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Kemo
09-26-2008, 07:55 PM
http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5700021506


what do you all think?

I am glad he is coming back.. I have always liked Croshere...I think he will help out GREATLY in the post and defense wise..
but
I don't like the logjam with 17 players.. it has me weary...


I sure hope Bird has something up his sleeve

Shade
09-26-2008, 07:57 PM
Uh-oh. Better keep him and Foster separated off the court. Or at least out of public restrooms together. :alcohol::p

Seriously, though, I'd be fine with bringing back Austin, minus that albatross contract.

Smoothdave1
09-26-2008, 08:15 PM
See Larry Bird press conference thread

Anthem
09-26-2008, 08:20 PM
I have always liked Croshere...I think he will help out GREATLY in the post and defense wise..
Um, what?

Cro's a good guy and I'd love him as a 15th man, but if there's two things he DOESN'T bring to the table it's defense and post offense.

aero
09-26-2008, 08:40 PM
He is here for training camp, doubt he will make the final roster...

Bball
09-27-2008, 01:54 AM
You know... Cro and OBrien might be a decent fit. Although maybe for Cro it is a few years too late.

-Bball

Will Galen
09-27-2008, 02:16 AM
He is here for training camp, doubt he will make the final roster...

Cro will beat out McBob if he doesn't get traded.

duke dynamite
09-27-2008, 02:32 AM
Austin was always a fan favorite, let alone a favorite of mine. His autograph was the first Pacers player's autograph I ever got during his rookie year.

He could be a good fit, but our roster is stacked. I say let Baston and McBob go. LOL

I'm excited to see him back.

count55
09-27-2008, 08:48 AM
Seems like I've read this conversation somewhere else.

RamBo_Lamar
09-27-2008, 08:59 AM
If Cro comes into training camp and outplays the competition to earn a
roster spot, then congratulations and all the power to him...by all means.

I wouldn't want him to just be handed a spot because he is known as a
"fan favorite" though.

Roaming Gnome
09-27-2008, 09:13 AM
If Cro comes into training camp and outplays the competition to earn a
roster spot, then congratulations and all the power to him...by all means.

I wouldn't want him to just be handed a spot because he is known as a
"fan favorite" though.

Thank you a thousand times.

I'm not really in favor of Austin comming back just for PR sake, but if he can really earn his roster spot, then fine. I just get the feeling he will be handed a roster spot and the things some of you tout as good reasons to bring him back... I just don't see.

Naptown_Seth
09-27-2008, 09:41 AM
Um, what?

Cro's a good guy and I'd love him as a 15th man, but if there's two things he DOESN'T bring to the table it's defense and post offense.
I'm excited to see his high flying dunks and no look passes back in a Pacers uniform. Get some excitement going in Conseco again.
:dance:




Cro will beat out McBob if he doesn't get traded.
:ding:

Let's say you had a deal brewing and let's say that might mean you'll need to add a touch of depth to one of the positions going out the door in the deal, you might want to get an old favorite of yours that plays that position back in camp just to make sure your PF depth doesn't get too thin.

Tom White
09-27-2008, 09:45 AM
I can see this scenario taking place.

Some have said that Croshere has maintained a residence in Indpls, even though he has been gone a couple years, and is a California guy. This tells me he has a fond feeling for the city, and for the team he was a part of for nine years.

With that in mind:

Croshere is signed to a minimum contract by the Pacers. This allows him to then announce his retirement as an Indiana Pacer.

Something tells me it would be meaningful to him to be able to do that.

Perhaps he would then be hired by the team in some front office capacity, or as an assistant coach.

Just a thought.

Anthem
09-27-2008, 10:32 AM
Croshere is signed to a minimum contract by the Pacers. This allows him to then announce his retirement as an Indiana Pacer.
Not a Redickulous thought.

Hicks
09-27-2008, 10:45 AM
I'd take him over McRoberts because I have no faith in him, but that still makes it Cro vs. Maceo. I could take either one. Sentimentality makes me lean Croshere, though.

