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Will Galen
06-20-2004, 06:38 AM
http://www.indystar.com/articles/2/156291-9562-179.html

McGrady not likely headed to Pacers
Houston appears to be the front-runner to acquire the Magic star before NBA draft.

By Mark Montieth
mark.montieth@indystar.com
June 20, 2004

A trade involving Orlando guard Tracy McGrady appears imminent, but the Indiana Pacers don't appear to be his likeliest destination.

Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh said Saturday he has not talked with Magic general manager John Weisbrod since early last week, and that no formal offer has been made.

"If there's going to be interest in doing a deal with us, he's going to get back to me," Walsh said of Weisbrod. "He hasn't done that. I don't know where it stands."

McGrady, according to newspaper reports out of Orlando, told Magic owner Rich DeVos on Friday he wants to be traded. Weisbrod said he has been in constant communication with McGrady's agent, Arn Tellem, and indicated he expects to have a deal -- at least orally -- before Thursday's NBA draft.

Orlando, which finished with a league-worst 21-61 record last season, has the No. 1 pick.

McGrady has stated various preferences in recent weeks, but the current consensus within the league is that he's most likely to go to Houston.

Rockets point guard Steve Francis and coach Jeff Van Gundy were at odds last season, and McGrady has stated a desire to play with Houston's Yao Ming.

Any trade involving Francis would likely be made after July 1, when he loses his base-year compensation status that reduces his trade value to half of his $12.3 million salary for next season. The Magic and Rockets, however, could agree on a deal before then.

McGrady also has expressed a desire to play for San Antonio and the Los Angeles Lakers, and mentioned interest in the Pacers and Detroit when those two teams met in the Eastern Conference finals. Saturday, he told a Florida Today reporter he and Shaquille O'Neal are attempting to work trades that would unite them in Dallas.

"The kid's been all over the board emotionally," Weisbrod told Orlando reporters Saturday. "He's a little inconsistent but that's pretty understandable. Arn's job is to sort of stay close to him and make sure he's representing however (McGrady) feels that day."

McGrady has some control over his future because he can opt out of his contract after next season. The Magic want to trade him now so they don't risk losing him without getting anything in return, as happened with O'Neal in 1996. If the Magic offer a trade that doesn't appeal to him, he could opt out after next season and become a free agent. Any team that trades for him will want assurances that he will re-sign next year.

Tellem also represents the Pacers' Jermaine O'Neal and Reggie Miller.

Various trade packages between the Pacers and Magic have been rumored, although most of them could not be done within NBA rules that require all traded players' salaries to match within 15 percent plus $100,000.

McGrady will be paid $14.5 million next season. The Pacers mentioned most prominently in rumors are Al Harrington ($6.3 million), Jonathan Bender ($6.5 million) and Ron Artest ($6.2 million). Jeff Foster ($4.5 million) and Jamaal Tinsley ($1.5 million) also have been mentioned.

Walsh, however, moved to downplay the rumors.

"It isn't the players mentioned in these accounts," he said. "That's not the correct group of players."

Harrington appears to be the most likely Pacer to be included in a trade because of his desire for more playing time and a greater role in the offense. He said Saturday he has heard nothing about the possibility of being traded to Orlando, and has in fact cooled on the desire to be traded that he expressed to team president Larry Bird after the Pacers lost to Detroit in the conference finals.

Anthem
06-20-2004, 12:57 PM
Walsh, however, moved to downplay the rumors.

"It isn't the players mentioned in these accounts," he said. "That's not the correct group of players."

It's not? Then it's no wonder Orlando's not getting back to us. Who did we offer, Freddy Jones and Scot Pollard?

Cactus Jax
06-20-2004, 01:04 PM
I think this is a another Donnie Walsh trick up his sleave. He's trying to make it seem that Orlando's offer was too high (Which it was), and is trying to drive down the value.

For Orlando it's pretty much down to if they want Steve Francis, Shawn Marion, or some variation of Al Harrington, Ron Artest, and Jonathan Bender.

All Dallas has are huge contracts, and San Antonio doesn't have enough pieces, and I don't think Detroit is willing enough to break up a good part of their team.

Anthem
06-20-2004, 01:09 PM
All Dallas has are huge contracts, and San Antonio doesn't have enough pieces, and I don't think Detroit is willing enough to break up a good part of their team.

