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Lord Helmet
09-07-2008, 01:53 PM
:bears: (0-0) The Bears last met the Colts in Miami, FL, the site, Super Bowl XLI, where they were defeated, 29-17. The Bears would enjoy a victory tonight and a little revenge.

:colts: (0-0) With losses at the offensive line, the Colts are going to have to make due with what they have. Nothing the Colts haven't grown accustomed to. In 2007, the Colts saw injuries to key starters such as WR Marvin Harrison and DE Dwight Freeney.

Time: 8:15 PM ET

Location: Lucas Oil Stadium, Indianapolis, IN

Television: :nbcsports:

Moses
09-07-2008, 09:10 PM
I'm very surprised at how well the Chicago offense is moving the ball.

pacercoltfan
09-07-2008, 09:11 PM
I'm surprised that there's only 3 posts on this thread so far. lol :laugh:


Come on :colts:!

pacercoltfan
09-07-2008, 10:07 PM
Hopefully we'll get it together in the 2nd half!!!!!

go :colts:!

sweabs
09-07-2008, 10:08 PM
Bears have looked good so far. Orton has actually exceeded my expectations (for this first half, at least). I've been very impressed with Forte, but I think our rush defense looks pretty as of right now.

sweabs
09-07-2008, 10:10 PM
Heh - good try, Devin. And that's how you look like an idiot.

sweabs
09-07-2008, 10:37 PM
O-line looks like poo.

pacercoltfan
09-07-2008, 10:39 PM
Well this game stinks!!!!!!!!! :mad: Makes me wanna :rant::scream:

Trader Joe
09-07-2008, 11:05 PM
This team will be lucky to win six games this year. I don't even want to think of what Minny is going to do to this **** poor defense. Bob has turned into the Freeney of the secondary and bites on every play action. The offensive line is total ****.

Eindar
09-07-2008, 11:20 PM
Don't everyone jump off the bandwagon at once. Look, it's going to take time. Freeney will be rusty. Peyton is going to be rusty for about 3 or 4 more games. Him not having Saturday will hurt both him and Addai's numbers. Regardless of all that, I still think they'll probably end up being a wild card team, which is more than a lot of NFL franchises can say for themselves.

On the flipside, the Bears looked pretty good! I don't know if they'll be able to sustain that level of play, but if so, they could be a sleeper this year.

EDIT: It's not how you start the season, it's how you end it. Regardless, for my Chiefs, that's still going to be pretty poorly, haha. :(

Bball
09-07-2008, 11:21 PM
Losing this first game is probably the best thing that could happen to this team. Hopefully, it'll serve as a wakeup call and put some fire in them. I don't expect them to get too many wakeup calls from Dungy since I'm not sure he's awake himself.

I like Dungy for what he represents as a person but he should've retired already... not that he's the sole reason this team is losing.

Obviously there was going to be rust but the Colts just didn't look ready tonight nor did they look to be playing with much passion.

-Bball

Stryder
09-07-2008, 11:24 PM
Way to justify your 700+ million dollar stadium...

Oh wait, it's OUR stadium...

I guess the upside is that you can't get much worse than this...or can it? When Forte busted free on the 50 yard run, I thought out-loud, typical Colts' defense.

Suaveness
09-07-2008, 11:25 PM
Colts just not in it at all. No passion as mentioned, no fire, especially on defense. I can understand the offense being quite rusty, but the defense should not have been THIS rusty. Boy oh boy.

I certainly hope this is something we can use to help us, and not a predictor of things to come.

Pacers#1Fan
09-07-2008, 11:27 PM
This is pathetic... No heart no anything. Yeah we don't have Saturday, that is NO excuse for the sorry effort they just put up!

Slick Pinkham
09-07-2008, 11:30 PM
I'm enjoying it, after seeing so many Colts boards (not this one) positively GIDDY about Brady being injured and lost for the year

Aw Heck
09-07-2008, 11:31 PM
Not a great way to start the season but all things considered, it's not that unexpected.

