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View Full Version : Latest snippet on T-Mac from the Orlando Sentinel



Dukins
06-15-2004, 02:36 PM
The orlando sentinel thinks mcgrady will probably ask to be traded to a playoff team, that's the latest from them this morning, http://www.insidehoops.com/nba_rumors.shtml

Playoff teams:
East
1. Indiana- Most likely target- McGrady for Bender, Jones, Pollard, Pippen and the #3 is the rumor
2. Detroit- a possbility, but would TMac want to go to a team that just won the championship and risk not winning it next year. Too much of a risk.
3. New Jersey- TMac for Kmart is interesting, but do you want to build around KMart
4. Miami- I don't think they'd move Wade and they have nothing else worth considering
5. New Orleans- unless you want Mashburn, I don't see this happening
6. Milwaukee- nothing of value here
7. New York- A distinct possibility if New York is willing to move Marbury
8. Boston- Ainge won't sacrifice their future to become Orlando, they are better than Orlando. Plus TMac and Doc? I don't think so
West
1. Minesota- There is nothing here unless maybe Szczerbiak interests you.
2. The Lakers- I guess if Orlando is where Kobe wants to go, it could work.
3. San Antonio- Interesting. Lots of possibilities Ginoboli and 2 number ones could get it done
4. Sacramento- Peja anyone?
5. Dallas- A resigned Nash and Marquis Daniels would be fair
6. Memphis- Like San Antonio, many possibilities, and I bet West already has an offer on the table
7. Houston- Steve Francis in Orlando? I can see it now, the biching the migaines, the plantar fascieitis, the selfishness
8. Denver- I would do a deal for the Nuggets young guys like Skita and Nene. Carmelo is a possibility.

PacerStud
06-15-2004, 02:39 PM
That's quite a package they're talking about form the Pacers. Evidently, we have already traded Al to the Bulls. Almost interesting. Almost.

SkipperZ
06-15-2004, 02:41 PM
I would make that trade in a heartbeat, and i think im benders biggest fan.

i would just become a tiny magic fan as well.. honestly they become an instantly promising team if they do that deal.

Okafor or Howard
gooden/juwon
bender
freddie/deshawn
livingston or harris

not to mention their 3 second rounders. one of them has to turn out to be useable.

that is a team with a bright future. lose another 60 games and they can get a high draft pick next year too to get a real center. Or draft okafor or howard and pavel this year. or if the clippers do take livingston, take okafor and howard. i just think that trade would give them so many options.

sweabs
06-15-2004, 02:41 PM
That's quite a package they're talking about form the Pacers. Evidently, we have already traded Al to the Bulls. Almost interesting. Almost.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. However, I still don't see it happening. Just in my dreams :drool:

Dukins
06-15-2004, 02:42 PM
Took the words out of my mouth. I guess Al Harrington will be a done deal here.

It looks like Bulls: Pippen & #3

Pacers: Harrington



ANd then we trade those players and the number 3 for T-Mac. I like the deal. We are giving up alot to get a superstar. I think its worth it though.

leon
06-15-2004, 02:47 PM
We will have a heck of a starting five. Of course, they will have to play 48 minutes a night.

Shade
06-15-2004, 03:21 PM
Assuming Primoz is taken in the expansion draft:

C - Foster/???
PF - O'Neal/Croshere
SF - Artest/JJones
SG - McGrady/Miller
PG - Tinsley/Johnson/Brewer

That leaves us with NO BENCH. If we pick up some decent role-players, though, I'm okay with it. :)

Shade
06-15-2004, 03:23 PM
Btw, what happens if TMac opts out at the end of the season? :surprised:

Kstat
06-15-2004, 03:25 PM
Btw, what happens if TMac opts out at the end of the season? :surprised:

Obviously, any team trading for TMac would need certain "assurances" that TMac would sign an extension.

sweabs
06-15-2004, 03:26 PM
Like Shade pointed out - that trade would severely deplete our bench. Either Larry and DW would have to do one hell of a job drafting some promising players, or we cannot afford to lose all those guys.

MSA2CF
06-15-2004, 03:38 PM
Took the words out of my mouth. I guess Al Harrington will be a done deal here.

It looks like Bulls: Pippen & #3

Pacers: Harrington



ANd then we trade those players and the number 3 for T-Mac. I like the deal. We are giving up alot to get a superstar. I think its worth it though.

The first part: I like it.
The second part: I hate it.

Why not just keep the #3 and Pip?

Young
06-15-2004, 04:11 PM
Assuming Primoz is taken in the expansion draft:

C - Foster/???
PF - O'Neal/Croshere
SF - Artest/JJones
SG - McGrady/Miller
PG - Tinsley/Johnson/Brewer

That leaves us with NO BENCH. If we pick up some decent role-players, though, I'm okay with it. :)

Exactly.

I think that if Indiana could get T-Mac to tell Orlanod, trade me to Indiana for say Harrington/Pollard/Future 1rst Round Pick or i'll walk after playing here.

But if we were to lost our bench i'm sure we would fill it up and its not like we need the deepest bench or the best bench in the league, just ask Detroit.

If we ketp Brewer, Reggie stays [Still should get another guard for insurance there], we sign a couple of solid players. [Brian Cardinal played well last season, from Purdue.] Also Indiana would still need another center, one to backup Foster, He would have to be pretty cheap too. Chris Anderson? Not very good but solid I guess.

sweabs
06-15-2004, 04:11 PM
Why not just keep the #3 and Pip?

:o

Personally, I think it would be a little risky. The draft is not very strong - so I don't see why we would trade a guy like Harrington for a #3 pick who may or may not turn out to be a good player. I'd rather work towards getting a proven SG.

tate
06-15-2004, 04:14 PM
Its odd the Bulls would leave Pippen unprotected if they had plans to trade him.

Unclebuck
06-15-2004, 04:24 PM
Wow, this is big, and for some reason I think this has a chance of happening, has a better chance of not happening, but Ii think there is a chance.


No team would have a big three as good as T-Mac, J.O and Artest. 2 top ten players and a top 15 player.

Can those three work together, can Artest sacrifice some of his offense, and can T-Mac do the same

Suaveness
06-15-2004, 04:39 PM
That is pretty amazing that they would say such a thing. However, I would be VERY concerned about our bench. As we saw from this year, you can't just put great people in the starting lineup and expect to win a title (ala Lakers). Then again, we are better than them.

But the bench thing really worries me. I think we need another real good bench player. I think we may give up too much here. If we can keep Fred, that would be better.

Snickers
06-15-2004, 04:43 PM
That is pretty amazing that they would say such a thing. However, I would be VERY concerned about our bench. As we saw from this year, you can't just put great people in the starting lineup and expect to win a title (ala Lakers). Then again, we are better than them.

But the bench thing really worries me. I think we need another real good bench player. I think we may give up too much here. If we can keep Fred, that would be better.

Our bench would be very weak. We'd definitely need to pick up a solid FA or two. And I agree that I would like to keep Freddie if at all possible, but then again, with Tmac getting 40+ minutes [not to mention Reggie] and Tins and AJ getting all the PG time, where would he play? :whoknows:

Will Galen
06-15-2004, 04:44 PM
That's quite a package they're talking about form the Pacers. Evidently, we have already traded Al to the Bulls. Almost interesting. Almost.

Al to the Bulls for the 3 and Pippen isn't gonna happen. If Chicago was interested in doing that trade they would have protected Pippen in the expansion draft.

Suaveness
06-15-2004, 04:45 PM
That is pretty amazing that they would say such a thing. However, I would be VERY concerned about our bench. As we saw from this year, you can't just put great people in the starting lineup and expect to win a title (ala Lakers). Then again, we are better than them.

But the bench thing really worries me. I think we need another real good bench player. I think we may give up too much here. If we can keep Fred, that would be better.

