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OakMoses
10-22-2008, 12:34 PM
This should generate some discussion if nothing else. I tried to be objective, but I probably failed. Players are ranked in order of my own personal preference.

PG: Billups, Ford/Jack, Hinrich/Rose, Williams, Ridnour

Billups is the only all-star PG in the division. Ford is the best “pure” PG in the division, and could put up all-star numbers if he stays healthy and gets big minutes. Rose will be the best PG in the division (and probably the conference) in 2 years. I don’t like Williams or Ridnour, though Williams is clearly the better of the two.

<O:p
SG: Hamilton, Dunleavy, Redd, Gordon/Hughes, Sczerbiak/Pavlovic/West

<O:p
This is a very debatable category. I think is the class of the division because he’s very strong on both ends of the floor. I prefer Dunleavy over Redd because of his overall offensive game, higher b-ball IQ, and defensive effort level. I don’t really like Gordon or Hughes.Cleveland’s SG rotation is a mess if you consider LeBron a SF like I do.

<O:p
SF: James, Jefferson, Granger, Prince, Deng

<O:p
This is by far the strongest position in the division with every team having a quality starter. I consider Jefferson, Granger, Prince, and Deng to all be very close in ability. <ST1:pJefferson</ST1:p gets the nod for being the most proven of the four. When you consider Granger, Prince, and Deng, it gets tough. Tayshaun is the best defender but is behind the other two offensively, though he has a nice all-around game. Two years ago Deng looked to be obviously better than Granger, but he struggled last year while Danny flourished. Hollinger projects them as Deng, Granger, Jefferson, Prince. Tendex ratings have <ST1:pJefferson</ST1:p and Granger tied for first, then Deng and Prince. Roland ratings rank them Prince, Jefferson, Deng, Granger.

<O:p</O:p
PF: R. Wallace, Gooden/Thomas, Murphy, Villanueva, B. Wallace

<O:p
This is the weakest position in the division. ‘Sheed is head and shoulders above the rest. The next guys are all borderline starters at best. Tyrus Thomas and Villanueva have potential but have never put it all together. Gooden and Villanueva fail to play hard every night. We all know about <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/ /><st1:City w:st=Hamilton</ST1http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/ /><st1:City w:st=<ST1:pTroy</ST1:p</st1:City>. Ben Wallace is old and has no offensive game.

<O:p
C: Ilgauskas, Bogut, Johnson/McDyess, Nesterovic/Hibbert, Noah/Gray

<O:p
Ilgauskas and Bogut are both good starting centers. Bogut should be better than Ilgauskas. It’s close, but I’d still take Big Z. I consider McDyess and Rasho to be even, but I give the <st1:City w:st="on">Detroit</st1:City> combo the nod because Johnson has produced at the NBA level (in limited minutes, I know) while <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pRoy</ST1:p</st1:City> is a rookie. Both players have quite a bit of upside. <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pChicago</ST1:p</st1:City> is a mess at center.

<O:p
BENCH:
<O:p
CHI: Rose, Sefolosha, Gordon, Nocioni, Thomas
DET: Stuckey, Maxiell, Afflalo, McDyess, Herrman
<ST1:p<st1:State w:st="on">IND</st1:State></ST1:p: Jack, Rush, Daniels, Foster, Hibbert
CLE: Szcerbiak, Varejao, West, Gibson, Pavlovic
MIL: Sessions, <ST1:p<st1:City w:st="on">Bell</st1:City></ST1:p, Gadzuric, Alexander

<O:p</O:p
This is an incredibly hard and subjective category to judge. <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pMilwaukee</ST1:p</st1:City> very clearly has the worst bench in the division. <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pCleveland</ST1:p</st1:City> has a bench of decent contributors with almost no upside. Foster and McDyess are the two best bigs coming off the bench. Gordon is the best scorer, but I could easily see Stuckey surpassing him as an all-around player. I see <st1:City w:st="on">Chicago</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Indiana</st1:State>, and <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pDetroit</ST1:p</st1:City> as all having very good benches that have a nice combination of potential and proven production. I place the <st1:City w:st="on">Chicago</st1:City> and <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pDetroit</ST1:p</st1:City> benches ahead of the Pacers because they have potentially explosive game-changing players in Gordon and Stuckey that the Indy bench lacks.

<O:p</O:p
Overall Strength:

<O:p</O:p
<st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pDetroit:</ST1:p</st1:City> Obviously the best team in the division.

<O:p
<st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pCleveland:</ST1:p</st1:City> LeBron makes up for a myriad of shortcomings.

<O:p</O:p<st1:State w:st="on"></st1:State>
<st1:State w:st="on">Indiana</st1:State>: Better coaching, PG play, and a more cohesive roster give them the nod over <st1:City w:st="on">Chicago</st1:City> and
<st1:City w:st="on">Milwaukee</ST1:p</st1:City>.

