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Hicks
10-02-2008, 07:09 PM
http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5700021874

It reads like one of those exam questions asking which statement does not belong with the others.

He was the best high school senior in the country in 2004-05. He was one of the best freshmen in the ACC in 2005-06. He was just the second sophomore in Duke history to be named a co-captain 2006-07. He was in the D-League, twice, in 2007-08.

Josh McRoberts' storybook career ran into an unexpected plot twist in his first NBA season but now that the Carmel High product is back home again, he's confident he can write the happy ending so many expect.

"I think it's good to get a fresh start here in Indiana," McRoberts said. "Obviously it's exciting to me home, here with the Pacers, and I think I've been doing everything I can to have a great opportunity and have a great outlook for this year."

A second-round pick of Portland (No. 37 overall), McRoberts hoped to team with fellow Indianapolis standout Greg Oden in the Trail Blazers' young nucleus. But McRoberts suffered a severe ankle sprain during the first week of training camp and missed more than a month and found himself playing a futile game of catch-up the rest of the season.

He played in just eight games for the Blazers and twice was sent to the Idaho Stampede of the D-League.

"I think you try to use everything you've experienced in basketball, in life, anything. Even though it's not the best experience you take from it what you can and learn," McRoberts said. "I think it helped me grow as a person and I think it helped make me more professional as a basketball player. It was tough times, obviously, getting hurt for three or four months at the start of the year, bouncing back and forth between Portland and Idaho in the D-League. It was my goal to stay out of the D-League, so that really put a hit on me, going down there and having to deal with that. But I think it made me better, more prepared, coming into this season."

Acquired by the Pacers in the trade that brought Jarrett Jack and the No. 13 pick used for Brandon Rush in exchange for the No. 11 pick (Jerryd Bayless) and Ike Diogu, McRoberts moved immediately back to Indianapolis to begin a rigorous summer of workouts in Conseco Fieldhouse, where he became a familiar presence. The 6-10 forward made an immediate impression on Coach Jim O'Brien.

"Josh is by probably a large margin our most athletic big man – quickest off the ground, probably the fastest big man that we have, does a lot of very, very positive things," O'Brien said. "I didn't know a lot about Josh prior to seeing him this summer. I'm very, very impressed with his potential because he is so big, so quick, runs so well. I think he's a guy that we value from the standpoint of the long-term."

Those words are music to McRoberts, who values being valued. His offseason program demonstrated his willingness to work and his commitment to the game. There's no guarantee he'll play more for the Pacers in 2008-09 than he did in Portland but at least he feels a legitimate part of the program.

"I think I was brought in kind of as a long-term player," he said. "No matter what happens this year (when his contract expires) hopefully I'll get another opportunity at the end of this year to be back here in Indiana and I'm excited about the opportunity I have. I'm going to try to take advantage of it. I have a much better opportunity here to play. I think the coaches and the staff are more familiar with me and know what I can do and respect what I can do a little more than in Portland."

In some cases, playing in the old hometown can be a distraction for a player, particularly a young one, because of the preponderance of friends and family. McRoberts, however, is happy to be back with those who comprise his support structure.

"For some people, it might not be a good thing but for me, I see it as a positive," he said. "I have great people around me, a great family and great friends who won't cause distractions. They'll help me out through the tough times. Being a 6-hour flight away, you don't really have too many people that have your back. I think it'll be good to be here and I'm excited for the opportunity."

0h_05479TBU

Fast breaks: No search for a third point guard

Though Travis Diener could miss all of the preseason and the first two weeks of the regular season recovering from pain in his left foot, O'Brien said the team would not bring in another point guard and that Marquis Daniels would fill in behind T.J. Ford and Jarrett Jack as needed. It will only be a temporary move for Daniels. "We thought having to play him at the point last year really hurt him just because he's not a pure point guard," O'Brien said. " … Our intent (long-term) is not to use Marquis at the point this year."

Troy Murphy (sore Achilles) joined Diener and Mike Dunleavy on the sidelines for Thursday morning's practice, though his absence was deemed "precautionary" by O'Brien. After practicing twice Tuesday and Wednesday, O'Brien gave the team Thursday night off.

Jack Ramsay, O'Brien's father-in-law, is back on the sidelines as a camp observer for the second year in a row. Ramsay, 83, coached the Pacers from 1986-88 and was enshrined in the Basketball Hall of Fame in 1992. "He really enjoys being around hoops and helping me," O'Brien said. "He wants very much for us to succeed and gets the chance to spend a lot of time with his daughter and granddaughter out here. Jack is like the rest of our coaching staff: loves to be in the gym, loves to be in a teaching environment and has forgotten more basketball than I'll ever know so it's wonderful to have him."