Oh well. It's only the first week. What most Colts fans should know by now is that it's not how you start, it's how you finish. I'd rather see the Colts earn a wildcard bid anyway. We all know how they handle bye weeks in the playoffs.

Big Smooth
09-07-2008, 11:33 PM
I'm a diehard Bears fan and man, this win feels good. The entire offseason has just been negativity amongst the Bears fans I know and everyone expected to get blown out tonight. It just feels good to be pleasantly surprised.

I'll still swear to my grave that if the Bears had Tommie Harris and Mike Brown in the Super Bowl......ugh. Nevermind, I know it sounds weak. But that will always bother me. :(

Good game Colts, I know y'all will get better from here. :)

Bball
09-07-2008, 11:36 PM
I know we always suck in the preseason and then flip the switch for the season. But with Peyton out this preseason, and with some of the holes we were looking at, I thought more coaching needed to take place in the preseason. We need to take those games more seriously, not just go thru the motions. Especially for years like this.

I think this Chicago game is a carryover from just going thru the motions in preseason and the amount this team relies on Peyton and timing. When the offense wasn't clicking the defense seemed to get demoralized pretty quickly and there was nothing to fall back on.

This reminds me of the Colts after getting a week off heading into the playoffs. Just totally not properly prepared and out of sync.

That's a historical problem for this team under Dungy. ...

Moses
09-07-2008, 11:38 PM
I'm enjoying it, after seeing so many Colts boards (not this one) positively GIDDY about Brady being injured and lost for the year
The same fans that preach being "classy." What is worse..A coach who cheats in a game or someone who wishes a very painful and potentially career threatening injury on a person they don't even know?

With that said, most of the Colts fans on this board are awesome so I don't think many of them were celebrating Brady going down.

I was rooting for the Bears, but only because I root for the underdog in games I don't care about. Was nice seeing the Bears defense playing well now that they are healthy.

Bball
09-07-2008, 11:39 PM
I'm enjoying it, after seeing so many Colts boards (not this one) positively GIDDY about Brady being injured and lost for the year


How could we be giddy about that... It only means we'll hear twice as much about Brady as we already would've on every sports report we tune to between now and whenever he returns.

BradyBradyBradyFavreBradyFavreBradyBradyBrady.....

-Bball

pacercoltfan
09-07-2008, 11:41 PM
I hope Dallas is ok!

idioteque
09-07-2008, 11:42 PM
The same fans that preach being "classy." What is worse..A coach who cheats in a game or someone who wishes a very painful and potentially career threatening injury on a person they don't even know?

With that said, most of the Colts fans on this board are awesome so I don't think many of them were celebrating Brady going down.

...then why complain about other Colts fans on here. There are plenty of trollish Colts boards to post that kind of stuff, and there it's well justified but I don't see it as justified on this board IMHO.

But at the same time I sympathize with you because you just lost your franchise player for probably the whole season. I'm bummed out because if there Colts somehow bounce back and win it all this year Pats fans will always be able to put an asterisk by it in terms of our little rivalry.

idioteque
09-07-2008, 11:44 PM
And about tonight's game: I knew the OL was bad and that this team is not as good as it has been, but really I didn't think it would be this bad. Our OL is pretty awful and it's making me wonder why we let Jake Scott go so easily in the offseason.

We can either buck up in the trenches and be successful or we'll be screwed all year.

Suaveness
09-08-2008, 12:05 AM
I do feel bad about Brady...while I dislike the Pats immensely, I certainly didn't want this to happen.

I worry if we can wake up. I hope this "rust" doesn't continue all season. It's the defense that really disappointed me today.

SoupIsGood
09-08-2008, 12:14 AM
...then why complain about other Colts fans on here. There are plenty of trollish Colts boards to post that kind of stuff, and there it's well justified but I don't see it as justified on this board IMHO.



Seconded.


---


My concerns about our line play look pretty well justified as of right now. Our protection was better than I expected (it was horrible last year), but we couldn't run or stop the run at all. We'll suck just as much as the Bradyless Pats if we can't fix that.

