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Will Galen
10-10-2008, 05:25 PM
Pacers trade Williams, extend Foster's contract (http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5800011696)
Oct 10, 2008


The thin ice broke. Shawne Williams, the troubled talent described by team President Larry Bird as "on thin ice" during the offseason, was traded to Dallas Friday for veteran Eddie Jones, two future second-round picks and cash.

The Pacers made a second move Friday, extending the contract of veteran center Jeff Foster, who was entering the final season of his deal.

http://www.nba.com/media/playerfile/shawne_williams.jpgWilliams was drafted by the Pacers with the 17th overall pick in the 2006 NBA Draft. In his two seasons with the Pacers, he averaged 5.6 points and 2.3 rebounds in 13.7 minutes per game.

“I had a great relationship with Shawne while he was here,” said Pacers President of Basketball Larry Bird. “We are sad to see him go; but we think this will be a great opportunity for him in Dallas.”

Jones, who will turn 37 later this month, averaged 3.7 points in 47 games with the Mavericks last season, shooting .367 from the field and .293 from the 3-point line. He is in the final year of a contract and reportedly is scheduled to earn $2 million, though some reports indicate the Pacers will waive the 6-6 swingman.

http://www.nba.com/media/playerfile/jeff_foster.jpgFoster, a 6-11, 250-pound center, has spent his entire career as a Pacer; and in his nine years with the team, he has career averages of 5.0 points and 7.0 rebounds per game.

“I’d like to thank the Pacers’ organization for signing me,” said Foster. “We’re in the midst of returning Pacers’ basketball back to the stature of what our fans expect on and off the court. This is my 10th year and I have every intention of finishing my career here. I’m thankful to have been part of this organization and I’m excited to be able to continue to be part of the Pacers.”

Without the extension, Foster would've become an unrestricted free agent next summer.

“I’m very pleased that we’ve signed Jeff to an extension,” said Bird. “Jeff is very important to this franchise. He’s a glue guy; and his hard work, both on and off the court, makes him a great representative of this team.”

Check back throughout the evening for updates. I'll be talking with Bird and Foster soon and will be able to provide many more details.

http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5800011696
------------------------------

Good News Indeed!

Iceman1
10-10-2008, 05:33 PM
Good news indeed....I am glad that they got this done.

CableKC
10-10-2008, 05:38 PM
It's not as good as a some news on Tinsley being traded....but extending Foster makes up for it.

I really wanted him as one of our future core players.

I wonder how much he was extended at....maybe some 2 year guaranteed / 3rd year Team Option at $6.5 mil per season?

Unclebuck
10-10-2008, 05:45 PM
yes!!!!

Hicks
10-10-2008, 05:52 PM
When might we know how long he was extended?

Hicks
10-10-2008, 05:53 PM
Well, that didn't take long. Mike Wells says it's a 2 year extention.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081010/SPORTS04/81010033/1088

juadam09
10-10-2008, 06:02 PM
I am not sure if it is funny or sad (or both) but when I saw I had a email from PS&E I figured it was to say Williams had been traded. I did not get that information from the Indy Star or from Pacers.com, but rather from this site. lol

Awesome to see Jeff extended, now I just hope we get to see Danny get his extension soon as well.

CableKC
10-10-2008, 06:07 PM
Well, that didn't take long. Mike Wells says it's a 2 year extention.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081010/SPORTS04/81010033/1088
2 years is perfect....it fits into whatever 2011-2012 FA plan that TPTB have!

I'm guessing 6.5 mil a year?

Count55, how will our SalaryCap situation look at $6.5 mil a year for 2 seasons?

maragin
10-10-2008, 06:09 PM
That's good-a$$ management.







(I'm elated that we extended his contract)

JayRedd
10-10-2008, 06:21 PM
That's good-a$$ management.

/thread

arenn
10-10-2008, 06:24 PM
Foster is overpaid, so let's hope this wasn't a bad financial deal. I like him, but he makes too much money.

count55
10-10-2008, 06:28 PM
2 years is perfect....it fits into whatever 2011-2012 FA plan that TPTB have!

I'm guessing 6.5 mil a year?

Count55, how will our SalaryCap situation look at $6.5 mil a year for 2 seasons?

At 6.5 mm per year (which I think is probably high), it would basically say that we'd have (prior to re-signing Danny or Jack or anybody else) about $47-48mm in contracts. It is a wise move for someone you intend to keep because it is lower than the caphold (of $8.3mm), thus creating more cap space.