Major Cold
10-02-2008, 08:03 PM
I really think that McBob will be on this team. Which means that Cro may not.

Kid Minneapolis
10-02-2008, 08:36 PM
I didn't realize Jack Ramsay was O'Brien's father-in-law.

mrknowname
10-02-2008, 09:36 PM
mcrob looks lean in that video.

he looked fat at his press conference when he got traded here imo

Bball
10-02-2008, 10:05 PM
I'm very, very impressed with his potential

There's that word....

count55
10-02-2008, 10:13 PM
Our big men are: Murphy, Hibbert, Foster, Rasho, Croshere, and Baston.

Pacers4Life
10-02-2008, 10:13 PM
I think that having a veteran big unit is a positive but i also see nothing but a positive result from keeping him on as our 15th(?) man.

count55
10-02-2008, 10:15 PM
I actually see nothing from keeping him as a 15th man...(or from anyone as a 15th man). It's the 15th man for God's sake. Each of us on this board could take one game in that role and not make a tinker's dam worth of difference.

d_c
10-02-2008, 10:24 PM
There's that word....

If you don't like the word potential, then let me assuage your fears by saying that I don't think McRoberts has much potential in this league. You won't have to deal with that word when it comes to Josh McBobbies.

Doug
10-02-2008, 10:28 PM
There's that word....

I would change that quote slightly and respond with another, but I'm on a 12-step program and I don't want Seth to slap me around again.

Major Cold
10-02-2008, 10:41 PM
I have debated whether or not I would address this cynicism towards this kid.

He has been painted as a Carmel snob who was handed everything and when he actually had to work he folded.

What of Dun? He needed a different atmosphere to excel. Unfortunately McRoberts has come to the wrong team. Because he gets no fresh start.

This is not directed at anyone in this thread in particular. But this is directed to those who are unwilling to give someone a second chance, because second chances burnt in the past or because some of the reasons I mentioned above.

I say let his hard work do the talking and not his disappointing past.
<!-- / message --> <!-- sig --> __________________

docpaul
10-02-2008, 10:51 PM
I have debated whether or not I would address this cynicism towards this kid.

He has been painted as a Carmel snob who was handed everything and when he actually had to work he folded.

What of Dun? He needed a different atmosphere to excel. Unfortunately McRoberts has come to the wrong team. Because he gets no fresh start.

This is not directed at anyone in this thread in particular. But this is directed to those who are unwilling to give someone a second chance, because second chances burnt in the past.

I say let his hard work do the talking and not his disappointing past.
<!-- / message --> <!-- sig --> __________________

You know, Warren Buffet is a pretty smart guy... your post reminded me of a quote of his I read today that I think applies here:

"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future."

LoneGranger33
10-02-2008, 11:37 PM
Marquis Daniels playing point again?! I'd rather have Shawne man the offense.

croz24
10-03-2008, 02:04 AM
hopefully if josh sticks with the pacers, he convince his good buddy mr. oden to come home in a few years.

Kuq_e_Zi91
10-03-2008, 02:36 AM
hopefully if josh sticks with the pacers, he convince his good buddy mr. oden to come home in a few years.

Bring Mike Conley too while you're at it.

Midcoasted
10-03-2008, 02:45 AM
I actually see nothing from keeping him as a 15th man...(or from anyone as a 15th man). It's the 15th man for God's sake. Each of us on this board could take one game in that role and not make a tinker's dam worth of difference.

LOL. I remeber when Kite was our 15th man. He actually scored once.

But McRoberts, let's keep him. I'll take coaches word for it. i don't see how he wouldn't make the team and not have a bench role to start with. If he is our most athletic big then we need to have him in there 20 minutes a game at least, because is he is our most athletic, that means he fits JOB's system the best. Not that he is the best, he just fits the best. So that will give us an advantage.

Keep McBob! If he gets cut over Tinsley or Croshere I'd be upset. Croshere was on his decline three years ago. He's just not the same Croshere as 2000.

And I like Baston when he was here but im definitely not sold on him being big for us.

croz24
10-03-2008, 03:13 AM
Bring Mike Conley too while you're at it.

why stop there? eric gordon and daequan cook should also come to reunite arguably the greatest aau team of all time! conley, gordon, cook, mcroberts, oden.

Will Galen
10-03-2008, 03:52 AM
. . . because is he is our most athletic, that means he fits JOB's system the best. Not that he is the best, he just fits the best. So that will give us an advantage.

The way you are reasoning we should have kept James White. A more athletic player will fit any coach's system better than a less athletic player. However there's more to it than being the most athletic. Skill ,and what's between a players ears play their part too.

