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View Full Version : Whisper of trade talk with Sacramento.



blahzay
09-25-2008, 10:39 PM
Hi guys,

How is everyone? Haven't been on here in quite some time but thought I would check in and see what's been happening with the site.

I also wanted to let you all know that a friend of mine who's involved with the Kings told me that an offer was on the table from Sacramento to trade for Tinsley. Word has it that the Kings have offered Indiana Kenny Thomas in exchange for Jamaal Tinsley and Josh McRoberts. The Pacers have replied stating that they would consider it if Sacramento would take back Shawne Williams instead of McRoberts. Apparently, the Pacers have also asked for Donte Green to be included.

This would make it a Jamaal Tinsley and Shawne Williams for Kenny Thomas and Donte Green.

Sacramento have since replied that they would only consider the deal if Indiana were to include an unprotected future first round pick (not sure what year).

He also told me that it has been quiet about this deal in the last week or so, makes me wonder though.

I believe there is a still a while left until Donte Green can be traded again, can anyone let me know a date when he can be re-traded by the kings?

Anyway, just thought I'd let you know what rumblings I'd heard. As a lot of you would know, I don't provide links since this is info I get occasionally from people. Don't ask for a link as refusal often offends :-p

Blah...

Los Angeles
09-25-2008, 10:44 PM
I'm sure there are tidbits like this with every team. It is no secret that Tinsley is being shopped.

(Does that qualify for understatement of the millennia?)

blahzay
09-25-2008, 10:51 PM
I'm sure there are tidbits like this with every team. It is no secret that Tinsley is being shopped.

(Does that qualify for understatement of the millennia?)

It may be close :hmm:

Swingman
09-25-2008, 11:01 PM
Why would the Pacers even think about giving up an unprotected first rounder? Is Donte Green any good?

blahzay
09-25-2008, 11:05 PM
Why would the Pacers even think about giving up an unprotected first rounder? Is Donte Green any good?

He played very well in the summer league league (40 points one game and backed up with 38 or something to that effect in the next game) but aside from that I know very little about him. He was with Houston then and was part of the Ron Artest deal. I don't wanna say much about him cuz honestly, I don't know.

blahzay
09-25-2008, 11:06 PM
Why would the Pacers even think about giving up an unprotected first rounder? Is Donte Green any good?

I don't know if they would, that may have been why the talks died down, not sure.

Hicks
09-25-2008, 11:10 PM
I'd just do the Tinsley/McRoberts for Thomas deal and be done with it. I would not trade any first round picks and I know nothing about Greene.

*edit* I just looked: Thomas makes more money than Tinsley per year, BUT his contract ENDS a year earlier. We should do this. The first trade, that is.

Of course, the fact that it's "out" probably means it's dead.

Anthem
09-25-2008, 11:19 PM
I'd just do the Tinsley/McRoberts for Thomas deal and be done with it. I would not trade any first round picks and I know nothing about Greene.

*edit* I just looked: Thomas makes more money than Tinsley per year, BUT his contract ENDS a year earlier. We should do this. The first trade, that is.

Of course, the fact that it's "out" probably means it's dead.
Yep, agreed. Especially if picks are involved.

Smoothdave1
09-25-2008, 11:33 PM
Green cannot be traded for a few weeks (10/14/2008). However, I could see a deal along the lines of:

Tinlsey, Williams & 2nd for Thomas & Green

Tinsley & Williams for Thomas and a future 2nd

No way do the Pacers give up a 1st rounder in the deal.

d_c
09-25-2008, 11:38 PM
Green cannot be traded for a few weeks (10/14/2008). However, I could see a deal along the lines of:

Tinlsey, Williams & 2nd for Thomas & Green

Tinsley & Williams for Thomas and a future 2nd

No way do the Pacers give up a 1st rounder in the deal.

I don't see a deal happening between the two teams. The Kings are going to insist upon a 1st round pick because otherwise they aren't going to want Tinsley's additional year when they already signed Udrih to a full MLE deal.

The Pacers probably will refuse to give up any 1st round picks and 2nd round picks really aren't worth more than pocket lint in most trade talks. Looking at it from both perspectives, I don't see either team budging and therefore no deal.

croz24
09-26-2008, 12:16 AM
donte greene has much more pro potential imo than rush and i honestly would have drafted him ahead of rush.

Kemo
09-26-2008, 12:23 AM
it doesn't matter what deal is done... because the FACT of the matter is there are

16 players on our roster.. and the ONLY way it will work is if we do a 2 for 1 deal or a 3 for 2 deal .. otherwise McBob or Baston will have to be cut/ bought out .. before the season starts

It makes absolutely no sense trading a 1 for 1 or 2 for 2 in any deal really... because we would still have a roster of 16

Kamiyohk
09-26-2008, 01:23 AM
Jamaal Tinsley (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/105/jamaal_tinsley/) + Josh McRoberts (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/1346/josh_mcroberts/) + Maceo Baston (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/553/maceo_baston/) + Shawne Williams (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/672/shawne_williams/) + 1st round=Kenny Thomas (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/280/kenny_thomas/) + Shelden Williams (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/660/shelden_williams/) + Donte Greene (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/1418/donte_greene/)
good deal

Kuq_e_Zi91
09-26-2008, 01:29 AM
Kemo is right. I think we'd be asking too much if we insist for Greene. Yeah, he has potential but he plays on the wing...do we need another? Let's just trade Tinsley and get a short contract in return. If the Kings want McRoberts..give it to them and call it a day. What's that saying? Beggers can't be choosers.