Putnam
09-27-2008, 11:05 AM
I like Tom White's idea best. Giving Croshere a Pacers' retirement might be a classy thing for the Pacers' organization to do. He did have some good games with the Pacers back in the last millenium.

The difference between Croshere, McRoberts and Baston as our third-string power forward in the new season isn't significant.


I'm going back to Pacers.com where I will continue to compulsively refresh the screen day and night until Conrad Brunner takes pity and removes David Harrison's name from the roster.

Good Day.

dal9
09-27-2008, 12:33 PM
.I think he will help out GREATLY in the post and defense wise..





?!


----


Everybody is talking, though, like the dude's 40 or something. He's only 33/4.

Its not impossible he can still play.

maragin
09-27-2008, 01:11 PM
Not a fan of Croshere. Every game I watched that he did well, I secretly hoped other teams would see it and want to trade for him. Every game he sucked it up, my dreams were haunted by bad baseline jabsteps.

I appreciate his services for our team, but like Baby Al, he's an ex I don't want back in my life.

McKeyFan
09-27-2008, 01:15 PM
I'd like to have Croshere back.

He could turn into a poor man's P.J Brown and get a key rebound at the end of games. Or hit a big shot.

Or not.

dohman
09-27-2008, 02:09 PM
The Pacers do need to make some PR moves. I am sorry but our 15th spot isnt going to mean much on the court. Jim is going to play a 9 man rotation and that puts Cro a few players back. If we can make fans happy with the move why not.

Anthem
09-27-2008, 02:35 PM
Everybody is talking, though, like the dude's 40 or something. He's only 33/4.

Its not impossible he can still play.
He's got a non-guaranteed offer to attend training camp. That means nobody else in the league was willing to sign him for the veteran's minimum.

Heck, even WE weren't willing to sign him to the veteran's minimum... we're making him try out against McBob. If he doesn't catch on with us, he's out of the league. Nobody else wants him.

It's not that he's old and washed up, it's that he was never really that great anyway. And he hasn't improved in the last 10 years, so he's not going to suddenly improve from now on out. Most teams would rather get a guy with some upside in a 15th man.

croz24
09-27-2008, 03:03 PM
croshere's a "fan favorite"? wow. i always hated the guy...

BlueNGold
09-27-2008, 03:22 PM
We could probably use him...although he is a bit duplicative. I think he's slightly better on defense as compared to Murphy...so he's not going to shore that up. But you never know with injuries. If Murphy goes down, he could step right in and produce...where McBob might be a total bust. If there is a good chance McBob can bring a similar game, then you keep McBob. Otherwise, bye bye Josh...

ABADays
09-27-2008, 07:47 PM
I can see this scenario taking place.

Some have said that Croshere has maintained a residence in Indpls, even though he has been gone a couple years, and is a California guy. This tells me he has a fond feeling for the city, and for the team he was a part of for nine years.

With that in mind:

Croshere is signed to a minimum contract by the Pacers. This allows him to then announce his retirement as an Indiana Pacer.

Something tells me it would be meaningful to him to be able to do that.

Perhaps he would then be hired by the team in some front office capacity, or as an assistant coach.

Just a thought.

I'd like to see him back and I don't think your retirement idea is at all out of the question.

dal9
09-27-2008, 09:08 PM
He's got a non-guaranteed offer to attend training camp. That means nobody else in the league was willing to sign him for the veteran's minimum.

Heck, even WE weren't willing to sign him to the veteran's minimum... we're making him try out against McBob. If he doesn't catch on with us, he's out of the league. Nobody else wants him.

It's not that he's old and washed up, it's that he was never really that great anyway. And he hasn't improved in the last 10 years, so he's not going to suddenly improve from now on out. Most teams would rather get a guy with some upside in a 15th man.


I think I agree with what you said.

I don't think he's clearly worse than Baston and McBob, though, and if he beats those two guys out, where does that leave him? #4 PF?

Anthem
09-27-2008, 11:38 PM
I think I agree with what you said.