Portland could probably make a move. I can't see how the Suns are even in the picture.

Will Galen
06-20-2004, 01:36 PM
Walsh, however, moved to downplay the rumors.

"It isn't the players mentioned in these accounts," he said. "That's not the correct group of players."

It's not? Then it's no wonder Orlando's not getting back to us. Who did we offer, Freddy Jones and Scot Pollard?

I think we offered Artest and Croshere. Walsh mentioned 'two players' as being offered for TMac. That would be a different group. Also remember that in offering two players the players have to meet cap requirements. Artest and Bender, and Al and Bender, don't meet cap requirements. Al and Artest was mentioned as one of the groups that was wrong.

He also said in today's star that Orlando hadn't gotten back to them. I think Orlando knows they can get Artest plus change from Indiana, so they are looking to find someone better than Artest before getting back to Indiana.

Anthem
06-20-2004, 01:47 PM
I think we offered Artest and Croshere. Walsh mentioned 'two players' as being offered for TMac. That would be a different group. Also remember that in offering two players the players have to meet cap requirements. Artest and Bender, and Al and Bender, don't meet cap requirements. Al and Artest was mentioned as one of the groups that was wrong.

Artest and Croshere isn't going to do it. There's no way we can pull this trade off without including two of our three SFs.

Besides, we need Croshere to send to Boston! :flirt:

Will Galen
06-20-2004, 01:51 PM
I think we offered Artest and Croshere. Walsh mentioned 'two players' as being offered for TMac. That would be a different group. Also remember that in offering two players the players have to meet cap requirements. Artest and Bender, and Al and Bender, don't meet cap requirements. Al and Artest was mentioned as one of the groups that was wrong.

Artest and Croshere isn't going to do it. There's no way we can pull this trade off without including two of our three SFs.

Besides, we need Croshere to send to Boston! :flirt:

Send to Boston for who? Blount in a sign and trade? Cro makes to much money. It would have to be Blout and someone else. Who do you have in mind?

TheSauceMaster
06-20-2004, 02:06 PM
I am glad I never really subscribed to all these Tmac to Indiana rumors , I mean I looked at it objectively and honestly and the reality was too grim to get any of my hopes up. Seems like Donnie is looking for a Dream Deal and the Magic don't share that Dream , they Want to maximize what they get for Tmac.

Honestly only we know what kinda qaulity players we are offering , fans outside of Indiana probably don't know much about what we are offering , the same could be said for the fans of the other teams , so we all think our deals are sweeter than maybe what the Magic people think they are.

I still don't think we need Tmac to win a Championship and afterall we almost got to the finals with the current team we have, I am not too excited to bust up a team that won us the best record in the league and got us to the ECF. I just think we need to add some smaller pieces to the puzzle , I think Donnie and Larry know what those pieces maybe and Offering up a Deal for Tmac was just standard and any team who thinks they have a shot will try to offer a deal , you just do not try to get a player like Tmac.

There is plenty of Options left to get some quality and I think Donnie and Larry will work there best they can , they Don't want to just get careless and not get a worthy trade value. If we only get a SG and change nothing else I will be happy with our chances this next year to make a title run , of course anything beyond a SG would be icing on the cake so to speak.

Young
06-20-2004, 02:33 PM
This sucks if this is true but thursday we should have an answer.

Roaming Gnome
06-20-2004, 03:33 PM
I am glad I never really subscribed to all these Tmac to Indiana rumors , I mean I looked at it objectively and honestly and the reality was too grim to get any of my hopes up. Seems like Donnie is looking for a Dream Deal and the Magic don't share that Dream , they Want to maximize what they get for Tmac.

Honestly only we know what kinda qaulity players we are offering , fans outside of Indiana probably don't know much about what we are offering , the same could be said for the fans of the other teams , so we all think our deals are sweeter than maybe what the Magic people think they are.

I still don't think we need Tmac to win a Championship and afterall we almost got to the finals with the current team we have, I am not too excited to bust up a team that won us the best record in the league and got us to the ECF. I just think we need to add some smaller pieces to the puzzle , I think Donnie and Larry know what those pieces maybe and Offering up a Deal for Tmac was just standard and any team who thinks they have a shot will try to offer a deal , you just do not try to get a player like Tmac.