I doubt this trade though. I'm just really skeptical the Kings would trade a shorter contract for Jamaal Tinsley and his contract. Especially when they just committed to Udrih, and paid him well.

Eindar
09-26-2008, 04:55 AM
Kenny Thomas has one of the worst contracts in the league. I'd say he has less value than Tinsley, simply because, in theory, Tinsley could stay healthy and out of trouble somewhere else. KT is going to be a 2 year turd sandwich wherever he goes.

I think it's fair to ask for a Williams/Greene swap to even out the trade, in a vacuum at least. The problem is the the Pacers have a lot more pressure on them from their fan base to move Tinsley than Sacramento has to move Thomas. So I think the deal that is most realistic is Tinsley and McBob for Kenny Thomas and a future 2nd round pick.

Mourning
09-26-2008, 05:57 AM
I would do a Jamaal and McBob for Thomas trade too. We skip a year and get rid of a PR-disaster and malcontent, what's not too like? IF KT could play 10-15 meaningfull minutes I would be happy allready.

Make it happen, Larry! :woohoo:

NapTonius Monk
09-26-2008, 07:42 AM
I'd say we might have to give up the draft pick to move Tinsley. I'd really try to slip em the mickey and ask for Jason Thompson, but that would never happen. We have enough assets now to try to get back in whatever draft we give up in this trade. Plus, if they throw in Donte Green, we get even younger with yet another player from 2008 1st round. Do you think their request to swap Williams for McBob is a statement of how much they want Shawne gone, or of how much they want McBob to stay?

NapTonius Monk
09-26-2008, 07:54 AM
Why would the Pacers even think about giving up an unprotected first rounder? Is Donte Green any good?

He was at Syracuse, but how that translates into the pros is anyone's guess. I'd say he has as much potential as Shawne.

NapTonius Monk
09-26-2008, 08:00 AM
I forgot that Sacto brought Bobby Jackson back. Not too sure why they'd take Jamaal, when they have Udrih and Jackson already.

Phree Refill
09-26-2008, 08:09 AM
Do you think their request to swap Williams for McBob is a statement of how much they want Shawne gone, or of how much they want McBob to stay?

I'd say its both. McBob will create interest around Indy simply cause he went to highschool here. I'm sure many fans are just waiting for shawne to screw up again. It still amazes me that even AFTER Larry said shawne was on thin ice his name ended up in the headlines again. Granted it wasn't exactly something he could control but he could have at least not put himself in that situation. Bottom line is, McBob= More hometown intereset. Shawne not so much.

MillerTime
09-26-2008, 09:41 AM
I just checked, and Greene could be traded right now but not with another player. If it was a one for one deal, it would be ok. Personally, I'd rather get rid of McRoberts rather than Shawne Williams. Getting Greene would be good for our team. Hes 6'11" and 226 lbs. He can shoot the 3 put his post moves dont seem to be too good. Hes would definately be a PF in our system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boHoWTUqHLs

In Syracuse he averaged 17.7 points and just over 7 rebs in 35 games. But us giving up a first round draft pick would NEVER happen, thats just out of question. Kenny Thomas is making more than Tinsley and has one year less than him.

Do it Bird

Major Cold
09-26-2008, 09:48 AM
Hometown interests is highly overrated.

Get rid of Tinsley, that is the only way to sell more tickets. Oh yeah and win.

Jonathan
09-26-2008, 09:54 AM
Getting rid of Shawne Williams and Tinsley would be a great PR move for the organization. If we have to trade a first rounder (not lottery) and take on Thomas to do the deal. I am fine with that. Shawne Williams could have had a breakout year this year for us. He has a great NBA Body (long & lean) He also shoots the three pointer with ease. If he could improve his post game their is not reason why he wouldn't play twenty minutes a night for us.

avoidingtheclowns
09-26-2008, 10:30 AM
while i agree with those that find this puzzling on sacto's end...

i'd try structuring a deal without donte. to me a deal along the lines of tinsley, shawne and maceo for kenny and shelden makes more sense for both. it would leave us with 15 players, give us a young PF we don't have to extend and we'd be moving tinsley. no need wasting a draft pick if we don't have to on donte. i suppose you could also convince them by taking mikki moore's deal off their hands (tinsley, quis, baston for kenny and mikki).

like i said before, i don't really see why sacto would have interest in tinsley.

OakMoses
09-26-2008, 10:31 AM
I don't think this trade will happen, but it's worth pointing out that Kenny Thomas did play for O'Brien in Philly before the Webber trade.

He was decent: 11 pts, 6.5 rebs, 1.6 asts, 1 stl per game in about 28 minutes.

He's not a terrible player, he just has a terrible contract. A poor man's Troy Murphy, you could say.

CableKC
09-26-2008, 10:49 AM
I don't think this trade will happen, but it's worth pointing out that Kenny Thomas did play for O'Brien in Philly before the Webber trade.

He was decent: 11 pts, 6.5 rebs, 1.6 asts, 1 stl per game in about 28 minutes.