I don't think he's clearly worse than Baston and McBob, though, and if he beats those two guys out, where does that leave him? #4 PF?
If he's better than Baston and McBob (and I really think Baston is better) then he's our 5th best PF, behind Foster, Murphy, Granger, and Shawne.

jeffg-body
09-28-2008, 01:43 AM
I have to agree that it is not a big risk factor and if he flops, it is not a big deal. I do like the idea that if he does get beaten out in training camp that he retire as a Pacer.

Naptown_Seth
09-28-2008, 11:12 AM
Not a Redickulous thought.
The joy this brings me, I can't even begin to tell you.

ChicagoJ
09-29-2008, 11:36 AM
I'd take him over McRoberts because I have no faith in him, but that still makes it Cro vs. Maceo. I could take either one. Sentimentality makes me lean Croshere, though.

How about fact that Croshere, about the same age, has also played about 10,700 more minutes in his career than Baston.

Croshere might not have been worth his huge contract, but he was a legit NBA rotation player.

In Jim O'Brien's system, Croshere might still be a rotation player today. That is a system that might use Austin's stregths and hide his weaknesses better than others.

I think Foster is probably trade sweetner, so a four-player big man rotation of Murphy and Croshere at PF and Hibbert and Nesterovich at C doesn't strike me as any worse than Murphy and Foster at PF and Hibbert and Nestorovich at C. Either way, PF is still our "weakest" position, and Foster is probably the most tradeable - for future value (draft pick or young, rising star) - of those guys.

naptownmenace
09-29-2008, 01:42 PM
Thank you a thousand times.

I'm not really in favor of Austin comming back just for PR sake, but if he can really earn his roster spot, then fine. I just get the feeling he will be handed a roster spot and the things some of you tout as good reasons to bring him back... I just don't see.

I kinda have the same feeling but Austin was always a favorite of mine (ever since that NCAA tourney game against DUKE) who was always a good plus/minus type of guy. His impact doesn't always show up in the box score but he sets good picks, he hustles, and he has a good work ethic.

However, if Baston and/or McRoberts out performs him in training camp, I don't think he should make the roster.

ChicagoJ
09-29-2008, 02:00 PM
I kinda have the same feeling but Austin was always a favorite of mine (ever since that NCAA tourney game against DUKE) who was always a good plus/minus type of guy. His impact doesn't always show up in the box score but he sets good picks, he hustles, and he has a good work ethic.

However, if Baston and/or McRoberts out performs him in training camp, I don't think he should make the roster.

Agreed.

I just think Austin is much, much closer to cracking into an actual NBA rotation than either Baston or McRoberts. With Austin, the question is, "how much has he lost"? With Baston and McRoberts, it is, "will they ever be rotation players in the NBA?"

And even if Austin has lost too much, that still doesn't mean Baston and McRoberts are ready to play.

I think the real question is this: If Croshere, without a guaranteed contract, outplays those two guys, will they still keep the guys with guaranteed contracts? I think that is a more likely scenario than the other two guys outlplaying Austin.

Speed
09-29-2008, 03:23 PM
Do we know if everyone showed up for Media day, is everyone in town? I can't find anything reporting on it, yet.

Anthem
09-29-2008, 03:41 PM
I just think Austin is much, much closer to cracking into an actual NBA rotation than either Baston or McRoberts. With Austin, the question is, "how much has he lost"? With Baston and McRoberts, it is, "will they ever be rotation players in the NBA?"
What Austin's lost is a ridiculous salary that dictated he never be cut. He'd have been solidly planted in the third string most of the time he was here, if not for the near-universal desire to get some production out of a guy making that much money.

indygeezer
09-29-2008, 03:53 PM
With AC you get a guy that can hit a &*^%$#& freethrow.

Justin Tyme
09-29-2008, 06:07 PM
I just think Austin is much, much closer to cracking into an actual NBA rotation than either Baston or McRoberts. With Austin, the question is, "how much has he lost"? With Baston and McRoberts, it is, "will they ever be rotation players in the NBA?"

I think the real question is this: If Croshere, without a guaranteed contract, outplays those two guys, will they still keep the guys with guaranteed contracts? I think that is a more likely scenario than the other two guys outlplaying Austin.

