Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Star: It's back to basics for the Pacers

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Star: It's back to basics for the Pacers

    O'Brien stressing fundamentals to his young team



    By Mike Wells
    Posted: November 18, 2008




    http://www.indystar.com/article/2008...TS04/811180395


    Jim O'Brien never has been one to bite his tongue when praising or criticizing his team.

    That's why it wasn't surprising the Pacers coach put his team through a lengthy film and practice session Monday afternoon. The focus was on the fundamental part of the game. O'Brien used the word "fundamental" in some form 13 times during a five-minute interview following the workout.

    Simple concepts like boxing out and jump-stopping before attempting a pass are two areas where the Pacers have struggled lately, a key factor in their two-game losing streak.

    "It's everything we've been working on since the first day of practice,"

    O'Brien said. "Nothing has changed. We're just not consistently executing the fundamentals of the game of basketball. The same fundamentals that every team no matter what age is working on. Proper passing, proper screening, reversing the basketball, defensive stance."

    O'Brien stopped several drills in practice Monday to remind his team to box out.

    The Pacers have been out- rebounded on the offensive end by more than one a game this season. They gave up 20 offensive rebounds in a loss to Philadelphia on Friday when they blew a 26-point lead.

    "It's up to the five people on the court. Somebody needs to hit a good rebounder and everybody needs to pursue," O'Brien said.

    "Sometimes you have to hit him with two people, but you have to pursue (the basketball)."

    The Pacers are 4-0 when they turn the ball over fewer than 13 times a game. They're 0-5 when have at least 15 turnovers.

    "I'm a little surprised that our team is not taking more pride in taking care of the basketball," O'Brien said. "It's not that they don't know how to understand how to pass and cut, to jump stop. They do. Taking it on the court is very, very important. We'll be working on the same fundamentals every single day until the last day of the season."

    The Pacers expect to be tested in their next two games, both at home, after blowing two opportunities to move several games over .500.

    Atlanta, tonight's opponent, is an athletic team. After opening the season 6-0, the Hawks bring a three-game losing streak to Conseco Fieldhouse. Friday's opponent, Orlando, has one of the game's best rebounders in Dwight Howard. Both the Hawks and Magic are playoff contenders.

    "They are playing well," Pacers forward Danny Granger said of the Hawks.

    "They're one of the better teams, highly athletic. They've got it going. Joe Johnson is having a great season. It presents a problem, but we should be able to get them."

    O'Brien wants better rebounding, but the Pacers may have to go with a small lineup to match Atlanta's athleticism. That strategy did not work well last weekend.

    "Frankly, athleticism is really key," O'Brien said. "Sometimes we are not as athletic as our opponents, which makes the fundamentals of offensive and defensive basketball much more important."


    -----------------------


    To those who've criticized O'Brien recently, this article should be instructive. The criticism was that he doesn't take control of the game sufficiently by calling time out when things are going wrong.

    This article makes it clear that O'Brien coaches the players, not the game. He wants the team to run and be fluid, so when they're on the floor he doesn't want to interfere as much as some fans want him to. Instead, he does his coaching during practice, trying to instill in all the players the habits that will make them do the right things instinctively when they are running at game speed.

    You may not agree with the approach, or with the results it gets. But at least you ought to recognize his reasons.
    Last edited by Putnam; 11-18-2008, 10:56 AM.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  • #2
    Re: Star: It's back to basics for the Pacers

    I'll repeat what I've said - I truly think O'Brien is a very good coach (thought that when he was in Boston and Philly).

    Do I personally agree with running and shooting as many threes as we do - probably not, but that is what he believes in - and I think he's getting the team to play as he wants them. But the team plays hard and IMO that is the most important thing.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Star: It's back to basics for the Pacers

      Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
      I'll repeat what I've said - I truly think O'Brien is a very good coach (thought that when he was in Boston and Philly).