If the Pacers can parlay the 2 2nds from the SW4 deal into closing the Tinsley-to-Denver deal, or figure out how to get that Atkins/Hunter for Tinsley swap done otherwise, than the Pacers would drop down to around $44-45mm in guaranteed contracts before signing anyone else. Danny's caphold is about $7mm, so it would then all depend on how willing you'd be to let Jack and Rasho walk.

If you were willing to do that, then you could have maybe as much as $9mm of space before re-signing Danny (or perhaps $7-8, which would still give you an edge over the MLE only teams).

I know Jack had 8 turnovers, but I think he's a good lockerroom guy, and a good rotational player, so I'd be pre-disposed to keeping/extending him.

The most likely scenario, by a wide margin, is still being basically an MLE only player. However, that's a huge improvement over where we've been the last couple of years, where we were Min only players. If the Tinsley-to-Denver deal could get done, then we would be in a position to make a moderate splash in FA with only giving up JJ.

(BTW...if you want my guess, I think Foster probably just got a 2-year $9-10mm extension, with a declining salary.)

(BTWBTW...I did stop off at Britton and have two or three (four, really), so I'm not all the way here...I don't think anything I've told you is horribly off-base, though.)

count55
10-10-2008, 06:30 PM
Foster is overpaid, so let's hope this wasn't a bad financial deal. I like him, but he makes too much money.

Nonsense.

He makes market value for what he does.

JayRedd
10-10-2008, 06:31 PM
Nonsense.

He makes market value for what he does.

Correct.

El Pacero
10-10-2008, 06:42 PM
Thank you! Thank you! My favorite player on the team and I think the easiest to take for granted. Love you long time Jeff.

CableKC
10-10-2008, 06:44 PM
I guarantee that we would have ( at most ) paid Market value for what Foster would have gotten as a UFA. Teams that are horrible at Offensive Rebounds need players like Foster that does the "little things" as the 1st Big Man off the bench.

duke dynamite
10-10-2008, 06:47 PM
http://www.nba.com/media/pacers/foster_240_advertorial.jpg

I finally get to buy that new bike I've wanted.

I WANT A HUFFY!

CableKC
10-10-2008, 06:52 PM
At 6.5 mm per year (which I think is probably high), it would basically say that we'd have (prior to re-signing Danny or Jack or anybody else) about $47-48mm in contracts. It is a wise move for someone you intend to keep because it is lower than the caphold (of $8.3mm), thus creating more cap space.

If the Pacers can parlay the 2 2nds from the SW4 deal into closing the Tinsley-to-Denver deal, or figure out how to get that Atkins/Hunter for Tinsley swap done otherwise, than the Pacers would drop down to around $44-45mm in guaranteed contracts before signing anyone else. Danny's caphold is about $7mm, so it would then all depend on how willing you'd be to let Jack and Rasho walk.

If you were willing to do that, then you could have maybe as much as $9mm of space before re-signing Danny (or perhaps $7-8, which would still give you an edge over the MLE only teams).

I know Jack had 8 turnovers, but I think he's a good lockerroom guy, and a good rotational player, so I'd be pre-disposed to keeping/extending him.

The most likely scenario, by a wide margin, is still being basically an MLE only player. However, that's a huge improvement over where we've been the last couple of years, where we were Min only players. If the Tinsley-to-Denver deal could get done, then we would be in a position to make a moderate splash in FA with only giving up JJ.

(BTW...if you want my guess, I think Foster probably just got a 2-year $9-10mm extension, with a declining salary.)

(BTWBTW...I did stop off at Britton and have two or three (four, really), so I'm not all the way here...I don't think anything I've told you is horribly off-base, though.)
I'm totally cool with a 2 year guaranteed Contract since a huge chunk of Salary Cap will be cleared when Dunleavy/Murphy come off the books after the 2010-2011 season. At the end of his contract, he'll be 34 years old...not bad if you ask me.

As for the $6.5 mil per season guess, at most, some team could probably offer him the full MLE......I know, that seems like a lot....but I have always thought that some GM out there is gonna overpay for a Big Man like Foster that is one of the best Offensive Rebounders out there that not only can defend other Big Men but does the "little things" that everyone else forgets to do.

But you also have to remember, I'm a worst-case scenario type of guy...hence the higher estimate. Either way, even if it was $6.5 mil a season....I have no problem with that.....if there's a Player that I HAD to overpay.....it's Foster. He's a good guy to have as a veteran player that can help Mentor Roy and be a good lockerroom leader.

Smoothdave1
10-10-2008, 07:46 PM
My guess is that Jeff's deal is for 2 years/9 million (4.5m a year) and may have taken a slight hometown discount to stay with Indy. He knows he's in the later stages of his career and is in the last year of his "BIG NBA contract". Foster lives in Indy year round, wants to be here and I'm sure his agent knew this and got a deal done.

