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Basketball Fan
07-22-2008, 11:18 PM
This time WNBA players

http://sports.yahoo.com/wnba/recap?gid=20080722010&prov=ap


Late scuffle mars Sparks win over ShockPreview | Box Score | Recap
1 hour, 8 minutes ago

Buzz Up Print
Detroit Shock's Plenette Piers…

AP - Jul 22, 8:14 pm EDT

Los Angeles Sparks' Lisa Lesli…

AP - Jul 22, 8:13 pm EDT 1 of 2 WNBA Gallery AUBURN HILLS, Mich. (AP)—Candace Parker scored 21 points and DeLisha Milton-Jones added 19 before both were ejected after a scuffle in the final minute as the Los Angeles Sparks held on to beat the Detroit Shock 84-81 Tuesday night.

The game turned ugly in the final seconds as a collision between Parker and Detroit’s Plenette Pierson turned into a shoving match that saw players and coaches from both teams leave the bench.

Shock assistant coach Rick Mahorn, who was involved in the Pistons-Pacers brawl on Nov. 19, 2004, as a Detroit broadcaster trying to break up the fight, appeared to shove Lisa Leslie to the floor at one point.

Parker, Milton-Jones, Pierson and Mahorn were all ejected, while Detroit’s Cheryl Ford left the floor on a wheelchair after getting injured while trying to restrain Pierson.

Detroit rallied from 21 down but missed a chance to win the game in the final 2 minutes. The Shock have now lost two straight at home after starting the season 10-0 at the Palace of Auburn Hills.

Leslie finished with 10 points for Los Angeles, which swept the two-game season series.


Los Angeles Sparks' Candace Pa…

AP - Jul 22, 8:14 pm EDT
Olympic teammate Katie Smith led the Shock with 20 points.

Detroit had a chance to go ahead in the final 90 seconds when Alexis Hornbuckle stripped the ball away from Parker, her former college teammate at Tennessee. Deanna Nolan, though, lost control of the ball on what could have been a go-ahead layup, then missed a defended jumper.

Leslie hit a short jumper as the shot clock expired, moving Los Angeles’ advantage to 80-77 with 17 seconds left, then knocked a key rebound away from Nolan with 8 seconds to go.

After the lengthy delay following the scuffle, Smith hit a 3-pointer to make it 82-81 with 2.3 seconds left, but Keisha Brown clinched the game from the line.

The Shock trailed 42-21 in the second quarter as they struggled to guard Parker. The rookie had 15 points in the half on 6-of-9 shooting despite constant attention from the defense.

Detroit, though, was able to take control of the game on the boards in the third quarter, and cut the margin to 57-49 on Smith’s 3-pointer late in the period.

The Sparks took a 62-52 lead into the fourth, but the Shock pulled within five on Hornbuckle’s 3-pointer with 4:46 to play.




Here's the clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uwo8hqKM3s

Brian
07-22-2008, 11:21 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/wnba/recap?gid=20080722010&prov=ap


AUBURN HILLS, Mich. (AP)—Candace Parker scored 21 points and DeLisha Milton-Jones added 19 before both were ejected after a scuffle in the final minute as the Los Angeles Sparks held on to beat the Detroit Shock 84-81 Tuesday night.

The game turned ugly in the final seconds as a collision between Parker and Detroit’s Plenette Pierson turned into a shoving match that saw players and coaches from both teams leave the bench.

Shock assistant coach Rick Mahorn, who was involved in the Pistons-Pacers brawl on Nov. 19, 2004, as a Detroit broadcaster trying to break up the fight, appeared to shove Lisa Leslie to the floor at one point.

Parker, Milton-Jones, Pierson and Mahorn were all ejected, while Detroit’s Cheryl Ford left the floor on a wheelchair after getting injured while trying to restrain Pierson.

Detroit rallied from 21 down but missed a chance to win the game in the final 2 minutes. The Shock have now lost two straight at home after starting the season 10-0 at the Palace of Auburn Hills.

Leslie finished with 10 points for Los Angeles, which swept the two-game season series.


Los Angeles Sparks' Candace Pa…

AP - Jul 22, 8:14 pm EDT
Olympic teammate Katie Smith led the Shock with 20 points.

Detroit had a chance to go ahead in the final 90 seconds when Alexis Hornbuckle stripped the ball away from Parker, her former college teammate at Tennessee. Deanna Nolan, though, lost control of the ball on what could have been a go-ahead layup, then missed a defended jumper.

Leslie hit a short jumper as the shot clock expired, moving Los Angeles’ advantage to 80-77 with 17 seconds left, then knocked a key rebound away from Nolan with 8 seconds to go.

After the lengthy delay following the scuffle, Smith hit a 3-pointer to make it 82-81 with 2.3 seconds left, but Keisha Brown clinched the game from the line.