Bball
09-08-2008, 12:37 AM
I don't think the "Bradiless" will suck. They obviously won't be as good as they could've been but they have great coaching (like him or not) and they'll be able to make something out of it and at least be competitive this season.

-Bball

SoupIsGood
09-08-2008, 12:41 AM
Well for the Colts/Pats "sucking" is anything that isn't dominance. I was probably a little over the top. We've certainly had decent seasons before w/o being able to stop the run.

Lord Helmet
09-08-2008, 01:41 AM
This team will be lucky to win six games this year. I don't even want to think of what Minny is going to do to this **** poor defense. Bob has turned into the Freeney of the secondary and bites on every play action. The offensive line is total ****.
Let's not go overboard yet. I don't think we need to panic yet, I'm as upset as most fans, but it's the first game of the year and we have 15 more to go.

I think Peyton looked fine, the protection wasn't half bad, but we couldn't afford the big drops we had. We also never had too many big plays. The defense looked average only a few times, that's something we have to work on.

Also, I don't understand why Peyton was in the game with 2:00 to go in the 4th, you'd think with the Brady injury today we'd have been extra careful, but yet here he was in the lineup with the game already out of reach. I didn't agree with that at all.

Have to make corrections this week and see what we can do against the Vikings.


I'm enjoying it, after seeing so many Colts boards (not this one) positively GIDDY about Brady being injured and lost for the year
I feel terrible with what happened to Brady.


The same fans that preach being "classy." What is worse..A coach who cheats in a game or someone who wishes a very painful and potentially career threatening injury on a person they don't even know?

With that said, most of the Colts fans on this board are awesome so I don't think many of them were celebrating Brady going down.

I was rooting for the Bears, but only because I root for the underdog in games I don't care about. Was nice seeing the Bears defense playing well now that they are healthy.
I think everyone on here that's a Colts fan has expressed as feeling bad for what happened to Brady. By posting stuff like that, it kind of seems you're trying to take a shot at us here.


I'm a diehard Bears fan and man, this win feels good. The entire offseason has just been negativity amongst the Bears fans I know and everyone expected to get blown out tonight. It just feels good to be pleasantly surprised.

I'll still swear to my grave that if the Bears had Tommie Harris and Mike Brown in the Super Bowl......ugh. Nevermind, I know it sounds weak. But that will always bother me. :(

Good game Colts, I know y'all will get better from here. :)
Good game, too. You guys played exceptional. Offense looked great, and you really just outplayed us tonight. I can only hope you're right about us.....

naptownmenace
09-08-2008, 10:15 AM
Not a great way to start the season but all things considered, it's not that unexpected.

Oh well. It's only the first week. What most Colts fans should know by now is that it's not how you start, it's how you finish. I'd rather see the Colts earn a wildcard bid anyway. We all know how they handle bye weeks in the playoffs.

Ditto.

I expected the team to take a couple of steps backwards this year just because of the number of injuries and players returning from injuries. A 10-6 season is probably what we can expect. That should be enough for a wild-card berth. If they finish strong, like the Chargers did last year, they'll still have a shot at the Super Bowl.

pwee31
09-08-2008, 11:00 AM
I didn't think the defense looked too bad last night. I thought the offense put them in bad positions, and the Bears really made some good play calls in key situations

I expect our offense to bounce back next week

DisplacedKnick
09-08-2008, 11:13 AM
I expected to be watching football and switching over to tennis during commercials but by halftime I was watching tennis and switching over to football during commercials. Ugly game. And Orton showed why he was starting over Grossman - Rex might have figured a way to lose it.

Colts will be OK but the O-line really had some problems and there were the obvious mistakes. I will say Freeney looked better than I expected - had a lot of his drive that I thought wouldn't be back thissoon.

