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View Full Version : Jacksonville at Indianapolis Game thread 9/21/08



Lord Helmet
09-21-2008, 12:34 PM
:jaguars: (0-2) After last week's loss to Buffalo the Jaguars are in need of a win.

:colts: (1-1) After a come from behind victory against the Vikings last week, the Colts hope their offense can continue last week's heroics.

Time: 4:15 PM ET

Location: Lucas Oil Stadium, Indianapolis, IN

Television: :cbssports:

Shade
09-21-2008, 12:56 PM
Stupid 4:15 game. I have to work at 4:00. :kickcan:

Bball
09-21-2008, 01:02 PM
I need Maurice Jones Drew to tear up the field and run wild while Anthony Gonzalez is the counter to keep the Colts in the lead.

My FFL opponent has Reggie Wayne so I need him covered well... but I have Gonzalez so that is my saving grace to neutralize the points I need from MJD.

Infinite MAN_force
09-21-2008, 03:44 PM
I need Maurice Jones Drew to tear up the field and run wild while Anthony Gonzalez is the counter to keep the Colts in the lead.

My FFL opponent has Reggie Wayne so I need him covered well... but I have Gonzalez so that is my saving grace to neutralize the points I need from MJD.


This is a major reason I don't play fantasy football. Having to think about things like that would ruin my experience of watching the game. I just want the colts to beat their opponent into submission.

MrSparko
09-21-2008, 04:24 PM
I agree with crappy Batman ^_^

Infinite MAN_force
09-21-2008, 04:31 PM
Keaton is Batman.

On another note, is anyone watching this game? Total domination by the colts so far. I like it.


ps: Crappy batman looks something more like this...

http://www.fileitunder.com/uploaded_images/batman_nipples-772252.jpg

Bball
09-21-2008, 04:44 PM
And from a FFL point of view, with Clark back and Harrison's legacy status, Gonzalez might not get the turf time and looks that I need.

-Bball

Bball
09-21-2008, 04:45 PM
And in other news... I'm so tired of hearing about the Colts' "small but fast" defense. If you can't stop the run I don't care how fast you are.

-Bball

Infinite MAN_force
09-21-2008, 05:15 PM
interception... crap!

kester99
09-21-2008, 07:04 PM
the cardiac colts?

idioteque
09-21-2008, 07:10 PM
The Colts are 1-2 and really should be 0-3.

The Colts need to start playing complete football games and not trying to come back and win the thing at the end of the game.

I hope that when the dust settles in a few years and the Colts rebuild after Manning retires, we become more of a smash-mouth team and less of a team that relies on gimmicky skill players. I would love to see the Colts rebuilt someday in a Pittsburgh Steelers-type mode.

It's a gross feeling right now, but it's only Week 3.

SycamoreKen
09-21-2008, 07:10 PM
You guys got messed over on that pass interference call. It looked like the Jags player was picking the colts guy. He got int he defenders way as he was going to the flat to cover the guy out there. If that is pass interfierence, why not have a reciever run in front of a guy evey play?

Lord Helmet
09-21-2008, 07:14 PM
You guys got messed over on that pass interference call. It lokked like the Jags player was picking the colts guy. He got int he defenders way as he was going to the flat to cover the guy out there. If that is pass interfierence, why not have a reciever run in front of a guy evey play?
That's a lame way for stuff to go, but I'll go ahead and say the defense lost this game.

Granted it's a team game, but I'm going to look at who screwed up the most and you'd have to just say that run defense failed today.

Jaguars won the Super Bowl though today, so be happy for them, Scobee wanted to get that ball he kicked didn't he? Gonna be a collector's item. :laugh:

But kudos to the Jags, they played better than we did today and got themselves a much needed win.

As I've said, I HOPE we get the Wild Card.

Bball
09-21-2008, 07:16 PM
The "Prevent Defense" the whole game Colts...