There is plenty of Options left to get some quality and I think Donnie and Larry will work there best they can , they Don't want to just get careless and not get a worthy trade value. If we only get a SG and change nothing else I will be happy with our chances this next year to make a title run , of course anything beyond a SG would be icing on the cake so to speak.

I'll have to agree with you Sauce on the fact that getting T-mac is/was a long shot because in the beginning I was thinking that Orlando would want to try to get some "Star Power" back in the deal. Star Power is the thing that gets the casual fans thru the door. At least with Steve Francis, Orlando gets a star the fans recognize and that softens the blow of losing the only draw for a team that is going to be bad for a couple of years. Al and Bender do not have the name recognition among the fans and could hurt in the fans eyes. That is why I would be truly suprised if we are really even being considered by Orlando if Houston is willing to give up Star Power.

indygeezer
06-20-2004, 03:49 PM
I still think that it's been a smokescreen for other things LBDW may wanna force. Or perhaps the screen was put out there by Orlando in the 1st place. But DW will not take on a 2nd contract that large. He MIGHT let someone grow into it (ala JO) but not trade for it. They get too expensive too soon.
I eally like the Blount idea or a 3pt outside big guy like McCarty...or really big beef like Seattle has (but unproven, just Donnies style). But McGraady was always unrealistic IMO.

Will Galen
06-20-2004, 04:14 PM
I am glad I never really subscribed to all these Tmac to Indiana rumors , I mean I looked at it objectively and honestly and the reality was too grim to get any of my hopes up. Seems like Donnie is looking for a Dream Deal and the Magic don't share that Dream , they Want to maximize what they get for Tmac.

Honestly only we know what kinda quality players we are offering, fans outside of Indiana probably don't know much about what we are offering , the same could be said for the fans of the other teams , so we all think our deals are sweeter than maybe what the Magic people think they are.

I still don't think we need Tmac to win a Championship and after all we almost got to the finals with the current team we have, I am not too excited to bust up a team that won us the best record in the league and got us to the ECF. I just think we need to add some smaller pieces to the puzzle , I think Donnie and Larry know what those pieces maybe and Offering up a Deal for Tmac was just standard and any team who thinks they have a shot will try to offer a deal , you just do not try to get a player like Tmac.

There is plenty of Options left to get some quality and I think Donnie and Larry will work there best they can , they Don't want to just get careless and not get a worthy trade value. If we only get a SG and change nothing else I will be happy with our chances this next year to make a title run , of course anything beyond a SG would be icing on the cake so to speak.

Wait a minute. How can you say you never really believed the Internet rumors and then in the same paragraph say you think Donnie was looking for a dream deal? The way the paragraph is written it makes it appear you did put some stock in Internet rumors.

Then in the next paragraph you say, "Honestly only we know what kinda quality players we are offering . . . " How can we know what kind of players we are offering if we don't believe the Internet rumors? We don't know what players have been offered or even that there has been any offers. (unless we believe Internet rumors)

As for Donnie looking for a dream deal, Donnie is to experienced to be out looking for a dream deal. Even JO for Dale Davis wasn't a dream deal. It may seem that way now, but at the time Dale was an all star.

I agree with your reasonings that we don't need TMac. I think it's going to be a long off season filled with rumors. And I think you are believing some of them despite yourself. :)

Jose Slaughter
06-20-2004, 04:43 PM
A couple things stood out in that article.

1. If there's going to be interest in doing a deal with us, he's going to get back to me," Walsh said of Weisbrod.

Why would he get back to Walsh when Bird is in charge of the day to day operation of the Pacers.

2. Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh said Saturday he has not talked with Magic general manager John Weisbrod since early last week, and that no formal offer has been made.

Weisbrod said he has been in constant communication with McGrady's agent, Arn Tellem

The above two are both true & connected.

Walsh has not spoken to Weisbrod - true, & here is why.

Weisbrod is letting Tellem to the leg work. That is why Wesibrofd is in "constant" communication with Tellem. He is letting the Tellem - McGrady team work out the details before a "formal" offer is made.

That's where the first statement comes back into play.

If there's going to be interest in doing a deal with us, he's going to get back to me,"

If Tellem - McGrady are the ones "interested" in doing the deal, Weisnrod will get back with him at that time.

Walsh is telling the absolute truth but he is not being totally honest.

My view is that Walsh - Bird are keeping in touch with Tellem & Tellem is relaying that info back to Weisbrod.

The Pacers are very much still active in the process to get McGrady.

