PDA

View Full Version : Beijing Olympics Thread



Pages : [1] 2

JayRedd
08-05-2008, 03:43 PM
We've got the USA Basketball thread on the main forum, but with the games approaching, figured we may as well start one up here to discuss all the other events.

But mainly, I just wanted to post this graphic that proves how much better Cuba is than Canada. Also, check out 1904. Yeah...that's right.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/08/04/sports/olympics/20080804_MEDALCOUNT_MAP.html

Unclebuck
08-05-2008, 03:51 PM
I really like the Summer Olympics, I can hardly wait. Swimming and Track and Field are my favorites - but I like the whole event

avoidingtheclowns
08-05-2008, 04:02 PM
european handball FTW!

kPgnRff5EVg

grace
08-05-2008, 04:59 PM
I used to love the Olympics. Now I'll be shocked if I watch any of it.

Trader Joe
08-05-2008, 05:03 PM
I'll be looking forward to the soccer.

Raoul Duke
08-05-2008, 05:03 PM
I've been waiting for this thread!!!

DisplacedKnick
08-05-2008, 05:32 PM
There's a lot of stuff I watch during the Olympics that I'd never even look at any other time.

I do draw the line at synchronized swimming though. If that's a sport they should add ballroom dancing.

indygeezer
08-05-2008, 09:48 PM
Well since Jr. has met the gymnist from McCordsville and his High School, we'll prolly be watching alot of gymnastics.

I don't know if it is still true but there used to be an archer from Southern Indiana on the Olympic team.

Eindar
08-05-2008, 11:26 PM
Well since Jr. has met the gymnist from McCordsville and his High School, we'll prolly be watching alot of gymnastics.

I don't know if it is still true but there used to be an archer from Southern Indiana on the Olympic team.

I went to grade school with Thomas Finchum, who's going to be doing synchronized diving, and has a good shot at a medal. A south side Indy product, for the record.

Raskolnikov
08-06-2008, 04:33 AM
Football starts tomorrow already. Belgium plays Brazil. Tough opener, but I'm realistically hoping for a tie. We have a good team, and should be able to qualify for the quarter finals.

Robertmto
08-06-2008, 10:26 AM
Football starts tomorrow already. Belgium plays Brazil. Tough opener, but I'm realistically hoping for a tie. We have a good team, and should be able to qualify for the quarter finals.

since when is football an Olympic sport? I like the US over everybody

:-p

Since86
08-06-2008, 11:28 AM
Well since Jr. has met the gymnist from McCordsville and his High School, we'll prolly be watching alot of gymnastics.

I don't know if it is still true but there used to be an archer from Southern Indiana on the Olympic team.

I know I would go to jail, and it's a tad bit creepy, but I'll watch anything for a glimpse of Shawn Johnson. She's definately a winner of the gene pool.

Since86
08-06-2008, 12:54 PM
Okay, I officially became a fan of the Brazilian synchronized swim team.

Twins. Smoking. Hot.

http://withleather.uproxx.com/photo.phtml?post_key=6567&photo_key=2039

LoneGranger33
08-06-2008, 01:06 PM
Handball goalie looks to be an impossible job.

Mourning
08-06-2008, 02:04 PM
Football starts tomorrow already. Belgium plays Brazil. Tough opener, but I'm realistically hoping for a tie. We have a good team, and should be able to qualify for the quarter finals.

Ouch! Tough opener indeed! We open against Nigeria... pretty harsh too, but Brasil... wow. Belgium has a pretty good young and talented team actually.

I have no idea how far we will come. We won the last European U-21 championships two years ago I think, but these sort of tournaments are a little bit like a lottery aswell. We'll see.

Either way I will be rooting for the BeNeLux countries (minus Luxembourg ;)).

Raskolnikov
08-07-2008, 08:08 AM
Lost 1-0. Crap. Good first half, in which we had the best chance. Second half Brazil was better, and they got some good chances. Then, just as we were getting back into the game, one of our defenders gets a stupid 2nd yellow card, ergo red (his first wasn't even a foul though). Of course Brazil starts putting pressure now, and some bad defending and a great strike results in a goal. Near the end, another one of our players gets a 2nd yellow for no obvious reason. We didn't really have the referee on our side in this one...

The loss is maybe not so bad (although 15 minutes before the end we were heading for a well deserved tie), worse is that we miss two players for the next game.

Putnam
08-07-2008, 09:15 AM
Bridget Sloan is from Pittsboro, a town of 1 steel mill and 3 gas stations, about 20 minutes west of Indianapolis. She is on a US women's gymnastics team that is expected to do better than any team hs done for a dozen years or more.


Each day now as I drive to work, most yards along th way feature a, "Bruins Backing Bridget" placard. (Bruins being the local high school mascot.)

I am actually looking forward to the gymnastics competition....which is the first time ever.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0aUT2q57x63YS/610x.jpg


Anybody know, without googling it, who Pittsboro's other well-known citizen is?


.

Spicoli
08-07-2008, 09:43 AM
http://sumag.net/Portals/0/jeff-gordon-zune.jpg

Putnam
08-07-2008, 10:13 AM
Spicoli is on it.

Spicoli
08-07-2008, 10:21 AM
Whenever I drive back to visit the folks in Fountain county I have to pass under the "Jeff Gordon Overpass" or something like that on I-74...

Raskolnikov
08-07-2008, 10:25 AM
China and New-Zealand tied 1-1, good result for us.

Netherlands tied 0-0 against Nigeria. Did you see the game, Mourning?

DisplacedKnick
08-07-2008, 10:31 AM
Be amazing if the US men end up outperforming the US women in soccer this year - so far that's what's happening. I'd think the women could at least get out of group though.

Putnam
08-07-2008, 11:19 AM
Question:

Is it the will of the group that this thread does or doesn't get hijacked by a discussion about whether soccer is or isn't the greatest sport in the world and whether America's unique disdain for the sport is to its credit or detriment?

I'm good either way.

Mourning
08-07-2008, 12:40 PM
China and New-Zealand tied 1-1, good result for us.

Netherlands tied 0-0 against Nigeria. Did you see the game, Mourning?

Meh... W-O-R-K :(. But, I saw the outcome on the net. Commentator on the radio said our team didn't play nearly up to the high expectations of winning the U-21 championships twice and could have definitely lost aswell.

I dunno, it's just one game and well in a tournament almost all teams that go far have one lousy or bad game, I'm hoping that was this one for us. OTOH the African teams are always very physical with the younger ages, so I can't say I'm a little surprised this is a tough opponent, they won it in 1996 in Atlanta I believe.

Playing the U.S. on sunday I think. Definitely will watch that one. Normally we definitely should win that one, but this is the Olympics and you never now what happens.

All the reports I read so far about the Brasil-Belgium match make it clear that it was a close match and Belgium played well, they should still make it to the next round.

When do the basketball and field hockey tournaments start?

Edit: Heard about some of the 30C circumstances in sunshine and smog around. I don't think our players are all particularly well suited to that sort of climate, but I dunno we'll see what happens on the 10th.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Trader Joe
08-07-2008, 12:43 PM
USA plays China on the tenth I believe.

rexnom
08-07-2008, 01:08 PM
Meh... W-O-R-K :(. But, I saw the outcome on the net. Commentator on the radio said our team didn't play nearly up to the high expectations of winning the U-21 championships twice and could have definitely lost aswell.

I dunno, it's just one game and well in a tournament almost all teams that go far have one lousy or bad game, I'm hoping that was this one for us. OTOH the African teams are always very physical with the younger ages, so I can't say I'm a little surprised this is a tough opponent, they won it in 1996 in Atlanta I believe.

Playing the U.S. on sunday I think. Definitely will watch that one. Normally we definitely should win that one, but this is the Olympics and you never now what happens.

All the reports I read so far about the Brasil-Belgium match make it clear that it was a close match and Belgium played well, they should still make it to the next round.

When do the basketball and field hockey tournaments start?

Regards,

Mourning :cool:
Why are you guys even watching this stuff? I've never watched Olympic football or U-21 tournaments. They just don't interest me as much as the real stuff.

Mourning
08-07-2008, 01:34 PM
Why are you guys even watching this stuff? I've never watched Olympic football or U-21 tournaments. They just don't interest me as much as the real stuff.

Well I didn't watch it much either until about 6 years ago when we started to finally get a decent group together. Then we won two major tournaments and now present at the Olympics for the first time since 1952 or 1956 I think, succes almost always creates extra interest I guess.

Indy, the U.S. plays The Netherlands on the 10th. Belgium is in the group with China.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

LoneGranger33
08-07-2008, 01:38 PM
Some words of encouragement from Chad Ford:

Meanwhile, China's Jianghua Chen is a local favorite thanks to his AND-1 antics. But most NBA scouts see him as an out-of-control showboater who will never play in the league.

Mourning
08-07-2008, 01:40 PM
Some words of encouragement from Chad Ford:

Meanwhile, China's Jianghua Chen is a local favorite thanks to his AND-1 antics. But most NBA scouts see him as an out-of-control showboater who will never play in the league.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Trader Joe
08-07-2008, 04:08 PM
Well I didn't watch it much either until about 6 years ago when we started to finally get a decent group together. Then we won two major tournaments and now present at the Olympics for the first time since 1952 or 1956 I think, succes almost always creates extra interest I guess.

