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ROCislandWarrior
06-17-2004, 09:49 PM
I was just on a Magic board and read something that concerned me. They were talking about how the only players that can consistently guard Tmac are Tmac and Tayshaun.

Tmac shot 11-44 against the Pistons last year and they said it was due to the fact that Tayshaun went 1 on 1 with him and botherd him (Kobe, Artest). Then, they had Ben shadow him to seal up any seems Tmac found.

They also said that Tayshaun was also a big reason the Pistons came back from down 3-1 last year. Rick put him on Tmac and that took out the Pistons!

This concerns me. This concerns me ALOT!

Why would we want to get Tmac, only to have him shut down in the ECF by Tayshaun?

ABADays
06-17-2004, 09:51 PM
Uh - I'll take the chance.

ROCislandWarrior
06-17-2004, 09:53 PM
Oh, btw I am not saying I don't want Tmac now...I am just confused.

I am taking all this from what was said on the Magic forum

http://mb3.theinsiders.com/forlandomagicfrm1.showMessage?topicID=1768.topic (scroll down a bit)

I have not seen Tayshaun defened Tmac before

ROCislandWarrior
06-17-2004, 09:54 PM
Uh - I'll take the chance.

This is assuming we have to give up Ron to get him.

If we can get Tmac without giving up Ron, this would not worry me 1 bit...Nothing would :D

Unclebuck
06-17-2004, 09:59 PM
We all have to admit that Prince is a great defender, and the pistons are a great defensive team. So it isn't like we can get anyone better that would be able to score on the Pistons.

capaman
06-17-2004, 10:01 PM
If we can get Tmac without giving up Ron, this would not worry me 1 bit...Nothing would

Amen, but what are the odds of that? :unimpressed:

pb777
06-17-2004, 10:02 PM
Ben wont have the luxury of helping out on D vs TMac. That would leave JO or Foster wide open. It is a totally different situation in Indy. TMac would not be the only option in Indy like he was in Orlando. Even if Tay goes 1 on 1 againt TMac, there is not the smae pressure on TMac to score 40 pts to get the W. I think he would actually get back at Tay for shutting him down in that series 2 years ago...

ROCislandWarrior
06-17-2004, 10:03 PM
We all have to admit that Prince is a great defender, and the pistons are a great defensive team. So it isn't like we can get anyone better that would be able to score on the Pistons.

Ok UB, but you have admitted that by getting Tmac and giving up Ron, we are going to lose something on the defensive end.

So will the offense we gain with tmac combined with the D we lose be enough to beat the Pistons?

Or would we be better off keeping Ron and slugging it out with them Defensively for another year?

ROCislandWarrior
06-17-2004, 10:05 PM
Ben wont have the luxury of helping out on D vs TMac. That would leave JO or Foster wide open. It is a totally different situation in Indy. TMac would not be the only option in Indy like he was in Orlando. Even if Tay goes 1 on 1 againt TMac, there is not the smae pressure on TMac to score 40 pts to get the W. I think he would actually get back at Tay for shutting him down in that series 2 years ago...

That is not a big fear of the Pistons. And assuming they resign Rasheed, they can put one of the Wallaces on JO and let the other sag off Jeff to shadow Tmac.

Suaveness
06-17-2004, 10:05 PM
We all have to admit that Prince is a great defender, and the pistons are a great defensive team. So it isn't like we can get anyone better that would be able to score on the Pistons.

Ok UB, but you have admitted that by getting Tmac and giving up Ron, we are going to lose something on the defensive end.

So will the offense we gain with tmac combind with the D we lose be enough to beat the Pistons?

Or would we be better off keeping Ron and slugging it out with them Defensively for another year?

This is the million dollar question.

Or questions.

