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indygeezer
06-21-2004, 05:45 PM
I'm just throwing this out there...not saying I buy it...

"Recenty, several rumors have emerged speculating that Orlando Magic guard Tracy McGrady will be heading to Houston in exchange for Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley, and Kelvin Cato.

However, several league sources are now confirming Orlando and Indiana are in the final stages of a blockbuster deal that will send McGrady to the Pacers in exchange for Ron Artest, Al Harrington, Fred Jones, and a future draft pick." - NBA Inside Source Thomas Whitley

Kegboy
06-21-2004, 05:47 PM
NBA Inside Source Thomas Whitley

Uh, who?? :unimpressed:

bulletproof
06-21-2004, 05:48 PM
I'm just throwing this out there...not saying I buy it...

"Recenty, several rumors have emerged speculating that Orlando Magic guard Tracy McGrady will be heading to Houston in exchange for Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley, and Kelvin Cato.

However, several league sources are now confirming Orlando and Indiana are in the final stages of a blockbuster deal that will send McGrady to the Pacers in exchange for Ron Artest, Al Harrington, Fred Jones, and a future draft pick." - NBA Inside Source Thomas Whitley

Ouch.

indygeezer
06-21-2004, 05:49 PM
Now remember BP...don't beleive everything you read. (no wink smilie to these Quick Reply spots)

Roaming Gnome
06-21-2004, 05:50 PM
:irked: seems like we are getting reamed, if true! :shout:

indygeezer
06-21-2004, 05:50 PM
NBA Inside Source Thomas Whitley

Uh, who?? :unimpressed:



I dunno????? :unimpressed:

Hicks
06-21-2004, 05:51 PM
Interesting. Guess we'll find out. :)

Al and Ron, huh? Dunno, but if Ron was gone anyway, better he help seal the deal for McGrady than just give him up for a Bonzi Wells or a James Posey.

Kegboy
06-21-2004, 05:52 PM
http://www.pacersdigest.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4342&start=0


Please tell me none of you are taking this article as such gospal as to assume that's how it will happen if it does, because that's :bs:

No, but it points to the fact that Orlando asking price is way to high. If this is their opening offer, it tells me they expect something like Ron + Al/JB + Freddie (I expect they think we'll counter with Freddie when Jamaal's name comes up, along with agreeing to either Al or Johnny.)


Not saying this is gonna happen, but if it does, I had to get in my itoldyouso. ;)

Spicoli
06-21-2004, 05:56 PM
Any capologist know if Ron + Al + Fred + Future draft pick for McGrady works straight-up cap-wise? Or would there need to be further tweaking?

Hicks
06-21-2004, 05:56 PM
Again, this is all grain of salt level stuff, but if this is how it worked out, ourlineup:

Tinsley / Johnson
McGrady / Miller
Bender / James Jones or a FA
O'Neal / Croshere
Foster / Pollard or Primoz

Uhh, yes please.

TheSauceMaster
06-21-2004, 05:57 PM
Well some sources are saying the MAgic are wanting Tmac gone by Draft Day , so if that's true then we have a short way to wait to end all this hype :laugh:

Hicks
06-21-2004, 05:57 PM
Any capologist know if Ron + Al + Fred + Future draft pick for McGrady works straight-up cap-wise? Or would there need to be further tweaking?

If not it's very close, easily tweakable.

Will Galen
06-21-2004, 05:59 PM
Now remember BP...don't beleive everything you read. (no wink smilie to these Quick Reply spots)

:rotflmao:

Hicks
06-21-2004, 06:00 PM
I just checked it out on RealGM. It won't work right now as stated because of Ron's BYC, but once that wears off in a couple weeks it does work.

If they were to iron this out in the next couple days, they could announce it on draft night, and it would become official in July.

bulletproof
06-21-2004, 06:00 PM
Now remember BP...don't beleive everything you read. (no wink smilie to these Quick Reply spots)

I almost prefaced my "ouch" with "If this happens..." but didn't feel it was necessary. :mad: ;)

Roaming Gnome
06-21-2004, 06:01 PM
If this rumor is true:

I just wonder if Houston is not offering Francis, Mobley and Cato? This just seems like a lot to give up for T-mac, and Orlando would have to be foolish not to just say "SOLD". Maybe that isn't the deal offered by Houston. 1 superstar, one tier-2 guy and 1 decent center seem awful high for T-mac. That is why I have my doubts that is what Houston offered, If this is true!!!