Indy, the U.S. plays The Netherlands on the 10th. Belgium is in the group with China.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

You asked when basketball play started and I believe it is on the tenth with the US and China.

Mourning
08-07-2008, 04:12 PM
Somebody asked when basketball play started and I belive it is on the tenth with the US and China.

Ah, misunderstanding. In that same post I mentioned the US-Dutch soccer game that's coming up, read what you posted a little bit different ;).

Gyron
08-07-2008, 04:20 PM
So when's the underwater basket weaving start? That's my sport.....

As I understand, the Chinese have bred a man with extra capcity in his lungs and forced him to live underwater for weeks at a time since he was 2 years old to ensure they can take gold in this event.....

Trader Joe
08-07-2008, 04:24 PM
Ah, misunderstanding. In that same post I mentioned the US-Dutch soccer game that's coming up, read what you posted a little bit different ;).

Yeah, I probably should have quoted, but I'm lazy sometimes.

Since86
08-07-2008, 04:46 PM
That's the spirit of the Olympics! International cooperation!

DisplacedKnick
08-08-2008, 11:06 AM
Interesting article by Gregg Doyel on athletes jumping countries.

http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/10922359

FWIW, if you establish citizenship in a country then I'm fine with representing them. But Becky Hammon playing for Russia just because she's on a Russian team?

Heck - why don't we just take Dirk?

rexnom
08-08-2008, 11:13 AM
Interesting article by Gregg Doyel on athletes jumping countries.

http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/10922359

FWIW, if you establish citizenship in a country then I'm fine with representing them. But Becky Hammon playing for Russia just because she's on a Russian team?

Heck - why don't we just take Dirk?
Who was that one athlete that Bush made a citizen like a month before the olympics or so? If a talented athlete wants to play for another country, they can. If Nash or Dirk wanted to play for the U.S., we'd find a way to make it happen.

DisplacedKnick
08-08-2008, 11:25 AM
Who was that one athlete that Bush made a citizen like a month before the olympics or so? If a talented athlete wants to play for another country, they can. If Nash or Dirk wanted to play for the U.S., we'd find a way to make it happen.

So you like anyone being able to play for any country they want?

Since86
08-08-2008, 03:28 PM
U.S. flagbearer Lomong has amazing story of personal triumph
Tim Layden > INSIDE OLYMPICS

BEIJING -- On Friday morning, Lopez Lomong sat before a room full of journalists and was asked to tell his story. Twenty-six minutes later, he stopped. And if this constitutes the longest press conference soliloquy that many in attendance had ever heard, it was also scarcely long enough to embrace Lomong's remarkable young life.

He spoke because this week he was selected to carry the United States flag during the opening ceremonies for the Olympic Games. The honor was bestowed upon Lomong Wednesday night in a vote among the captains of the U.S. Olympic sports teams.

It is a singular honor, far more rare than winning a gold medal and in many ways more meaningful. The criteria are unwritten, but clearly the flagbearer must be representative of things Olympian and American, and Lomong is this beyond description.

The short version: Lomong was one of more than 100 young boys kidnapped by government soldiers from Sunday Catholic mass in his native Sudan at the age of 6. They were taken to a prison where they would be trained as child soldiers. Lomong escaped with three friends and spent 10 years in a Kenyan refugee camp.

He was taken in at age 16 by a family in central New York as part of a program that is known as "The Lost Boys of Sudan." He ran, and ran fast, from a New York State high school championship to Northern Arizona University to a place on the U.S. Olympic team in the 1,500 meters last month in Eugene, Ore., exactly one year after earning U.S. citizenship.

His selection as flagbearer has been widely wrapped in political terms. In the days before Lomong's selection, 2006 speed skating gold medalist Joey Cheek had been denied a Visa to enter China for the Games, an action surely linked to Cheek's support of the humanitarian group Save Darfur (China supports the Sudanese government). The United States Olympic Committee subsequently turned its back on Cheek, calling him a "private citizen."

Hence, it was inescapable that the dots between Lomong, Cheek and China would be connected. Lomong and USOC CEO and board chair Peter Ueberroth were all asked whether the U.S. athletes were making a "statement" in selecting Lomong.

The athlete who spoke on Lomong's behalf says they categorically were not. "Purely coincidental," says three-time Olympian Adam Nelson, a shot putter on the U.S. track team. "People relished Lopez's story. They were affected by his story. They appreciated what he's overcome and accomplished. And his story really is uniquely American, because we're a nation founded on the principles that immigrants can succeed here."

Customarily, the meeting to select the flagbearer is attended by the captains of various sports. The captains of the U.S. track and field team are shot putter Reese Hoffa (men) and discus thrower Aretha Thurmond (women). But at the time of the vote, both were training in Dalian, more than 200 miles and an hour's flight from Beijing. An official from USA Track and Field asked Nelson, a graduate of Dartmouth and the University of Virginia Business School and a respected veteran who was already in Beijing, to give Lomong's nominating speech.

(It should also be noted that Lomong was not shy about pushing his own candidacy, which in some Olympic circles is considered bad form. "I'm going to mount a little campaign," he told TheAssociated Press in Dalian before the vote. This didn't bother track team members, who selected Lomong to represent their sport in the larger competition).

Nelson, who doesn't know Lomong well but knows his story, distributed a biography of Lomong to other captains, roughly 20 athletes in all, with others included by teleconference. Then Nelson gave a short speech, which might not have been necessary. "There were a few other sports captains in the room who were ready to nominate Lopez if the track team didn't," says Nelson. "They already knew about him."

But as far as responding to China. Or to the USOC? "I didn't hear a word about that in the room," says Nelson. "Maybe somebody was in a corner talking about that and I couldn't hear them. But I really think people voted for Lopez because they appreciated his story."

That is reason enough. It is a remarkable tale that has been told in chilling detail in many media. Lomong does not tire of retelling it. During a press gathering at the Olympic Trials in Eugene, writers listened to Lomong from a formal podium, gathered around him in a breakout session and then followed him into a hotel hallway, transfixed and rightly so.

On Friday morning, he told of weeping as he was driven blindfolded in a truck on the morning of his abduction. Of watching other young boys die after eating sorghum and grain spiked with sand. "It was just part of life," he said. "You say, 'It's his day today. Tomorrow will probably be my day.'"

He described his escape though a narrow gap in the prison fence and eating one meal a day in Kenya, late at night, and playing soccer to forget about his hunger. He spoke of small wonders: Eating his first American meal at -- of course -- McDonald's and learning that the shower handle is best placed "in the middle," between hot and cold. Of returning to Sudan and reuniting with his family, seeing the grave where they buried his belongings to symbolize his presumed death.

At the end of his story, he was asked about Cheek. "He is supposed to be here," Lomong said. "He is an Olympian. He is supposed to tell people about the situation that happened there."

Asked to comment on China's support of the Sudanese government and its larger human rights actions, Lomong backed off uncomfortably. "I'm here to represent my country," he said. "I'm here to inspire the kids who are out there watching."

There is no need for Lomong to speak out loudly. The larger significance of his work in carrying the U.S. flag, however coincidental (as Nelson points out), is self-evident: He is a Sudanese refugee performing in China, with status granted to few. His personal triumph, unlikely survival followed by great success, is every bit as large.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/olympics/2008/writers/tim_layden/08/08/lopez.lomong/index.html?eref=T1

I feel very proud to have him carry our flag.

DisplacedKnick
08-08-2008, 05:46 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/olympics/2008/writers/tim_layden/08/08/lopez.lomong/index.html?eref=T1

I feel very proud to have him carry our flag.

I'm fine with that too - he's a US citizen.

JayRedd
08-08-2008, 05:48 PM
If I were a world-class athlete, I would play for Kamchatka.

rexnom
08-08-2008, 06:14 PM
So you like anyone being able to play for any country they want?
Oh, I see what you're saying now. Yeah, Becky Hammon, who is not even a Russian citizen, should not be playing for the Russian team. Ok. Yeah, I agree with that.

avoidingtheclowns
08-08-2008, 09:37 PM
AK-47's threads are mesmerizing

http://f3.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__10/ept_sports_nba_experts-585557548-1218213160.jpg?ympkg0_CEui0EGvD

DisplacedKnick
08-08-2008, 11:39 PM
Oh, I see what you're saying now. Yeah, Becky Hammon, who is not even a Russian citizen, should not be playing for the Russian team. Ok. Yeah, I agree with that.

That's the one that bugs me. Kaman does a little but if that's German law - that having a German grandparent makes you German, then OK. Of course I guess I'm legally German myself then.

Hammon seems a bit extreme.

Pig Nash
08-09-2008, 12:10 AM
Saras was Lithuania's flagbearer.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20080808/i/r97871439.jpg?x=255&y=345&sig=_QAMuEyovAMjOVfAjna_YQ--

JayRedd
08-09-2008, 12:11 AM
Those Opening Ceremonies were unreal.

For those that missed it:

http://nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/08/08/sports/0808-CEREMONY_index.html

JayRedd
08-09-2008, 12:12 AM
Saras was Lithuania's flagbearer.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20080808/i/r97871439.jpg?x=255&y=345&sig=_QAMuEyovAMjOVfAjna_YQ--

Sick jams.

Hicks
08-09-2008, 01:07 AM
The opening ceremony up to the countries walking in was amazing. As was the ending with the torch lighting. Well done, China!

Chewy
08-09-2008, 06:53 AM
The opening ceremony up to the countries walking in was amazing. As was the ending with the torch lighting. Well done, China!