The way I look at it is O'B will want to keep the players he thinks will help him the most. Bird will want to keep the best players too, but he will also want to keep players that will help in the future too. That means if they keep Cro over McBob, they think McBob won't amount to anything.

Knowing this, and knowing Bird and O'B know what they are doing, I won't really care who makes it as a bench player and who doesn't.

Kuq_e_Zi91
10-03-2008, 04:31 AM
why stop there? eric gordon and daequan cook should also come to reunite arguably the greatest aau team of all time! conley, gordon, cook, mcroberts, oden.

:laugh: This probably has nothing to do with Indiana but hey, if we're reuniting people why not reunite TJ Ford and Chris Bosh. Man ... I love to dream.

Major Cold
10-03-2008, 08:38 AM
Lets reunite reality with this thread.

Unclebuck
10-03-2008, 10:32 AM
Did I miss something? is Conrad Brunner no longer running Pacers.com

Roaming Gnome
10-03-2008, 10:52 AM
There's that word....

Shhh!!!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3267/2553069735_eaa322d3c0.jpg?v=1212677505

ChicagoJ
10-03-2008, 10:54 AM
Considering our big men are:

Hibbert: Strong, not very mobile
Foster: Aging
Murphy: Feet in concrete
Croshere: Never exactly quick
Rasho: Big and plodding
Baston: Relatively quick, vs. those guys

Of course McRoberts is the most athletic on this roster. Whoop-de-doo.

Hicks
10-03-2008, 11:08 AM
Did I miss something? is Conrad Brunner no longer running Pacers.com

Who said he wasn't running it anymore?

Unclebuck
10-03-2008, 11:21 AM
Who said he wasn't running it anymore?

I guess no one, but I never seen his name on the bylines of the articles and they don't seem like articles he usually writes.

Unclebuck
10-03-2008, 11:22 AM
Considering our big men are:

Hibbert: Strong, not very mobile
Foster: Aging
Murphy: Feet in concrete
Croshere: Never exactly quick
Rasho: Big and plodding
Baston: Relatively quick, vs. those guys

Of course McRoberts is the most athletic on this roster. Whoop-de-doo.


LOL

Really J - is that all you can do is criticize Jeff - I usually just let is slide - but it is starting to bug me.

JayRedd
10-03-2008, 12:03 PM
Has he ceased to age? Is he not 32 in a few month with back issues?

I gotta agree that saying Josh is our most athletic big is about as significant as saying Vin Diesel's best acting performance came in Boiler Room.

ChicagoJ
10-03-2008, 12:30 PM
Has he ceased to age? Is he not 32 in a few month with back issues?

I gotta agree that saying Josh is our most athletic big is about as significant as saying Vin Diesel's best acting performance came in Boiler Room.

I don't know about back issues, but he hasn't been as quick since the hip surgeries. As his speed deteriorates, he even did the thing last season that I said he could never do - play physical defense.

When he was McBob's age, he was much, much quicker, and lightning quick with his jumps than he is now.

Since86
10-03-2008, 12:59 PM
Considering our big men are:

Hibbert: Strong, not very mobile
Foster: Aging
Murphy: Feet in concrete
Croshere: Never exactly quick
Rasho: Big and plodding
Baston: Relatively quick, vs. those guys

Of course McRoberts is the most athletic on this roster. Whoop-de-doo.


Has he ceased to age? Is he not 32 in a few month with back issues?

I gotta agree that saying Josh is our most athletic big is about as significant as saying Vin Diesel's best acting performance came in Boiler Room.

Josh would be the most athletic big man on most teams in the league. He's a freak athlete, which is why he was rated so high coming out of HS. He has all the necessary skills, just lacks the attitude.

The big knock on him at Duke wasn't his inability to play, but his inability to step up to play. I watch a lot of Duke games, and there were times where he would put on clinics. During press break situations, he would bring the ball up a lot of the time, due to his very good handles and ability to see over the top.

That's why I have such a hard time believing he could be the arrogant ******* some paint him to be. He's hardly arrogant on the court. He's extremely passive, and that doesn't go with arrogance.

d_c
10-03-2008, 01:07 PM
Josh would be the most athletic big man on most teams in the league. He's a freak athlete, which is why he was rated so high coming out of HS. He has all the necessary skills, just lacks the attitude.


McRoberts has had back issues dating back to his high school days which have hurt his mobility and he measured out in the pre-draft camp as the 2nd "fattest" player next to Aaron Gray (talking body fat %).

ChicagoJ
10-03-2008, 01:09 PM
That could be true.

