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Cornrows
10-03-2008, 08:17 AM
Really hope this isn't his idea of a sick joke. Still waiting for other stories to hit wires.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10032008/sports/moresports/tinsley_dealt_to_nuggets_131908.htm

By PETER VECSEY

Posted: 3:17 am
October 3, 2008
Locked-out Pacers point Jamaal Tinsley was traded to the Nuggets for Chuckie Atkins and Stephen Hunter, The Post has learned.
The deal is contingent on Tinsley passing a physical. Chronically injured over the last four years (only once playing more than 42 games) and embroiled in violent encounters on three separate occasions (none of which he instigated), he spent all summer in Atlanta rehabbing his body and is said to be a great condition.
Denver assumes his $21M, 3-year debt. Atkins is due $3.24M and $3.48M while Hunter is guaranteed $3.86M and $3.69M. Less than half of their total salary remaining is guaranteed.

PBB
10-03-2008, 08:20 AM
Who will be on the roster now?

purdue101
10-03-2008, 08:30 AM
This is great value for us cap wise

Atkins is 3.5 off the books next summer and hunter is another 3.5 in two years.

I was just hoping to shed a year of tinsley's deal.

I also like Hunter as a big man who can block shots. He is a bigger version of Baston.

underwave
10-03-2008, 08:31 AM
isn't this guy famous for his news = jokes? why am i so familiar with his name. curious.

bellisimo
10-03-2008, 08:34 AM
Nuggets seems like a fitting place...

Major Cold
10-03-2008, 08:41 AM
until I hear from Indystar or any other credible source I won't get excited.

HC
10-03-2008, 08:43 AM
Wow, this is an awesome trade for us cap wise if it goes through. Lets keep our fingers crossed.

HC
10-03-2008, 08:45 AM
isn't this guy famous for his news = jokes? why am i so familiar with his name. curious.

Vescey also does stuff for ESPN, perhaps that is where you know him from?

Slick Pinkham
10-03-2008, 08:48 AM
what a wonderful deal, if true!

(not for what we got back, but for what we got rid of)

Jose Slaughter
10-03-2008, 08:50 AM
Great!

The bad news is we now have 17 guaranteed contracts.

Roaming Gnome
10-03-2008, 08:53 AM
Cautiously optimistic! :dancingba

Gyron
10-03-2008, 08:54 AM
Technical question.....

How can Atkins pass a physical when he just had surgery last week and is expected to be out for at least 6 weeks?

spreedom
10-03-2008, 08:59 AM
Cut Atkins... he's the odd man out at the point and will likely become disgruntled if he has to help with a rebuilding effort... then cut McBob and Cro and we're all set.

Major Cold
10-03-2008, 09:01 AM
Great!

The bad news is we now have 17 guaranteed contracts.

I know that means that we essentially pay for someone not to play. But at the most we pay them for only a year not to play for us. It is better than paying them 3 years not to play for us. And at a cheaper price right?

Unclebuck
10-03-2008, 09:03 AM
Vecsey has never done stuff for ESPN.

I think this is a great trade. Atkins is a really good backup. Hunter at one time was a athletic power forward (when I say at one time I just remember him from his Orlando days)

I would expect Atkins to be on the roster

Vince Neil
10-03-2008, 09:04 AM
Per Mike Wells blog this morning:


October 3, 2008
No Tinsley deal
Posted by Mike Wells

I've talked to a couple people - one from the Pacers camp and another from the Nuggets camp - this morning and both sides say point guard Jamaal Tinsley has not been traded to Denver for point guard Chucky Atkins and center Steven Hunter as reported by the New York Post.

The deal, if true, would have pushed the Pacers roster up to 17 players.

The Pacers have talked to the Nuggets, along with just about every other team in the NBA, about Tinsley, but they've yet to be able to come up with a deal.


http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/

Raskolnikov
10-03-2008, 09:04 AM
No deal says this link

http://www.pickaxeandroll.com/2008/10/3/627321/was-jamaal-tinsley-almost

Major Cold
10-03-2008, 09:11 AM
Peter V sucks. It is that simple. His "reports" should be banned on this forum and all of humanity if this is not true.

He is horrible at his job.

Hicks
10-03-2008, 09:15 AM
No deal says this link

http://www.pickaxeandroll.com/2008/10/3/627321/was-jamaal-tinsley-almost

According to that, it was agreed to, but, "Rex Chapman used his veto power to reject the deal."

Hicks
10-03-2008, 09:16 AM
It was a flat realization this morning for me: I first heard about this by reading Wells' blog and wondered what I'd missed.

Too bad. I would have been happy with this trade.

Unclebuck
10-03-2008, 09:29 AM
Peter V sucks. It is that simple. His "reports" should be banned on this forum and all of humanity if this is not true.

He is horrible at his job.

Obviously I disagree completely.

jcouts
10-03-2008, 09:30 AM
I just can't shake this stupid guy...

I'm a Pacers fan first, but a Nuggets fan second, since moving out here.

Well, he would fit right in on the squad out here. I'd be real curious to see how he did guarding SGs that Iverson can't match up with.

Jonathan
10-03-2008, 09:31 AM
This deal is mixed for me. '

Denver will be better with Tinsley than Atkins
They have AI, Carmelo, & Tinsley. Tinsley is a good player who would benefit having two top tier NBA players with him.

The Pacers will have 17 players under contract.
Do we send Hibbert to the D League?
Do we send Rush to the D League?
Do we make another trade?
Who do we cut?

I understand Tinsley will not play in the Blue N Gold again but it is more ideal we package him in a 2-1 deal.

Smoothdave1
10-03-2008, 09:45 AM
I think this deal may still have some life. People crap on Vescey, and he certainly hasn't been perfect throughout the years. However, he has broken a few stories regarding the Pacers, including Bender for AD and Isiah as the new head coach.

Who knows, maybe he is trying to drive up the price for Tinsley for Miami and Golden State (ala Donnie Walsh's old tricks)?

With that said, I could see something where the Pacers cut Hunter and he resigns with Denver to shore up their frontcourt. If the deal were to go through, I could also see the Pacers doing a few minor deals as well.

BKK
10-03-2008, 09:46 AM
I may be wrong but sending a player to the D-league does not mean freeing up a roster spot...
I have difficulties envisioning another multiplayer deal from our side without involving a player close to the core
I guess we'd cut Atkins right away, Cro and McBob. I know Hunter has been injured last season but I remember him as the guy who stole Dalembert's starting spot before being traded.
Anyway it seems the deal is dead (though it would have made sense for both sides), I hate freakin Vescey, the news had just made my day, dang!

BKK
10-03-2008, 09:48 AM
With that said, I could see something where the Pacers cut Hunter and he resigns with Denver to shore up their frontcourt.

I agree with this "Diop" move, I was thinking more of Atkins since the Nuggets will still be thin at PG but Hunter would do the trick too

underwave
10-03-2008, 09:52 AM
well... though it was a short hype i want to throw this in. just for fun.(i'll erase it if it's against the postin policy)
Daniels + Williams + Baston + Diener
for
Harrington + Belinelli

Tom White
10-03-2008, 09:54 AM
This deal is mixed for me. '

Denver will be better with Tinsley than Atkins
They have AI, Carmelo, & Tinsley. Tinsley is a good player who would benefit having two top tier NBA players with him.

The Pacers will have 17 players under contract.
Do we send Hibbert to the D League?
Do we send Rush to the D League?
Do we make another trade?
Who do we cut?

I understand Tinsley will not play in the Blue N Gold again but it is more ideal we package him in a 2-1 deal.

Sending a player to the D league does not reduce your roster count. They would still have a contract with the Pacers and count towards the fifteen man limit.

Speed
10-03-2008, 09:58 AM
This would be like buying Tinsley out for 12 million.

Very good deal, under the circumstances.

It doesn't make the team better now, but it does free up some money next year and the entire salary owed JT after two years.

Again, it doesn't make the team better now, but THAT wasn't going to happen, period.

The challenge is to not make the team worse now or in the near future (trading Shawne Williams or a future 1st round pick to move JT's contract) and potentially free up money to make the team better in the future (not taking back longer or equally as bad contracts/player(s)).

If this would go through, I think they cut Atkins immediately and either try to trade Hunter for a one year contract to a BIG starved team. Or they allow him to try to earn a spot, to try to beat out Maceo or Grahm. Or just cut him.

All of those scenarios are better than where they are now, which is paying JT to take up a valuable roster spot.

It makes you potentially better next year and the year after due to the additional flexibility financially. That is easily the best you could even hope for here.

count55
10-03-2008, 10:01 AM
I may be wrong but sending a player to the D-league does not mean freeing up a roster spot...
I have difficulties envisioning another multiplayer deal from our side without involving a player close to the core
I guess we'd cut Atkins right away, Cro and McBob. I know Hunter has been injured last season but I remember him as the guy who stole Dalembert's starting spot before being traded.
Anyway it seems the deal is dead (though it would have made sense for both sides), I hate freakin Vescey, the news had just made my day, dang!

You are not wrong...players in the D-League still retain a roster spot on the NBA team if they are under contract.