The most mpressive opening ceremony and firework display, noone will top the torch lighting of Barcelona olympics tho :)

DisplacedKnick
08-09-2008, 08:11 AM
This puts a damper on things:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/olympics/2008/08/09/tourist.killed.ap/index.html?cnn=yes


BEIJING (AP) -- A knife-wielding Chinese man attacked two relatives of a coach for the U.S. Olympic men's volleyball team at a tourist site in Beijing, killing one and injuring the other on the first day of the Olympics on Saturday, team officials and state media said.

It isn't Munich but it's not good.

rexnom
08-09-2008, 01:08 PM
I can't believe this wasn't broadcast live. I really dislike NBC.

Mourning
08-09-2008, 06:28 PM
This puts a damper on things:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/olympics/2008/08/09/tourist.killed.ap/index.html?cnn=yes



It isn't Munich but it's not good.

This sort of thing is very, very rare is what I understood.

LoneGranger33
08-09-2008, 08:18 PM
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHEN/HOW TO WATCH THESE GAMES ONLINE?!

Trader Joe
08-09-2008, 10:41 PM
The opening ceremony up to the countries walking in was amazing. As was the ending with the torch lighting. Well done, China!

They were amazing, but I can't help but feel that China really doesn't deserve these Olympics with the atrocities they commit towards humanity still.

I promise that will be my only political statement of these olympics. :)

I plan on thoroughly enjoying this event and watching the United States of America kick some butt.

EDIT: Six medals already for the red, white and blue. Three for China. I am very interested in seeing how close they come to us.

Trader Joe
08-09-2008, 10:46 PM
Also does anyone know what time tomorrow they are rebroadcasting the men's basketball game tomorrow afternoon? Also, I now have like four or five different HD olympic channels. Kudos NBC. That's pretty freakin' cool.

avoidingtheclowns
08-09-2008, 10:48 PM
TV & Online listings
http://www.nbcolympics.com/tv_and_online_listings/index.html

Stryder
08-09-2008, 11:52 PM
Also does anyone know what time tomorrow they are rebroadcasting the men's basketball game tomorrow afternoon? Also, I now have like four or five different HD olympic channels. Kudos NBC. That's pretty freakin' cool.

USA vs. China men's basketball is live tomorrow at 10:00 am.

LoneGranger33
08-10-2008, 12:44 AM
**** NBC!

Mourning
08-10-2008, 06:52 AM
EDIT: Six medals already for the red, white and blue. Three for China. I am very interested in seeing how close they come to us.


Six? :huh: The red, white and blue have two at the moment ... :-p







;)

Mourning
08-10-2008, 09:32 AM
Holy F*** the worst match I think I have EVER seen from this team!!! Totally UNINSPIRED! I hope they gèt MURDERED in the press, because they totally deserve it!

Trader Joe
08-10-2008, 02:06 PM
I can't believe USA let that slip through their fingers. Need to play an amazing match tomorrow against Nigeria and without Freddy, odds are against us.

Medals now 8 to 8 between USA and China.

Mourning
08-10-2008, 03:04 PM
I can't believe USA let that slip through their fingers.

Neither can I, but thank you anyway ;) :D.

Trader Joe
08-10-2008, 03:12 PM
Neither can I, but thank you anyway ;) :D.

:box:;)

Raskolnikov
08-10-2008, 04:54 PM
2-0 victory against China. Didn't play that well, but we deserved the win in the end. With Brazil beating New-Zealand 5-0, the next round is close :)

Trader Joe
08-10-2008, 08:38 PM
Women's Olympic gymnastics team is on right now for all you creepers out there.

Also what the heck is up with our gymnastics team always having one or two people injured at the Olympics?

Trader Joe
08-10-2008, 09:56 PM
Bela Karolyi might be my new favorite person ever.

LoneGranger33
08-10-2008, 10:51 PM
Women's Olympic gymnastics team is on right now for all you creepers out there.

Also what the heck is up with our gymnastics team always having one or two people injured at the Olympics?

Tayna Harding's boyfriend has become a permanent fixture of the Olympic games.

ajbry
08-10-2008, 10:53 PM
Women's Olympic gymnastics team is on right now for all you creepers out there.

:laugh:

How old are these girls anyway? Shawn Johnson (just looked it up because I didn't know her last name) doesn't look a day over 14.

Trader Joe
08-10-2008, 11:13 PM
She's 16...unfortunately.

Trader Joe
08-10-2008, 11:23 PM
How did Katie Hoff just blow that?

Trader Joe
08-10-2008, 11:31 PM
Take that you French ********!

JayRedd
08-10-2008, 11:32 PM
How did Katie Hoff just blow that?

She musta gotten some pointers from Laure Manaudou.

Meanwhile...Nice try Frenchies.

Trader Joe
08-10-2008, 11:33 PM
That was ****ing awesome to watch. AMERICA!

Direct quote from an American Olympian..

"We heard the frenchies were talking stuff..."
Hilarous.

Stryder
08-10-2008, 11:46 PM
Probably the best moment that you will see in the Olympics this time around.

That'll teach those Frenchies to ever spout off again...

GO USA! That was amazing.

Stryder
08-10-2008, 11:46 PM
:laugh:

How old are these girls anyway? Shawn Johnson (just looked it up because I didn't know her last name) doesn't look a day over 14.

Try China's team...most of them look to be about 10 - 13.

Will Galen
08-11-2008, 12:06 AM
France did deliver, they smashed the world record by 4 seconds. To bad they mouthed off.

Italy and Sweden also broke the world record and didn't even medal. That was a great, great, race with an unbelievable finish.

avoidingtheclowns
08-11-2008, 12:11 AM
how you like them apples you cheese eating surrender monkeys?

SycamoreKen
08-11-2008, 12:24 AM
That was a great race. My wife and I actually cheered at the end scaring the dog and the cat. A truely great moment.

Hicks
08-11-2008, 12:54 AM
Sorry I missed it. Is there a good place to go for quick highlights?

Will Galen
08-11-2008, 01:42 AM
Sorry I missed it. Is there a good place to go for quick highlights?

http://www.nbcolympics.com/

DisplacedKnick
08-11-2008, 06:55 AM
That WAS fun - I'd never have stayed up to watch it if France hadn't been talking crap.

Those guys are classier than I'd have been - if I was on the team I'd have HAD to lean over to the guy who ran the last leg (think he was the guy quoted) and said, "Nice job - that race was smashing."

Robertmto
08-11-2008, 07:19 AM
Handball is so ****in awesome

efx
08-11-2008, 07:34 AM
I can understand trashtalking, that's part of the game but some of this is just childish. Some of you act like the French team kicked your dog or something.

Amazing race though, very entertaining.

Putnam
08-11-2008, 08:05 AM
http://www.nbcolympics.com/gymnastics/news/newsid=194782.html#bridget+sloan+gets+unexpected+s tarring+role

Bridget Sloan gets unexpected starring role


Posted Monday, August 11, 2008 1:59 AM ET
http://www.nbcolympics.com/mm/photo/sports/general/19/11/49/191149_m11.jpg Jake Michaels for NBCOlympics.com
Bridget Sloan warms up for uneven bars in the preliminary round of competition.


BEIJING (AP) - In a matter of minutes, with the pop of a teammate's ankle, Bridget Sloan (http://www.nbcolympics.com/athletes/athlete=624/bio/index.html) became a key to U.S. gymnastics fortunes at the Beijing Olympics.

Sloan handled her newfound responsibilities well in the women's qualification round, when the Americans were down to four healthy bodies on a team of six. With four scores counting toward the team's overall marks, her performance was critical.

Even though she was an alternate to the U.S. team that won the 2007 world championship, and even though she won two medals at a test event in Beijing last year, Sloan's selection to the Olympic squad was anything but a given. The 16-year-old from Indianapolis earned the final spot with a terrific showing at the selection camp in July after a knee injury limited her to only a few events at nationals and the Olympic trials.

Still, she clearly was No. 6 on a squad that included world champions.
Then one of those champs, 2005 gold medalist Chellsie Memmel, injured her ankle just before the games and was reduced to participating only on uneven bars. And moments before the U.S. women entered the arena Sunday, Samantha Peszek hurt her ankle in her final tumbling pass during warm-ups, restricting her to uneven bars.

Suddenly, Sloan was squarely in the spotlight.

Unclebuck
08-11-2008, 08:43 AM
That was as exciting as anything I have ever seen in sports. No other way to describe it.

Why more of you don't watch the the Olympics is beyond me - and swimming is my favorite.

The swimming events are live starting at 10:00 our time every night

efx
08-11-2008, 08:57 AM
I also like swimming a lot. It can get so incredibly close sometimes it takes a second to realize who won or lost but it's part of my favorite events in the summer olympics.

It's a rush.

Trader Joe
08-11-2008, 09:05 AM
Yep, swimming probably has the most excitement. I doubt we see last night topped the rest of the Olympics, though.

Unclebuck
08-11-2008, 09:10 AM
Yep, swimming probably has the most excitement. I doubt we see last night topped the rest of the Olympics, though.

Yeah, that will be the most exciting moment. But there should be a lot of drama as Phelps goes for 8 gold medals.

avoidingtheclowns
08-11-2008, 09:45 AM
Handball is so ****in awesome

damn right

Will Galen
08-11-2008, 09:48 AM
That was as exciting as anything I have ever seen in sports. No other way to describe it.