The Shock trailed 42-21 in the second quarter as they struggled to guard Parker. The rookie had 15 points in the half on 6-of-9 shooting despite constant attention from the defense.

Detroit, though, was able to take control of the game on the boards in the third quarter, and cut the margin to 57-49 on Smith’s 3-pointer late in the period.

The Sparks took a 62-52 lead into the fourth, but the Shock pulled within five on Hornbuckle’s 3-pointer with 4:46 to play.

gummy
07-22-2008, 11:24 PM
I don't know what his intentions were but he sure did put both hands on her and she went flying to the floor.

indyman37
07-22-2008, 11:27 PM
I really hope Cheryl Ford's injury isn't serious. I'd hate to see someone trying to prevent more fighting getting badly hurt.

Kstat
07-22-2008, 11:30 PM
That was a frustrating game to watch. It was very easy to see the smallest little thing touching off a meelee, and it did. The referees did their level best job to **** off everyone as much as possible. I think they set a record for reversing good calls into bad ones in the 4th quarter and totally missing several cheap shots that they had no business missing.

I was sorry to see Cheryl tear her knee up trying to play peacemaker, but she should never have been allowed back on the court after the first injury. Laimbeer is totally at fault for that.

And Lisa Leslie is a joke. She gets pushed out of the pile, takes a little fall and spends the next 10 minutes crying her eyes out on the bench and whining about how mahorn shoved her. She spent half her postgame interview whining about how she's a mother and a role model and she shouldn't have been pushed, whatever.

It was a joke how Ford was being carted off with a torn knee keeping a straight face while Leslie was shedding tears over a bruised butt. Drama queen.

My only condolence is that two of LA's three best players will be suspended a while for this.

idioteque
07-22-2008, 11:35 PM
And again unnecessary aggression by the Detroit team set it off. Big surprise. Good to see they're still keeping it classy up there.

GrangerRanger
07-22-2008, 11:36 PM
Shouldn't this be moved to the WNBA thread? It has enough cobwebs as it is. :(

Kstat
07-22-2008, 11:36 PM
And again unnecessary aggression by the Detroit team set it off. Big surprise. Good to see they're still keeping it classy up there.

Candace Parker spent the better part of the end half taking little cheap shots at several players. This wasn't even close to being all on the Shock.

Her little takedown of Pearson after the FT was what started it. She's a spoiled brat.

travmil
07-22-2008, 11:39 PM
Can we add a new forum award for least surprising post of the year. I knew as soon as I saw this that kstat would be here trying to convince everyone that Detroit is the victim here.

Kstat
07-22-2008, 11:41 PM
Can we add a new forum award for least surprising post of the year. I knew as soon as I saw this that kstat would be here trying to convince everyone that Detroit is the victim here.

Actually, the least surprising post was the initial one.

I never said they were the victim. I'm simply saying they aren't the villain.

I'm beyond irritated with LA's drama acting, trying to play the innocent victim.

-Parker taking little shots during the game and running away as fast as she can.

-Leslie taking a lighter fall than most of us do at the YMCA and then crying her eyes out trying to draw attention to herself when another player was ACTUALLY injured.

-Milton-Jones throwing a sucker-punch at Mahorn's back, and then doing her best Candace impersonation and running away when Mahorn turned around.

Did the Shock want to go at it with the Sparks? Oh yeah. But LA wasn't exactly nice either.

Moses
07-22-2008, 11:59 PM
Wait a minute, you mean there is a Womans NBA? :D

I saw the clip and couldn't believe Mahorn pushed a player.

ajbry
07-23-2008, 12:02 AM
In my book, Candace Parker can do whatever the hell she wants, she's the Beyonce of the WNBA.

This whole thing would've been hilarious if Ford didn't injure herself.

Kstat
07-23-2008, 12:04 AM
In my book, Candace Parker can do whatever the hell she wants, she's the Beyonce of the WNBA.


I'm ok with that opinion. She is pretty.

The problem is, Candace Parker thinks the same thing.

...if she wants to keep her face pretty, she probably shouldn't be goading other players that are big enough to kick her ***.

ajbry
07-23-2008, 12:06 AM
As someone who watched this thing happen in real-time, kstat, can you fill the rest of us in on the precise roles everyone played?

Who was Ben Wallace? Ron Artest? Steve Jack? Ben Wallace's fat brother?

Shade
07-23-2008, 12:07 AM
That was the most exciting two minutes of WNBA basketball I've ever seen.

LG33
07-23-2008, 12:09 AM
This was more like the NY / Denver brawl. Sub-par entertainment. Not enough druggys.

Natston
07-23-2008, 12:13 AM
That was the most exciting two minutes of WNBA basketball I've ever seen.

