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View Full Version : Bob Kravitz now publicly calling for T-Mac



Hicks
06-16-2004, 03:00 AM
Join the bandwagon, Bob! Help bring him home! :laugh: :D

http://www.indystar.com/articles/9/155214-4169-179.html

Go get him.

Tracy McGrady, that is.

Assuming he becomes available, which likely will be the case after the Orlando Magic's frustrated star meets with team owner Rich DeVos on Friday and shares his thoughts on his long-term commitment to that organization. McGrady, who has three years remaining on his deal, has an opt-out clause at the end of next season, and the Magic are not going to risk losing him the way they lost Shaquille O'Neal -- for absolutely no compensation.

So how about Indiana?

If the Pacers want to make it happen badly enough -- and they should want to make it happen pretty badly -- they will find a way.

Let me say it again:

Go get him.

"We could make it work, absolutely," Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh said Tuesday. "I have spoken to somebody in their organization, and I sensed there was interest there. What they're telling me is, there's a good chance he's going to be traded. So, yeah, a player like that out there, we're definitely going to be interested."

How to do it?

McGrady's salary cap number is around $14.5 million. The Pacers would have to send Orlando players whose combined salaries fall within 15 percent of that number. So it's like this: Start with Al Harrington ($6.3 million), who will get traded in the media no fewer than 50 times this summer. Then it's an issue of deciding who that second player might be.

Jonathan Bender ($6.5 million)? That would be my preference, but it might not be Orlando's choice.

Ron Artest ($6.2 million)? That would be hard to swallow, but for McGrady, it's a deal I'd make, however grudgingly.

It's a price worth paying to have the Shaq-and-Kobe of the East.

(And no, I don't think the Magic would happily take Austin Croshere and his big contract off Walsh's hands. If we're going to talk about trades, let's talk about ones that might work for both teams.)

"Once everybody agrees on the principals, our two guys for their one, you can make it work," Walsh said. "It wouldn't be that hard."

For his part, McGrady, who is friends with Jermaine O'Neal, has mentioned Indiana as one of the teams he'd be willing to join as part of a sign-and-trade deal. The only caveat for the Pacers: Making sure McGrady would be willing to sign a long-term deal to remain here. Indiana isn't going to mortgage its future for a one-year rental.

Now, keep in mind, you can throw just about anybody's name out there -- George Mikan, for instance -- and Walsh will say, "Sure, it's always worth following up with a phone call." And rumors, big ones, are born.

But this is not one of those.

The Pacers are interested in McGrady, and should be interested in McGrady. And Walsh made it clear Tuesday, he and Larry Bird are willing to move anybody except O'Neal if it means making a deal that catapults them past Detroit.

"Is anybody untouchable?" Walsh was asked.

"No," he said. "No one. Except Jermaine. He's our franchise player."

Not Artest?

"No," Walsh said.

Not Bender?

"No."

Last summer, the Pacers had a lot of base-year compensation players, making a blockbuster deal virtually impossible. That's not the case this season, at least not after July 1. If there was ever a time for the Pacers to cash in on their incredible depth, this is it.

McGrady is not the only huge name being floated out there. How about Kobe Bryant? If his legal troubles are resolved, he is going to be somewhere other than Los Angeles next season. And there aren't many teams who have more to offer than the Pacers.

(If this happens, please remember, you heard it here first. If it doesn't, well, never mind.)

We've also heard a lot about Golden State center Erick Dampier, although that talk has been cooling lately.

McGrady, though, is the one that makes the most sense. All he gives them is everything they need. An outside scorer, another option that takes pressure off O'Neal, a perimeter player who can create shots against the league's increasingly stingy defenses, and an obvious heir to Reggie Miller.

Yeah, he has some baggage. But it's more of the carry-on variety. Move him to a good situation where the team is winning and he's not required to score 40 a night, and he's reborn.

The Pacers know they are close now, closer than they originally thought after watching the Pistons defeat the Lakers. But they're not going to yield to the temptation to stand pat, to have a Colts-like offseason. Indiana did nothing at the trade deadline this season, and watched as Detroit made one of the most dramatic, season-altering deals ever made when they picked up Rasheed Wallace.

Now, it's the Pacers' turn.

The name is McGrady.

Go get him.

kerosene
06-16-2004, 03:02 AM
Is this the Kravitz way of softening up Pacers fans? Sounds like if a major move that makes sense can be made....

JOneal7
06-16-2004, 03:06 AM
MAKE THE MOVE BABY! HAHHhAHAHAH OH MAN THAT'D BE GREAT! MY 2 FAV PLAYERS ON THE SAME TEAM! Watching them every night would be so sick! Hah! I wonder if tmac will still sign my basketball jerseys of the magic if he comes here? LOL

bulletproof
06-16-2004, 03:11 AM
A couple of things:


"We could make it work, absolutely," Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh said Tuesday. "I have spoken to somebody in their organization, and I sensed there was interest there. What they're telling me is, there's a good chance he's going to be traded. So, yeah, a player like that out there, we're definitely going to be interested."

