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View Full Version : WTF! Orlando wants Jamaal Tinsley 2!



JOneal7
06-17-2004, 12:23 AM
UHG! NO DEAL
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-sptmagic17061704jun17,1,546284.story?coll=orl-magic

""According to one source, the Magic have asked the Pacers for as many as four players -- Ron Artest, Al Harrington, Jamaal Tinsley and Jonathan Bender -- in exchange for McGrady. To make it fit under salary-cap rules, the Magic would have to send at least one other player, likely Juwan Howard."
DEAR GOD NO!
HOWARD SUCKS!

kerosene
06-17-2004, 12:25 AM
Wow, that's ugly.

Suaveness
06-17-2004, 12:25 AM
That would never happen. Walsh isn't that stupid.

Young
06-17-2004, 12:26 AM
Hell no will we trade Tinsley without having a backbone.

Orlando is retarded.

Snickers
06-17-2004, 12:29 AM
I think they're taking "everyone but JO is available" too seriously. :laugh:

That's just silly.

Roaming Gnome
06-17-2004, 12:29 AM
That is a deal buster...or just negotiations :fingerscrossed:

Kegboy
06-17-2004, 12:29 AM
<click>

That's the sound of Donnie hanging up.

If they call back, I wouldn't be surprised if Larry picked up the phone and told them to go F themselves.

Man, I'm so wrapped up in this I want to punch whoever wrote that. :mad:

ROCislandWarrior
06-17-2004, 12:30 AM
NO WAY!

Tins ain't going anywhere. Tmac isn't worth an allstar, sixth-man, athletic freak and solid point guard.

"One source" must be high or something

TheSauceMaster
06-17-2004, 12:31 AM
Sorry if that's what it takes to get Tmac ..I'll pass ...drive through please

Hicks
06-17-2004, 12:32 AM
They want the DPOY, runner up 6th man, and our starting point guard? Ha. Ha ha. :sarcasm:

Cactus Jax
06-17-2004, 12:33 AM
Just let Orlando calm down. They're just probably really starting to field offers for T-Mac and will quickly find out an offer of Harrington and Artest will be about as good as they find.

The only good thing for now out of this is they don't seem to want Freddie. It would be interesting if it were Harrington, Bender and Tinsley or something. I'd be on the edge of that type of deal. Remember Jamaal is a free agent after this season, and if the Pacers are signing T-Mac long term, they might not have enough to keep Tinsley.

Do that then sign a PG like Arroyo or somebody for the MLE.

Here's a question; would you include Tinsley in order to keep Artest?

JOneal7
06-17-2004, 12:33 AM
I hope so. Cause that's bs! And kills are talks! They also mention Tmac for francis,mobley, and cato. I wouldnt do that over artest/al because francis and mobley are both ball hogs! And francis isn't the kinda guy they need. He plays very lil D.
I read that and i'm like ok no..lol

kerosene
06-17-2004, 12:33 AM
That's crazy. That leaves the Pacers with either no SFs (if McGrady plays SG) or a worse backcourt (if he plays SF).

Roaming Gnome
06-17-2004, 12:34 AM
It looks like they better start dealing with Houston if they are serious. The more I hear, the more I just start thinking....Nah!

Kegboy
06-17-2004, 12:35 AM
I was worried about this, that Tinsley's name would eventually come up. Nope, that's a deal breaker for me. I'd have to change my sig and avatar. As my sister says, "It's all about ME!" :D

Seriously, no. Never. Period. This is why Donnie talked to Kravitz and MPOS. His point was Two for one. Not FOUR! :blush:

Hicks
06-17-2004, 12:37 AM
Please tell me none of you are taking this article as such gospal as to assume that's how it will happen if it does, because that's :bs:

Kstat
06-17-2004, 12:37 AM
I've been saying all along the Magic would ask for TInsley somewhere down the road. With Orlando's obsession with finding a PG, this shouldnt come as a surprise.

Snickers
06-17-2004, 12:40 AM
Phoenix offering Marion, Johnson and Voskuhl.

Houston offering Mobley, Francis, and Cato.

Is 2 very good Gs and an ok C the way to go here?

I wouldn't trade Tinsley unless we got a better PG in return.