Will Galen
06-21-2004, 06:01 PM
Well some sources are saying the MAgic are wanting Tmac gone by Draft Day , so if that's true then we have a short way to wait to end all this hype :laugh:


I read that too, goody, goody,goody!

TheSauceMaster
06-21-2004, 06:03 PM
acutally I think Ron + Al + Fred would work alone without a draft pick , so if you wanted to sweeten the deal throw in a draft pick.

able
06-21-2004, 06:04 PM
LOL well realgm is overloaded so more people read this :)

and indygeezer; just type ; and ) to make ;)

:blush:

able
06-21-2004, 06:05 PM
acutally I think Ron + Al + Fred would work alone without a draft pick , so if you wanted to sweeten the deal throw in a draft pick.

I remember last time i looked it did not work, Al and JB did, but they are both making more then Ron, so i presume Fred is needed (or a simular contract)

indygeezer
06-21-2004, 06:07 PM
And Able comes thru again :) but this time I knew that.



ANd personally, I think this report is total BS. You hear EVERYTHING leading up to the draft.

able
06-21-2004, 06:09 PM
Indiana trades: SF Ron Artest (18.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 3.7 apg in 37.2 minutes)
PF Al Harrington (13.3 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 30.9 minutes)
Indiana receives: SG Tracy McGrady (28.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 5.5 apg in 39.9 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -3.6 ppg, -5.7 rpg, and +0.1 apg.

Orlando trades: SG Tracy McGrady (28.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 5.5 apg in 39.9 minutes)
Orlando receives: SF Ron Artest (18.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 3.7 apg in 73 games)
PF Al Harrington (13.3 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 79 games)
Change in team outlook: +3.6 ppg, +5.7 rpg, and -0.1 apg.

TRADE DECLINED



Al Harrington 18.9
Ron Artest 18.1

Tracy McGrady 44.0

Fred Jones 5.0

mat shows you need Fred as filler, no one else in that range

TheSauceMaster
06-21-2004, 06:10 PM
It's Declined cause Ron Has a BYC

You could also use AL and Bender and it would be Declined because of BYC

Will Galen
06-21-2004, 06:13 PM
However, several league sources are now confirming Orlando and Indiana are in the final stages of a blockbuster deal that will send McGrady to the Pacers in exchange for Ron Artest, Al Harrington, Fred Jones, and a future draft pick." - NBA Inside Source Thomas Whitley

Okay, this paragraph gave me an idea. Assuming the above is the deal of course, why wouldn't the Pacers give up this year's #29 pick?

I have two thoughts on that. One, the Magic think any pick in subsequent years will be better.

Two, the Pacer's have a prospect they like for #29.

Spicoli
06-21-2004, 06:14 PM
Here's another post from the ESPN boards (which, in itself, is really sad . . . but, hey, apparently geezer and I are bored).

Detroit board (http://boards.espn.go.com/cgi/nba/request.dll?MESSAGE&room=nba_det&id=373915&move=firstThread)

Jim Gray just reported on SC that this trade will go down:

TO Houston: T-Mac & J.Howard

TO Orlando: Francis, Mobely, Cato

The only way it doesn't happen is if Juwon is taken in the expansion draft.

canyoufeelit
06-21-2004, 06:14 PM
I heard just the opposite, T-Mac to Houston is supposedly a done deal. WTF is going on?

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?topic=64724&forum=1&14

Edit: Jim Gray and Dan Patrick were discussing T-Mac to Houston on Sportscenter about 5 minutes ago

Spicoli
06-21-2004, 06:15 PM
However, several league sources are now confirming Orlando and Indiana are in the final stages of a blockbuster deal that will send McGrady to the Pacers in exchange for Ron Artest, Al Harrington, Fred Jones, and a future draft pick." - NBA Inside Source Thomas Whitley

Okay, this paragraph gave me an idea. Assuming the above is the deal of course, why wouldn't the Pacers give up this year's #29 pick?

I have two thoughts on that. One, the Magic think any pick in subsequent years will be better.