I very much agree! You really have to see the whole race and know the setup to really appreciate it.

idioteque
08-11-2008, 09:51 AM
I can understand trashtalking, that's part of the game but some of this is just childish. Some of you act like the French team kicked your dog or something.


Michael Phelps has been the most revered athlete in the Olympics in the American media by far, he is getting far more attention in the press from what I've seen than even the basketball team, which has its own compelling story behind it for these Games. That's probably why you're seeing such a strong reaction. And I can understand that. Plus some Americans just don't like the Frenchies that much.

And I'm glad to see a Hoosier Olympian getting a lot of attention.

Putnam
08-11-2008, 09:57 AM
?


The swimming victory in the 400 relay has a few things going for it, certainly.

It was a close race.
The US won, coming from behind.
Not one but 5 teams beat the previous record.
They "smashed" the boastful French.
Michael Phelps got a gold out of it.


It was the best thing that happened yesterday. But I don't see that it supercedes all previous athletic achievement.

Gyron
08-11-2008, 10:01 AM
I just watched the race online. That was an amazing race. One for the ages.

travmil
08-11-2008, 10:03 AM
I can understand trashtalking, that's part of the game but some of this is just childish. Some of you act like the French team kicked your dog or something.

Amazing race though, very entertaining.

You're darned right they kicked my dog. It's 60 years worth of payback for an ungrateful and arrogant bunch of snobs who wouldn't even have a country if the USA hadn't have saved their sorry whiny surrendering asses in WW2. For their athletes to not even have the respect and class to not talk **** to a world class team with the best swimmer in the world on it is outrageous. What happened last night is one of the most satisfying moments I've ever felt in sports. The way the US team reacted afterwards made it even better. They showed the French team the way you are supposed to act when they would have had every right to rub it in their faces. Getting to watch the French eat their words will be the best moment of these Olympics for Americans. Ungrateful SOB's...

[/rant]

Twes
08-11-2008, 10:15 AM
I can understand trashtalking, that's part of the game but some of this is just childish. Some of you act like the French team kicked your dog or something.

Amazing race though, very entertaining.


They started it.

:D

efx
08-11-2008, 10:20 AM
You're darned right they kicked my dog. It's 60 years worth of payback for an ungrateful and arrogant bunch of snobs who wouldn't even have a country if the USA hadn't have saved their sorry whiny surrendering asses in WW2. For their athletes to not even have the respect and class to not talk **** to a world class team with the best swimmer in the world on it is outrageous. What happened last night is one of the most satisfying moments I've ever felt in sports. The way the US team reacted afterwards made it even better. They showed the French team the way you are supposed to act when they would have had every right to rub it in their faces. Getting to watch the French eat their words will be the best moment of these Olympics for Americans. Ungrateful SOB's...

[/rant]

Pot + Kettle though I thank you for proving my point.

Gyron
08-11-2008, 10:29 AM
Ehh, we're american and we're cocky, but at least we didn't go running our mouth and then lose the race.....It was only fitting the frenchman that ran his mouth was the one who got beat in the final leg.

efx
08-11-2008, 10:31 AM
It was only fitting the frenchman that ran his mouth was the one who got beat in the final leg.

You'll see no argument from me there.

travmil
08-11-2008, 10:44 AM
Pot + Kettle though I thank you for proving my point.

And what exactly was your point? That Americans (meaning us) don't have a right to be proud of a team that stuck it to the trash talking French? If that's the point, you happen to be wrong. We have every right to be proud of them. Sorry if that pride offends you.

efx
08-11-2008, 10:47 AM
And what exactly was your point? That Americans (meaning us) don't have a right to be proud of a team that stuck it to the trash talking French? If that's the point, you happen to be wrong. We have every right to be proud of them. Sorry if that pride offends you.

You should be proud, immensely so and I've never said otherwise.

But even you point out in your post the class that the US team showed in winning and yet you fail to show the same class yourself.

It's not offensive but it's strange.

avoidingtheclowns
08-11-2008, 10:48 AM
i just really enjoy the phrase "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" and it felt like an appropriate time to share.

Raskolnikov
08-11-2008, 10:53 AM
Did the French talk that much trash? All I can find is one of them (Bernard, the last swimmer; he kind of choked, although the last US swimmer did apparently swim the fastest 100m ever - doesn't count for a WR though) predicting that they would smash the US. So it appears, he had indeed way too much confidence, but some of you are really overreacting.

Anyway, great race, great comeback. Seeing the WR line fall behind by so much was really amazing.

DisplacedKnick
08-11-2008, 10:58 AM
You should be proud, immensely so and I've never said otherwise.

But even you point out in your post the class that the US team showed in winning and yet you fail to show the same class yourself.

It's not offensive but it's strange.

Not really - we're not in the spotlight so we can say all the things our Olympians can't.

Most of us have bit our tongues in one situation or another when it had to do with our jobs.

I'm gonna take a look at some French newspapers to see what they say. Fortunately, with the help of my pocket translator I know enough French to generally figure out what they say.

Gyron
08-11-2008, 11:10 AM
ATC, you should get credit for that phrase. That was actually brilliant.

efx
08-11-2008, 11:14 AM
I believe it's originally a Homer Simpson line.

Gyron
08-11-2008, 11:19 AM
Even better.....

avoidingtheclowns
08-11-2008, 11:29 AM
ATC, you should get credit for that phrase. That was actually brilliant.


I believe it's originally a Homer Simpson line.

it was groundskeeper willie but you can give me credit anyway

DisplacedKnick
08-11-2008, 11:37 AM
Le Monde has a nice article - the second half gives Bernard some grief for his quote, particularly regarding how it reflects on France's image (I think):

http://www.lemonde.fr/jeux-olympiques-tout-le-sport/article/2008/08/11/les-relayeurs-francais-perdent-d-un-rien-le-duel-des-gros-bras_1082287_1074125.html#ens_id=1081826

Trader Joe
08-11-2008, 11:49 AM
It's the Olympics if you can't have a little national pride now, then when can you? Plus I just don't really like the Frenchies.

efx
08-11-2008, 12:10 PM
I don't believe anyone said you can't have national pride but being downright derogatory is silly.

Putnam
08-11-2008, 12:25 PM
Here is the line that deserves to be remembered from this:

"J'étais fatigué de perdre."

"I was tired of losing."


EDIT: Excuse me. Quoting that in French seems affected. But Jason Lesak's words struck me more strongly when quoted by the people he wouldn't lose to.

Will Galen
08-11-2008, 12:32 PM
Ehh, we're american and we're cocky, but at least we didn't go running our mouth and then lose the race.....

Not this time, but how about 2000?

2000: A little air guitar
In Australia, swimmers are like rock stars. So even though the U.S. men had never lost a 4x100 freestyle relay, the Aussies believed they had a chance to win in their home pool at Sydney. Before the race, U.S. anchor Gary Hall had predicted the Americans would smash the Aussies "like guitars."


The Aussies entered the final leg leading by a few hundredths of a second. Hall quickly caught Ian Thorpe, known more as a 200- and 400-meter guy than a sprinter. The two raced stroke-for-stroke the final 50 meters, with Thorpe edging out Hall at the touch. Australia's Michael Klim broke out his air guitar in celebration.



It was only fitting the frenchman that ran his mouth was the one who got beat in the final leg.

I agree with that, I always like to see the person running their mouth have to eat their words so to speak, but there's a good reason for the saying Ugly American. People from this country are worse at running their mouth than any other country.

Gyron
08-11-2008, 12:34 PM
I don't disagree Will. I was only speaking of this instance, for once, we kept our mouth shut and let the swimming do the talking....

Mourning
08-11-2008, 12:57 PM
Ehh, we're american and we're cocky, but at least we didn't go running our mouth and then lose the race.....It was only fitting the frenchman that ran his mouth was the one who got beat in the final leg.

Ehhh... US Basketball team in 2004 and 2006?

DisplacedKnick
08-11-2008, 01:01 PM
Ehhh... US Basketball team in 2004 and 2006?

Don't remember '06 but in '04 with Iverson and Marbury on the team - recipe for international conflict.

I know after '04 I was ready for us to go back to college players. Yeah, we'd never get a medal, probably not even make the medal rd but I preferred that to a team that reflected that horribly on our country.

DisplacedKnick
08-11-2008, 01:03 PM
Not this time, but how about 2000?

2000: A little air guitar
In Australia, swimmers are like rock stars. So even though the U.S. men had never lost a 4x100 freestyle relay, the Aussies believed they had a chance to win in their home pool at Sydney. Before the race, U.S. anchor Gary Hall had predicted the Americans would smash the Aussies "like guitars."


Hall was always a bit different. Dunno if you caught this year's Olympic Trials but Hall showed up at the pool for the 50 wearing a cape that said, "The Godfather of Swimming."

He was retired shortly thereafter.

Putnam
08-11-2008, 01:14 PM
I don't mean to argue with Will Galen here, but only to make a point about the book.



. . . there's a good reason for the saying Ugly American.


In the book from which this term comes, the "Ugly American" was an engineer who was kind and effective. He was ugly only because he didn't act like the other diplomats and foreign service people.

When we use the term to signify misbehaving or arrogant Americans, we are using it opposite to the intention of the authors who who coined it.

Twes
08-11-2008, 02:23 PM
I don't mean this as a political comment.