That was the only two minutes of WNBA basketball I've ever seen.

Kstat
07-23-2008, 12:14 AM
As someone who watched this thing happen in real-time, kstat, can you fill the rest of us in on the precise roles everyone played?

Who was Ben Wallace? Ron Artest? Steve Jack? Ben Wallace's fat brother?

the incident that preceded the incident (Artest) was definitely Cheryl Ford ripping the ball out of Parker's hands after the foul. Still not sure why Parker got so hot about it. It isn't like she was getting shoved.

The incident that touched it off (Wallace) was Parker taking down Pearson after the FT. Again, she couldn't just came out and hit her, she had to pull her to the ground and make it look like they got tangled up.

The one that came in ready to fight (Jax) Was Pearson. It took three shock players to pull her back from dismembering Candace Parker.

the Ben Wallace's fat brother award goes to Milton-Jones, who sucker-punched Mahorn from behind.

Of course, his brother didn't leave a smoke trail in the other direction after he threw his punches, but to be fair he also didn't throw a punch at a guy Mahorn's size...

Hicks
07-23-2008, 12:15 AM
Those poor Detroit players. :rolleyes: They work on being the tough girls of the league, but then it's not their fault when things escalate. No, sir. Blame the other team.

FerengiMiller
07-23-2008, 12:17 AM
Sure ain't gonna get much better than this!!
AHAHAHAHHAHA


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http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0722/wnba_ap_shock_fight_412.jpg


Lisa Leslie: Ahh no I'm Lisa Leslie I just had a baby.. don't push me Mahoorrrrrnnnnnn!

Rick Mahorn: Shut up b***h! I'm the the assistant head coach of the Detroit Shock!

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/1351431.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1939057D9939C83F10648C86D6F6DCDA60D 5A5397277B4DC33E

Indiana Fever Head Coach, Lin Dunn's Response: I'm gonna eat Bill Laimbeer for breakfast and make a knock out on Karl Malones daughter!

Kstat
07-23-2008, 12:19 AM
Those poor Detroit players. :rolleyes: They work on being the tough girls of the league, but then it's not their fault when things escalate. No, sir. Blame the other team.

"What? A fight broke out at the Palace? It must be the Detroit players. It MUST be them! I don't even need to see what happened, my mind is already made up!" :rolleyes:

ChicagoJ
07-23-2008, 12:20 AM
My wife just asked, "how are the Pacers going to get blamed for this?"

Bball
07-23-2008, 12:23 AM
My wife just asked, "how are the Pacers going to get blamed for this?"

Blamed? They won't... but their name and the original brawl will be brought up often in the articles about this.

-Bball

ChicagoJ
07-23-2008, 12:24 AM
I dunno.

I'll bet the Pacers start the season with at least one suspended player because of this.

tora tora
07-23-2008, 12:35 AM
The WNBA is irrelevant anyway. What's with all the emotions? It's hysterical.

CableKC
07-23-2008, 12:52 AM
There must be something in that Detroit water that brings out the worst in Basketball players....male or female.

grace
07-23-2008, 02:12 AM
There must be something in that Detroit water that brings out the worst in Basketball players....male or female.

Yes, it's called Bill Laimbeer and Rick Mahorn.

However, I can't really complain that Lisa Leslie ended up on her rear end. I can't stand her almost as much as I can't stand Ruth Riley.

I think it was all staged to make the world fear the USA team during the Olympics. :flex:

dewman_32
07-23-2008, 06:24 AM
Not having a "team" in this because it's the WNBA and I don't follow it, it doesn't surprise me one iota that kstat is here defending yet another Detroit team when there is no defense. As an impartial observer, I'll make the following statements:

- The refs completely lost control of this game. They shouldn't have let things get anywhere close to the point they got to (sound familiar)

- What was Cheryl Ford thinking? The whistle had blown and the play was over, but she kept playing and ripped the ball away. This was the start of the fighting. The instigator - Cheryl Ford.

- Pierson should have been called for a foul on the "box out/clipping" move on the FT attempt.

- Parker reacted in an appropriate manner (as any one in that situation most likely would). Pierson again charges Parker and yet again, Parker reacts appropriately as most players would in that situation.

- There is no justification for what Rick Mahorn did, period. His arms should have been held out to his sides if he's trying to play peacemaker. There was no reason whatsoever for his arms to be in front of him or to shove any player at all. He should be banned from the WNBA for at least a year, if not more.

*removed* His indefensible defense of the actions of Detroit players and coaches in yet one more altercation at the Palace is shameful at the very least. *removed*

Vince Neil
07-23-2008, 07:16 AM
"What? A fight broke out at the Palace? It must be the Detroit players. It MUST be them! I don't even need to see what happened, my mind is already made up!" :rolleyes:


I agree.

