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View Full Version : Rush, Kansas may lose national championship title.



HC
10-09-2008, 11:20 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3635128

Ouch, perhaps this is why Arthur slid so far on draft night.

rexnom
10-09-2008, 11:24 PM
Kansas athletic department officials have said they believe that the investigation into Arthur would not affect the school's basketball program.Non-issue...especially since it's Arthur's high school grades.

EDIT: Or at least it should be a non-issue. I must profess ignorance in this college basketball matter here. Although I will say that it shouldn't really affect the Pacers much. Glad we didn't draft this guy.

Pacers
10-09-2008, 11:24 PM
Do you have to have a diploma to play in the NBA?

HC
10-09-2008, 11:26 PM
Quoted from article

"If the district finds Arthur did not have sufficient credits to graduate from high school, Kansas could have to forfeit any or all games involving him."

MillerTime
10-09-2008, 11:34 PM
WHAT! Ive never heard of anything like this. How dumb can Kansas be to accept a student who doesnt have the requirements to enter their school?

If they took the title back, who would get it?

Roaming Gnome
10-09-2008, 11:53 PM
WHAT! Ive never heard of anything like this. How dumb can Kansas be to accept a student who doesnt have the requirements to enter their school?

If they took the title back, who would get it?

How is it Kansas fault when all they ask for is a transcript that the high school gives them.

MillerTime
10-10-2008, 12:19 AM
How is it Kansas fault when all they ask for is a transcript that the high school gives them.

This is so weird. Normally your highschool will send the transcripts electronically to universities, not players. I wonder if the his highschool had something to do with the changing of the marks?

croz24
10-10-2008, 12:46 AM
the ncaa will do to kansas exactly what they did to bush and usc...NOTHING

Anthem
10-10-2008, 01:20 AM
The issue isn't the transcript... according to it the kid is clean. What's at issue is whether his HS doctored the transcript.

Sucks for Kansas... they didn't do anything wrong.

aceace
10-10-2008, 01:51 AM
If the Star has a story on this tomorrow the headline will read: "Teammate of Pacers Rush involved in grade scandal"

HeliumFear
10-10-2008, 02:00 AM
rofl jayhawks

NapTonius Monk
10-10-2008, 09:03 AM
Non-issue...especially since it's Arthur's high school grades.

EDIT: Or at least it should be a non-issue. I must profess ignorance in this college basketball matter here. Although I will say that it shouldn't really affect the Pacers much. Glad we didn't draft this guy.

I'm more concerned about the hotel Puff-a-thon at the rookie program than how he did in theater class. Other than that, I'd take him.

NuffSaid
10-10-2008, 11:53 AM
Do you have to have a diploma to play in the NBA?
I would hope so. I haven't come across anthing that addresses this in the NBA's CBA and none of us are privy to the NBA By-Laws. So, I couldn't tell what they say on this matter. Still, the assumption is that a player drafted straight out of high school would have received his high school diploma. But that's not the issue here although it could turn into a mess for the NBA real quick if the investigation reveals that Arthur's high school grades were, in fact, changed just to he could be recruited to Kasas (is that State or University?). That is the big issue for Kansas right now.

It is true that you don't have to be a high school graduate to attend college. Many students complete their GED and then go on to college. What's at stake for Arthur is whether or not his high school grades were "fabricated"...falsified...in order for Kansas to recruite him.

How is it Kansas fault when all they ask for is a transcript that the high school gives them.
See last paragrapha above, as well as the below paragraphs marked by an asterisk (*)...

WHAT! Ive never heard of anything like this. How dumb can Kansas be to accept a student who doesn't have the requirements to enter their school?
Dumb indeed! But again the question is whether or not Arthur's grades were changed and if so did Kansas know about it, and were they changed just so he could be recuited by Kansas? Those are the three fundamental questions that need to be answered.

*If Arthur's grades were changed and Kansas was aware of it, then Kansas should give up their NCAA title if Arthur was part of that championship team.

If Arthur's grades were changed and Kansas was not aware of it, then Kansas should give close consideration to giving up their NCAA title if Arthur was part of that championship team considering he was attending college under false pretenses.

*If Arthur's grades were changed and Kansas was involved in making those changes happen just so they could recruit Arthur, then absolutely Kansas should be stripped of their NCAA title and face other penalties as well.

If Arthur's grades are found to be legit, then this entire ordeal is moot.


If they took the title back, who would get it? The team that lost to them in the NCAA championship, of course.

Shade
10-10-2008, 11:58 AM
Sounds to me like Kansas likely did nothing wrong, so it would be silly for them to be punished.

NuffSaid
10-10-2008, 12:12 PM
Shade,

On the surface of it, I'd agree. Still, I think you'd have to let the investigation play itself out before coming to any conclusion.

Pacers
10-10-2008, 12:20 PM
I would hope so. I haven't come across anthing that addresses this in the NBA's CBA and none of us are privy to the NBA By-Laws. So, I couldn't tell what they say on this matter. Still, the assumption is that a player drafted straight out of high school would have received his high school diploma. But that's not the issue here although it could turn into a mess for the NBA real quick if the investigation reveals that Arthur's high school grades were, in fact, changed just to he could be recruited to Kasas (is that State or University?). That is the big issue for Kansas right now.

My point is that if his grades were falsified and he never graduated from high school, if a diploma is a requirement to play in the NBA, he would not be eligible to play now.


The team that lost to them in the NCAA championship, of course.

No. The title would be vacated.