Wait, Will Galen, what is Donnie doing talking to Orlando? Isn't that Bird's job?


"Is anybody untouchable?" Walsh was asked.

"No," he said. "No one. Except Jermaine. He's our franchise player."

Not Artest?

"No," Walsh said.

Take special note all you doofusses who refused to acknowledge that Ron might be traded.

Peck
06-16-2004, 03:42 AM
Well, I see that Bulletproof beat me to my post.

Ahem, I would have made it without calling everybody doofusses, but then again that is why he is a poster some of you love to hate. :flirt:

Needless to say I almost went into Cardiac Arrest when I read with quotes that Ron Artest was not untouchable.

I've been reading Donnie for 19 years now & this is the first time I've ever seen him this way. I don't know if it's he wants that title before he goes or if it's Birds influance or whatever it is, I've never seen Donnie not talk about trades without at some point in time saying (we are always listening, but you don't make a trade for the sake of trades).

Damn Walsh, he's going to go & force me to actually compliment him before he retires.

BTW, Will, I didn't really want to point this out but since B.P. did I figure what the hell. If Bird is in total charge of player movements why is Walsh talking with Orlando.

I've never said this before & I am still somewhat shocked that I feel the need to say it it now, but I actually think there may be something big happen this summer.

bulletproof
06-16-2004, 03:48 AM
Needless to say I almost went into Cardiac Arrest when I read with quotes that Ron Artest was not untouchable.

I bet you did. ;)

Natston
06-16-2004, 03:51 AM
I guess Artest is gone now because Donnie always tells the media how it is... :rolleyes:

bulletproof
06-16-2004, 03:54 AM
I guess Artest is gone now because Donnie always tells the media how it is... :rolleyes:

Is that what you read, because that's not what I read. I didn't see anything there that said "Ron is gone."

Natston
06-16-2004, 03:58 AM
I guess Artest is gone now because Donnie always tells the media how it is... :rolleyes:

Is that what you read, because that's not what I read. I didn't see anything there that said "Ron is gone."

I was being sarcastic... :blush:

Will Galen
06-16-2004, 06:36 AM
Wait, Will Galen, what is Donnie doing talking to Orlando? Isn't that Bird's job?

Sorry Bulletproff and Peck, I guess my writing is as bad as my speaking because it's obvious you don't understand what I've been trying to say.

I have agreed that Donnie and Bird work closely together. My only difference is I say it's Bird who has last say in personnal matters.

Is that clear to everybody? Is that clear to you Bulletproof?

indygeezer
06-16-2004, 06:41 AM
I nearly fell off the...place I was seated when I read Kravitz column. The headline didn't mean much but when he quoted DW :jawdrop: . I had to start looking for the link to this site because I just knew it was an extension of the DW thread from last night.

Donnie NEVER talks that openly so it tells me 1 of 2 things. EIther a deal has already been done or we are being softened up for a big blow (loss of Ron). Oh wait, 3rd thing might be DW softeneing up another team that might be listening and he wants to spur them on a bit.

But you couple these comments with Ron blowing off the exit meeting and I gotta think something is about to happen.

And you can forget about Kobe coming here. His wife hasmade it abundantly clear she wants to stay in LA. And we all know who hold the upper hand there now don't we? So The Clippers, not the Pacers, will land Kobe.

As to why DW would be talking to Orlando, why not? He's said that he and Larry would talk together. Well? If DW wants to talk to Orlando, Larry is just a cell phone away. I would assume LB has either been on vacation or in Chicago scouting. In either case something big WILL BE HAPPENING THIS SUMMER. As I said in another thread. We no longer have to beat Detroit to get to the finals, we now have to BEAT THE CHAMPIONS to get to the finals.


DW talking so candidly also tells me the apocolypse is upon us.

Will Galen
06-16-2004, 06:54 AM
And you can forget about Kobe coming here. His wife hasmade it abundantly clear she wants to stay in LA. And we all know who hold the upper hand there now don't we? So The Clippers, not the Pacers, will land Kobe.

That's what I'm reading, and I agree.

As for Ron, blowing off Bird was the wrong thing to do. Bird said he would be fined and that would be the end of it, but Bird is a no nonsense guy. I'm now thinking that Al has a better chance of staying than Ron does.

