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Pacemaker
09-24-2008, 05:34 AM
http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/archives/2008/09/you_cant_questi.html

Because of things like this, and I know may be it's way to early to say this, I've already joined the Gotta Love Hibbert Club !

Speed
09-24-2008, 07:33 AM
This is really nice to read. I still think it takes him 3 years to really establish himself, but he should really get a chance to play big minutes 2 years from now, I'm guessing.

Doddage
09-24-2008, 07:34 AM
Love it.

Hicks
09-24-2008, 08:41 AM
I love it, myself.

RamBo_Lamar
09-24-2008, 10:06 AM
I especially like the part about teaching him to "move efficiently".

This is a quality I've always thought really makes big difference over the long
run. Look at guy like Tim Duncan for example; his efficiency of movement is
one thing that has always made him really stand out among great big men.

It is nice to see the Pacer's coaching staff working to instill qualities in Roy
early on to help him embark on what will hopefully be a long, productive, and
injury free NBA career.

MillerTime
09-24-2008, 11:16 AM
really nice to read for a change. Normally our your players had attitude problems (except Granger). What was nice to read was that, the only other Pacer with this kind of work ethic was Ron Artest. Besides Ron's mental instability, he was an amazing baller. Hopefully Hibbert could show signs of great hustle and defense as Ron did, without with "issues" that Ron had

Anthem
09-24-2008, 11:50 AM
Normally our young players had attitude problems (except Granger).
Man, that's not even close to true. It's amazing that we've spoiled on the Pacers so much that we can say they "normally" have attitude problems.

count55
09-24-2008, 12:11 PM
Man, that's not even close to true. It's amazing that we've spoiled on the Pacers so much that we can say they "normally" have attitude problems.

Seconded

d_c
09-24-2008, 12:20 PM
Seconded

Thirded, or whatever.

I think this stuff gets overstated a little on this board. The truth is, the vast majority of players in this league work hard. Yeah, a good number of them smoke weed, but normally this doesn't keep them from working hard on their games, showing up to practice and shoot arounds on time and listening to the coaching staff.

When guys show up to practice on time and run drills the way they're supposed to, this doesn't make the news. And this is what happens probably 98% of the time. What makes the news is when every now and then a player shows up late or misses practice, gets fined or has a spat with the coach. That makes the news.

Major Cold
09-24-2008, 12:21 PM
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/harrison_page_0405.html

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/archive/index.php/t-4573.html

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/archive/index.php/t-4576.html

Just comparing the last center we took. Sentiment is much different than I originally thought.

KennerLeaguer
09-24-2008, 12:35 PM
This is really nice to read. I still think it takes him 3 years to really establish himself, but he should really get a chance to play big minutes 2 years from now, I'm guessing.


Shouldn't take him that long if he is as good as I think he is based upon my years watching him. If it takes him that long then I definitely overestimated his capabilities as well as my ability to evaluate talent and ability. He's not some frosh or even sophmore coming out of college. He's a senior who went through wars in the Big East. He lacked aggression, not polish. His ability to score in the post and his ability to pass are underrated by most bball fans and "experts". One guy who responded to Well's blog wrote that if Hibbert works hard for for a few years he could eventually get time as a backup. Seriously? Well, that's a waste of the 17th pick in the draft if it would take three years just to get court time as a backup center. It amazes that in the spring of 2007 Hibbert was considered to be a high lottery pick and now all of a sudden people expect a 7'2 guy with great hands, skills, intelligence and a superior work ethic to not be able to get out on the court and contribute in some way.

Putnam
09-24-2008, 12:39 PM
Good finds, I-co. Looking down through the early stuff on Harrison, I find these two jewels by a couple of PD mainstays who deserve to remain anonymous:


Is anyone else getting the impression that (Harrison) is another Tinsley, a great talent that fell because people (wrongly) questioned his maturity and work ethic.


That's a good way to put it. Maybe he really is another Tinsley in that sense. I hope so.




Homer nods again.



.

Major Cold
09-24-2008, 12:43 PM
I read that too and chuckled.