Shade
06-17-2004, 12:40 AM
:magic: = :rotflmao: :crazy:

JOneal7
06-17-2004, 12:41 AM
it's weisbrod people. The hockey GM is an idiot. He thinks it's like hockey where he can get 5 players for like a pick and 1 guy. LOL
Gosh I HATE JOHN WEISBROD...Not only does he screw up the magic but trys screwing indiana by taking all are talent!
Question. .. would any of you send those 4..for a guy like Kobe? What about MJ in his prime? jw cause i don't know if i would either...

Snickers
06-17-2004, 12:41 AM
But obviously, this is just their "starting price." Anybody who's played fantasy basketball knows the first offer is rarely the one that goes through.

Unless the other GM is really dumb. And ours isn't. :)

zxc
06-17-2004, 12:43 AM
Well if they want Tinsley enough would be fine with me to include him long as we get to keep Al or Ron. But both plus tinsley and bender? Eh, think that guy is just making stuff up.

Cactus Jax
06-17-2004, 12:43 AM
I've been saying all along the Magic would ask for TInsley somewhere down the road. With Orlando's obsession with finding a PG, this shouldnt come as a surprise.

I agree with this and if Orlando wants Tinsley so bad, maybe the Pacers can get a Harrington, Tinsley and Freddie for T-Mac or something. I like Tinsley about as much as anyone but if he can drive Orlando's aking price down a lot then again you have to do the deal.

There are pleanty of free agent PG's out there, Detroit got Billups with the MLE, and I think the Pacers could get a good PG that way as well.

ROCislandWarrior
06-17-2004, 12:44 AM
I've been saying all along the Magic would ask for TInsley somewhere down the road. With Orlando's obsession with finding a PG, this shouldnt come as a surprise.

I agree with this and if Orlando wants Tinsley so bad, maybe the Pacers can get a Harrington, Tinsley and Freddie for T-Mac or something. I like Tinsley about as much as anyone but if he can drive Orlando's aking price down a lot then again you have to do the deal.

There are pleanty of free agent PG's out there, Detroit got Billups with the MLE, and I think the Pacers could get a good PG that way as well.

Who are the FA PG's this year?

Kegboy
06-17-2004, 12:49 AM
Please tell me none of you are taking this article as such gospal as to assume that's how it will happen if it does, because that's :bs:

No, but it points to the fact that Orlando asking price is way to high. If this is their opening offer, it tells me they expect something like Ron + Al/JB + Freddie (I expect they think we'll counter with Freddie when Jamaal's name comes up, along with agreeing to either Al or Johnny.)

Here's my line of thinking.

TMac = Ron + (Pollard or Croshere) + draft picks
TMac = Al + JB + Freddie

TMac < Ron + (Al or JB or Freddie or Tinsley)

Kegboy
06-17-2004, 12:51 AM
Who are the FA PG's this year?

Um, Travis Best.

:zip:

Young
06-17-2004, 12:53 AM
I've been saying all along the Magic would ask for TInsley somewhere down the road. With Orlando's obsession with finding a PG, this shouldnt come as a surprise.

There are pleanty of free agent PG's out there, Detroit got Billups with the MLE, and I think the Pacers could get a good PG that way as well.

Thats the only way Tinsley is in the deal too, if we have a deal lined up for a point guard via free agency.

If that would happen, possiable suitors:

- Rafer Alston [Would be my top choice.]
- Carlos Arroyo
- Raul Lopez
- Brent Barry
- Troy Hudson
- Jamal Crawford

Or even, hope not, if Indiana thought he could, Fred Jones play the point.

He could be a combo guard, like Billups in Detroit. Fred has a very unselfish style, I wish he would be more aggressive at times. That would be a desprate situation for Indiana though, having Fred play the point full time.

JOneal7
06-17-2004, 01:01 AM
if we trade tinsley and get alston...omg
rafer alston
Tracy Mcgrady
Jermaine O'neal

on the same team!? SCARY!

MagicRat
06-17-2004, 01:01 AM
If that's their best offer I'm guessing Donnie and Larry will tell Commissioner Gordon to stop wasting electricity on the mac signal they've been shining over the fieldhouse.....

http://home.comcast.net/~magic_rat/mac-signal2.jpg

Hicks
06-17-2004, 01:03 AM
:laugh:

TheSauceMaster
06-17-2004, 01:12 AM
Good Idea MagicRat :ninja:

Miller_time04
06-17-2004, 01:20 AM
Thats quite possibly the worst trade I have ever seen..