Our bench would be very weak. We'd definitely need to pick up a solid FA or two. And I agree that I would like to keep Freddie if at all possible, but then again, with Tmac getting 40+ minutes [not to mention Reggie] and Tins and AJ getting all the PG time, where would he play? :whoknows:

I don't know if it would work, but let Freddie play some PG too. I think Reggie and AJ can move aside a little.

Snickers
06-15-2004, 04:48 PM
That is pretty amazing that they would say such a thing. However, I would be VERY concerned about our bench. As we saw from this year, you can't just put great people in the starting lineup and expect to win a title (ala Lakers). Then again, we are better than them.

But the bench thing really worries me. I think we need another real good bench player. I think we may give up too much here. If we can keep Fred, that would be better.

Our bench would be very weak. We'd definitely need to pick up a solid FA or two. And I agree that I would like to keep Freddie if at all possible, but then again, with Tmac getting 40+ minutes [not to mention Reggie] and Tins and AJ getting all the PG time, where would he play? :whoknows:

I don't know if it would work, but let Freddie play some PG too. I think Reggie and AJ can move aside a little.

If we make the deal without Freddie included, at least it will give us a solid bencher, regardless of position. AJ and Cro aren't going to scare many people coming off the bench. Rick's proven [to me,anyway] that if you play well enough, he'll find a way to get you on the court.

Hicks
06-15-2004, 04:50 PM
:pray: Let this be true. This would kick such ***.

Kegboy
06-15-2004, 05:08 PM
I absolutely love Bender. That said, this is the only trade involving him I'd be okay with.

Some thoughts:
-UB's right. That's the best threesome since the '80's. Really, the only worry is if Ron would behave himself (what else is new?)
-Besides that, the bench is a concern. However, there are a number of veteran role-players available as FA's this year. If we were to somehow swing this, I think a number of them would be lining up to sign here.
-Also, as Detroit has shown (along with LA, for that matter), you can win without a bench.
-One fear with trading JB and Al somewhere is they'll finally live up to their potential and make us look bad. Here, this is somewhat mitigated because they'll be going to separate teams.
-Lastly, I don't care who we have to give up. If you can get TMac without giving up either one of your All-Stars, you do it!!!

Okay, between this and Chad Ford having us losing JJ instead of PB in his mock expansion draft, this is just too much hopeful thinking for me to handle. Must...not...get...too...excited. :blush:

Snickers
06-15-2004, 05:10 PM
I don't think we'll lose anyone in the expansion draft....

I'm registered with Orlando Sentinel online, so I'll go fetch the articles and post them for those who aren't.

fwpacerfan
06-15-2004, 05:11 PM
Do the Pacers still have the Danny Ferry trade exemption? Can that figure in this equation?

Snickers
06-15-2004, 05:16 PM
Tmac news article (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-sptmagic15061504jun15,1,5793759.story?coll=orl-sports-headlines)

Magic unsure of McGrady's future

GM John Weisbrod says Orlando is leaning toward making the top pick.

By Brian Schmitz | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted June 15, 2004


The Orlando Magic expect to know "pretty soon" whether superstar Tracy McGrady is in their future, but everybody else may be left guessing for some time.

"I don't know when the resolution will be made public, but we'll have it pretty soon," Magic General Manager John Weisbrod said Monday.

Frustrated after a 21-61 season, McGrady can opt out of his seven-year contract after next season, but the Magic have been pushing for an answer since this season ended.

Magic owner Rich DeVos will come to Orlando this week in hopes of speaking to T-Mac, who has said he is "90 percent certain" what he will do.

Magic President Bob Vander Weide told the Sentinel recently that he and DeVos want to know "whether Tracy is in or whether he's out."

In other news, Weisbrod said Monday that the Magic, who have the No. 1 pick in the June 24 NBA draft, "were of the mind to make the pick."

He said no team has swept them off their feet with a trade proposal in which the Magic could receive veteran players, a deal that might help McGrady win games and persuade him to stay.

Weisbrod said several teams who don't have lottery picks have called to inquire. He admitted "nothing is set in stone," and that normally the serious dealing doesn't occur until close to draft day.

A league source, however, said Monday that the Magic are trying to trade the No. 1 pick and that two teams -- one a non-lottery team -- are aggressively pursuing the pick.

But looking "at the value of the players involved," Weisbrod said he feels it's better to keep the top selection -- whether it's Emeka Okafor or Dwight Howard.

Okafor will work out for the Magic Friday morning. Howard will arrive Friday night with his parents and, according to his agent, Aaron Goodwin, will work out sometime Saturday "after the Magic have had a chance to digest Okafor's workout."

McGrady has scoffed at the available draft prospects and said he did not want to be part of a rebuilding project. He has lobbied the club to trade their draft pick for veterans.

If McGrady wants out, the Magic want to be able to trade him and receive compensation in the form of players or draft picks.

Weisbrod has said he has a "sense" of what McGrady will do, but neither McGrady nor McGrady's agent, Arn Tellem, have publicly announced their intentions.

It appears McGrady is ready to ask the Magic to trade him to a playoff team, and the silence of all parties may indicate that a deal already may be in the works.

Brian Schmitz can be reached at bschmitz@orlandosentinel.com.

[hr]


Shaq/Tmac article (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-sptshaq15061504jun15,1,7648322.story?coll=orl-sports-headlines)

Shaq gives advice to McGrady

Ex-Magic star tells friend to relax before deciding future

By Jerry Brewer | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted June 15, 2004

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. -- Shaquille O'Neal has been there before. He has been Tracy McGrady, a frustrated Orlando Magic superstar pondering an escape.

With the Magic again at catastrophe's welcome mat, it is only proper to ask the Big Fella to opine.

"I talk to him all the time," said O'Neal, a close friend of McGrady who has become a sounding board in this stay-or-go dilemma. "I really can't tell you what we talk about, but I just tell him to take it easy and just sit back and see how things are going to go."

O'Neal has chosen to respect McGrady's privacy and offered no insight into which way his buddy is leaning. But he did defend McGrady, who has been criticized for harsh comments to reporters about his team and fantasizing over trade scenarios.

"T-Mac is a very emotional guy," O'Neal said. "He has a lot on his shoulders, and sometimes he speaks out of emotion."

Recapping the McGrady/Magic dilemma: Owner Rich DeVos and team president Bob Vander Weide expect to meet with their superstar Friday. They want to look him in the eye and try to get a glimpse at his heart.

McGrady has three more years on his Magic contract, but he can opt out after next season. General Manager John Weisbrod has said the team wants him to sign a contract extension before the season begins.

Otherwise, the Magic would trade McGrady out of fear that he would bolt and leave them with nothing in return.

Eight years ago, O'Neal left the Magic for the Los Angeles Lakers as a free agent. The organization lost a transcendent figure at center, received no compensation and had to start over. Four years later, it signed McGrady, who has blossomed into Orlando's second superstar.

"Shaqitis," a condition that causes the Magic and their fans to think in the past, prompted this panic over McGrady. It is overblown to say the meeting Friday will decide McGrady's fate, but it has become apparent McGrady is getting close to taking up the Magic on that trade.

"I always tell him, from experience, just to sit back and relax," O'Neal said. "Whatever happens, happens."

His mind is on the NBA Finals, but sources in Los Angeles say O'Neal has reason for an even greater interest in the McGrady situation. Reports are true that O'Neal, who returns to his Isleworth home every summer, has envisioned an Orlando reunion some day. It's a long shot, though, and some say he only mentions it out of his frustration with the dysfunctional Lakers. Chances are the Magic would have to retain McGrady to welcome back O'Neal.

O'Neal has two more years left on his Lakers contract, but he can opt out after next season, too. He has declared he'd like to buy the Magic franchise once he retires. Teammate Horace Grant, another former Magic player, said O'Neal mentions Orlando often and keeps up with Magic happenings.