He's not a terrible player, he just has a terrible contract. A poor man's Troy Murphy, you could say.
Although I highly doubt that this would happen......I disagree on your assessment of Kenny Thomas for the very reason that he is NOT Jamaal Tinsley. As for Kenny Thomas contract......how is that any worse then Tinsley's contract?

Also.......Kenny Thomas IS NOT a poor man's Troy Murphy. Murphy is more of a finesse inside/out jumpshooting Big Man whereas Kenny Thomas is more of a "close to the basket/inside" SF/PF.

Shade
09-26-2008, 10:50 AM
Thanks for the heads-up, blahz. :)

With that said, if this is true...


Word has it that the Kings have offered Indiana Kenny Thomas in exchange for Jamaal Tinsley and Josh McRoberts. The Pacers have replied stating that they would consider it if Sacramento would take back Shawne Williams instead of McRoberts.

...I'm going to drive full-throttle through Conseco. McBob will never even be as good as Shawne is right now.

Yeah, yeah, I know that TPTB want to get rid of Shawne for PR reasons, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

Oh, and this little gem...


Sacramento have since replied that they would only consider the deal if Indiana were to include an unprotected future first round pick (not sure what year)....tells me that the Kings are on crack. Donte friggin' Green for an unprotected first? :lol:

count55
09-26-2008, 10:53 AM
Although I highly doubt that this would happen......I disagree on your assessment of Kenny Thomas for the very reason that he is NOT Jamaal Tinsley. As for Kenny Thomas contract......how is that any worse then Tinsley's contract?

Also.......Kenny Thomas IS NOT a poor man's Troy Murphy. Murphy is more of a finesse inside/out jumpshooting Big Man whereas Kenny Thomas is more of a "close to the basket/inside" SF/PF.

While I agree with everything else, I think he was saying "poor man's Murph" in relation to the fact that his contract so overwhelms his performance...not stylistically.

CableKC
09-26-2008, 10:54 AM
Sorry to doubt your post blahzay....but it's very difficult to believe that the Kings have interest in Tinsley when they already have Beno signed to a similiar contract and Bobby Jackson back in the fold. I also thought that the Kings wanted to be in the 2010 FA Sweepstakes....adding Tinsley seems to negate that. On top of that.....I have no clue why Bird would be hesitant to move McRoberts and swap in Shawne IF the Kings are asking for him EVEN if Shawne is on thin ice. To me...it seems like an odd counter-offer from Bird since McRoberts will likely be an "end of the bench" player.

Again....I really hope that there is some truth to this....but until VF21 comes onboard and verifies any of this....I'm not going to keep my hopes up.....Petrie is supposed to be WAY smarter then this.

MillerTime
09-26-2008, 10:59 AM
Thanks for the heads-up, blahz. :)

With that said, if this is true...



...I'm going to drive full-throttle through Conseco. McBob will never even be as good as Shawne is right now.

Yeah, yeah, I know that TPTB want to get rid of Shawne for PR reasons, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

Oh, and this little gem...

...tells me that the Kings are on crack. Donte friggin' Green for an unprotected first? :lol:

I agree with you. I would keep Williams over McRoberts anyday. From watching a bit of video of McRoberts, he doesnt seem good enough for the NBA. If we had a choice to send Williams or McRoberts, it shouldnt even be a question. SEND McROBERTS

avoidingtheclowns
09-26-2008, 11:02 AM
...I'm going to drive full-throttle through Conseco. McBob will never even be as good as Shawne is right now.

Yeah, yeah, I know that TPTB want to get rid of Shawne for PR reasons, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

they're not just dumping shawne, they're asking for donte back. so its more a donte vs. shawne thing than a shawne vs. mcbob.


Oh, and this little gem...

...tells me that the Kings are on crack. Donte friggin' Green for an unprotected first? :lol:
remind me how many picks james white was worth to portland...

Shade
09-26-2008, 11:09 AM
they're not just dumping shawne, they're asking for donte back. so its more a donte vs. shawne thing than a shawne vs. mcbob.

Correction: Williams AND an unprotected first for Donte Green.

Man, that makes it look infinitely worse now.


remind me how many picks james white was worth to portland...Unprotected #1's, especially from a lottery team >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 #2 picks

CableKC
09-26-2008, 11:13 AM
I agree with you. I would keep Williams over McRoberts anyday. From watching a bit of video of McRoberts, he doesnt seem good enough for the NBA. If we had a choice to send Williams or McRoberts, it shouldnt even be a question. SEND McROBERTS
As far as I am concerned......McRoberts or Shawne would not be a sticking point for me.

IF the Kings TRULY has asked for Tinsley+McRoberts for Kenny Thomas.....you don't quibble over swapping out Shawne for McRoberts much less ask for Donta Greene ( who the Kings just traded for by moving Artest ).....you take the deal and run before Petrie has time to take his meds.

Shade
09-26-2008, 11:16 AM
As far as I am concerned......McRoberts or Shawne would not be a sticking point for me.

IF the Kings TRULY has asked for Tinsley+McRoberts for Kenny Thomas.....you don't quibble over swapping out Shawne for McRoberts much less ask for Donta Greene ( who the Kings just traded for by moving Artest ).....you take the deal and run before Petrie has time to take his meds.