Hicks
07-23-2008, 10:04 AM
"What? A fight broke out at the Palace? It must be the Detroit players. It MUST be them! I don't even need to see what happened, my mind is already made up!" :rolleyes:

Already watched the video before I commented, chief. LA's no innocent bystander either, but to put it all on them is homerism at its best.

Kstat
07-23-2008, 10:08 AM
Already watched the video before I commented, chief. LA's no innocent bystander either, but to put it all on them is homerism at its best.

...except I didn't, and I've said that many times.

Basically you prejudged me without reading through what I said. Nice.

And if you only watched the video, you didn't see all the little incidents that led up to this, so again you don't know what you're talking about.

I said they were both equally at fault. I guess I'm a homer for not throwing everything on the Shock. So be it, but don't try to say that I'm the lone person here with an impartiality issue.

Hicks
07-23-2008, 10:13 AM
I think you're just seeing what you want to see, both with the fight and the posts made here, but maybe that's just me. Enjoy spinning the fight to yourself because few will stick around to discuss it with you.

Kstat
07-23-2008, 10:15 AM
I think you're just seeing what you want to see, both with the fight and the posts made here, but maybe that's just me. Enjoy spinning the fight to yourself because few will stick around to discuss it with you.

I'm "spinning it" and putting blame on both sides.

You're being "realistic" in putting everything that happened on Detroit, despite not even watching the entire thing.

Gotta love making up your own reality as you go along. Nice job, if you can get it...

edc
07-23-2008, 11:30 AM
Wow Rick Mahorn.......Your name will be played at talk shows.... :laugh:

NuffSaid
07-23-2008, 11:47 AM
Oh, that's just great! But now, get this...

Title for Pacers/Pistons used words like "brawl" and "malee", but when the ladies fight it's called "a spirited win". :rolleyes:

Gotta love political correctness. :p

Good news is no fans imposed their will on the game nor got clobbered. :box:

Basketball Fan
07-23-2008, 12:19 PM
Have to say both sides were at fault here although the great irony is that Ford fouled Parker and then when a fight took place and she tried to break it up she hurt herself.

One would think the daughter of Karl Malone would be the one throwing elbows...

That being said I'm not all that sympathetic over Lisa Leslie here to the point I'm not outrage that Rick shoved her. However it wasn't that bad I think LL sold that one.


Of course this means Rick Mahorn is history. This isn't the same as Pistons/Pacers that involved fans this is just a brawl which happens to be in the same place as the other one.

duke dynamite
07-23-2008, 12:34 PM
The WNBA is irrelevant anyway. What's with all the emotions? It's hysterical.
No no no. WNBA basketball is good basketball. It holds me over until the NBA season starts!

The fight? Not enjoyable one bit. I never like seeing stuff like this. It just goes to show you that these girls are in it to win it just like the guys.

On the bright side, maybe Detroit will lose some games now. Then the Fever can step it up and gain some momentum.

Shade
07-23-2008, 12:35 PM
If this thread has proven nothing else, it is that there is still a lot of animosity over the one, true Brawl.

Shade
07-23-2008, 12:36 PM
No no no. This is good basketball. It holds me over until the NBA season starts!

Anyway, maybe Detroit will lose some games now. Then the Fever can step it up and gain some momentum.

The Fever have no chance. Lin Dunn is the female coaching equivalent of Dan Dakich.

pwee31
07-23-2008, 12:36 PM
Detriot is getting good at starting brawls in a last minutes/seconds of a game they're losing to a team that's a threat

Bball
07-23-2008, 12:42 PM
I dunno.

I'll bet the Pacers start the season with at least one suspended player because of this.

Bird has already called the main office apologizing for Tinsley's role in this and offering him up for a suspension without pay.

-Bball

Shade
07-23-2008, 12:44 PM
Bird has already called the main office apologizing for Tinsley's role in this and offering him up for a suspension without pay.

-Bball

Maybe one of us could goad Tinsely into rushing the stands at Conseco this season. He'd already be pretty close coming straight off the bench. Just hide the dustpans first.

gummy
07-23-2008, 01:02 PM
Candace Parker spent the better part of the end half taking little cheap shots at several players. This wasn't even close to being all on the Shock.

Her little takedown of Pearson after the FT was what started it. She's a spoiled brat.

Kstat I agree that there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides. The game was chippy the whole time.

But did you not see Pearson shove her *** into Candace before the "takedown" (which looked to me as if they were both trying to get the leverage to make sure they came out on top)? That did not look at all like a routine box out to me. I have a friend whose knee was seriously injured on a play like that, so I can understand being pissed off. :mad:

gummy
07-23-2008, 01:07 PM
The WNBA is irrelevant anyway. What's with all the emotions? It's hysterical.