Two, the Pacer's have a prospect they like for #29.


Probably a future pick because you can't really get a worse pick than #29...

TheSauceMaster
06-21-2004, 06:18 PM
I heard just the opposite, T-Mac to Houston is supposedly a done deal. WTF is going on?

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?topic=64724&forum=1&14

Edit: Jim Gray and Dan Patrick were discussing T-Mac to Houston on Sportscenter about 5 minutes ago

Suposededly this is being reported on Sports center and ESPN news ? I dunno gonna turn on TV now

canyoufeelit
06-21-2004, 06:20 PM
Jim Gray said the deal is Francis, Mobley, and Cato for Howard and T-Mac. The only wrinkles in the deal are apparently Francis don't like the trade and that Howard can be taken by the Bobcats.

Hicks
06-21-2004, 06:23 PM
The thing that makes me doubt the Houston talk is this:

Everyone keeps saying Francis, Cato, and Mobley for McGrady and Howard.

Well, salary wise, Francis and Cato for McGrady and Howard match up almost exactly.

But then they're also saying Mobley, which is a moderately big contract in its own right. His inclusion keeps the salaries from matching at all.

canyoufeelit
06-21-2004, 06:26 PM
The thing that makes me doubt the Houston talk is this:

Everyone keeps saying Francis, Cato, and Mobley for McGrady and Howard.

Well, salary wise, Francis and Cato for McGrady and Howard match up almost exactly.

But then they're also saying Mobley, which is a moderately big contract in its own right. His inclusion keeps the salaries from matching at all.

the only names he mentioned were McGrady, Howard, Francis, Mobley, and Cato. There must be some kind of filler to make salaries match up..but he didn't report the exact details

Will Galen
06-21-2004, 06:26 PM
The thing that makes me doubt the Houston talk is this:

Everyone keeps saying Francis, Cato, and Mobley for McGrady and Howard.

Well, salary wise, Francis and Cato for McGrady and Howard match up almost exactly.

But then they're also saying Mobley, which is a moderately big contract in its own right. His inclusion keeps the salaries from matching at all.

Facts have never stopped ESPN.

Hicks
06-21-2004, 06:28 PM
The thing that makes me doubt the Houston talk is this:

Everyone keeps saying Francis, Cato, and Mobley for McGrady and Howard.

Well, salary wise, Francis and Cato for McGrady and Howard match up almost exactly.

But then they're also saying Mobley, which is a moderately big contract in its own right. His inclusion keeps the salaries from matching at all.

the only names he mentioned were McGrady, Howard, Francis, Mobley, and Cato. There must be some kind of filler to make salaries match up..but he didn't report the exact details

Yeah, but there's no obvious way to use fillers to make it work. Magic don't have any bigger contracts to throw to Houston (except Hill, who a) the won't trade and b) even if they were willing to, his is TOO big and would tip the balance off in the other direction), and that only leaves Houston NOT including Mobley, which would mean Orlando is essentially throwing T-Mac away for just Francis and Cato, which is a crappy trade for them.

canyoufeelit
06-21-2004, 06:31 PM
I guess we'll just have to find out how things pan out on Thursday, eh?

Hicks
06-21-2004, 06:32 PM
I guess we'll just have to find out how things pan out on Thursday, eh?

Hopefully. The suckiest thing to happen would be if no one gets him until August or September :laugh:

able
06-21-2004, 06:32 PM
don't forget Francis is BYC till July 1st

so they only need a small throw in then

TheSauceMaster
06-21-2004, 06:40 PM
I guess we'll just have to find out how things pan out on Thursday, eh?

actually this deal is supposed to go down tommorow according to sources

"reportedly the deal will take place now after Tuesday's expansion draft."

So maybe that guy that posted his girlfirend was a secretary fo the rockets and said it would go down tuesday wasn't such a troll or a lair after all , if it happens tommorow :laugh:

Hicks
06-21-2004, 06:42 PM
don't forget Francis is BYC till July 1st

so they only need a small throw in then

That just throws in another wrench, but what I said is the bigger problem I think.

Francis + Cato = McGrady + Howard

But the rumor/story from all over is Francis + Cato + Mobley for McGrady + Howard, and that's too much by Mobley's contract.