Kenny Thomas for Tinsley/McBob is a good deal for us. Trying to keep McBob tells me that Bird is putting way too much stock into him, either as a player or a PR move. The guy SUCKS. Period. John Edwards, Take 2.

Oh, and did I mention that McBob is a bit of a malcontent as well? He'll just be the newest pouter at the end of the bench.

Hicks
09-26-2008, 11:19 AM
Bird hinted at this rumor in his press conference. Saying, in regards to the backup PF he wants to get for the team, "We can get him, but it'd cost too much to do it."

MillerTime
09-26-2008, 11:25 AM
Bird hinted at this rumor in his press conference. Saying, in regards to the backup PF he wants to get for the team, "We can get him, but it'd cost too much to do it."

who do you think hes referring to? Do you think thats necessarily Thomas? Costing Tinsley and McRoberts isnt too much, im sure Bird has someone else in mind.

CableKC
09-26-2008, 11:48 AM
who do you think hes referring to? Do you think thats necessarily Thomas? Costing Tinsley and McRoberts isnt too much, im sure Bird has someone else in mind.
Assuming that there is any validity to these Kings/Pacers trade talks....maybe the Kings are asking for Tinsley+Shawne+Unprotected 1st for Kenny Thomas.

Not that Shawne or McRoberts matters......I could care less about which goes.....but the Kings asking for the unprotected 1st......that is the real gem in all this and actually makes more sense to me given that we are talking about Petrie here.

Putting on my speculation hat......it's pretty well known that the Kings have been looking to move Kenny Thomas. I do not know whether they are desperate to the point where they would move him at any cost.......but IF the Kings had any intention of buying him out.....why not try to move him for Tinsley ( who is owed about $5 mil more in guaranteed $$$ ) and ask for a unprotected 1st rounder in return....then negotiate a buyout with Tinsley ( which would have been done with Kenny Thomas anyway ). Although the cost would be about 2-3 mil more......you can look at the bottomline as getting a 1st rounder out of it. I know...it's a stretch here....but Geoff Petrie isn't a GM like Chris Wallace is....he's a pretty shrwed GM. He wouldn't make a stupid trade like this without having an ulterior motive.

pacergod2
09-26-2008, 11:55 AM
Donte Greene is a very good scorer. He is a very capable wing player. I just don't know how he would fit into a rotation with Rush and Granger. He is tall just like Williams but he is a better scorer. Williams is a better defender. The only quam I have with Greene is that he is a selfish player.

The irony of this is that I was looking at this trade the day Shareef Abdur-Rahim retired. I said... I bet Sacramento would actually have the need for a backup point because they are very thin and they were looking to get rid of Kenny Thomas' contract from the day he was included as part of the CWebb trade. I would hate to see the hangup on this deal be wanting to get something more for Shawne Williams than just to get rid of Tinsley. I would really have to consider throwing Greene in for Williams if I am Sacramento because Williams plays bigger than Greene does and they are already stocked with wing players. Kenny Thomas won't play anyway and Tinsley would. Williams is more ready to contribute now than Greene is and fits the age of their young core more than Greene. If I am Indiana I just send McRoberts with Tinsley and get the f----ng thing done.

CableKC
09-26-2008, 12:18 PM
Donte Greene is a very good scorer. He is a very capable wing player. I just don't know how he would fit into a rotation with Rush and Granger. He is tall just like Williams but he is a better scorer. Williams is a better defender. The only quam I have with Greene is that he is a selfish player.

The irony of this is that I was looking at this trade the day Shareef Abdur-Rahim retired. I said... I bet Sacramento would actually have the need for a backup point because they are very thin and they were looking to get rid of Kenny Thomas' contract from the day he was included as part of the CWebb trade. I would hate to see the hangup on this deal be wanting to get something more for Shawne Williams than just to get rid of Tinsley. I would really have to consider throwing Greene in for Williams if I am Sacramento because Williams plays bigger than Greene does and they are already stocked with wing players. Kenny Thomas won't play anyway and Tinsley would. Williams is more ready to contribute now than Greene is and fits the age of their young core more than Greene. If I am Indiana I just send McRoberts with Tinsley and get the f----ng thing done.
If the trade rumor is Kenny Thomas for Tinsley+McRobert ( or Shawne ) AND that's it.....then it would have been done already. There has got to be something else here. No GM that has a shread of ability voluntarily asks for Tinsley without getting something in return.....a unprotected 1st rounder for a Playoff bubble team would fit here.

pacergod2
09-26-2008, 12:21 PM
Also, to reiterate the point that Avoiding made... they didn't want to throw Williams in this trade over McRoberts because they like McRoberts more. It is CLEARLY that they are trying to pry Donte Greene away from Sacto in this deal. Greene would have the highest trade value in this deal.

Tinsley is a MUCH better player than Kenny Thomas. I love the way Kenny Thomas plays and really have liked him throughout his career. But his career is over. He is ineffective now because he relied so heavily on his athleticism to play defense and rebound as a very undersized player. He is worthless in terms of on-court contribution and has an enormous contract. Sacto would be getting a steal in the Tinsley and McRoberts for Thomas deal. Their offset is the extra money on Tinsley's contract, but they would get a player that would contribute for them. Bobby Jackson was brought in to play spot minutes and be a veteran presence until he retires after this year and becomes an assistant coach for Sacramento. Tinsley would come in and be an immediate backup PG for them to a guy that has not played a full year of starter minutes. I think its a great deal for Sacramento.

avoidingtheclowns
09-26-2008, 12:31 PM
Correction: Williams AND an unprotected first for Donte Green.

