PDA

View Full Version : 10.15.08 Pacers vs. Mavs Post Game Thoughts



duke dynamite
10-15-2008, 09:31 PM
http://www.indycornrows.com/2008/10/15/636036/10-15-08-pacers-vs-mavs-po

A win is a win, preseason or not. The Pacers held off the Mavericks to a score of 100-93.
Anytime we face a Western Conference opponent, I get nervous. Who doesn't? The outcome of the game couldn't be any better than I thought we were going to be.

I really think our bench came out and played well tonight. Well, for preseason's sake, our bench is our starters.
It was a surprise that Granger played, let alone as well as he did. Danny got out of his slump tonight and put on a a decent show. The Mavericks only played their marquee players for a short time with the exception for Diop, and a couple others. Jason Kidd did not play.

Roy, wow...I still don't think he is starter material, but I still have high hopes from him. His defensive prowess is growing by the game. His presence in the paint is one that I haven't seen the likes of since Rik and Dale. However, he needs to work on keeping a firm ground and has to stay out of foul trouble. He is a rookie, but he sure doesn't look like one.

Brandon Rush played magnificently tonight. However, his and Danny's numbers both really don't tell the whole story. Their free throws added a lot to their game tonight. Their shooting percentage needs to go up in order for us to play well agains the stronger defenses in the league.

Although, Austin made both of his shot attempts, which were behind the arc, I do feel like he needs to become on of those big bodies and box out for the rebounds. He did just that tonight.

T.J. Ford and Jarrett Jack played well at the point tonight. Jack had a few noteworthy fast breaks which were nice. The speed of the game was controlled by us throughout the game, which is exactly what we needed out of Ford and Jack.


Some things we need to work on:

Turnovers: we had 21 tonight, 15 in the first half. We have to choose our passes a lot better and protect the ball.

Fouls: There were too many fouls, which most were drawn off of fast breaks. We need to get back on defense and let our big men crash the boards.

Shot Selection: Davis and Rush were main culprits in this area tonight. Be sure that you know that you are capable of making the shot before you go out 23 feet to make a shot.

Notes:
This was Dallas' Coach Rick Carlisle's first game back at Conseco Fieldhouse since his departure in 2006.

Shawne Williams came back to visit since being traded this past weekend to Dallas for Eddie Jones and some other considerations.

I will be at the Fieldhouse this Friday as the Pacers take on the Memphis Grizzlies trying to rebound from the loss agains them Monday in Tennessee.

Pacemaker
10-15-2008, 09:37 PM
Once again Hibbert looked promising !

Pacers4Life
10-15-2008, 09:39 PM
Didn't listen or watch, merely checking out the box score; but here's what i gather:
TJ Ford, 6 total shot attempts as opposed to 18. Lovely.

Granger, still struggling big time shooting the rock. I'm not worried...but he is.
Hibbert, doing what I think he is capable of doing fairly consistently for us. Keep it going big fella!

Really looking forward to the start of the season, cheers

heywoode
10-15-2008, 09:43 PM
Man, I had to take the kids to church tonight for Christmas pageant practice and forgot the game was on! Suckly!

Judging from the box score, it looked like quite a few of our boys played well. Graham had a good stat line, so did TJ. Foster was solid, Granger was aggressive and got 18 pts....wow!

I'm REALLY looking forward to watching this team grow this season. If we can dump Tinsley and get ANYTHING back, I'll be one happy Pacers fan!

Infinite MAN_force
10-15-2008, 09:45 PM
Even though he had another tough night shooting the ball, I am very impressed with Granger's ability to get to the line. If his shot had been falling he would have absolutley lit up the scoreboard in addition to the 10 points from the line. This is a promising development.

dohman
10-15-2008, 10:12 PM
I was able to watch this game in HD here in Dallas and loved every min of it.

I am not going to comment on the game but more the attendance. I have seen high school games with more people in the stands. Hopefully first game people start showing up.