JayRedd
10-10-2008, 07:50 PM
We don't know the specifics about the extension, but assuming it's something between $11-$13 million over two years, then we're fine. Marginally overpaying a guy by like $1.5 million* is irrelevant if what you're paying for is guaranteed production. That's not what gets you into cap trouble. Overpaying by like $4-$6 million for expected production that never materializes that kills you (e.g., Tinsley, Marcus Banks, Adonal Foyle, Larry Hughes, Croshere, Raef Lafrentz ).





* And I'm not even saying that $6.5 is too much for Jeff...Just trying to say that for those who think he's only worth $4.5-5 million, it's no big deal and won't affect our flexibility if he's getting a tad more than that. We're definitely getting somewhere around $5 million worth of rebounds guaranteed for two more years...we know that...the exact figure is just semantics.

BlueNGold
10-10-2008, 08:01 PM
Re-signing Jeff and sending Shawne packing on a friday makes for a pretty good day. Now, to complete the final cleansing cycle, we need a new home for Jamaal and a new contract for Granger.

Better preseason news than the past couple years...

ABADays
10-10-2008, 09:03 PM
Jeff's done OK for himself and earned every cent he has made with this franchise. Good to see he will still be around and, hopefully, retire a Pacer.

MillerTime
10-10-2008, 09:55 PM
im glad they extended Foster. That was needed

Will Galen
10-10-2008, 10:02 PM
Jeff's making $5.5m this year. I would say the Pacers gave him a ten percent raise not compounded. That would be $6,050,000 next year, and $6,600,000 his last year. Total, $12,650,000.

Ramitt
10-10-2008, 11:11 PM
This is great news, Foster is a good guy and hard worker. So far I am pleased with what Larry is doing. Of course time will tell.

croz24
10-10-2008, 11:19 PM
foster had more value imo as an expiring contract

Anthem
10-10-2008, 11:24 PM
But none for Granger?

BlueNGold
10-10-2008, 11:50 PM
foster had more value imo as an expiring contract

Foster is a good investment in a down market. He can play either C or PF and do it pretty well. Anyone like that does not come for 3M/yr....so we got him at a decent price.

Of the proven players on the team, he is probably behind only Granger, Ford and Dunleavy in terms of value. JMHO...

croz24
10-11-2008, 12:02 AM
Foster is a good investment in a down market. He can play either C or PF and do it pretty well. Anyone like that does not come for 3M/yr....so we got him at a decent price.

Of the proven players on the team, he is probably behind only Granger, Ford and Dunleavy in terms of value. JMHO...

i just see his value as a GREAT trade asset. foster is useless on a losing team imo. i actually feel bad for the guy and what he's had to put up with since 2001.

docpaul
10-11-2008, 12:14 AM
Jeff's making $5.5m this year. I would say the Pacers gave him a ten percent raise not compounded. That would be $6,050,000 next year, and $6,600,000 his last year. Total, $12,650,000.

Yup... pretty much:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3637019

Veteran center Jeff Foster (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=250) signed a two-year extension worth $12.7 million, ESPN.com has learned.

Major Cold
10-11-2008, 12:15 AM
I guess the ECF trips sucks.

croz24
10-11-2008, 12:25 AM
I guess the ECF trips sucks.

not sure if you're referring to my comment or not but how can you not feel bad for foster and what he's been put through since 2001?

Plax80
10-11-2008, 12:38 AM
This is great news, Foster is a good guy and hard worker. So far I am pleased with what Larry is doing. Of course time will tell.

This has been a horrific offseason.

Unless your idea of a good offseason is to become a 24 win team (bright side) and to give away your most talented player in the process.

duke dynamite
10-11-2008, 12:46 AM
This has been a horrific offseason.

Unless your idea of a good offseason is to become a 24 win team (bright side) and to give away your most talented player in the process.
What are you talking about!?

The Pacers Offseason > Horrific

Pacers
10-11-2008, 12:47 AM
When did we get rid of Danny Granger?

In other news, did you know that Foster is #1 among active players in Offensive Rebounding Percentage? I have no idea exactly what that is, but it sounds important and Jeff's the best at it.

Also, I just found out (hopefully I'm not the last, though I probably am) that Foster was originally drafted by Golden State and traded here for Vonteego Cummings and a future first rounder that the Warriors then used to draft Troy Murphy.

duke dynamite
10-11-2008, 01:11 AM
Forgot who they used that draft pick on. But man, what a quinkydink!

MillerTime
10-11-2008, 05:16 AM
this was something that had to be done! Shawne out and Foster staying longer. Good job Bird.