It's a big jump from curiosity to homecoming, though. Besides, if McGrady leaves, the place might be barren.

Hicks
06-15-2004, 05:16 PM
I just have to say it again: PLEASE let this be what happens!

Unclebuck
06-15-2004, 05:25 PM
This might sound strange right now but this is a gamble.

pacers could make a minor adjustment this summer, be guaranteed of winning 55-61 games, and being able to compete with the Pistons in the playoffs.

But this is a "championship move" remember that phrase from two years ago, I think.

This would be a move to be a better playoff team, Mcgrady does that, and would cause the Pistons fits.

But it does put all of our eggs in one basket.

Isn't that what the Magic did with Grant Hill a few years ago.

indygeezer
06-15-2004, 05:28 PM
Isn't that what the Magic did with Grant Hill a few years ago.


Or Detroit with Rasheed?

Kstat
06-15-2004, 05:30 PM
Isn't that what the Magic did with Grant Hill a few years ago.


Or Detroit with Rasheed?

Rasheed wasnt a big risk at all.

Orlando, on the other hand........

Unclebuck
06-15-2004, 05:32 PM
Or Detroit with Rasheed?


No the Pistons gave up squat to get Sheed.

The equivalent woould be the pacers giving up Pollard, Fred Jones and AJ for T-Mac, that is what the Pistons gave up for Sheed.

Pacers are giving up a ton, but McGrady is a superstar, who I think will be willing to score a little less and use the other parts of his game more.

He used to be an excellent defender, rebounder, and all around player. But the Magic have worn him down so much.

indygeezer
06-15-2004, 05:32 PM
Uh, shouldn't you be out waterproofing your matches or something?

Unclebuck
06-15-2004, 05:33 PM
Kstat, if this trade went through as discussed, would you fear the pacers more or less than you do right now

Kstat
06-15-2004, 05:36 PM
Kstat, if this trade went through as discussed, would you fear the pacers more or less than you do right now

Well, on one hand, the Pacers would be paper-thin up front. JO would have even LESS help than he did in 2004. No WAY could that team beat detroit in a halfcourt struggle.

However, that team could be VERY good in the open court. They would need to become an offensive team to win a title.

Its all for the better anyway, since Tinsley seems to be best suited for the fullcourt game.

Snickers
06-15-2004, 05:36 PM
Kstat, if this trade went through as discussed, would you fear the pacers more or less than you do right now

When did Kstat start fearing the Pacers? ;)

sig
06-15-2004, 05:37 PM
Wouldn't the Bulls receive a trade exemption equal to Pippens salary if the Bobcats select him?

Wouldn't the Pacers rather receive the trade exemption than Pippen?

Slick Pinkham
06-15-2004, 05:38 PM
I just have to say it again: PLEASE let this be what happens!

:nod:

The thought of having 3 of the top 15 players in the league on ONE team with no duplication of skills or position would make me very happy.

No bench you say?

Well, we'll beat the bushes for good veterans who want 1-4 million to back up those guys and make deep playoff runs. There always seems to be plenty of Jim Jackson/Brent Barry types out there. The real problem is getting a true 5 on the roster as a backup to Jeff, who I think would be a PERFECT starter on a team with 3 all-stars.

Snickers
06-15-2004, 05:40 PM
I just have to say it again: PLEASE let this be what happens!

:nod:

The thought of having 3 of the top 15 players in the league on ONE team with no duplication of skills or position would make me very happy.

No bench you say?

Well, we'll beat the bushes for good veterans who want 1-4 million to back up those guys and make deep playoff runs. There always seems to be plenty of Jim Jackson/Brent Barry types out there. The real problem is getting a true 5 on the roster as a backup to Jeff, who I think would be a PERFECT starter on a team with 3 all-stars.

I agree Jeff is the perfect big man for a team with JO, Ron and Tmac. He'll do the dirty work, and he doesn't need shots to be effective.

I also think Jamaal is a great PG for that team, he doesn't need many shots, and he's got the passing and quarterbacking skills to get all those guys the ball.

indygeezer
06-15-2004, 05:44 PM
Who will gaurd the paint? Or do you settle for being the Lakers East?

Pig Nash
06-15-2004, 05:48 PM
I don't get it. We'd have the same Frontcourt we have now. Why is everyone saying we can't still be defensive. If anything T-Mac helps our D!

Kstat
06-15-2004, 05:52 PM
I don't get it. We'd have the same Frontcourt we have now. Why is everyone saying we can't still be defensive. If anything T-Mac helps our D!

First of all, TMac is a very average defender. An offensive machine, but an average defender.

2ndly, there will be no Harrington or Bender or Freddie off the bench. Those guys were arguably your 3rd, 4th and 5th-best defenders after JO and Artest.

JO and Foster, barring the addition of a big guy as capable as Harrington (doubtful), will be largely out there defending the post by themselves for 48 minutes. Not to mention JO willstill be collapsed on by teams that wont respect foster's offense.

That said, id still do this deal. You simply have to become an offensive team. Not the Mavs per se, but youll be scoring on people more than youll be shutting them down.

Pig Nash
06-15-2004, 05:55 PM
I don't get it. We'd have the same Frontcourt we have now. Why is everyone saying we can't still be defensive. If anything T-Mac helps our D!

First of all, TMac is a very average defender. An offensive machine, but an average defender.

2ndly, there will be no Harrington or Bender or Freddie off the bench. Those guys were arguably your 3rd, 4th and 5th-best defenders after JO and Artest.

JO and Foster, barring the addition of a big guy as capable as Harrington (doubtful), will be largely out there defending the post by themselves for 48 minutes. Not to mention JO willstill be collapsed on by teams that wont respect foster's offense.

That said, id still do this deal. You simply have to become an offensive team. Not the Mavs per se, but youll be scoring on people more than youll be shutting them down.

T-Mac will still be better than Reggie defensively. Also if we trade that many players away, I assume we'll use our MLE for a solid big man to help out the frontcourt.

ROCislandWarrior
06-15-2004, 05:57 PM
Sign Me Up!!!

The only guy I don't want in this trade is Fred. But if we sign a good backup SG/SF and a capable big man...damn...I like this trade

Pig Nash is right, our D would be even better. Oh lord, can anyone imagine the battle between the Pacers and Pistons next year if we get Tmac and they resign Sheed. :o

Kstat
06-15-2004, 05:59 PM
Well, if I know Joe D by now, if the Pacers bring in TMac Joe WILL bring in offense to help his team. He's not one to let another franchise 1-up him.

Personlly, I still think he'll bring in Marion to counter TMac.

Darko next year will also be a huge factor. He'll be getting Memo's minutes next year.

Snickers
06-15-2004, 06:01 PM
Well, if I know Joe D by now, if the Pacers bring in TMac Joe WILL bring in offense to help his team. He's not one to let another franchise 1-up him.

Personlly, I still think he'll bring in Marion to counter TMac.

Darko next year will also be a huge factor. He'll be getting Memo's minutes next year.

What would it take you to get Marion? Don't tell me the top two teams in the league would be shifting from defense to offense....

Pig Nash
06-15-2004, 06:01 PM
Sign Me Up!!!

The only guy I don't want in this trade is Fred. But if we sign a good backup SG/SF and a capable big man...damn...I like this trade

Pig Nash is right, our D would be even better. Oh lord, can anyone imagine the battle between the Pacers and Pistons next year if we get Tmac and they resign Sheed. :o

See, I am ok with losing freddy because we wouldn't be able to develop him behind Reggie and T-Mac. One other thing is that i think we'll be able to fill one of these holes (PB or JJ gone to the Bobcats) in the Draft. I'd do this trade in a second. Also would this be a three way or two seperate deals?