Speed
09-24-2008, 02:19 PM
Shouldn't take him that long if he is as good as I think he is based upon my years watching him. If it takes him that long then I definitely overestimated his capabilities as well as my ability to evaluate talent and ability. He's not some frosh or even sophmore coming out of college. He's a senior who went through wars in the Big East. He lacked aggression, not polish. His ability to score in the post and his ability to pass are underrated by most bball fans and "experts". One guy who responded to Well's blog wrote that if Hibbert works hard for for a few years he could eventually get time as a backup. Seriously? Well, that's a waste of the 17th pick in the draft if it would take three years just to get court time as a backup center. It amazes that in the spring of 2007 Hibbert was considered to be a high lottery pick and now all of a sudden people expect a 7'2 guy with great hands, skills, intelligence and a superior work ethic to not be able to get out on the court and contribute in some way.


I hope you are right. It just usually takes big men so much longer to come into their own and although he had 4 years of college, he's young in age by those standards too. I do see the last part differently, I think at 17 if you get a guy who can be a solid 20 minutes a night back up center for a long career, you've done pretty well, imo. I hope Hibbert is more than that and I think Hibbert will be more than that.

If he's willing to maximize his abilities through hard work, which he has so far and there isn't any reason to think he won't continue to do so. However, I just do not want fans to write him off if he 1.) doesn't play that much being behind 3 veterens at the big spots. 2.) doesn't perform well, at least not consistently, that is just the nature of being a rookie.

Again, I hope he's an allstar, I just think we should manage expectations a bit.

Mark my words, next summer, if Hibbert play 16 mins a game and averaged 4 points and 3 rebounds, people will say his career is a bust and that just won't be true.

Suaveness
09-24-2008, 02:31 PM
Boring. Where's Ron and Stephen?

Putnam
09-24-2008, 03:06 PM
Sorry, but...


I think at 17 if you get a guy who can be a solid 20 minutes a night back up center for a long career, you've done pretty well, imo.


Roy Hibbert is a mature and refined 7' 2" basketball player coming off a successful four-year career at an excellent college. The fact that he was drafted 17 shouldn't affect our expectations for him at all.

We expect him to play effectively and earn what we pay him for all the years he's on the Pacers' roster. In his case, effectively means competing for minutes by mid-season and eventually becoming the Pacers starting center on merit and being solid there. He won't reach his potential for some time, and he'll commit some rookie mistakes along the way. But there is no reason that expectations for him are lower because of where he was drafted.

I expect him to be the best Pacers' center since Rick Smits (JO was a 4), because that is what the Pacers need him to be.

Can we just forget about draft pick numbers? They matter intensely on draft night. They don't matter at all any other time.



Mark my words, next summer, if Hibbert play 16 mins a game and averaged 4 points and 3 rebounds, people will say his career is a bust and that just won't be true.

This is well said. We ARE too quick to use hyperbolic words to describe players. If Hibbert plays 16 minutes a game and averages 4 and 3, we should say, "He averages 4 points and 3 rebounds in 16 minutes."

Los Angeles
09-24-2008, 05:09 PM
4 pts and 3 rebs over 16 minutes isn't all that bad for a backup center, especially if he's able to help with low-post defense.

I hope Hibbert is able to learn as much as he can from Jeff. Imagine Jeff's defensive foot and hand skills with Hibbert's size. That would be spectacular.

I'm just saying. :sorry:

McKeyFan
09-24-2008, 05:40 PM
Interesting that Bird mentioned Hibbert as someone he liked in the draft.

Aren't you supposed to be coy about such things, or does it mean that Hibbert wasn't really Larry's choice.

:whoknows:

P.S. Has Wells ever referred to his "Sunshine" editor before. That caught me by surprise.

Hicks
09-24-2008, 06:22 PM
Yes, he has. "Sunshine" is big on Hibbert and has been trying to convert Wells for a while on this.

McKeyFan
09-24-2008, 06:53 PM
I thought the Sunshine thing was something of a PD brand, not general.

Did he get it from us?