Orlando has nothing to balance that out without throwing in most of their roster.

Houston could take Mobley out, but then it's a total suck deal talent-wise for Orlando.

Will Galen
06-21-2004, 06:42 PM
The thing that makes me doubt the Houston talk is this:

Everyone keeps saying Francis, Cato, and Mobley for McGrady and Howard.

Well, salary wise, Francis and Cato for McGrady and Howard match up almost exactly.

But then they're also saying Mobley, which is a moderately big contract in its own right. His inclusion keeps the salaries from matching at all.

the only names he mentioned were McGrady, Howard, Francis, Mobley, and Cato. There must be some kind of filler to make salaries match up..but he didn't report the exact details

Yeah, but there's no obvious way to use fillers to make it work. Magic don't have any bigger contracts to throw to Houston (except Hill, who a) the won't trade and b) even if they were willing to, his is TOO big and would tip the balance off in the other direction), and that only leaves Houston NOT including Mobley, which would mean Orlando is essentially throwing T-Mac away for just Francis and Cato, which is a crappy trade for them.

The Magic could throw in Decercq and it would work on July 1st. They could announce it tomorrow if Charlotte doesn't pick Howard.

sixthman
06-21-2004, 06:43 PM
Interesting. Guess we'll find out. :)

Al and Ron, huh? Dunno, but if Ron was gone anyway, better he help seal the deal for McGrady than just give him up for a Bonzi Wells or a James Posey.

That is exactly how I feel.

I think the exchange is fair. While I'd love to keep Freddie, I'd rather give him up than Jamaal or Jeff Foster.

Also, I believe, if the Pacers were to reach this far to make something special happen in Indiana, I believe we can expect some decent pickups to help fill in the holes.

Hicks
06-21-2004, 06:47 PM
The Magic could throw in Decercq and it would work.

Don't know about that.

*edit* Yes I do, see my next post*

On RealGM, going by their point scale, Francis is 36.3, Cato 24.4, and Mobley is 17.9.

For Orlando, McGrady is 44.0, Howard 16.3, and DeClercq 8.3.

Francis/Cato = 60.7
McGrady/Howard = 60.3
Francis/Cato/Mobley = 78.6
McGrady/Howard/DeClercq = 68.6

Hicks
06-21-2004, 06:49 PM
Whoops, you're right will. 15% off of 78.6 is 66.81, it would in fact work.

But is Orlando really willing to give up all that just for what Houston's offering?

Surely Al/Ron/Jones is more attractive.

Kstat
06-21-2004, 06:51 PM
Whoops, you're right will. 15% off of 78.6 is 66.81, it would in fact work.

But is Orlando really willing to give up all that just for what Houston's offering?

Surely Al/Ron/Jones is more attractive.

You're assuming that Donnie IS OFFERING AL, Ron and Freddie. I dont think there's any way he is that dumb or desperate.

sixthman
06-21-2004, 06:52 PM
Any capologist know if Ron + Al + Fred + Future draft pick for McGrady works straight-up cap-wise? Or would there need to be further tweaking?

If not it's very close, easily tweakable.

The salaries are a very good match.

Ron, Al and Freddie make a little under 14 mil; T-Mac is said to make a little more than 14 mil. We're talking July 1 salaries, here. So the trade works to the tee.

Draft picks not signed count -0- when you calculate a trade, by the way.

able
06-21-2004, 06:53 PM
The Magic could throw in Decercq and it would work.

Don't know about that.

*edit* Yes I do, see my next post*

On RealGM, going by their point scale, Francis is 36.3, Cato 24.4, and Mobley is 17.9.

For Orlando, McGrady is 44.0, Howard 16.3, and DeClercq 8.3.

Francis/Cato = 60.7
McGrady/Howard = 60.3
Francis/Cato/Mobley = 78.6
McGrady/Howard/DeClercq = 68.6
edit: <shrug> if they throw in DeClerq it works anyway

maths!

Francis (BYC) = 18.2
CAto = 24.4
Mobley = 17.9
total= 60.5

McGrady Howard= 60.3

well within 15 %

Hicks
06-21-2004, 06:53 PM
Whoops, you're right will. 15% off of 78.6 is 66.81, it would in fact work.

