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Hicks
10-09-2008, 11:49 AM
I just looked at it on tape (I was there live).

Last night, I thought he'd just hit him in the chest and was quite confused as to why Ely was so mad.

However, now I see that he did pop him in the jaw or face, and I can appreciate Ely being upset about that.

Regardless, I still think Hibbert was not acting maliciously (no way to prove it either way, but I think we can all agree it wasn't OBVIOUSLY intentional), and I still think Ely should have been thrown out for his tantrum/body language/going after Hibbert.

Anthem
10-09-2008, 11:56 AM
Can anybody post the clip? I still haven't seen it.

Speed
10-09-2008, 11:56 AM
I just looked at it on tape (I was there live).

Last night, I thought he'd just hit him in the chest and was quite confused as to why Ely was so mad.

However, now I see that he did pop him in the jaw or face, and I can appreciate Ely being upset about that.

Regardless, I still think Hibbert was not acting maliciously (no way to prove it either way, but I think we can all agree it wasn't OBVIOUSLY intentional), and I still think Ely should have been thrown out for his tantrum/body language/going after Hibbert.

I think Ely will be fined for trying to instigate a fight. I'm not sure what else happens to Hibbert, I personally don't this it would warrant a suspension, just the normal fine associated with the ejection.

I hope he doesn't get suspended, I'm looking forward to seeing him play on Friday against Memphis. It will be my last chance to see him live before the season starts, which I'm not sure he'll even be in the rotation to start out this season.

OakMoses
10-09-2008, 11:57 AM
Hicks, I completely agree with you. If Ely hadn't freaked out the way he did, Hibbert probably would have gotten a flagrant and then the game would have moved on. Instead, Ely freaked out and, if I can read lips correctly, was repeating "I'll kill you" over and over again while trying to get at Hibbert. I was impressed with Roy's reaction to the situation. He stood his ground but was obviously trying to diffuse the situation by not reacting to Ely's idiotic behavior. I like that the 21-year-old rookie was acting like the adult in situation and the 28 year old veteran was acting like a 7th grade boy who's girlfriend just cheated on him.

pacerfreak
10-09-2008, 11:58 AM
I didn't think it was obvious. This may be a good thing for Roy, learning via preseason,that he could be, (because of the elevation of his elbows), potentially baited for an elbow, (and I'm not saying that was the case with this incident). I do agree that Ely should've been tossed as well.

JayRedd
10-09-2008, 12:10 PM
I just looked at it on tape (I was there live).

Link?

Major Cold
10-09-2008, 12:58 PM
I hope he is playing this friday.

Pacers
10-09-2008, 01:21 PM
I hope he doesn't get suspended, I'm looking forward to seeing him play on Friday against Memphis. It will be my last chance to see him live before the season starts, which I'm not sure he'll even be in the rotation to start out this season.


Eh? Friday's game is against Chicago in Fort Wayne, then Monday is at Memphis.

Then still two home games next week at Conseco.

MagicRat
10-09-2008, 01:24 PM
Hicks, I completely agree with you. If Ely hadn't freaked out the way he did, Hibbert probably would have gotten a flagrant and then the game would have moved on. Instead, Ely freaked out and, if I can read lips correctly, was repeating "I'll kill you" over and over again while trying to get at Hibbert. I was impressed with Roy's reaction to the situation. He stood his ground but was obviously trying to diffuse the situation by not reacting to Ely's idiotic behavior. I like that the 21-year-old rookie was acting like the adult in situation and the 28 year old veteran was acting like a 7th grade boy who's girlfriend just cheated on him.

Melvin wanted to respond to your post.....
http://chaos.able-towers.com/%7Emagicrat/elyfinger.jpg

McKeyFan
10-09-2008, 01:25 PM
Hicks, maybe you can turn this into a poll for those who saw it.

I did NOT think it was intentional.