Also, while it's true this is probably over, the only silver lining I can offer is that the Toronto deal was reported to be dead as well.

jcouts
10-03-2008, 10:03 AM
SI Has Posted the same basic announcement, citing the Post as the source:

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/72452


Tinsley, Atkins in Pacers-Nuggets trade

Locked-out Pacers point Jamaal Tinsley was traded to the Nuggets for Chuckie Atkins and Stephen Hunter, The Post has learned. The deal is contingent on Tinsley passing a physical. Chronically injured over the last four years (only once playing more than 42 games) and embroiled in violent encounters on three separate occasions (none of which he instigated), he spent all summer in Atlanta rehabbing his body and is said to be a great condition. Denver assumes his $21M, 3-year debt. Atkins is due $3.24M and $3.48M while Hunter is guaranteed $3.86M and $3.69M. Less than half of their total salary remaining is guaranteed.

New York Post

obnoxiousmodesty
10-03-2008, 10:11 AM
ESPN has started scrolling this trade on their bottom line. Obviously not a definite corroboration, but noteworthy nonetheless.

I like the trade cap-wise if it goes through.

Mourning
10-03-2008, 10:24 AM
Great!

The bad news is we now have 17 guaranteed contracts.

What I was thinking off aswell :). But, the good FAR outweighs the bad here. IF true then another :thumbsup: for both Bird and his staff.

Ragnar
10-03-2008, 10:25 AM
I think the deal is great for all involved.

Jamaal would rather pass which would make all the players in Denver very happy. And the Pacers want a pg who will shoot.

Mourning
10-03-2008, 10:28 AM
Vecsey has never done stuff for ESPN.

I think this is a great trade. Atkins is a really good backup. Hunter at one time was a athletic power forward (when I say at one time I just remember him from his Orlando days)

I would expect Atkins to be on the roster

Especially with Diener injured for the coming months. I REALLY hope the deal does go through in some sort of shape or form.

RandyWrinkles
10-03-2008, 10:34 AM
I was going to post "It's on NBA.com it has to be legit!" But then it just took me to the Vecsey artcicle...lame.

Major Cold
10-03-2008, 10:39 AM
Will Bird or Morway address this "rumor".

PacerGuy
10-03-2008, 10:39 AM
If this holds up, I could see a follow-up trade. Miami still needs a big, & w/ the length & $'s of the players we would be willing to part with, I really could see something else happening too.
(it IS now on ESPN's bottom line - per the NY Post - ie: P.Vessey)

Roaming Gnome
10-03-2008, 10:42 AM
You are not wrong...players in the D-League still retain a roster spot on the NBA team if they are under contract.

Also, while it's true this is probably over, the only silver lining I can offer is that the Toronto deal was reported to be dead as well.

Yeah, it was quite dead. Wasn't it? ;)

Major Cold
10-03-2008, 10:44 AM
http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5700021922


Is Tinsley headed to Denver? (http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5700021922)
Oct 3, 2008
http://www.nba.com/media/homepage/enews_icon.gifPacers Insider e-News (http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/insider_registration.html) http://www.nba.com/media/pacers/insider_mobile_icon.jpgPacers Insider Mobile (http://www.nba.com/pacers/mobile.html) http://www.nba.com/media/bucks/tix_15_14.jpgTicket Info (http://www.nba.com/pacers/tickets/home.html)

Could today be the day?

According to a report by Peter Vecsey in the New York Post, the Pacers have agreed to trade Jamaal Tinsley to Denver in return for point guard Chucky Atkins and center-forward Steven Hunter. The deal reportedly is contingent on Tinsley passing a physical.

Pacers President Larry Bird has been working to trade Tinsley since the end of last season and reiterated his stance last week in his pre-training camp media briefing.

"What it really comes down to is I really like Jamaal as a person but it's better if we go in a different direction," Bird said. "We’re still talking to some teams and hopefully something can get done in the next few days. … He'll stay wherever he's at until we get something done."

Tinsley reportedly has been working out on his own in Atlanta while the Pacers have been in training camp. Denver has been on the market for a starting-quality point guard.

According to Vecsey's report, Atkins and Hunter each have two years remaining on their respective contracts, but less than half their remaining totals salaries are guaranteed. Tinsley reportedly has three years and $21 million left on his contract.

Atkins had arthroscopic surgery on his right knee on Sept. 24 to remove torn cartilage and is expected to be out five more weeks. The 34-year-old veteran has career averages of 10.6 points, 3.6 assists and .368 shooting from the 3-point line.

The 27-year-old Hunter is an athletic 7-foot, 240-pound big man known primarily as a shot-blocker. He has career averages of 4.7 points, 3.2 rebounds and 1.0 blocked shots.

Tinsley was once thought to be a rising star with the Pacers but has missed 165 games in the past five seasons with a variety of injuries. He has career averages of 10.4 points and 3.4 assists.

If the trade goes through as reported, the Pacers would have 18 players on their preseason roster.

count55
10-03-2008, 10:48 AM
Holy crap, from Brunner, I'd consider that a quasi-official acknowledgment from the Pacers FO that somethin's cookin'.

ChicagoJ
10-03-2008, 11:13 AM
With Atkins we would have three second-string PGs that could compete for the starting or backup spots. Interesting.

Although this works nicely for salary cap relief, our roster will contain 18 players, of which only two or three would start on a playoff-caliber team. But our third-stringers can beat up on just about everyone else's third-stringers.

Ah... the deception of "depth." One of the most popular myths in the alternate reality of NBA message boards.

Speed
10-03-2008, 11:16 AM
yep, something is cooking or done. I wonder if there are any picks or cash considerations. The only thing that would make this a bad deal for the Pacers is if there is a future #1 piick involved. I really don't Larry would do that though. We'll see.

I'm with you count, the Pacers M.O. is to completely deny things like this and they are not.

Where is Wells???

Come on!!!

Hicks
10-03-2008, 11:17 AM
Yes, I think it's happening now. It says on the front of Pacers.com, "Larry Bird had no comment on a report today from the New York Post that the Pacers have agreed to trade Jamaal Tinsley to Denver for Chucky Atkins and Stephen Hunter."

That's what it says along with the link to Bruno's blog posting, which is of course already posted above.

The fact that Pacers.com, NBA.com, SI, and ESPN are all willing to cite this as a source credible enough form them all to either comment/speculate on it, or report it as true, tells me this thing is probably happening.

Hicks
10-03-2008, 11:18 AM
three second-string PGs that could compete for the starting or backup spots

:rolleyes: Give this a rest, please. It's a half-truth being talked about like a whole truth. It's misleading and it is dismissive of TJ Ford's talent/ability.

Hicks
10-03-2008, 11:20 AM
yep, something is cooking or done. I wonder if there are any picks or cash considerations. The only thing that would make this a bad deal for the Pacers is if there is a future #1 piick involved. I really don't Larry would do that though. We'll see.

I'm with you count, the Pacers M.O. is to completely deny things like this and they are not.

Where is Wells???

Come on!!!

Wells already said early this morning in his own blog that he's hearing it's not true at least a person on both sides.

Hicks
10-03-2008, 11:21 AM
Moving on, and possibly setting a personal record for most posts in a row without another poster, I like this deal.

If we want/need him, Atkins is a good PG to have in reserve.

Stephen Hunter is Tyson Chandler Lite, which means we might want to keep him around as a backup to Hibbert down the line.

PacerGuy
10-03-2008, 11:25 AM
Although this works nicely for salary cap relief, our roster will contain 18 players, of which only two or three would start on a playoff-caliber team.
I know Bruno referred to 18 players, but if we now have 16, & this is a 2 for 1, would that not give us 17 & not 18? Am I missing something?

Speed
10-03-2008, 11:26 AM
Wells already said early this morning in his own blog that he's hearing it's not true at least a person on both sides.


I saw that earlier, but it just seems like this thing is a brush fire and he should maybe have a little inside info, which he never does.

Speed
10-03-2008, 11:27 AM
I know Bruno referred to 18 players, but if we now have 16, & this is a 2 for 1, would that not give us 17 & not 18? Am I missing something?

I saw that too, I think he is counting Austin. I'm just guessing though.

Unclebuck
10-03-2008, 11:30 AM
Wells already said early this morning in his own blog that he's hearing it's not true at least a person on both sides.

If you go back and re-read what Wells wrote, he only says that there is no deal between the two teams. He doesn't say the deal won't happen.

Hicks
10-03-2008, 11:30 AM
I know Bruno referred to 18 players, but if we now have 16, & this is a 2 for 1, would that not give us 17 & not 18? Am I missing something?

I think they're including Croshere.

Hicks
10-03-2008, 11:31 AM
I saw that earlier, but it just seems like this thing is a brush fire and he should maybe have a little inside info, which he never does.

Now, now. In fall fairness, he was the one who broke the JO to Toronto trade.

Hicks
10-03-2008, 11:32 AM
If you go back and re-read what Wells wrote, he only says that there is no deal between the two teams. He doesn't say the deal won't happen.

That's true, and I get the feeling that technicality is what is causing all of the "deal isn't done" reports to pop up from sources. They're all probably waiting for Tinsley to pass a physical.

Speed
10-03-2008, 11:32 AM
Moving on, and possibly setting a personal record for most posts in a row without another poster, I like this deal.

If we want/need him, Atkins is a good PG to have in reserve.

Stephen Hunter is Tyson Chandler Lite, which means we might want to keep him around as a backup to Hibbert down the line.

I have actually liked Hunter over the years, he is something this team doesn't have currently. A shot alterer/blocker. Everytime I have seen him play, he keeps guys thinking twice before driving the lane. Not to overstate it because he should never be a big minute guy on a good team, but he has a valued skill.