Doug
06-15-2004, 06:02 PM
I don't know what's wrong with me. I keep looking at the trade thinking "I don't know if I'm ready to send Bender away".

And I've been one of Bender's harshest critics.

I wonder if Orlando would do the deal without either Fred or Jon. I'd love to keep one of them...

ROCislandWarrior
06-15-2004, 06:02 PM
Well, if I know Joe D by now, if the Pacers bring in TMac Joe WILL bring in offense to help his team. He's not one to let another franchise 1-up him.

Personlly, I still think he'll bring in Marion to counter TMac.

Darko next year will also be a huge factor. He'll be getting Memo's minutes next year.

Who does Marion replace in the lineup?

Prince? You would lose some D then. But who knows, maybe Marion will look like an allstar defender on one of the Greatest Defensive Teams of all time.

Snickers
06-15-2004, 06:05 PM
I don't know what's wrong with me. I keep looking at the trade thinking "I don't know if I'm ready to send Bender away".

And I've been one of Bender's harshest critics.

I wonder if Orlando would do the deal without either Fred or Jon. I'd love to keep one of them...

Yeah, we'd be virtually devoid of any "superstar potential" projects.... :(

Unless the Bobcats don't take Primoz! :dance:

Kstat
06-15-2004, 06:07 PM
Well, if I know Joe D by now, if the Pacers bring in TMac Joe WILL bring in offense to help his team. He's not one to let another franchise 1-up him.

Personlly, I still think he'll bring in Marion to counter TMac.

Darko next year will also be a huge factor. He'll be getting Memo's minutes next year.

Who does Marion replace in the lineup?

Prince? You would lose some D then. But who knows, maybe Marion will look like an allstar defender on one of the Greatest Defensive Teams of all time.

We'd still have prince as a 6th man. He could come in to guard the TMacs and Bryantsof the NBA.

We've got a deal in place for charlotte to take campbell's $5 mil off our cap this year, despite we know Okur wants to play in Phoenix.

We also know phoenix is depserately trying to make cap room for Kobe Bryant.

I think Joe is simply looking to pounce on another opportunity, as he did with Rasheed.

I still see us sending Okur, a future pick and possibly delfino for Marion. Phoenix is in love with Okur like no other, and in effect I think theyd see it as dumping marion for bryant and securing their franchise center.

ROCislandWarrior
06-15-2004, 06:08 PM
I don't know what's wrong with me. I keep looking at the trade thinking "I don't know if I'm ready to send Bender away".

And I've been one of Bender's harshest critics.

I wonder if Orlando would do the deal without either Fred or Jon. I'd love to keep one of them...

Yeah, we'd be virtually devoid of any "superstar potential" projects.... :(

Unless the Bobcats don't take Primoz! :dance:


Why would you want "superstar projects" when you can have 3 BONIFIED SUPERSTARS RIGHT NOW???

ChicagoJ
06-15-2004, 06:14 PM
We've had so few "superstars" over the years. I think we tend to forget the difference between "superstars" and "superstar projects."

:D

Snickers
06-15-2004, 06:14 PM
I don't know what's wrong with me. I keep looking at the trade thinking "I don't know if I'm ready to send Bender away".

And I've been one of Bender's harshest critics.

I wonder if Orlando would do the deal without either Fred or Jon. I'd love to keep one of them...

Yeah, we'd be virtually devoid of any "superstar potential" projects.... :(

Unless the Bobcats don't take Primoz! :dance:


Why would you want "superstar projects" when you can have 3 BONIFIED SUPERSTARS RIGHT NOW???

I wouldn't. That's why I would do this trade in a nanosecond. :D

It's just that I would miss the endless speculation about Bendy's future as an all-NBA player.... :cry:

I'd trade a championship 5-10 years from now for one this or next year, but I do like to have a couple project players just in case.

waxman
06-15-2004, 06:28 PM
Well, if I know Joe D by now, if the Pacers bring in TMac Joe WILL bring in offense to help his team. He's not one to let another franchise 1-up him.

Personlly, I still think he'll bring in Marion to counter TMac.

Darko next year will also be a huge factor. He'll be getting Memo's minutes next year.

Who does Marion replace in the lineup?

Prince? You would lose some D then. But who knows, maybe Marion will look like an allstar defender on one of the Greatest Defensive Teams of all time.

We'd still have prince as a 6th man. He could come in to guard the TMacs and Bryantsof the NBA.

We've got a deal in place for charlotte to take campbell's $5 mil off our cap this year, despite we know Okur wants to play in Phoenix.

We also know phoenix is depserately trying to make cap room for Kobe Bryant.

I think Joe is simply looking to pounce on another opportunity, as he did with Rasheed.

I still see us sending Okur, a future pick and possibly delfino for Marion. Phoenix is in love with Okur like no other, and in effect I think theyd see it as dumping marion for bryant and securing their franchise center.

You wouldn't lose much or any Defense with Marion.... he's long and has freakish athleticism...no one in the league is as quick of their feet..... Plus he's been averaging around 10bds a game the last several years.... although I doubt Big Ben would leave that many for him if this were to happen...

Kstat
06-15-2004, 06:30 PM
Well, if I know Joe D by now, if the Pacers bring in TMac Joe WILL bring in offense to help his team. He's not one to let another franchise 1-up him.

Personlly, I still think he'll bring in Marion to counter TMac.

Darko next year will also be a huge factor. He'll be getting Memo's minutes next year.

Who does Marion replace in the lineup?

Prince? You would lose some D then. But who knows, maybe Marion will look like an allstar defender on one of the Greatest Defensive Teams of all time.

We'd still have prince as a 6th man. He could come in to guard the TMacs and Bryantsof the NBA.

We've got a deal in place for charlotte to take campbell's $5 mil off our cap this year, despite we know Okur wants to play in Phoenix.

We also know phoenix is depserately trying to make cap room for Kobe Bryant.

I think Joe is simply looking to pounce on another opportunity, as he did with Rasheed.

I still see us sending Okur, a future pick and possibly delfino for Marion. Phoenix is in love with Okur like no other, and in effect I think theyd see it as dumping marion for bryant and securing their franchise center.

You wouldn't lose much or any Defense with Marion.... he's long and has freakish athleticism...no one in the league is as quick of their feet..... Plus he's been averaging around 10bds a game the last several years.... although I doubt Big Ben would leave that many for him if this were to happen...

Yeah, Marion is probably LB's ideal SF. He's not a superstar like JO or TMac, but he's an all-star to be sure.

Suaveness
06-15-2004, 06:40 PM
With all this T-Mac talk, I wonder about something. Didn't he have back problems last year? I just don't remember how serious it was.

And still the bench worries me. I would LOVE to get someone like Bowen. He would be a GREAT help, and would ease my concerns about defense. And then add a big man. And somehow keep Fred.

BillS
06-15-2004, 06:40 PM
Hmmm.

I do this trade in a heartbeat.

Our starters really don't lose a thing defensively. They certainly improve BIG time offensively.

Where is our bench in this case?

(All of this assumes we get lucky in the expansion draft)

Once again I bring up Mr. Jamison Brewer. I still believe he is our bench defensive spark.

Where does our bench offense come from? Well, I believe that a Reggie Miller who is the FIRST OPTION FOR SCORING OFF THE BENCH becomes a Steve Kerr dagger man, effective for one more year. It's simple, Rick says, "Reggie, when you are in the game your job is to shoot. Not pass, not get fouled, just shoot. I want your assists to be 0 and your TOs 0."

I think there are some good role players out there who can come off the bench, and Lord knows our roster space would be cleared.

That gives us (again, assuming good luck in the expansion draft):

PG: Tinsley/AJ/Brewer
SG: TMac/Reggie
PF: JO/Croshere
SF: Artest/?? (JJones maybe)
C: Foster/Brezec (yecch, but there you go.)