Major Cold
10-10-2008, 12:23 PM
Then IU did nothing wrong. It was all Sampson.

count55
10-10-2008, 12:24 PM
The only comment on high school graduation is in this from Larry Coon:


There are rules regarding the minimum age for draft eligibility. A player can't play in the NBA unless he's been eligible for at least one draft (he doesn't have to actually be drafted, he just has to have been eligible). A player who is eligible for a draft must be at least 19 during the calendar year of that draft, and if a U.S. player, at least one year removed from high school. In addition, at least one of the following must be true:

The player has graduated from a U.S. four-year college or university prior to or during the year of the draft, and has no remaining NCAA eligibility.


The player is attending or has previously attended a U.S. four-year college or university, his original class has graduated prior to or during the year of the draft, and has no remaining NCAA eligibility.


The player attended high school in the U.S., did not attend college, and four years have elapsed since he graduated (or his class graduated, if he did not graduate).


The player has played as a professional outside the NBA.


The player has declared himself an "Early Entry" player.

This seems to indicate that a high school diploma is not required. What's unclear is what it takes to "declare yourself an early entry player". The first bolded rule seems to indicate that a non-graduate would have to wait until four years after his class had graduated. However, I'm not sure if the player who was 19+ and more than 1 year out of high school, but with out a diploma, could just say, "Hey, I'm an early entry player" and poof! he's eligible. (BTW...I would think the NBA would view a diploma and GED as interchangeable.)

In any case, I'm not entirely sure that it's necessary to have graduated High School to play in the NBA. It may be required, or it may make good sense, but I don't think it's indispensible.

NuffSaid
10-10-2008, 12:40 PM
Pacers,

Yours is an interesting hyperthetical, but in this case it's irrelevant since Arthur was a high school grade before entering college and was subsequently drafted by the NBA out of the college ranks. Nonetheless, if he did not graduate high school but did graduate college (his attendance by virtue of a GED or other academic requirements as outlined by said college) and was still drafted from the college ranks, his college degree would trump his high school diploma. So, here again, the question you pose would be moot. The only way your scenario would have merit is if Arther was drafted directly out of high school. I'd suspect the NBA would ensure to obtain a copy of both Arthur's high school diploma and his transcripts to verify his pro eligibility.

NuffSaid
10-10-2008, 12:42 PM
Count55,

Thanks for clearing up the high school eligibility question. Much appreciated.

Anthem
10-10-2008, 01:24 PM
Moot. Adj. deprived of practical significance : made abstract or purely academic.

"Mote" is a small bit of dust.

And there's only one T in Cincinnati.

Shade
10-10-2008, 01:51 PM
Then IU did nothing wrong. It was all Sampson.

Surely I don't need to explain how these two situations are nowhere near identical.

NuffSaid
10-10-2008, 01:51 PM
:p ... thanks for today's spelling lesson, Anthem. :p

LG33
10-10-2008, 01:55 PM
If all this is true, looks like I just won the NCAA bracket!

Shade
10-10-2008, 01:57 PM
If all this is true, looks like I just won the NCAA bracket!

Speaking of which, does this mean that Memphis gets the title?

And if so, do they have a public celebration?

Since86
10-10-2008, 02:00 PM
Shade,

On the surface of it, I'd agree. Still, I think you'd have to let the investigation play itself out before coming to any conclusion.

This isn't about Kansas, it's about his HS fudging his transcript. The article clearly states that the investigation into Arthur came about while they were investigating another athlete from that school. It's probably a prep school that just churns out D1 athletes one right after each other.

Kansas would get punished, if he was deemed ineligible, even if they didn't do anything wrong other than take the word of the transcript.

NuffSaid
10-10-2008, 02:20 PM
This isn't about Kansas, it's about his HS fudging his transcript.
You're right. The high school is the focus of the investigation, but Kansas is included by default because they accepted Arthur to their college/university to play basketball. Still, as I've said it's a matter of what Kansas did or didn't know, as well as how deeply involved they were, if at all, in Arthur's grades being changed, if they were changed.

At first glance, you'd think the high school would be the only academic institution to face punishment, but it really depends on how involved Kansas was in this matter to determine if they should received punishment, also. So, it's not just about the high school. Kansas could feel the ripple effect of the lower academic institution's wrong doing as well depending on what they knew upon recruiting Arthur. That's the key here, folks.

Had Arthur strictly been a walk-on to Kansas I don't think this would be such a big deal. But because Kansas recruiting him, it does matter. Read the article(s) again. It's doesn't read that Arther "attended" Kansas. It eludes to him as being "recruited" by Kansas. Big difference!!

"Arthur was one of the nation's top recruits out of high school."

"One of the nation's top recruits, Arthur was a key player on Kansas' national basketball championship..."

ABADays
10-10-2008, 02:26 PM
South Oak Cliff (and that area) has had similar issues in the past. Universities should be very wary of information received from that district.

Slick Pinkham
10-10-2008, 04:32 PM
Speaking of which, does this mean that Memphis gets the title?

And if so, do they have a public celebration?

I think it would mean that there was no champion and the title would be listed as "vacated".

Tht is what the NCAA record books say for the 2nd place team in Chris Webber's seasons at Michigan that were forfeited (1992, 1993), and a Villanova season in the 70s when a guy took money (Howard Porter, 1971).

BigMac
10-10-2008, 10:35 PM
the ncaa will do to kansas exactly what they did to bush and usc...NOTHING

No, with Brand as the NCAA President he'll "fire" him and then Brand will get a new higher profile, higher paying figurehead position that does nothing. Maybe U.S. Vice President or better yet, U.S. President (though those may not pay better than being President of the NCAA).