I'd be surprised if Chucky makes the team. He's 34 ish, coming off surgury, and I think they are comfortable with the group they have, even with Deiner injured. If Chucky was healthy, I would absolutely agree. They've carried 4 point guards before, but I just do not see it in this case. I guess it wouldn't be completely out of the range of possibility that they cut Deiner and kept Chucky, but I can't see it.

Smoothdave1
10-03-2008, 11:34 AM
The JO to Toronto deal was also shot down as just a rumor too. If we remember from Bird's press conference last week, he said that a deal could be done with Tinsley in few days.

As was mentioned, the fact that Pacers.com, ESPN, CNNSI, etc. would even note this is worth mentioning.

The fact of the matter is, the West is tough. A team like Denver is loaded with talent in AI, Melo, K-Mart, Nene, Smith,etc. But given what they have done the past few years (nothing), Rex knows his job could be on the line if they don't make any noise this year. That's why giving up guys like Atkins and Hunter are a low risk high reward for a team like Denver. If Tinsley doesn't pan out, they can trade him elsewhere. But theyre not giving up a core guy like Melo, AI, etc. to gain a starter who, when healthy, does have talent in Tinsley.

lafayettepacer
10-03-2008, 11:35 AM
Doesn't sound like it ever happened. This is from ESPN stating that it didn't take place:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3623836

Speed
10-03-2008, 11:38 AM
Doesn't sound like it ever happened. This is from ESPN stating that it didn't take place:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3623836

"It's erroneous," said Nuggets vice president of basketball operations Mark Warkentien of the report in Friday's New York Post. "Did Dewey beat Truman?"

According to the report in the Post, the deal was contingent upon Tinsley passing a physical.

But Warkentien emphatically denied that there was anything brewing between the two sides and said he'd been fielding calls from players asking him about the report all morning.

--------------

Wow, that is pretty definitive. However, maybe this is last call for any team that has interest.

Major Cold
10-03-2008, 11:39 AM
and Davis?
TJ
Dun
Granger
Murphy
Foster
Rasho
Hibbert
Daniels
Rush
Jack
Shawne
Graham
Diener
Baston
Tinsley
McBob
Croshere
Josh Davis
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/roster?team=ind

Thats 19

minus Tinsley=18
add Chucky and Hunter=20


Guaranteed contracts are all except Davis and Croshere.

18 guaranteed contracts.

Tom White
10-03-2008, 11:47 AM
"It's erroneous," said Nuggets vice president of basketball operations Mark Warkentien of the report in Friday's New York Post. "Did Dewey beat Truman?"

According to the report in the Post, the deal was contingent upon Tinsley passing a physical.

But Warkentien emphatically denied that there was anything brewing between the two sides and said he'd been fielding calls from players asking him about the report all morning.

--------------

Wow, that is pretty definitive. However, maybe this is last call for any team that has interest.

As soon as Ric Bucker denies it, we'll know the trade rumor is true.

count55
10-03-2008, 11:48 AM
With Atkins we would have three second-string PGs that could compete for the starting or backup spots. Interesting.

Yawn


Although this works nicely for salary cap relief, our roster will contain 18 players, of which only two or three would start on a playoff-caliber team. But our third-stringers can beat up on just about everyone else's third-stringers.

So, we've got 40 to 60% of a playoff caliber line up. I'm hopeful that Rush and Hibbert can develop to that level, and we can continue to add pieces


Ah... the deception of "depth." One of the most popular myths in the alternate reality of NBA message boards.

I'll admit I'm confused by this comment. Not it's meaning, but by it's placement in this context. This deal is purely about dumping Tinsley. If the deal goes through as reported here, it would also miraculously clear as much as $10.8mm in contract commitments for the Pacers. I'm not sure what depth has to do with this calculus.

rexnom
10-03-2008, 12:03 PM
With Atkins we would have three second-string PGs that could compete for the starting or backup spots. Interesting.

Totally agree. Atkins, Jack and Diener :D

NuffSaid
10-03-2008, 12:06 PM
I say make the trade happen. If anything, you put Atkins and Hunter on waivers, let them get paid and then allow another team to scoop them up.

End result: This trade is about the Pacers trying to save half of Tinsley's $21M. If you have to throw in Williams, Graham or Baston to sweeten the deal so be it. I'd try to keep McRoberts because I think he has more of an up-side than the other three.

Trader Joe
10-03-2008, 12:07 PM
I'd send them Shawne in a mili-second. Dump Shawne and Tinsley in the same deal? How could you say no to that?

ChicagoJ
10-03-2008, 12:08 PM
As soon as Ric Bucker denies it, we'll know the trade rumor is true.

Interesting point. Is Bucher still well-connected to the Nuggets like he used to be?

count55
10-03-2008, 12:13 PM
and Davis?
TJ
Dun
Granger
Murphy
Foster
Rasho
Hibbert
Daniels
Rush
Jack
Shawne
Graham
Diener
Baston
Tinsley
McBob
Croshere
Josh Davis
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/roster?team=ind

Thats 19

minus Tinsley=18
add Chucky and Hunter=20


Guaranteed contracts are all except Davis and Croshere.

18 guaranteed contracts.

17...You counted Davis twice.

CableKC
10-03-2008, 12:15 PM
OMG.....OMG........could this really be happening?

Major Cold
10-03-2008, 12:18 PM
17...You counted Davis twice.
thanks man I thought that was messed up.

McKeyFan
10-03-2008, 12:21 PM
Totally agree. Atkins, Jack and Diener :D

I actually thought that's what he meant.

duke dynamite
10-03-2008, 12:23 PM
SportsCenter's sidebar has a box coming up that says Jamaal Tinsley.

ChicagoJ
10-03-2008, 12:23 PM
Yawn

I think Ford is VASTLY overrated. Sue me. I can live with being in the minority. If he shows me something different this season, I'll live up to it. I've said since draft day that I think Jack has as good a chance to be the starter as Ford does.


So, we've got 40 to 60% of a playoff caliber line up. I'm hopeful that Rush and Hibbert can develop to that level, and we can continue to add pieces

I should have been more clear. I think Rush and Hibbert will get us to that point, eventually, along with Granger.


I'll admit I'm confused by this comment. Not it's meaning, but by it's placement in this context. This deal is purely about dumping Tinsley. If the deal goes through as reported here, it would also miraculously clear as much as $10.8mm in contract commitments for the Pacers. I'm not sure what depth has to do with this calculus.

I agree in terms of this deal. This is Tinsley for salary relief in the form of two guys that should not make the roster, or any NBA roster in 2008-09. Its not Tinsley for two guys that can play. I saw some people talking about these guys adding depth, maybe I overreacted. I like this deal exactly because it is Tinsley for cap relief and I'd have no problem cutting Hunter and giving an injury settlement to Atkins to get rid of him (my dislike of Chucky's game is even stronger than my dislike of TJ Ford's game, if you get my drift.)

From the feedback, I must not have been fully awake/ communicating well for my first post of the day. Sorry.

duke dynamite
10-03-2008, 12:27 PM
SportsCenter's sidebar has a box coming up that says Jamaal Tinsley.

They skipped it.

aceace
10-03-2008, 12:30 PM
I've called the "band".... their warming up. I got the Mayor on line 2 and the Pacemates on line 3. The Parade down Meridian starts 15 minutes after this goes through. Bird says he's in and we're using the Simons two Oldsmobile convertibles. Everyone that bought a Tinsley jersey will be required to wear it and we will burn them at parades end at Monument circle. Their looking for a volunteer to twirl the baton out front. Any volunteers? :-)

Major Cold
10-03-2008, 12:30 PM
Is this another incident where one source (Peter V) claims something and ESPN reports it, therefore everyone else does also?

Tom White
10-03-2008, 12:32 PM
Interesting point. Is Bucher still well-connected to the Nuggets like he used to be?

I don't know about his Denver connections, but he is wrong almost all the time. Remember the "Bryant will never play for the Lakers again." garbage?

Tom White
10-03-2008, 12:33 PM
They skipped it.

Well, that's no darn good! Could be a bad sign.

HC
10-03-2008, 12:38 PM
Vecsey has never done stuff for ESPN.

I think this is a great trade. Atkins is a really good backup. Hunter at one time was a athletic power forward (when I say at one time I just remember him from his Orlando days)

I would expect Atkins to be on the roster

I have seen him on ESPN on more than one occasion.

ChicagoJ
10-03-2008, 12:39 PM
I really doubt it. He's on TNT all the time, and prior to that he was on NBC. He's on NBATV a lot. He's never worked for ABC/ ESPN.

ChicagoJ
10-03-2008, 12:41 PM
I don't know about his Denver connections, but he is wrong almost all the time. Remember the "Bryant will never play for the Lakers again." garbage?

I believe, but I could be wrong on this, that Bucher was the Nuggets beat writer a long time ago and knows Issel and Kiki pretty well. But since they're long gone, I don't know if he still knows any insiders like Vecsey knows Donnie (which hardly makes Vecsey an authority on the Pacers anymore.)

HC
10-03-2008, 12:46 PM
I really doubt it. He's on TNT all the time, and prior to that he was on NBC. He's on NBATV a lot. He's never worked for ABC/ ESPN.

Now that you mention it, I am thinking it was TNT. I don't read the post, but I knew I had heard his name and seen him somewhere more than a few times throughout the years.