Evan_The_Dude
10-09-2008, 02:00 PM
Melvin wanted to respond to your post.....
http://chaos.able-towers.com/%7Emagicrat/elyfinger.jpg

HAH I knew I wasn't seeing things when I thought I saw Ely flip off Hibbert. I believe Ely knew it wasn't intentional and he over reacted to get Hibbert kicked out. He flipped off Hibbert right after the ref signaled to toss Hibbert. The wink he gave along with the finger looks like it's to say "Welcome to the NBA rookie".

Hicks
10-09-2008, 02:47 PM
Link?

My own copy from Tivo.

I'm currently making the whole game into a video file, but once it's over I can make a small clip of the Hibbert/Ely thing and put it on YouTube.

*edit* Huh. It said it was only about 50+% done on the taskbar, but when I clicked to bring up the window, it's actually done. I should have the clip on YouTube shortly, in that case.

Hicks
10-09-2008, 02:58 PM
This will work whenever the video has been processed; I just uploaded it.

V9W8vftPMdg

JayRedd
10-09-2008, 03:13 PM
I don't think Roy should have gotten tossed, but there's definitely no reason Ely would have been. No one ever gets tossed for yelling at a dude and certainly not for "body language."

The one-finger salute will probably get him a fine though.

count55
10-09-2008, 03:14 PM
That looked like a nothing play to me...odds are he was booted because the refs figured, "Hey, it's a pre-season game. Why even **** with it at all?"

Honestly, it looked like there was more wind-up than follow-through. As if Roy thought about clearing space, started the motion, then stopped. There was a healthy amount of flop from Ely, there, IMO.

idioteque
10-09-2008, 03:16 PM
Ely is a chump and a bust with a history of questionable behavior. It's no surprise he reacted that way and Roy shouldn't have been penalized for it. Roy is 7 years younger but probably 7 times smarter than Melvin Ely.

HeliumFear
10-09-2008, 03:27 PM
Ely turned an accident into an incident.

Since86
10-09-2008, 03:52 PM
It looked intentional to me, but not intentional to the face. It looked like he lead with his elbows to clear space, and when you're that big your elbows are always gonna be face high to others.

We were taught at a very young age, to clear space by protecting the ball and sticking out your elbows. If they get caught, then they get caught. That's one of the dangers of bodying up.:shrug: It shouldn't have been that big of a deal, there was no malicious intent IMHO.

2minutes twowa
10-09-2008, 03:55 PM
Looked like more flop than flagrant. What an idiot!

Speed
10-09-2008, 04:02 PM
ahhh I see it now, way after the incident Roy pointed towards his chest and the Ely flipped him off. Ely had Jalen Rose muscles for a second there.

Pacersfan46
10-09-2008, 04:07 PM
That's a big flop from a big guy. I bet he got a major endorsement deal from Vagasil after the game was over though.

Great career move Ely! Better than any move you've made on the court before. :)

-- Steve --

McKeyFan
10-09-2008, 04:20 PM
It looked intentional to me, but not intentional to the face. It looked like he lead with his elbows to clear space, and when you're that big your elbows are always gonna be face high to others.

We were taught at a very young age, to clear space by protecting the ball and sticking out your elbows. If they get caught, then they get caught. That's one of the dangers of bodying up.:shrug: It shouldn't have been that big of a deal, there was no malicious intent IMHO.

Exactly.

I'll wait for the quote, but I bet you Roy says he had no intentions of elbowing the guy in the face. In the chest? Maybe.

I think the refs made a mistake ejecting him. Just placating a crybaby.

jeffg-body
10-09-2008, 04:26 PM
I think there was no malicous intent there. I wish it would have knocked the little puss out who made it into such a big deal. Everyone clears out space elbows out. If you don't like it, stay out of range.

GO!!!!!
10-09-2008, 04:52 PM
As far as it goes, it was more of a rook mistake and with any other defender would have been over in a second..

Like Evan said, welcome to the NBA Rook

Every player clears out and i hope he does it 100 more times this season...