Trader Joe
09-08-2008, 11:24 AM
The defense just looked totally out of it last night guys. Our linebackers looked average which is scary because talent wise most of them are just that average, and Bethea and Sanders were no where near capable of making up from it. Both of them took a remarkable amount of poor angles at runners and both looked absolutely loss on some pass defense plays. IMO, Dungy's defense is a gimick defense and always has been, and last night the Bears took that gimick defense out behind the woodshed. Some will say, "They only gave up 20 points." And you'd be right, but this is the Bears offense we are talking about fellas, and if we want to compete at all in this division the D is going to have to get way better. Bottom line from last night is this, we got our butts handed to us by a team that probably won't finish better than third in their division in the NFC. That is not good. Our schedule is absolute murder, and it gets no easier from here on out.

Also, I thought Peyton looked awful. Not just his presence in the pocket, but his mechanics were underwhelming to say the least. He was short arming throws late in the game, and he was overthrowing just about anyone that ran a route over 15 yards pretty much all game.

Play calling was also extremely suspect. Our best runs came from sweeps and tosses, yet Manning/Moore called some of the most crucial plays (goal line, 4th and 1) as straight up the gut runs behind three guys that shouldn't even be on a NFL squad let alone starting. Didn't make sense at all.

Plus with the possible losses of Dallas and Joe, I don't see this season getting much brighter anytime in the future.

I said it over the offseason, and I'll stick by my statement, I don't think Dungy's heart is behind football enough. That's not a quick reaction to one loss, I've said it all summer. Like it or not that team was not prepared at all last night for the Bears, and that has to go on Dungy's shoulders. Along with the horrible or non-existent in game adjustments.

Jonathan
09-08-2008, 12:01 PM
The Bears are a good team. They have a lot of players back on defense and Orton is a decent QB (not flashy but he does not make many mistakes)
I thought Jermy Richard did a good job at the C position. I am upset about our play in the red zone we get down there call two timeouts and get flagged. I do not understand why we do not put Rhodes & Addai in an I formation and go second back thru or dump pass to our TE's or one of them out of the backfield?

RWB
09-08-2008, 12:17 PM
Losing this first game is probably the best thing that could happen to this team. Hopefully, it'll serve as a wakeup call and put some fire in them. I don't expect them to get too many wakeup calls from Dungy since I'm not sure he's awake himself.

I like Dungy for what he represents as a person but he should've retired already... not that he's the sole reason this team is losing.

Obviously there was going to be rust but the Colts just didn't look ready tonight nor did they look to be playing with much passion.

-Bball

Remember the comment the DL line coach made? :ding:

Shade
09-08-2008, 12:21 PM
I'm not too concerned. We just looked uncharacteristically out of synch, which probably has a lot to do with Peyton missing preseason. We'll get back to where we need to be, and the AFC looks wide open at the moment.

Moses
09-08-2008, 12:39 PM
I think everyone on here that's a Colts fan has expressed as feeling bad for what happened to Brady. By posting stuff like that, it kind of seems you're trying to take a shot at us here.

I did not intend for it to be a shot at anyone here. That was just a bit of an off topic vent that probably should have been on another board. Anyways, Brady being done for the year is off topic.

To keep it short, the biggest problems I saw were that Peyton had some rust and was playing to conservative, Urlacher bulldozing your center into the backfield on every play, and your defense getting destroyed by the run. You can't take away from what the Bears did either. They played very well...that is the best I've seen them play since 2006. Another thing I noticed is that Lucas Oil Stadium wasn't very loud...In fact the Bears switched back to verbal snap count about 2-3 minutes into the game.

idioteque
09-08-2008, 12:45 PM
Another thing I noticed is that Lucas Oil Stadium wasn't very loud...In fact the Bears switched back to verbal snap count about 2-3 minutes into the game.

Probably has to do with two things, the first one being much more important.

1.) Lucas Oil is much bigger than the RCA Dome, but sits roughly the same number of people, and the roof was open.

2.) There were a fair number of Bears fans there since Chicago and Indianapolis are pretty close to one another.

Frankly I am still kinda vexed by the whole stadium issue. Sure we needed something that looked nicer, but the size of it relative to the amount of people it sits is kind of unnecessary which makes it hard for the fans to be too loud there. On TV it almost looks like a big concrete thing with a few seats thrown in there, while the RCA Dome seemed like a dome full of seats.