ROCislandWarrior
06-17-2004, 01:22 AM
:rotflmao:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Way to go Magic

JOneal7
06-17-2004, 01:34 AM
the mac signal! I like it! LOL....
T-Mac 2 INDIANA! :)!
Come onnnnnnnnnn! Trick that hockey fool! it's not hard...he's a moron...offer him pollard with al and bender and watch him bite!

TheSauceMaster
06-17-2004, 03:19 AM
Sorry I would take Troy Hudson or Carlos Arroyo , before I would take Alston.

Kstat
06-17-2004, 03:25 AM
Sorry I would take Troy Hudson or Carlos Arroyo , before I would take Alston.

Depends what you need:

as pure PGs go, Carlos Arroyo is one of the very BEST in the NBA. However, he's a wimp defensively.

If its scoring you need, Hudson is your man.

If its a creator, Alston is the best choice. He's also a better defender than hudsin or arroyo.

able
06-17-2004, 05:41 AM
The fact that DW said that only JO is "safe" doesn't mean he will trade Tins :D
LB is in love with Tins, he was singlehandedly (ok I withdraw that, he had help from Brown) responsible for re-inserting Tins, Tins is the strating PG on a team that won 61 games and went to the ECF nad failed in the ECF because he was hurt.
There is no way on earth that they would "include" him in a trade to "make up the numbers".

Tins + AL + Ron would get you Kidd, so forget TMac.

Tins will be one of the great PG's in this league, as people said a few years ago his followed path is eerily simular to KIdd's.

He might never be the scoring PG, but his pasing is of a very very high standard, his D was more then decent this year and the chemistry with the team is fabulous, he would command so much that the Magic would almost have to accept a Tins + Cro + Pollard to get h im. forget the rest.

And PacerfaninAZ, if it so easy to find a good PG, please explain to me why so many teams are looking for one :)
In reality they are a sought after commodity.

Will Galen
06-17-2004, 06:59 AM
Quote; "According to one source, the Magic have asked the Pacers for as many as four players." The only source that could be would have to be the team itself.

Walsh mentioned giving two players for TMac, so Orlando is countering with four. It's just a ploy to drive up the price. Orlando doesn't expect the Pacer's to bite on that.

Unclebuck
06-17-2004, 09:24 AM
We all need to be thankful that Danny Ainge is not running our team, because he would trade all those guys for Howard or Gooden

naptownmenace
06-17-2004, 09:44 AM
The good thing is, that the Pacers and Magic are actually talking a trade. That gives credence to the rumor.

Right now Orlando is trying to drive up the price for TMac, which is par for the course in this type of situation. The Pacers probably offered Al and Bender so the Magic would be stupid not to ask for more. There'll be plenty of offers and counter offers before a deal is struck.

Cactus Jax
06-17-2004, 09:48 AM
And PacerfaninAZ, if it so easy to find a good PG, please explain to me why so many teams are looking for one :)
In reality they are a sought after commodity.

Because most teams don't try hard enough to get one. Teams that spend a little money get what they want. Detroit got Billups, Washington got Arenas, Sacramento got Bobby Jackson, and there are some other FA PG's that have been successful over the years.

fwpacerfan
06-17-2004, 10:10 AM
So this article is suggesting that the Pacers completely dismantle a team that won 61 games and lost in the ECF? Why in the world would the Pacers do this? TMac is valuable but he's not worth 2 starters from a 60+ win team, a finalist for 6th man of the year and a young, veteran player with a world of potential.

I can't fault them for asking though! :crazy:

TheSauceMaster
06-17-2004, 01:46 PM
We all need to be thankful that Danny Ainge is not running our team, because he would trade all those guys for Howard or Gooden


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Ragnar
06-17-2004, 02:18 PM
As I am sure all expect Tinsley is the deal killer for me. But maybe for a different reason that some others. Tinsley is a pure pg who passes and does care if he ever shoots. As a matter of fact I think he would rather never shoot. He would be PERFECT for a team with Jermaine, T-Mac and whoever.

If we can send them (and I think this is reasonable because of Howards long term deal and their intrest in dumping him) Al or Ron not both along with Bender Freddie and Pollard We need to do the deal. However if it is Al and Ron and Bender then Pollard should be the fourth guy and we should get both T-Mac and Howard.

In no way should we trade Tins. We need a pg. So do they and thats why they want him. Pg is one of those positions that you dont realize how important it is untill you go without one.