Good learing experience for the Young Man

Anthem
10-09-2008, 04:53 PM
Looked like a flop to me. Seeing it for the first time, it didn't look NEARLY as bad as I expected.

I'd expected something real... that was nothing.

rexnom
10-09-2008, 05:02 PM
That looked like a nothing play to me...odds are he was booted because the refs figured, "Hey, it's a pre-season game. Why even **** with it at all?"

Honestly, it looked like there was more wind-up than follow-through. As if Roy thought about clearing space, started the motion, then stopped. There was a healthy amount of flop from Ely, there, IMO.
It's in situation like this that I wish that refs could give Ely a tech for flopping, like a yellow card in soccer. In this case, his flopping didn't just result in a TO for us but also in one of our players being ejected.

GrangerRanger
10-09-2008, 05:13 PM
Melvin is 28? Since when? He's 30. :D

Shade
10-09-2008, 05:18 PM
I don't think the elbow was intentional, but I'm not completely sure.

However, Roy does not have a history of doing this kind of thing, so let's see if it snowballs.

Btw, preseason or not, Ely should get suspended for that little extra bit of "body language" he sent Roy's way.

Justin Tyme
10-09-2008, 05:27 PM
Great career move Ely! Better than any move you've made on the court before. :)

-- Steve --


That's funny!

ChicagoJ
10-09-2008, 06:24 PM
It looked intentional to me, but not intentional to the face. It looked like he lead with his elbows to clear space, and when you're that big your elbows are always gonna be face high to others.

We were taught at a very young age, to clear space by protecting the ball and sticking out your elbows. If they get caught, then they get caught. That's one of the dangers of bodying up.:shrug: It shouldn't have been that big of a deal, there was no malicious intent IMHO.

That is nothing more than an offensive foul and change of possession. What is the NBA coming to? Next thing you know, James Harrison will get called for roughing the passer when he doesn't take another step and hits the QB while he is still completing his follow-through. Oh wait...

andreialta
10-09-2008, 06:42 PM
sheeeet. i do this all the time at open rec gym! lol u gotta be smart to make it look unintentional! lol

BlueNGold
10-09-2008, 07:26 PM
Hibbert was doing two things. He was attempting to clear some space due to the pressure and he was looking to pass the ball...and inadvertently hit him in the mouth. Big freaking deal. It all is so obvious because as soon as Hibbert hit him in the mouth, Hibbert pulled away. There was no follow through at all.

The NBA needs to take another look at the film.

BillS
10-09-2008, 07:57 PM
Hibbert was doing two things. He was attempting to clear some space due to the pressure and he was looking to pass the ball...and inadvertently hit him in the mouth. Big freaking deal. It all is so obvious because as soon as Hibbert hit him in the mouth, Hibbert pulled away. There was no follow through at all.

The NBA needs to take another look at the film.

Be careful what you ask for - they may suspend him 30 games for Playing While Pacer.

BlueNGold
10-09-2008, 08:11 PM
I really liked what I saw from Hibby. He is not afraid to be physical. No more soft centers on the Pacers. He is also calm cool and collected, yet will defend himself in needed. Very, very cool.

I wonder what would have happened had this been David Harrison. He may have gone off like a Roman candle. ...hmmm, on second thought it wouldn't have happened anyway because of his T-Rex arms. Good luck, but good riddance David.

heywoode
10-09-2008, 09:04 PM
I had to watch that elbow play about ten times to understand why Smelvin Ely got so heated. I guess I shouldn't have just typed that. I watched it at least ten times and I STILL don't know why he went off.

No doubt in my mind that Hibby didn't do it intentionally or with malicious intent, but when Ely started acting a fool, he wasn't gonna back down either. He reacted exactly how I would've wanted him to. Good for him.