Hoop
06-16-2004, 06:55 AM
I'm getting excited about seeing T-Mac in a Pacers uniform, I hope they ain't teasing us. The dude is capable of getting a triple double at anytime or dropping 50. If it means getting rid of Ron and Al, I can even deal with that. We'd still have Bender and Freddie. Who knows Bender might reach his potential and Freddie will get better.

indygeezer
06-16-2004, 07:07 AM
But would we be able to play defense with the Pistons? We can't lose that because they have shown they have the ability to stop the greatest of offenses (although I still think Kobe's ego had something to do with that too).

Artestaholic
06-16-2004, 07:28 AM
Actually, T-Mac is the best offender in the league :)
Putting him beside JO makes them both consideraby better scorers.
I dont think the Pistons could handle that.
Also we would have 2 players considerably better than anyone on the Pistons, so I dont think the Pistons could handle that either.
Indiana with JO&T-Mac is the team of the present and the future. Multiple rings if it happens.

indygeezer
06-16-2004, 07:37 AM
So you consider JO+Tmac better than Shaq+Kobe?

Ignore the fact that Kobe caused that loss by being completely selfish and taking Shaq out of the game.

Harddrive7
06-16-2004, 07:42 AM
Ok, plain and simple. Who would you rather package?


Harrington/Bender
Harrington/Artest

Bender's potential of becoming an All Star
Artest's potential of imploding

ABADays
06-16-2004, 08:15 AM
Geez, I think Kobe could come here. If his wife wants to stay in LA she could do that and let Kobe come here all alone. Right!?!

Will Galen
06-16-2004, 08:18 AM
Geez, I think Kobe could come here. If his wife wants to stay in LA she could do that and let Kobe come here all alone. Right!?!

I think she is going to stay in LA while he goes to Colorado.

Chambizzle
06-16-2004, 08:20 AM
Sure kobe could come here... after all there's plenty of women... and hotels :)

naptownmenace
06-16-2004, 08:42 AM
I'm afraid of another heartbreak. I can't get myself hyped up for this no matter how badly I'd love to.

With TMac, the Pacers would be frontrunners for the title. They could possibly add a few big men defenders like Brian Skinner or Mark Blount to round out the roster. I'd better stop.

BillS
06-16-2004, 08:52 AM
If Detroit won the title with defense and the man who is the next greatest defender in the league, I am just very concerned that by giving up on defensive focus and using Ron to get T-Mac, we simply become the Lakers of the East. Who lost this year, by the way.

Grant
06-16-2004, 09:02 AM
Ok, plain and simple. Who would you rather package?


Harrington/Bender
Harrington/Artest

Bender's potential of becoming an All Star
Artest's potential of imploding

I think that Freddie would have to be part of the deal. Orlando will need a SG if they move McGrady.

As I understand it, Harrington/Bender has been on the table for a while now. Orlando is probably trying to squeeze more out of Indiana and they are still shopping McGrady for the best deal. Indiana will probably not budge unless someone else comes up with a better deal.

Suaveness
06-16-2004, 09:12 AM
I know my opinion doesn't count for much, and it is probably a waste of time to read this.

But I truly believe we need Ron to go to the Finals. I think that he defense in integral in maintaining our own good defense. Trading for McGrady is fine, but giving up on defense is hard to do.

You do not ever trade defense for offense, especially when he is the DPOY and scares the living hell out of his opponents.

Yes, you would have to put up with Ron. His lateness, his extreme desire to win. But you know, that isn't a bad thing? Is it worth trading an amazing defensive player because he missed a meeting? I do not think so.

I know a lot of people think that our team defense can more than make up for Ron. I do not think so. Within all great defense teams are individuals who help to make a lot of difference. Detroit had Prince. SA had Bowen. We have Ron. It is so vital for that person to be there.

Think about it. Who is going to guard the main player of the other team? Those guys will have field days on us. And this team is not as good defensively as Detroit. So cannot expect to shut people down like they did to Kobe. Imagine if we went to the finals. Who would guard Kobe? Don't you think Ron there would help? I think so.

Getting better from the perimeter is important. Very important. But losing defense is the last thing we should be doing. Because defense wins championships. Being an offensive team doesn't.

Now, this doesn't mean I don't think getting Tracy would be bad. I think it isn't worth sacrificing Ron for. If there is some other way, such as a 3 way deal, then I am for it. However, giving up Ron is too much for me.

Gyron
06-16-2004, 09:22 AM
I was thinking about this last night....The only thing that really sacres me about getting Tmac here in Indy?

It's not the fact that we might have to give up Ron, which I would really hate to see.......

The one thing I wonder is how will JO and Tracy get along both trying to be "the man" on the team, similar to whats happening with Kobe and Shaq?

I know they are good friends off court, but when and if the two become teammates and both are looked to as go to guys, how is that going to affect the relationship?