Young
06-20-2004, 04:48 PM
A couple things stood out in that article.

1. If there's going to be interest in doing a deal with us, he's going to get back to me," Walsh said of Weisbrod.

Why would he get back to Walsh when Bird is in charge of the day to day operation of the Pacers.

2. Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh said Saturday he has not talked with Magic general manager John Weisbrod since early last week, and that no formal offer has been made.

Weisbrod said he has been in constant communication with McGrady's agent, Arn Tellem

The above two are both true & connected.

Walsh has not spoken to Weisbrod - true, & here is why.

Weisbrod is letting Tellem to the leg work. That is why Wesibrofd is in "constant" communication with Tellem. He is letting the Tellem - McGrady team work out the details before a "formal" offer is made.

Walsh is telling the absolute truth but he is not being totally honest.

My view is that Walsh - Bird are keeping in touch with Tellem & Tellem is relaying that info back to Weisbrod.

The Pacers are very much still active in the process to get McGrady.

I hope your right.

It makes perfect since though.

DW is not really lying but just not telling the whole truth as already pointed out.

I don't think DW would just sit around and wait on JW to contact him about a player like TMac because DW is smart enough to jump on a player like TMac when the oppurtionty is here.

Now I don't feel like throwing up.

Will Galen
06-20-2004, 05:58 PM
A couple things stood out in that article.

1. If there's going to be interest in doing a deal with us, he's going to get back to me," Walsh said of Weisbrod.

Why would he get back to Walsh when Bird is in charge of the day to day operation of the Pacers.

I figure this question was mostly directed at me, because I'm the one that has made a big deal out of who's in charge. My answer, Walsh said "me," because Walsh was the one that called him. Plus, Walsh is used to being in charge so he could have said "me" out of habit.

Think about this. Walsh called the Magic but he didn't talk to Weisbrod, he talked to someone else. This is the busiest time of the year for NBA executives so where was Weisbrod? Taking a nap? No he was probably talking to one of the other teams on the phone and couldn't talk to Walsh.

Being there are 30 teams the guy that makes the decisions isn't the only one that's going to be working the phones. Bird no doubt is working the phones too. Plus we don't know when the phone call was made. Bird could have been watching a college player work out for all we know.

I agree with Bulletproof that Donnie and Bird work closely, so when you see something in the news I wouldn't put too much stock in how something is expressed.

I agree with your reading between the lines on what is going on though. It makes sense.

PacersFan
06-20-2004, 06:04 PM
What really stood out to me after the stuff about the trade for McGrady was the last paragraph

Harrington appears to be the most likely Pacer to be included in a trade because of his desire for more playing time and a greater role in the offense. He said Saturday he has heard nothing about the possibility of being traded to Orlando, and has in fact cooled on the desire to be traded that he expressed to team president Larry Bird after the Pacers lost to Detroit in the conference finals.

I think he actually has heard about these rumors and finally has figured out that it's actually better to be coming off the bench for a Championship contender then starting for the worst team in the NBA.
I don't know if Walsh did it intentionally or not, but by helping spread the rumor about a trade to Orlando, it might actually help us keep the 2nd best 6th man in the NBA.

Hoop
06-20-2004, 06:17 PM
Donnie said he wasn't going to fire Isiah............ and he didn't, Bird did. :devil: No matter what Donnie says, we won't know anything for sure till the papers are signed. :signit:

Hoop
06-20-2004, 06:51 PM
The eagle flies at midnight. :ninja:

The bear sh*ts in the woods at dawn. :nunchuck:

Hicks
06-20-2004, 06:56 PM
Thrice under the Jade Moon doth the monkey dance.

JOneal7
06-20-2004, 07:02 PM
it's all hear say...For all we know some team out the blue like the knicks (God forbid) could snatch Tmac. LOL
No one really knowes what's going on but if say, we all think oh he's headed to houston...but when in fact tmac and shaq are tying to get to dallas...then wtf is this houston crap coming from? I don't think anyone really knowes anything...wouldn't it be just a total shock if on draft day you hear..."The orlando magic...have traded Tracy Mcgrady to Indiana for____" Maybe JO And Reggie are keeping in touch with tellem there agent as opposed to tmac to see if he's going to come. Maybe JO has talked to Tmac and Tellem? who really knowes...so

Doug in CO
06-20-2004, 07:06 PM
Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh said Saturday he has not talked with Magic general manager John Weisbrod since early last week, and that no formal offer has been made.