Well put!

It's a real possibility.

I just don't see what everyone's fascination with Baston is! He'll be back in Europe next year, b/c no NBA team will sign him. The ONLY reason he's here in the NBA is Bird after 2 years of scouting in Europe offered him a contract. Baston's mark in the NBA has already been made.... as an expiring contract trade filler in the JO trade.

ChicagoJ
09-29-2008, 06:18 PM
With AC you get a guy that can hit a &*^%$#& freethrow.

Hell, for all the grief he gets about being "streaky", he still shoots a pretty damn good 3FG% for a PF (34% career, 36% last season).

I can live with him as Murphy's backup until we get real help at PF in next year's draft. He'll stretch the court nicely and give the team a veteran guy-that-can-make-plays presence in the fourth quarter.

ABADays
09-29-2008, 08:52 PM
With AC you get a guy that can hit a &*^%$#& freethrow.

Amen to that.

Anthem
09-29-2008, 09:07 PM
The joy this brings me, I can't even begin to tell you.
Whatever happened to that guy anyway? Did he change his name and stick around, or drop off the face of the forum?

Haggard
10-01-2008, 12:23 AM
I dont see why we would want him back. Sure he spent 9 long seasons on the team but the fact he can't keep a spot anywhere else in the league has to mean something.

Will Galen
10-01-2008, 12:53 AM
. . . but the fact he can't keep a spot anywhere else in the league has to mean something.

He was a free agent invited to other camps. I'd bet a bucket of money one of those teams was Donnie's Knicks. I think he'll make the team pretty easy.

Hicks
10-01-2008, 08:08 AM
I didn't realize Indiana was 30th in the league in attracting even backup PFs to training camp..... re: "can't keep a spot anywhere"

MagicRat
10-01-2008, 08:16 AM
In the paper this morning JOB said Austin had the best practice of anyone yesterday.........

grace
10-01-2008, 08:50 AM
In the paper this morning JOB said Austin had the best practice of anyone yesterday.........

Does anyone else think that's just sad?

bellisimo
10-01-2008, 08:59 AM
In the paper this morning JOB said Austin had the best practice of anyone yesterday.........

are we really talking about....


http://images.usatoday.com/sports/nba/_photos2/2002-05-07-iverson2.jpg

Hicks
10-01-2008, 09:06 AM
Does anyone else think that's just sad?

No because apparently he was "on fire" with his shots. Pretty much any time you're hitting "every" shot, you're going to look great as long as you're hustling.

Justin Tyme
10-01-2008, 09:11 AM
Does anyone else think that's just sad?


I want to feel optimistic about this team, but I have to agree with you grace.

BillS
10-01-2008, 10:05 AM
Does anyone else think that's just sad?


I want to feel optimistic about this team, but I have to agree with you grace.

Man, you guys crash easily.

I don't expect that was a backhand slam at anyone else, it was a compliment to how much Austin wants the roster spot. He has nothing to lose if he blows something out and everything to gain, so of course he'll be more intense.

I'd bet his intensity actually lifted other people's intensity - which is NOT to say everyone would have been moping around or goofing off without him there, just that it isn't easy to get psyched about the first of many practices and having a reason to do so (or feeding off someone with that reason) is great.

When Cro has been on in the past, he has been really <i><b>on</b></i>. If this was one of those days, he'd be impressive - not because he was better than the top players but because he was so much better than expectations.

NuffSaid
10-01-2008, 10:47 AM
The joy this brings me, I can't even begin to tell you.
I think you'd better start talking, Mister. :-p

I'm okay w/Austin returning, but like others have said only for the vet minimum. He got his multi-million dollar payday the last time around. I do, however, have a problem with his "don't waste my time" comment. Still, I think we all can dycipher what's really going on here...