Let's say that Roseanne Barr, my mother-in-law, and Margaret Thatcher are having dinner. When Kate Beckinsale joins them, of course she's the hottest of the four. Its a silly comparison to make.

Hicks
10-03-2008, 01:27 PM
The negativity is amazing. And a serious turn off.

d_c
10-03-2008, 01:30 PM
The negativity is amazing. And a serious turn off.

Well, some people are just saying that McRoberts, who played in the D-League last year (and played very poorly) and dropped to the 2nd round just doesn't have that much in terms of NBA talent. Is that being negative or just giving an opinion of a player evaluation?

And nobody sees this as much of a big deal since the Pacers got him as a throw in for a trade and he's expected to be a 13th-15th man anyways.

Speed
10-03-2008, 01:43 PM
Kid is 21, had an injury that stunted some growth last year, is the lowest salary on the team. I'm willing to see what he can do, what is the downside?

d_c
10-03-2008, 01:48 PM
I'm willing to see what he can do, what is the downside?

Considering that he was a throw in to a trade and makes very little salary, there is no downside at all.

There's just also isn't much upside, IMO.

ChicagoJ
10-03-2008, 02:00 PM
Not much upside?

Sounds like Maceo, but at a fraction of the cost and with the advantage of youth.

I've never seen him play at any level, so I have no actual opinion. But its funny that some people are crazy about Baston and others are totally dismissive of Josh. I wonder if any of them are the same person?

Speed
10-03-2008, 02:03 PM
No upside at 21, I don't agree with that.

d_c
10-03-2008, 02:05 PM
No upside at 21, I don't agree with that.

It'd be nice if he had some more talent to go with that youth.

Speed
10-03-2008, 02:18 PM
Well it's all just opinion. I'm not even a McBob advocate, but Obie thinks he has the Athleticism and I would say the skills could be improved with work. I think as is they don't expect him to really see the floor, but I really don't mind having one of my bottom 3 guys being a young guy with potential. I mean the kid went to Duke, was thought of as the best Senior in the country in Highschool, he got drafted in the NBA. Many people at many times have thought he has a chance.

Now I'll agree that he isn't going to be or capable of being an Allstar or anything crazy like that, but I gotta think that he is capable of maybe developing into a rotation guy if he maximizes his potential.

Again he is 21.

Maybe he is out of the league after this year or maybe he improves and has a long career.

It's just impossible to tell at the point.

Just like the Bayless lovers, the guy played well in summer league and college for a bad team and now he's the second coming. How do people know? They just don't.

To me, he's got a shot, it just depends on how hard he works and how determined he is.

I guess I'm not sure what exactly you mean by talent? Athletcism? Skill? Strength? Size? Height? Shooting? Ball Handling? Quickness?

Again, I really don't have any stake in McBob being good or not unless it benefits the Pacers. All respect to your opinion dc.

d_c
10-03-2008, 02:31 PM
I guess I'm not sure what exactly you mean by talent? Athletcism? Skill? Strength? Size? Height? Shooting? Ball Handling? Quickness?


At the NBA level, McRoberts simply doesn't stand out much in any single aspect you mentioned.

More specifically, McRoberts is a guy who doesn't like contact on the inside a lot, and that was said of him in college. So at the NBA level, he's basically a perimeter playing big. As a perimeter playing big in the NBA, he's nothing great in terms of being a shooter and he lacks footspeed. He's a decent ballhandler, but this doesn't matter much if he's not going to be beating anyone off the dribble.

If he was tougher as an interior player, some of his skills could actually translate to a real advantage. But as a perimeter guy, whatever skills he has aren't quite as impressive.

With McRoberts, you're looking at the upside of a 4th/5th bigman on a good team.

Since86
10-03-2008, 02:33 PM
McRoberts has had back issues dating back to his high school days which have hurt his mobility and he measured out in the pre-draft camp as the 2nd "fattest" player next to Aaron Gray (talking body fat %).

He measured in at 13.7%. Without looking in my ACSM manuel, I'd be fairly confident that falls within the 90%ile. That's not fat by any means of the word.

The "athlete" classification is 6-13%. So while he is on the edge, he's still in that classification. When you get down that low, there really isn't a big difference between 5% and 10%, I'm talking a matter of 1mm of difference. Without getting too long winded, don't put a lot of stock into body fat %s at the combine. There are so many variables to take into consideration, how they measured (calipers, bod-pod, water test), where each player is in their weight training, etc., you could get varied results.

On a side note, the only thing worse than measuring body fat with calipers, is getting it done to you.

d_c
10-03-2008, 02:35 PM
He measured in at 13.7%. Without looking in my ACSM manuel, I'd be fairly confident that falls within the 90%ile. That's not fat by any means of the word.
.