Yeah, sure. No one gets emotional in any game men play in. :rolleyes:

Since86
07-23-2008, 01:13 PM
Actually, the least surprising post was the initial one.

I never said they were the victim. I'm simply saying they aren't the villain.

I'm beyond irritated with LA's drama acting, trying to play the innocent victim.

-Parker taking little shots during the game and running away as fast as she can.

-Leslie taking a lighter fall than most of us do at the YMCA and then crying her eyes out trying to draw attention to herself when another player was ACTUALLY injured.

-Milton-Jones throwing a sucker-punch at Mahorn's back, and then doing her best Candace impersonation and running away when Mahorn turned around.

Did the Shock want to go at it with the Sparks? Oh yeah. But LA wasn't exactly nice either.

This is the problem. Your last line says that the Shock has part of the blame coming, yet the rest of the post is all about the Sparks and what they did wrong.

That's why everyone looks at you as an apologist for Det. teams. You will list everything on the other team, then throw in a few hard words against Det. and you think you're being unbiased, or atleast fair.

Jonathan
07-23-2008, 01:14 PM
This was more of a baseball fight than a Brawl. It is an insult to Step Jack, Ron Ron, Jermaine, & Tinlsey to call this a brawl!

Kstat
07-23-2008, 01:17 PM
This is the problem. Your last line says that the Shock has part of the blame coming, yet the rest of the post is all about the Sparks and what they did wrong.

That's why everyone looks at you as an apologist for Det. teams. You will list everything on the other team, then throw in a few hard words against Det. and you think you're being unbiased, or atleast fair.

...because everyone else spent their time picking out everything Detroit was doing wrong. I didn't really have to.

if I hadn't posted, you'd never even know there was another team involved at all.

I pointed out the things LA did that i didn't like. I never said they were mostly at fault.

travmil
07-23-2008, 01:34 PM
Did anyone see what Laimbeer said about Mahorn?

"Rick Mahorn is known as a peacemaker, from even the brawl we had here with Indiana," Detroit coach Bill Laimbeer said. "He went out there to get people off the pile, and to get people to stop the confrontation. That's who he is, that's what he does."

That is the most hilariously inaccurate homerish rose colored quote I have ever read and that's saying something when you have Kstat around.

Kstat
07-23-2008, 01:37 PM
Michael Cooper also said Mahorn was in there playing peacemaker, and he hates Mahorn with a passion.

Obviously he's not known for it, but he was last night.

Suaveness
07-23-2008, 01:41 PM
If this thread has proven nothing else, it is that there is still a lot of animosity over the one, true Brawl.


**** you.

Suaveness
07-23-2008, 01:42 PM
Blamed? They won't... but their name and the original brawl will be brought up often in the articles about this.

-Bball


Funny enough, when they showed this on the front page of yahoo, underneath it read "Find more about Pistons-Pacers brawl"

Since86
07-23-2008, 01:50 PM
...because everyone else spent their time picking out everything Detroit was doing wrong. I didn't really have to.

if I hadn't posted, you'd never even know there was another team involved at all.

I pointed out the things LA did that i didn't like. I never said they were mostly at fault.

Exactly, so you come into the thread and start defending the Shock and start listing what LA did wrong.

You can't play the, "but I'm being fair card," because you're not being fair. You take offense to what they're doing, by listing Det's faults, but then do the exact same thing in listing LA's faults.

Admittingly, I've not seen anything on it but maybe the last 15secs. I don't know what started it, who started it, what happened before, or after, nothing. I'm completely blind on the subject.

If you say you're going to be fair, and you're looking at it objectively, then list things objectively. Who cares if someone has already said it? If you don't want to take the time to list them, then quote someone and say that you agree, then add your list.

As far as everyone here ganging up on Det. is that really a shock? (no pun intended) There are still harsh feelings when it comes to your city from Pacer fans. Admittingly, I still have them but I haven't seen anything on it, so I'm refraining from giving my two cents on the actual event.

grace
07-23-2008, 03:25 PM
The Fever have no chance. Lin Dunn is the female coaching equivalent of Dan Dakich.


No, Dakich did the best he could with the crappy hand he was dealt. Dunn on the other hand took what on paper is a title contending team and made them into a bunch of ninnies who can't beat an expansion team.

grace
07-23-2008, 03:32 PM
The Detroit Free Press isn't doing much to support the theory that Rick Mahorn is a peacemaker.