"If there's going to be interest in doing a deal with us, he's going to get back to me," Walsh said of Weisbrod. "He hasn't done that. I don't know where it stands."

SAME OLD AGGRESSIVE DONNIE

JOneal7
06-20-2004, 07:13 PM
yeah but if he's going to get back with you it's going to go down. You have to get both parties and explore all options first. For all we know he hasn't gotten back to the rockets either. We are all just cooling our heals here till we find out what's really going on.

Chambizzle
06-21-2004, 01:05 AM
Maybe if the rockets do trade for McGrady maybe we can work a 3 way with ORL and Houston to pull Mobley out :P

Natston
06-21-2004, 02:08 AM
do a 3 way, pull out :P

Hidden message... :devil:

JOneal7
06-21-2004, 02:23 AM
gorss!!!!!^^^^^lol

Peck
06-21-2004, 05:47 AM
A couple things stood out in that article.

1. If there's going to be interest in doing a deal with us, he's going to get back to me," Walsh said of Weisbrod.

Why would he get back to Walsh when Bird is in charge of the day to day operation of the Pacers.

I figure this question was mostly directed at me, because I'm the one that has made a big deal out of who's in charge. My answer, Walsh said "me," because Walsh was the one that called him. Plus, Walsh is used to being in charge so he could have said "me" out of habit.

Think about this. Walsh called the Magic but he didn't talk to Weisbrod, he talked to someone else. This is the busiest time of the year for NBA executives so where was Weisbrod? Taking a nap? No he was probably talking to one of the other teams on the phone and couldn't talk to Walsh.

Being there are 30 teams the guy that makes the decisions isn't the only one that's going to be working the phones. Bird no doubt is working the phones too. Plus we don't know when the phone call was made. Bird could have been watching a college player work out for all we know.

I agree with Bulletproof that Donnie and Bird work closely, so when you see something in the news I wouldn't put too much stock in how something is expressed.

I agree with your reading between the lines on what is going on though. It makes sense.

Will, why would the star even be interviewing Walsh at all about player moves?

It's not like Bird has not been around up here. He's making himself available for every tv market & national media.

The reason that the star still goes to Donnie is because they know, more than the outside press knows, that Walsh is still the pupetmaster.

I don't know why you believe so strongly that Bird is actually in charge & has final say.

The fact that Walsh can fire Bird at any time, IMO, automatically gives Walsh the final say.

Will Galen
06-21-2004, 09:12 AM
[Will, why would the star even be interviewing Walsh at all about player moves?

Sigh! The last I read he's still with the Pacer's. Tell me why he shouldn't be giving interviews?

It's not like Bird has not been around up here. He's making himself available for every tv market & national media.

If Bird meets with the press they are going to want to ask him about white players versus black players. It's better right now if Donnie fields questions from the press, Bird would probably tell them to take a hike. Then again maybe Bird is out playing golf. :laugh:

The reason that the star still goes to Donnie is because they know, more than the outside press knows, that Walsh is still the pupetmaster.

I think the outside press realize that Donnie is the chief operating officer.

I don't know why you believe so strongly that Bird is actually in charge & has final say.

Because that was the job he was hired to do! Because that was what Donnie said.

The fact that Walsh can fire Bird at any time, IMO, automatically gives Walsh the final say.

Well if you look at it that way then Walsh doesn't have final say, the Simon's do. But they won't override Donnie any more than Donnie will override Bird. When you hire someone to do a job don't you expect them to do it? Don't they expect to do it? Who's job is it to make personnel decision's? Walsh says it's Bird's job!

If Donnie would over ride Bird on player evaluations and choices Bird would quit. Does Donnie want that? No.

Bird is the word!

Peck
06-21-2004, 09:52 AM
[Will, why would the star even be interviewing Walsh at all about player moves?

Sigh! The last I read he's still with the Pacer's. Tell me why he shouldn't be giving interviews?

It's not like Bird has not been around up here. He's making himself available for every tv market & national media.

If Bird meets with the press they are going to want to ask him about white players versus black players. It's better right now if Donnie fields questions from the press, Bird would probably tell them to take a hike. Then again maybe Bird is out playing golf. :laugh:

The reason that the star still goes to Donnie is because they know, more than the outside press knows, that Walsh is still the pupetmaster.