Young
09-24-2008, 08:28 PM
I never was a big fan of Roy. I didn't have much faith in him having a very good NBA career.

But if you look at who was avaliable with that pick, our needs, and the fact that Roy is a class act you just have to love having this guy on the team. I know I do.

Skaut_Ech
09-26-2008, 08:38 AM
4 pts and 3 rebs over 16 minutes isn't all that bad for a backup center, especially if he's able to help with low-post defense.

I hope Hibbert is able to learn as much as he can from Jeff. Imagine Jeff's defensive foot and hand skills with Hibbert's size. That would be spectacular.

I'm just saying. :sorry:

I agree with speed. I think Hibbert's going to be slooooww coming along. I give him about about three years till he becomes truly effective, also. I just don't know what to think of him. I like him. I like that he had 4 years of school at a good school. I don't know if it's been brought up before, but he makes me think of Petro with the Sonics/Thunder. I see both guys potentially being Mutombo lite. I just can't quite guage where their ceiling of talent is.

I'm pretty optimistic about him, though. All-star? Dunno? Bust down the road. I don't see it.

KennerLeaguer
09-26-2008, 10:13 PM
Hibbert's game is NOTHING like Mutombo's. The two men have different strengths and weaknesses. No offense but if I hear more stuff from reporters and fans about Hibbert playing the role of a defensive stopper I think I'll scream. His defense has indeed improved each year but his strength remains on the other side of the ball : shooting, scoring with either hand with his back to the basket, passing, being able to put the ball on the floor well for a man his size, footwork in the post. Those were his best traits IMO. And those were arguably Mutombo's weakest traits. Of course Mutombo was more athletic, a better rebounder, a better shotblocker and had superior stamina. Not. The. Same. Thing.

Listen very carefully to O'Brien's last radio interview in which he lets slip a bit of a rave the things Roy has shown he can do. I would bet the house he's referring more to his ability with the ball than he is about Roy's defensive prowess.

Since the Mourning days I have put together a few edited videoes/DVDs of Hoya players and their highlights. Last spring I put together one of Roy from his frosh season to his senior season on a few DVDs. You'll be amazed at all the moves he demonstrated and how he can just suddenly look so fluid and quick when getting the ball in the post. If I knew how to put things up on YouTube I suppose I would have spent the summer putting up those moments to give some of the folks an example of what he can do (none of the junk on YouTube of him does him justice). Maybe I should send the DVDs to folks who would know what to do with them.

Hicks
09-26-2008, 10:30 PM
KennerLeaguer, if you would like, we can talk via PM about getting them on YouTube.

ABADays
09-28-2008, 07:46 PM
When guys show up to practice on time and run drills the way they're supposed to, this doesn't make the news.

Well, it makes the news now which kind of tells you what the past few years have been like.

I've never been real keen on guys out of Georgetown but I think the Pacers made the right choice here and I'm thrilled with such a high character guy with a work ethic.

BlueNGold
09-28-2008, 08:45 PM
I've spent some time surfing for Hibbert videos this evening. Good times, baby.

What is clear to me is that he has talent in addition to size. Far better hands and fundamentals than David Harrison. I know, that's not saying much. I also know it's highlights, but I see a guy that will be able to help us right now. I see a guy who will be more effective on the interior than any other player on this roster...right now, not two years from now.

I also saw something surprising. He has a good first step with some quickness...and he can handle the rock. He is not a sloth like I originally thought...at least on offense.

I really believe he will be a very, very solid pro and probably our starting center for years to come.

Anthem
09-28-2008, 11:27 PM
Somebody walk me through this... it's not like Hibbert dropped to 17. That was as high as anybody expected. But right now he sounds like the second coming of Zo.

Are we hyping him too much? I'm worried that he'll come out and struggle, and then people will sour on him. A bunch of teams thought, at the very least, that he wouldn't be ready any time soon.

d_c
09-29-2008, 12:48 AM
Somebody walk me through this... it's not like Hibbert dropped to 17. That was as high as anybody expected. But right now he sounds like the second coming of Zo.