I didn't call him fat. I just called him the 2nd "fattest" guy at the combine and I don't think he's an athletic freak on the NBA level.

Shade
10-03-2008, 02:44 PM
Every time Larry/Jim try to prop up McBob as anything other than a scrub, I lose a little more faith in their decision-making abilities.

Not that I have that much to begin with, mind you.

Since86
10-03-2008, 02:49 PM
I didn't call him fat. I just called him the 2nd "fattest" guy at the combine and I don't think he's an athletic freak on the NBA level.

Then what's the point of making the remark?

That would be like calling out the guy with the second lowest IQ at a MENSA conference. I mean he's scores are below everyone else's in the room, but he's still a genius.

JayRedd
10-03-2008, 02:57 PM
Josh would be the most athletic big man on most teams in the league.

KG, Sean Williams, Samuel Dalembert, Tyrus Thomas, Emeka Okafur, Micheal Beasley, Dwight Howard, Francisco Elson, Andray Blatche, Tyson Chandler, Al Jeff, KMart, Serge Ibaka, Greg Oden, Carlos Boozer, Andris Biedrins, Marcus Camby, Andrew Bynum and Amare, among others think you're crazy.

JayRedd
10-03-2008, 03:00 PM
Then what's the point of making the remark?

That would be like calling out the guy with the second lowest IQ at a MENSA conference. I mean he's scores are below everyone else's in the room, but he's still a genius.

Because the guy with the second lowest IQ at a MENSA conference is dumb by comparison. Ergo, Josh was fat compared to other world-class potential NBA athletes.

It's highly relevant.

Similarly, Charles Barkley was never fat for society. He was fat for the NBA.

Since86
10-03-2008, 03:15 PM
Because the guy with the second lowest IQ at a MENSA conference is dumb by comparison. Ergo, Josh was fat compared to other world-class potential NBA athletes.

It's highly relevant.

Similarly, Charles Barkley was never fat for society. He was fat for the NBA.

And you just proved my point. What in the world does body fat %s have to do with their ability on the court? How much did Chuck being "fat" hurt his game? Hell, maybe a scary thought.

I mean if we really wanted to debate the point, I could make an argument that he could drop several percentage points. The easiest argument could be he was in the bulk cycle of his weight training regimen. Or even measuring error. Getting body fat isn't like you see at those machines at the mall.

(I think he's a better player than d c is making him out to be, but defending him isn't my goal. I'm saying it's a stupid test to evaluate them, unless there's a glaring problem)

13% body fat isn't considered being out of shape by any means, and using it as a negative is mindboggling.

If we want to go down this road, then DWade isn't a very good jumper. His measurements aren't anywhere close to the top in the NBA.

JayRedd
10-03-2008, 03:22 PM
I'm not saying it has anything to do with basketball...And I realize you know more about all this stuff than just about anyone here...But I'm guessing Josh McRoberts' length, height, weight, leaping ability, agility and other fitness-related measurements aae relevent to a thread concerned with how good of an athlete Josh McRoberts is.

I personally don't think any of these numbers are authoritative and never ever consider examining pre-draft measurements (Chuckster, for example, is one of the most freakish athletes I've ever seen and Boozer/Wade's low vertical numbers don't reflect their uber-agility, balance and coordination), but I don't see how bringing up fitness-related numbers could be seen as "off limits" in a thread on this topic.

d_c
10-03-2008, 03:27 PM
13% body fat isn't considered being out of shape by any means, and using it as a negative is mindboggling.

If we want to go down this road, then DWade isn't a very good jumper. His measurements aren't anywhere close to the top in the NBA.

I just don't think McRoberts is an athletic freak by NBA standards, whether it be "workout" type athleticism or on the court basketball type athleticism.

His body fat % more than anything just probably means he would need to get better conditioning if he ever wanted to play big minutes in the NBA.

Hicks
10-03-2008, 03:39 PM
Well, some people are just saying that McRoberts, who played in the D-League last year (and played very poorly) and dropped to the 2nd round just doesn't have that much in terms of NBA talent. Is that being negative or just giving an opinion of a player evaluation?

And nobody sees this as much of a big deal since the Pacers got him as a throw in for a trade and he's expected to be a 13th-15th man anyways.

The guy is athletic, his head coach praises said ability, and people come on here and downplay it as best as possible with, essentially, "Well, sure. We suck, otherwise in this area." Implying he couldn't possibly just happen to, you know, actually BE pretty athletic for a big man.

d_c
10-03-2008, 03:42 PM
The guy is athletic, his head coach praises said ability, and people come on here and downplay it as best as possible with, essentially, "Well, sure. We suck, otherwise in this area." Implying he couldn't possibly just happen to, you know, actually BE pretty athletic for a big man.