The picture is from the AP, but I would assume the caption was at least approved by someone at the Free Press.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=C4&Date=20080722&Category=SPORTS04&ArtNo=807220807&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=11



Shock assistant coach Rick Mahorn, center, pushes Sparks center Lisa Leslie to the ground during a melee late in the fourth quarter at the Palace on Tuesday. Mahorn was attempting to keep Leslie from approaching the Shock bench during a bench-clearing fight in which four were ejected.

grace
07-23-2008, 05:47 PM
http://www.wnba.com/shock/news/ford_080723.html


Detroit Shock’s Cheryl Ford To Miss Remainder of 2008 WNBA Season With Right Knee Injury


Auburn Hills, MI – The Detroit Shock announced today that 2007 WNBA All-Star Game MVP and 2003 WNBA Rookie of the Year Cheryl Ford will miss the remainder of the regular season due to a right knee ACL tear. The injury was diagnosed following an MRI administered Wednesday morning.

Ford suffered the injury at home versus Los Angeles on July 22 while coming down from grabbing a rebound with 2:06 left to play in the fourth quarter.

Ford, who had micro-fracture surgery on her left knee this past off season has appeared in 24 games this season averaging 10.1 points, 8.7 rebounds and 1.0 seals in 26.3 minutes per game.

Kegboy
07-23-2008, 08:38 PM
Just like the real brawl, the refs aren't getting nearly enough blame. They're the true villians here.

And I don't give a crap if Mahorn did push Leslie. She was trying to escalate the fight, Mahorn was doing what any coach should do and keep that from happening.

gummy
07-23-2008, 08:47 PM
Just like the real brawl, the refs aren't getting nearly enough blame. They're the true villians here.

And I don't give a crap if Mahorn did push Leslie. She was trying to escalate the fight, Mahorn was doing what any coach should do and keep that from happening.

I took her at her word when she said she was going over to remove Parker from the pile...

But even if that's not the case I'm not sure allowing coaches to put their hands on opposing players in this way is a peachy precendent to establish. If he had put his arms around her to restrain her that would be one thing, but shoving is just a step down from slapping or punching. It's an aggressive action rather than a defensive action or a "cool down" gesture. I don't know what his intentions were - it's quite possible he meant to play peacemaker - but what he actually did escalated the situation. Milton-Jones saw it and felt that Leslie needed to be protected from him, so she hit him.

Kstat
07-23-2008, 09:22 PM
Amen, Whitlock.

http://msn.foxsports.com/wnba/story/8371636/Don't-make-Mahorn-the-bad-boy-in-WNBA-scuffle#


Don't make Mahorn the bad boy in WNBA scuffle
by Jason Whitlock
Jason Whitlock brings his edgy and thought-provoking style to FOXSports.com. Columnist for the Kansas City Star, he has won the National Journalism Award for Commentary for "his ability to seamlessly integrate sports and social commentary and to challenge widely held assumptions along the racial divide."

Updated: July 23, 2008, 3:28 PM EST
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Calling it a brawl is inaccurate and stupid. Saying Rick Mahorn shoved Lisa Leslie to the floor is dishonest and mean-spirited.

Tuesday night's nationally televised Sparks-Shock shoving match was a portrait of equality.

Melee in the WNBA
WNBA rookie Candace Parker has already earned attention for her dunks. Now she'll get more after being part of a fight that led to four ejections. Check out pics of the fracas. More from the fight:

* VIDEO: See the Sparks-Shock fight
* WNBA reviewing tape from fight
* Fight mars end of Sparks-Shock game

No one ever said equality was always perfect and gentle and positive. Equality was contaminated by the same forbidden fruit as everything else. There is no reason to act surprised that a bunch of women would lose their temper on a basketball court and resort to the same kind of emotional stupidity that afflicts men.

The WNBA has been calling for next for at least a decade, and this is what goes along with running with the big dogs. You occasionally get bitten.

I don't want to hear anymore whining from Leslie about her slip and fall to the ground after 300-pound Rick Mahorn walked toward her and extended his arms in an attempt to keep her away from the skirmish between and around Candace Parker and Plenette Pierson.

"I don't even know why (Mahorn) was pushing me down," said Leslie, who called herself a role model and mommy during an overdone postgame interview. "I wasn't swinging or hitting anybody. I was just going to help my teammate up."

On a basketball court, Leslie is a 6-foot-5 center, and that fact trumps being a role model and mommy when a tussle breaks out.

There's no reason for anyone to pretend that Mahorn, the former Pistons enforcer, committed some sort of domestic-violence felony. Mahorn's gender should play no role in the WNBA's evaluation of Tuesday's fracas, which led to four ejections, including Mahorn's.

He committed a misdemeanor. The league should treat Mahorn like he got busted driving 72 miles per hour in a 65-mph zone. Give him and the other "combatants" a ticket, sit 'em down for a game and move on.

"I was trying to protect the whole game, the integrity of the game," Mahorn told the media after the game. "I would never push a woman. This game, I love this game too much."