Per this IndyStar.com article (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080930/SPORTS04/809300384/1088/SPORTS04), Austin had opportunities to try out elsewhere, but decided to give the Pacers another try w/the "understanding" that he'd get significant playing time (code for: "He'll be the B/U-PF"). Bird's comments of a potential deal taking place this week to be rid of TinMan is a clear indication that the Pacers are trying to make room for Austin's return. Again, I'm fine w/him returning because he does bring some experience to the PF spot...not alot, but more than the Pacers had w/o him. It'll be like having a double-dose of Troy Murphy only I hope Troy comes back and plays in much the same way as he ended the season - aggressive w/a chip on his shoulders. But I digress.

Don't have a problem with Austin returning, just lose the attitude, fella. The way I see it, it's a win-win for both sides. Austin has a "chance" to "earn" a roster spot and do what he'd like to do - retire as a Pacer - and the Pacers shore-up the 4-spot. I'm cool with 'dat. :cool:

Speed
10-01-2008, 11:34 AM
I think we are forgetting Isiah starting Austin vs Shaq years ago when JO was in the dog house.

Maybe Austin is your new starting center. :D

NuffSaid
10-01-2008, 12:29 PM
That was so yesterday, dude! Shaq's not exactly the same Shaq he use to be, nor is Croshere for that matter. Besides, I doubt you want Croshere going up against today's Bigs for 82 games. He'd get killed out there!

Anthem
10-01-2008, 01:45 PM
When Cro has been on in the past, he has been really <i><b>on</b></i>.
Conversely, when he's off he's really off. And he tends to have more off days than on.

But I'm glad he did well in practice yesterday. I still don't think we need a backup PF, but I guess that's just me.

Unclebuck
10-01-2008, 01:51 PM
I certainly could see OB playing Cro and Murphy together at the big positions (as long as the other team doesn't have a big that needs to be defended in a one-on-one situation). But offensively Cro and Murph would really disrupt the opponents defense

Justin Tyme
10-01-2008, 01:52 PM
I don't have a problem with Cro coming back. If he does, he truly has to have earned the spot, and not for the sentimental favorite PR good guy spiel. The Pacers owe him nothing... he was paid handsomely while he was a Pacer.

count55
10-01-2008, 02:10 PM
I think you'd better start talking, Mister. :-p

I'm okay w/Austin returning, but like others have said only for the vet minimum. He got his multi-million dollar payday the last time around. I do, however, have a problem with his "don't waste my time" comment. Still, I think we all can dycipher what's really going on here...

Per this IndyStar.com article (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080930/SPORTS04/809300384/1088/SPORTS04), Austin had opportunities to try out elsewhere, but decided to give the Pacers another try w/the "understanding" that he'd get significant playing time (code for: "He'll be the B/U-PF"). Bird's comments of a potential deal taking place this week to be rid of TinMan is a clear indication that the Pacers are trying to make room for Austin's return. Again, I'm fine w/him returning because he does bring some experience to the PF spot...not alot, but more than the Pacers had w/o him. It'll be like having a double-dose of Troy Murphy only I hope Troy comes back and plays in much the same way as he ended the season - aggressive w/a chip on his shoulders. But I digress.

Don't have a problem with Austin returning, just lose the attitude, fella. The way I see it, it's a win-win for both sides. Austin has a "chance" to "earn" a roster spot and do what he'd like to do - retire as a Pacer - and the Pacers shore-up the 4-spot. I'm cool with 'dat. :cool:

Austin was/is looking at a team with 16 guaranteed contracts. Generally, it would be a waste of a player's time to come into that without either guaranteed money or the serious belief that he had a shot at making the roster. It would also generally be a waste of time for the team. His point is that he wants a job somewhere, and if Indy isn't serious about keeping him, then he'd want to look somewhere else.

Dr. Goldfoot
10-01-2008, 02:36 PM
In the paper this morning JOB said Austin had the best practice of anyone yesterday.........

I think this is all spin. :bs:

Roaming Gnome
10-01-2008, 04:08 PM
I think this is all spin. :bs:

Not that I dispute what you are saying... But, why would they have to sell him? Just hearing Austin is back is enough to put a spring into any casual fans step. Personally, I'm not on board with "giving" Austin anything, but if he does earn a spot where 2 guys have to be cut to accomodate him being on the roster... I guess I will have to dig it.