But is Orlando really willing to give up all that just for what Houston's offering?

Surely Al/Ron/Jones is more attractive.

You're assuming that Donnie IS OFFERING AL, Ron and Freddie. I dont think there's any way he is that dumb or desperate.

Only if you assume Al/Ron/Jones for TMac is dumb and deperate. I don't.

Suaveness
06-21-2004, 06:53 PM
Bah. I want Fred here at least. No way do we give up Ron and Fred.

Pig Nash
06-21-2004, 06:53 PM
I don't even know what to think anymore. I'm tired of speculating so i'm just assuming he's going everywhere and then getting into the white house. (see my new sigs :devil:)

Will Galen
06-21-2004, 06:53 PM
The Magic could throw in Decercq and it would work.

Don't know about that.

On RealGM, going by their point scale, Francis is 36.3, Cato 24.4, and Mobley is 17.9.

For Orlando, McGrady is 44.0, Howard 16.3, and DeClercq 8.3.

Francis/Cato = 60.7
McGrady/Howard = 60.3
Francis/Cato/Mobley = 78.6
McGrady/Howard/DeClercq = 68.6

I took their salary's from hoops hype.

TMac $14,487,000
Howard $5,408,000
Decercq $2,765,812
Total $22,660,812

Francis $11,326,219
Cato $7,992,000
Mobley $5,884,500
Total $25,202,719

They are within 15% of each other.

Hicks
06-21-2004, 06:54 PM
The Magic could throw in Decercq and it would work.

Don't know about that.

On RealGM, going by their point scale, Francis is 36.3, Cato 24.4, and Mobley is 17.9.

For Orlando, McGrady is 44.0, Howard 16.3, and DeClercq 8.3.

Francis/Cato = 60.7
McGrady/Howard = 60.3
Francis/Cato/Mobley = 78.6
McGrady/Howard/DeClercq = 68.6

I took their salary's from hoops hype.

TMac $14,487,000
Howard $5,408,000
Decercq $2,765,812
Total $22,660,812

Francis $11,326,219
Cato $7,992,000
Mobley $5,884,500
Total $25,202,719

They are within 15% of each other.

Yeah see above a little ways I corrected myself, you were right.

Will Galen
06-21-2004, 06:56 PM
Whoops, you're right will. 15% off of 78.6 is 66.81, it would in fact work.

But is Orlando really willing to give up all that just for what Houston's offering?

Surely Al/Ron/Jones is more attractive.

You're assuming that Donnie IS OFFERING AL, Ron and Freddie. I dont think there's any way he is that dumb or desperate.

Have any of you guys considered it's not Donnie, but Bird doing the offering?

Suaveness
06-21-2004, 06:56 PM
Would they give all that up? Orlando I mean.

sixthman
06-21-2004, 06:57 PM
You're assuming that Donnie IS OFFERING AL, Ron and Freddie. I dont think there's any way he is that dumb or desperate.

If the Pacers make this move by some chance, I will conclude the Pacers decided there had to be life without Ron Artest and he was going to be traded this off season.

Suaveness
06-21-2004, 06:57 PM
Whoops, you're right will. 15% off of 78.6 is 66.81, it would in fact work.

But is Orlando really willing to give up all that just for what Houston's offering?

Surely Al/Ron/Jones is more attractive.

You're assuming that Donnie IS OFFERING AL, Ron and Freddie. I dont think there's any way he is that dumb or desperate.

Have any of you guys considered it's not Donnie, but Bird doing the offering?


Well, can Bird be that dumb or desperate?

Hicks
06-21-2004, 06:58 PM
You're assuming that Donnie IS OFFERING AL, Ron and Freddie. I dont think there's any way he is that dumb or desperate.

If the Pacers make this move by some chance, I will conclude the Pacers decided there had to be life without Ron Artest and he was going to be traded this off season.

Exactly. And this would mean that we just had to use Ron to finish of trading Al and Jones for a new SG, and in this case it's a superstar.

There's a good chance Ron's gone in a lesser deal if we can't use him in a trade such as this one anyway.

With that in mind, it's a good deal.

Hicks
06-21-2004, 06:59 PM
No matter which guy it is, I'd never call this deal dumb or desperate. Only way I ever would is if I find out something in hindsight. But as of now, no way, this is a realistic deal.

Will Galen
06-21-2004, 06:59 PM
The Magic could throw in Decercq and it would work.

Don't know about that.

On RealGM, going by their point scale, Francis is 36.3, Cato 24.4, and Mobley is 17.9.

For Orlando, McGrady is 44.0, Howard 16.3, and DeClercq 8.3.

Francis/Cato = 60.7
McGrady/Howard = 60.3
Francis/Cato/Mobley = 78.6
McGrady/Howard/DeClercq = 68.6

I took their salary's from hoops hype.

TMac $14,487,000
Howard $5,408,000
Decercq $2,765,812
Total $22,660,812

Francis $11,326,219
Cato $7,992,000
Mobley $5,884,500
Total $25,202,719

They are within 15% of each other.

Yeah see above a little ways I corrected myself, you were right.

I saw that after I had posted. Anyway, you don't think I would not post after doing all that work do ya? :laugh:

Suaveness
06-21-2004, 06:59 PM
I wanna keep Fred...

Any way of this working keeping him?

able
06-21-2004, 07:00 PM
The Magic could throw in Decercq and it would work.

Don't know about that.

On RealGM, going by their point scale, Francis is 36.3, Cato 24.4, and Mobley is 17.9.

For Orlando, McGrady is 44.0, Howard 16.3, and DeClercq 8.3.

Francis/Cato = 60.7
McGrady/Howard = 60.3
Francis/Cato/Mobley = 78.6
McGrady/Howard/DeClercq = 68.6

I took their salary's from hoops hype.

TMac $14,487,000
Howard $5,408,000
Decercq $2,765,812
Total $22,660,812

Francis $11,326,219
Cato $7,992,000
Mobley $5,884,500
Total $25,202,719

They are within 15% of each other.

Yeah see above a little ways I corrected myself, you were right.

sorry missed that to :D

but even with the salaries, if Francis= BYC = 50% then Francis/Cato/Mobley for Tmac/Howard works
(5.5+8+6=19.5 14.5+5.5=20 diff=0.5 which is well within 15%

Hicks
06-21-2004, 07:00 PM
I wanna keep Fred...

If Fred's the difference between 10 years of T-Mac or no, then it's worth it. And you know I love Freddie.

Suaveness
06-21-2004, 07:01 PM
I wanna keep Fred...

If Fred's the difference between 10 years of T-Mac or no, then it's worth it. And you know I love Freddie.

And this also means giving up our 2 best perimeter defenders.

Hicks
06-21-2004, 07:02 PM
I wanna keep Fred...

If Fred's the difference between 10 years of T-Mac or no, then it's worth it. And you know I love Freddie.

And this also means giving up our 2 best perimeter defenders.

Very observant. I've explained why I'm OK with Ron going, and Fred's not THAT good to say no to this.

On top of that, I think McGrady's D will surprise you (in a good way :p)

indygeezer
06-21-2004, 07:12 PM
I still think it's totally BOGUS!!!

Too much money involved. Look He may b a talent but at 25 Tmac is already making 12 mil a year. What range does that put him in in his NEXT contract?!?!?!?! HE'd be approaching SHaq money and we can't keep him AND JO and have anybody else on the team!

I just don't buy it.


BTW,some reports I read today said that Francis had said he didn't want to go to Vancou...I mean Orlando.

Will Galen
06-21-2004, 07:14 PM
Able's right is does work even with Francis being BYC. (I have to see the numbers)

TMac $14,487,000
Howard $5,408,000
Total $19,895,000

Francies $5,663,110 (50% because being BYC)
Cato $7,992,000
Mobley $5,884,500
Total $19,539,610

I think it's going though this way. The reason they have to wait until tommorrow is to make sure Charlotte doesn't take Howard.

TMac is gone!

sixthman
06-21-2004, 07:25 PM
Will, regarding the BYC aspect, the Magic have to court Stevie at full value. It's Houston who counts him at half.

So they are taking in salaries of over 25 million in the trade.

But they are only sending out salaries of 19 million, or so.

So the trade would not work as the Magic are taking on too much salary for what they are trading.