In the NFL you have to stop the run. You don't have to be perfect at it, but you can't be this porous. And a lot of it is by design... it's expected that the Colts won't be good against the run BUT they have this misguided idea that the offense will play not only great, but perfect. But 's--t' happens and no offense is perfect. The run defense is so weak that all a team needs to do is stick to a ball control gameplan no matter the score. Don't let a 10 point deficit scare you out of your gameplan. Play good defense and wait on your defense to make a play or wait on the Colts to stop themselves.

I cannot wait until this misguided plan is shelved and the Colts decide to make stopping the run more of an emphasis.

Merz
09-21-2008, 07:22 PM
That pass interferance was ridiculous (as was the interception return by mathis non-call) but thats about what I'd expect from Walt Coleman's crew.

Oh yeah...the run D didn't help too much either.

Bball
09-21-2008, 07:25 PM
The Colts are 1-2 and really should be 0-3.

The Colts need to start playing complete football games and not trying to come back and win the thing at the end of the game.

I hope that when the dust settles in a few years and the Colts rebuild after Manning retires, we become more of a smash-mouth team and less of a team that relies on gimmicky skill players. I would love to see the Colts rebuilt someday in a Pittsburgh Steelers-type mode.

It's a gross feeling right now, but it's only Week 3.

I'm hoping we don't have to wait on Manning to retire to see the team change the defense. Just as in the playoffs of our SB year, it was great watching Manning manage the game while the defense could stop the run. But asking the O to win while the defense plays like this (by design I might add) is just wasting Manning's last years. The defense changed that year because it HAD to change. Dungy rode the horse as long as he could before waking up and figuring out we were about to be one and done in the PO's if we didn't make some fundamental changes. ...And we won a SB... and then we go back to the same ol' defensive plan and style of playersw that has been figured out leaguewide. People know how to beat the Colts. All they have to do is execute a ball control offense and not panic.

We've already seen what happens to a team when ownership is overly loyal to coaches and/or management. Dungy should've been allowed to retire. The last thing this team needs is a part-time lame-duck head coach who has a history of being extremely slow to react to adversity himself.

SycamoreKen
09-21-2008, 07:25 PM
Yes the run d stunk, not to mention the decision to throw passes on 1st and 2nd down from the 2 yard line. Why not run it from there at least once to chew up some clock?

DisplacedKnick
09-21-2008, 07:39 PM
I cannot wait until this misguided plan is shelved and the Colts decide to make stopping the run more of an emphasis.

They need to do that by making rushing the passer less of an emphasis - or at least find a different way to go about it.

Jacksonville went back to running on passing downs by letting the DE's go wide while the LB's dropped back in coverage and basically having 5 guys to block 2 DT's. Until the DE's quit selling out on 2nd and 3rd and long, this will keep happening.

And yes, I expected a 1st down run to get rid of some clock.

Slick Pinkham
09-21-2008, 08:27 PM
What was the weather like in Indianapolis today? Wasn't it near perfect?

Why would the roof on a retractable roof stadium be closed today? Facilitating crowd noise?

What does the weather have to be like to have it open?

The huge irony is that any wind at all might greatly hurt a 51-yard field goal.

obnoxiousmodesty
09-21-2008, 09:09 PM
There were scattered thunderstorms around central Indiana. They've said they won't open the roof if there is any chance of weather since they didn't put a drainage system into the stadium.

As for the Colts, this was a total team loss. The offense didn't help the defense by going for two 3 and outs in the 3rd quarter, keeping a tired D on the field. Meanwhile, the defense was as porous as could be all game long. Good job Hunter Smith, Justin Snow, and Adam Vinatieri. Everyone else needs to get to work.

Suaveness
09-21-2008, 09:12 PM
Peyton's INTs were not very helpful either. Blame has to go around.

brichard
09-21-2008, 09:12 PM
I went to the game... the officiating was horrible. I tend to look at the game different than others. I feel like the offense lost this game, and rarely do I feel otherwise. Our money is tied up on the offensive side of the ball, so they need to play above average.

