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MillerTime
07-16-2008, 12:52 PM
I read this on another forum:


Hey guys, Bucks fan here - I've been hearing some rumors that the Bucks may have an interest in Tinsley. Frankly, I can't see why because I'm not a big fan, but I've been hearing them and even though they're unconfirmed I was wondering if you guys had heard anything. If Bird is looking for a PF perhaps he'd have an interest in Charlie Villanueva. A trade of:

Villanueva/Charlie Bell/Desmond Mason

FOR

Foster/Tinsley

Would work. Foster would fill a glaring need for the Bucks upfront alongside Bogut. Acquiring Tinsley would open the door for Mo Williams to be traded, which I've heard is a top priority for the team this summer. The Pacers would get a young PF in Villanueva, a solid backup guard in Bell and Mason's $5 million expiring contract.

Thoughts on this?

MillerTime
07-16-2008, 12:52 PM
here what i replied:

wow this trade would be ideal for the Pacers. Charlie V is useless on defense, but to get him for Tinsley would be amazing. I personally would rather trade Foster over Shawne Williams, simply being that Willaims is younger, just like the core of our roster and has more potential (I know no one else sees this). I dont want Mason or Bell in return. We are stacked with PGs and swingmen, theres no need for another. And trading a first rounder pick would be just stupid. We have a young team, we should add younger player, and this means getting players in next years draft.

Does anyone have a link for this rumor? There seems to be a lot of talk about it, yet no actually proof (links)?

This trade would be ideal for us:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=

Tinsley + Graham + 2nd rounder for Charlie V + Mason (he has one year left on his contract, expirer)

Leaves us with:
Ford/Jack
Dunleavy/Rush
Granger/Williams
Charlie V/Foster
Murphy/Hibbert/Rasho

t1hs0n
07-16-2008, 01:00 PM
Me thinks that Foster is supposed to be the sweetener for them to take on Tinsley's bad rep. :dunno:

Speed
07-16-2008, 01:01 PM
I've read Charlie maybe needs coddled. It was something about how they would move him because he couldn't handle Skiles style of coaching. I like his skill set, mostly, but I don't want any easily bruised egos or even a sniff of lack of toughness. We've been down that road. Plus I want Foster to retire a Pacer unless you get something really really good for him. Just my opinion. Charlie may not be soft, but I know I've seen that speculation.

Trader Joe
07-16-2008, 01:01 PM
Getting Mason's five million dollar expiring in the first deal is redundant considering, Jeff is also an expiring. We get rid of Tinsley though and get a talented prospect Villanueva.
You'd probably have to pull the trigger on that deal if you're Bird.

Dukins
07-16-2008, 01:06 PM
what would we do with bell and mason though. We have no use for them. we already have to get rid of one player before the regular season starts. This would give us 2 more wing players which is redundant.

BlueNGold
07-16-2008, 01:07 PM
Things that make you go hmmm. It might be a good move for us. Tinsley is worth nothing and Foster is a commodity that will be less valuable in a couple years. Charlie is only 23 years old. 6'11" with a whole lot more offense than Jeff. We'd need to do a brain scan on that guy though...make sure he doesn't poison the fresh water...

BlueNGold
07-16-2008, 01:09 PM
Might want to change the title to this thread. The best player in the trade is Jeff Foster. Centers like him do not grow on trees. Shawne Williams can probably play PF as well as Charlie...

Young
07-16-2008, 01:10 PM
I would rather just buyout Jamaal if it costs us Jeff unless of course we are getting an all star level player like Shawn Marion or AK which I doubt.

Charlie V has some talent and he is cheap. However if we give up Jeff we give up our best low post defender on a team that is weak on defense. I mean I think Rasho and Roy can be solid for us on defense but if we want to get better we need to keep Jeff right now.

CableKC
07-16-2008, 01:12 PM
Let me guess.....the rumor came from the RealGM Bucks Board and was likely posted by some 15 year old kid that doesn't even have his drivers license. :rolleyes:

This is a tough one....I would possibly consider this only because this deal really works out for the Pacers on a Financial POV....but honestly...if we could swap out Foster and included Marquis ( which I doubt the Bucks would want ) and Shawne...I would do it.

Unlike most people here...I consider Foster more of an important and critical core player then Shawne is.

CableKC
07-16-2008, 01:15 PM
what would we do with bell and mason though. We have no use for them. we already have to get rid of one player before the regular season starts. This would give us 2 more wing players which is redundant.
I would likely take out Mason ( which eliminates the need to add Foster ) and simply include Shawne.