Will Galen
06-21-2004, 07:25 PM
The reason I think the Magic are going this way is because the deal gives them a center and a point guard. They already have a small forward in Gooden, and with the #1 pick they can draft Okafor.

Their lineup.
PG......Francies
SG......Mobley
C.......Cato
PF......Okafor
SF .....Gooden

Trading with the Pacers they may get better players but it doesn't give them a center or point guard. I think they are doing the smart thing, if they want to compete right away. In the long run . . . PPPPLLEETT!

Will Galen
06-21-2004, 07:27 PM
Will, the Magic have to court Stevie at full value.

So they are taking in salaries of over 25 million in the trade.

But they are only sending out salaries of 19 million, or so.

So the trade would not work as the Magic are taking on too much salary for what they are trading.

Oops that's right! :blush:

ABLE! Darn you! :laugh:

I give up, I'm just gonna wait and see.

sixthman
06-21-2004, 07:28 PM
I don't think Gooden is a small forward. Like Juwan Howard he is really a power forward. That's part of the reason, Orlando sucked so badly. Those guys were playing out of position too often.

bulletproof
06-21-2004, 07:28 PM
Whoops, you're right will. 15% off of 78.6 is 66.81, it would in fact work.

But is Orlando really willing to give up all that just for what Houston's offering?

Surely Al/Ron/Jones is more attractive.

You're assuming that Donnie IS OFFERING AL, Ron and Freddie. I dont think there's any way he is that dumb or desperate.

Have any of you guys considered it's not Donnie, but Bird doing the offering?

Or maybe they had such a huge difference of opinion, Donnie told Larry to go golfing for a week.

Will Galen
06-21-2004, 07:33 PM
Whoops, you're right will. 15% off of 78.6 is 66.81, it would in fact work.

But is Orlando really willing to give up all that just for what Houston's offering?

Surely Al/Ron/Jones is more attractive.

You're assuming that Donnie IS OFFERING AL, Ron and Freddie. I dont think there's any way he is that dumb or desperate.

Have any of you guys considered it's not Donnie, but Bird doing the offering?

Or maybe they had such a huge difference of opinion, Donnie told Larry to go golfing for a week.

I thought you weren't going to say anything more about it? :laugh:

Will Galen
06-21-2004, 07:34 PM
I don't think Gooden is a small forward. Like Juwan Howard he is really a power forward. That's part of the reason, Orlando sucked so badly. Those guys were playing out of position too often.

That's true too! Bah Humbug on me! :rolleyes:

I was on a roll too! :laugh:

Hicks
06-21-2004, 07:36 PM
sixthman, that's what I thought (regarding Francis' BYC).

Will, I thought the general consensus was that Francis ISN'T a true PG, just a SG playing out of position? Why would Orlando want that?

And no, I don't think Gooden's a SF at all.

Kstat
06-21-2004, 07:36 PM
I don't think Gooden is a small forward. Like Juwan Howard he is really a power forward. That's part of the reason, Orlando sucked so badly. Those guys were playing out of position too often.

That's true too! Bah Humbug on me!

Gooden is a PF with the muscle mass of a SF. He's just not strong enough to take the ball inside like a big man, and he isnt a good enough shooter to play on the perimeter.

He;s the definition of a tweener.

bulletproof
06-21-2004, 07:37 PM
Have any of you guys considered it's not Donnie, but Bird doing the offering?

Or maybe they had such a huge difference of opinion, Donnie told Larry to go golfing for a week.

I thought you weren't going to say anything more about it? :laugh:

That is what is called an off-handed remark. :P

Unclebuck
06-21-2004, 08:37 PM
ESPN News is reporitng that the Magic and Rockets deal is a done deal at this point as long as the expansion draft goes as planned.

They just had Kevin Feigan, may not have his first name correct, but he is a writer for the Houston Chronicle and he seemed to think it was a done deal.

Just telling you what I heard.

I don't have the slightest idea.

IndianaMan
06-21-2004, 10:47 PM
If we were to trade artest, al and fred could we sign bowen as a FA and have bender as the 6th man

Anthem
06-22-2004, 12:34 AM
If we were to trade artest, al and fred could we sign bowen as a FA and have bender as the 6th man

No we couldn't. We'd blow the cap wide open.

If we trade w/ Orlando, I hope we include Pollard and Howard.