All that being said, I would also like to add that I have never liked Melvin Ely. I think he's a scrub who has a hot temper and seems like he kind of has to play a bit dirty and physical to make up for his lack of skills. Plus he never really adds a bunch when he's in there.

I hope they take away the flagrant two that got Hibby ejected, and then also give Smelvin a hefty fine for acting a fool and for his bird flip. No class at all. The NBA needs to send a message.

Hicks
10-09-2008, 10:07 PM
I don't think Roy should have gotten tossed, but there's definitely no reason Ely would have been. No one ever gets tossed for yelling at a dude and certainly not for "body language."

The one-finger salute will probably get him a fine though.

It's not simply body language, it's going after a guy with clear intent to knock his block off. That's nonsense that shouldn't be tolerated.

Raskolnikov
10-10-2008, 05:19 AM
It's in situation like this that I wish that refs could give Ely a tech for flopping, like a yellow card in soccer. In this case, his flopping didn't just result in a TO for us but also in one of our players being ejected.
I think, like in soccer, it will unfortunately take some time before they'll start doing that. Like, it has to become an official ref policy or something. The disadvantage you have then is that sometimes a player will be punished twice, ie not only not get the foul, but also get a yellow card/tech for flopping (which can be very frustrating).

owl
10-10-2008, 06:59 AM
This incident reminds me of another rookie center entering the league and playing his first
game. Kent Benson was playing the Lakers and was playing against Jabbar and Kent
lays an elbow into Jabbars solar plexus. Jabbar stumbles backwards a little, thinks about and then just nails Kent in the head from behind with a nice big windup. Benson falls like a sack of potatoes, out cold and Jabbar has a broken hand. Welcome to the league Kent.

Doug
10-10-2008, 09:17 AM
How many times has Danny got smacked in the mouth with an elbow? How many times have those players gotten tossed?

MagicRat
10-10-2008, 10:05 AM
How many times has Danny got smacked in the mouth with an elbow? How many times have those players gotten tossed?

Seems to me like Dunleavy's the one that's always getting smacked in the mouth.....

I'll have to go back and watch it but I think Roy had fouled Ely on the previous play. Maybe that helped fuel his post-elbow antics.....

Doug
10-10-2008, 10:56 AM
Seems to me like Dunleavy's the one that's always getting smacked in the mouth.....

I remember Danny really getting popped a couple of times in his rookie year. Guys were really using their elbows to clear space. I'm not sure why it's different if Roy does it as opposed to, say, Kobe.



/actually, I know why it's different for Kobe. Bad example.

JayRedd
10-10-2008, 12:03 PM
Seems to me like Dunleavy's the one that's always getting smacked in the mouth.....

I'll have to go back and watch it but I think Roy had fouled Ely on the previous play. Maybe that helped fuel his post-elbow antics.....

Dunleavy took shots to the face in like 10 of the first 15 games last year.

NuffSaid
10-10-2008, 02:07 PM
It looked intentional to me, but not intentional to the face. It looked like he lead with his elbows to clear space, and when you're that big your elbows are always gonna be face high to others.

We were taught at a very young age, to clear space by protecting the ball and sticking out your elbows. If they get caught, then they get caught. That's one of the dangers of bodying up.:shrug: It shouldn't have been that big of a deal, there was no malicious intent IMHO.
Right and wrong.

I looked at the video again (DVR's are so sweet!) and Hibbert did use his elbows to clear space, but he also elevated his right elbow up toward Ely's face. It wasn't fast. It wasn't furious, but it was a clear movement toward the opposing player's head and that the refs won't tolerate....auto ejection!

(I do hate to bring it up again, but...) As I watched Ely prancing around the court in his makeshift fury, I had flashbacks to "that day". (Y'all know the day I'm talkin' 'bout.) I was glad to see Hibbert get ejected before something far more sinister happened because it was obvious to me Ely was trying to bait him into a fight. Still, Hibbert was wrong. I doubt he'll get fined. The ejection should be punishment enough. After all, it's only pre-season. :o