But how cool is it that President Bush is kicking it at the Olympics.

I was a little worried for him when he was looking at his watch at the opening ceremonies (potential international incident), but I think it's pretty cool he's hanging out.

The secret service has got to be frazzled.

:cool:

ChicagoJ
08-11-2008, 02:39 PM
Is this already in here somewhere - what the hell has happened to Bob Costas?

Unclebuck
08-11-2008, 02:48 PM
Is this already in here somewhere - what the hell has happened to Bob Costas?

what do you mean

ChicagoJ
08-11-2008, 03:25 PM
Have you looked at him?

Hair. Eyes. Everything.

Trader Joe
08-11-2008, 03:50 PM
I don't believe anyone said you can't have national pride but being downright derogatory is silly.

I think you need thicker skin if you think anything said in here is truely derogatory.

efx
08-11-2008, 04:08 PM
I think you need thicker skin if you think anything said in here is truely derogatory.

I'm pretty sure the reaction would have been similar had the roles been reversed.

Anyways, I'm off to watch some more. Enjoy the games!

Doddage
08-11-2008, 04:16 PM
Yeah, that will be the most exciting moment. But there should be a lot of drama as Phelps goes for 8 gold medals.
Shouldn't it be about the United States going for all the gold medals as opposed to Phelps? That's one thing that has been annoying me. Let's cheer for the United States first, and then if Phelps so happens to take home all the gold medals, talk about that afterwards. Especially that competition last night where it wasn't just Phelps who won... the entire US squad did. The Olympics isn't about cheering for an individual accomplishment.

Unclebuck
08-11-2008, 04:27 PM
Shouldn't it be about the United States going for all the gold medals as opposed to Phelps? That's one thing that has been annoying me. Let's cheer for the United States first, and then if Phelps so happens to take home all the gold medals, talk about that afterwards. Especially that competition last night where it wasn't just Phelps who won... the entire US squad did. The Olympics isn't about cheering for an individual accomplishment.

Ok, I don't disagree with you, but Phelps is the biggest story of these games and will likely go down as one of the biggest story of any games in the last 50 years.

Besides, I think NBC did a good job, I mean they interviewed all 4 swimmers.

JayRedd
08-11-2008, 04:28 PM
I don't mean this as a political comment.

But how cool is it that President Bush is kicking it at the Olympics.

I was a little worried for him when he was looking at his watch at the opening ceremonies (potential international incident), but I think it's pretty cool he's hanging out.

The secret service has got to be frazzled.

:cool:

Him being there is more symbolic than it is about him kicking it.

Either way...it is pretty cool. I found it hard to believe that he's the first US president to attend a non-domestic Olympics.

Trader Joe
08-11-2008, 08:44 PM
I'm pretty sure the reaction would have been similar had the roles been reversed.

Anyways, I'm off to watch some more. Enjoy the games!

But they weren't. ;)

ajbry
08-11-2008, 10:20 PM
Phelps is insanely good.

JayRedd
08-11-2008, 10:25 PM
It's a ****ing joke. He looked like Secretariat on that one.

Trader Joe
08-11-2008, 10:26 PM
Phelps might be the best athlete ever in any sport. It's time to consider this as a possiblility. That wasn't even fair.

JayRedd
08-11-2008, 10:27 PM
You wouldn't say that if you'd seen me play beer die. It's looking good for inclusion in 2016.

ajbry
08-11-2008, 10:28 PM
If he wins the remaining 5 events, it'll be impossible to deny calling him the most dominant individual athlete ever.

Trader Joe
08-11-2008, 10:30 PM
I REALLY, REALLY hope Chicago gets the games in 2016. I would love to be a drunken American for a month, and not be called an idiot for it.

ajbry
08-11-2008, 10:32 PM
We're starting to take control of the Olympics right now. Our swimmers are amazing.

JayRedd
08-11-2008, 10:33 PM
If he wins the remaining 5 events, it'll be impossible to deny calling him the most dominant individual athlete ever.

Sugar Ray Robinson thinks you're nuts. So does Muhammad Ali.

Trader Joe
08-11-2008, 10:34 PM
The rest of the world should stop building pools.

Trader Joe
08-11-2008, 10:38 PM
Sugar Ray Robinson thinks you're nuts. So does Muhammad Ali.

Phelps has to be in the conversation though. He'll break the total medal record in his next final, and if he wins eight golds he has a tremendous case. Plus he could still compete and win another four or five golds in 2012.

JayRedd
08-11-2008, 10:40 PM
Cool. He can stop by the conversation.

But call me when he's 128-1.

Trader Joe
08-11-2008, 10:42 PM
Two different sports.

JayRedd
08-11-2008, 10:46 PM
Dominant means dominant though regardless of sport.

The only guy to ever beat Sugar Ray in his career was Jake LaMotta. After that loss, he won his next 91 fights and, when it was all said and done, Sugar Ray finished his career 5-1 against LaMotta.

We can go back to Olympic talk now though. I just get irked when people try to magnify the current greatness of things due to recency.

Let's just call Phelps the best swimmer ever and be done with it. Possibly the best Olympian. (Though I'm guessing plenty of others would argue.)

Trader Joe
08-11-2008, 10:49 PM
I don't disagree. I'm just saying that it could be argued that eight golds in swimming in one Olympics is as impressive. Ian Thorpe who was just on the tube has five golds in his career and is considered one of the greatest swimmers ever.
I don't disagree that Sugar Ray was dominant as they come. If we're really talking dominant athletes then we might as well bring Jim Thorpe into the conversation.

ajbry
08-11-2008, 10:51 PM
If we're really talking dominant athletes then we might as well bring Jim Thorpe into the conversation.

You read my mind, I was just looking at his Wikipedia to find some stats.

Trader Joe
08-11-2008, 10:54 PM
I'm glad we've taken back the overall medal lead now.

JayRedd
08-11-2008, 10:54 PM
I think Carl Lewis and Jackie Joyner-Kersee are usually right at the top of everyone's list. A couple of really old dudes too. But I think Carl usually gets the edge due to his gold in Star-Spangled Banner singing.

ajbry
08-11-2008, 10:55 PM
So when's the next big important event? I don't feel like sitting through diving again...

Trader Joe
08-11-2008, 10:56 PM
What about Kobayashi?

Trader Joe
08-11-2008, 10:56 PM
So when's the next big important event? I don't feel like sitting through diving again...

How do you feel about Men's gymnastics?

Trader Joe
08-11-2008, 10:57 PM
Holy crap China is choking hardcore.

ajbry
08-11-2008, 11:04 PM
How do you feel about Men's gymnastics?

Gymnasts in general are pretty incredible and at least they're wearing clothes, so it's definitely a marked improvement over diving.

Trader Joe
08-11-2008, 11:06 PM
Ok, China is back to being China on the rings. These performances are nuts. The stuff that last guy did was inhuman.

ajbry
08-11-2008, 11:07 PM
I don't even understand how it's physically possible to move like that.

Trader Joe
08-11-2008, 11:12 PM
Phelps barely trying in the semis and he's still gonna win the heat easily.

ajbry
08-11-2008, 11:12 PM
Holy *****.

ajbry
08-11-2008, 11:18 PM
Our gymnasts seem like complete tools but if they can manage a silver, it's all good.

Trader Joe
08-11-2008, 11:22 PM
First for the USA Men's Gymnastic team after three events. Three more to go. THis would be a massive upset.

ajbry
08-11-2008, 11:27 PM
Damn, that Horton dude just killed it.

ilive4sports
08-11-2008, 11:29 PM
That was insane. If we get gold here, major upset

Trader Joe
08-11-2008, 11:31 PM
This team is pulling out all the stops. Incredible.

ajbry
08-11-2008, 11:33 PM
We're the best at literally everything. We should annex the entire world.

Trader Joe
08-11-2008, 11:34 PM
Is this happening right now? I love the Go Big or Go Home attitude of this Gymnastics team. It might bite them in the ***, but they are laying everything on the line and you gotta respect that.

Also the USA chants, chilling. Seriously.

Trader Joe
08-12-2008, 12:34 AM
Looks like we'll have to settle for bronze. If we had the Pork Bros. we definetely would have gotten silver, and would have pushed for the gold. Oh well.

ChicagoJ
08-12-2008, 12:06 PM
I think Carl Lewis and Jackie Joyner-Kersee are usually right at the top of everyone's list. A couple of really old dudes too. But I think Carl usually gets the edge due to his gold in Star-Spangled Banner singing.

That's right. Carl was in another world.

Its not Carl Lewis's fault that track and field doesn't also have a 50m Dash, 150m dash, 300m dash and 4x200 relay. He would easily have eight golds in '84 if there were as many different events in track and field as there are in swimming, and 4x200 golds in 1988 and 1992.

He might have been in position to take gold in several events in Moscow in 1980 had we not boycotted. Certainly long jump and the 4x100. Not sure he was dominating the 100m dash, but one thing about Carl was that he always performed his best at the Olympics and Worlds... he knew when to peak.

Michael Phelps is rivaling Mark Spitz as the greatest swimmer ever, certainly. But that's it. The rest of the hype machine is getting carried away.

EDIT - I just double-checked, Carl's breakthrough year to be ranked #1 in the world was 1981, not 1980. He probably would have earned some medals in 1980 but not the way he performed in Los Angeles.

Since86
08-12-2008, 12:32 PM
That's right. Carl was in another world.