At worst....if the Bucks were to somehow go for a Tinsley/Marquis/Shawne for Bell/Mason/CV....Mason could easily be traded before the trade deadline for another player of need. I think that there could be a market for him.

CableKC
07-16-2008, 01:16 PM
Charlie V has some talent and he is cheap. However if we give up Jeff we give up our best low post defender on a team that is weak on defense. I mean I think Rasho and Roy can be solid for us on defense but if we want to get better we need to keep Jeff right now.
I agree....Foster IMHO is untouchable unless we get a solid Big Man that can defend the post and rebound in return.

Arcadian
07-16-2008, 01:27 PM
This is all speculation. The Buck poster said he heard the Bucks were interested in Tins then suggested the Bucks offer Charlie V.

MyFavMartin
07-16-2008, 02:02 PM
No. We keep Foster.

diamonddave00
07-16-2008, 02:04 PM
How about a 3 way trade .

Bird has approached the Heat about Udonas Haslem for Tinsley. Heat are interested in Bucks pg Mo Williams.

Pacers trade Shawne Williams and Jamaal Tinsley to the Bucks, the Heat send Joe Anthony to Bucks ( filler to make trade work) and Heat send Haslem to Pacers and Heat get Mo Williams from Bucks.

End Result

Bucks get :: Shawne Williams , Jamaal Tinsley and Joe Anthony

Heat :: Mo Williams

Pacers :: Udonas Haslem

Raoul Duke
07-16-2008, 02:06 PM
How about a 3 way trade .

Bird has approached the Heat about Udonas Haslem for Tinsley. Heat are interested in Bucks pg Mo Williams.

Pacers trade Shawne Williams and Jamaal Tinsley to the Bucks, the Heat send Joe Anthony to Bucks ( filler to make trade work) and Heat send Haslem to Pacers and Heat get Mo Williams from Bucks.

End Result

Bucks get :: Shawne Williams , Jamaal Tinsley and Joe Anthony

Heat :: Mo Williams

Pacers :: Udonas Haslem

lol, no way the Bucks give up Mo

Unclebuck
07-16-2008, 02:11 PM
I wouldn't do the deal. Mason, while a pretty good player is someone we don't need. Charlie Bell and Charlie Villanueva aren't players I want to begin with. So we are basically trading Foster just to get rid of JT - I would rather buy Tinsley out

duke dynamite
07-16-2008, 02:19 PM
Let me guess.....the rumor came from the RealGM Bucks Board and was likely posted by some 15 year old kid that doesn't even have his drivers license. :rolleyes:

This is a tough one....I would possibly consider this only because this deal really works out for the Pacers on a Financial POV....but honestly...if we could swap out Foster and included Marquis ( which I doubt the Bucks would want ) and Shawne...I would do it.

Unlike most people here...I consider Foster more of an important and critical core player then Shawne is.

Happens to me al the time. 14 year-old on Absolute Pacers was trying to propose a trade including a whole bunch of our players for Antwoine Walker back in the spring. I kept having to tell him no, but he insisted on bringing Walker here.

Antwoine Walker 8 years ago, maybe. Now, not a chance.

RamBo_Lamar
07-16-2008, 02:29 PM
What? Nobody wants to see :kravitz: walk all the way to Kokomo?

:D

duke dynamite
07-16-2008, 02:36 PM
What? Nobody wants to see :kravitz: walk all the way to Kokomo?

:D

Ha, well...if JO'B is going to do it, I'd love to make an event out of it.

Keep Tinsley!

Kidding!

2minutes twowa
07-16-2008, 02:39 PM
I would love to get rid of JT (obviously), but I just wonder what's wrong with Charlie. A young player with great skills, yet everyone ends up wanting to trade him? Definitely a red flag IMO.

I also think Jeff should not be traded unless it's an unbelievable deal. Jeff is the kind of guy every team wants. Good character, hard worker, doesn't care if he starts, team player.

duke dynamite
07-16-2008, 02:45 PM
I would love to get rid of JT (obviously), but I just wonder what's wrong with Charlie. A young player with great skills, yet everyone ends up wanting to trade him? Definitely a red flag IMO.

I also think Jeff should not be traded unless it's an unbelievable deal. Jeff is the kind of guy every team wants. Good character, hard worker, doesn't care if he starts, team player.

Agreed.

diamonddave00
07-16-2008, 02:53 PM
Another option could be : Same 3 teams

Pacers send Tinsley to Bucks

Bucks send Mo Williams to Heat and Charlie Villanueva to Pacers

Heat send Haslem to Bucks Anthony to Pacers (he's purley filler) