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View Full Version : A slight dissapointment



Peck
10-03-2008, 01:27 AM
Ok by no means do I want to start off the season on a down note but I want to express one small dissapointment so far in the pre-season. Well it's not really not just in the pre-season it's more of an overall thing.

I am really dissapointed that we are beginning the third season of Shawne Williams career and he is already an after thought. Let's be honest even if there was a glowing piece in the paper about him almost everybody would assume that it was a puff p.r. piece to make everyone feel comfortable with him.

It's just a real dang shame that he allowed himself to get into this position. I never bought into the hype that he was going to be better than Granger but I honestly thought that by this season he would be a lock for our 6th man spot. As it stands I don't even know where he is in the rotation. In truth if he had done some physical work he should also be considered for our p.f. spot.

I would really have liked to have turned on the news and heard O'Brien raving about how Shawne was the hardest worker in camp or how he is pushing everybody to the next level. But with his history, even if this were said, I'm afraid I would be skeptical.

It's not a downer on the team, per say. I just am dissapointed because this time two seasons ago I honestly thought that by now he would not only be on his way but would be dang close to arriving.

croz24
10-03-2008, 01:39 AM
not sure we can place 100% of the blame on shawne himself. no, he has not put himself in a position to succeed on the court based on his mentality, how he chooses to spend his time off the court, and who he associates himself with. however, rick and shawne's teammates haven't exactly been helpful in shawne's transition from college to the nba...if there was ever a system shawne could flourish in, it'd be job's, so we'll see...

duke dynamite
10-03-2008, 04:44 AM
Shade, are we still on the Williams wagon?

HC
10-03-2008, 08:50 AM
Shawne Williams obviously lacks good judgement skills, as well as a fair amount of common sense.

Major Cold
10-03-2008, 08:54 AM
I think because of his history it would be better if Shawne was traded for as much as we can get for him. He and Daniels might entice someone.

Unclebuck
10-03-2008, 09:32 AM
I think it is just premature to draw a conclusion here based upon 3 days of training camp of which none of us have seen a second of. lets see if he plays OK during the preseason games

Will Galen
10-03-2008, 09:46 AM
I thinki it is just premature to draw a conclusion here based upon 3 days of training camp of which one of us have seen a second of. lets see if he plays OK during the preseason games

Yeah, not many people can describe much of what they saw in just a second.

Who was it that got to see that second of training camp though?

(giggle,giggle,snort)

McKeyFan
10-03-2008, 10:02 AM
I had the same feeling . . . a year ago. But few agreed.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=34197

ChicagoJ
10-03-2008, 11:07 AM
Shawne's biggest problem is that he would have been a stretch at #25 in the draft, let alone #17. Somebody fell in love with that damn P-word again. He'd be a college senior now, right? If he had chosen a different path (which would include keeping himself academically eligible, which I doubt that he could do), he probably would have played himself out of Calipari's rotation and completely out of the draft by now.

We blew it. But that draft wasn't very good after about #15, so if we can't find anyone to take him off our hands we should just let his contract expire and be done with him.

JayRedd
10-03-2008, 11:18 AM
I've consistently wondered what people see in him.

He obviously has the potential to be a decent back of the rotation guy (ala Luke Walton, Matt Barnes, Ime Udoka, or Bostjan Nachbar type impact) and Jay is clearly delerious if he thinks the kid wouldn't be a 30 mpg guy in Conference USA at this point...but the idea of him being a starter in this League, let alone an actual difference maker, has honestly never really crossed my mind while watching him play.

ChicagoJ
10-03-2008, 11:51 AM
I think he would have followed the same path that Jon Bender and Bracey Wright forged.

The more they played, the worse they got.

Bender was a HS lottery pick that played his way to obscurity.

Wright would have been a HS lottery pick but he went to college and spent each of the four seasons lowering his draft status - all the way to being a second rounder.

I think those are the apporiate comparisons. Now, I see your point, Bracey Wright was a 30-mpg guy every year in the Big Ten. But he also showed everybody why he wouldn't amount to anything in the pros.

I'm not sure he's a 30-mpg guy on a national finalist team, though. Maybe a bench guy that gets a 10-14 minute burn.

JayRedd
10-03-2008, 11:55 AM
I see where you're coming from...The previous was just part of my mision to stamp out hyperbole. There is no greater threat to the American family.

ChicagoJ
10-03-2008, 12:57 PM
But I live for hyperbole. What will I ever post if I can't make over-the-top criticisms of [pick one: Carlisle/Bird, Foster, zone defense, ajbry/ SJax, Stephen A. Smith, anyone that disparages Chuck Person or Joey Porter, I/M grammar, fat women showing off their tattoos, Cover-2, or any other topics or off-topics.]

Shade
10-03-2008, 05:39 PM
Shade, are we still on the Williams wagon?

Right now I'd say it has a flat tire.

I still think Shawne has a lot of talent and will be a very good player, IF he can get his **** together. But the latest incident tells me that, though he may be a good kid, he has very poor judgment.

Shade
10-03-2008, 05:41 PM
Who was it that got to see that second of training camp though?

:wave:

And McRoberts sucked during it.

El Pacero
10-03-2008, 09:40 PM
:wave:

And McRoberts sucked during it.

Didn't Shawne suck two out of three games?

imawhat
10-03-2008, 11:22 PM
Ok by no means do I want to start off the season on a down note but I want to express one small dissapointment so far in the pre-season. Well it's not really not just in the pre-season it's more of an overall thing.

I am really dissapointed that we are beginning the third season of Shawne Williams career and he is already an after thought. Let's be honest even if there was a glowing piece in the paper about him almost everybody would assume that it was a puff p.r. piece to make everyone feel comfortable with him.

It's just a real dang shame that he allowed himself to get into this position. I never bought into the hype that he was going to be better than Granger but I honestly thought that by this season he would be a lock for our 6th man spot. As it stands I don't even know where he is in the rotation. In truth if he had done some physical work he should also be considered for our p.f. spot.

I would really have liked to have turned on the news and heard O'Brien raving about how Shawne was the hardest worker in camp or how he is pushing everybody to the next level. But with his history, even if this were said, I'm afraid I would be skeptical.

It's not a downer on the team, per say. I just am dissapointed because this time two seasons ago I honestly thought that by now he would not only be on his way but would be dang close to arriving.


As it stands right now, the only other player I've been more disappointed with was Bender (through little fault of his own).

Shawne clearly has more ability than anyone else on the team, and I still believe that. He has a great shot, can drive, post up, pass, rebound, he's active...there is very little he can't do. But he doesn't appear to have the focus and drive, and that's what is going to separate him from Granger.

I'll admit to being one of the people who thought we should trade Granger before trading Shawne, but I've definitely changed my stance (without considering value we could get in return). It all started mid season last year when he stopped receiving playing time in favor of more time for Murph and Daniels. He lost a lot of confidence and never truly recovered.

To be honest, I 100% expect him to be gone before the start of the season, whether it's via trade or release. I'd love to see him get his act together somewhere else, but I don't think he'll ever mature.

Bball
10-04-2008, 02:23 AM
I think Shawne's play has regressed (at least last year, obviously I haven't seen him play this year). I thought last season he looked somewhere between lost and uninterested.

-Bball

Speed
10-04-2008, 09:45 AM
On a semi related note, Obie said on Friday that Marquis Daniels would get 30 minutes a night if the season were to start today. This would cut down on Williams or BRush being in the rotation I think. Unless Shawne is intended to play minutes at the PF rotation.

http://www.1070thefan.com/insider/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10009861

count55
10-04-2008, 09:51 AM
On a semi related note, Obie said on Friday that Marquis Daniels would get 30 minutes a night if the season were to start today. This would cut down on Williams or BRush being in the rotation I think. Unless Shawne is intended to play minutes at the PF rotation.

http://www.1070thefan.com/insider/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10009861

This is the single most discouraging thing I think that I could possibly hear, short of "Danny Granger's run off to join the Hungarian circus" or "In the interest of a real training camp battle, we've decided to give Jamaal another shot at the starting job."

Speed
10-04-2008, 09:57 AM
This is the single most discouraging thing I think that I could possibly hear, short of "Danny Granger's run off to join the Hungarian circus" or "In the interest of a real training camp battle, we've decided to give Jamaal another shot at the starting job."

I find it interesting, part of me hopes Marquis really has maybe got it and is ready to consistently contribute from his off season work. The other part of me thinks that Marquis hasn't changed but no one else has stepped up to take some minutes.

Either way, I tend to agree with you to an extent. I'd rather B Rush get some minutes under his belt or to see if Shawne can take another step in his progression. Playing Marquis 30 minutes in November doesn't make you a better team in April, nor does it help let you know what you'll have 2 years from now.

Hicks
10-04-2008, 10:39 AM
Well, hopefully they view Rush and Daniels as both being capable of playing the 2 or 3. If that's the case, and Shawne is out of the picture, there are plenty of minutes to be had.

count55
10-04-2008, 10:54 AM
Yeah, my discouragement is surrounding the threat in PT to both Rush and Jack, not Williams.

My disappointment in Williams is another matter entirely.

LoneGranger33
10-04-2008, 11:11 AM
I agree with count55. I've had nightmares about Marquis Daniels playing a large role on this squad. Am I willing to give the guy one more chance? Just barely. Though I'd rather not, if given the choice.

ChicagoJ
10-04-2008, 11:40 AM
In all of my "give minutes to Jack, Rush, Granger and Hibbert" rants, I've never contemplated Daniels as part of the mix.

My estimate of 29 wins this season and 38 next season may both be waayyyyy too high if Rush has to sit on the bench and watch Daniels play.

Just as I don't like the idea of either Granger or Dunleavy playing SG, I don't think either Rush or Daniels would be very effective at SF.

- - - - - - - - -

I sincerely believe this comment was made to showcase Daniels for inclusion in a trade. I don't see any purpose in playing Daniels, Williams or Foster this season and think they are worth more to the Pacers in a trade (even for draft picks) than to take minutes from the young core that will be here in coming seasons.

McKeyFan
10-04-2008, 12:08 PM
Couldn't it just mean that Rush has no experience, has had a couple of days to learn systems, and "today" Marquis is a whole lot better?

JOB may simply be trying to motivate Rush.

JayRedd
10-04-2008, 01:07 PM
Obie said on Friday that Marquis Daniels would get 30 minutes a night if the season were to start today.

Lord, beer me strength.

Anthem
10-04-2008, 03:55 PM
I sincerely believe this comment was made to showcase Daniels for inclusion in a trade.
I sure hope so.

Naptown_Seth
10-04-2008, 05:36 PM
I've consistently wondered what people see in him.

He obviously has the potential to be a decent back of the rotation guy (ala Luke Walton, Matt Barnes, Ime Udoka, or Bostjan Nachbar type impact) and Jay is clearly delerious if he thinks the kid wouldn't be a 30 mpg guy in Conference USA at this point...but the idea of him being a starter in this League, let alone an actual difference maker, has honestly never really crossed my mind while watching him play.
I'm a big fan. He's extremely athletic going to the rim, more so than Granger, and has been the best break finisher on the team. A lot of guys running the fast break have struggled when it's even mildly defended but Shawne has no problems changing tempo or giving it that extra pop on the step or jump to get over/past them for the throw down or at least protected layup.

Then add to this a great outside jumper and general good athletic ability on both ends and what you have is a guy that looks similar to Danny but just painfully weak when it comes to game awareness. Heck, he's even shown more confidence with his own game than Danny did in his first two seasons.

Let's keep in mind that Shawne is still well behind Danny. He was a one and done, not a 4 year, and he came out a year after Danny also. I really think he could be coached into something and I think either JOB or Bird agree with that view. I think Bird's motivation in possibly moving him is to just be done with all the PR issues. I'm surprised he hasn't pushed to dump Quis more too.

Naptown_Seth
10-04-2008, 05:42 PM
I think Shawne's play has regressed (at least last year, obviously I haven't seen him play this year). I thought last season he looked somewhere between lost and uninterested.
Hard not to think that the off court stuff was having an impact, and not just his own PR situation. If that dude was wedging into his life and compromising his situation it had to bother him at least a little. Everyone was so quick to see Shawne as driving to Memphis to pick up a killer that he helped with a murder and then hide him out as one of his best boys, sneaking food to him and helping lie to the FBI or something. Maybe the dude was popping into his life ala Entourage and while semi-tolerant of it for old time's sake he was also struggling with what to do in his own mind.

People get put in compromising situations all the time. It's uncomfortable and tough to know what to do. Even more when you are that age.

Of course if he just keeps flattening out or going backward I'd be the first to admit it didn't work out and he flopped a bit, though let's not get nuts with a #17 pick. They aren't usually a Granger quality player.

imawhat
10-11-2008, 12:41 PM
To be honest, I 100% expect him to be gone before the start of the season, whether it's via trade or release. I'd love to see him get his act together somewhere else, but I don't think he'll ever mature.

::waves goodbye::

rexnom
10-11-2008, 01:53 PM
Couldn't it just mean that Rush has no experience, has had a couple of days to learn systems, and "today" Marquis is a whole lot better?

JOB may simply be trying to motivate Rush.
Obie reminds me of the "literal doctor" on Arrested Development. Let's take him with a grain of salt. Today he could come out and say "today Brandon Rush looks like he should be playing 35 minutes/game." Yeah, sure, but all of that could change in one day. Frankly, I enjoy the fact that Obie is honest and he seems to have a truly meritocratic system of earning playing time. Maybe his meritocracy goes to far and it's a bit short-sighted but at the end of the day, we got these rooks to compete this year, not as projects to develop them. I don't see this system as any different from the way with which we dealt with Danny Granger's development and he turned ok so far.

Don't worry about Rush or Roy getting minutes. We're talking about the same coach who at their press conference basically interrupted and admonished them because they were too passive about getting playing time. He clearly wants them to compete and get playing team.

As for Quis, I'm perplexed by his situation. He's an expiring contract which I think we'll let expire unless we can pull off some amazing trade of unequal value for him. I don't think that will happen, however. I seriously doubt that Bird wants to trade Quis. What's the point? His greatest value is as an expiring contract.

JayRedd
10-11-2008, 05:11 PM
In other news, Gilbert Arenas will be all right.