
Is he planning on getting traded first?

Spirit
01-01-2009, 05:16 PM
Obviously, grace. Because this team has no chance of being in the postseason.

Los Angeles
01-01-2009, 05:24 PM
Not true - I'm not saying it's likely, but it is entirely possible we could capture a lower seed, especially when the 8th could have a losing record.

Putnam
01-01-2009, 05:29 PM
this team has no chance of being in the postseason.


The Pacers are 4 games out of the 8th spot with 51 games remaining to play. They have a very good "chance" and many teams have made the NBA playoffs from further back and later in the season than the Pacers are now.

If you wish to express an opinion that they will in fact not make the playoffs, then go ahead. I doubt they will myself. But saying the Pacers have "no chance" is contrary to fact. It suggests you don't know what the word "chance" means.

Maybe I'm just being robotic. But I honestly don't see the sense in saying things that are patently, demonstrably false. Colin Cowherd makes a living stirring the pot, but none of us on this forum has anything to gain from insincere or inaccurate comments and observations.

count55
01-01-2009, 06:34 PM
The Pacers are 4 games out of the 8th spot with 51 games remaining to play. They have a very good "chance" and many teams have made the NBA playoffs from further back and later in the season than the Pacers are now.

If you wish to express an opinion that they will in fact not make the playoffs, then go ahead. I doubt they will myself. But saying the Pacers have "no chance" is contrary to fact. It suggests you don't know what the word "chance" means.

Maybe I'm just being robotic. But I honestly don't see the sense in saying things that are patently, demonstrably false. Colin Cowherd makes a living stirring the pot, but none of us on this forum has anything to gain from insincere or inaccurate comments and observations. [SIZE=1]

I tried to write a post the other day where I was going to say that the playoffs are a lost cause, but it is difficult to say that while you are only four games out.

It is a very long shot...playing at .500 the rest of the season puts us at 35-36 wins, so it's not like we have to win every game. Granted, .500 ball seems a long way off when you're 10-21, but it's not impossible.

Besides, what exact attitude do we want the players to have?

EDIT: The Playoffs are a lost cause if we continue to play the way we have, and I am not expecting us to make it, but there are still a lot of games to be played.

LoneGranger33
01-01-2009, 07:19 PM
Any other year at 10-21, I'd think we were toast, but I'm told we have a tough early schedule and I like the fact that other teams haven't put much distance between themselves and us. If Dunleavy's return is the god-send many people are making it out to be, then we might just have a chance at 8. As long as we don't draft Blake Griffin, I'm okay.

Anthem
01-01-2009, 07:42 PM
Any other year at 10-21, I'd think we were toast, but I'm told we have a tough early schedule and I like the fact that other teams haven't put much distance between themselves and us. If Dunleavy's return is the god-send many people are making it out to be, then we might just have a chance at 8.
Yeah, we're actually not far behind where I figured we'd be. Some folks expected us to be .500 by the new year, but I thought they were nuts. I figured we'd be maybe 3 or 4 games ahead of where we are, which partly explains why I've been less upset than some others about our poor showings.

ChicagoJ
01-01-2009, 08:29 PM
Is he planning on getting traded first?

Drats. Beat me to it!

vnzla81
01-01-2009, 08:38 PM
playoffs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3-eavMSBnk


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Naptown_Seth
01-01-2009, 09:35 PM
I'll be the negative guy here then. The problem is that you might yet have to get to .500 to make the playoffs, not just play .500 from here on out. And the other problem is that the "hard schedule" has eased up and they are still struggling.

Say what you will about Dun being out, or the illnesses, but the issue now is that you just lost several critical chances to get wins and are eventually going to return to some remaining tough schedule runs. On top of that there is no reason to think that other guys (Jeff, Rasho come to mind) won't be hitting some injury skids themselves down the line. There is no rule that injuries are limited to X number of lost games or that anything that's happened so far must be countered by good luck in the future.

I'm not saying guys will get injured or that they will lose games, I'm just saying that you can't view it as "they are due for some good luck/change". The reality is you have a .333 caliber team that might improve. Can that improvement be all the way up to .500 ball, especially coming off so many tough losses already?

Seems tough.

I didn't realize it's the worst Jan 1 start to a season since the end of the 80's. Brutal.


Now of course if you don't keep your mind on making the playoffs you definitely won't make it, so I'm all for TJ keeping the positive view. Hopefully he and Jeff and some of the other positive guys can spread this through the locker room and keep the kids on track.

Not only are the rooks/McBob learning how to play, they are also learning how to handle this kind of adversity. Reggie and Rik went through the same thing.

BRushWithDeath
01-01-2009, 09:56 PM
Walking out of the Pepsi Coliseum I was having a conversation with my dad about how the team would do. I said the over/under on wins was 30. I think that'll be about right. And no, that won't be close to the playoffs. There's no chance.

Anthem
01-01-2009, 10:24 PM
I doubt you'll need to get to .500 to reach the playoffs.

BRushWithDeath
01-01-2009, 10:28 PM
I doubt you'll need to get to .500 to reach the playoffs.

But you will have to be close. And the Pacers won't be.

MillerTime
01-02-2009, 12:30 AM
But you will have to be close. And the Pacers won't be.

a 38 or 39 winning team will get into the 8th spot in the East

Peck
01-02-2009, 01:16 AM
The Pacers are 4 games out of the 8th spot with 51 games remaining to play. They have a very good "chance" and many teams have made the NBA playoffs from further back and later in the season than the Pacers are now.

If you wish to express an opinion that they will in fact not make the playoffs, then go ahead. I doubt they will myself. But saying the Pacers have "no chance" is contrary to fact. It suggests you don't know what the word "chance" means.

Maybe I'm just being robotic. But I honestly don't see the sense in saying things that are patently, demonstrably false. Colin Cowherd makes a living stirring the pot, but none of us on this forum has anything to gain from insincere or inaccurate comments and observations.






It has always been an unwritten understanding that whenever anyone posts anything on the board, unless they are actually quoting someone, that what they are saying is thier own opinion.

There really has never been the need to put a disclaimer at the bottom stating otherwise.

Obviously the team has an actual chance. Until they are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs they have a chance. However with the current state of the team I do not see it as to much of a stretch for someone to write them off for the year (right or wrong is not the point) and wish to express that feeling on here.

That is why we don't pull or rebuke people after every win or loss for hyperbole about certain players, coach's, managers, etc.

BRushWithDeath
01-02-2009, 01:22 AM
a 38 or 39 winning team will get into the 8th spot in the East

39 wins is two games from .500. Which is close. And the Pacers won't be close.

Pacersfan46
01-02-2009, 03:00 AM
Wow, so many people here can tell the future. They need to work with the government to snuff out all the terrorist activities. That's an amazing talent.

-- Steve --

31andonly
01-02-2009, 08:27 AM
Author: Star Staff
Website: Indystar.com
http://www.indystar.com/article/20090101/NEWS/901010400


What else should he have said when being asked by someone from the local newspaper?



However, we've had a brutal schedule, some injuries and diseases, a whole new team and our primary scorer from last season has yet to play a game!

Yes, considering the circumstances, I think we're doing pretty well and the playoffs are not out of reach!

Go Pacers! :dance:

Bball
01-02-2009, 10:12 AM
All of this talk about the record needed to make the playoffs is of course pure speculation. If, as Putnam says, we're only 4 games out right now, then we don't magically have to start winning at a nice clip above .500 to get back to the overall record around .500. We just need to maintain contact and make up those 4 games.

Of course I'm not predicting we can do that but the mountain doesn't look quite as high when you consider it's 4 games back we have to make up, not get ourselves to a mythical, projected record that is based on speculation of what it will take to make the playoffs. Considering the amount of losing and close losses we've had to get to this point, and still be only 4 games back, it's not like we've buried ourselves.... yet.

And of course it may in the end work out that way (needing that .500 record), but that means the teams in front will need to pick things up as well. From a psychological standpoint it's certainly not bleak yet for anyone who has dreams of making the playoffs.

4 games back is 4 games back.

Honestly, making the playoffs right now means so little to me I haven't bothered to confirm Putnam's statement on our standing. I'm just looking for individual player and team growth and looking at each w/l. If you're not entering the playoffs with a chance to make some noise then there's little benefit to making the playoffs IMHO. It's always good to get your players some p/o experience but at what price? It's not like the odds are very good that the team's eventual return to the playoffs would lead to the finals that year anyway. So let them get that experience when the team is truly ready to make the playoffs, not backing in during a weak point in the conference's 2nd tier.

deekay85
01-02-2009, 10:32 AM
Author: Star Staff
Website: Indystar.com
http://www.indystar.com/article/20090101/NEWS/901010400

Yeah, and I am the chancellor of germany

Speed
01-02-2009, 10:36 AM
I actually think they have a decent chance to make it. They have played hard and at times very well. I think as you get closer to the end of the year and other teams stop caring this group will continue to play hard. That coupled with the really really nice last 14 games on the schedule (10 of 14 at home), I think they have a shot. During that same stretch the away games are Charlotte, Chicago, Oklahoma City, and Atlanta. All winnable games, really. Now there are some tough homes games too, but you should still have a good chance against good teams at home.

Denari was on 1070 on Wednesday and made the observation that if they had won the last 3 what a difference that would have made in the record. Of course he's the biggest PR guy out there, but think about it. They'd be 13-18 at that point with some momentum. It didn't happen, but let's say they put a 5 game win streak together sometime next month. That would be enough to put you right there in the mix. It's not impossible by the way they have played.

All I'm saying is there is a bunch of basketball left and they aren't that far off in games behind the 8th spot, but more importantly how they've competed.

I've said this before, if you can keep close or get close by those last 14 games starting March 18th, you can make a run at the post season.

Lastly, if you get guys healthy and not just Dunleavy, but the rest of the team. Get Roy and B Rush through the rookie wall. You have a team that can beat anyone on a giving night in March.

I'm optimistic either way (just don't ask me the last 4 minutes of a game) if you make it, it's great experiency and something to build on for next year. I you don't, it's a decent pick and the season has been something to build on for next year. By the way, save all of the Herm Edwards "We can build on this" jokes. :)

Unclebuck
01-02-2009, 10:58 AM
What was The Sixers record last year around this time before they started winning a lot of games. Not suggesting it will happen here, but turnarounds from January 1st are not uncommon.

I have been saying for years that January is the most important month of the regular season - more important than March, Feb or even April. Not sure why but every season a few teams that were terrible in Nov and Dec turn it around in January

duke dynamite
01-02-2009, 11:01 AM
What was The Sixers record last year around this time before they started winning a lot of games. Not suggesting it will happen here, but turnarounds from January 1st are not uncommon.

I have been saying for years that January is the most important month of the regular season - more important than March, Feb or even April. Not sure why but every season a few teams that were terrible in Nov and Dec turn it around in January
I have noticed that as well. We can start to test it tonight.

count55
01-02-2009, 11:10 AM
What was The Sixers record last year around this time before they started winning a lot of games. Not suggesting it will happen here, but turnarounds from January 1st are not uncommon.

I have been saying for years that January is the most important month of the regular season - more important than March, Feb or even April. Not sure why but every season a few teams that were terrible in Nov and Dec turn it around in January

Well, Philly was 14-17 entering January, then went 4-11 that month, before finishing the season 22-12 over the last three months to make the playoffs.

Justin Tyme
01-02-2009, 12:37 PM
I not saying the Pacers can or can't make the playoffs, but how they are presently playing isn't going to get them in the playoffs. Many feel they will which makes me wonder really how sure they are. Would they really feel that way enough to venture betting $1,000 on it? I truly doubt it. It's easy to be a fan and make a comment like they do, but it's another to really back those statements up with one's hard earned cash. It's being a fan with optimism, maybe a little misplaced in that regards. There isn't anything wrong with a optimistic fan, b/c I thought the Pacers would win 41 games. I, apparently, drank too much of the offseason trade Kool-aide. Realism says it would be extremely difficult and not highly likely the Pacers could make the playoffs. This is why I don't agree that the Pacers can do it. I'd rather, as someone else stated, use the rest of the year to develop players for the future in a system that can bring rewards next season.

I'm a believer that teams that make the playoffs should be teams with records of .500 or above. I don't like seeing teams playing in the playoffs with losing records. To me it's rewarding losing. That's JMO.

Unclebuck
01-02-2009, 12:54 PM
Well, Philly was 14-17 entering January, then went 4-11 that month, before finishing the season 22-12 over the last three months to make the playoffs.

OK, so they were 17-28. That is within reach for sure.


Looking at the schedule - if the Pacers don't win the next two games - it will get very ugly. 5 game road trip - I only see 1 win, then home to the Pistons and then at N.O and at SAS. So they could be buried in the next two weeks

deekay85
01-02-2009, 03:37 PM
yeah, the road trip is crazy. i also see just one win.

but another question: allright, we'll get into the po and then? We get killed by the celtics in 4 games. And I dont want to hear all this hawks comparisons. we arent hawks, allright!

if we (obie) dont fix the problem with the D and maybe add one post defender, i dont see any chances to make the po's.

We can play solide (not great) but solid defense. we saw it at the beginning of the season. i dont understand whats wrong with this team.

Perimeter D is bad. Post D is very very bad. Front office has to fix it!!!

p.s.

sorry for my bad english, guys

Speed
01-02-2009, 04:02 PM
yeah, the road trip is crazy. i also see just one win.

but another question: allright, we'll get into the po and then? We get killed by the celtics in 4 games. And I dont want to hear all this hawks comparisons. we arent hawks, allright!

if we (obie) dont fix the problem with the D and maybe add one post defender, i dont see any chances to make the po's.

We can play solide (not great) but solid defense. we saw it at the beginning of the season. i dont understand whats wrong with this team.

Perimeter D is bad. Post D is very very bad. Front office has to fix it!!!

p.s.

sorry for my bad english, guys

Two schools of thought.

-The experience is very very valuable to be in the playoffs period. I'd love to see Granger get a taste.

-making the playoffs kills your chances to get a top notch difference maker player in the draft.

The thing is I don't know either way, that making the playoffs or not, solves those problems very readily.

Unclebuck
01-02-2009, 04:11 PM
I was just looking through some team stats, and the Pacers are the third best defensive rebounding team in the NBA - only the Spurs and Magic are better. I consider that to be a very important stat.

And the Pacers are shooting just a tick under 80% as a team from the FT line - very impressive - that is good enough for 5th best - which means FT shooting across the league is way up this year - 4 teams shooting over 80% - who says players can't shoot the ball anymore

Pacers are 3rd in the NBA in assists - behind only the Lakers and Utah (I suppose JOB gets no credit for this, but Sloan and Phil jackson get credit for their teams passing)

Naptown_Seth
01-03-2009, 04:51 AM
All of this talk about the record needed to make the playoffs is of course pure speculation. If, as Putnam says, we're only 4 games out right now, then we don't magically have to start winning at a nice clip above .500 to get back to the overall record around .500. We just need to maintain contact and make up those 4 games.
The problem is that you have a trajectory too. The Pacers don't have to play worse to go on to 6-7 games behind.

The fact is that by around 35 games you typically have 6 of your playoff teams already in place. The other 2 spots are either highly contested or 1-2 teams just tank right out of it.

The Pacers aren't contesting so that means you are looking for a team to fall apart, or actually several.

See, where you see only 4 games out I see ALREADY 4 games out. This early in the year that's a lot. I mean there just aren't that many games for a team to be more than 4 out of the 8th seed.

A .600 team is MUCH better than a .400 team, but after just 20 games they are ONLY 4 games ahead. So close. There are only 8 sets of 10 games (basically) so you are only going to see a 16 games behind margin between teams drastically different, and at 30 games that's only going to be 6.

Then you go back to the .500 thing for 8th and you should be 4 games out of 8th after 40 if you are on pace to be one of the worst teams in the league.

Even in baseball it's really tough to make up 4-5 games in only 30.

This is why I prefer to look at what it would take to get your own record close to the projected level to make the playoffs, and if that requires an improvement in the winning PCT of something like +.300 I get really doubtful. Teams just don't typically do this.


On the flipside it means that if they do make the playoffs it will be a remarkable turnaround and quite the feel good story. I don't get why people get mad to hear people basically point out that the team is in a tough spot and hasn't played well so far since this is the reality even if it goes unsaid.

If you believe they will make the playoffs then me saying I don't think they will has no bearing on that. My only peeve with people saying they are right in it is that it's simply not true. That's not the same as saying they can make the playoffs. One is not a fact and the other is just an optimistic opinion.

Naptown_Seth
01-03-2009, 04:59 AM
Another view - the Pacers will have to outplay FIVE OTHER TEAMS in order to just make the 8th seed. All of those teams are ahead of them by at least 1.5 games already. And a big reason NJ is under .500 - no Devon Harris in two losses to the Pacers.

That's another issue, not only do the Pacers have to get hot, they also need to hope that none of those other 5 get hot too.


And has anyone looked at the JAN schedule? This is going to get worse before it gets better. If JOB can hold them together and keep spirits up enough to make a real rally in FEB I'll be impressed. They could be looking at needing something like a 14-2 run just to get back into the hunt.

Putnam
01-03-2009, 09:09 AM
Stuff happens.

The point is not that any of us thinks it will happen or won't happen. the point is that none of us knows what will happen.

The Colts were 3-4. They finished the season 12-4.

It would be amazing for the Pacers to get into the playoffs, but the NBA is where amazing happens. (I can't believe I said that!) I don't think they will, but I know that I don't know they won't. And neither does anyone else.

JayRedd
01-03-2009, 10:06 AM
(I can't believe I said that!)

I can't believe you just wrote a parenthetical exclamation.