I think the outside press realize that Donnie is the chief operating officer.

I don't know why you believe so strongly that Bird is actually in charge & has final say.

Because that was the job he was hired to do! Because that was what Donnie said.

The fact that Walsh can fire Bird at any time, IMO, automatically gives Walsh the final say.

Well if you look at it that way then Walsh doesn't have final say, the Simon's do. But they won't override Donnie any more than Donnie will override Bird. When you hire someone to do a job don't you expect them to do it? Don't they expect to do it? Who's job is it to make personnel decision's? Walsh says it's Bird's job!

If Donnie would over ride Bird on player evaluations and choices Bird would quit. Does Donnie want that? No.

Bird is the word!


1. Conrad Brunner is also with the Pacers, why doesn't the media just interview him. Or David Benner or any of the other front office types?

The reason being is that Donnie is still the man.

2. No, locally Bird has been making the interview rounds. Yes, some have asked about the race thing, but others have focused on the team. So, no, it's not that the star can't find him or he won't talk to them. & yes I'm sure he still plays plenty of golf.

3. No, the press knows that Donnie is the Chief Executive Officer & as such the final decisions are his & his alone.

4. I'd like to find the transcript of Birds intro to relook & see what it was that was said for sure. But let's be honest here Bird was brought in for the same reason he was brought in the last time. Ticket sales. Yes, it is hoped that he will eventually replace Donnie but IMO, he has a large window to learn in. Until Donnie Walsh leaves the Pacers he will still have a say in who is a Pacer.

5. Yes, ultimately the Simons are the powerbrokers. They have chosen to give the power to Donnie Walsh. In turn Donnie has stated he is giving it to Bird. But actions & words are not matching here.

I do think it's a collaberation, but right now I think that Larry is following Donnie's lead at the moment. However I do think that Larry is having a huge input. Thus, why after a 61 win season we are hearing about moves. This is NOT a typical Walsh off-season so far. But I still see way to much of Walsh's hands on this to say that this is Birds team yet.

Chambizzle
06-21-2004, 10:04 AM
do a 3 way, pull out :P

Hidden message... :devil:

Hahah... :loser:

Chambizzle
06-21-2004, 11:56 AM
"The Pacers are willing to trade up Al Harrington, Johnathon Bender, Ron Artest, and might have to throw in Fred Jones to Orlando for Tracy McGrady, Andrew DeClerq, and future considerations. The Magic have been pondering about this deal, but it may backfire and end up having a log jam at the Small Forward position."

*shrug*

"Believe it or not, the Golden State Warriors are the leading candidate for the McGrady sweepstakes, according to an Orlando Magic official. The Warriors are offering Jason Richardson, Mike Dunleavy Jr., Clifford Robinson, and their #11 overall pick to Orlando for Tracy McGrady, and the #37 overall pick(via Pho)."

lol... I still think we'll snatch them

"According to sources, a deal involving McGrady is supposed to be made on draft night, June 24th."

ChicagoJ
06-21-2004, 12:07 PM
"The Pacers are willing to trade up Al Harrington, Johnathon Bender, Ron Artest, and might have to throw in Fred Jones to Orlando for Tracy McGrady, Andrew DeClerq, and future considerations. The Magic have been pondering about this deal, but it may backfire and end up having a log jam at the Small Forward position."

*shrug*

"Believe it or not, the Golden State Warriors are the leading candidate for the McGrady sweepstakes, according to an Orlando Magic official. The Warriors are offering Jason Richardson, Mike Dunleavy Jr., Clifford Robinson, and their #11 overall pick to Orlando for Tracy McGrady, and the #37 overall pick(via Pho)."

lol... I still think we'll snatch them

"According to sources, a deal involving McGrady is supposed to be made on draft night, June 24th."

Why don't we just trade Al/ Jon/ Ron/ Fred for J-Rich, Dunelavey, Uncle Cliff and the #11. Screw McGrady.

:D

Will Galen
06-21-2004, 01:05 PM
1. Conrad Brunner is also with the Pacers, why doesn't the media just interview him. Or David Benner or any of the other front office types?