Quis
10-15-2008, 10:37 PM
Hibbert's looking like one of the most offensively skilled centers to enter the league in quite some time.

McKeyFan
10-15-2008, 11:12 PM
I would agree with the assessment that Hibbert is more effective at the offensive than the defensive end right now. But the D can improve.

This was my first real look at Roy, and I am darn impressed. There were a couple pick and rolls between he and Rush, and I think I saw the next Pacer decade right there.

What I like about Roy is his aggressiveness and tenacity. Also his smarts and ability to keep his passion tempered. (Unlike another former backup center :)

Roy also has great vision of the court, as does Rasho. In fact, it looks like our two worst positions last year--center and point--are now our two strongest. What a difference a summer makes.

I guess I feared that a 7-2 center would be Smits-like in his lack of tenacity. No, Roy is a different type of character. His lack of rebounding and defensive lack at the moment is not related to desire, but rather instinct and training. He will never have Foster's instincts, but he's not too far behind. With time and training, he could get very, very good.

As I mentioned in another thread, we may have found in Hibbert the low post threat we have been looking for.

I like Rush too. Solid, smart, smooth. He can't create, though. But T.J. Ford sure can. If that guy continues to be a pass-first, or at least pass-sensitive, point guard, we are gonna have a team at another level this year. T.J. Ford is simply a phenomenon.

Rasho is a breath of fresh air. Hits his shots, makes great passes, veteran decisions and is always in the right place. A bit slow on defense, but overall a solid presence. A great addition to the roster.

Jack is a little wild, but I like him. A great energy guy off the bench.

Foster hit two outside shots tonight, and also had a little spin move to the bucket that went in. Has he been working on his shot over the summer?

Not sure why, but this game tonight really hammered home to me how fast and quick the players have become these days in the NBA. A lot of phenomenal athletes out there.

--McKeyFan

Hicks
10-15-2008, 11:23 PM
I just enjoy watching Roy Hibbert play basketall. With his rebounding, I get the sense that he's an adequate to good rebounder made to look like a bad to poor one by the fact that he's asked to be far from the basket so often. Particularly on offense. But, given his IQ and his passing, you can understand why his college and first pro coach have him there: He knows what to do.

Trader Joe
10-16-2008, 12:12 AM
Impressive game from Shawne Williams tonight.

KennerLeaguer
10-16-2008, 12:20 AM
I would agree with the assessment that Hibbert is more effective at the offensive than the defensive end right now. But the D can improve.




Exactly. This is what I've been stating on these boards since I joined up during the summer. Roy will get better at defense because of his work ethic. His timing will improve on shot blocks although he will never be at Alonzo or Mutombo's level on that front. His rebounding is up and down and often he doesn't bring down as many boards as you would like. He's going to get better at that too but I doubt he'll ever be a great rebounder, just a good to very good one. His true strengths are his skill level, his bball IQ, his wortk ethic and his offense. His offense is ahead of his defense. Period. Any reporter doing his job could have just talked to anyone at Georgetown and they would have learned that. But these hacks in the newspapers (like Mike Wells) and know-nothing writers on NBA internet sites kept telling people Hibbert defense was more advanced than his offensive ability.

KennerLeaguer
10-16-2008, 12:24 AM
I just enjoy watching Roy Hibbert play basketall. With his rebounding, I get the sense that he's an adequate to good rebounder made to look like a bad to poor one by the fact that he's asked to be far from the basket so often. Particularly on offense. But, given his IQ and his passing, you can understand why his college and first pro coach have him there: He knows what to do.

Good point, Hicks. On Gtown boards some of us have defended Roy (and other Gtown big men of recent years) for having lower rebounding numbers because of the pace of those games and because he was camped so far away from the basket on most possessions. Sometimes we disagreed with this move by JTIII. Regardless though Roy still needs to be more aggressive on the boards.

Unclebuck
10-16-2008, 08:33 AM
First chance to really watch the Pacers.