SpADeD
06-17-2004, 10:06 PM
Ben wont have the luxury of helping out on D vs TMac. That would leave JO or Foster wide open. It is a totally different situation in Indy. TMac would not be the only option in Indy like he was in Orlando. Even if Tay goes 1 on 1 againt TMac, there is not the smae pressure on TMac to score 40 pts to get the W. I think he would actually get back at Tay for shutting him down in that series 2 years ago... :thumbup:

JOneal7
06-17-2004, 10:12 PM
lol Tayshaun was calling himself the Tmac stopper after game 2. And Tmac lit him up in 3,4, ...
Tmac just didn't have anything left once the double and triple teams came at him. He started forcing. Don't yall get it? THEY CAN'T DOUBLE OR TRIPLE HIM! Ben won't shadow him..cause if he does...it's kick to jermaine for countless open 15 footers.
Or JTins can penetrate and if anyone collapses...that's trouble. Trust me carlisle is a good coach which is what t-mac needs. He will show tmac how to stop that. Because in orlando, all our guys do is stand around waiting for the ball while t-mac trys to go to work. It's sickening...

ROCislandWarrior
06-17-2004, 10:16 PM
lol Tayshaun was calling himself the Tmac stopper after game 2. And Tmac lit him up in 3,4, ...
Tmac just didn't have anything left once the double and triple teams came at him. He started forcing. Don't yall get it? THEY CAN'T DOUBLE OR TRIPLE HIM! Ben won't shadow him..cause if he does...it's kick to jermaine for countless open 15 footers.
Or JTins can penetrate and if anyone collapses...that's trouble. Trust me carlisle is a good coach which is what t-mac needs. He will show tmac how to stop that. Because in orlando, all our guys do is stand around waiting for the ball while t-mac trys to go to work. It's sickening...

Yes...I can attest to that. I've seen a few Magic games, all of which include 4 players standing around while Tmac goes to work. No wonder why he started Jacking up 3's this year. I don't blame him.

Unclebuck
06-17-2004, 10:20 PM
Ok UB, but you have admitted that by getting Tmac and giving up Ron, we are going to lose something on the defensive end.

So will the offense we gain with tmac combined with the D we lose be enough to beat the Pistons?

Or would we be better off keeping Ron and slugging it out with them Defensively for another year?


It is so difficult for me even to discuss the possibility of trading Artest.


We without question lose something defensively with a possible Artest for McGrady trade. Tinsley and Reggie are not very good defensively, Reggie tries hard, and Tinsley has great hands and is effecitve in his own way, but if T-Mac is the small forward, the defense suffers. (Please sign Bruce Bowen if Ron is traded)

The question is can the defensive system that the Pacers use offset the loss of Artest enough so that the increased offense makes up for the loss of defense. I think I just re-stated your question. Sorry. I don't know the answer.

Ragnar
06-17-2004, 10:20 PM
I am not worried about what Tayshaun could do simply because as others have pointed out we have a lot more options that just him.

Just thinking about the pick and rolls and inside outside game with T-Mac and J.O. on the team make me :drool:

Suaveness
06-17-2004, 10:21 PM
I am not worried about what Tayshaun could do simply because as others have pointed out we have a lot more options that just him.

Just thinking about the pick and rolls and inside outside game with T-Mac and J.O. on the team make me :drool:


Imagine HOW MUCH drooling there is going to be...we could make our own lake... :laugh:

ROCislandWarrior
06-17-2004, 10:22 PM
I am not worried about what Tayshaun could do simply because as others have pointed out we have a lot more options that just him.

Just thinking about the pick and rolls and inside outside game with T-Mac and J.O. on the team make me :drool:


Imagine HOW MUCH drooling there is going to be...we could make our own lake... :laugh:

I've already got my own puddle going :D

And UB, I guess Suave was right...that is the Million Dollar Question

Ragnar
06-17-2004, 10:23 PM
Imagine HOW MUCH drooling there is going to be...we could make our own lake... :laugh:

Folks as we enter Indianapolis you might want to look over the left side of the plane and see the newest great lake. Lake Pacer fan drool :laugh:

Suaveness
06-17-2004, 10:25 PM
Imagine HOW MUCH drooling there is going to be...we could make our own lake... :laugh:

Folks as we enter Indianapolis you might want to look over the left side of the plane and see the newest great lake. Lake Pacer fan drool :laugh:

Or jsut Lake Drool...since its inception in 2004, it has steadily risen to monumentous levels. Apparently, it is said that random people not wanted by the Pacers were dumped into here and never found again...