JONEAL7 why dont you like howard? Not every player can be a superstar. Howard puts up steady good numbers. If you look at his numbers they are very good for a 3rd option. The problem is that every team wants him to be a all star.

He shoots 45% 80% from the free throw line gets 7 rebounds per game and scored 17.8 ppg in 35 minutes per game.

Now Al shoots 46% which is not much better he shoots 73% from the free throw line which is worse and he gets 6 rebounds and 13 points in 30 minutes. They are almost the same player both are 6-9. If we are going to lose Al Howard would be the perfect fit for this team because he would not complain about being the 6th man and third option on this team. Heck if we trade Harrington and Bender he would be our starting sf. I would take that.

ROCislandWarrior
06-17-2004, 02:21 PM
The good thing is, that the Pacers and Magic are actually talking a trade. That gives credence to the rumor.

Right now Orlando is trying to drive up the price for TMac, which is par for the course in this type of situation. The Pacers probably offered Al and Bender so the Magic would be stupid not to ask for more. There'll be plenty of offers and counter offers before a deal is struck.

Yeah, they are driving up the price for everybody...now I think they will wait and see who gives them the best counter-offer.

I wonder if JO could call up Tmac and tell him to demand a trade to the Pacers?

beast23
06-17-2004, 02:22 PM
I've been saying all along the Magic would ask for TInsley somewhere down the road. With Orlando's obsession with finding a PG, this shouldnt come as a surprise.

I agree with this and if Orlando wants Tinsley so bad, maybe the Pacers can get a Harrington, Tinsley and Freddie for T-Mac or something. I like Tinsley about as much as anyone but if he can drive Orlando's aking price down a lot then again you have to do the deal.

There are pleanty of free agent PG's out there, Detroit got Billups with the MLE, and I think the Pacers could get a good PG that way as well.

I don't know if I agree with this statement at all.

The two most difficult positions to fill for any team are center and point guard. Good players at either of these positions are a rare commodity.

And if you have either one filled with quality, you better think long and hard before you sacrifice that player in a trade. Especially PG. Because if your assumptions are wrong (that it can be easily substituted for), you've just screwed your team for the next year, and for as many years after that as it takes to find a suitable replacement.

A good analogy would be that a talented team without a decent PG would be like an engine running with very little oil. It may do fine for the first few miles, but after a while it begins to fall apart.

Once other teams learn how to deal with your lineup with a weak PG, it wouldn't matter how much other talent you had on the floor, your offense is going to bog down.

So be very careful. There are substantial risks involved in dealing Tinsley.

waxman
06-17-2004, 04:54 PM
silliness....we are what?..... two stupid injuries and a shooter/scorer away from a finals appearence.... no way you blow up this team. Detroit is a prime example of why this doesn't need to be done.... we just need a suffcient consistant perimeter backcourt threat to balance the offense and that player may or may not already be on the roster....

as neat as it would be to have a McGrady type....we don't need a superstar that would require us to give up half the roster.

beast23
06-17-2004, 06:17 PM
I agree with our assessment on our needs.

I would disagree that we could take a course of action that might ASSUME that he is already on our roster.

I don't think we take that chance. We have enough horses that we can sacrifice one or two to get a quality shooter.

Now I could be convinced if you were to say that we didn't necessarily have to trade multiple viable players to acquire T-Mac because perhaps a less expensive player could fill our needs.

After all we need a consistent perimeter shooter. That's a warm body that hits outside shots. We don't necessarily need a superstar that hits outside shots. If the less expensive alternative fills our needs just as well, why spend the dollars for a name?

But the important thing is that we go get the shooter and do not sit back and wait for someone already on the roster to emerge.

JOneal7
06-17-2004, 09:37 PM
As I am sure all expect Tinsley is the deal killer for me. But maybe for a different reason that some others. Tinsley is a pure pg who passes and does care if he ever shoots. As a matter of fact I think he would rather never shoot. He would be PERFECT for a team with Jermaine, T-Mac and whoever.

If we can send them (and I think this is reasonable because of Howards long term deal and their intrest in dumping him) Al or Ron not both along with Bender Freddie and Pollard We need to do the deal. However if it is Al and Ron and Bender then Pollard should be the fourth guy and we should get both T-Mac and Howard.

In no way should we trade Tins. We need a pg. So do they and thats why they want him. Pg is one of those positions that you dont realize how important it is untill you go without one.