The defense created a turnover for the offense, which gave them great field position. But the offense threw 2 interceptions which wasn't great for our defense. The defense also held Jacksonville to field goals most of the day when they got in the red zone, and even got a turnover on downs in the first half.

Our run defense is just not good, and that is a valid criticism. And the other thing that gives me a twitch in my neck is our absolute non-existing pass rush. It is absolutely embarrasing to watch how comfortable a quarterback can get in the pocket. They could order a pizza before somebody on our defensive line is remotely near them.

On a good note, I think Manning was using all of his receivers well today. It was nice to see he and Marvin get back in sync a bit. I haven't heard what is wrong with Dallas, but that dude sure has durability issues.

Suaveness
09-21-2008, 10:03 PM
I went to the game... the officiating was horrible. I tend to look at the game different than others. I feel like the offense lost this game, and rarely do I feel otherwise. Our money is tied up on the offensive side of the ball, so they need to play above average.

The defense created a turnover for the offense, which gave them great field position. But the offense threw 2 interceptions which wasn't great for our defense. The defense also held Jacksonville to field goals most of the day when they got in the red zone, and even got a turnover on downs in the first half.

Our run defense is just not good, and that is a valid criticism. And the other thing that gives me a twitch in my neck is our absolute non-existing pass rush. It is absolutely embarrasing to watch how comfortable a quarterback can get in the pocket. They could order a pizza before somebody on our defensive line is remotely near them.

On a good note, I think Manning was using all of his receivers well today. It was nice to see he and Marvin get back in sync a bit. I haven't heard what is wrong with Dallas, but that dude sure has durability issues.

I feel the same way.

And going to games can be real depressing. Sigh.

Slick Pinkham
09-21-2008, 10:34 PM
There were scattered thunderstorms around central Indiana. They've said they won't open the roof if there is any chance of weather since they didn't put a drainage system into the stadium.
I thought that the roof could be closed in something like 3 minutes?

Simple answer: closed = maximum crowd noise.

Bball
09-21-2008, 10:40 PM
I disagree... to a point... that the offense is to blame. The way the team is put together and the system that is being used simply puts too much emphasis on the offense. It's next to an impossible situation.

The system is flawed. I'd blame management except this is what Dungy wants.

You simply can't put this much pressure on your offense to perform at the level they are expected to perform at. It's not money either... I think that is a cop out argument for a bad system.

We're figured out and have been for some time. To beat the Colts all you have to do is run, run, run. Run on passing downs... run on short yardage... Run, Forest, Run. Play ball control and put all kinds of pressure on the Colt offense to perform with every possession being so important. If the Colts play a perfect offensive game then they probably win. But that's nearly impossible. As long as you don't try and get into a track meet with the Colts they'll likely self destruct at least one series with a false start, or a dropped ball, or wrong route. And that's your opening. Or your own defense can make a play and intercept the ball or strip it.

And if you get a couple of scores up on the Colts and continue to chew clock when you have the ball it's pretty likely Manning will finally get impatient and throw a "hero ball" (deep throw into coverage) and the odds are probably just as good or better that it'll waste a down or be picked as it is completed.

I totally agree with Displaced Knick's comments.

I don't know where he stands on Dungy but IMHO it's time for Dungy to go. Honestly, I believe it would've been in everyone's best interest for Dungy to have left after the SB win. I realize the win bought him another season out of loyalty alone but his inability to prepare this team for the playoffs, to make ingame and inseason adjustments, and to continue with this flawed system that has been completely figured out is the absolute definition of 'crazy'.

And IMHO we DID finally make some fundamental changes in the defensive system in the run to the SB and STILL we've reverted back to the old system.

Nothing is more demoralizing to a fanbase than to see another team run it at you successfully play after play. And that is followed closely by seeing your team unable to run itself... especially when needed. The long bombs and precision routes are nice but they are no substitute for winning in the trenches if you want to secure the fanbase.