Man, that makes it look infinitely worse now.

yeah thats what sacto wanted but you were ready to go ape**** if we held mcbob over shawne.



Unprotected #1's, especially from a lottery team >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 #2 picks

i'm not arguing that. i'm saying portland wanted 3 2nd rounders for a guy like james white, what is unreasonable if they're happy with donte for them to want a 1st for him?



who do you think hes referring to? Do you think thats necessarily Thomas? Costing Tinsley and McRoberts isnt too much, im sure Bird has someone else in mind.

nobody wants kenny thomas.

i didn't hear the presser so this is completely unfounded but my best guess is landry. if reports are accurate about preparing to extend an offer, the 3mil a year from the bobcats/rockets would have been too rich for us.

was bird talking about a PF in general or specifically sacto?

CableKC
09-26-2008, 12:45 PM
Also, to reiterate the point that Avoiding made... they didn't want to throw Williams in this trade over McRoberts because they like McRoberts more. It is CLEARLY that they are trying to pry Donte Greene away from Sacto in this deal. Greene would have the highest trade value in this deal.

Tinsley is a MUCH better player than Kenny Thomas. I love the way Kenny Thomas plays and really have liked him throughout his career. But his career is over. He is ineffective now because he relied so heavily on his athleticism to play defense and rebound as a very undersized player. He is worthless in terms of on-court contribution and has an enormous contract. Sacto would be getting a steal in the Tinsley and McRoberts for Thomas deal. Their offset is the extra money on Tinsley's contract, but they would get a player that would contribute for them. Bobby Jackson was brought in to play spot minutes and be a veteran presence until he retires after this year and becomes an assistant coach for Sacramento. Tinsley would come in and be an immediate backup PG for them to a guy that has not played a full year of starter minutes. I think its a great deal for Sacramento.
I'm not saying that Kenny Thomas is any answer for us as a Low-Post PF option....but I would take him over Tinsley any day of the week.

BTW....your opinion of Tinsley is proverbially very "rose-colored". For as many reasons why a team would not want Kenny Thomas.....there are equal if not more reasons not to want a player like Tinsley. At best...this would be a trade of team cancers that may fit some needs for both teams. But in truth....I still question why the Kings would need a player like Tinsley since they committed to ( but IMHO overpaid ) Beno for 4 seasons at a rate of $6 mil per season.....the logic in why the Kings would even consider this escapes me. Given Bird's rather cryptic comments that teams maybe interested in Tinsley ( but at a high cost )....I wouldn't be surprised if there has been some talk regarding this between the Kings/Pacers.....but I really wonder if the cost is the 1st rounder as some have speculated....which IMHO is too high.

Also....I popped into VF21's KingsFan website along with the Kings RealGM forum and found no mention of this anywhere.

Phree Refill
09-26-2008, 03:22 PM
You know what? How bout we just forget kenny thomas all together? Sacramento wants to get rid of Brad Miller right? They are in rebuilding mode and he is an old player and doesn't really mesh with the direction they are going. Granted he is an expiring contract for them but I think they wouldn't mind dumping him. So here's the plan: Tinsley, Williams, Daniels, Graham for Miller and John Salmons. For those who say the kings don't want tinsley cause they have udrih and jackson, well b-jax isn't really a point guard. he's always been a 2 gaurd. tinsley would be a perfect backup for them and be good competition for Beno. The incentive for sactown here is they pick up THREE expiring contracts while getting imediate help. Then we'd have both miller and rasho's contracts coming off teh books next year for some insane cap relief while also picking up a very solid player in salmons. I'm crazy... i know...

Anthem
09-26-2008, 03:58 PM
Bird hinted at this rumor in his press conference. Saying, in regards to the backup PF he wants to get for the team, "We can get him, but it'd cost too much to do it."
Gotta be Landry.

Anthem
09-26-2008, 04:08 PM
You know what? How bout we just forget kenny thomas all together? Sacramento wants to get rid of Brad Miller right? They are in rebuilding mode and he is an old player and doesn't really mesh with the direction they are going. Granted he is an expiring contract for them but I think they wouldn't mind dumping him. So here's the plan: Tinsley, Williams, Daniels, Graham for Miller and John Salmons. For those who say the kings don't want tinsley cause they have udrih and jackson, well b-jax isn't really a point guard. he's always been a 2 gaurd. tinsley would be a perfect backup for them and be good competition for Beno. The incentive for sactown here is they pick up THREE expiring contracts while getting imediate help. Then we'd have both miller and rasho's contracts coming off teh books next year for some insane cap relief while also picking up a very solid player in salmons. I'm crazy... i know...
Brad's not an expiring. He has 2 seasons left.

spreedom
09-26-2008, 04:17 PM
Why would we want Sheldon Williams? The dude won't even be in the league after this season.... I'd honsetly rather keep Roberts or Shawne than pick up that clown.

count55
09-26-2008, 04:27 PM
Gotta be Landry.

That doesn't make sense, because Landry's not available any more. I may be reading to much into the present-tense of Bird's comments. If he said "We can get him, but it'd cost too much," then it implies there is a deal on the table or a player currently available.