Mahorn is justifiably scared to death. We are so politically correct and dishonest about the way we judge male-female conflict of any kind that he can't afford to say what he really thinks.

He reacted instinctively to prevent the scrap from escalating. Leslie, intimidated by his size, backpedaled and fell when Mahorn gently pushed her. Mahorn should avoid speaking in absolutes. We know he would push a woman because there's footage of him gently pushing Lisa Leslie. And if a woman attacked one of his four daughters, we can assume Mahorn would at the very least push the female attacker.

He doesn't need to apologize for his behavior Tuesday night or get defensive about it.

Leslie and all the other women on the court signed up for basketball equality. Leslie was treated like an athlete at The Palace. Not a mommy or role model. Just a basketball player.

And this was nothing like the Pacers-Pistons "Malice at the Palace" in 2004. I've watched the video a dozen times on ESPN and YouTube. Were there any real punches landed? Someone on the Sparks tapped Mahorn on the back a couple of times. Mahorn barely noticed.

None of the players went into the stands. And none of the spectators threw anything on the court or at the players.

It was a sweaty pillow fight in shorts and tank tops.

Is it good publicity for a league looking for relevancy?

Only if you believe all publicity is good publicity. I don't subscribe to that theory. No one watches basketball (or baseball) for the fights. The scuffles are a turnoff. I'm no more likely to watch the next Sparks-Shock game than I was before Tuesday's dustup.

This isn't hockey. I used to make a point to watch the Red Wings and Avalanche play back when their feud was more heated and violent than the Hatfields and the McCoys.

Basketball is different. It's still a finesse game.

This was bad publicity that will lead to a bunch of Don Imus jokes. Let's hope the league doesn't overreact and treat Mahorn in a way that signals the WNBA has no real understanding of true equality.

Basketball Fan
07-23-2008, 10:43 PM
I cannot stand Jason ****lock but he raises some good points here. The USA team also saw this

Here's Kobe's reaction to the Sparks fight

http://www.contracostatimes.com/california/ci_9975530


Kobe Bryant reacts to Sparks fight
By Ramona Shelburne, Staff Writer
Article Launched: 07/23/2008 06:08:09 PM PDT


So guess who pays attention to women's basketball?
Apparently, Kobe Bryant and the US men's basketball team.

Speaking with reporters in Las Vegas today, Bryant said he jumped up when he saw the highlights of the Sparks-Detroit Shock brawl on ESPN last night.

The brawl began when Detroit's Plenette Pierson got tangled up with the Sparks' Candace Parker. Parker fell to the ground, Pierson aggressively tried to walk over her, Parker pulled Pierson down and all heck broke loose at the Palace.

"Candace is going to be a target. She's an incredible player," Bryant said. "I think it's good for her that she didn't back down and I think it's good for her teammates to step in there."

Brian
07-23-2008, 10:58 PM
Meh,I always thought that Detroit basketball prided themselves on being "tough,hard nosed players",But they seem to be the only city that once it boils over into a fight they are ready to blame everyone but themselves.


But who am I to judge?,Im just a pacers fan.

Gamble1
07-23-2008, 10:58 PM
Is this posting purgatory. I mean this is the WNBA and yes Kstat you are wrong that is all.

Kuq_e_Zi91
07-24-2008, 07:16 AM
I just feel bad for Cheryl Ford. Her season is over because she tried to calm down Pierson. Not just the season, but playoffs too. Big price to pay for trying to be peacemaker.

IMO, Pierson is to blame by knocking Parker down and then trying to walk over her. I mean, did she think Candace was just gonna lay there and take that? Then it's basically her fault the Shock won't have Ford for the rest of the year.

I think that's the story here, not Mahorn and Leslie, or that it involved the League's superstar Candace Parker. But the fact the Shock will lose an achor in Cheryl Ford for the rest of the season and playoffs because of Pierson not being able to control her emotions.

idioteque
07-24-2008, 10:53 AM
I just feel bad for Cheryl Ford. Her season is over because she tried to calm down Pierson. Not just the season, but playoffs too. Big price to pay for trying to be peacemaker.



Actually I think they're saying now the ACL tore with like 2:06 to go in the game and she shouldn't have ever been put back in the line up.

Kstat
07-24-2008, 11:25 AM
Yeah, their coaching and medical staff are the reason she's out for good. She had no business being on the floor.

Kstat
07-24-2008, 11:25 AM
The Shock signed Nancy Lieberman today.

Yes, I said 50-year old Nancy Lieberman.

Gyron
07-24-2008, 12:38 PM
Is that Senator Joe Lieberman's Wife? She's about the right age......

travmil
07-24-2008, 12:39 PM
The Shock signed Nancy Lieberman today.

Yes, I said 50-year old Nancy Lieberman.