Maybe I'm worrying for nothing, but I've always looked at JO and Tmac similarly, kinda high maintainence when it comes to their ego.....Not that its a bad thing, but can two of the same kind work together well on the same team?

I really hope I'm wrong and that we get T-Mac, and are able to keep Ron, and we go on to when the championship. Just that little concern I have in the back on my head......

ahhteeth
06-16-2004, 09:35 AM
I'm sticking with my post about my buddy talking to JO in the cell phone store and saying Ron is gone for TMac.

1. Ron just showed publicly his disrespect for this organization.

2. I think that JO and TMac would not be as selfish as kobe or shaq, because they are both winners and as long as we are winning i dont think JO would care. He always seems to want to do best for the team.

Come on Pacers pull through on your first BIG deal.

Unclebuck
06-16-2004, 09:43 AM
I am not giving up both Ron and Al, nor am I giving up both Bender and Ron.


I'll give up Bender and Al or I''ll give up Ron only.

I guess I just said that, yes I'll give up Ron and filler for McGrady.

I realize if Ron is traded in order to make salaries work, you have to include Fred and Pollard.

Fred is better than filler, some of you think Bender is filler

I think I am having a heart attack

MSA2CF
06-16-2004, 09:47 AM
How can he be so sure McGrady will be "reborn" here? Was Artest "reborn" when he came here? :unimpressed:

If Ron leaves, we had better get at least 2 good players to make up the space for him. And by good I mean worthy of playing 25+ minutes a night. I'm not sacrificing these years of cultivating and tending the young Pacers crop to just satisfy an urge to do something drastic, but then again, I'm not the GM.

Suaveness
06-16-2004, 09:54 AM
I am not giving up both Ron and Al, nor am I giving up both Bender and Ron.


I'll give up Bender and Al or I''ll give up Ron only.

I guess I just said that, yes I'll give up Ron and filler for McGrady.

I realize if Ron is traded in order to make salaries work, you have to include Fred and Pollard.

Fred is better than filler, some of you think Bender is filler

I think I am having a heart attack

:laugh: Don't die on us UB.

Do you think we can beat the Pistons without Ron's defense, UB?

bulletproof
06-16-2004, 10:05 AM
Hey Anthem, Suaveness & rabidpacersfans...

:finger:

:finger:

:finger:

One for each of you.



I have agreed that Donnie and Bird work closely together. My only difference is I say it's Bird who has last say in personnal matters.

Is that clear to everybody? Is that clear to you Bulletproof?

Oh, I'm clear about what you said, but it's still not like that.

Suaveness
06-16-2004, 10:08 AM
:finger::finger::finger::finger::finger:

And there is 5 for you :unimpressed:

I stick by my words.

bulletproof
06-16-2004, 10:12 AM
:finger::finger::finger::finger::finger:

And there is 5 for you :unimpressed:

I stick by my words.

Except your words mean nothing. Because they're based on wild speculation.

Unclebuck
06-16-2004, 10:13 AM
:laugh: Don't die on us UB.

Do you think we can beat the Pistons without Ron's defense, UB?


Probably not, but I can't think straight right now

Zesty
06-16-2004, 10:54 AM
I still firmly believe that if McGrady lands here, he'll be a much better defender than a lot of people here seem to be giving him credit for. He's the size, strength, and speed for it -- Carlisle will give him the focus, I believe. And besides, the Pistons didn't have a defender as good as Ron this year (I don't want to hear about Ben Wallace) -- it's their TEAM defense that won them the title. Ron's loss on the defensive end can be absorbed by the team as long as you aren't replacing him with a guy who place defense like the Dirk Nowitzkis or Glen Robinsons of the world.

LAPacer
06-16-2004, 11:05 AM
TMac would also bring in the media attention the pacers have always wanted :reporter: :reporter: :reporter: :reporter: :reporter: :reporter:

MSA2CF
06-16-2004, 11:22 AM
TMac would also bring in the media attention the pacers have always wanted :reporter: :reporter: :reporter: :reporter: :reporter: :reporter:

Yeah, and make it harder for me to get tickets to the games. :(

Artestaholic
06-16-2004, 11:25 AM
A lot of people are saying Artest & Harrington for T-Mac...but isn't the point of Al being traded because he wants to start? If he and Ron both go to Orlando and play their natural positions, he'll still be Rons backup only on a 21-win team as opposed to a 61-win team.
I'd rather give up Bender and let Al start at SF.

BillS
06-16-2004, 11:28 AM
I still firmly believe that if McGrady lands here, he'll be a much better defender than a lot of people here seem to be giving him credit for. He's the size, strength, and speed for it -- Carlisle will give him the focus, I believe. And besides, the Pistons didn't have a defender as good as Ron this year (I don't want to hear about Ben Wallace) -- it's their TEAM defense that won them the title. Ron's loss on the defensive end can be absorbed by the team as long as you aren't replacing him with a guy who place defense like the Dirk Nowitzkis or Glen Robinsons of the world.