Houston just matched Landry's offer sheet, which means he's off the market until at least December 15th.

Again, I may be parsing his comments too finely, particularly given his somewhat flexible relationship with the English language, but it does seem to be a straight forward comment.

Kuq_e_Zi91
09-26-2008, 04:28 PM
Why would we want Sheldon Williams? The dude won't even be in the league after this season.... I'd honsetly rather keep Roberts or Shawne than pick up that clown.

To bring Candace Parker to Conseco, obviously.

Smoothdave1
09-26-2008, 04:33 PM
Did anyone else hear Bird suggest that a deal may be done in a few days? It seemed as though there are a few potential deals out there that they are muling over.

Maybe a deal with Tinsley and Rasho for Brad Miller and someone else?

blanket
09-26-2008, 05:06 PM
Bird hinted at this rumor in his press conference. Saying, in regards to the backup PF he wants to get for the team, "We can get him, but it'd cost too much to do it."

Sounds more like Udonis Haslem than Kenny Thomas to me.

Miami probably wants Tinsley, Foster and a pick for Haslem and Banks.

count55
09-26-2008, 05:22 PM
Sounds more like Udonis Haslem than Kenny Thomas to me.

This sounds more likely than Landry or Thomas to me, but I'd be surprised that he'd refer to Haslem as a "backup". Maybe it's Blount they're eying.

Hicks
09-26-2008, 05:58 PM
Gotta be Landry.

It can't be Landry. He's signed a contract offer.

NapTonius Monk
09-26-2008, 07:08 PM
Why would we want Sheldon Williams? The dude won't even be in the league after this season.... I'd honsetly rather keep Roberts or Shawne than pick up that clown.

http:////s3.amazonaws.com/coolspotters2_development/photos/11267/dCce7Bc7edaE8Bf3__profile.jpg

To have this precious woman in the stands is enough reason for me. How did he land Candace Parker?

CableKC
09-26-2008, 07:11 PM
Did anyone else hear Bird suggest that a deal may be done in a few days? It seemed as though there are a few potential deals out there that they are muling over.

Maybe a deal with Tinsley and Rasho for Brad Miller and someone else?
There is no realistic deal with the Kings that we can make involving Tinsley+Rasho and Brad that the Kings would be willing to do ( the Kings take on way more guaranteed $$$ then they send out ) that wouldn't mess up our 2009-2010 Capspace ( which is needed to resign Granger/Jack ). They could package Brad+Kenny Thomas and we can throw in Rasho+Marquis+Tinsley...but that would mess us up real bad next season.

Financially, a Tinsley+Marquis+$3mil cash ( to balence out the amount of $$$ guaranteed paid that we are sending out and they are taking in ) for Brad would be the best that we can come up with....but since the Kings have no need of Marquis nor are they that desperate to get rid of Brad, I doubt that it could happen.

Pacerized
09-26-2008, 09:06 PM
Tinsley, Murphy, and Maceo for Brad, and Kenny would work. I don't see the Kings wanting the extra year on Tinsley and Murphy though. It would be a close trade talent wise. Each team gets an overpaid often injured player, and each team gets a big man who is overpaid for their production. Tinsley offers a lot more then Kenny would if healthy and Brad offers more then Murphy.

MillerTime
09-26-2008, 10:28 PM
I think this is the perfect trade idea (well coming from Sac). Tinsley + Murphy + McRoberts + Baston for Sheldon Williams + Brad Miller + Kenny Thomas http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=44~3220~1013~1024~556~849~3040&teams=23~23~23~23~11~11~11&te=&cash=

Ford/Jack/Diener
Dunleavy/Rush/Daniels
Granger/Williams
Thomas/Foster
Brad Miller/Rasho/Hibbert

Poor Hibbert will be at the end of the rotation though

d_c
09-26-2008, 10:50 PM
I think this is the perfect trade idea (well coming from Sac). Tinsley + Murphy + McRoberts + Baston for Sheldon Williams + Brad Miller + Kenny Thomas http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=44~3220~1013~1024~556~849~3040&teams=23~23~23~23~11~11~11&te=&cash= (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=44%7E3220%7E1013%7E1024%7E556% 7E849%7E3040&teams=23%7E23%7E23%7E23%7E11%7E11%7E11&te=&cash=)


Still comes back to the same basic thing: Sacramento won't trade 2 year contracts in exchange for 3 year contracts. They're just like most teams in the league gearing up for the FA class of 2010 and don't want contracts that run through that year. And of course that's the part where they're going to be asking for 1st round picks from the Pacers (And rightly so).

Again, I don't see either team budging from their stances. It's pretty much why most trade talks in the NBA wind up with no trade.

BobbyMac
09-26-2008, 11:11 PM
I don't believe we are going to trade Murphy...And I think he's a better player than you folks are giving him credit for. (I know bad english, sorry)

kester99
09-26-2008, 11:20 PM
Agree on on Murph...and if dangling participles were the worst grammatical fault we had to deal with on PD....well, I wouldn't sweat it.

In general, if we're to pair JT with another player for a 2-for-1 trade, (which LB referred to recently) I'd really rather Marquise were the 2nd player. I was seriously disappointed with his game last year. There just wasn't much go-to value there. Maybe he still has some cred out there in the league, though.