Suaveness
06-17-2004, 10:26 PM
And UB, I guess Suave was right...that is the Million Dollar Question

It worries me so much. I don't want to lose artest at all. I simply don't know if it is worth it. Sigh...

Unclebuck
06-17-2004, 10:32 PM
I fear that Artest won't be happy being the third option on offense, maybe in 3 or 4 years when he matures a little more he might, but right now he want to be at least number two, and I don't think he will accept being the 3rd option, scoring around 14 points per game, moving the ball when he gets it.

Now if Ron could accept his offensive role as a 3rd option, with Ron, J.O. and Tracy, Pacers would win it all next season, no doubt in my mind.

This is assuming of course that we could get Tracy without giving up Ron, which I doubt.

ROCislandWarrior
06-17-2004, 10:37 PM
I fear that Artest won't be happy being the third option on offense, maybe in 3 or 4 years when he matures a little more he might, but right now he want to be at least number two, and I don't think he will accept being the 3rd option, scoring around 14 points per game, moving the ball when he gets it.

Now if Ron could accept his offensive role as a 3rd option, with Ron, J.O. and Tracy, Pacers would win it all next season, no doubt in my mind.

This is assuming of course that we could get Tracy without giving up Ron, which I doubt.

That is my concern about keeping Ron as well. I think there will be many a games when we are screaming at the TV and posting threads about Ron holding the ball when he should be moving it.

Maybe DW and LB don't want to keep artest for this reason? (Cancer)

Did I just say that?

Ragnar
06-17-2004, 10:38 PM
I fear that Artest won't be happy being the third option on offense, maybe in 3 or 4 years when he matures a little more he might, but right now he want to be at least number two, and I don't think he will accept being the 3rd option, scoring around 14 points per game, moving the ball when he gets it.

Now if Ron could accept his offensive role as a 3rd option, with Ron, J.O. and Tracy, Pacers would win it all next season, no doubt in my mind.

This is assuming of course that we could get Tracy without giving up Ron, which I doubt.

Thats the dream. I just dont think it will happen because it is just too much to hope for.

JOneal7
06-17-2004, 10:54 PM
cmon people! Ron wanted "More Touches" and "More Shots" even after he basically tryed to force so many shots in the ECF. He won't take a backseat to tmac! as for tmac jacking up 3's...well what would you do? DRIVE to the basket? RISK Getting injured? after you have lost 19 games already and in to deep of a hole? last thing you want to do is risk bein injured. Because this team knew they wearnt doing crap even if they somehow made a miracle and made the playoffs. T-mac here? Oh yes it makes me want to start my own drool lake to :) lol
T-mac...JO...oh man...

Anthem
06-17-2004, 11:00 PM
Tayshaun's a SF, right?

Sure, he can switch onto McGrady, but that leaves Rip guarding Artest. :devil:

The advantage there is much bigger than Artest guarding Rip.

ChicagoJ
06-17-2004, 11:06 PM
I fear that Artest won't be happy being the third option on offense, maybe in 3 or 4 years when he matures a little more he might, but right now he want to be at least number two, and I don't think he will accept being the 3rd option, scoring around 14 points per game, moving the ball when he gets it.

Now if Ron could accept his offensive role as a 3rd option, with Ron, J.O. and Tracy, Pacers would win it all next season, no doubt in my mind.

This is assuming of course that we could get Tracy without giving up Ron, which I doubt.

My work here is done. That's all I needed to hear.

:blush: :D :devil: :cool:

bulletproof
06-17-2004, 11:08 PM
Maybe DW and LB don't want to keep artest for this reason? (Cancer)

Did I just say that?

I think cancer is the wrong word. Ron simply has some issues and requires a lot of babysitting and mollycoddling on the part of management. And there have been several incidents behind the scenes where he's been disrespectful toward management. It just all adds up after awhile.