Because they are in the Marketing arm of Pacer's Sports and Entertainment. Conrad Brunner is Director/Internet Marketing, David Brenner, is Director/Public Information. What does it tell you that in his column of May 17th, Conrad Brunner writes I quote,

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/question_040517.html
Only three players will be free agents this summer – Kenny Anderson, Jamison Brewer and James Jones – which means the nucleus of the team can be kept intact. Anthony Johnson has an option to become a free agent, but it doesn't’t seem likely he’ll exercise it, given his prominent place in the rotation.

Then in a column wrote on June 15th, titled Off Season Primer he writes,

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/offseason_primer_2004.html I quote, Brewer is a restricted free agent. Johnson has an option to become an unrestricted free agent this summer. Croshere and Pollard are veterans with relatively large contracts. Though those deterrents don’t rule out any of those four, they do reduce the likelihood of their selection. That leaves Brezec and Jones, two young players with relatively small contracts, as the strongest candidates to become Bobcats.

In the first column he writes that Brewer and James Jones are both free agents along with Anderson, and Johnson is a restricted free agent. In the second he writes that Brewer is restricted along with Johnson. And he indicates that JJ is still under contract. Why does he get things wrong? Because he's in marketing, not in basketball operations, thus he doesn't know what's going on unless basketball operations tells him. Brunner's Question of the day column gives this information. Brunner’s opinions are his own and do not necessarily reflect those of Pacers players, coaches or management.

Note too, Brunner says this in the June 15th column, Franchise President Larry Bird has watched and learned through one full season and now has a much better handle on the makeup of his players. This offseason represents his first real chance to put his stamp on the roster, and it seems likely he’ll seize the moment.


3. No, the press knows that Donnie is the Chief Executive Officer & as such the final decisions are his & his alone.

If this is true why does Pacer.com say this is Bird's first chance to put his stamp on the roster?


4. I'd like to find the transcript of Birds intro to relook & see what it was that was said for sure. But let's be honest here Bird was brought in for the same reason he was brought in the last time. Ticket sales. Yes, it is hoped that he will eventually replace Donnie but IMO, he has a large window to learn in. Until Donnie Walsh leaves the Pacers he will still have a say in who is a Pacer.

Peck I give the URL the last time this subject came up. You took part in the discussion so I guess you missed it. Here it is again, http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/bird_030711.html

The pertinent data is this, This is a quote from Walsh on Bird, “It basically means he will become responsible for the day-to-day operations of Pacers basketball,” Walsh said. “What that includes is pretty much everything – administration, coaching, players, scouting, training, video and whatever else has the tag basketball on it. …


5. Yes, ultimately the Simons are the powerbrokers. They have chosen to give the power to Donnie Walsh. In turn Donnie has stated he is giving it to Bird. But actions & words are not matching here.

I disagree. What you are seeing is nothing more than collaboration.


I do think it's a collaboration, but right now I think that Larry is following Donnie's lead at the moment. Since this is Larry's first time doing this I agree. However I do think that Larry is having a huge input. I agree, he's going to be the one making the picks, etc. Thus, why after a 61 win season we are hearing about moves. This is NOT a typical Walsh off-season so far. But I still see way to much of Walsh's hands on this to say that this is Birds team yet.

As Brunner said, "This is Larry's first change to put his stamp on the roster." What you are seeing is Walsh showing Larry the ropes. He does not have to show Larry how to evaluate players.

Larry fired Isiah. Larry hired Carlisle. Larry hired scouts. Unless Walsh fires him Larry will be making the picks and trades too.

Jose Slaughter
06-21-2004, 02:02 PM
Peck I give the URL the last time this subject came up. You took part in the discussion so I guess you missed it. Here it is again, http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/bird_030711.html

The pertinent data is this, This is a quote from Walsh on Bird, “It basically means he will become responsible for the day-to-day operations of Pacers basketball,” Walsh said. “What that includes is pretty much everything – administration, coaching, players, scouting, training, video and whatever else has the tag basketball on it. …

In a successful buisness you don't bring in a guy to run the operation with a little something I like to call, training.

bulletproof
06-21-2004, 02:24 PM
Will, you're a grown man. Haven't you learned by now, don't believe everything you read. Peck's largely right.

My last comment on the subject:

When Donnie began talking to Larry about coming on board to replace him, Donnie was seriously considering leaving the team altogether. After 25 years in the NBA, he simply wanted to spend more time with his family. A contract was put in front of him in the spring of 2003, which prompted him to contact Larry. As a courtesy to the Simons, Donnie wanted help find his replacement.