We'd need to be hunting for a 3 and a 5, but Donnie's really good at finding small forwards :D

Snickers
06-15-2004, 06:46 PM
And still the bench worries me. I would LOVE to get someone like Bowen. He would be a GREAT help, and would ease my concerns about defense. And then add a big man. And somehow keep Fred.

I would love to have a talking ferret and a third testicle, but that doesn't mean it'll happen. :flirt:

But you're right, Bowen would be a near-perfect addition if this trade goes down, and we definitely need a big man.

bulletproof
06-15-2004, 06:52 PM
Sheed and Big Ben couldn't stop the Pacers when Cro was hitting those outside shots in game 4, so imagine this lineup:

Tinsley/AJ/Brewer
TMac/Reggie
JO/Croshere
Artest/JJones
Foster/Brezec

JO and Ron would just pound away at the inside. And surely Tins will continue to improve his outside shot.

Although...I still think it's quite possible that Ron could be the one to go here.

ABADays
06-15-2004, 07:02 PM
Darko Memo? Isn't he a James Bond adversary?

MSA2CF
06-15-2004, 07:12 PM
Why an overhaul like this? I am not sure Donnie will just totally shake up the roster after years of growing this team to the level it is at.

JBones19
06-15-2004, 07:17 PM
Just chatted with Greg Rakestraw from ESPN 950 at Wing'in it in Greenwood. I asked him what he thought about the whole T-Mac thing and suggested it was just another one of those rumors that happens every summer but never really occurs and he flat out stopped me short and said "Every day that goes by, the chances of T-Mac becoming a Pacer become greater and greater." He also mentioned that he's heard that Indiana, Detroit, and the Lakers are the only teams that T-Mac wants to play for, Indiana being numero uno.

Championship moves anyone??
We shall wait and see...

;)

MSA2CF
06-15-2004, 07:25 PM
...said "Every day that goes by, the chances of T-Mac becoming a Pacer become greater and greater." He also mentioned that he's heard that Indiana, Detroit, and the Lakers are the only teams that T-Mac wants to play for, Indiana being numero uno.

Did you by any chance ask him his source(s)?

Kstat
06-15-2004, 07:27 PM
As much as I'd like to dream, I think that the Pacers would be willing to give up more than we would. We'd likely offer Rip, Darko and probably Delfino.

Besides, I'd rather not tempt fate and Do to Orlando what they did to us four years ago- getting an injury=prone superstar for up-and-coming talent.

JBones19
06-15-2004, 07:29 PM
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:25 am Post subject: Re: For what it's worth...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Did you by any chance ask him his source(s)?

Nope I didn't.
And I should've.
Rookie mistake on my part.

BUT a guy called at the end of the show and he said on-air pretty much the same thing he said to me.

I for one, would like to believe him.
He also mentioned Harrington is as good as gone regardless of who we get, and he said James Jones, if not drafted, will play some big minutes off the bench next yeat.

I guess it maked me believe it more when a Sport radio guy says it to me, but again, take it for what it's worth.

-J

Snickers
06-15-2004, 07:39 PM
.... he said James Jones, if not drafted, will play some big minutes off the bench next year....

-J

:dance:

Kstat, that'd be too ironic. But weren't Ben and Atkins on their way to Detroit anyhow?

Kstat
06-15-2004, 07:42 PM
.... he said James Jones, if not drafted, will play some big minutes off the bench next year....

-J

:dance:

Kstat, that'd be too ironic. But weren't Ben and Atkins on their way to Detroit anyhow?

Atkins was coming here anyway, and Ben WANTED to come here because Joe wanted to give him a major role on the team. Problem is, Orlando had the chance to KEEP Ben Wallace in the sign-and-trade, but chose to trade Ben and keep Bo Outlaw instead.

TheSauceMaster
06-15-2004, 07:44 PM
Looks like a solid deal to me , I am not worried about the bench , we could easily find something good in the draft or through FA to fill some gaps. This move is definately a championship move if it goes down , I think your gonna see Bird is willing to make the plays to make us champions , this sorta move would defintely put us up there next year baring in major injuries during the season or playoffs.

Snickers
06-15-2004, 07:46 PM
.... he said James Jones, if not drafted, will play some big minutes off the bench next year....

-J

:dance:

Kstat, that'd be too ironic. But weren't Ben and Atkins on their way to Detroit anyhow?

Atkins was coming here anyway, and Ben WANTED to come here because Joe wanted to give him a major role on the team. Problem is, Orlando had the chance to KEEP Ben Wallace in the sign-and-trade, but chose to trade Ben and keep Bo Outlaw instead.

Heh, smart move. :laugh:

Kstat
06-15-2004, 07:52 PM
.... he said James Jones, if not drafted, will play some big minutes off the bench next year....

-J

:dance:

Kstat, that'd be too ironic. But weren't Ben and Atkins on their way to Detroit anyhow?

Atkins was coming here anyway, and Ben WANTED to come here because Joe wanted to give him a major role on the team. Problem is, Orlando had the chance to KEEP Ben Wallace in the sign-and-trade, but chose to trade Ben and keep Bo Outlaw instead.

Heh, smart move. :laugh:

I'm going to start calling Joe "the jedi master." He seems to have an EXCELLENT record of preying on the weak-minded:

-John Gabriel (Wallace/Atkins for Hill)

-The Phoenix Suns (Cliff Robinson for John Wallace/Jed Bucheler)

-Danny Ainge (Mike James/$6 million cap space for Atkins/draft pick)

-The Atlanta Hawks (Sura/Rebraca/pick/happy meal w/fries for Rasheed Wallace)

-Michael Jordan :P (Rip Hamilton for Jerry Stackhouse)

Snickers
06-15-2004, 07:56 PM
Heh, smart move. :laugh:

I'm going to start calling Joe "the jedi master." He seems to have an EXCELLENT record of preying on the weak-minded:

-John Gabriel (Wallace/Atkins for Hill)

-The Phoenix Suns (Cliff Robinson for John Wallace/Jed Bucheler)

-Danny Ainge (Mike James/$6 million cap space for Atkins/draft pick)

-The Atlanta Hawks (Sura/Rebraca/pick/happy meal w/fries for Rasheed Wallace)

-Michael Jordan :P (Rip Hamilton for Jerry Stackhouse)

I'd place him as one of the top three execs in the league, with Walsh and West.

JOneal7
06-15-2004, 08:01 PM
ahhhh good ole orlando sentinel! those idiots constantly bash the magic even when they where winning! up 3-1 they bashed us! this is nonsense. This writer has no legit sources. But it would be nice for mac to be in indy :)

Suaveness
06-15-2004, 08:08 PM
With all this T-Mac talk, I wonder about something. Didn't he have back problems last year? I just don't remember how serious it was.

Bumping this because no one has answered. Unless no one knows... :o

Unclebuck
06-15-2004, 08:18 PM
I don't get it. We'd have the same Frontcourt we have now. Why is everyone saying we can't still be defensive. If anything T-Mac helps our D!



I agree with you and I can't understand why the comments about the Pacers being worse defensively or about them not being able to guard the middle.

Pacers become even better defensively. McGrady if he puts a little more effort into defense which this coaching staff will insist upon, and T-Mac is very long as they say nowadays.

Pacers halfcourt offense becomes better also. Pacers two biggest weaknesses in the halfcourt offense is lack of outside shooting and lack of someone who can create. We know T-Mac can create and his outside shooting is underrated

Pig Nash
06-15-2004, 08:22 PM
I don't get it. We'd have the same Frontcourt we have now. Why is everyone saying we can't still be defensive. If anything T-Mac helps our D!



I agree with you and I can't understand why the comments about the Pacers being worse defensively or about them not being able to guard the middle.