Moses
09-08-2008, 12:47 PM
Probably has to do with two things, the first one being much more important.

1.) Lucas Oil is much bigger than the RCA Dome, but sits roughly the same number of people, and the roof was open.

2.) There were a fair number of Bears fans there since Chicago and Indianapolis are pretty close to one another.
Yeah, I noticed the roof being open. Do you think it will be as loud as the RCA Dome during a playoff game (assuming they close the roof)?

DisplacedKnick
09-08-2008, 03:40 PM
Yeah, I noticed the roof being open. Do you think it will be as loud as the RCA Dome during a playoff game (assuming they close the roof)?

Doubtful - the Dome's acoustics were somehow freakish - be a surprise if they managed to duplicate that with the new building. It'll still be loud but normal dome loud.

Bball
09-08-2008, 06:19 PM
Yeah, I noticed the roof being open. Do you think it will be as loud as the RCA Dome during a playoff game (assuming they close the roof)?

It depends on how many open mics they can manage to keep open:

"Yes, Mr Natl Anthem singer just leave the mic on after you're done singing and I'll put it in the stand here at the sidelines and shut it off.... What? Oh I won't forget to turn it off. And even if I do I'm sure our audio tech won't forget to mute it. (wink wink)"

;)

-Bball

Bball
09-08-2008, 06:48 PM
Remember the comment the DL line coach made? :ding:

Pretty sure I know what you mean... Taking it too easy?

The Colts always look like crap (moreso than they should IMHO) in the preseason but last night they weren't able to flip the switch at all.

Nothing like a HC not known for much fire and passion anyway who now doesn't seem to have his heart into coaching in the first place.

I have a feeling when he should've been analyzing the team and crafting his plans for the 08-09 campaign he was more busy on crafting a children's book. If he didn't really want to come back and his heart wasn't in it, I really wish Irsay would've just let him go rather than talking him into staying... whatever the arrangement.

...But what do I know... Jimmy Irsay and Tony Dungy have a Superbowl trophy. Then again, they only have 1 more than I do! ;)

-Bball

grace
09-08-2008, 08:25 PM
I'm not too concerned.

And that's the problem. Aren't you the one who said the sky was falling the year we won the Super Bowl? Unless you change your tune quick the Colts may not win a game this season!

Trader Joe
09-08-2008, 09:47 PM
The Luc sucks for noise. Much like Conseco it was built to cater to the corporate supporters. It's nice and plush, and there aren't too many bad seats in the house, but it sucks for noise. The Dome and MSA were tinderboxes in terms of quality when compared to them, but they were LOUD.

BlueNGold
09-08-2008, 11:11 PM
Not a huge Colts fan here, but there is no cause for concern IMO.

Manning has not played and both the offense and defense suffered because of it. It's not only better for the defense to practice against Manning to prepare for the season instead of a backup. A well tuned Manning will give them a lot more rest during the game by giving the opposition less time of possession. As for offense, the timing is crucial and cannot possibly be on at this point...and that's huge. The truth is, sitting Manning out for the entire preseason made the team as a whole rusty. If that had not happened, it probably would have been 38-20 Colts...

Slick Pinkham
09-09-2008, 09:42 AM
I think everyone on here that's a Colts fan has expressed as feeling bad for what happened to Brady...


I know, I found that refreshing.

I made the mistake of lurking on a few Colts sites (I belong and post on exactly none of them) and found a radically different consensus attitude. I don't know whether there happens to be a polite core of Colts fans here outside the mainstream of Colts fans, or if those other sites just tend to bring out the lunatic fringe and get people riled up enough to waste their time photoshop jobs bashing Brady for being a pansy, gay, getting what he deserves, etc.

One non-obscene example I saw on a Colts board:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4540/pollardsc0.png

I find that type of attitude distasteful to say the least, and fortunately it doesn't prevail here.

Sollozzo
09-09-2008, 12:19 PM
I know, I found that refreshing.