Just a couple of points -

At halftime I told someone - Jack has outplayed TJ in the first half. Then the second half started and TJ Ford put on a point guard clinic - he was incredible during the first 7 minutes or so of the third quarter. Wow - that was impressive.

I thought Rush was really tentative in the first half and then in the 4th quarter he finally looked more relaxed and got into the flow.

I'm not very articulate this morning.

Granger's play last night bugged me. he needs to learn to pass the ball more -seemed like once he started driving he never passed it and there were several times where guys were open for better shots than he was able to get. He still has a long, long way to go.

Hibbert - couple of things impressed me - he looks like an NBA player as opposed to just a tall guy trying to play NBA basketball. His passing is excellent and it seems as though he'll be used as a passer quite a bit from the high post. He has very good hands and that is sooooooooo important for a big guy. Really that cannot be overstated. His defense needs a lot of work - he was often out of position and he, as to be expected, picked up several really bad fouls - that were his fault. Needs to improve his free throw shooting. Overall I was impressed by him - not ready to make any pronouncements

McKeyFan
10-16-2008, 09:06 AM
Exactly. This is what I've been stating on these boards since I joined up during the summer. Roy will get better at defense because of his work ethic. His timing will improve on shot blocks although he will never be at Alonzo or Mutombo's level on that front. His rebounding is up and down and often he doesn't bring down as many boards as you would like. He's going to get better at that too but I doubt he'll ever be a great rebounder, just a good to very good one. His true strengths are his skill level, his bball IQ, his wortk ethic and his offense. His offense is ahead of his defense. Period. Any reporter doing his job could have just talked to anyone at Georgetown and they would have learned that. But these hacks in the newspapers (like Mike Wells) and know-nothing writers on NBA internet sites kept telling people Hibbert defense was more advanced than his offensive ability.

So who would you compare him too?

I'm thinking more like a Ewing, or even a Duncan--not as athletic as skilled and clever.

Unclebuck
10-16-2008, 09:53 AM
I thought Carlisle made an interesting point after the game - it was in the AP article this morning.

He said the Pacers really play with energy on both ends. He went on to say that the Pacers "really compete hard on the offensive end - it's impressive"

I would love for him to elaborate a little on what he meant. to me competing on the offnesive end means, to set hard pick, push the ball, attack the basket, force your opponents into bad positions......

loborick
10-16-2008, 10:39 AM
So who would you compare him too?

I'm thinking more like a Ewing, or even a Duncan--not as athletic as skilled and clever.

You guys don't give a player a chance to develop, make mistakes and grow. Right away you start comparing them to other stars. And then they can't possibly live up to that.

Just enjoy watching a potentially good player develop.

Hicks
10-16-2008, 10:41 AM
This is true. Our roster gets compared to all-stars all the time, and while I hadn't thought about it, that really does set them up for unfair criticism when they (surprise, surprise) most likely WON'T be that good.

idioteque
10-16-2008, 10:47 AM
You guys don't give a player a chance to develop, make mistakes and grow. Right away you start comparing them to other stars. And then they can't possibly live up to that.

Just enjoy watching a potentially good player develop.

I think just because a player reminds you of someone else does not mean that that person expects that player to be just as good, as say, Ewing.

Patrick Ewing and Tim Duncan had completely different styles of play and I think McKey fan is simply trying to say Hibbert has a Ewing-style game, which means that he may not even be half as good as Ewing, just that they may have some of the same strengths and attributes.

McKeyFan
10-16-2008, 10:50 AM
This is true. Our roster gets compared to all-stars all the time, and while I hadn't thought about it, that really does set them up for unfair criticism when they (surprise, surprise) most likely WON'T be that good.

Settle down guys. It's just a little compare and contrast chatter. (And I doubt the players are reading PD that much.)

Plus, you can only make comparisons with players everyone knows. It doesn't help to say "He reminds me of Donyelle Jeffries."

CableKC
10-16-2008, 12:10 PM
So who would you compare him too?