But having the individual tools to go to on defense is what allowed them to single-team Shaq and focus on everyone else.

They did start double-teaming off the PF slot (injured Malone, ineffective Medvedenko or however you spell it), and if someone could have come in at that slot and been able to step it up they'd have been in as much trouble as we were against Rip.

You MUST have strong individual defenders to build the team defense on. You can't have a strong team defense built with all average defenders. You end up waaaay too vulnerable to someone with better offense.

In other words, so we build to fight Detroit and lose in an early round to Miami?

Artestaholic
06-16-2004, 11:31 AM
"It appears McGrady is ready to ask the Magic to trade him to a playoff team, and the silence of all parties may indicate that a deal already may be in the works."

Shade
06-16-2004, 12:01 PM
Needless to say I almost went into Cardiac Arrest when I read with quotes that Ron Artest was not untouchable.

Cardiac Artest? :P

There must be some serious problems with Ron behind the scenes for him to be untouchable after all this.

I do agree that it's nice hearing that we may actually puruse T-Mac. Assuming "wost case scenario" (Ron/Al for T-Mac, Brezec drafted by Charlotte), here's what we'd be looking at before any other moves:

C - Foster/Pollard
PF - O'Neal/Crohere
SF - Bender/JJones
SG - McGrady/Miller/FJones
PG - Tinsley/Johnson/Brewer

Not bad...not bad at all. I'm a big Bender fan but I would MUCH rather give him up along with Freddie in place of either Ron (preferably) or Al. I think Ron, Jonny, and Freddie is very fair for T-Mac, especially if he opts to walk.

Would this be a championship-level team?

Hicks
06-16-2004, 12:02 PM
I still firmly believe that if McGrady lands here, he'll be a much better defender than a lot of people here seem to be giving him credit for. He's the size, strength, and speed for it -- Carlisle will give him the focus, I believe. And besides, the Pistons didn't have a defender as good as Ron this year (I don't want to hear about Ben Wallace) -- it's their TEAM defense that won them the title. Ron's loss on the defensive end can be absorbed by the team as long as you aren't replacing him with a guy who place defense like the Dirk Nowitzkis or Glen Robinsons of the world.

I agree with this. I think T-Mac can and would be an above average defender for us, maybe even better than that. And it's all about team defense first. As long as the team keeps playing as hard as they did this year on D, I'll always like our chances on D.

Bball
06-16-2004, 12:07 PM
When I first read the Kravitz piece I thought the Walsh quotes were fictional. Not what I expect to hear from Walsh.

Artestaholic says- A lot of people are saying Artest & Harrington for T-Mac...but isn't the point of Al being traded because he wants to start? If he and Ron both go to Orlando and play their natural positions, he'll still be Rons backup only on a 21-win team as opposed to a 61-win team.


Al starting or not wouldn't be our problem.

-Bball

Zesty
06-16-2004, 12:12 PM
I still firmly believe that if McGrady lands here, he'll be a much better defender than a lot of people here seem to be giving him credit for. He's the size, strength, and speed for it -- Carlisle will give him the focus, I believe. And besides, the Pistons didn't have a defender as good as Ron this year (I don't want to hear about Ben Wallace) -- it's their TEAM defense that won them the title. Ron's loss on the defensive end can be absorbed by the team as long as you aren't replacing him with a guy who place defense like the Dirk Nowitzkis or Glen Robinsons of the world.
You MUST have strong individual defenders to build the team defense on. You can't have a strong team defense built with all average defenders. You end up waaaay too vulnerable to someone with better offense.

I agree with that, but what I was trying to say is that I think McGrady can be a very strong individual defender, in which case losing Ron's defense wouldn't hurt nearly as much because T-Mac can still be very good and the team defense would help make up for any other disparity.

BillS
06-16-2004, 12:13 PM
Needless to say I almost went into Cardiac Arrest when I read with quotes that Ron Artest was not untouchable.

SF - Bender/JJones

Would this be a championship-level team?

:omg: :omg: :scream: :scream: :shudder: :zip:

Suaveness
06-16-2004, 12:33 PM
Needless to say I almost went into Cardiac Arrest when I read with quotes that Ron Artest was not untouchable.

SF - Bender/JJones

Would this be a championship-level team?

:omg: :omg: :scream: :scream: :shudder: :zip:

Yes that worries me. And Bender and Tracy are pretty similar. Though Bender has shown nothing.

pb777
06-16-2004, 12:56 PM
I just dont see Orlando taking Al and JB or Al, Fred and Pollard. They will want Ron plus ?_____. And for TMac - do it!

For everyone that says we will lose our defensive strengths, I doubt it. We will lose a great one on one defender in Ron, but RC is still the coach, and RC's emphasis is defense. The entire world just witnessed that good team defense wins over superstar offense. I doubt that RC would forget how to coach defense. I look for the Pacers to step up as a team defensivly, and for individuals to step up their intensity and help each other out on D. Plus, TMac plays good D when he wants to, and being on a playoff team will most likely make him want to.

In order for the Pacers to win a championship - they must play team basketball. Everyone must be on the same page. If RC calls a play, and 4 out of the 5 on the court follow the play and the other (Ron) does whatever he (Ron) feels like - that's a repeat of the 2004 ECF.
I can deal with the offcourt problems and interests Ronnie has. It's the stuff on the court that worries me. He is not really a team player, he is more an individual who wants to do whatever he wants to do. He ignores the plays RC calls, he doesnt look to pass (black hole syndrome), he takes low percentage shots at the worst possible times, IMO he is an offensive liability. He IS a great one on one defender, but the Pacers need to build a team that plays TEAM BASKETBALL, and I'm not sure Ron is capable of that...

Will Galen
06-16-2004, 12:56 PM
I have agreed that Donnie and Bird work closely together. My only difference is I say it's Bird who has last say in personnal matters.

Is that clear to everybody? Is that clear to you Bulletproof?

Oh, I'm clear about what you said, but it's still not like that.

Most argumentative poster award goes to . . . you have my vote!


As for TMac coming here, how can we be assured he won't opt out next year? I don't see us trading for him with no assurance's.

bulletproof
06-16-2004, 01:12 PM
I have agreed that Donnie and Bird work closely together. My only difference is I say it's Bird who has last say in personnal matters.

Is that clear to everybody? Is that clear to you Bulletproof?

Oh, I'm clear about what you said, but it's still not like that.

Most argumentative poster award goes to . . . you have my vote!

If I was unclear or had a misconception about something, I'd welcome someone clarifying things for me. But that's just me. :whoknows:

Gyron
06-16-2004, 01:43 PM
"Once everybody agrees on the principals, our two guys for their one, you can make it work," Walsh said. "It wouldn't be that hard."

Looking at this quote from Donnie from the article, Who are the two guys to their one that matches up? We know the "one" is T-mac, so who's the two on the pacers?

Anyone have access to Real GM that could plug this in and see what works?

Suaveness
06-16-2004, 02:18 PM
"Once everybody agrees on the principals, our two guys for their one, you can make it work," Walsh said. "It wouldn't be that hard."

Looking at this quote from Donnie from the article, Who are the two guys to their one that matches up? We know the "one" is T-mac, so who's the two on the pacers?

Anyone have access to Real GM that could plug this in and see what works?

Theoretically, any combination of Ron, Al, or Bender would work, since their contracts are so similar.

Snickers
06-16-2004, 02:30 PM
McGrady makes $14,487,000 next season.

Al makes $6,250,000
Jon makes $6,390,000
Ron makes $5,850,000

Al + Jon = $12,640,000
Al + Ron = $12,100,000
Ron + Jon = $12,240,000

Some quick math tells me that to fit within the 15% trade rule, the salaries we give up have to equal $12,313,950 or more.

Al and Jon? That's my favourite option of the three. Realgm doesn't accept it though. Maybe my math is wrong....

Will Galen
06-16-2004, 02:32 PM
"Once everybody agrees on the principals, our two guys for their one, you can make it work," Walsh said. "It wouldn't be that hard."

Looking at this quote from Donnie from the article, Who are the two guys to their one that matches up? We know the "one" is T-mac, so who's the two on the pacers?



Good catch Gyron I overlooked that point! Interesting that Donnie said two principals. I think that means Artest would be one, because I don't think Orlando would give TMac up for two reserves even if Bender and Al were the principals.

Will Galen
06-16-2004, 02:36 PM
See my post below.

marcd
06-16-2004, 02:37 PM
McGrady makes $14,487,000 next season.

Al makes $6,250,000
Jon makes $6,390,000
Ron makes $5,850,000

Al + Jon = $12,640,000
Al + Ron = $12,100,000
Ron + Jon = $12,240,000

Some quick math tells me that to fit within the 15% trade rule, the salaries we give up have to equal $12,313,950 or more.

Al and Jon? That's my favourite option of the three. Realgm doesn't accept it though. Maybe my math is wrong....

That is because according to REALGM Jon is BYC until July 1st. Therefore, until July 1st the trade will get denied.

MarcD

Hicks
06-16-2004, 02:38 PM
RealGM doesn't accept it because of Bender's BYC. Which comes clean in July.