Will Galen
09-27-2008, 12:27 AM
Gotta be Landry.

Nope, that's not possible. When a team exercises a right of first refusal on a player as Houston did with Landry, they can't trade him for a year without his consent. I'm thinking the player Bird wanted was probably Miami's Haslem.


Houston just matched Landry's offer sheet, which means he's off the market until at least December 15th.

That's true for signing most free agent's, but when a team match's an offer they can't trade him for a year without his consent.

Go here http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/trademachine

then click on Landry's (TR)

ChicagoJ
09-27-2008, 01:23 AM
Get rid of Tinsley and Williams, take back Kenny Thomas, who is capable of playing the game, even if he isn't worth his contract, and get back Greene, who might have upside.

And you won't throw in a first-rounder to make all of those things come true?

:crazy:

Hicks
09-27-2008, 09:12 AM
Wait. The guy who thinks we'll have a top 5 pick this summer wants to give it away?

Naptown_Seth
09-27-2008, 09:51 AM
He was at Syracuse, but how that translates into the pros is anyone's guess. I'd say he has as much potential as Shawne.
I watched him quite a bit in preparation for the draft this year and I wasn't that impressed. He came across as your standard tweener SF/PF that's more than athletic enough to hurt guys in college but turns into a generic bench guy in the pros.

To me Shawne is more athletic going to the rim, weaker in the post, has a much better looking long jumper. I know the Pacers are working PR aspects but to me it's just dumb to force Shawne out the door as though his PR stuff is a major hit given his limited minutes and the nature of what he's technically done up to now.

Tins has to go now, Shawne does not. You pull the trigger on Tins/McBob in order to just move Tins. Thomas doesn't need to play a single minute because you are already prepared to just tell Tins to stay home and get a paycheck.


I'm with you Hicks, we don't need another Harrington disaster where the team struggles and doesn't even have the hype of the draft to keep fans interested. Jay just wants Shawne gone I think. Greene got lots of hype but then turned into only a moderate impact guy by the end of the year. I don't think he does any particular skill at a strong NBA level. As I mentioned, at the very least Shawne can come in and knock down NBA 3's at a good clip. Plus it's not like Shawne is old. He could still be in college at this point too.

Tom White
09-27-2008, 09:55 AM
Financially, a Tinsley+Marquis+$3mil cash ( to balence out the amount of $$$ guaranteed paid that we are sending out and they are taking in )

I don't think you can do that. If I am correct, you can throw in money as an enticement to the other team, but not to balance out the contracts.

Oh wait, are you meaning to balance out the long term amount, and not the initial year totals? In that case the money would be considered an enticement, not an amount to make the current year totals balance.

LG33
09-27-2008, 10:06 AM
To me Shawne is more athletic going to the rim, weaker in the post, has a much better looking long jumper. I know the Pacers are working PR aspects but to me it's just dumb to force Shawne out the door as though his PR stuff is a major hit given his limited minutes and the nature of what he's technically done up to now.

Tins has to go now, Shawne does not. You pull the trigger on Tins/McBob in order to just move Tins. Thomas doesn't need to play a single minute because you are already prepared to just tell Tins to stay home and get a paycheck.

100% agreed. Don't make a lopsided trade just to get rid of Tinsley. I'd rather keep him on the roster but out of the lockerroom than lose other players that still might have value.

CableKC
09-27-2008, 11:53 AM
I don't think you can do that. If I am correct, you can throw in money as an enticement to the other team, but not to balance out the contracts.

Oh wait, are you meaning to balance out the long term amount, and not the initial year totals? In that case the money would be considered an enticement, not an amount to make the current year totals balance.
Yes, the 2nd part. Marquis+Tinsley works for Brad....but the total guaranteed $$$ falls short for the Kings by about $4 mil. The $3 mil in cash is to help make up as much of a difference. Not that it matters...the Kings wouldn't do this anyways.

avoidingtheclowns
09-27-2008, 11:37 PM
How did he land Candace Parker?

with a forehead like that size he could land just about anything

ChicagoJ
09-29-2008, 11:53 AM
Wait. The guy who thinks we'll have a top 5 pick this summer wants to give it away?

I thought the discussion was for a 2010 pick. Maybe I'm confused.

Kenny Thomas, as an expiring, might actually allow us to be a player in free agency next summer.

Did I look at the wrong year. I think I might have.

Hicks
09-29-2008, 12:23 PM
It's most likely for 2009.

ChicagoJ
09-29-2008, 01:38 PM
I thought it was "future" unprotected first rounder. Technically, we did trade our first round pick this year (just ask Shade :devil: ), so I'm not sure we're allowed to trade next year's first rounder anyway.

JayRedd
09-29-2008, 01:46 PM
I thought it was "future" unprotected first rounder. Technically, we did trade our first round pick this year (just ask Shade :devil: ), so I'm not sure we're allowed to trade next year's first rounder anyway.

Yes you can. Once a draft is over, it has no barring on future picks.

The only stipulation is that you can't trade two future picks in consecutive drafts. So you can trade 2009 and 2011, but not 2009 and 2010.

count55
09-29-2008, 02:22 PM
I thought it was "future" unprotected first rounder. Technically, we did trade our first round pick this year (just ask Shade :devil: ), so I'm not sure we're allowed to trade next year's first rounder anyway.