As far as the offense losing the game today... I missed the second INT that Manning through so I don't know what happened there. The first INT left me curious if Marvin just didn't react to the ball as expected or if the defender just made a good play (or pulled Marvin to the ground). The replay didn't really show the full play developing. I also wondered about the one early pass to Marvin that just went over his fingertips missing a TD. In years past I would expect Marvin to lay out for that ball and make more of an effort for it.

I'm not convinced Marvin is exactly 'back' yet.

-Bball

Shade
09-21-2008, 10:43 PM
Lucas Oil Stadium is jinxed! JINXED, I TELLS YA!!!!!

Well, at least the Dolphins butt-spanked the Patsies. Gotta find a silver lining somewhere. :shrug:

SoupIsGood
09-21-2008, 10:57 PM
I thought that the roof could be closed in something like 3 minutes?

Simple answer: closed = maximum crowd noise.
:rolleyes:

Bball
09-21-2008, 11:10 PM
I thought that the roof could be closed in something like 3 minutes?

Simple answer: closed = maximum crowd noise.

That's crazy... the answer is:
Once a Charmin soft dome team... always a Charmin soft dome team.

brichard
09-21-2008, 11:17 PM
bball... as always you make good points, even if I don't agree with all of them. I think Dungy is a good coach, but if the team is assembled poorly, at least part of that blame has to go to Polian. It's funny... pretty much everybody uses the Tampa 2 now, from what I understand, so in some ways Dungy has been a bit of a visionary.

He also has shown the ability to turn around a franchise (Tampa Bay,) and actually win the Superbowl. Remember that before Dungy we had Jim "Can't win a playoff game" Mora. So although I agree that some of the things we do on defense disturbs me, you have to judge the sum of what the man has brought to Indy. We had Manning before Dungy, but we didn't have a Superbowl ring. And as I saw today on a trivia challenge, Dungy is the most winning coach in Colt history... impressive based on the number of years he has been here.

We have the AFC Defensive player of the year, so there is some talent on that side of the ball. Freeney is also a Pro Bowler in years past, and I'm not sure how many pro bowlers you get on average per team. We have had some unfortunate injuries up front as well. Was it Montae Ragor (Sp?) and the big guy from Philly... Cory? I'm assuming Booger McFarland is now gone. And we have just been hit pretty hard with injuries on both sides of the ball the last couple of years.

I probably am not fair on the offensive side of the ball, but crap... there is just so much freaking talent there. Manning is an HOF'er and so is Harrison. We've spent quite a few high draft picks on guys like Clark, Gonzales, and Addai. It is just a machine. And my expectations are extremely high. I felt like we could have managed the clock a little better on O today as well... just my opinion.

We may not be able to outscore everybody but Cripes... Jacksonville?

MrSparko
09-21-2008, 11:49 PM
Yea a dome team like the Colts will never win the superbowl. Case closed.

Bball
09-22-2008, 12:03 AM
Yea a dome team like the Colts will never win the superbowl. Case closed.


I was being part sarcastic and part serious. I believe dome teams can win a SB (obviously).

OTOH ...I do believe the retractable roof in the Luke was a waste of dollars because it will hardly ever be open. In fact, after a couple of years I predict it will NEVER be open. They'll blame it leaks, expense to open/close it, unpredicatable Indiana weather... etc..

They didn't even allow for drainage if it would happen to rain while it's open?

-Bball

MrSparko
09-22-2008, 12:07 AM
My apologies for not seeing the sarcasm :).


Though I struggle to tell which front office you have less faith in sometimes. ;)

Bball
09-22-2008, 12:48 AM
My apologies for not seeing the sarcasm :).


Though I struggle to tell which front office you have less faith in sometimes. ;)

Well, I believe the Colts have their heart in the right place. I believe Irsay wants to bring championships to Indy. While I believe the Colts want to sell tickets, I think Irsay has a longer term view and wants to develop the fanbase and feels putting a championship caliber team on the field is a major piece of the puzzle to do that.... not just a competitive team.. a SB favorite.