I would say he's an athletic bigman by NCAA standards and for this year's Pacer squad. By the rest of NBA standards, I'd say he has pretty middling athleticism for a bigman.

JayRedd
10-03-2008, 04:13 PM
The guy is athletic, his head coach praises said ability, and people come on here and downplay it as best as possible with, essentially, "Well, sure. We suck, otherwise in this area." Implying he couldn't possibly just happen to, you know, actually BE pretty athletic for a big man.

There is Eddy Curry atlethic. There is Josh McRoberts athletic. And there is Amare Stoudemire athletic.

You, J'OB, Since86, his mom and whoever else can try to convince me all they want that Josh McRoberts is an uber-athletic player until the crows come home...but I also have eyes and understand that Josh is nowhere near being an elite athlete when you compare him to the other 120 or so people near his size in this league.

Put it this way: If Amare equals 100 for an NBA big man and Jerome James equals 0 and, say, Nick Collison equals 50...then McRoberts is probably around a 70-75.

That's certainly commendable and I give him full credit for being good athlete...but let's not start trying to talk ourselves into this guy being Tyrus Thomas or Tyson Chandler.

Since86
10-03-2008, 04:23 PM
That's certainly commendable and I give him full credit for being good athlete...but let's not start trying to talk ourselves into this guy being Tyrus Thomas or Tyson Chandler.


Again....Jimmie Johnson is a good NASCAR driver, but he's no Richard Petty.

Excuse my french, but no ****. I find it quite interesting you want to compare him to absolute freaks of nature, and use it as a good comparison tool. He's athleticly superior to JO, and a number of other #1 big men on teams around the league. (No not saying JO is #1 in Toronto, just that he was here.)

If you compare everyone to the top of everything, then obviously the don't measure up.

"That Kobe sure is a good SG"
"Yeah, but he's no Michael Jordan.

"Man, Tyson Gay is fast."
"Yeah, but he's no Usain Bolt."

EDIT: No one is saying that he's a Dwight Howard, Amare, or Tyson Chandler. But for being 6'10" he's definately ahead of the curve.

Major Cold
10-03-2008, 04:27 PM
"Man this thread is annoying"
"But its no Random thoughts"

Since86
10-03-2008, 04:29 PM
Go up to thread tools, click the drop down box, and select Ignore Thread.

Problem fixed.

mrknowname
10-03-2008, 05:09 PM
mcroberts is really athletic, even by nba standards

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-9-VJNbnEE

Roaming Gnome
10-03-2008, 07:49 PM
I will be so glad after the first few pre-season games. I'll be able to decide for myself on the abilities on McRobberts. Some folks on here are either going to look like they really know what they are talking about or they are going to look like total idiots that can't get over stuff from his High School past.

I'm just wondering what the guy CAN do. I know a lot of you would love to respond with the word, "NOTHING". That's a pretty strong statement considering a guy like John Edwards could do "something" when he was here; eventhough his something was not worth a roster spot. I'd be willing accept that the player can do very little, but he has to be able to do something, or we would be hearing about the same amount of information about him as we would heard about Stephen Grahm this week.

NuffSaid
10-04-2008, 10:25 AM
Considering our big men are:

Hibbert: Strong, not very mobile
Foster: Aging
Murphy: Feet in concrete
Croshere: Never exactly quick
Rasho: Big and plodding
Baston: Relatively quick, vs. those guys

Of course McRoberts is the most athletic on this roster. Whoop-de-doo.
Look, I agree there's alot to be said for experience in pro sports, but I find it very hypocritical of most posters here who all but demanded that the Pacers tear the team down and start over and yet when the very thought of bringing in or retaining youthfulness everyone seems to cringe! STOP IT ALREADY!!!

There aren't alot of YouTube videos out there that cover Josh McRoberts, but the one thing I noticed in every video of him I did see - and again, there aren't many - was his quickness, his athleticism and his mobility. In looking at his videos I did something most fans probably wouldn't consider doing: I opened two browsers and looked at both McRoberts and Hibbert side-by-side. McRoberts is so much more faster and mobile underneath the basket over Hibbert and his body movement seems more natural whereas Hibbert seems more mechanical. That doesn't mean I'm advocating McRoberts over Hibbert because they both play different positions and bring different skill sets to the table. BUT if you're going to talk down about Hibbert not being fast enough, why then would you condemn McRoberts for being faster yet not quite as "polished" as, say, the PF we traded away (out of necessity, I might add)?