ROCislandWarrior
06-17-2004, 11:14 PM
Maybe DW and LB don't want to keep artest for this reason? (Cancer)

Did I just say that?

I think cancer is the wrong word. Ron simply has some issues and requires a lot of babysitting and mollycoddling on the part of management. And there have been several incidents behind the scenes where he's been disrespectful toward management. It just all adds up after awhile.

I did not mean to say that Artest is a cancer. I meant to say that Artest may become a cancer if he has to play third fiddle behind Tmac and JO.

Maybe DW and LB realize this?

TheSauceMaster
06-17-2004, 11:18 PM
What scares the hell outta me is if we trade Artest to Orlando , who is too say they really want to keep him and don't make a backdoor deal on us to a Confrence Rival , wouldn't it be a real ***** if Detriot or NJ made such a Deal ;)

BigDawg44
06-17-2004, 11:26 PM
Everyone keeps worrying about Artest being the 3rd offensive option and wondering if he can accept it. Well, if i appears he cant.........TRADE HIM!

Anthem
06-17-2004, 11:41 PM
Everyone keeps worrying about Artest being the 3rd offensive option and wondering if he can accept it. Well, if i appears he cant.........TRADE HIM!

I agree with this. Artest's trade value is only going to go up.

Plus there's plenty of basketballs on this team. Artest's ppg shouldn't drop with Tracy McGrady. We've got room for 3 scorers.

Actually, with Tinsley, McGrady, Ron, and JO on the floor, it might convince Carlisle to open up the offense a little.

Steveman
06-18-2004, 12:00 AM
Ben wont have the luxury of helping out on D vs TMac. That would leave JO or Foster wide open. It is a totally different situation in Indy. TMac would not be the only option in Indy like he was in Orlando. Even if Tay goes 1 on 1 againt TMac, there is not the smae pressure on TMac to score 40 pts to get the W. I think he would actually get back at Tay for shutting him down in that series 2 years ago...

That is not a big fear of the Pistons. And assuming they resign Rasheed, they can put one of the Wallaces on JO and let the other sag off Jeff to shadow Tmac.

Jermaine lights up either of those guys 1 on 1. ;)

He lit up when Big Ben was on him (watch tape), Sheed did a decent job on JO. Grant did a fairly good job on him as well in the Miami series. In fact, I thought JO played a "little" (stress a little) soft against his ole buddies. He had dinner plans with Sheed durring the Pistons series and even stayed at Grant's house durring the Miami series. You gotta forget these friendships on the court in the playoffs, especially if you want the ring. JO still needs to learn this, Sheed and Grant are vets that know better.

sc
06-18-2004, 09:57 AM
lol Tayshaun was calling himself the Tmac stopper after game 2. And Tmac lit him up in 3,4, ...
Tmac just didn't have anything left once the double and triple teams came at him. He started forcing. Don't yall get it? THEY CAN'T DOUBLE OR TRIPLE HIM! Ben won't shadow him..cause if he does...it's kick to jermaine for countless open 15 footers.
Or JTins can penetrate and if anyone collapses...that's trouble. Trust me carlisle is a good coach which is what t-mac needs. He will show tmac how to stop that. Because in orlando, all our guys do is stand around waiting for the ball while t-mac trys to go to work. It's sickening...

I wonder where you get your information from.

Game 1
Tmac : 15-28 43 pts
Prince : DNP

Game 2
Tmac : 16-26 46 pts
Prince : 17 minutes

Game 3
Tmac : 10-20 29 pts
Prince : 11 minutes

Game 4
Tmac : 7-19 27 pts
Prince : DNP

Game 5
Tmac : 8-20 19 pts
Prince : 33 Minutes 5-11 15 pts

Game 6
Tmac : 11-28 37 pts
Prince : 15 Minutes

Game 7
Tmac : 7 -24 21 pts
Prince : 24 miutes 7-10 20 pts

Prince on Tmac (Game 5 & 7)
Tmac 15-44

Curry on Tmac (Game 1,2,3,4,6)
Burnt to a Crisp.

This is the series that ultimatly got Rick Fired.