      Do I personally agree with running and shooting as many threes as we do - probably not, but that is what he believes in - and I think he's getting the team to play as he wants them. But the team plays hard and IMO that is the most important thing.
      Agreed. 100%
      "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

      - Salman Rushdie

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Star: It's back to basics for the Pacers

        I think the players work well together...just that sometimes they seem alittle out of sync which is to be expected for a team going through a transition period. Unfortunately, when those times do come it really hurts them bad and they have a difficult time regrouping from such lapses. Of course, not having a definitive post-player remains a concern. You can tell that in at least two of their losses (Suns, Cavs) their opponent really knew how and where to strike at them - right at PF!

        That said, I do believe the JOB's system can work IF our Guards were knocking down more 3-pt shots, specifically BRush. I'm seeing alot of good things from players, i.e., guys are attacking the basket more w/dribble penetration, they're trying to work more off screens and curls, and their moving the ball around although from time-to-time the flow of the game will get alittle stagnant in the half-court. But overall, I like what I see. The team's bread-N-butter game remains "motion", PnR and a solid perimeter game. Defining a post-player will change the team's dynamic, however. It's the one piece that's missing.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Star: It's back to basics for the Pacers

          If he only coaches the players, and not the game, then why in the hell is he even on the bench during games?

          Personally, I think it's an excuse, and not a very good one at that. If that were truly the case, then the PG would always call the plays, he would never call at TO etc.

          Using TO's can be extremely effective, especially when a team is this new to each other. He's not Phil Jackson, and he doesn't have the luxury of players like Kobe and Pau to get things on track without a timeout.

          It's his job to coach every aspect, not just let them shoot themselves in the foot.

          I don't know why, but that reasoning really grinds my gears.
          Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Star: It's back to basics for the Pacers

            Originally posted by Putnam View Post
            To those who've criticized O'Brien recently, this article should be instructive. The criticism was that he doesn't take control of the game sufficiently by calling time out when things are going wrong.

            This article makes it clear that O'Brien coaches the players, not the game. He wants the team to run and be fluid, so when they're on the floor he doesn't want to interfere as much as some fans want him to. Instead, he does his coaching during practice, trying to instill in all the players the habits that will make them do the right things instinctively when they are running at game speed.

            You may not agree with the approach, or with the results it gets. But at least you ought to recognize his reasons.
            Wasn't there a coach from UCLA several years ago that coach the same way. He coached the players and not the game.

            What was his name ???

            I would rather be the hammer than the nail

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Star: It's back to basics for the Pacers

              Originally posted by Alabama-Redneck View Post
              Wasn't there a coach from UCLA several years ago that coach the same way. He coached the players and not the game.

              What was his name ???

              I Wooden't know.
              Last edited by Putnam; 11-18-2008, 12:20 PM.
              And I won't be here to see the day
              It all dries up and blows away
              I'd hang around just to see
              But they never had much use for me
              In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Star: It's back to basics for the Pacers

                Originally posted by Putnam View Post
                [
                To those who've criticized O'Brien recently, this article should be instructive. The criticism was that he doesn't take control of the game sufficiently by calling time out when things are going wrong.

                This article makes it clear that O'Brien coaches the players, not the game. He wants the team to run and be fluid, so when they're on the floor he doesn't want to interfere as much as some fans want him to. Instead, he does his coaching during practice, trying to instill in all the players the habits that will make them do the right things instinctively when they are running at game speed.

                You may not agree with the approach, or with the results it gets. But at least you ought to recognize his reasons.
                Okay, I'm listening.

                At least you're not saying he's trying to conserve his timeouts. That argument doesn't work because he could have called a couple strategic timeouts in the first half against Philly.

                So, you're saying that his reason is to train players to be mentally strong and learn to work through difficult stretches and not rely on the bandaid of a timeout to recover.

                Ehhhhhh . . . ummmmmm . . . I don't know.

                First of all, JOB hasn't said this. Maybe he just is a bad tactician and courtside coach. But let's assume you are right and he does this deliberately for the reason you articulated. I still don't agree with it. It's like telling a guy training for a marathon that he can't drink water. I mean, you're allowed to drink water, it helps you, it can keep you from collapsing. What is this, the Russian gulag or what?

                One other thing: if JOB is so future minded to allow his team to collapse in defeat to learn lessons for later in the season, then why isn't he willing to take the same hits by playing guys like Hibbert a little more to help us later in the season?

                Maybe its simply a contradiction of his. We all have them, I suppose.

                You may be right, Putnam, but I'm still grumbling about it.
                "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Star: It's back to basics for the Pacers

                  I don't buy into JO'B's the team has worked on these things in practice, so I don't need to call a TO to stop a problem. They can figure it out themselves view he seems to have. He's being paid darn good money to instruct players during the game as well as in practice. If that's a problem, let him work the counter down at Mickey D's!

                  The team practices the system and type of game he wants played, and he needs to call a time put when the team gets off track to get them back on track. You don't let them continue to keep doing the samething that is causing the problem. Instructing during practice is only part of his job. Managing the game is another part of his job description and duties.

                  Like someone else pointed out "saved to's aren't rolled over to the next game." Use them, and use them constructively...that's why they are given to teams.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Star: It's back to basics for the Pacers

                    There is the Bob Knight "Timeouts are a sign of weakness"
                    ...to which I've always said "So is what is happening with the score on the scoreboard"

                    But in the NBA there are SOOOOO many more games than in college. What a coach does with a young team at the beginning of the year might not be what he'd do with a veteran team trying to secure a playoff spot.

                    When it comes to game management and the Pacers I think back to Isiah Thomas who might've been the worst at it that I'd ever seen....
                    So J'OB looks pretty good when you consider how bad we've been in the not too distant past.
                    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                    ------

                    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                    -John Wooden

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Star: It's back to basics for the Pacers

                      Originally posted by Justin Tyme View Post
                      I don't buy into JO'B's the team has worked on these things in practice, so I don't need to call a TO to stop a problem. They can figure it out themselves view he seems to have. He's being paid darn good money to instruct players during the game as well as in practice. If that's a problem, let him work the counter down at Mickey D's!

                      The team practices the system and type of game he wants played, and he needs to call a time put when the team gets off track to get them back on track. You don't let them continue to keep doing the samething that is causing the problem. Instructing during practice is only part of his job. Managing the game is another part of his job description and duties.

                      Like someone else pointed out "saved to's aren't rolled over to the next game." Use them, and use them constructively...that's why they are given to teams.
                      A couple of things you are neglecting...
                      The theory would be he's trying to get them to learn to play thru these things for down the road so calling a T/O would ruin that. He's also trying to make a point and willing to sacrifice a game to do it. "When you don't do what we've been practicing, you get beat"

                      If your complaint centers on simply doing everything he can to win any one game then you're probably barking up the wrong tree.

                      If your complaint is he's not properly teaching the players winning ways then that's another story.

                      Throwing the kitchen sink at any one game to eek out a meaningless win and not make a point for the long term isn't necessarily the best long term strategy.

                      Now, making questionable substitutions (or refusing to sub) is a whole 'nother argument.
                      Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                      ------

                      "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                      -John Wooden

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Star: It's back to basics for the Pacers

                        Originally posted by Justin Tyme View Post
                        I don't buy into JO'B's the team has worked on these things in practice, so I don't need to call a TO to stop a problem. They can figure it out themselves view he seems to have. He's being paid darn good money to instruct players during the game as well as in practice. If that's a problem, let him work the counter down at Mickey D's!

                        The team practices the system and type of game he wants played, and he needs to call a time put when the team gets off track to get them back on track. You don't let them continue to keep doing the samething that is causing the problem. Instructing during practice is only part of his job. Managing the game is another part of his job description and duties.

                        Like someone else pointed out "saved to's aren't rolled over to the next game." Use them, and use them constructively...that's why they are given to teams.
                        Let's make one thing perfectly clear: O'Brien does not once say in this article that he doesn't use time outs because they have worked on these things in practice. This was an inferrence made by Putnam, and Putnam only.

                        What O'Brien stresses is that we've lost games because we aren't doing the things that they do work on in practice. They basically aren't playing the way they should.

                        As to the timeout thing, there is only one immutable truth in coaching: You can't outcoach the game. Good coaches understand this, bad coaches don't. Isiah Thomas never understood this. Rick Carlisle lost sight of this in his last season, and it's why he earned his dismissal.

                        A good coach focuses primarily on getting his players prepared to play the game. He teaches them what to do, and how to play within the team. Within the game, they will make subtle adjustments primarily designed to get their players back to playing the way they've prepared. This is how Wooden worked. This is how Knight worked.

                        Where O'Brien fits in this spectrum is difficult to tell, but I believe it's closer to good than bad. (I agree with Buck in not particularly liking his offensive scheme.)

                        The whole idea that a time out will miraculously stem the tide is an iffy proposition. I'd have to see some analysis whether that was true or not, because I've seen plenty of runs continue well after time outs. Often, the urge comes from both the constant harping from the talking heads (Get a TO, Baby), and the desire to do something, anything. However, the only proven way to stop runs is to make stops and get good offensive possessions.

                        Yes, there are times that TO's should be taken to regroup. However, I believe those times are far fewer than many believe. The key is understanding when the players need direction, and when the players just need to get it together. Most of the time, you're far better off when the players on the floor find it within themselves to buckle down on D, then run a good offensive set.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Star: It's back to basics for the Pacers

                          Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
                          One other thing: if JOB is so future minded to allow his team to collapse in defeat to learn lessons for later in the season, then why isn't he willing to take the same hits by playing guys like Hibbert a little more to help us later in the season?

                          Maybe its simply a contradiction of his. We all have them, I suppose.
                          I think you've hit the nail on the head. I think that O'Brien really uses early season games to teach and build toward a late season and playoff run. That's why you see him fooling around with rotations and using a number of different lineups now. I don't know how many people remember last season, but for those of you who are complaining about the 9-10 man rotations now, wait 3 months until it's down to 8.

                          In direct response to your question, my guess is that O'Brien believes he is teaching Hibbert by not playing him. I'm willing to bet that he works with Roy on the same things almost everyday in practice. Then when he puts Roy in the games and sees him doing the exact same things they've been trying to teach him not to do, he pulls him out and tells him why he's not getting the minutes. It's not like he's getting DNP-CD's.
                          "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

                          - Salman Rushdie

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Star: It's back to basics for the Pacers

                            Count55 is right that I infer that O'Brien doesn't like to call timeouts. O'Brien doesn't say that in this article.

                            I'll stick with the idea, though. I think O'Brien believes running the other team off its legs is a good thing to try to do, and that calling a timeout can help the other team more than it helps the Pacers.


                            Originally posted by McKeyFan
                            I still don't agree with it. It's like telling a guy training for a marathon that he can't drink water.
                            I would say it is more like pulling a marathon runner to the side of the road and making him break his pace in order to say, "Keep running!"



                            Admittedly, I have no idea what O'Brien thinks, what he says during practices or the real reason he didn't stop the action during the slide against the Sixers.
                            And I won't be here to see the day
                            It all dries up and blows away
                            I'd hang around just to see
                            But they never had much use for me
                            In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Star: It's back to basics for the Pacers

                              Originally posted by Putnam View Post
                              Count55 is right that I infer that O'Brien doesn't like to call timeouts. O'Brien doesn't say that in this article.

                              I'll stick with the idea, though. I think O'Brien believes running the other team off its legs is a good thing to try to do, and that calling a timeout can help the other team more than it helps the Pacers.




                              I would say it is more like pulling a marathon runner to the side of the road and making him break his pace in order to say, "Keep running!"



                              Admittedly, I have no idea what O'Brien thinks, what he says during practices or the real reason he didn't stop the action during the slide against the Sixers.
                              BTW...I don't think it's a bad inferrence on your part. I think that it's probably consistent with Obie's philosophy. I was responding to the guys who were directly attacking Obie for making the comment when that wasn't the case.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X