<O:p
<st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pMilwaukee</ST1:p</st1:City>: Bad PG play and a terrible bench are a lot to overcome. If Charlie V. can bring it every night, they could surprise, but a couple injuries could lead to a less than 30 win season.

<O:p</O:p
<st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pChicago</ST1:p</st1:City>: A lot of nice pieces that don’t really fit and a rookie coach. One more bad season and then some purging should have this team competitive in ’09-10.

Mourning
10-22-2008, 01:01 PM
I thought Francisco Elson is also part of the Milwaukee bench. I think that is a good benchplayer for sure.

Further, personally I would take Redd over Dun Dun, though I like Mike. Mike is not a pure SG though and lacks the speed to keep up at the defensive end. Redd can create opportunities for himself, can score at will or take over a game offensively, has a huge range and is quick, while not awfull defensively.

I wouldn't want Redd as my first option, but together with Martin of the Kings they are sort of like the ultimate sidekicks/number two options, especially if the first option is a PF or C.

For the rest I can go a long way with you. I think Milwaukee might actually do pretty good this year and I'm hoping Charly keeps up his pre-season form, because he is lighting up the sheets.

xtacy
10-22-2008, 01:12 PM
good comparisons there you've done a great job.

i agree with mourning. i like dun but redd is better than him.

MillerTime
10-22-2008, 01:15 PM
Redd is better than Dunleavy. Dunleavy's main offensive weapon is his shot, and Redd probably has a better one. On the defensive end, they both arent good defenders..

But overall (not considering his contract), I would rather have Redd

Mourning
10-22-2008, 01:27 PM
Well... Mike's shot is absolutely a very good offensive weapon. I would say his awareness and court vision are pretty topnotch aswell, I don't know which I would rank higher, both are quite good.

All in the eye of the beholder I guess :).

Justin Tyme
10-22-2008, 02:51 PM
It would be interesting to see how the coaches and GM's would be ranked.

I know Dumars takes heat for his Darko pick, but he more than makes up for it by not having paid Ben Wallace. Big Ben is a "overpaid has been" that Paxson made a huge mistake on, and who isn't going to help Cleveland other than keep them in LT land for for the next couple of years.

Plax80
10-22-2008, 03:56 PM
#30: Larry Bird

idioteque
10-22-2008, 04:32 PM
With the SF's, Jefferson is a stat stuffer and nothing more. I've never really seen him go out there and really help his team win.

JayRedd
10-22-2008, 05:02 PM
With the SF's, Jefferson is a stat stuffer and nothing more. I've never really seen him go out there and really help his team win.

Yeah...it's not like he's been to the Finals twice or played in 78 Playoff games or anything.

xtacy
10-22-2008, 05:08 PM
With the SF's, Jefferson is a stat stuffer and nothing more. I've never really seen him go out there and really help his team win.

i totally disagree he's by far the most underrated and underappreciated player in the league.

Dece
10-22-2008, 05:34 PM
I think Kevin Martin holds that particular distinction, but I agree that he's quite good.

Raoul Duke
10-22-2008, 05:39 PM
What is with all the :p ????

Hicks
10-22-2008, 05:52 PM
Yeah...it's not like he's been to the Finals twice or played in 78 Playoff games or anything.

I'll go call Jason Kidd to tell him he was just riding #24's coat tails.

dohman
10-22-2008, 05:56 PM
I'll go call Jason Kidd to tell him he was just riding #24's coat tails.

He had to have someone to pass to didn't he? We all know he didn't score all those points himself.

avoidingtheclowns
10-22-2008, 06:28 PM
I'll go call Jason Kidd to tell him he was just riding #24's coat tails.

well sure it was kidd's team but to say RJeff never helped his team win is pretty ridiculous.

Anthem
10-22-2008, 10:53 PM
What is with all the :p ????
Weird. I posted the same thing but my post disappeared.

McKeyFan
10-22-2008, 11:14 PM
What is with all the ????

Not sure.






:D

xtacy
10-23-2008, 05:36 AM
well sure it was kidd's team but to say RJeff never helped his team win is pretty ridiculous.

well said

Quis
10-23-2008, 06:45 AM
Better starting wings - Dunleavy & Granger or Redd & Jefferson?

Doddage
10-23-2008, 08:09 AM
I'd go with Redd and Jefferson... they're a great complementary pair on paper, but I do think Dunleavy and Granger as a unit still has some potential to establish itself more and could end up being better than the Milwaukee duo.

Either way though, I hope that the discussion for our wings will become Rush and Granger, instead.

Fool
10-23-2008, 08:37 AM
I don't agree with every choice there but it seems a pretty fair break down.

Jefferson is overpaid but a very solid player. I hate him and he destroys Prince every time they match up.

xtacy
10-23-2008, 10:09 AM
Better starting wings - Dunleavy & Granger or Redd & Jefferson?

redd and jefferson for sure