Pacers become even better defensively. McGrady if he puts a little more effort into defense which this coaching staff will insist upon, and T-Mac is very long as they say nowadays.

Pacers halfcourt offense becomes better also. Pacers two biggest weaknesses in the halfcourt offense is lack of outside shooting and lack of someone who can create. We know T-Mac can create and his outside shooting is underrated

PLUS! He can guard the threes if Ronnies guarding the other teams two.

Natston
06-15-2004, 08:24 PM
With all this T-Mac talk, I wonder about something. Didn't he have back problems last year? I just don't remember how serious it was.

Bumping this because no one has answered. Unless no one knows... :o

I think he's had a questionable back for a couple of years now...

Unclebuck
06-15-2004, 08:24 PM
With all this T-Mac talk, I wonder about something. Didn't he have back problems last year? I just don't remember how serious it was.




He has had back problems for a few seasons now, that is one reason why this is a gamble and one reason why I mentioned the grant Hill situation. The back prboelms started in the Hornets series of 2002 I believe and they have bothered him on and off since.

But McGrady is just too good not to get if you can without giving up J.O or Artest. Any player can get a career ending injury at any time and who knows what the future will hold

Unclebuck
06-15-2004, 08:29 PM
Why an overhaul like this? I am not sure Donnie will just totally shake up the roster after years of growing this team to the level it is at.


You are looking at this all wrong. One reason to "stockpile" good young talent is so you have resources to trade. I haver been preaching for three years that you have to trade guys at the right time and if we can get McGrady than this is the right time.

We know what AL is so we can trade him and I don't think he will suprise us in the future. he will be a very good player, we know that, but he won't turn into a J.O caliber of player.

Bender worries me because we still don't know what we have yet in him, might ne turn into a star, maybe.

sweabs
06-15-2004, 08:40 PM
Bender worries me because we still don't know what we have yet in him, might ne turn into a star, maybe.

:arrgh:

TheSauceMaster
06-15-2004, 08:44 PM
Well we can get someone who can make a impact and be a contender next year or we can sit on the young talent and wait 3-10 more years for a championship ..personally I'll take the risk , to get Tmac without losing JO and Ron is a once in a lifetime thing. Just think Having 3 young all stars in your starting 5 is something to dream about :)

MSA2CF
06-15-2004, 08:45 PM
Why an overhaul like this? I am not sure Donnie will just totally shake up the roster after years of growing this team to the level it is at.


You are looking at this all wrong. One reason to "stockpile" good young talent is so you have resources to trade. I haver been preaching for three years that you have to trade guys at the right time and if we can get McGrady than this is the right time.

That may be one, but I don't know that that is Donnie's philosophy. I remember him always talking about team chemistry and a big trade would be uncharacteristic for him, like the Ron Artest/Brad Miller/Kevin Ollie trade was. I don't see him doing this. All I have heard the last couple years is that he built this nucleus of young talent and they are coming together, growing if you will, into a championship caliber team and should contend, if kept together, for years and years.

Unclebuck
06-15-2004, 08:50 PM
As most of you know I am not a stats guy at all.

But I wanted to see what McGrady's defensive stats were.

McGrady's last season in Toronto he averages 1.91 blocks per game. By comparision J.O's best season in blocks he averages 2.8.

McGrady's best year in stealss he averages 1.65 steals per game, Artest's best season in steals was when he was in Chicago and he averages 2.7 per game.


What does this tell us, maybe nothing, except that T-Mac is capable of making a difference on the defensive end

McGrady's defense is not a concern of mine at all in the least. He is a little like Bender great off the ball. Put Artest on the best one-on-one offensive plakyer and allow T-Mac to help and recover. I think they could be a deadly pair

Natston
06-15-2004, 08:52 PM
Why an overhaul like this? I am not sure Donnie will just totally shake up the roster after years of growing this team to the level it is at.


You are looking at this all wrong. One reason to "stockpile" good young talent is so you have resources to trade. I haver been preaching for three years that you have to trade guys at the right time and if we can get McGrady than this is the right time.

That may be one, but I don't know that that is Donnie's philosophy. I remember him always talking about team chemistry and a big trade would be uncharacteristic for him, like the Ron Artest/Brad Miller/Kevin Ollie trade was. I don't see him doing this. All I have heard the last couple years is that he built this nucleus of young talent and they are coming together, growing if you will, into a championship caliber team and should contend, if kept together, for years and years.

The problem is that Detroit is going to get better next year simply with their cap and trade options. If we stay put, we will not defeat the Pistons next year.

I personally love our team depth and youth but it's redundant in some postions, we lack shooting and scoring, and like others have said, this would be a rare chance on getting a superstar. Donnie will ,for the most part, stick with his philosophy. But if any GM had a chance to get a top ten player that fills a need, and all he as to give up is bench players, he'd **** himself...

Ragnar
06-15-2004, 08:56 PM
Not to point out the obvious but Pippen, Bender, Pollard and Jones together make over 19 million next season. T-Mac will make only 14 million (the word only in this scenario is only used to point out that 14 is a number lower than 19 and should in no way be construed as 14 million being a paultry number)

If however they included Juwan Howard the numbers would add up perfectly. I think that if this deal is going down there is a possibility that he is included. They have Gooden and they are going to draft either Howard or Okafor (if I were them I would take Howard and trade him to Atlanta for the second pick and a future first rounder because Atlanta wants Howard bad)

Now if that is the deal :drool: :champagne: :cheers: :buddies: :champions:

So much for the bench being totaly decimated that would give us

Tins/AJ/Brewer
T-Mac/Reggie
Ron/JJ
Jermaine/Howard
Foster/Howard/Cro

Howard can play center and power foreward. He would be the perfect replacement for Al. Now it may be gooden or maybe Pippen is not going to them. Or maybe there will be no deal but I can dream cant I.

Cactus Jax
06-15-2004, 09:00 PM
Not to point out the obvious but Pippen, Bender, Pollard and Jones together make over 19 million next season. T-Mac will make only 14 million (the word only in this scenario is only used to point out that 14 is a number lower than 19 and should in no way be construed as 14 million being a paultry number)

If however they included Juwan Howard the numbers would add up perfectly. I think that if this deal is going down there is a possibility that he is included. They have Gooden and they are going to draft either Howard or Okafor (if I were them I would take Howard and trade him to Atlanta for the second pick and a future first rounder because Atlanta wants Howard bad)

Now if that is the deal :drool: :champagne: :cheers: :buddies: :champions:

So much for the bench being totaly decimated that would give us

Tins/AJ/Brewer
T-Mac/Reggie
Ron/JJ
Jermaine/Howard
Foster/Howard/Cro

Howard can play center and power foreward. He would be the perfect replacement for Al. Now it may be gooden or maybe Pippen is not going to them. Or maybe there will be no deal but I can dream cant I.

That might make sense as Orlando would practically give Hoawrd away. The team that needs a little extra is Chicago though. I think an extra 1st round pick, or something could possibly get them to do the deal.

Snickers
06-15-2004, 09:03 PM
I'm sure we wouldn't mind giving them #29. Gotta keep our second rounder though, cause I want Desmon Farmer. :D

Ragnar, I love that trade. With the way it was presented before, the only big man we had on the bench was Cro, and though I like the guy, he's not gonna cut it as your primary backup at both 4 and 5. Howard would be great.

Now let's do this! :dance: :pray:

smoothie
06-15-2004, 09:46 PM
if you are worried about having no bench, look at the lakers. you would still have the million dollar exception and the MLE. throw the whole MLE at dampier, and then sign another front court player like horry (finanls experiance), or scott williams (vet leagership)...thats a championship team.

Hicks
06-15-2004, 09:50 PM
If not Howard to fill the salary gap, then I think DeClerq + Gaines does the trick as well. Not as sexy, but probably more realistic than getting Howard.