CableKC
10-03-2008, 12:47 PM
Regarding having 17-20 players on the roster.......I could care less if we have to eat about $4-5 mil in $$$ by cutting/waiving end of the bench players.

If the deal goes through as suggested....over the long term...we would have saved between $7 to 11 mil over the 3 years AND we would have cleared Tinsley's Salary from the 2010-2011 season. Sure, it will probably cost the Simons a couple of $$$....but we would have gotten rid of Tinsley while breaking up his contract into smaller parts ( Hunter has a $3.7 mil Player option in 2009-2010 season and Atkins has a $3.48 mil partially unguaranteed Contract in 2009-2010....both of which have value ). I don't like that we will have to likely waive 2-3 players......but it's not my $$$.....if this truly goes through...I don't see how we can't do this deal.

duke dynamite
10-03-2008, 12:52 PM
ESPN skips a lot of those things on the side of the screen all the time. If they don't follow it I don't see why they have it.

I am getting tired of all this Cubs crap. They suck. They choked. Lets move on.

CableKC
10-03-2008, 12:56 PM
Okay....I'm not going to get my hopes up TOO HIGH......but remember.....the JONeal trade started out like this.......some flurry of activities.....things seem to be dead.....then they were back on.

I'm only guessing here.......but unless there is some haggling of getting some Draft picks out of this for the Nuggets......I don't see what the holdup ( if there is any coming from the Indy side ). I'm looking at the trade from a Financial POV.....I don't see why the Nuggets would do this since they are absorbing about $7 to 11 mil in guaranteed $$$ over the course of the 3 seasons......so I can see them trying to dump some other bad contracts on us. The good thing about the Nuggets roster is that EVEN if they wanted to send out some other contracts to make the trade more balenced from a Financial POV ( as in sending out $21.7 mil of guaranteed $$$ ), there isn't much that they would want to part with that would make any real difference.

IF there is any truth to this rumor........I can honestly see the Nuggets asking for a future Draft pick....which could be a deal breaker in Bird's eyes.

Speed
10-03-2008, 01:02 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_10628519?source=rss


The Indiana Pacers have talked to Denver, along with many teams, about trading disgraced point guard Jamaal Tinsley, but a source close to the Nuggets said Friday no deal has been made.



The New York Post reported that Denver is sending guard Chucky Atkins and center Steven Hunter to the Pacers for Tinsley, but the source denied any deal has happened.

Hunter's agent, Mark Bartelstein, said he wouldn't rule out a future trade, but said, "I don't think there's anything close. I think there's a lot of talk this time of year, so I don't think it's any secret that the Nuggets are looking for a point guard and the Pacers would love to get an athletic big like Steven."

Tinsley has averaged 7.0 assists for his career, but has had numerous off-court incidents and run-ins with the law in recent seasons.

d_c
10-03-2008, 01:11 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_10628519?source=rss


The Indiana Pacers have talked to Denver, along with many teams, about trading disgraced point guard Jamaal Tinsley, but a source close to the Nuggets said Friday no deal has been made.



The New York Post reported that Denver is sending guard Chucky Atkins and center Steven Hunter to the Pacers for Tinsley, but the source denied any deal has happened.

Hunter's agent, Mark Bartelstein, said he wouldn't rule out a future trade, but said, "I don't think there's anything close. I think there's a lot of talk this time of year, so I don't think it's any secret that the Nuggets are looking for a point guard and the Pacers would love to get an athletic big like Steven."

Tinsley has averaged 7.0 assists for his career, but has had numerous off-court incidents and run-ins with the law in recent seasons.

And that pretty much suggests that they are having discussions or have had discussions, but that both sides can't/couldn't find a deal the could agree on.

Speed
10-03-2008, 01:19 PM
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/oct/03/reported-tinsley-deal-nuggets-shot-down/?partner=RSS

There appears to be no validity to a published report that the Nuggets are on the verge of acquiring point guard Jamaal Tinsley from Indiana for guard Chucky Atkins and center Steven Hunter.


A Nuggets source said a New York Post report Friday is inaccurate. And Hunter’s agent, Mark Bartelstein also refuted it.


“I don’t think so,’’ Bartelstein said of the Post report, saying Hunter will be at Denver's practice Friday. “I think there have been conversations because everybody knows the Nuggets are looking for a point guard and Indiana another big. But I don’t think anything is imminent or close.’’

Bartelstein was asked if there’s any chance the deal eventually could occur.
“I wouldn’t say there’s no chance, but it’s not close to happening,’’ he said. “There are conversations going on. Teams are talking to everybody.’’

The Post reported that Tinsley, who is being barred from Pacers training camp because of several off-court situations that have infuriated team management, would be dealt for Atkins and Hunter if he passes a physical. The first names for both Denver players (the Post wrote Chuckie and Stephen) were misspelled in the article.


The salaries do match up. Tinsley has three years and $21.45 million left on his contract, and will make $6.75 million this season.


Hunter and Atkins each has two years left on his contract. Hunter will make $3.86 this season and $3.7 million next season. Atkins will make $3.24 million this season and $3.48 next season, with only $760,000 of it guaranteed.


Also Friday, the Nuggets officially announced that forward Juwan Howard has been signed. Howard will practice Friday after signing his nonguaranteed deal.

--------------

Interesting, so nothing is close, if Hunter is going to be at practice today.

Also, I thought it was funny the writer takes a shot at Vescey with the misspelling.<!-- End story_body -->

d_c
10-03-2008, 01:25 PM
Also, I thought it was funny the writer takes a shot at Vescey with the misspelling and then says the salaries don't match. I think the writer is acting like the salaries don't match for the trade, but I do not think he is right. I think they match within the required 200k. Has anyone verified this or not.
<!-- End story_body -->

From what I read, the writer said the salaries match

Justin Tyme
10-03-2008, 01:27 PM
Basically, AI is a small SG, but how much PG does AI play for the Nuggests?

Speed
10-03-2008, 01:29 PM
From what I read, the writer said the salaries match

Wow, good call. I read that 5 times over and still read it wrong, thanks.

Justin Tyme
10-03-2008, 01:32 PM
From what I read, the writer said the salaries match


From the way it looks to me, the salaries match.

Shade
10-03-2008, 02:41 PM
http://www.charlierose.com/images_toplevel/guest_2647.jpg = http://samuelpablo.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/epic_fail.jpg

It is freaking HILARIOUS (and sad) that he got the names of BOTH Denver players wrong. Where's an editor when you need one? :lol:

CableKC
10-03-2008, 02:46 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some talk ( much like the oft-rumored trade talks with the Kings a week ago ) but that something came up to "kick the train off its tracks".

duke dynamite
10-03-2008, 02:59 PM
http://www.charlierose.com/images_toplevel/guest_2647.jpg = http://samuelpablo.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/epic_fail.jpg

It is freaking HILARIOUS (and sad) that he got the names of BOTH Denver players wrong. Where's an editor when you need one? :lol:

OMG....:lol:

GO!!!!!
10-03-2008, 05:42 PM
I don't see it happing.. Why would Denver acquire salary when they just dumped Camby to get rid of Salary?

I would have thought a PG would be the last thing they need...


Maybe i missed something on Page 2 & 3 of this thread

Speed
10-03-2008, 05:51 PM
Wells was on 1070, I just missed it, did anyone hear it?

diamonddave00
10-03-2008, 06:46 PM
Basicly he said he'd not be surprised if it happened by next week.

grace
10-03-2008, 06:48 PM
It is freaking HILARIOUS (and sad) that he got the names of BOTH Denver players wrong. Where's an editor when you need one? :lol:


I'll tell you what Kevin Lee said on the radio today. Vescey works for the New York Post. Being more a tabloid than a newspaper they're held to a different standard. That standard being if it sells they don't care if the facts are right or not.

Hicks
10-03-2008, 06:56 PM
Basicly he said he'd not be surprised if it happened by next week.

He also just updated his story on the star website saying that one of his sources claims it's a "strong possibility" to happen.

Shade
10-03-2008, 07:18 PM
http://www.charlierose.com/images_toplevel/guest_2647.jpg = http://samuelpablo.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/epic_fail.jpg

It is freaking HILARIOUS (and sad) that he got the names of BOTH Denver players wrong. Where's an editor when you need one? :lol:

What's really funny is that that particular episode happened to come on today.

What are the odds? :laugh:

Smoothdave1
10-03-2008, 07:33 PM
I have a feeling that Tinsley, Bird or maybe even Walsh leaked the story to Vescey. I mean, Vescey was just on the radio yesterday and hinted at a deal going down and it seems too much of a coincidence.

imawhat
10-03-2008, 07:34 PM
I would be ecstatic to get Chucky Atkins for Jamaal Tinsley, and that's w/o Hunter. Chucky will be a great veteran presence. Hunter will be a good backup.

I've wanted Atkins here for two years (just like J. Jack). Strangely enough, the Pacers have gotten just about every role player I've wanted on the team.


If it goes through, Bird/Morway definitely get an A from me for this offseason.

count55
10-03-2008, 08:08 PM
I don't see it happing.. Why would Denver acquire salary when they just dumped Camby to get rid of Salary?

I would have thought a PG would be the last thing they need...


Maybe i missed something on Page 2 & 3 of this thread

While I agree that it doesn't make a great deal of long term sense for Denver, this deal would actually be salary neutral for them this season.

Also, I believe they've been looking for a PG for a while. AI is really a 2.

count55
10-03-2008, 08:10 PM
This was posted on the Star about 7:45pm:


Pacers, Nuggets discuss deal for Jamaal Tinsley
By Mike Wells
Posted: October 3, 2008

Embattled point guard Jamaal Tinsley remained an Indiana Pacer on Friday, but there is a “strong possibility” he could be traded to the Denver Nuggets as early as Monday, a person familiar with the situation said.

A second person confirmed trade discussions were ongoing and said the Pacers will look for another partner if this deal falls through.


Both teams denied a report Friday morning that the deal already was done, pending Tinsley passing a physical.

“It’s erroneous,” Nuggets vice president of basketball operations Mark Warkentien told ESPN.com. “Did Dewey beat Truman?”

Pacers president Larry Bird issued a statement through a team spokesman saying they’re “not going to comment on trade rumors” involving their players.

The proposed deal would send point guard Chucky Atkins and center Steven Hunter to the Pacers. Both would have backup roles with the Pacers.

Atkins will make $3.2 million this season and $3.5 million next season, with $760,000 of it guaranteed. He is expected to be out until at least next month following right knee surgery last month. The 7-foot Hunter will make $3.9 million this season and $3.7 million next season. Tinsley will make $21.5 million over the next three seasons.

The trade would benefit both teams. The Nuggets need a point guard, and the Pacers would save money, get two players with shorter contracts and, more important, end their relationship with Tinsley.

The trade, however, also would give the Pacers 17 players under contract, two more than the NBA allows. They would have to release or trade two players by the Oct. 27 deadline. They would have to release or trade an additional player if Austin Croshere makes the team.

Tinsley’s past three seasons have been marked by injuries limiting his availability and several off-court issues that negatively impacted the franchise. Coach Jim O’Brien lost confidence in Tinsley after last season, and the Pacers told him to stay away from the team while they pursued a trade.

“Unfortunately for Jamaal, some things happened off the court that basically led to this situation,” said center Jeff Foster, who has been Tinsley’s teammate since 2001. “I think it’s best for both parties to go their separate ways, and I think he probably feels the same way. He’s probably anxious for something to happen and start new somewhere.”

aero
10-03-2008, 08:24 PM
If this deal gets done sooner rather then later i think there would be alot of people wanting to bump up the forum party sooner lol getting Tinsley out of her will make alot of people really really happy.

Hicks
10-03-2008, 08:35 PM
I hope it happens, but I remain pessimistic at this point.

El Pacero
10-03-2008, 08:46 PM
If this happens, please cut Atkins and show Diener some love. Thanks Larry.

316

DGPR
10-03-2008, 09:07 PM
Get it done Larry!

Slick Pinkham
10-03-2008, 09:16 PM
Think about about it this way, even if we immediately cut both Atkins and Hunter, it is a great trade

MillerTime
10-03-2008, 09:27 PM
Wow if this is true, its amazing for us. We get repief once for the 2010 FA. I just woke up and read all this. Its my bday right now, this is a good present from Bird :) IF TRUE....

Atkins probably wont get much mins, but Hunter could get some important mins. He played pretty good in PHX and Philly, I would love to see him get more mins.

The only thing that doesnt make sense is that Denver traded away Camby to get cap relief, why would they pick up Tinsley, who is locked in a contract for 3 years?

docpaul
10-03-2008, 09:28 PM
http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/child_praying_1.jpg

MillerTime
10-03-2008, 09:28 PM
Think about about it this way, even if we immediately cut both Atkins and Hunter, it is a great trade

Why cut Hunter when we're going to have to pay him anyways? We're better off cutting McRobters

CableKC
10-03-2008, 09:33 PM
Can someone change the Title of the Thread until something really happens?

There is no "done deal" until it actually happens.

ABADays
10-03-2008, 09:37 PM
I hope it happens, but I remain pessimistic at this point.

Shade? Is that you?

BlueNGold
10-03-2008, 09:41 PM
This would be a great move for the Pacers. The salary cut by itself is a gift worth millions.

We don't really need either of these guys, although an additional 7 footer usually doesn't hurt. Hunter could be a helpful presence in the middle at times.

Get it done. Keeping JT out of the EC is also a good idea...

Los Angeles
10-03-2008, 10:08 PM
If this happens, please cut Atkins and show Diener some love. Thanks Larry.

316

wow. I could have sworn Atkins had a better line than that. Get them. Cut them. Be done with it.

NuffSaid
10-03-2008, 10:22 PM
Think about about it this way, even if we immediately cut both Atkins and Hunter, it is a great trade
That's what I think will eventually happen. It just makes good dollars and "sense" to let them walk.

$21M...$10.5M (appx)...not hard to figure...GET 'ER DONE!!

CableKC
10-03-2008, 11:08 PM
wow. I could have sworn Atkins had a better line than that. Get them. Cut them. Be done with it.
I would much rather cut Graham, McRoberts then look to see if we can move anyone else.

imawhat
10-03-2008, 11:09 PM
wow. I could have sworn Atkins had a better line than that. Get them. Cut them. Be done with it.

What ouzome neglects to tell you is that Chucky was inactive for most of last season (24 total games played) with a hamstring injury. Prior to that, he was averaging over 13 pts and over 4.5 assists per game.

He's a very, very solid player, not unlike J. Jack. Not flashy at all, but more than gets the job done. At the very least, he'd be great to have around as a veteran. He was a key member of the Carlisle-coached Detroit teams, and won a championship in 03-04 (that'd make two players on our team with championship rings and two more from finals teams).

I love Diener, but I honestly believe there's enough room for both him and Atkins.

Doddage
10-03-2008, 11:12 PM
The part I love about this potential trade (if not getting rid of Tins) is Steven Hunter. The dude is a capable shot blocker and would be a great fit with Foster in the second unit. I envision a second unit like so that would have some great defensive potential:

Jack
Daniels
Rush
Hunter
Foster

I like that.

Aw Heck
10-03-2008, 11:21 PM
He's a very, very solid player, not unlike J. Jack. Not flashy at all, but more than gets the job done. At the very least, he'd be great to have around as a veteran. He was a key member of the Carlisle-coached Detroit teams, and won a championship in 03-04 (that'd make two players on our team with championship rings and two more from finals teams).
I agree with your description of Atkins, but he didn't win a championship in '04. He was sent to Boston that season in the Rasheed Wallace trade, if you recall. So he just missed out on the championship ring. There's no denying the veteran presence he would bring though.

imawhat
10-03-2008, 11:25 PM
Thanks for the correction. More ginkgo or more research is needed before I post...

Smoothdave1
10-03-2008, 11:30 PM
FWIW, the Rocky Mountain News (Denver newspaper) now has Tinsley listed on the Nuggets roster: http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=insidedenver&page=nba/teams/096/roster.aspx?id=096

BlueNGold
10-03-2008, 11:47 PM
Is Atkins a combo guard?

DGPR
10-04-2008, 12:26 AM
FWIW, the Rocky Mountain News (Denver newspaper) now has Tinsley listed on the Nuggets roster: http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=insidedenver&page=nba/teams/096/roster.aspx?id=096



I'm not getting excited yet.......... :happydanc

Hicks
10-04-2008, 12:32 AM
now why would they do that.....

DGPR
10-04-2008, 12:34 AM
Should we call ESPN?

duke dynamite
10-04-2008, 01:50 AM
FWIW, the Rocky Mountain News (Denver newspaper) now has Tinsley listed on the Nuggets roster: http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=insidedenver&page=nba/teams/096/roster.aspx?id=096

http://thadkomorowski.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/wtf-logo-big.jpg

Justin Tyme
10-04-2008, 02:48 AM
I would much rather cut Graham, McRoberts then look to see if we can move anyone else.

I'm still trying to figure out why the Pacers brought back Graham this year when they knew there wasn't any chance for him to play. Cheap roster filler I guess. When given the opportunity last year he showed he was capable of playing. Then his reward was to get no PT. Great rewards system JO'B got! For Graham's sake, I hope he gets cut and is picked up by a team that will honestly give him an opportunity to play.

Will Galen
10-04-2008, 04:27 AM
Well's is saying the rumored deal might go though on Monday, and the Rocky Mountain News has added Tins to the Nuggets roster. So . . .

Let's look at who we think would be cut if this deal goes though. I'll set up a chart for who would be at camp.

SF--6'8 Granger/ 6'6 Daniels/ 6'9 Williams / 6'10 McRoberts
PF--6'11 Murphy/ 6'11 Foster/ 6'10 Cro / 6'10 Baston/ 6'8 Davis
C---7'0 Rasho/ 7'2 Hibbert/ 7'0 Hunter
SG--6'8 Dun/ 6'6 Rush/ 6'6 Graham
PG--6'0 Ford/ 6'3 Jack/ 6'1 Diener/ 5'11 Atkins

I don't think those I have in blue have a chance at being cut.

I don't know what position Josh Davis played other than forward, but I don't think it matters since he would probably be the first cut. So we would have eight guys and five roster spots.

I think Hunter is a definite keeper. He's 26, has a cheap contract, and as someone else already said would be a good backup for Hibbert next year if Rasho doesn't return. So with one keeper and one cut, the roster looks like this. Seven guys and four roster spots.