Honestly, there is no reason to spin him having a good practice... Most fans would welcome him back, regardless.

Dr. Goldfoot
10-01-2008, 04:23 PM
They're showing you that he's "earning" his spot and they're not just giving him the spot in a dastardly plan to placate some casual fans who remember the good ol' days of Crosh.

Roaming Gnome
10-01-2008, 07:16 PM
They're showing you that he's "earning" his spot and they're not just giving him the spot in a dastardly plan to placate some casual fans who remember the good ol' days of Crosh.

But... Why do they have to sell it to the casual fan that "remembers the good ol' days of Crosh."? The only people that need to be sold are the ones that don't think Crosh is worth cutting two guys for. Those people are few and far between. IMHO, they don't really need to run "bs" up the pole for Cro.

I guess it will all come out in the Pre-season games, unless he doesn't play in them and we're suppose to take his training camp practices as gospel.

Haggard
10-01-2008, 09:53 PM
I didn't realize Indiana was 30th in the league in attracting even backup PFs to training camp..... re: "can't keep a spot anywhere"

are you telling me that he hasn't been a journeyman since his departure from here?

Hicks
10-01-2008, 10:07 PM
are you telling me that he hasn't been a journeyman since his departure from here?

He's signed with a team as a free agent exactly once before coming back to Indiana.

Haggard
10-01-2008, 10:56 PM
He's signed with a team as a free agent exactly once before coming back to Indiana.

There must be a reason Dallas let him go and Golden State let him go. The dude has played for 3 teams in as many seasons. If he was worth filling the bench you would think that one of these teams would have tried to keep him. I don't see him contributing to this team, i don't see him making this team.

Dr. Goldfoot
10-02-2008, 12:02 PM
But... Why do they have to sell it to the casual fan that "remembers the good ol' days of Crosh."? The only people that need to be sold are the ones that don't think Crosh is worth cutting two guys for. Those people are few and far between. IMHO, they don't really need to run "bs" up the pole for Cro.

I guess it will all come out in the Pre-season games, unless he doesn't play in them and we're suppose to take his training camp practices as gospel.

That's kinda what I meant. Sell to those who think he needs to earn it and know the casual fan didn't even read the quote in the first place.

NuffSaid
10-02-2008, 12:33 PM
They're showing you that he's "earning" his spot and they're not just giving him the spot in a dastardly plan to placate some casual fans who remember the good ol' days of Crosh.
C'mon. That's :bs2: and we all know it. Bird said very plainly "we're bringing back Croshere", not "we're bringing Croshere to training camp for try-outs," and then clarify the need for shoring up the PF position as the reason why (although he did make mention of this need).

Again, I don't have a problem with Croshere returning. I'd just rather they didn't try to sugar coat it. I'm glad he had a great workout and he performed well...perhaps better than expected. That's good! I just think TPTB need to be very careful of giving up two potentially good players (between Williams, McRoberts, Baston and Graham coupled w/Tinsley) for yet another player who has "been here, done that" before.

I'd certainly welcome Croshere back because he didn't do a bad job for us before. Just be careful you don't give up young legs for a bad back.

Roaming Gnome
10-02-2008, 01:08 PM
C'mon. That's :bs2: and we all know it. Bird said very plainly "we're bringing back Croshere", not "we're bringing Croshere to training camp for try-outs," and then clarify the need for shoring up the PF position as the reason why (although he did make mention of this need).

Again, I don't have a problem with Croshere returning. I'd just rather they didn't try to sugar coat it. I'm glad he had a great workout and he performed well...perhaps better than expected. That's good! I just think TPTB need to be very careful of giving up two potentially good players (between Williams, McRoberts, Baston and Graham coupled w/Tinsley) for yet another player who has "been here, done that" before.

I'd certainly welcome Croshere back because he didn't do a bad job for us before. Just be careful you don't give up young legs for a bad back.

I actually thought Bird mentioned bringing back Austin for camp. I need to go back and re-read/listen to the quotes.