Snickers
06-15-2004, 10:01 PM
If not Howard to fill the salary gap, then I think DeClerq + Gaines does the trick as well. Not as sexy, but probably more realistic than getting Howard.

Damn. I really wanted a sexy trade. :(

Cactus Jax
06-15-2004, 10:05 PM
If not Howard to fill the salary gap, then I think DeClerq + Gaines does the trick as well. Not as sexy, but probably more realistic than getting Howard.

No I think Howard is definently realistic as he has 5 YEARS left on his contract, plus they plan on getting either Okafor or Dwight Howard.

If T-Mac asks to be traded I think this is the move. Once again the main selling point would be to the Bulls, as it seems they will not do Harrington for Pippen and the #3 pick.

Maybe if Orlando is looking for talent rather than absorbing Pippen's contract, they could possibly get Hughes and the #5 from Washington with Al going to Washington.

Suaveness
06-15-2004, 10:11 PM
What if Howard went to chicago?

Cactus Jax
06-15-2004, 10:17 PM
What if Howard went to chicago?

I seriously doubt that happens, and even if it did, somebody from Chi town would have to be included. I'm telling you, Howard has very little trade value due to his long contract.

Suaveness
06-15-2004, 10:18 PM
What if Howard went to chicago?

I seriously doubt that happens, and even if it did, somebody from Chi town would have to be included. I'm telling you, Howard has very little trade value due to his long contract.

Well, something or someone else needs to go to chicago for them to want to do this trade. Al alone wont work.

BigDawg44
06-15-2004, 10:19 PM
ALL THIS TMAC TALK IS MAKING ME RATHER GIDDY! reading this thread is making giggle like a little school girl. I keep imagining the possibilities!

Hicks
06-15-2004, 10:19 PM
What if Howard went to chicago?

I seriously doubt that happens, and even if it did, somebody from Chi town would have to be included. I'm telling you, Howard has very little trade value due to his long contract.

Well, something or someone else needs to go to chicago for them to want to do this trade. Al alone wont work.

Maybe, maybe not.

Suaveness
06-15-2004, 10:22 PM
What if Howard went to chicago?

I seriously doubt that happens, and even if it did, somebody from Chi town would have to be included. I'm telling you, Howard has very little trade value due to his long contract.

Well, something or someone else needs to go to chicago for them to want to do this trade. Al alone wont work.

Maybe, maybe not.

They are giving up the number 3 pick AND pippen's contract. And they get Al. If they like him THAT much, sure it would work. But would they? Seems like they are giving a lot.

Cactus Jax
06-15-2004, 10:27 PM
What if Howard went to chicago?

I seriously doubt that happens, and even if it did, somebody from Chi town would have to be included. I'm telling you, Howard has very little trade value due to his long contract.

Well, something or someone else needs to go to chicago for them to want to do this trade. Al alone wont work.

Maybe, maybe not.

They are giving up the number 3 pick AND pippen's contract. And they get Al. If they like him THAT much, sure it would work. But would they? Seems like they are giving a lot.

Maybe if the Pacers took on Eddie Robinson's contract and gave them Juwan Howard... :puke: Well that could work for Chicago and would be some sort of incentive for them to do the deal.

Unclebuck
06-15-2004, 11:06 PM
Most people think McGrady shoots too many threes. But if you look at his %'s.

2002 he shot 36% while attempting 283
2003 he shot 39% while attempting 448
2004 he shot 34% while attempting 513.

But he has never played with even a decent post player. So that will open things up for him and instead of taking tough and well guarded threes he will get wide open threes.

The thing I keep going back to is how good a player McGrady is and you know what, he just turned 25 years old three weeks ago.


One other thing the Artest and McGrady would be a matchup nightmare for any team in the league. No one has a small forward and shooting gaurd who can guard those two guys.

MSA2CF
06-15-2004, 11:08 PM
But he has never played with even a decent post player.

Then I guess we better sign Mark Jackson if we trade for him so he can achieve the feat. :cool:

indygeezer
06-16-2004, 12:41 AM
As most of you know I am not a stats guy at all.

But I wanted to see what McGrady's defensive stats were.

McGrady's last season in Toronto he averages 1.91 blocks per game. By comparision J.O's best season in blocks he averages 2.8.

McGrady's best year in stealss he averages 1.65 steals per game, Artest's best season in steals was when he was in Chicago and he averages 2.7 per game.


What does this tell us, maybe nothing, except that T-Mac is capable of making a difference on the defensive end

McGrady's defense is not a concern of mine at all in the least. He is a little like Bender great off the ball. Put Artest on the best one-on-one offensive plakyer and allow T-Mac to help and recover. I think they could be a deadly pair


So, how many shots per game did the man he was gaurding average while he was gaurding him???

OK I have a serious thought aboujt all of this but because I'm feeling egotistical about it, I'm putting out my own thread in a few minutes ( I type slow er than my dial-up system allows...keeps kicking me off while waiting).

TheSauceMaster
06-16-2004, 01:12 AM
Give me Tmac or Give me Death :signit:

Snickers
06-16-2004, 01:22 AM
Give me Tmac or Give me Death :signit:

I'll get the cyanide....

:devil:

TheSauceMaster
06-16-2004, 01:24 AM
Give me Tmac or Give me Death :signit:

I'll get the cyanide....

:devil:

Too painful of a death just get me a large dose of moraphine please :)

JOneal7
06-16-2004, 01:28 AM
T-macs back isn't an issue. It hasn't flared up at all last season. HE only sat out games to rest his knee and stuff towards the end because the season was done, why risk further injury? i'm telling you guys who don't see tmac on a daily basis here. That he will be the final piece to this puzzle as sheed was to the pistons.

Snickers
06-16-2004, 01:36 AM
Your back would hurt too, if you had to carry an entire team on it. :neutral:

And as for his defense, I think he expends so much energy being the 1st, 2nd and 3rd option on offense, he doesn't have as much left on the other end. If he played here, he would come to be known as a very good defender. I'm sure of that.

fwpacerfan
06-16-2004, 09:21 AM
The way the trade winds are blowing today it looks like Artest may be gone in a TMac deal. How would everyone feel if we have to give up Al and Artest to get TMac? I still think I'd do it but the 'filler' will become very important.

efx
06-16-2004, 09:28 AM
I said it before and I'll say it again. When you can get a superstar like that you go for it. A 1-2 punch of JO and Mcgrady would be unstoppable.

Unclebuck
06-16-2004, 10:08 AM
The way the trade winds are blowing today it looks like Artest may be gone in a TMac deal. How would everyone feel if we have to give up Al and Artest to get TMac? I still think I'd do it but the 'filler' will become very important.


I am not giving up both Al and Ron, unless we get something more in return, but I can't think straight right now.

MagicRat
06-16-2004, 11:23 AM
I am not giving up both Al and Ron, unless we get something more in return, but I can't think straight right now.

Being voted MVP and a fanning of the trade Artest flames all in 24 hours. :goodevil:

I'm guessing that is enough to give you a "migraine"...... :(

Chambizzle
06-16-2004, 12:40 PM
If we give up artest too I expect Howard or someone else to be packaged into the deal.

SkipperZ
06-16-2004, 12:48 PM
I said it before and I'll say it again. When you can get a superstar like that you go for it. A 1-2 punch of JO and Mcgrady would be unstoppable.

I think the 1-2 punch of Shaq and Kobe are pretty good too, and i dont think id call them unstoppable

ROCislandWarrior
06-16-2004, 01:05 PM
If we give up Ron AND Al for Tmac :unimpressed:

Jtins/AJ
Reg/Fred
Tmac/Bender
JO/Cro
Foster/Polly

idk...it better be some kind of 3 way that gets us another decent player

I don't want anyone else from the Magic

Hicks
06-16-2004, 01:19 PM
Maybe it's something like Al and either JB/Ron, and Fred and Pollard, for McGrady and Howard? I could live with that.