I made the mistake of lurking on a few Colts sites (I belong and post on exactly none of them) and found a radically different consensus attitude. I don't know whether there happens to be a polite core of Colts fans here outside the mainstream of Colts fans, or if those other sites just tend to bring out the lunatic fringe and get people riled up enough to waste their time photoshop jobs bashing Brady for being a pansy, gay, getting what he deserves, etc.

One non-obscene example I saw on a Colts board:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4540/pollardsc0.png

I find that type of attitude distasteful to say the least, and fortunately it doesn't prevail here.

I'm guessing you didn't check Coltsfreaks.com? The attitude on that forum is similar to the one here, that is, people are sympathizing with Brady.

http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8181&page=2

Slick Pinkham
09-09-2008, 01:32 PM
thanks for that link-- never been there I don't think.

I wonder if the media is going to notice the Cassel story. It's pretty incredible.

He was a 2-sport high school standout, a high major 5-star recruit who decided to go to USC, who already had a young QB named Carson Palmer who had struggled mightily as a sophomore (16 TDs, 18 INTs, 54% completion percentage). Palmer "got it" his junior year, so Cassel sat two years then was ready to take the reins.

Then the #1 high school player in the nation, Matt Leinart, commited to USC and beat him out in preseason practice. 2 years after having turned down multiple high major programs, Cassel decided not to transfer. Leinart blossomed, Cassel played tight end and special teams to keep sharp, entered the 2005 draft as an unknown football player, a QB who hadn't started a game since high school but who had backed up two Heisman trophy winners.

He wowed NFL scouts at USC's pro day, and was a surprise 7th round pick. He backed up a player who missed zero games over 3 years, beating out at least 6 other backups for the job. Then in a bizarre twist, he now gets to start his first game in 9 years and first since high school, vs. the Patriot's main rival and opposite Brett Favre.

That's a pretty wild journey.

Too bad it's a 4:15 game and I will be stuck with Miami-Arizona, unless that grainy pirate internet feed works for me.

Lord Helmet
09-09-2008, 02:59 PM
I know, I found that refreshing.

I made the mistake of lurking on a few Colts sites (I belong and post on exactly none of them) and found a radically different consensus attitude. I don't know whether there happens to be a polite core of Colts fans here outside the mainstream of Colts fans, or if those other sites just tend to bring out the lunatic fringe and get people riled up enough to waste their time photoshop jobs bashing Brady for being a pansy, gay, getting what he deserves, etc.

One non-obscene example I saw on a Colts board:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4540/pollardsc0.png

I find that type of attitude distasteful to say the least, and fortunately it doesn't prevail here.
My philosophy is every team has their ******* fans.

Sollozzo
09-09-2008, 03:02 PM
thanks for that link-- never been there I don't think.

I wonder if the media is going to notice the Cassel story. It's pretty incredible.

He was a 2-sport high school standout, a high major 5-star recruit who decided to go to USC, who already had a young QB named Carson Palmer who had struggled mightily as a sophomore (16 TDs, 18 INTs, 54% completion percentage). Palmer "got it" his junior year, so Cassel sat two years then was ready to take the reins.

Then the #1 high school player in the nation, Matt Leinart, commited to USC and beat him out in preseason practice. 2 years after having turned down multiple high major programs, Cassel decided not to transfer. Leinart blossomed, Cassel played tight end and special teams to keep sharp, entered the 2005 draft as an unknown football player, a QB who hadn't started a game since high school but who had backed up two Heisman trophy winners.

He wowed NFL scouts at USC's pro day, and was a surprise 7th round pick. He backed up a player who missed zero games over 3 years, beating out at least 6 other backups for the job. Then in a bizarre twist, he now gets to start his first game in 9 years and first since high school, vs. the Patriot's main rival and opposite Brett Favre.

That's a pretty wild journey.

Too bad it's a 4:15 game and I will be stuck with Miami-Arizona, unless that grainy pirate internet feed works for me.


Thanks for the background. I was wondering how someone who threw just 33 passes in college could wind up as a 7th round draft pick, but that certainly clears it up.