I don't think Walsh ever saw a championship as all that important to his goal of just putting a competitive team on the court and then just trying to spin and sell it as we're just lucky to have an NBA team, let alone a competitive one. I have no idea where the Simons fell in that equation but considering they didn't come about as being owners because they had a desire to be at the top of the basketball world, and considering Walsh was allowed to long stay past any window of effectiveness, I think it's probably pretty clear and the lowered bar finally bit them all in the rear.

BUT... I think Irsay is in danger of being overly loyal to some people who have also overstayed their welcome. I doubt Irsay and Polian are the happy family we'd like to believe. And considering Dungy came here with questionable playoff credentials I think the continuing problems in playing and sustaining "playoff football" aren't exactly Polian's fault. And is there a worse football coach at making adjustments?

I believe Dungy peaked with that SB. I won't call it all luck but a lot of stars had to align. Personally, that egg the Colts laid against Pittsburgh a year earlier should've been his swan song.

But let's face it.... Dungy is a good guy... and his regular season record (especially to start seasons) has been good... exceptional. But as the games get bigger, the Colts get smaller. That IMHO is a direct reflection on Dungy's shortcomings. And this season, as a lame duck, part-time coach with a shaky exposed system and a team in need of extra coaching/motivation, we're seeing why Irsay should've been thanking God Dungy wanted to retire when he did and go out coming off a SB win and a decent followup season. But Irsay talked him out of it so instead we're going to waste this season while Dungy is going to go out tarnished and with the taste of a couple more disappointing seasons, not the recent SB as his crowning achievement.

The Colts have had the talent to have a much better PO record than they've written in the history books. And let's not fool ourselves into blaming the Pats. In the past 3 years the Pats haven't beaten us in the PO's. The Steelers and Chargers have.... at home!

The Simons were overly loyal to Walsh and it has cost the team a significant portion of the fanbase and put the team eerily close to planting a couple For Sale signs on Pennyslvania and Delaware St.

I hope Irsay isn't so blindly loyal to Dungy that he makes the same mistake and wastes these opportunities (the waning Manning years). Dungy, and his system need an overhaul and the team needs some new direction. Heaven forbid Irsay tries to talk him into another season after this one.

aero
09-22-2008, 01:49 AM
MISSING: Colts D

last seen driving south on I65 ?

clownskull
09-23-2008, 10:33 AM
even though i didn't see the whole game, i did see enough. without bob sanders, this defense is positively terrible. do the colts have a sack this year? i haven't even seen them successfully put pressure on a qb this year let alone get a sack. i seriously fear that every team we play this season will have their best running performance of the season this year- by a large margin.
jags had a 12 minute drive? that is absolutely unacceptable. yeh the defense did hold them to a field goal but to be unable to get the other team out of there in 12 freakin minutes is very bad news.
this is looking like another season of needing the offense to run perfectly every time in order to win. that isn't going to work since we only have human beings running the offense and people get hurt and make mistakes. too much needed from one side in order for victory.
problem is- i don't see how the defense can get significantly better without bob in the lineup.

Infinite MAN_force
09-25-2008, 12:37 AM
People are too quick to jump off the bridge after a few losses.

When the colts were having these problems before, two major changes happened that seemed to fix them... we made a big improvement at the strongside linebacker spot, and Bob Sanders came back from injury.

Hagler has been out all year so far, and Sanders is out. When these two return, it should hopefully have a similar impact as when Morris and Sanders saved the defense in 06.

The only difference is the talent level on the interior defensive line. We lost booger, johnson, and pitcock. This is a big problem. You can blame Dungy and the scheme all you want, but its a simple fact, we are down a LOT of talent (and size)on that defensive line. This is the #1 issue that concerns me.

I just pray Booger has something left in the tank and they can bring him back, cause we need him. We need something on the inside of that line.

on another note... if the offense wasn't still trying to knock the rust off due to peytons absence, despite the defensive problems, we would probably be 3-0 right now. I have seen so many long bomb passes that were just a bit off or dropped that would have made a huge difference in some of these games. I don't really see how this is all dungy's fault or a problem with his system, there are some clear issues that stand right out to me.