Are we hyping him too much? I'm worried that he'll come out and struggle, and then people will sour on him. A bunch of teams thought, at the very least, that he wouldn't be ready any time soon.

Eh...whatever. Everyone has a youtube clip and every rookie get his share of pre-season hype articles. Hibbert's a good kid. I read plenty of Hibbert articles about that well before the start of LAST college season that praised his work ethic. He works hard. That's always been known.

And you're correct: it's not as if he "fell" to 17. That's approximately where people had him pegged to begin with. People knew about his strengths and weaknesses as they do now. He'll be a useful enough player in this league.

Anthem
09-29-2008, 01:38 AM
He'll be a useful enough player in this league.
Oh, absolutely. And I'm not disputing the "good kid" label or the "hard worker" label.

I'm just not sure that we should expect much this year.

Hicks
09-29-2008, 08:47 AM
Not that it promises a thing, but I think part of the reason (the other part being his knee) Danny Granger was available to take at #17 was because people knew his strengths and weaknesses already. I'm just fine with picking up the known quantity when that quantity is solid and worthy of taking.

Anthem
09-29-2008, 09:12 AM
Not that it promises a thing, but I think part of the reason (the other part being his knee) Danny Granger was available to take at #17 was because people knew his strengths and weaknesses already. I'm just fine with picking up the known quantity when that quantity is solid and worthy of taking.
Danny was a fluke fall, nobody in the world expected him to be there at #17. People were saying top-5; Rimfire was pissed when NY passed on him at #8. Nothing like that happened with Hibby.

I'm not attacking the dude--I like him too--but every player at #17 is not Danny Granger.

Hicks
09-29-2008, 09:33 AM
Nobody but 16 GMs.....

Hicks
09-29-2008, 09:38 AM
Look, after every draft, this debate happens.

It's not just, "Oh, people think he fell, so he's good," or, "Oh, he wasn't expected to go any higher than that, so he's not that great."

No. It's about what you see in that player regardless of position; that's the primary thing. If I didn't like what I see in Hibbert, I wouldn't think twice about him being there, and I would probably wonder why we even picked him.

But when I see someone with as many things going for him as Hibbert, and when I see a guy who is older, more experienced (and exposed), and has already developed in several areas, I see a great pick that was passed on because people fall in love with the dreaded "P word:" Potential.

McKeyFan
09-29-2008, 12:29 PM
I just glanced at the 2005 draft again. Looks like a strong argument could be made for Granger being the third best pick behind Paul and Deron Williams.

BlueNGold
09-29-2008, 07:16 PM
I don't mean to overhype him. I am just so happy to have a big man with intelligence on the Pacers.

I think the C position might be the second most important position on the team. As much as I love Jeff Foster, he's not the center I have ever wanted on this team. He's a great energy guy as a 6th man, but he's not who I want playing 30 minutes a game. No one else who has worn a Pacer uniform since Brad Miller has been a legit starting C. Hibbert may not be either, but I am hopeful...

Putnam
09-29-2008, 07:39 PM
Somebody walk me through this... it's not like Hibbert dropped to 17. That was as high as anybody expected. But right now he sounds like the second coming of Zo.


Remember this scene from Men in Black:



Jay (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000226/): Before y'all go beaming me up there's one thing you gotta remember: You chose me... so you recognized the skills, so I don't want nobody calling me son or kid or sport or nothing like that, cool?
Kay (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000169/): Cool, whatever you say, slick, but I need to tell you something about all your skills. As of right now, they mean precisely... dick.

Well, it is the same with Hibbert. As of right now (today, the first day of camp), where he was drafted means precisely ...dick.

rexnom
09-29-2008, 09:15 PM
Putty with the pop culture reference. Nice.

LoneGranger33
09-29-2008, 11:01 PM
And only a decade behind the times. You're getting there buddy!

Also, please count again.

kester99
09-29-2008, 11:06 PM
Coulda been a Neil Diamond reference. Count your blessings.

JayRedd
09-29-2008, 11:19 PM
I was expecting City Lights.