JONEAL7 why dont you like howard? Not every player can be a superstar. Howard puts up steady good numbers. If you look at his numbers they are very good for a 3rd option. The problem is that every team wants him to be a all star.

He shoots 45% 80% from the free throw line gets 7 rebounds per game and scored 17.8 ppg in 35 minutes per game.

Now Al shoots 46% which is not much better he shoots 73% from the free throw line which is worse and he gets 6 rebounds and 13 points in 30 minutes. They are almost the same player both are 6-9. If we are going to lose Al Howard would be the perfect fit for this team because he would not complain about being the 6th man and third option on this team. Heck if we trade Harrington and Bender he would be our starting sf. I would take that.

You really have to see him live to get what i'm saying. THe man is a black hole on offense! And he plays no defense! WHATSOEVER! you also have to take into account EVERY TEAM he has been on has sucked! It is not a coincidence! He takes horrible shots! his form is terrible and he has almost no chance of hitting the shots. Oh yeah, do you want to see the times he's turned the ball over in crunch time or made a bonehead play? how about missing layup after layup? He gets his 15-20 pts on nights. But he takes about 25-30 shots to do it.
I'll kill myself before we send howard here...DON'T LET ORLANDO OFF THE HOOK! UHG
besides i think howards gone for ESnow in orlando.

Ragnar
06-17-2004, 10:34 PM
You really have to see him live to get what i'm saying. THe man is a black hole on offense! And he plays no defense! WHATSOEVER! you also have to take into account EVERY TEAM he has been on has sucked! It is not a coincidence! He takes horrible shots! his form is terrible and he has almost no chance of hitting the shots. Oh yeah, do you want to see the times he's turned the ball over in crunch time or made a bonehead play? how about missing layup after layup? He gets his 15-20 pts on nights. But he takes about 25-30 shots to do it.
I'll kill myself before we send howard here...DON'T LET ORLANDO OFF THE HOOK! UHG
besides i think howards gone for ESnow in orlando.

You live in Florida so I will forgive the ignorance of just how much most of us have seen Juwan play. :rolleyes:

A quick Juwan Howard tutorial for you. He went to Michigan, Michigan is the enemy. He played against IU when he was at Michigan, IU was their most embarasing loss (other than Webbers screw up of course) We had Jalen Rose here for a number of years and whenever we played whatever team Howard was on they featured the matchup throught the game. I have seen a lot of Juwan Howard over the years. Dallas was better with him than they have been without him they tried to get him to come back. Denver wanted him to stay, Minnesota tried almost everything to get him to sign with them.

His Washington team had a ton of promise it was not his fault that the team owners in Washington are incredibly stupid. They have traded him, CWebb, Richard Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace just to name a few. His shooting percentage is almost identical to Al Harringtons so if you think he cant shoot then you should hate Al. His free throw percentage is better. I think he is every bit as good of a defender as Al. The problem with Orlando was that there was never any help D. No one player can do it all. Ron gets beat from time to time.

Juwan Howard would be the perfect replacement for Al they are nearly the same player but Howard is more mature and wont pout on the bench about not being in the game all the time. He would be happy to contribute quietly to a team gunning for a title.

Will Galen
06-18-2004, 06:37 AM
You live in Florida so I will forgive the ignorance of just how much most of us have seen Juwan play. :rolleyes:

A quick Juwan Howard tutorial for you. He went to Michigan, Michigan is the enemy. He played against IU when he was at Michigan, IU was their most embarasing loss (other than Webbers screw up of course) We had Jalen Rose here for a number of years and whenever we played whatever team Howard was on they featured the matchup throught the game. I have seen a lot of Juwan Howard over the years. Dallas was better with him than they have been without him they tried to get him to come back. Denver wanted him to stay, Minnesota tried almost everything to get him to sign with them.

His Washington team had a ton of promise it was not his fault that the team owners in Washington are incredibly stupid. They have traded him, CWebb, Richard Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace just to name a few. His shooting percentage is almost identical to Al Harringtons so if you think he cant shoot then you should hate Al. His free throw percentage is better. I think he is every bit as good of a defender as Al. The problem with Orlando was that there was never any help D. No one player can do it all. Ron gets beat from time to time.

Juwan Howard would be the perfect replacement for Al they are nearly the same player but Howard is more mature and wont pout on the bench about not being in the game all the time. He would be happy to contribute quietly to a team gunning for a title.

Good post, you convinced me!