Snickers
06-16-2004, 02:42 PM
Aha. So maybe it's Ron and Jon for Tmac? Or are we dishing all three and doing the Al to Chicago for #3 too? :hmm:

Bball
06-16-2004, 03:17 PM
Can we throw in cash when it is just a measly $100,000.00 or so that makes the difference?

Million here... million there.... pretty soon we're talking real money.... ;)

-Bball

Will Galen
06-16-2004, 04:04 PM
McGrady makes $14,487,000 next season.

Al makes $6,250,000
Jon makes $6,390,000
Ron makes $5,850,000

Al + Jon = $12,640,000
Al + Ron = $12,100,000
Ron + Jon = $12,240,000

Some quick math tells me that to fit within the 15% trade rule, the salaries we give up have to equal $12,313,950 or more.

Al and Jon? That's my favourite option of the three. Realgm doesn't accept it though. Maybe my math is wrong....


Realgm is still set up for this year.

Trades have to be within 15% plus or minus $100,000. You have to figure trades from both ends too. That's why RealGM sometimes says that only one team met the conditions.

Using your figures only one trade meets those conditions. TMac makes $14,487,000, subtracting 15%, and subtracting $100,000, you get, $12,213,950. So any salary's you trade TMac's for have to be higher than $12,213,950.

From Orlando's end total salary's have to be above $12,213,950.
Al + Jon = $12,640,000. Trade works.
Al + Ron = $12,100,000. Trade doesn't work.
Ron + Jon = $12,240,000. Trade works.

Figuring from our end we have to add since we have the lower salary's. Our target would be TMac's $14,487,000 salary. So our target would be anything over what he makes.

Target is TMac's $14,487,000 salary.
Al + Jon = $12,640,000. Now add +15%,+$100,000, and you get $14,636,000. Trade will work.
Al + Ron = $12,100,000. Add +15%,+$100,000, and you get $14,015,000. Trade doesn't work.
Ron + Jon = $12,240,000. Add +15%,+$100,000, and you get $14,176,000. Trade doesn't work.


Al & Jon is the only trade that works from both ends. We would have to throw someone else in to make the other trades work.

indygeezer
06-16-2004, 04:10 PM
Not necessarily...we can do the lower value if we use that trade exemption left over from last years trade with SA. But it would have to be done fairly quickly.

Mourning
06-16-2004, 04:39 PM
Ok, SUPPOSE we throw that in too ( :cry: ), WHAT exactly will we have left in exceptions to pursue other players???

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

ChicagoJ
06-16-2004, 04:40 PM
Ok, SUPPOSE we throw that in too ( :cry: ), WHAT exactly will we have left in exceptions to pursue other players???

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

The trade exception can only be used in a trade.

As for pursuing FAs, we'd still have the MLE and vet's minimum to use. And those can't be used in a trade.

Mourning
06-16-2004, 04:57 PM
;) thanks!

Gyron
06-16-2004, 05:14 PM
Thanks for all the work guys:)

And I noticed in his interview he mentioned the two for one thing AGAIN.....

So maybe thats the scenario they are discussing......

Either way, it looks like Jon is gone, which is disappointing to me because I really like him even though he hasn't amounted to a whole lot yet.

So it still doesn't answer Ron or AL. But based on Donnies comments on Ron, I'm guessing its probably Ron, which also makes me sad.... :(

Snickers
06-16-2004, 05:17 PM
Well, we know that he's actually talking to them about a deal. Which is a lot more than we usually know....

Unless this all really is just a smokescreen to get someone else to overpay....

Zesty
06-16-2004, 05:22 PM
I'm betting the RonJon Surf Shops they have down in FL are really hoping to get Artest and Bender in there for McGrady. Think of the marketing! :D

Snickers
06-16-2004, 05:25 PM
I'm betting the RonJon Surf Shops they have down in FL are really hoping to get Artest and Bender in there for McGrady. Think of the marketing! :D

:laugh:

I smell a photoshop bit....

JOneal7
06-16-2004, 06:07 PM
LMAO@ron jon surf shops..hahaha

sweabs
06-16-2004, 07:07 PM
But I truly believe we need Ron to go to the Finals. I think that he defense in integral in maintaining our own good defense. Trading for McGrady is fine, but giving up on defense is hard to do.

You do not ever trade defense for offense, especially when he is the DPOY and scares the living hell out of his opponents.

Well said...exactly how I feel.

I don't know how I will react if we lose Ron. He is what you want for a basketball player - every coach in the league wishes they could have 5 Ron Artest's on their team.

I just think that if we lose Ron, we may end up regretting it. Obviously Tracy is a talented player, but I would like to see Ron stay and instead bring in a well-respected SG - doesn't have to be a superstar like Tracy if that means losing Ron.