Its not Carl Lewis's fault that track and field doesn't also have a 50m Dash, 150m dash, 300m dash and 4x200 relay. He would easily have eight golds in '84 if there were as many different events in track and field as there are in swimming, and 4x200 golds in 1988 and 1992.

He might have been in position to take gold in several events in Moscow in 1980 had we not boycotted. Certainly long jump and the 4x100. Not sure he was dominating the 100m dash, but one thing about Carl was that he always performed his best at the Olympics and Worlds... he knew when to peak.

Michael Phelps is rivaling Mark Spitz as the greatest swimmer ever, certainly. But that's it. The rest of the hype machine is getting carried away.

EDIT - I just double-checked, Carl's breakthrough year to be ranked #1 in the world was 1981, not 1980. He probably would have earned some medals in 1980 but not the way he performed in Los Angeles.


Hype machine? Dude won 6 golds in his first ever Olympics. The total gold metals for any athele is 9. If Phelps ties his six from 4 yrs ago, which looks like a lock, he would have 12.

12 golds in two olympics, and you're calling it a hype machine? He's rivaling Spitz now, and he's only 1/4th of his way through his finals. He's got six more to go to break Spitz's mark. If he were to win 8 golds in one olympics, he will be known as the greatest olympic athelte ever.

Just like it's not Carl's fault for not having ran more races, or sitting out of the '80s olympics, it's not Phelps' fault either. You work with what you're given, and there's nothing you can do about it.

Obviously Carl didn't dominate the way Phelps' is. In '84 he won 4 golds, VERY impressive. In '88 he won 2 golds and a silver, again VERY impressive.

But how can you say it's more dominate than an athlete that wins 6 out of 8 in Athens, then wins 8 out of 8 in Beijing? 14 golds out of 16 possibilities is out of this world impressive.

I'm not taking anything away from Carl, he is a legend no qualms about it. But come on, you're talking about completely being head a shoulders above everyone else in everything you do. That's Phelps.

EDIT: And to put it into perspective, Carl failed drug three druge tests for banned substances before the '88 games. The USOC overturned his ban, which lasted six months, saying they believed his claim of inadvertant use.

I'm not making a judgement on whether or not he took them knowingly or not, just presenting all the facts.

Unclebuck
08-12-2008, 01:24 PM
Carl Lewis was OK, but I enjoyed watching Michael Johnson more. Something about the way he ran was just fun to watch.

Something about just watching Phelps swim is exciting - probably because you know you are watching greatness

JayRedd
08-12-2008, 02:38 PM
What about Dan O'Brien?

Mourning
08-12-2008, 03:34 PM
Country - tot - gold - silver - bronze

United States - 22 - 7 - 7 - 8
China - 20 - 13 - 3 - 4
South Korea - 12 - 5 - 6 - 1
Australia - 10 - 3 - 2 - 5
Italy - 9 - 3 - 4 - 2
Russia - 9 - 2 - 4 - 3
France - 9 - 0 - 7 - 2
North Korea - 7 - 1 - 2 - 4
Germany - 6 - 4 - 1 - 1
Japan - 6 - 3 - 1 - 2
Great Britain - 6 - 2 - 1 - 3
Netherlands - 4 - 1 - 1 - 2
Azerbaijan - 3 - 1 - 2 - 0
Brazil - 3 - 0 - 0 - 3

JayRedd
08-12-2008, 04:00 PM
O, Canada

Mourning
08-12-2008, 04:15 PM
Well they atleast aren't complaining or being crybabies about it, neither are they claiming to be the best in the world, unlike some from a country placed to it's southern border like to do from time to time...

Go Canada!!!

JayRedd
08-12-2008, 04:16 PM
Agreed.

Look who's eating crow now, Mexicans.

Mourning
08-12-2008, 04:20 PM
Agreed.

Look who's eating crow now, Mexicans.

Nice try... I was carefull with my formulation though... :D


Well they atleast aren't complaining or being crybabies about it, neither are they claiming to be the best in the world, unlike some from a country placed to it's southern border like to do from time to time...

Go Canada!!!

:-p

Since86
08-12-2008, 04:20 PM
Well they atleast aren't complaining or being crybabies about it, neither are they claiming to be the best in the world, unlike some from a country placed to it's southern border like to do from time to time...

Go Canada!!!

I didn't know France was located south of Canada's border.:confused:

Mourning
08-12-2008, 04:23 PM
I didn't know France was located south of Canada's border.:confused:

It isn't! :uhoh: :shudder: ... I must mean ANOTHER country!!! :peek: It's similar to France in a lot of ways though! :lol:

ChicagoJ
08-12-2008, 04:27 PM
Carl's '91 WC's were even better than his Olympic Games, but good gracious, winning the LJ gold medal four times is absolutelly-freaking-Olympic-huge.

I'm just saying, too much is being made out of the sheer number of medals that Phelps is winning. Its the nature of swimming competition. Phelps may ultimately be named "Olympian of the 21st Century", but I don't believe he is accomplishing near as much as Carl did.

Seven/ eight whatever in swimming is about the same is about the same as Carl's domination (and Jesse Owen's) with four medals in 1984.

How many basketball games did the '92 Dream Team dominate? Every single one of them. Resulted in single medal for each of them. Is Phelps dominating as much as Magic/ Charles/ Larry/ Michael dominated? Maybe. Maybe not.

My point is this, you can't compare the medal count without the proper context.

When Carl was trying to match what Jesse Owen accomplished on the track, that was the only comparison. Mark Spitz's great swim in '72 with seven golds (and seven world records) was not considered as impressive as Jesse Owens' accomplishments (comes in #10 according to SI.)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0807/all.time.greatest.summer.olympians/content.1.html

Tell me this, because I don't know and I'm willing to reconsider... is Phelps supposed to break a world record in every one of his events? If he gets one more medal than Spitz, but with fewer WRs, is that as impressive?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0807/all.time.greatest.summer.olympians/content.10.html

Since86
08-12-2008, 04:27 PM
It isn't! :uhoh: :shudder: ... I must mean ANOTHER country!!! :peek: It's similar to France in a lot of ways though! :lol:

I've killed for less offensive remarks.:devil:

avoidingtheclowns
08-12-2008, 04:28 PM
It isn't! :uhoh: :shudder: ... I must mean ANOTHER country!!! :peek: It's similar to France in a lot of ways though! :lol:

wait... how the hell can canada be to the south of its own border?

Mourning
08-12-2008, 04:34 PM
I've killed for less offensive remarks.:devil:

I didn't know they let people clean up parks for murder in the states? :wtf:

Maybe the punishment was having VT as your supervisor though? ;)

Mourning
08-12-2008, 04:36 PM
wait... how the hell can canada be to the south of its own border?

Holy cow! I'm not going to even try and explain that one!!! Where's those canucks when you need 'em!??

Since86
08-12-2008, 04:37 PM
Tell me this, because I don't know and I'm willing to reconsider... is Phelps supposed to break a world record in every one of his events? If he gets one more medal than Spitz, but with fewer WRs, is that as impressive?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0807/all.time.greatest.summer.olympians/content.10.html

I dunno if he's supposed to break all of them, he has broken 3 already I believe, but going into the olympics he already held 6 WRs.

http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/_Rainbow/Documents/08d4e0bc-737b-4b37-a086-4b9651291eef/Rulebook%20Records%20-%20July%2031%202008.pdf

EDIT: At the 2007 Worlds Swim meet he won 7 gold metals, and broke 5 WRs.

And yes, he has broke every WR that he's swam in so far at Beijing.

EDIT2: He has 200m butterfly (holds WR), 4x200m freestyle (holds WR), 200m medley (holds WR), 100m butterfly (WR held by Ian Crocker of the US set in '05, but Phelps holds the OR), and the 4x100m medley (WR & OR held by the US team from '04) left to swim.

Out of his last 5 he holds 3 WRs, so he still has 6 and could move up to as many as 8.

EDIT3: (sorry last edit) Since the '04 Athens games, he's broken 11 WRs. Obviously in the same event more than once.

BKK
08-12-2008, 04:50 PM
damn 4 silver medals in one day for France and still no gold... gotta be pissed :(

ChicagoJ
08-12-2008, 05:39 PM
Carl Lewis was OK, but I enjoyed watching Michael Johnson more. Something about the way he ran was just fun to watch.

While I admire what Michael did on the track, I was a bigger fan of Butch Reynolds, who had the prime years of his career stolen away by a legal fight with the IAAF to clear his name.

I so, so, so wanted Butch to beat him in the 400 final in Atlanta. But it wasn't to be. Regardless, the two of them made for one hell of last half of a mile relay.

And as of today, that 1993 team is the world-record holders again, thanks to Antonio Pettigrew's doping in the late-nineties.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/olympics/wires/08/12/2080.ap.as.oly.ath.iaaf.record.scrapped/

(Which recently cost Michael Johnson a gold medal.)

Brohan Cruyff
08-12-2008, 06:19 PM
He might have been in position to take gold in several events in Moscow in 1980 had we not boycotted.

And he would have been actually threatened in 1984, had half the world not boycotted those Olympics. Michael Phelps is more dominant in his sport -- against the real best competitors in that sport -- than anyone since Babe Ruth [or Babe Didrickson or Jim Thorpe]. And Babe Ruth wasn't playing against people like Satchel Paige or Josh Gibson.

Summary: Michael Phelps is a freaking beast. He probably won't get the real credit he deserves now -- just blind hype -- but history will be kind to him, I think.

JayRedd
08-12-2008, 06:40 PM
Sugar Ray Robinson.

ChicagoJ
08-12-2008, 06:55 PM
And he would have been actually threatened in 1984, had half the world not boycotted those Olympics. Michael Phelps is more dominant in his sport -- against the real best competitors in that sport -- than anyone since Babe Ruth [or Babe Didrickson or Jim Thorpe]. And Babe Ruth wasn't playing against people like Satchel Paige or Josh Gibson.

Really??

That's interesting. The Soviets didn't boycott the '83 Worlds. In fact, they had one less medal than the US and East Germany had more golds than the US.

Carl convincingly won all three of his events. He wasn't entered in the 200, but was generally regarded as stronger in the 200 than Calvin Smith who won. In fact, the US went 1-2-3 in the 100m and 1-2-3 in the long jump and 1-2 in the 200m.

Carl Lewis has been retired for a decade now and still has 3x as many jumps over 8.65m as any other long-jumper in history, along with four Olympic gold medals.

As for history, that's kinda my point right now. What Carl Lewis did is being cheapened currently because swimming happens to have so many different races at so many slightly different lengths.

Trader Joe
08-12-2008, 07:02 PM
Sugar Ray Robinson.

Does anyone else hear that odd rasping noise?

Trader Joe
08-12-2008, 08:01 PM
Lots of chances for the USA to lengthen its medal lead tonight.

Robertmto
08-12-2008, 08:07 PM
these horses got vert

DisplacedKnick
08-12-2008, 08:30 PM
Sugar Ray Robinson.

Lance Armstrong. Not that anyone (including me) cares about that sport but he's my nominee.

t1hs0n
08-12-2008, 09:08 PM
http://www.moarpics.com/images/rlp29rddywyigtlt25.gif

So awesome.

DisplacedKnick
08-12-2008, 09:22 PM
wait... how the hell can canada be to the south of its own border?

OMG - it's true!!!


CANADA'S INVADING!

RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!

Trader Joe
08-12-2008, 09:25 PM
BLAME CANADA, BLAME CANADA!

ilive4sports
08-12-2008, 09:27 PM
Lance Armstrong. Not that anyone (including me) cares about that sport but he's my nominee.

I care about cycling (as does the rest of my family considering my brother competes in it) and actually I have been saying how what Phelps is doing is similar to what Lance is doing to my friends.

Trader Joe
08-12-2008, 10:16 PM
Katie Hoff is so far a major disappointment.

Trader Joe
08-12-2008, 10:23 PM
Four golds, four world records so far.

This is just becoming ridiculous.

Ten career golds. Nuts.

ajbry
08-12-2008, 10:24 PM
He didn't even look good on that one and he still got gold and a world record. Damn.

Trader Joe
08-12-2008, 10:26 PM
He was actually pretty pissed about that performance.

ajbry
08-12-2008, 10:30 PM
I'm actually looking forward to the women's gymnastics team final... Mainly because it's been so hyped up and we're essentially head-to-head with China.

Trader Joe
08-12-2008, 10:31 PM
Shawn Johnson and Nastia Lukin are money. It's on the third gymnast in every event (usually Alicia Sacramone) to bring even a B+/A- game and we should get it.

ajbry
08-12-2008, 10:33 PM
Wow.

ajbry
08-12-2008, 10:35 PM
These Chinese girls are beasting it.

Trader Joe
08-12-2008, 10:35 PM
If their ages are 16 I'll eat my shoe.

ajbry
08-12-2008, 10:37 PM
If their ages are 16 I'll eat my shoe.

That last girl literally looked 10 years old.

Trader Joe
08-12-2008, 10:38 PM
My oldest adopted sister from China is 8 and she didn't look much older than her. I'll be generous and say she's twelve, but God strike me down now if she's actually 16.

Trader Joe
08-12-2008, 10:49 PM
Shawn Johnson throwin' down the 16. I bet we have the lead after rotation 1.

ajbry
08-12-2008, 10:50 PM
That went well, three more rotations to go...

Trader Joe
08-12-2008, 10:51 PM
We're up on China. Russia is in first, but they were on a different event.

Trader Joe
08-12-2008, 11:11 PM
Bela Karolyi is freakin' awesome.

ajbry
08-12-2008, 11:17 PM
Ugh, only bronze?

Trader Joe
08-12-2008, 11:24 PM
This first leg is ridiculous. He's just showing off now. He just finished his last race 54 minutes ago. I'm sorry thats what makes this so impressive. He gets pretty much no time to recover and he still just dominates everyone.

Trader Joe
08-12-2008, 11:29 PM
Five golds, five world records.

JayRedd
08-12-2008, 11:37 PM
He just finished his last race 54 minutes ago. I'm sorry thats what makes this so impressive. He gets pretty much no time to recover and he still just dominates everyone.

Sugar Ray went 20-0 in 10 months once.

Trader Joe
08-12-2008, 11:39 PM
Sugar Ray went 20-0 in 10 months once.

Good for him.

Trader Joe
08-12-2008, 11:57 PM
That performance on balance beam by Johnson was nothing short of fantastic.

Trader Joe
08-13-2008, 12:02 AM
Well Alicia totally choked on the last two events.

Trader Joe
08-13-2008, 12:10 AM
Bela Karolyi calling out the Chinese team. This guy is awesome. We need more of him on the Olympic broadcasts.

SycamoreKen
08-13-2008, 12:11 AM
I would love to see the girls win gold, but considering what the Chinese girls go through to be there I wouldn't be disappointed if they won. Not only for themselves, but for the thousands, if not millions of girls that get sent through that mill they call a training process.

Trader Joe
08-13-2008, 12:20 AM
It feels wrong to be watching these girls win. They look so happy to be representing "their" country yet they are trained like robots from the age of three, and they see their family ONCE a year. That's not normal. The IOC should NOT be OK with that. I'm sorry. These girls live in a country where they will be treated like second class citizens for the rest of their lives, so yes I am happy to see them win and get this moment of joy and glory, but it is also sad to see them compete so hard for a country that doesn't truly respect them.

SycamoreKen
08-13-2008, 12:25 AM
I completely agree. Look at what has happened to the former Eastern Block countries since the fall of the USSR. Even the Romanian coach said that they could not train like they used to, which is probably a good thing.

At least this set of girls and guys get to breath a sigh of relief that they won in China. I can't imagine how they would have been treated had they lost. That they are just a piece of the machine is so wrong, especially compared to Shawn Johnson who doesn't even train in the ridged system that our athletes usually do. She has a "normal" life to go back to.

LoneGranger33
08-13-2008, 02:04 AM
As normal a life as a girl named Shawn can have.

DisplacedKnick
08-13-2008, 06:43 AM
I would love to see the girls win gold, but considering what the Chinese girls go through to be there I wouldn't be disappointed if they won. Not only for themselves, but for the thousands, if not millions of girls that get sent through that mill they call a training process.

I'd rather they blew up so the Chinese government could decide what they're doing doesn't work and let these girls have lives.

The problem is, it DOES work.

Trader Joe
08-13-2008, 08:11 AM
Well of course it works. It'll never make it right though.

Putnam
08-13-2008, 08:39 AM
Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by ajbry http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/images/buttons/PDbuttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?p=771435#post771435)
If Phelps wins the remaining 5 events, it'll be impossible to deny calling him the most dominant individual athlete ever.
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

Sugar Ray Robinson thinks you're nuts. So does Muhammad Ali.


Those two are good suggestions. Another is Jim Thorpe.

You kids need to learn history, ajbry. You are certainly right so say Phelps is extremely good, but before you declare someone "the greatest ever" you need to know what has gone before.

Trader Joe
08-13-2008, 09:08 AM
Please, Ajbry was getting ready to mention Jim Thorpe right when I did. I've known about Jim Thorpe extensively since like the fourth grade. I did multiple reports on his life and accomplishments. Easily one of my favorite people of all time.

DisplacedKnick
08-13-2008, 09:10 AM
Well of course it works. It'll never make it right though.

That would be why I said I wished it would blow up on them.

Trader Joe
08-13-2008, 09:29 AM
I know, I wasn't suggesting otherwise. Just reiterating.

China is a country in a sad state of affairs caught between two ways to go. Economically they move towards becoming more of a capitalist country. Socially though they remain every bit what they were ten years ago.

Not to get all sob story on everyone, but as I watched the gymnastics competition last night I couldn't help but think about girls with all sorts of potential and ability in China that never even were able to make it to the age of 3. Mainly I grew angry as I thought to myself, "What makes these girls so gifted? What makes them any different than my three sisters who were cast aside by this country." LIke so many other girls around them. One of my sisters was going to be allowed to die from an easily fixable heart defect if my Dad hadn't stepped in.

Sad, sad, sad. Just overwhelming sadness comined with anger really got to me as I was watching that event last night. Millions of girls are sitting in orphanages over there right now, and they've shut off adoption during the Olympics right now. Referals for international adoptions from China can now take three years! Compare that to the ten to twelve months we waited on two of my sisters and the six months we waited on the third.
It's heartbreaking. About the only thing I can assume those girls on the Chinese gymnastics team have going for them is that they were either the first born or they come from a wealthy family.

So while their fate may be extremely screwed up to all of us in America, it's actually a blessing considering the possible alternatives. These girls were truly blessed to make it to the age of three, when it's sad to say, but it's true, it's just as likely they could have ended up in a dumpster behind an orphanage.
That's just the kind of country it is. I hope that now that they have won gold, the government will take care of them, but I'm not so sure that will happen.



Also, Hicks the probably breaks the politics rules, and I'm really sorry about the rant, but I just had to get this off my chest. It might just be best if everyone disregards it, but I needed to vent about it.

Trader Joe
08-13-2008, 09:33 AM
Anyways back to something a little less serious, although still disappointing, USA soccer team was eliminated today. We were unable to take down NIgeria without Freddy.

Putnam
08-13-2008, 10:18 AM
Please, Ajbry was getting ready to mention Jim Thorpe right when I did. I've known about Jim Thorpe extensively since like the fourth grade. I did multiple reports on his life and accomplishments. Easily one of my favorite people of all time.


A great wrong has been done here.

I didn't read the whole thread, and popped my Jim Thorpe comment in without realizing that both :bowdown: ajbry and :bowdown: Indy had evoked his name earlier in the thread.


I take back what I said about "you kids," and replace it with compliments for your acuity.

DisplacedKnick
08-13-2008, 10:50 AM
There are a lot of things to comment on about China. For one, they've set themselves up to have a social and demographic nightmare in 20-50 years. Second, in order to truly compete internationally, their culture simply HAS to loosen up drastically - an educated, intelligent workforce able to learn, change and adapt is a requirement even today and will be moreso down the road.

I'll shut up now and welcome anyone who wants to explore this further to sign up for UNPD and start a thread - there are so many facets about China that are absolutely fascinating, and somewhat scary when you look ahead a generation or two.

Trader Joe
08-13-2008, 11:29 AM
A great wrong has been done here.

I didn't read the whole thread, and popped my Jim Thorpe comment in without realizing that both :bowdown: ajbry and :bowdown: Indy had evoked his name earlier in the thread.


I take back what I said about "you kids," and replace it with compliments for your acuity.

;) Us young whipper snappers can lose sight of the past sometimes.

ChicagoJ
08-13-2008, 11:50 AM
This first leg is ridiculous. He's just showing off now. He just finished his last race 54 minutes ago. I'm sorry thats what makes this so impressive. He gets pretty much no time to recover and he still just dominates everyone.

Sprinters for swimming and track & field do this all the time. Frankly, he gets more time between events now than he would have at the NCAAs, where the entire meet is compressed to 3/4 days.

I don't know the exact swimming schedule, but I know a track and field sprinter would have potentially eight races in two days at a collegiate conference or national championship meet.

Impressive? Yes. What Michael Johnson did in '96 was impressive for the same reason. But there are dozens of swimmers at these Olympics (and every Olympics and World Championship) competing the same way. And there will be dozens of track athletes doing the same thing next week. Its the nature of competing in swimming and track and field at the Olympic level.

In other words, it is an impressive pre-requisite, but not an accomplishment in itself.

Trader Joe
08-13-2008, 12:58 PM
Not all of them are sweeping their events with world record times.

Since86
08-13-2008, 01:21 PM
As far as Jim Thorpe and Sugar Ray go, aren't we talking about the greatest ever olympic athlete?

Yes, I know Thorpe won two golds, and Sugar Ray won one, but when you start talking about the greatest longevity comes into play.

Putnam
08-13-2008, 01:22 PM
http://img02.beijing2008.cn/20080813/Img214536437.jpg

I know this was yesterday's news, but I went to King's Island yesterday and didn't read about this until today. What do you think of Bridget Sloan's role on the women's gymnastics team?

She only performed on the vault, I think, and she scored better than the lowest Chinese girl. So in a sense, she put the US team ahead and it was the other girls who couldn't maintain it.

Can she be satisfied with the part she played in this Olympics? Has she got a good chance of coming back at the age of 20 in 4 years?


she seems to have held up her place on the team quite well.

JayRedd
08-13-2008, 01:24 PM
The continual Sugar Ray references were about ajbry's comment.


If Phelps wins the remaining 5 events, it'll be impossible to deny calling him the most dominant individual athlete ever.

But mostly, I just keep bringing it up to annoy Indy.

JayRedd
08-13-2008, 01:26 PM
Much more importantly:

http://www.wwtdd.com/post.phtml?pk=10651

Trader Joe
08-13-2008, 01:26 PM
She had a good vault Putty. Alicia Sacramone (sp?) is the one who really cost us. Her fall on the beam and on the floor put us out of reach and her performing first on both events didn't help us any.

As far as her being back in four years, you have to figure that Johnson will be back on the team unless she decides she doesn't want to compete. Peszek is supposed to be pretty good, and you'd think she would want another shot since her injury cost her. Memmel, Lukin, and Alicia are all 20 now and are probably done. So I'd say there's a decent chance that if she performs well she could get on, but I'm sure there will be one or two new 16 year old phenoms by then.

Since86
08-13-2008, 01:27 PM
I would definately comfort her....

Trader Joe
08-13-2008, 01:27 PM
Much more importantly:

http://www.wwtdd.com/post.phtml?pk=10651

SHouldn't it say "Alicia Sacramone who last night cost the USA a gold medal..."

Trader Joe
08-13-2008, 01:28 PM
I would definately comfort her....

Yeah, it's actually not creepy to watch her.:D

Putnam
08-13-2008, 01:30 PM
Aren't we talking about the greatest ever olympic athlete?



Maybe other were looking at the question differently, but I thought the question was the most dominant athlete, not limited to olympics.

Jim Thorpe was limited by the number of opportunities he had, and certainly wouldn't measure up today. But in his day, he was dominant at every sport he tried.

Maybe we should ask this question: Michael Phelps is the greatest swimmer alive, but what would be his batting average against major league pitching? Or what would his yards-per-carry average be if he were a running back for the Cleveland Browns?

Since86
08-13-2008, 01:31 PM
I started to feel creepy watching Shawn Johnson, then realized she'll be 18 in less than two years. Worth the wait.

Then there's Lukin (sp?) and the other girl from Indiana, not Sloan. They would have won gold if looks were a part of the judging.

Trader Joe
08-13-2008, 01:32 PM
Maybe other were looking at the question differently, but I thought the question was the most dominant athlete, not limited to olympics.

Jim Thorpe was limited by the number of opportunities he had, and certainly wouldn't measure up today. But in his day, he was dominant at every sport he tried.

Maybe we should ask this question: Michael Phelps is the greatest swimmer alive, but what would be his batting average against major league pitching? Or what would his yards-per-carry average be if he were a running back for the Cleveland Browns?

I bet Phelps could be a mean wide receiver.

Since86
08-13-2008, 01:32 PM
I thought the question was the most dominant athlete, not limited to olympics.

It started out as the greatest olympic athlete ever, which is why Spitz and Carl Lewis were brought up. IIRC.

I looks like a wayward comment from abjry sent it into most dominant.:box:

Trader Joe
08-13-2008, 01:32 PM
I started to feel creepy watching Shawn Johnson, then realized she'll be 18 in less than two years. Worth the wait.

Then there's Lukin (sp?) and the other girl from Indiana, not Sloan. They would have won gold if looks were a part of the judging.

They probably would have won gold if Peszek and Memmel were healthy anyways.

Yeah I was already creeped out watching Johnson, and it was even more so after I figured out that she was basically four feet tall. I hope she returns in 2012.

I also hope we get more Bela Karolyi action in the individual events.

Trader Joe
08-13-2008, 01:34 PM
It started out as the greatest olympic athlete ever, which is why Spitz and Carl Lewis were brought up. IIRC.

I looks like a wayward comment from abjry sent it into most dominant.:box:

I said it might be time to consider him the best athlete ever in any sport. Saying it had to be considered a possibility.

Since86
08-13-2008, 01:35 PM
No love for the petite girls? As tall as Luikin looks compared to the other girls, she's only 5'2"

JayRedd
08-13-2008, 01:37 PM
Shawn Johnson looks like a mouse. You guys are weird.

Also...the "most dominant athlete" came before the most dominant Olympian talk.

Trader Joe
08-13-2008, 01:37 PM
No love for the petite girls? As tall as Luikin looks compared to the other girls, she's only 5'2"

Well I mean four feet tall is pretty short AND you're sixteen. It'll be easier to deal with her being four feet tall in two years.

DisplacedKnick
08-13-2008, 02:02 PM
Much more importantly:

http://www.wwtdd.com/post.phtml?pk=10651

Gotta be fake - she might not know it but the dude was probably hoping for a sympathy bone and faked her out.

His head not snapping when she hit him and his grabbing the rail to help with his fall are pretty much giveaways.

DisplacedKnick
08-13-2008, 02:03 PM
Yeah, it's actually not creepy to watch her.:D

She's definitely hot - and unlike Johnson, staring at her doesn't make you feel like you should go to the police station and get listed.

DisplacedKnick
08-13-2008, 02:04 PM
No love for the petite girls? As tall as Luikin looks compared to the other girls, she's only 5'2"

Petite's one thing - the pre-pubescent Chinese are another. At least all the American girls have boobs.

Trader Joe
08-13-2008, 02:12 PM
Well the Chinese are cheating. I like how during the whole thing NBC was like, "There has been some controversy about the Chinese gymnasts ages. However their passports confirm their age as 16."

Oh really? You mean the passports handed out by the Chinese government? Yeah I bet they've never doctored up some fake documents ever before.