As a Colts fan, I hate that Brady is out all year. Obviously I hate to see any player injured, but this certainly takes a bit of fun out of the Colts season. I think I speak for most Colts fans when I say that the Pats game is the first game I look for when the schedule is released. I can't imagine not playing him this year.

I think that Manning needs Brady and Brady needs Manning. It's tragic that we won't see another great matchup this year, and it's tragic that Brady will miss a year of the prime of his career. For an athlete, every year is precious, especially once you hit your 30's.

Bball
09-09-2008, 04:30 PM
Thanks for the background. I was wondering how someone who threw just 33 passes in college could wind up as a 7th round draft pick, but that certainly clears it up.

As a Colts fan, I hate that Brady is out all year. Obviously I hate to see any player injured, but this certainly takes a bit of fun out of the Colts season. I think I speak for most Colts fans when I say that the Pats game is the first game I look for when the schedule is released. I can't imagine not playing him this year.

I think that Manning needs Brady and Brady needs Manning. It's tragic that we won't see another great matchup this year, and it's tragic that Brady will miss a year of the prime of his career. For an athlete, every year is precious, especially once you hit your 30's.


Don't worry, the Colts have had a history of making 2nd string QB's look like Tom Brady. If memory serves, they even made Tom Brady look like Tom Brady with an early career appearance for a halftime hail Mary.

I have a feeling we'll get all we want from the Pats even if TB isn't under center.

I apologize in advance for the Shade-like optimism....

-Bball

ChicagoJ
09-09-2008, 05:18 PM
Something you need to consider...

when Roethlesberger missed the entire training camp, he looked lousy for the first five-six weeks. Of course, he also had an appendectomy after Week #1, which prolonged his "training camp."

He really finished that season strong, but 2-6 was too big a hole for the defending Super Bowl champs.

As far as I know, Manning isn't having an appendectomy or any other surgery, so he should start looking like an NFL caliber QB again in another 3-5 weeks, not eight.

That will also "fix" your run defense, which has always benefited statistically from having a lead that forces your opponents (except Pittsburgh) to abandon the run. Bill Cowher keeps preaching this, but he's been the only person to stick to it during a game until the other night.

As for Brady/ the Patriots, his injury is very similar to Carson Palmer's. I expect Brady on the field next season, but that he won't look like the Tom Brady that we are all jealous of until the 2010 season. Just like it has taken Carson Palmer a long time to regain his top form (and it is debateable that he has even regained it yet?)

Moses
09-09-2008, 05:44 PM
Something you need to consider...

when Roethlesberger missed the entire training camp, he looked lousy for the first five-six weeks. Of course, he also had an appendectomy after Week #1, which prolonged his "training camp."

He really finished that season strong, but 2-6 was too big a hole for the defending Super Bowl champs.

As far as I know, Manning isn't having an appendectomy or any other surgery, so he should start looking like an NFL caliber QB again in another 3-5 weeks, not eight.

That will also "fix" your run defense, which has always benefited statistically from having a lead that forces your opponents (except Pittsburgh) to abandon the run. Bill Cowher keeps preaching this, but he's been the only person to stick to it during a game until the other night.

As for Brady/ the Patriots, his injury is very similar to Carson Palmer's. I expect Brady on the field next season, but that he won't look like the Tom Brady that we are all jealous of until the 2010 season. Just like it has taken Carson Palmer a long time to regain his top form (and it is debateable that he has even regained it yet?)
While the Pats haven't released what the injury was exactly, I don't think it is quite as bad as Palmers. Palmer tore both his MCL+ACL and also had damage to cartilage and his meniscus. Another thing to remember is that Palmer injured his knee in the playoffs and only had that spring and summer to heal up. Brady has nearly a full year to heal up before next season. Obviously there will be rust and I don't expect him to ever come anywhere close to 50 TDs again, but he should be good to go by the opener. Or at least that is what I'm telling myself. :D

On a side note, we don't really know if Palmer is back to form yet because he is running for his life on every play as soon as the ball is snapped. The Bengals are going to be awful this year. They were so out of sync against the Ravens it was almost unbelievable.