I'm thinking more like a Ewing, or even a Duncan--not as athletic as skilled and clever.
You haven't been reading many of KennerLeaguer's posts about Hibbert have you? ;)

He can probably give you a clearer and exact answer as to who he thinks he compares to....but he seems to think that Hibbert's style of play is not comprable to Ewing, Mourning nor Dikembe ( other Georgetown products ).

ABADays
10-16-2008, 01:35 PM
Hibbert has a Ewing-style game

So how many steps would you expect him to get when he runs across the lane?

Pacers4Life
10-16-2008, 01:42 PM
So how many steps would you expect him to get when he runs across the lane?

that ****'s funny lol

KennerLeaguer
10-16-2008, 02:10 PM
You haven't been reading many of KennerLeaguer's posts about Hibbert have you? ;)

He can probably give you a clearer and exact answer as to who he thinks he compares to....but he seems to think that Hibbert's style of play is not comprable to Ewing, Mourning nor Dikembe ( other Georgetown products ).


CableKC, is correct. I would not compare him to Ewing. When I think of centers who did certain things that Hibbert likes to do/attempts to do I tend to think of Robert Parish, Duncan, Divac. But really Roy is just a unique player and its hard to come up with the perfect comparison.

Pacemaker
10-16-2008, 02:41 PM
CableKC, is correct. I would not compare him to Ewing. When I think of centers who did certain things that Hibbert likes to do/attempts to do I tend to think of Robert Parish, Duncan, Divac. But really Roy is just a unique player and its hard to come up with the perfect comparison.

In my opinion to me he resembles more to Arvydas Sabonis. A big and smart presence, good passer in the post, nice face up jumper, a bit slow but a persistent runner, crafty, high basketball IQ, class act, he even has a hook shot like Sabonis did ! Although Hibbert may end up better defensively.

duke dynamite
10-16-2008, 03:17 PM
Roy Hibbert reminds me of Roy Hibbert.

Doddage
10-16-2008, 06:24 PM
My thoughts?

Hibbert needs to start, and Rush needs lots of PT...

Original, isn't it?

duke dynamite
10-16-2008, 06:28 PM
I will allow Hibbert to start the rest of the preseason. We can't throw him out there yet...

count55
10-16-2008, 07:42 PM
I will allow Hibbert to start the rest of the preseason. We can't throw him out there yet...

Well, that's awfully nice of you.:rolleyes:

BlueNGold
10-16-2008, 08:41 PM
I will allow Hibbert to start the rest of the preseason. We can't throw him out there yet...

Ok, we now know you are actually JOb. Your avatar is simply to throw us off...;)

Hibbert needs to wrest the position from a veteran in my book. Yes, I am old school....or maybe I'm just old....:dance:

duke dynamite
10-16-2008, 09:17 PM
Well, that's awfully nice of you.:rolleyes:


Ok, we now know you are actually JOb. Your avatar is simply to throw us off...;)

Hibbert needs to wrest the position from a veteran in my book. Yes, I am old school....or maybe I'm just old....:dance:
lol

BillS
10-17-2008, 08:42 AM
So how many steps would you expect him to get when he runs across the lane?

One...

Two...

<i>whistle</i>

Exactly Two.

KennerLeaguer
10-17-2008, 09:27 AM
I agree about not getting ahead of ourselves here. No need to rush Hibbert into the starting lineup. Let him learn and get better. Then let him eventually win the job if he is good enough. This is a marathon after all, not a sprint.

idioteque
10-17-2008, 11:05 AM
One...

Two...

whistle

Exactly Two.

:laugh:

If Hibbert is actually ever going to be a Ewing-type player, he's going to have to play for a larger market franchise.

duke dynamite
10-17-2008, 12:24 PM
I agree about not getting ahead of ourselves here. No need to rush Hibbert into the starting lineup. Let him learn and get better. Then let him eventually win the job if he is good enough. This is a marathon after all, not a sprint.
This is what I've been trying to say for the past few days. There is no sense in not trying to assess his talent in full and see what he is capable of before we do something that could hurt him or this team.