Ragnar
06-16-2004, 04:08 PM
Orlando spent most of last season trying to dump Howard because he was not the all star they thought he would be. We dont need him to be an all star. We need him to come off the bench and rtebound and score within the offense. He would be a perfect replacement for Al in that Role. Since he plays Center and pf we would be better off than we are now. T-Mac can play the 2 and the three and of course Reggie can play the 2 and Ron would be the starter at the three.

If there were a way to do this deal then they must do it. Send them Al, Bender, Pollard, Fred, Primo and our next three first round picks if need be but by all means do it!!!!

Suaveness
06-16-2004, 04:10 PM
Orlando spent most of last season trying to dump Howard because he was not the all star they thought he would be. We dont need him to be an all star. We need him to come off the bench and rtebound and score within the offense. He would be a perfect replacement for Al in that Role. Since he plays Center and pf we would be better off than we are now. T-Mac can play the 2 and the three and of course Reggie can play the 2 and Ron would be the starter at the three.

If there were a way to do this deal then they must do it. Send them Al, Bender, Pollard, Fred, Primo and our next three first round picks if need be but by all means do it!!!!

I wouldn't mind that. Though I wish we could keep fred.

Ragnar
06-16-2004, 04:12 PM
I wouldn't mind that. Though I wish we could keep fred.

Sure me too but they are going to want him in the deal. Plus the way he is playing in a couple of years he will be complaining about not starting. With T-Mac and Reggie getting all of the sg minutes next season where would that leave Fred? Backup pg I supose but I think he is a better 2 than 1.

Suaveness
06-16-2004, 04:15 PM
I wouldn't mind that. Though I wish we could keep fred.

Sure me too but they are going to want him in the deal. Plus the way he is playing in a couple of years he will be complaining about not starting. With T-Mac and Reggie getting all of the sg minutes next season where would that leave Fred? Backup pg I supose but I think he is a better 2 than 1.

True, but Reggie is only going to be here one more season. Plus, there is no guarentee he would be like Al and ask to start. And backup PG is fine with me. We need some punch off the bench. Don't think we'll get that through FA.

ROCislandWarrior
06-16-2004, 04:19 PM
I wouldn't mind that. Though I wish we could keep fred.

Sure me too but they are going to want him in the deal. Plus the way he is playing in a couple of years he will be complaining about not starting. With T-Mac and Reggie getting all of the sg minutes next season where would that leave Fred? Backup pg I supose but I think he is a better 2 than 1.

True, but Reggie is only going to be here one more season. Plus, there is no guarentee he would be like Al and ask to start. And backup PG is fine with me. We need some punch off the bench. Don't think we'll get that through FA.

No do not trade Fred. Please, for the love of God.

If we lose BOTH Ron and Fred, there goes our Perimiter D and our future 2 guard.

Fred at the 2 and TMAC at the 3. That is a TON of athleticism and fire power combined with good D. Then there will be a guy named JO down low. Not to mention a TRUE PG to run the show in J tins.

Ragnar
06-16-2004, 04:21 PM
If they move Ron then we should keep Fred but if they move Al they will also want Fred. Thats my opinion anyway. I would rather keep Ron and lose Fred. I like Fred but I would rather have T-Mac at the sg and Ron at the sf if possible.

Suaveness
06-16-2004, 04:22 PM
If they move Ron then we should keep Fred but if they move Al they will also want Fred. Thats my opinion anyway. I would rather keep Ron and lose Fred. I like Fred but I would rather have T-Mac at the sg and Ron at the sf if possible.

I can agree with that.

ROCislandWarrior
06-16-2004, 04:25 PM
If they move Ron then we should keep Fred but if they move Al they will also want Fred. Thats my opinion anyway. I would rather keep Ron and lose Fred. I like Fred but I would rather have T-Mac at the sg and Ron at the sf if possible.

I can agree with that.

Same here, BUT

why would orlando want Al

they are in love with gooden and are going to draft yet ANOTHER big.


Plus, Donnie saying that he is willing to trade Ron all but signs this deal.

Suaveness
06-16-2004, 04:26 PM
If they move Ron then we should keep Fred but if they move Al they will also want Fred. Thats my opinion anyway. I would rather keep Ron and lose Fred. I like Fred but I would rather have T-Mac at the sg and Ron at the sf if possible.

I can agree with that.

Same here, BUT

why would orlando want Al

they are in love with gooden and are going to draft yet ANOTHER big.


Plus, Donnie saying that he is willing to trade Ron all but signs this deal.

He also said he was willing to trade anyone not named JO.

Ron is pretty big too :P

Who knows.

Snickers
06-16-2004, 04:41 PM
I want to keep Ron. Suave, I agree that defense is the key to playoff and championship success, so I'd want to keep Ron if at all possible.

But if he is traded, I'll presume there were damn good reasons for it. So I won't be heartbroken.

If we keep Freddie, we'd have a shotblocker [JO], a perimeter stopper [Freddie, though he's only really effective on the smaller, quicker guys], and a guy who has all the tools to be a very solid defender of 2s and 3s [Tmac]. Then we have Jeff, who's a very good defender, and Tins, who's not going to hurt us either.

I think Tmac would be a very good defender here. Not DPOY good, but perhaps close to third-team all-defensive good. Yes, I said all-defensive. :cool:

Suaveness
06-16-2004, 04:51 PM
I want to keep Ron. Suave, I agree that defense is the key to playoff and championship success, so I'd want to keep Ron if at all possible.

But if he is traded, I'll presume there were damn good reasons for it. So I won't be heartbroken.

If we keep Freddie, we'd have a shotblocker [JO], a perimeter stopper [Freddie, though he's only really effective on the smaller, quicker guys], and a guy who has all the tools to be a very solid defender of 2s and 3s [Tmac]. Then we have Jeff, who's a very good defender, and Tins, who's not going to hurt us either.

I think Tmac would be a very good defender here. Not DPOY good, but perhaps close to third-team all-defensive good. Yes, I said all-defensive. :cool:

If we HAD to lose Ron, I would want Tracy and Fred here. That would soften the blow.

Adding Bowen wouldn't hurt, either.

Snickers
06-16-2004, 04:53 PM
Yep. Bowen would be fantastic in that situation. We might then actually be just as good defensively, in addition to being a lot better offensively.

JOneal7
06-16-2004, 05:03 PM
OMG you DON'T WANT HOWARD! He has NO D! takes the worse shots ever! and has the ugliest forum on his shot! Deshawn Stevenson anyone?Or if bobcats don't take zaza pachulia HE WILL PRODUCE HERE...He's Like primoz only with energy and grabs a lot more rebounds. Plus he can shoot pretty good for a big man and he hits freethrows...
T-mac is what we need! and it will be so awesome!

JOneal7
06-16-2004, 05:12 PM
as for gooden...kill me...he is not off the trade block. He was going to be traded even during the deadline. He probably won't be in orlando next season anyways. As they will have traded him for a pg...

Snickers
06-16-2004, 05:14 PM
reece gaines!!!!1 lol!!
:dance: :pepper: :champions: :buddies: :fro: :rockon2: :pimp: :spitout: :signit: :shakehands:





:flirt:

Mourning
06-16-2004, 05:18 PM
GOOD! I want no part of either Gooden OR Howard :mad: .

If we trade both Ron and Al and Freddie something else we definitely NEED to be getting atleast something of value back, IMO.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Unclebuck
06-16-2004, 11:10 PM
I don't want Howard, or Gooden at all.

ROCislandWarrior
06-16-2004, 11:16 PM
I don't want Howard, or Gooden at all.

I don't think anyone wants them here.

Atleast that is what I am hearing so far.