SF--6'8 Granger/ 6'6 Daniels/ 6'9 Williams/ 6'10 McRoberts
PF--6'11 Murphy/ 6'11 Foster/ 6'10 Cro/ 6'10 Baston
C---7'0 Rasho/ 7'2 Hibbert/ 7'0 Hunter
SG--6'8 Dun/ 6'6 Rush/ 6'6 Graham
PG--6'0 Ford/ 6'3 Jack/ 6'1 Diener/ 5'11 Atkins

The Pacers probably don't want Williams anymore, and do we know that he even wants to be here? Dun said, I quote, "For the most part everyone wants to be here." I took it that he was talking about Rasho or Baston, or both, but Williams might rather be traded than be in Bird's doghouse. Regardless I think he will be traded or moved for a 2nd rounder.

McRoberts can probably play either forward position. And I think the Pacers probably want to take a long look at him. However, if they do that I think they will keep Cro too, just in case. Cro wouldn't cost much since the NBA will help pay his salary. That's leaves us.

SF--6'8 Granger/ 6'6 Daniels/ 6'10 McRoberts
PF--6'11 Murphy/ 6'11 Foster/ 6'10 Cro/ 6'10 Baston
C---7'0 Rasho/ 7'2 Hibbert/ 7'0 Hunter
SG--6'8 Dun/ 6'6 Rush/ 6'6 Graham
PG--6'0 Ford/ 6'3 Jack/ 6'1 Diener/ 5'11 Atkins

I think Baston wouldn't mind being cut or let go because he could go back to Europe, or maybe rejoin the Raptors. Doing that leaves are front court three deep at every position. That leaves us cutting one in the backcourt . . .

Graham can score, but how is his defense this year? If it's improved I doubt the Pacers want to cut him.

As for Diener and Atkins they are both injured. Since Atkins is 34, he's going to miss all of training camp, and next years salary is only partialy guareneeted, I look for him to be cut. Which would leave us at least three deep at evey position.

SF--6'8 Granger/ 6'6 Daniels/ 6'10 McRoberts
PF--6'11 Murphy/ 6'11 Foster/ 6'10 Cro
C---7'0 Rasho/ 7'2 Hibbert/ 7'0 Hunter
SG--6'8 Dun/ 6'6 Rush/ 6'6 Graham
PG--6'0 Ford/ 6'3 Jack/ 6'1 Diener

Of course they might cut Graham and keep both Diener and Atkins, which would give more time to Jack at shooting guard. In fact the more I think about it the more I think that might be what happens.

Mourning
10-04-2008, 04:56 AM
http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/child_praying_1.jpg

:lol:

Btw I didn't know Atkins was that horrible of a free throw shooter, sure that number is right? Anyway, not that I REALLY care I would still fervently support this trade.

Mourning
10-04-2008, 05:00 AM
Well's is saying the rumored deal might go though on Monday, and the Rocky Mountain News has added Tins to the Nuggets roster. So . . .

Let's look at who we think would be cut if this deal goes though. I'll set up a chart for who would be at camp.

SF--6'8 Granger/ 6'6 Daniels/ 6'9 Williams / 6'10 McRoberts
PF--6'11 Murphy/ 6'11 Foster/ 6'10 Cro / 6'10 Baston/ 6'8 Davis
C---7'0 Rasho/ 7'2 Hibbert/ 7'0 Hunter
SG--6'8 Dun/ 6'6 Rush/ 6'6 Graham
PG--6'0 Ford/ 6'3 Jack/ 6'1 Diener/ 5'11 Atkins

I don't think those I have in blue have a chance at being cut.

I don't know what position Josh Davis played other than forward, but I don't think it matters since he would probably be the first cut. So we would have eight guys and five roster spots.

I think Hunter is a definite keeper. He's 26, has a cheap contract, and as someone else already said would be a good backup for Hibbert next year if Rasho doesn't return. So with one keeper and one cut, the roster looks like this. Seven guys and four roster spots.

SF--6'8 Granger/ 6'6 Daniels/ 6'9 Williams/ 6'10 McRoberts
PF--6'11 Murphy/ 6'11 Foster/ 6'10 Cro/ 6'10 Baston
C---7'0 Rasho/ 7'2 Hibbert/ 7'0 Hunter
SG--6'8 Dun/ 6'6 Rush/ 6'6 Graham
PG--6'0 Ford/ 6'3 Jack/ 6'1 Diener/ 5'11 Atkins

The Pacers probably don't want Williams anymore, and do we know that he even wants to be here? Dun said, I quote, "For the most part everyone wants to be here." I took it that he was talking about Rasho or Baston, or both, but Williams might rather be traded than be in Bird's doghouse. Regardless I think he will be traded or moved for a 2nd rounder.

McRoberts can probably play either forward position. And I think the Pacers probably want to take a long look at him. However, if they do that I think they will keep Cro too, just in case. Cro wouldn't cost much since the NBA will help pay his salary. That's leaves us.

SF--6'8 Granger/ 6'6 Daniels/ 6'10 McRoberts
PF--6'11 Murphy/ 6'11 Foster/ 6'10 Cro/ 6'10 Baston
C---7'0 Rasho/ 7'2 Hibbert/ 7'0 Hunter
SG--6'8 Dun/ 6'6 Rush/ 6'6 Graham
PG--6'0 Ford/ 6'3 Jack/ 6'1 Diener/ 5'11 Atkins

I think Baston wouldn't mind being cut or let go because he could go back to Europe, or maybe rejoin the Raptors. Doing that leaves are front court three deep at every position. That leaves us cutting one in the backcourt . . .

Graham can score, but how is his defense this year? If it's improved I doubt the Pacers want to cut him.

As for Diener and Atkins they are both injured. Since Atkins is 34, he's going to miss all of training camp, and next years salary is only partialy guareneeted, I look for him to be cut. Which would leave us at least three deep at evey position.

SF--6'8 Granger/ 6'6 Daniels/ 6'10 McRoberts
PF--6'11 Murphy/ 6'11 Foster/ 6'10 Cro
C---7'0 Rasho/ 7'2 Hibbert/ 7'0 Hunter
SG--6'8 Dun/ 6'6 Rush/ 6'6 Graham
PG--6'0 Ford/ 6'3 Jack/ 6'1 Diener

Of course they might cut Graham and keep both Diener and Atkins, which would give more time to Jack at shooting guard. In fact the more I think about it the more I think that might be what happens.

Seems like a sound analysis, Will.

BKK
10-04-2008, 06:26 AM
I could see us trading Williams for a late first rd pick to a team planning to improve its bench or get younger...
The clear cuts I agree are Atkins, Davis and Baston.. after that it wil be an interesting battle...

Major Cold
10-04-2008, 07:49 AM
Didn't Steven Hunter always give JO fits on the block when he was with Philly? If so then this trade is worth it.

Speed
10-04-2008, 07:57 AM
Didn't Steven Hunter always give JO fits on the block when he was with Philly? If so then this trade is worth it.

I remember the same thing. He is one of a long line of guys who seemed to really play well against the Pacers.

count55
10-04-2008, 08:55 AM
I could see us trading Williams for a late first rd pick to a team planning to improve its bench or get younger...
The clear cuts I agree are Atkins, Davis and Baston.. after that it wil be an interesting battle...


The clear cuts are Davis (unguaranteed), Croshere (unguaranteed), Graham (Minimum), McRoberts (Minimum). Those players face an uphill battle to make the roster simply on economics. If they cannot demonstrate that they are clearly better than those who have guaranteed contracts, or those who have contracts paying them significantly more money, then they will be first out the door.

Both Diener and Hunter are safe from being cut for two reasons: (1) they have utility at their position and (2) they have contracts that extend beyond this year. Atkins may fall into this

It is my understanding through some people that I know that Herb Simon is absolutely opposed to cutting someone and still paying them. It's been done in the past, and they recognize that it's a very real possibility (likelihood?) this year, but supposedly the direction has been to make that an option of last resort. Again, the converation I had yesterday indicated that either (a) this trade was being held up in hopes they could complete a deal that would reduce rather than increase our roster, or (b) there were other small deals waiting on this deal to be completed.

(In the interest of full disclosure, this is a friend relaying a personal conversation with a local radio personality whose wife works for my friend. You can take or leave it as you please. It very much could be wrong, and Tinsley could still be a Pacer this time next week, but I think it makes enough sense to be used to help me, personally, sort through how the roster may shake out.)

I still think the most likely cuts are the ones above. If this trade comes to fruition, it will probably significantly damage Austin Croshere's chances of making the team. It's going to be difficult to make any deals because everybody's pretty much over the cap. Realistically, our best shot might be packaging one of our expirings (Foster, Rasho, Daniels) with Williams, Baston, or one or both of the min players (McBob, Graham) to pick up a single player along with perhaps a pick, but I'm hard pressed to come up with realistic scenarios.

Hunter, Williams, and Atkins are probably all tradeable, but we'd probably end up taking back a player, thus not accomplishing the goal. Neither Hunter nor Atkins can be packaged with anybody else until two months after the deal. It's a shame this couldn't have been expanded to get Miami involved, with Atkins & Hunter going to Miami, Tinsley heading to Denver, and either Haslem or Blount (preferrably Haslem, but either would do) coming here. That would've left us with 15 guaranteed salaries instead of 17.

Oh, well...it'll be a good problem to have if Tinsley's gone.

Hicks
10-04-2008, 08:57 AM
swap Williams back in for Graham in Will's post and that's what I am thinking.

D-BONE
10-04-2008, 09:46 AM
Why has Hunter gotten so little PT in Denver of late? You would think on a team with a short rotation of bigs that's also had to endure injuries that he'd at least have gotten some consistent back-up minutes.

Atkins has a lot of question marks for me. I agree with some of the positives that have been noted, but he's also really struggled with injuries lately and he's 34 or 35, plus the whole glut of PGs.

Not saying I wouldn't do this trade to part ways with Tins. Just wondering if either of these guys really offers us anything beyond the definite salary relief. I'd like to think Hunter, particularly, could still contribute given a consistent role and minutes.

Barring another trade, it will be interesting to see if Croshere or McRoberts could displace Hunter. Seems unlikely to me even if you rule out the guaranteed vs. non-guaranteed thing. I just don't think Cro has anything left at this point and I doubt McBob does either. Perhaps I will be surprised. Don't know that they could outdo Baston either.

Hicks
10-04-2008, 10:38 AM
Not only is Tinsley on the roster, they've made a profile page. Why on earth would you do that unless you're convinced it's happening?

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=insidedenver&page=nba/teams/096/playerstats.aspx?id=121,T=2

Speed
10-04-2008, 10:46 AM
Not only is Tinsley on the roster, they've made a profile page. Why on earth would you do that unless you're convinced it's happening?

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=insidedenver&page=nba/teams/096/playerstats.aspx?id=121,T=2


Wow, interesting. How do you think the www.sportsnetwork.com (http://www.sportsnetwork.com) is affiliated with the Rocky Mountain New?

CableKC
10-04-2008, 10:49 AM
I could see us trading Williams for a late first rd pick to a team planning to improve its bench or get younger...
The clear cuts I agree are Atkins, Davis and Baston.. after that it wil be an interesting battle...
I'm missing something....who is Davis?

Regarding who we'll cut.....I agree with count55.....if this happens :pray:.....I suspect that Bird will continue to look for trading partners since we have IMHO many trading assets at key positions ( PG and Center ) that have very reasonable contracts that are less then 2 years and are expiring.

How long do we have before we have to finalize rosters?

At worst....if we have to cut some players.....it will be the minimum contact players like Graham and McRoberts. I doubt that Atkins or Hunter would be cut since they have a combined 6+ mil in guaranteed $$$ this season.

IMHO....I'm guessing that we will look for another 3 for 2 or 2 for 1 deal then look to waive Graham and/or McRoberts.

count55
10-04-2008, 10:52 AM
Wow, interesting. How do you think the www.sportsnetwork.com (http://www.sportsnetwork.com) is affiliated with the Rocky Mountain New?

"Rocky Mountain News" is in the banner at the top of the page when you click the link.


I'm missing something....who is Davis?

Josh Davis...training camp fodder.

Smoothdave1
10-04-2008, 11:05 AM
My gut feeling is that the deal is done with Denver and Indy is essentially done and I suspect Jamaal is or is in route to Denver for a physical this weekend. I also think Larry and David are working a little OT this weekend on the phones trying to maybe get a 3rd team involved and to do a 2 for 1, 3 for 2 or 4 for 2 type of a deal to clear some roster spaces. My guess is that a deal will leak out and/or be announced this weekend or early next week.

A couple of things that seem to be more than a coincidence:

-- I really think Jamaal tipped off Vescey of the deal, perhaps as early as Wednesday or Thursday (Vescey was on 1070 the fan in Indy talking about what a great deal it would be for Denver on Thursday afternoon). My guess is that a tentative deal was in place and maybe a finalized deal was struck later Thursday/early Friday.

-- I also find it ironic that the Heat said that they were not going to sign Shaun Livingston and after the Tinsley deal leaked out Friday, the Heat went ahead and signed Livingston (almost as if they were in contention for JT and know he is headed to Denver and they settled on Shaun).

-- Denver signed free agent Juwon Howard to a deal on Friday morning -- the same day that the trade was leaked. Hmm, why would they sign Howard now? Perhaps because they knew they would need some additional depth and help in the front court?

-- I also found it interesting that Wells came out early Friday morning and said he talked to people who said no deal was going on, but then later in the day he updates his column and runs an article this morning saying a deal could be done as early as Monday. Perhaps he needed to speak to all of his sources?

-- Plus, as I posted before, the Rocky Mountain News has Tinsley listed as a member of the Nuggets and now he even is listed with a profile (as Hicks noted). It just all seems to be too much of a coincidence for me.

-- Karl apologized about the trade rumors during practice on Friday and both Atkins and Hunter did practice. However, I remember when we did the deal with Golden State and I saw an interview with Al the day of the trade and he mentioned that they had just finished practicing and was told by Carlisle to go see Larry Bird who told him of the trade

As I mentioned before, my guess is that Jamaal is in Denver and will be working out and taking a physical for the Nuggets this weekend while Bird and Morway try and find a 3rd team to unload some additional players. If the Pacers do a deal straight up for Atkins & Hunter, they cannot trade them for I think 90 days, which would force the Pacers to waive a few players. I also think Bird wants to keep Croshere around. Therefore, Bird is looking to flip one or both to a 3rd team. Stay tuned!

CableKC
10-04-2008, 11:15 AM
Josh Davis...training camp fodder.
Would he be #19 or #20?

I didn't even know he was in training camp.

I'm guessing he's #20.

Again....I'm thinking that the low-hanging fruit would be gone. Bird will try his best to move McRoberts+Graham along with some combination ( pick 3 ) of ( on a scale of preference being gone ) Shawne, Marquis, Baston, Rasho and/or Foster.

I would have to play with the #s to figure out how much $$$ we could take back. Since we would likely have some relatively easy Expiring Contract to move....I'm guessing that we would somehow get back a player with a 2 year contract ( at the very least ).

Speed
10-04-2008, 11:24 AM
Nice synopsis, Smothdave1!!!

kester99
10-04-2008, 12:34 PM
Would he be #19 or #20?

I didn't even know he was in training camp.

I'm guessing he's #20.


See Will Galen's post above...there would be 19, with Davis and Hunter and Atkins.

On the Denver Post putting Tinsley on the roster...it looks like the paper uses TSN to handle their sports pages on the web. TSN is out of Pennsylvania, as far as I can see on their website. They do show the deal as done. What I'm saying is that there's no local knowledge by the Denver paper that affected the site content.

JayRedd
10-04-2008, 01:02 PM
Smoothdave is a wise man. And smooth.

imawhat
10-04-2008, 01:03 PM
I think there's a 95% chance we'll have another trade before the start of training camp if the Tinsley deal goes through. I'm very intrigued to see who's next (could be some core players).

Hicks
10-04-2008, 01:14 PM
I just checked, and Chucky Atkins and Steven Hunter are listed as Pacers there, too:

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=insidedenver&page=nba/teams/100/roster.aspx?id=100

Speed
10-04-2008, 01:29 PM
I emailed Chris Tomasson, Nuggets/NBA Sports writer at the Rocky Mountain News and asked him about it and he says it is in error. Here is what he says:

Our Website people say they the roster stuff is farmed out to Sports Network, and we can’t control it. ........ Out Website people say they won’t return any calls to correct it. Sorry about the trouble.

Chris

Bball
10-04-2008, 03:23 PM
I emailed Chris Tomasson, Nuggets/NBA Sports writer at the Rocky Mountain News and asked him about it and he says it is in error. Here is what he says:

Our Website people say they the roster stuff is farmed out to Sports Network, and we can’t control it. ........ Out Website people say they won’t return any calls to correct it. Sorry about the trouble.

Chris

Ah yes... Plausible deniability.... ;)

Back and to the left

Back and to the left

Back and to the left

grace
10-04-2008, 03:39 PM
Why on earth would you do that unless you're convinced it's happening?

Because they're bored and want to see how much trouble they can cause?

d_c
10-04-2008, 04:45 PM
Because they're bored and want to see how much trouble they can cause?

Or because they just assumed it was happened when Vescey reported it and haven't bothered to change it since.

Major Cold
10-04-2008, 06:36 PM
Or because they just assumed it was happened when Vescey reported it and haven't bothered to change it since.

I would agree with this but there seemed to be a progression to the content of Tinsley. It showed him on the website roster. Then they had a player profile.

If they jumped the gun (hehe) and put Tinsley on the site when Peter V's article broke, then they would not have continued to elaborate on the thought of Tinsley joining the team. If they just had not gotten around to remove the content they would not have added to it.

My guess is they found out about it and the person in charge of the site is not as informed as we are to the situation.

BKK
10-04-2008, 07:32 PM
If they jumped the gun (hehe)

I got your back on this one :D

PacerGuy
10-04-2008, 09:00 PM
1.) I suggest adding Graham in the Den deal (making it Tinsley/ Graham for Hunter/ Atkins), if they will take him. After the deal & signing Howard, Den will still only have 13 roster spots filled. Graham could add cheap depth.

2.) IMHO, I think a Daniels/ Williams package would appeal to many, esp. to a team wanting cap space for '10. Both are expendable w/ the pieces we have - esp w/ us drafting Rush.
Just a thought - would AK47 in Utah be an option? Is he too costly w/ our cap situation, or w/ Tinsley being gone make that an option? I could see Utah wanting to make cap make room for Boozer & Okur who are FA's, & floor room to get Brewer more minutes. (A Rasho/Daniels/Williams for AK47/Almond deal works on paper & works for me! ;) ) Besides, Rasho is 1 & done & the other pieces are nothing to us. A Foster/AK/Granger/Rush/Ford team could "D" it up!