I just saw this on ESPNNews. Gotta do what ya gotta do I guess. Do you think it's publicity or do you think they think she can help. I would find it hard to believe that there weren't better options to bring in.

Kuq_e_Zi91
07-24-2008, 02:08 PM
Damn, Cheryl Ford went back out to play with a torn ACL? I can only imagine what she was thinking as she saw the brawl start to happen, knowing she only had one good leg. My respect for her just went up so much.

Is Lieberman going to play tonight? I read the article on ESPN as well, and they're saying she's in good shape. It's televised too, she might just do it for the publicity.

Sandman21
07-24-2008, 02:25 PM
Suspensions are out, and not surprisingly, Laimbeer is crying over it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/wnba/news/story?id=3503435

Oh, and the Pacers get mentioned in the article too...

Trader Joe
07-24-2008, 02:48 PM
The melee at The Palace in suburban Detroit -- where the infamous brawl between the Pistons, Indiana Pacers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=ind) and fans was in 2004 -- broke out with 4.6 seconds left in a game won by the Sparks.

Gotta love that press.

Shade
07-24-2008, 02:54 PM
Shock forward Plenette Pierson was suspended Thursday for four games, the harshest penalty, for initiating and escalating the altercation.

Looks like the media, at least, is putting primary blame on Detroit for initiating the brawl.

Shade
07-24-2008, 02:54 PM
Gotta love that press.

:shakehead

Gyron
07-24-2008, 03:10 PM
What on earth did the Indiana Pacers and the NBA brawl have to do with an on court fight and why did it get put into the article?

It's almost like they do it, just to **** with us cause they know we're watching for it.

grace
07-24-2008, 03:37 PM
I think Milton-Jones should have gotten more than one game for being dumb enough to hit Rick Mahorn.

Detroit is bringing back a former coach to play for the team while their players are suspended. Exactly why didn't the Pacers to that with Larry Bird when then only had 6 available players after their suspensions?

Other than Cheryl Ford being out for the year I think LA and Detroit have no reason to gripe about anything. Their suspensions are being staggered. Stern didn't suspend David Harrison after the brawl (even though the DA saw fit to charge him) because he didn't want the Pacers to be able to stagger the suspensions. Jack a$$.

Kegboy
07-24-2008, 06:49 PM
Exactly why didn't the Pacers to that with Larry Bird when then only had 6 available players after their suspensions?

Yeah, he was only 47 at the time.

Bet we coulda signed Magic, too. :(

[edit] And for the record, Nancy's in much better shape than them, unless you count that "round is a shape" crap.

Kstat
07-24-2008, 10:21 PM
I just saw this on ESPNNews. Gotta do what ya gotta do I guess. Do you think it's publicity or do you think they think she can help. I would find it hard to believe that there weren't better options to bring in.

There weren't better options to bring in on 24 hours notice.

You have to remember, the WNBA takes a full month off after sunday for the olympics.

She got signed to a 2-game contract to fill a roster spot because of the suspensions. Not a huge deal.

She didn't look too bad tonight for a 50-year old. If you didn't see her face, you wouldn't know she was that old by watching her run out there. She's in great shape for her age.

The girls are making me proud tonight. Minus a large chunk of their team, they're beating Houston pretty handily.

travmil
07-24-2008, 11:09 PM
The girls are making me proud tonight. Minus a large chunk of their team, they're beating Houston pretty handily.

Wow, your girls must have had a crappy third quarter then because they are down by 23 now.

I actually ended up watching the whole second half of this. Detroit played badly but I don't know what they could even do with 8 players.

Kstat
07-24-2008, 11:34 PM
Yeah, they totally ran out of gas. they got killed 30-9 in the 3rd.

grace
07-25-2008, 01:29 PM
Detroit played badly but I don't know what they could even do with 8 players.

The Pacers almost won their first game after the brawl when they only had 6 (and one of those was John Edwards).

grace
07-25-2008, 01:38 PM
Laimbeer was on Dan Patrick's radio show today. I'm not about to listen to him whine, but if anyone else wants to have at it.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/streamingaudio/

Shade
07-26-2008, 10:15 PM
The Pacers almost won their first game after the brawl when they only had 6 (and one of those was John Edwards).

I don't even think Edwards played, either. :laugh:

Natston
07-27-2008, 01:18 AM
I don't even think Edwards played, either. :laugh:

Coach Rick Carlisle: [as John Edwards gets up to check in the first game after a Pacer gets in foul trouble, even though Coach Carlisle has benched him] Where are you going?

Coach Rick Carlisle: [John, puzzled, looks at him] Sit down.

John Edwards: You gotta have five out there!

Coach Rick Carlisle: Sit... down!

Referee: You need one more, coach.

Coach Rick Carlisle: My team's on the floor!