When Donnie's granddaughter died in June of last year, he still hadn't signed the contract. But that expediated his desire to leave and hire Bird, which happened in very quick fashion 2 weeks later. But see, the Simons didn't want Donnie to leave, so they made him an offer he couldn't refuse: They'd allow him to hire Bird so he could pull back more. Essentially, Will, they allowed Donnie to hire Bird so Donnie would stay because they didn't want to lose him. They did whatever was necessary to keep him.

Now, the next question is, has Donnie pulled backed? No, he hasn't. In fact, if anything, he's been working more since Bird's arrival. His choice, of course.

The point is, what you read and what is reality are two different things. Donnie would not have hired Larry if he didn't respect him, and Larry wouldn't have taken the job if he didn't respect Donnie and he didn't see an eventual upside to the job. Right now, the black and white way in which you imagine the division of their responsibilities just doesn't exist. These are two men who see eye-to-eye on a lot of things regarding how the organization should be run. They share the same sensibilities. And if that didn't exist, these two men wouldn't be working together.

Will Galen
06-21-2004, 04:38 PM
In a successful buisness you don't bring in a guy to run the operation with a little something I like to call, training.

Jose, where have I said different?

Now answer this question. What traning does Bird need in evaluating players?

ChicagoJ
06-21-2004, 04:40 PM
In a successful buisness you don't bring in a guy to run the operation with a little something I like to call, training.

Jose, where have I said different?

Now answer this question. What traning does Bird need in evaluating players?

Bob Whitsett is one hell of an evaluator. Can't build a team though. I'd assume Bird needs lots of training, since he's never built a team before.

Will Galen
06-21-2004, 04:59 PM
Will, you're a grown man. Haven't you learned by now, don't believe everything you read. Peck's largely right.

My last comment on the subject:

When Donnie began talking to Larry about coming on board to replace him, Donnie was seriously considering leaving the team altogether. After 25 years in the NBA, he simply wanted to spend more time with his family. A contract was put in front of him in the spring of 2003, which prompted him to contact Larry. As a courtesy to the Simons, Donnie wanted help find his replacement.

When Donnie's granddaughter died in June of last year, he still hadn't signed the contract. But that expediated his desire to leave and hire Bird, which happened in very quick fashion 2 weeks later. But see, the Simons didn't want Donnie to leave, so they made him an offer he couldn't refuse: They'd allow him to hire Bird so he could pull back more. Essentially, Will, they allowed Donnie to hire Bird so Donnie would stay because they didn't want to lose him. They did whatever was necessary to keep him.

Now, the next question is, has Donnie pulled backed? No, he hasn't. In fact, if anything, he's been working more since Bird's arrival. His choice, of course.

The point is, what you read and what is reality are two different things. Donnie would not have hired Larry if he didn't respect him, and Larry wouldn't have taken the job if he didn't respect Donnie and he didn't see an eventual upside to the job. Right now, the black and white way in which you imagine the division of their responsibilities just doesn't exist. These are two men who see eye-to-eye on a lot of things regarding how the organization should be run. They share the same sensibilities. And if that didn't exist, these two men wouldn't be working together.

I glad this is your last comment on the subject, because you don't seem to be comprhending what I'm saying.

That post you just wrote? It's just a rehash of a couple other posts you wrote. I agreed with them too!

It's kind of redunit to keep writing something to explain your side when that someone agrees with you and has took pains to explain the only place he doesn't agree with you.

We disagree on who's call it is if Walsh and Bird disagree. And they have disagreed before!

Will Galen
06-21-2004, 05:13 PM
See Conrad Brunner's latest article.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4488

bulletproof
06-21-2004, 05:36 PM
See Conrad Brunner's latest article.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4488

Yeah, so? I take everything I read regarding the Pacers with a grain of salt.

Will Galen
06-21-2004, 05:57 PM
See Conrad Brunner's latest article.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4488

Yeah, so? I take everything I read regarding the Pacers with a grain of salt.

:laugh: :D :laugh: :D :laugh:

bulletproof
06-21-2004, 06:16 PM
See Conrad Brunner's latest article.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4488

Yeah, so? I take everything I read regarding the Pacers with a grain of salt.

:laugh: :D :laugh: :D :laugh:

:laugh: :alcohol: :lol2: :dancers: :crazy: :laugh: