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jeffg-body
12-21-2008, 11:09 PM
Has anyone else been a little interested in the Mayan long count and the end of the world predictions circling around 12/21/2012. It seems weird to me that several civilizations have predicted something big to happen in that time era. The wife says I am a bit paranoid on this issue. What does everyone think on this?:deadhorse

Stryder
12-21-2008, 11:15 PM
Meh...the world ends when it ends...there is no sense in worrying about it.

N8R
12-21-2008, 11:19 PM
Ditto. Just do all the bad things you ever wanted to do and by 2012 there will be no repercussions cause the world will be gone.

GO!!!!!
12-21-2008, 11:40 PM
Blame it on the Martians..

I share some of your thoughts but concerned I am Not, i'll still be paying tax's till then and if they are wrong after then, thats worse to me... Aslong as I go peacefully, the rest of ya'll can go up in a firey blaze, part from the ones I truly care about and of course TCT, that must allways remain sacred...

Just kidding, it is intresting but to be honest that's 3 Years away, I wanna get married and maybe divorced before then...

If you have some more infomation to post, that would be helpfull

What did the Mayan long count evolve in to or was it just abanded...

Hicks
12-22-2008, 12:16 AM
The world's been predicted to end multiple times already on dates that have come and gone. While I find the Mayan thing mildly interesting, I'm not exactly going to start rushing through a bucket list come 2011.

duke dynamite
12-22-2008, 12:19 AM
I'd hate to, but this thread has to be put on my ignore list. Nothing against any of you, just too morbid for me ATM...

Trader Joe
12-22-2008, 01:11 AM
Most scholars believe that the mayan calendar functions on cycles, so they were not predicting the end of the world in a physical sense, but rather the end of this current cycle on their calendar and the beginning of a new cycle. I hope this puts your mind at ease. I have done an a lot of research on the issue over the past year, and I feel pretty strongly that this is what the mayans meant.
PS I'm no scholar, but trust me that alot of them agree with this.

Suaveness
12-22-2008, 03:17 AM
Screw this, if the world is going to end in 2012, I shouldn't bother getting into $200K debt from grad school. 4 year vacation, here I come!

Dab
12-22-2008, 11:27 AM
The Mayans never said the world was ending.

Still, it can be fun to wrap your head around Terence McKenna's Novelty Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novelty_theory)

Hicks
12-22-2008, 12:14 PM
Most scholars believe that the mayan calendar functions on cycles, so they were not predicting the end of the world in a physical sense, but rather the end of this current cycle on their calendar and the beginning of a new cycle. I hope this puts your mind at ease. I have done an a lot of research on the issue over the past year, and I feel pretty strongly that this is what the mayans meant.
PS I'm no scholar, but trust me that alot of them agree with this.

So how long was the cycle that's ending in 2012? Thousands of years? A multi-thousand year cycle?

Major Cold
12-22-2008, 12:26 PM
No one knows the time, nor date.

Y2K anybody?

Shade
12-22-2008, 02:43 PM
I think it would be kind of cool to witness the end of the world. I mean, it has to end sometime, right? What better way to go than to be there at the very end?

duke dynamite
12-22-2008, 02:52 PM
I think it would be kind of cool to witness the end of the world. I mean, it has to end sometime, right? What better way to go than to be there at the very end?
Yeah, but who is going to live to tell?

"I witnessed the end of the world!"

count55
12-22-2008, 03:03 PM
They couldn't have arranged for it to end on 12/21/2008?

Because on 12/22/2008, I woke up to a 49-degree house and a car whose driver side window fell out of it. Now, I'm out $10,000 for the freakin' heat pump and TBD on the car.

count55
12-22-2008, 03:40 PM
They couldn't have arranged for it to end on 12/21/2008?

Because on 12/22/2008, I woke up to a 49-degree house and a car whose driver side window fell out of it. Now, I'm out $10,000 for the freakin' heat pump and TBD on the car.

Well, apparently, TBD on this frigid Monday before Christmas is....

$1,300.

Yip-****ing-eee!

duke dynamite
12-22-2008, 03:57 PM
Sorry to hear that.

Trader Joe
12-22-2008, 04:11 PM
So how long was the cycle that's ending in 2012? Thousands of years? A multi-thousand year cycle?

See post below.

ajbry
12-22-2008, 04:14 PM
Isn't there supposed to be some sort of incredibly rare alignment of planets and such (or maybe not, but I don't know what exactly is lining up) and it'll cause some sort of catastrophe on Earth?

My succinct, easy to interpret question aside, I am intrigued by 12/21/12...

Trader Joe
12-22-2008, 04:34 PM
I need to do some more research, but I'm also pretty sure this isn't the first time the Mayan calendar predicted the world would "end".

Here ya go,


"For the ancient Maya, it was a huge celebration to make it to the end of a whole cycle," says Sandra Noble, executive director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Foundation_for_the_Advancement_of_ Mesoamerican_Studies,_Inc.&action=edit&redlink=1) in Crystal River, Florida (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_River,_Florida). To render December 21, 2012, as a doomsday or moment of cosmic shifting, she says, is "a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in." <sup id="cite_ref-USAToday_12-1" class="reference">[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayan_Calendar#cite_note-USAToday-12)</sup>
Since Calendar Round dates can only distinguish in 18,980 days, equivalent to around 52 solar years, the cycle repeats roughly once each lifetime, and thus, a more refined method of dating was needed if history was to be recorded accurately. To measure dates, therefore, over periods longer than 52 years, Mesoamericans devised the Long Count calendar.
The Maya name for a day was k'in. Twenty of these k'ins are known as a winal or uinal. Eighteen winals make one tun. Twenty tuns are known as a k'atun. Twenty k'atuns make a b'ak'tun.
The Long Count calendar identifies a date by counting the number of days from August 11, 3114 BCE in the proleptic Gregorian calendar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proleptic_Gregorian_calendar) or September 6 in the Julian calendar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar). But instead of using a base-10 (decimal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal)) scheme like Western numbering, the Long Count days were tallied in a modified base-20 scheme. Thus 0.0.0.1.5 is equal to 25, and 0.0.0.2.0 is equal to 40. As the winal unit resets after only counting to 18, the Long Count consistently uses base-20 only if the tun is considered the primary unit of measurement, not the k'in; with the k'in and winal units being the number of days in the tun. The Long Count 0.0.1.0.0 represents 360 days, rather than the 400 in a purely base-20 (vigesimal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigesimal)) count.
<center> <table class="wikitable"> <caption>Table of Long Count units</caption> <tbody><tr> <th>Days</th> <th>Long Count period</th> <th>Long Count period</th> <th>Approx solar years</th> </tr> <tr> <td>1</td> <td>= 1 K'in</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>20</td> <td>= 20 K'in</td> <td>= 1 Winal</td> <td>1/18th</td> </tr> <tr> <td>360</td> <td>= 18 Winal</td> <td>= 1 Tun</td> <td>1</td> </tr> <tr> <td>7,200</td> <td>= 20 Tun</td> <td>= 1 K'atun</td> <td>20</td> </tr> <tr> <td>144,000</td> <td>= 20 K'atun</td> <td>= 1 B'ak'tun</td> <td>395</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </center> There are also four rarely-used higher-order cycles: piktun, kalabtun, k'inchiltun, and alautun.
Since the Long Count dates are unambiguous, the Long Count was particularly well suited to use on monuments. The monumental inscriptions would not only include the 5 digits of the Long Count, but would also include the two tzolk'in characters followed by the two haab' characters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayan_Calendar

So basically, every 400 years the calendar resets.

That is all it means.

Trader Joe
12-22-2008, 04:41 PM
Isn't there supposed to be some sort of incredibly rare alignment of planets and such (or maybe not, but I don't know what exactly is lining up) and it'll cause some sort of catastrophe on Earth?

My succinct, easy to interpret question aside, I am intrigued by 12/21/12...

I think you've maybe watched a few too many apocalypse movies lol.

Kuq_e_Zi91
12-22-2008, 05:26 PM
I think you've maybe watched a few too many apocalypse movies lol.

No I heard about this alignment too. Supposedly, there's a planet out there, Planet "X" and scientists have already spotted it. In 2012 it will be the closest it's ever been to Earth in a really long time(not sure exactly how long). I think it has something to do with the polar shifts.

There's a ton of theories out there... Nibiru is one of them.

Another theory is that it might just be a spiritual enlightening.

Then again, nothing could happen and a whole bunch of people make a lot of money.

ajbry
12-22-2008, 07:05 PM
No I heard about this alignment too. Supposedly, there's a planet out there, Planet "X" and scientists have already spotted it. In 2012 it will be the closest it's ever been to Earth in a really long time(not sure exactly how long). I think it has something to do with the polar shifts.

There's a ton of theories out there... Nibiru is one of them.

Another theory is that it might just be a spiritual enlightening.

Then again, nothing could happen and a whole bunch of people make a lot of money.

Polar shifts definitely rings a bell, thanks for the info. That's definitely what I was trying to explain but you did it a lot better.

Putnam
12-22-2008, 07:13 PM
Indy gives a good answer to this. here is another.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2283/does-the-mayan-calendar-predict-the-end-of-the-world-in-2012


One of the perks of traveling by car is getting to see the odometer turn over. For whatever reason, people tend to be mildly fascinated by the sight of a string of nines giving way to a string of zeros. No one thinks it's the end of the world, or even the end of the car; they just like to be there when it happens.

The same fascination extends to calendars, only amplified considerably and (at least for some) with a little bit of apocalyptic terror added in. Remember all the dire predictions that got tossed around during the run-up to 2000? Well, the whole the-Mayans-said-the-world-will-end-in-2012 thing is basically just Y2K fever, ancient Mesoamerican style.

The Mayans developed a sophisticated system of mathematics, as primitive civilizations go – they worked mainly in base 20, and they understood the concept of zero. Though they seem to have taken great interest in what they saw as the cyclical nature of the universe and displayed considerable skill in recording the motion of the moon, planets, and stars, their method of reckoning time was tied neither to lunar cycles nor to seasonal cycles; in fact, it's synchronized only approximately with the solar year. They were apparently aware of the resulting discrepancy but, as far as we know, didn't try to adjust for it, as most ancient Mediterranean civilizations did.

Their calendar system fell out of use after the Spanish invaded in the 1500s, and it's only fairly recently, in the 1990s, that archaeologists have reconstructed it. Though there's still some disagreement among the experts over the details, at this point we believe that the Mayans actually had three distinct calendars:

The Tzolkin calendar, for religious or ceremonial use. It was divided into 20 periods of 13 days each, which obviously falls well shy of a solar year.
The Haab calendar, for civil use. A year consisted of 18 periods of 20 days each plus 5 extra days of prayer at the end for a total of 365. Still a bit short (that's why we've got leap years), but not too far off.
Finally, the so-called Long Count calendar. No accuracy issue here: this one just counted the number of days from a start date. Mind you, the counting was done in a hybrid of base 20 and base 18, but once you got past that it was pretty simple.
Now, we don't know for sure when the start date for the Long Count was. Most Mayan-ologists believe it was August 13, 3114 BC; the other serious contenders are August 11 of the same year and October 15, 3374 BC. (All dates have been converted to their Gregorian equivalents.)

Whichever one it is, why that date? No one knows. All three possibilities are at least 1,200 years earlier than the earliest evidence of Mayan civilization, and probably at least 3,000 years prior to the development of the Mayan calendrical system. What we do know (we think) is that the five-part format they used for counting the days thereafter wasn't open-ended but maxed out at 1.872 million days. So, as we think we understand it, and assuming that the start date was one of those two days in August 3114 BC, then the Long Count will reach this maximum value on December 21 or 23, 2012.

And that's where the apocalyptic talk comes from: the notion that the Long Count is designed to stop counting on a particular day and is thus an implicit prediction of the end of the world. But remember: the Mayans saw the universe as running in cycles – diurnal, lunar, seasonal, solar. It makes sense, then, that the Long Count, like many early calendars, would be cyclic too. It happens to have a very, very long cycle, but it's apparently cyclic nonetheless.

(For another example of a cyclic calendar, think of the traditional Chinese system, familiar as a motif on old-school Chinese-restaurant place mats, in which each year is named for one of 12 animals: rat, ox, tiger, etc. When the last year in the sequence, the year of the pig, comes to an end, the whole thing doesn't grind to a halt – it just starts over with another year of the rat.)

So when the Long Count calendar hits its limit on the 23rd (or 21st) of December four years from now, will that be it – the end of everything? There's no reason to think so, or to think the Mayans thought so. Just picture a very large and complex odometer flipping over to a long line of zeros and continuing on from there.

jeffg-body
01-08-2009, 12:08 AM
My curiosity sparked when I read that the I Ching, Merlin's Scrolls, Sue Indian Prophecies, Mayan Long Count, Nostradamus and the Web Bot (the computer that supposedly predicted the twin towers falling, the sunami, and hurricane Katrina) all predict a major catastrophic event on that same date.

It is probably all crap, but it is weird that 7 different people from different times and places in the world would come up with the same predictions.