Anthem
06-17-2004, 02:45 AM
Hey Anthem, Suaveness & rabidpacersfans...

:finger:

:finger:

:finger:

One for each of you.

Great gravy but you can be a moron sometimes.

I haven't even been here in two weeks, I come on and this is the first thing I see?

What brought me into this conversation?

ROCislandWarrior
06-17-2004, 02:51 AM
Hey Anthem, Suaveness & rabidpacersfans...

:finger:

:finger:

:finger:

One for each of you.

Great gravy but you can be a moron sometimes.

I haven't even been here in two weeks, I come on and this is the first thing I see?

What brought me into this conversation?

Be sure to vote for BP in the Most Argumentative Poster thread :devil:

Suaveness
06-17-2004, 09:56 AM
Hey Anthem, Suaveness & rabidpacersfans...

:finger:

:finger:

:finger:

One for each of you.

Great gravy but you can be a moron sometimes.

I haven't even been here in two weeks, I come on and this is the first thing I see?

What brought me into this conversation?

Supporting Artest :rolleyes:

Unclebuck
05-03-2005, 11:14 AM
I'm sorry again, but I had to bump this thread. I swear I won't bump another thread

But remember how Bob Kravitiz came out recently or ever since 11/19 and said that he wanted rtest gone and that the Pacers franchise was stupid not to trade him. saying tradiong Artest last summer was a necessary move and an obvious decision.

Well, reading this column of his from last June he seems to not want to trade artest. - Here is what he says

--------------------------------------------------------------------
So it's like this: Start with Al Harrington ($6.3 million), who will get traded in the media no fewer than 50 times this summer. Then it's an issue of deciding who that second player might be.

Jonathan Bender ($6.5 million)? That would be my preference, but it might not be Orlando's choice.

Ron Artest ($6.2 million)? That would be hard to swallow, but for McGrady, it's a deal I'd make, however grudgingly.
__________________________________________________ __________________

grace
05-03-2005, 11:25 AM
I never have and never will give one flying :censored: what that little piece of poo :kravitz: has to say.

naptownmenace
05-03-2005, 11:40 AM
In hindsight, I sure wish the Pacers would've made that trade.

I like... no I love Artest's talent but I can't stand his attitude and off-court antics. They also had to opportunity to get Shawn Marion in a similar two player deal. They probably could've moved Austin and Ron together. Sigh. :sad:

Harmonica
05-03-2005, 11:46 AM
In hindsight, I sure wish the Pacers would've made that trade.

They would've made the trade, except Orlando didn't bite.

Watching McGrady against Dallas makes me wish all the more that we could have struck a deal. The guy is phenomenal to watch; grace under pressure.

indygeezer
05-03-2005, 12:55 PM
Man........reading this thread is REALLY depressing.


I need a drink


:buddies:

Bball
05-03-2005, 01:22 PM
They would've made the trade, except Orlando didn't bite.

Watching McGrady against Dallas makes me wish all the more that we could have struck a deal. The guy is phenomenal to watch; grace under pressure.

I wonder how hard the Pacers tried to get a deal done? Any idea? Was it a phone call and wait... or intense negotiations... or somewhere in between?

IOW, did they aggressively pursue a deal or did they just cast a line in the water and hope for a bite?

-Bball

PHC Fan
05-03-2005, 01:22 PM
I'm sorry again, but I had to bump this thread. I swear I won't bump another thread

But remember how Bob Kravitiz came out recently or ever since 11/19 and said that he wanted rtest gone and that the Pacers franchise was stupid not to trade him. saying tradiong Artest last summer was a necessary move and an obvious decision.

Well, reading this column of his from last June he seems to not want to trade artest. - Here is what he says

--------------------------------------------------------------------
So it's like this: Start with Al Harrington ($6.3 million), who will get traded in the media no fewer than 50 times this summer. Then it's an issue of deciding who that second player might be.

Jonathan Bender ($6.5 million)? That would be my preference, but it might not be Orlando's choice.

Ron Artest ($6.2 million)? That would be hard to swallow, but for McGrady, it's a deal I'd make, however grudgingly.
__________________________________________________ __________________
More thread-bumping! Ugh. It's official, the board has gone in offseason mode!!!! :( :o :cool:

Harmonica
05-03-2005, 02:16 PM
I wonder how hard the Pacers tried to get a deal done? Any idea? Was it a phone call and wait... or intense negotiations... or somewhere in between?

IOW, did they aggressively pursue a deal or did they just cast a line in the water and hope for a bite?

-Bball

Well, if I remember correctly, Donnie and one of the Simons flew down to Orlando and met with Weisbrod. I think that's a pretty serious attempt.