JayRedd
10-02-2008, 02:40 PM
I just think TPTB need to be very careful of giving up two potentially good players (between Williams, McRoberts, Baston and Graham coupled w/Tinsley) for yet another player who has "been here, done that" before.

You have nothing to worry about.

Justin Tyme
10-02-2008, 04:10 PM
You have nothing to worry about.


Are you saying Cro won't make the team, or are you saying no 2 players cut will be as good as Cro?

NuffSaid
10-02-2008, 06:48 PM
I actually thought Bird mentioned bringing back Austin for camp. I need to go back and re-read/listen to the quotes.
Go to Bruno's "Caught in the Web" blog and you should find Bird's 4 minute video (http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5700021506) that discusses issues from Granger's contract to training camp there.

Now, here's the interesting thing:

The Pacers do have 16 players currently under contract including Tinsley. They won't buy out Tinsley's contract for obvious reasons - the price tag is too high, BUT they could trade him and easily release any 2-3 players I've mentioned - Williams, McRoberts, Baston or Graham - because none are really considered to be big impact/rotation players, plus they all have 1-year contracts which combined total only $5.38M. They could afford to release Graham and McRoberts, for example, at only $1.5M total and really wouldn't be losing anything in comparison to say paying Croshere the vet mimimum.

Bird: "We're bringing back Croshere this year."

'Nuff Said.

ChicagoJ
10-02-2008, 07:03 PM
I agree. Let's not overplay the "we won't buy out Tinsley" rhetoric. After all, they are already paying him to stay home. Duh.

If they need to cut somebody because that player has been beaten out, they will do so.

They can't say that with Tinsley, because if he were in camp he'd probably outplay Ford and Jack right up until the team started to be addicted to his ballmovement again. And then he would cut off the supply of ballmovement again.

Hicks
10-02-2008, 07:20 PM
Tinsley would not outplay Ford. On their best days, it'd be close, but Ford is better IMO.

JayRedd
10-02-2008, 08:01 PM
Are you saying Cro won't make the team, or are you saying no 2 players cut will be as good as Cro?

I'm saying that none of Williams, McRoberts, Baston and Graham are good players.

All this discussion of "who should go and who should stay" and the inevitable PD furor over what the decision ultimately is will likely be exactly as productive as the thousands upon thousands of words previously dedicated here to James White.












* For those of you scoring at home, that's 41 more for Flight.

indygeezer
10-03-2008, 12:55 AM
Wait, if you "release" a player with a guaranteed contract, doesn't that contract still occupy a roster spot? Otherwise, there would have been hundreds of players released over the years. How would we get Cro on the roster if we still have the 16 guaranteed contracts, unless we do a 2 fer 1 or even a 3fer???


EDIT!!!! Could Cro work out with us, sign with his old team in S&T deal (2 for Cro), or not?? OR...trade the trade exemption for him (don't ask why, it's late and I'm trying to fit all this together).

Will Galen
10-03-2008, 01:55 AM
Wait, if you "release" a player with a guaranteed contract, doesn't that contract still occupy a roster spot?

No. When they are released they are no longer on our roster, but we have to pay them anyway.

grace
10-03-2008, 01:58 AM
Tinsley would not outplay Ford. On their best days, it'd be close, but Ford is better IMO.


It's been so long since Jamaal had a good day I don't remember what it looks like.

ChicagoJ
10-03-2008, 01:23 PM
I do. I didn't watch many games last season, but the Tinsley of last November/ December was pretty damn good.

The Tinsley of 2004 was playing at all-star levels, but he was benched for too much of November/ December to get recognition for it.

The Tinsley of 2005 single-handedly won the playoff series with Boston when he returned from injury.

The question is not about Tinsley's ability, its his dependability, which includes both his mental and physical demons.

On their best days, Tinsley would outplay Ford by a mile. But you only get that about 1/2 of the time or less, so Ford becomes a better choice by default for the long NBA season.

I understand that. But let's not confuse "better for the long NBA season" and "better for this team" with "better player."