Man Bird has done so much this offseason. I cant remember another GM moving all these kinds of players. We see a lot of new faces this year. Ford, Rush, Hibbert, Jack, McBob, Rasho, Baston (who has been here before), Jones, and Croshere (who has been a long time Pacers before)

CableKC
10-11-2008, 06:57 AM
Yup... pretty much:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3637019

Veteran center Jeff Foster (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=250) signed a two-year extension worth $12.7 million, ESPN.com has learned.
That's what I've been thinking. It has to be as much as the likely MLE or Foster would have just waited til the offseason for the FA market.

Again, I know it's a little too much.....but I'm okay with that. IMHO.....he's worth it...especially since it's a 2 year deal.

count55
10-11-2008, 08:23 AM
Jeff's making $5.5m this year. I would say the Pacers gave him a ten percent raise not compounded. That would be $6,050,000 next year, and $6,600,000 his last year. Total, $12,650,000.


Yup... pretty much:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3637019

Veteran center Jeff Foster (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=250) signed a two-year extension worth $12.7 million, ESPN.com has learned.


That's what I've been thinking. It has to be as much as the likely MLE or Foster would have just waited til the offseason for the FA market.

Again, I know it's a little too much.....but I'm okay with that. IMHO.....he's worth it...especially since it's a 2 year deal.

OK...that makes some sense...that's the max raise for a 2-yr extension (I'd been caught up in the Danny extension, which has no real "max raise %", that I'd forgotten vet extensions couldn't be higher than 10.5% of the last year.

It's basically right at MLE, and I think basically at market value. Even if it's slight above, I refer you back to Jay Redd's earlier post on overpaying.

rexnom
10-11-2008, 11:19 AM
Wait. So shouldn't we extend Jack too? Wouldn't that be less than his cap hold?

CableKC
10-11-2008, 11:23 AM
Wait. So shouldn't we extend Jack too? Wouldn't that be less than his cap hold?
I would think that Bird wants to see more of Jack in our offense before committing ot him. Unlike Granger and Foster....we have only seen Jack play in 2 preseason games so far.

rexnom
10-11-2008, 11:27 AM
I would think that Bird wants to see more of Jack in our offense before committing ot him. Unlike Granger and Foster....we have only seen Jack play in 2 preseason games so far.
That makes sense, but then again, if we can get Jack for a value under his cap hold and somehow pull of a favorable Tinsley trade then we might be more than MLE players next summer. Right? Or is my math just off right now?

count55
10-11-2008, 01:48 PM
Wait. So shouldn't we extend Jack too? Wouldn't that be less than his cap hold?

Yes...Jack's cap hold would be $6 million, while I'd expect his extention to be in the $3.5 to $5mm range, as a start. However...


I would think that Bird wants to see more of Jack in our offense before committing ot him. Unlike Granger and Foster....we have only seen Jack play in 2 preseason games so far.

I'd agree that we're leaning towards keeping him, but may not quite be ready to commit. However, if you could get an extension of something like 3 yrs, $12mm, I would lock him up.


That makes sense, but then again, if we can get Jack for a value under his cap hold and somehow pull of a favorable Tinsley trade then we might be more than MLE players next summer. Right? Or is my math just off right now?

Here's the basic deal. If the Pacers don't move Tinsley, or don't reduce the salary impact on next year in a Tinsley deal, the Pacers will have roughly $47.9mm in guaranteed contracts. Danny's cap hold will be about $7.0mm, and let's assume a caphold for our first round pick of about $2.0mm.

47.9 plus 7.0 plus 2.0 puts us at about 56.9mm. I'd expect the cap to be between 61 & 62mm next year, so that leaves us only $5-6mm of space.

Effectively, we've already locked ourselves out of the above MLE market by extending Jeff.

Caveat: If we can make the Denver Deal (Atkins/Hunter for Tinsley), then that would clear an additional $2.7mm of cap space, which could make us a player above the MLE.

However, if we do anything with Jack other than renouncing his rights, then we're basically out of cap space.

Unless we unload one of the big contracts for an expiring (Murph, Junior, Tinsley), we will not be big players in Free Agency next year. Any major acquisitions will come through the Draft, trades, or the MLE.

EDIT: I should note that all of the figures above are prior to looking at JJ's cap hold or re-signing him. The same is true with Rasho, McBob, Graham, and Baston

Anthem
10-11-2008, 03:43 PM
Effectively, we've already locked ourselves out of the above MLE market by extending Jeff.
Which is fine with me. We don't need to start adding a ton of salary next year anyway. I'd rather make small moves** until Troy/Dun/Foster expire.

And by "moves" I mean "salary additions."