And... If this all happened, we would also be @ 15 players again! :happydanc

Speed
10-04-2008, 09:14 PM
1.) I suggest adding Graham in the Den deal (making it Tinsley/ Graham for Hunter/ Atkins), if they will take him. After the deal & signing Howard, Den will still only have 13 roster spots filled. Graham could add cheap depth.

2.) IMHO, I think a Daniels/ Williams package would appeal to many, esp. to a team wanting cap space for '10. Both are expendable w/ the pieces we have - esp w/ us drafting Rush.
Just a thought - would AK47 in Utah be an option? Is he too costly w/ our cap situation, or w/ Tinsley being gone make that an option? I could see Utah wanting to make cap make room for Boozer & Okur who are FA's, & floor room to get Brewer more minutes. (A Rasho/Daniels/Williams for AK47/Almond deal works on paper & works for me! ;) ) Besides, Rasho is 1 & done & the other pieces are nothing to us. A Foster/AK/Granger/Rush/Ford team could "D" it up!

And... If this all happened, we would also be @ 15 players again! :happydanc

I think some of this makes sense. Graham added to that deal I believe still works capwise and makes sense for both teams probably, at least for the Pacers it does. It would take care of one roster spot at least.

I'm a fan of AK47 even though he's tailed off in production, he's still a stat sheet stuffer. He's a good shot blocker too, which this team lacks. I think financially that Utah absolutely should do it, not court wise. If Indiana does it, it's your one big move though and it puts you over the Luxury threshold. Ak47 makes 15, 16.4, 17.8 over the next 3 years. Thats crazy. He averaged 11 points, 4.7 boards, 4 assists, 1.5 blocks, and 1.2 steals last year in 72 games. So Indiana should shouldn't do it for the salary alone and those numbers are decent, but when you look at his salary, they suck. When he was there "go to" guy and best player his number were alot better and he's still young at 27.

I like AK47, but his contract is toxic.

MillerTime
10-04-2008, 09:32 PM
I think some of this makes sense. Graham added to that deal I believe still works capwise and makes sense for both teams probably, at least for the Pacers it does. It would take care of one roster spot at least.

I'm a fan of AK47 even though he's tailed off in production, he's still a stat sheet stuffer. He's a good shot blocker too, which this team lacks. I think financially that Utah absolutely should do it, not court wise. If Indiana does it, it's your one big move though and it puts you over the Luxury threshold. Ak47 makes 15, 16.4, 17.8 over the next 3 years. Thats crazy. He averaged 11 points, 4.7 boards, 4 assists, 1.5 blocks, and 1.2 steals last year in 72 games. So Indiana should shouldn't do it for the salary alone and those numbers are decent, but when you look at his salary, they suck. When he was there "go to" guy and best player his number were alot better and he's still young at 27.

I like AK47, but his contract is toxic.

The trade does work with Graham http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2832~1024~26~1002&teams=7~7~11~11&te=&cash=, one thing to keep in mind is that Denver is also has too many on their roster also, so they're also trying to cut down players as we are. But regarding AK47, I would have to say, financially, we have to pass. Its just too much money for us to take on. Unless we're trading Murphy, we cant take on Ak47. Plus, I would rather have Murphy than Ak...

PacerGuy
10-04-2008, 10:28 PM
Ak47 makes 15, 16.4, 17.8 over the next 3 years. Thats crazy..... I like AK47, but his contract is toxic.

:eek:
I forgot about the elevation of the true toxicity of that contract - your right, I love AK & think he would be awsome here too, but thats too much (unless they take Murph instead of Rasho!).

MillerTime
11-09-2008, 10:43 AM
We probably dont want this deal no more because Hunter thinks hes career is done:


Nuggets center Steven Hunter, who is to have surgery this week, has admitted that he has thought about knee problems ending his career.

"Definitely, that thought is in the back of my mind," Hunter said Sunday. "But I’m going to try to stay optimistic. I’m going to try to stay positive."

Hunter has been out for the last month due to continued right knee inflammation.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/nov/08/nuggets-hunter-have-knee-surgery-season-and-career/?partner=RSS

Roaming Gnome
11-09-2008, 10:55 AM
Umm...The Nuggets probably forgot about Jamaal as soon as the ink dried on the Billups deal.

MillerTime
11-09-2008, 11:04 AM
Umm...The Nuggets probably forgot about Jamaal as soon as the ink dried on the Billups deal.

lol what I meant to say was...do you think Hunter's knee was the dead killer?

Roaming Gnome
11-09-2008, 11:22 AM
lol what I meant to say was...do you think Hunter's knee was the dead killer?

Nope, I think the length on Tinsley's contract was the deal killer. Even if Hunter and Atkins never played a second for the Pacers, the P's would be money ahead in the deal. I could see the Pacers not wanting to give up extra loot to get 2 players with bad "wheels".

Will Galen
11-09-2008, 11:32 AM
lol what I meant to say was...do you think Hunter's knee was the dead killer?

Actually that's not a bad question. It could have been.

Pacerized
11-09-2008, 11:33 AM
Everything the Nuggets do seems to be about cutting salary now. It makes you wonder what they were thinking when the traded for A.I. in the first place. They wouldn't have wanted to trade Hunter if there was a good chance he'd retire due to injury. Buying out McDyess when they needed the big man shows where their priorities are.

Pacers
11-09-2008, 11:42 AM
?? The quote doesn't say he thinks THIS knee injury is going to end his career, just that he's thought A knee injury could end his career. Everyone thinks about that.

Pacerized
11-09-2008, 11:59 AM
They don't need a big man because of Hunter's injury. They need a big man to replace Camby. McDyess is a lot better option the then Anderson as a 3rd. big.

Kegboy
11-09-2008, 12:01 PM
Just another nail in the "Vecsey is always right" coffin.

idioteque
11-09-2008, 12:03 PM
Whoever initially bumped this thread is evil.

Hicks
11-09-2008, 12:04 PM
Just another nail in the "Vecsey is always right" coffin.

Can we keep a record of this somewhere? Perhaps in the PDFAQ?

Artest/Peja - Right.
JO/Lakers - Wrong.
Tinsley/Nuggets - Wrong.

What others are there that involve the Indiana Pacers?

indyman37
11-09-2008, 01:43 PM
Was he part of the Iverson to Indiana a while back? I can't remember...

MillerTime
11-09-2008, 08:52 PM
Everything the Nuggets do seems to be about cutting salary now. It makes you wonder what they were thinking when the traded for A.I. in the first place. They wouldn't have wanted to trade Hunter if there was a good chance he'd retire due to injury. Buying out McDyess when they needed the big man shows where their priorities are.

Really? Because they traded AI, who is a $20 million expirer, for Billups who has like $40 million left on his contract

Naptown_Seth
11-10-2008, 12:14 AM
Artest/Peja - Right.
Wait a second...which time are you counting. ;)

Sadly his list of "called shots" is way longer than 3. And you know I get that these guys hear stuff cooking that we never know about after it goes sour, but my problem is that this a'hole rips off articles like it's a done deal when a credible writer knows damn sure it isn't.

Personally I think PV is a pawn being used (willingly) by several GMs and agents to stir the pot and bring the public into the mix in order to pressure one side into taking action.

pacergod2
11-10-2008, 01:10 PM
Absolutely. The media is a GM's best friend. Easy to manipulate. Helps put pressure on other GM's. With as much as GM's talk and nothing comes of it... guys like Vescey SHOULD be wrong more than they are right. It's the point that guys like Vescey hear SOMETHING. They are the ones that get us toads on these message boards going. That's the information that we get excited about and that's Vescey's job. He should be wrong more than he is right.

PS- The Nuggets are realigning their roster in an attempt to get under the luxury tax threshold for this year. So therefore, they are in cost cutting mode, just in the short term. Their cap situation actually isn't that bad looking 3 years out (long term in NBA standards). They have done an excellent job realizing the team they had couldn't win and are making the necessary adjustments to save themselves ALOT of money this year and at the same time putting together a team that has a better chance of winning in the long-term.

d_c
11-10-2008, 02:44 PM
Their cap situation actually isn't that bad looking 3 years out (long term in NBA standards). They have done an excellent job realizing the team they had couldn't win and are making the necessary adjustments to save themselves ALOT of money this year and at the same time putting together a team that has a better chance of winning in the long-term.

They're only saving money this year because they gave away Camby and took back no salary in return. Honestly, if you were a fan of the Nuggets, would you really be all that excited if the owner saved some $ by giving a useful player away for nothing?

As far as the long term, they traded away Iverson's expiring deal for Billups' remaining ~ $36M and still have to pay for whatever McDyess' buyout is. They'll probably compete better this year because Billups is a better fit next to Carmelo, but in the long term they are still capped out and Billups is 32 years old. I'd give their trade about a C+.

Fool
11-10-2008, 03:04 PM
Yeah, giving away a starting center is an easy way to seriously drop your cap number.

Hicks
11-10-2008, 04:57 PM
Yeah, giving away a starting center is an easy way to seriously drop your cap number.

Unless you take Scot Pollard back. :doh:

BPump33
11-10-2008, 04:59 PM
Unless you take Scot Pollard back. :doh:

Scot Pollard was worth his salary in comedic value alone......:sarcasm:

duke dynamite
11-11-2008, 01:43 PM
Scot Pollard was worth his salary in comedic value alone......:sarcasm:
Yeah, if it weren't for him driving the freakin' huge Ford Bronco and the giant cigar in his mouth...omg, picturing that still makes me laugh.