Think it through, people?

EDIT: For those that haven't seen McRoberts in action, try this video link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-9-VJNbnEE). It covers McRobert's participation in the 2005 McD's Slam Dunk championship, as well as his college years at Duke. I think you'll be very impressed with what you see.

(Sidenote: Yes, I've advocating trading McRoberts in recent posts, but that's only for financial reasons when listing options to either bring Croshere back or make the Tinsley-to-Denver trade work while reducing the team's cap. Otherwise, if I had to choose I'd keep McRoberts over Williams or Baston whom I like.)

NuffSaid
10-04-2008, 10:54 AM
Scratch that McRobert's video. MrKnowName beat me to it. :p But it is good...very good.

Speed
10-04-2008, 11:11 AM
Scratch that McRobert's video. MrKnowName beat me to it. :p But it is good...very good.


The guy has some length and is unusually good at handling the ball on the break. The back to back, behind the back is impressive on the video. He has good handle on the break, but I doubt he does in the half court, in a crowd sort of way.


I think maybe the biggest thing with McBob is he was the #1 highschool player in the country went to Duke, which comes with all of the expectations there. I think the bar was set ridiculously high for him to go lottery if he would have came out of highschool. I guess what I'm saying is he isn't a lottery pick type player, but I really think if he works and works he can be a nice player. A guy who comes to mind is Croshere.

Austin and him are different in game and that Austin had 4 yrs at Providence, but I mean that 7-10 guy in the rotation.

I'm guessing, as with every kid who gets a shot in the NBA 75% of it is if they can develop and approach their potential through dedication.

Regardless, I am completely for having a 21 year old guy who has some skills and potential to get better, who makes 700k a year and hopefully won't pout about no playing time. The other way to go would be to have the bottom 5 guys on your squad be Stephen Grahm and Maceo Baston types. Thats fine, but why not take a no risk/maybe reward shot at a youngster. No harm done if he doesn't progress, his contract falls off next year and a roster spot opens.

RamBo_Lamar
10-04-2008, 11:29 AM
I will be so glad after the first few pre-season games. I'll be able to decide for myself on the abilities on McRobberts. Some folks on here are either going to look like they really know what they are talking about or they are going to look like total idiots that can't get over stuff from his High School past.

I'm just wondering what the guy CAN do. I know a lot of you would love to respond with the word, "NOTHING". That's a pretty strong statement considering a guy like John Edwards could do "something" when he was here; eventhough his something was not worth a roster spot. I'd be willing accept that the player can do very little, but he has to be able to do something, or we would be hearing about the same amount of information about him as we would heard about Stephen Grahm this week.


Very nicely put Gnome.


On a weekend (true story) about a month ago, stopped by a local watering
hole to down a couple cold suds. While sitting there, overheard several
fellows at the end of the bar talking sports, and their conversation shifted
to the Pacers.

They started going through the roster and discussing some of the more well
known players, the big trades, our draft picks, so I moved over that way to
get a better seat, better listen in what they had to say, and even add my
:twocents: if needed. Mainly just wanted to listen to what their opinions were,
even if they appeared to be just your average neighborhood drunks.

When an opening came along, I specifically made it a point to ask the guy
who was taking the lead in the conversation, "Well what do you think about
Josh McRoberts?". He just looked at me for a second, then responded,
"He's a douchbag".

Well having kept up to date with many of the postings here on PD, was not
entirely surprised by this response. I then asked him, "Why is he a douchbag?".
He immediately came back and said, "Because he didn't go to Purdue".
Now this took me by surprise, and I thought was quite funny since I had
been under the impression that is was just IU fans that felt this way about
McRoberts.

So having being prepared, then asked him, "If Coach K recruited you, and
you had a chance to play for one of the greatest college coaches ever,
wouldn't you too?". He thought for a second, then responded, "Well I didn't
look at it that way".
_

So I guess the moral of this particular story is; if McRoberts is good enough
that so many people are still pissed about him not attending their favorite
school, then he must be pretty darned good.

After seeing a few of those youtube videos, can say that if he shows that
he can bring some of those moves against NBA level competition, then am
glad to see him getting a shot to make this Pacers roster. Am really hoping
his basketball IQ and coachabilty are close enough to equaling his athletic
abilities that he will not only make the final cut, but become an important
piece of a winning Pacers squad.

:yes:

ChicagoJ
10-04-2008, 11:52 AM
Look, I agree there's alot to be said for experience in pro sports, but I find it very hypocritical of most posters here who all but demanded that the Pacers tear the team down and start over and yet when the very thought of bringing in or retaining youthfulness everyone seems to cringe! STOP IT ALREADY!!!

I've said above I have no opinion on McRoberts. I do have an opinion on the other five/six big men on the roster, and the opinion is that NONE of them are very 'athletic' at this stage of their career (and that most of them were never regarded as being very athletic at ANY stage of their career.)

My point has nothing to do with McRoberts. Its a stupid comparison to make.

I'm seeing a lot of disucssion about 'skills' and ability to contribute. I think there is some confusion, that's not what O'Brien was talking about. Atletics, which is the original greek word for track and field, is generally understood to refer to speed, agility, jumping ability, and explosiveness. Nobody has ever accused Rasho, Murphy, or Croshere of being great ahtletes. The pre-draft knock on Hibbert is that he's not overly athletic. Baston and Foster might have been more athletic in their twenties but they were never even exceptional by NBA standards.

I haven't said a single thing about McRobberts in here. I do think this points to how immobile the rest of our front court is, however.

JayRedd
10-04-2008, 01:47 PM
EDIT: No one is saying that he's a Dwight Howard, Amare, or Tyson Chandler. But for being 6'10" he's definately ahead of the curve.

Cool. Agreed.

My only actual point was that everyone else on our team is behind the curve (aside from probably Maceo).

And I would have left it alone at that until one guy said Josh would be "the most athletic guy on most teams in the league"...something I consider undisputedly false.

Roaming Gnome
10-04-2008, 02:20 PM
Wanna hear something ironic that kind of ties into the whole J. McRobberts issue? Also, it might answer some quetions on why so many hate McRobberts.

About a month ago, I started sorting thru some of my Reggie Miller memoribilla. I ran across the newspaper from Reggie's final regular season game. Of course Reggie was the headline of the sports section, but guess what the other "of intrest" headline was on the very same page?

McRobberts won't play for Indiana All-Stars!

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/attachment.php?attachmentid=317&stc=1&d=1223144987

NuffSaid
10-05-2008, 04:22 PM
I've said above I have no opinion on McRoberts. I do have an opinion on the other five/six big men on the roster, and the opinion is that NONE of them are very 'athletic' at this stage of their career (and that most of them were never regarded as being very athletic at ANY stage of their career.)

My point has nothing to do with McRoberts. Its a stupid comparison to make.

I'm seeing a lot of disucssion about 'skills' and ability to contribute. I think there is some confusion, that's not what O'Brien was talking about. Atletics, which is the original greek word for track and field, is generally understood to refer to speed, agility, jumping ability, and explosiveness. Nobody has ever accused Rasho, Murphy, or Croshere of being great ahtletes. The pre-draft knock on Hibbert is that he's not overly athletic. Baston and Foster might have been more athletic in their twenties but they were never even exceptional by NBA standards.

I haven't said a single thing about McRobberts in here. I do think this points to how immobile the rest of our front court is, however.
I misunderstood your meaning from your previous post. I took your comment, "Of course McRoberts is the most athletic on this roster. Whoop-de-doo," as a slight against McRoberts. I trust then what you meant was he's the only one among the bigs (except perhaps for Baston) who could possibly keep up in JOB's high speed offense. Time will tell, of course, but I think he's certainly someone TPTB would want to keep around considering they're trying to keep salaries down and bring in youth and vitality.

The "whoop-de-doo" did throw me off, but I gotcha' now. ;)

count55
10-06-2008, 12:45 PM
I have no opinion about Josh McRoberts as a high school player.

I harbor no ill will towards his decision to go to Duke. Hell, I've been known to cheer for Duke on occasion.

I don't care whether or not he's a douchebag. Some of the best players in the history of sports have been douchebags.

What I will tell you is that, to this point, he :

- was a disappointment at Duke
- fell to the second round of the NBA draft
- was non-existent as a rookie in Portland
- was non-descript in his stint in the NBDL
- was thrown into this deal strictly as salary filler to make the Jack-for-Ike deal work.

To Jay's point, saying that Josh is the most athletic big guy on this team, even by a wide margin, is what I'd describe as "damning with faint praise." We don't have a particularly athletic collection of big men, so the compliment simply doesn't resonate with me.

When I say that it is exceedingly unlikely that he will ever make a significant contribution to this, or any other NBA team, it is nothing personal. It is simply a calculation of the odds based on past performance, and the outcome of dozens, if not hundreds of players with similar situations and resumes to McBob.

If McRoberts beats the odds and turns out to be a good player, then great. If not, it's hardly cause for much concern. I don't get all the hubbub. What's the point in getting worked up over the McRoberts/Grahams/Bastons of the world when they'll likely collect more DNP-CD's than not?