BlueNGold
10-11-2008, 03:53 PM
i just see his value as a GREAT trade asset. foster is useless on a losing team imo. i actually feel bad for the guy and what he's had to put up with since 2001.

You may have a good point here. Are we rebuilding, or retooling?

However, I think Larry Bird is more committed to returning to the playoffs and winning back the fans. Jeff helps him do that...

count55
10-11-2008, 04:31 PM
Which is fine with me. We don't need to start adding a ton of salary next year anyway. I'd rather make small moves** until Troy/Dun/Foster expire.

And by "moves" I mean "salary additions."

I didn't mean to imply that it was a bad thing. The truth of the matter is that I've always believed we were out of that market, because I've always believed we'd need to keep some of those FA's (specifically, JJ & Jeff), so the capholds were there anyway.

ChicagoJ
10-11-2008, 05:45 PM
i just see his value as a GREAT trade asset. foster is useless on a losing team imo. i actually feel bad for the guy and what he's had to put up with since 2001.

He's not overly useful on a winning team, either. First big off the bench, perhaps? His coaches don't like to play him more than >24 mpg in his prime and his spot is always open for competition. I give him credit for working hard and winning back his spot, but it also says something when someone of his (lack of) skill level is one of our key rotation players.

For what you said, I don't mind the team rewarding him for his hard work over the years. This particular contract is unlikely to be a major disruption the rebuilding of the front court that needs to take place whether he is shipped away to acquire new pieces or just takes a seat on the bench. Its basically an MLE-type of contract, and those are still easily tradeable.

I think this is a financial favor from the Pacers to Jeff, and it is unlikely to change any of the potential trade scenarios for Jeff as the season progresses. In fact, if the ultimate goal is to trade him for a first-round draft pick, this extension probably helps increase the number of teams that would consider trading for him. I still think he'll finish the season on the Spurs roster.

count55
10-11-2008, 05:50 PM
I think this is a financial favor from the Pacers to Jeff, and it is unlikely to change any of the potential trade scenarios for Jeff as the season progresses. In fact, if the ultimate goal is to trade him for a first-round draft pick, this extension probably helps increase the number of teams that would consider trading for him. I still think he'll finish the season on the Spurs roster.

I would tend to agree. I think his trade value is about the same, though perhaps a little less for those teams currently shooting the "2010" heroine into their veins.

ChicagoJ
10-11-2008, 06:03 PM
Right, but he's not valuable to them in the first place. He's valuable to the Spurs, Celtics, maybe the Lakers, the Rockets if they haven't already turned into a bandaged, looney joke by the trade deadline - teams that are looking to win a title in the next two seasons. Not teams looking to get into the 2010 sweepstakes.

count55
10-11-2008, 06:55 PM
Right, but he's not valuable to them in the first place. He's valuable to the Spurs, Celtics, maybe the Lakers, the Rockets if they haven't already turned into a bandaged, looney joke by the trade deadline - teams that are looking to win a title in the next two seasons. Not teams looking to get into the 2010 sweepstakes.

Perhaps my original post didn't properly convey my contempt for the 2010 strategy.

I know you're not a huge fan of Jeff Foster, but I think he's a good guy to have as a contributor to your team. I think the teams that you mention above would be pleased to have him, even 15-20 minutes a game.

ChicagoJ
10-11-2008, 06:58 PM
I'd be okay with him on the Pacers at 15mpg, in a limited role. I don't think he's a scrub, I don't think he's a starter. He needs a defined role.

I don't mind his hustle, of course, I just don't like his defense. Or his inability to capitalize on his ORs.

Plax80
10-11-2008, 11:50 PM
You may have a good point here. Are we rebuilding, or retooling?

However, I think Larry Bird is more committed to returning to the playoffs and winning back the fans. Jeff helps him do that...

Clearly we are rebuilding.

We have two players that would see 25 + minutes on a good team.

We have three PGs that would get 12-15 minutes on a good team.

We have three Cs that would see 8-12 minutes on a good team.

In other words, we are three top players away from being a good team. Not "nice" additions.........."all-stars or near all-stars.

Good luck averaging 10,000/night at Conseco this season for a 25 win team.

Plax80
10-11-2008, 11:58 PM
You may have a good point here. Are we rebuilding, or retooling?

However, I think Larry Bird is more committed to returning to the playoffs and winning back the fans. Jeff helps him do that...

Playoffs ???

Playoffs ???

Playoffs ???

You got be kiddin me

Anthem
10-12-2008, 12:30 PM
Good luck averaging 10,000/night at Conseco this season for a 25 win team.
I'll take the over on that... what are we betting?