Yes you can. Once a draft is over, it has no barring on future picks.

The only stipulation is that you can't trade two future picks in consecutive drafts. So you can trade 2009 and 2011, but not 2009 and 2010.

Also, you just have to have a 1st round pick, not necessarily your first round pick. If, for example, you have multiple 1st round picks guaranteed in next years 1st round, you would be free to trade one of those along with a 2010 pick, as long as you had one left.

Depending on how the rules viewed this year's transactions, we either had one first round pick (our own), or two (Portland's & Toronto's).

CableKC
09-29-2008, 02:41 PM
You guys have to help me here.....but there was some recent trade that occurred sometime over the last year ( I'm thinking of the one for Camby or Kidd ) where a future 1st rounder was included in the trade....but there was super-heavy-duty protection on that 1st round pick that pretty much made it very difficult to land that team a top 10 pick until the 2012 season.

Sorry, I don't recall what trade that was from....but it was some convoluted protection on the 1st rounder.

IF we were forced to package the 1st round pick with Tinsley...I wouldn't do it as an unprotected pick....it would have to have heavy duty protection on it.....I'm talking triple-layered condom protection here. At best...I would include the right to swap picks....assuming that it's protected up to the top 10.

count55
09-29-2008, 03:27 PM
You guys have to help me here.....but there was some recent trade that occurred sometime over the last year ( I'm thinking of the one for Camby or Kidd ) where a future 1st rounder was included in the trade....but there was super-heavy-duty protection on that 1st round pick that pretty much made it very difficult to land that team a top 10 pick until the 2012 season.

Sorry, I don't recall what trade that was from....but it was some convoluted protection on the 1st rounder.

IF we were forced to package the 1st round pick with Tinsley...I wouldn't do it as an unprotected pick....it would have to have heavy duty protection on it.....I'm talking triple-layered condom protection here. At best...I would include the right to swap picks....assuming that it's protected up to the top 10.

I can't speak specifically to your example, but I think the Marcus Williams trade was heavily protected. Also, Boston had held a pick from Minny that was heavily protected (probably from the Wally trade) that likely was going to be protected until around 2012. However, I think they gave that pick back as part of the KG trade.

Here's the Marcus Williams deal:


The Warriors reportedly have found another point guard to help out projected starter Monta Ellis. The New York Post is reporting that Golden State has acquired Marcus Williams from the New Jersey Nets for a future first-round pick. According to the Post, the pick the Warriors will send to the Nets is lottery protected for 2011, 2012 and 2013. If the Nets don't receive a pick by 2013, New Jersy would get second-round picks in both 2013 and 2015, the article says.

eldubious
10-01-2008, 10:13 PM
I agree with the theory that if it was Tinsley/McBob for Thomas the deal would be done already. I believe the Kings are adament on getting a first round pick to off-set Tinsley longer contract, that is a deal breaker for the Pacers. The Pacers would like to sweeten the deal in adding Williams to get Greene in return, in that case they might as well keep Williams. It's like you have two teams who are trying to get fries with a turd sandwich deal, but niether one of them wants the turd sandwich by itself.

CableKC
10-01-2008, 10:29 PM
I agree with the theory that if it was Tinsley/McBob for Thomas the deal would be done already. I believe the Kings are adament on getting a first round pick to off-set Tinsley longer contract, that is a deal breaker for the Pacers. The Pacers would like to sweeten the deal in adding Williams to get Greene in return, in that case they might as well keep Williams. It's like you have two teams who are trying to get fries with a turd sandwich deal, but niether one of them wants the turd sandwich by itself.

I can see the Kings being reluctant to part with Greene ( even for Shawne ). But frankly, I could give up Shawne without asking for Greene if it meant keeping the pick and moving Tinsley for Thomas.

CableKC
10-01-2008, 11:18 PM
Here's the Marcus Williams deal:


Originally Posted by Contra Costa Times
The Warriors reportedly have found another point guard to help out projected starter Monta Ellis. The New York Post is reporting that Golden State has acquired Marcus Williams from the New Jersey Nets for a future first-round pick. According to the Post, the pick the Warriors will send to the Nets is lottery protected for 2011, 2012 and 2013. If the Nets don't receive a pick by 2013, New Jersy would get second-round picks in both 2013 and 2015, the article says.
If we could get this type of Protection on the pick...I may consider it......at worst...I would consider the right to swap picks if that was an option in any "alleged" trade talks.

Pacerized
10-01-2008, 11:46 PM
Rather then giving up a 1st. round pick I'd be fine with just sitting Tinsley for a year and trying again when his contract is shorter. I hope Larry has learned a lesson from some of the picks we've traded away recently.

Anthem
10-02-2008, 10:27 AM
I can see the Kings being reluctant to part with Greene ( even for Shawne ). But frankly, I could give up Shawne without asking for Greene if it meant keeping the pick and moving Tinsley for Thomas.
Yeah, I'm with you on this one. Tinsley and Shawne for Thomas. Get it done.

MillerTime
10-02-2008, 10:30 AM
Yeah, I'm with you on this one. Tinsley and Shawne for Thomas. Get it done.

I'd rather do Tinsley + McRoberts rather than Williams. They wanted McRoberts too....send him with Tinsley...
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3220~1024~849&teams=23~23~11&te=&cash=