ChicagoJ
09-09-2008, 06:21 PM
While the Pats haven't released what the injury was exactly, I don't think it is quite as bad as Palmers. Palmer tore both his MCL+ACL and also had damage to cartilage and his meniscus. Another thing to remember is that Palmer injured his knee in the playoffs and only had that spring and summer to heal up. Brady has nearly a full year to heal up before next season. Obviously there will be rust and I don't expect him to ever come anywhere close to 50 TDs again, but he should be good to go by the opener. Or at least that is what I'm telling myself. :D

On a side note, we don't really know if Palmer is back to form yet because he is running for his life on every play as soon as the ball is snapped. The Bengals are going to be awful this year. They were so out of sync against the Ravens it was almost unbelievable.

The hits were nearly identical. I'm working with the assumption that Brady has MCL and miniscus issues as well. And I think that is reasonable, as an unforced pivot of the lower leg rarely "only" affects the ACL.

He'll play all next season, he just won't look "like himself." There is a huge difference between "ready to play again" and "ready to play like Tom Brady again."

I agree on Palmer, thus the disclaimor. He came back to the "old Bengals", not the "playoff Bengals." I still think Palmer is an excellent QB but that team is making me look wrong (not that I mind the Bengals looking bad, as the rest of my family was Bengals fans before the Colts moved to Indy and they didn't give up their team, either - at least not until the late 1990s when the Scaredy-cats were just damn awful and they just quit watching football altogether.) The Bungles looked almost as out-of-sync as the Texans did.

ChicagoJ
09-11-2008, 12:35 PM
According to ESPN, its an ACL and MCL, but nothing with the cartilege. No mention of meniscus, but cartilege and miniscus are quite minor relative to either the ACL or MCL.

He'll be ready to play in training camp. But he won't be ready to play "like Tom Brady" until training camp of 2010.

2minutes twowa
09-11-2008, 01:03 PM
Something you need to consider...

when Roethlesberger missed the entire training camp, he looked lousy for the first five-six weeks. Of course, he also had an appendectomy after Week #1, which prolonged his "training camp."

He really finished that season strong, but 2-6 was too big a hole for the defending Super Bowl champs.

As far as I know, Manning isn't having an appendectomy or any other surgery, so he should start looking like an NFL caliber QB again in another 3-5 weeks, not eight.

That will also "fix" your run defense, which has always benefited statistically from having a lead that forces your opponents (except Pittsburgh) to abandon the run. Bill Cowher keeps preaching this, but he's been the only person to stick to it during a game until the other night.

As for Brady/ the Patriots, his injury is very similar to Carson Palmer's. I expect Brady on the field next season, but that he won't look like the Tom Brady that we are all jealous of until the 2010 season. Just like it has taken Carson Palmer a long time to regain his top form (and it is debateable that he has even regained it yet?)

Totally agree. Usually having an early bye sucks, but this time it's a blessing. I think Manning will be back to almost 100% by week 5 after the bye. If they can at least enter the bye with a 1-2 record, they could still finish strong. As soon as Manning is able to do the stretch play, the offense will be back to full strength. That stretch play is what really opens up the play action.

DisplacedKnick
09-11-2008, 01:33 PM
I think comparing Manning's recovery to Roethlisberger is kind of silly myself. Ben was entering his 2nd year in the league. Peyton's been around just a tad longer than that and should get his timing and rhythm back a lot quicker.

But he won't unless the offensive line, which sucked, improves. His problems probably had something to do with missing preseason, but to me it had a LOT more to do with poor pass protection and no running game. If Saturday comes back this weekend it'll help - he's the guy who calls the blocking schemes and it was obvious the other night that a lot of line assignments were missed.

ChicagoJ
09-11-2008, 04:09 PM
Ben was entering his third year.

I'm talking mostly about "timing" for this type of injury. Ben was out of sync with everyone. O-line, receivers, RBs. Ben was a half-second or more behind everyone else.

It doesn't matter that Peyton can read the defense and throw a great spiral if everything is out of sync because he's on Week #1 of training camp everyone else is in week #3 of the regular season.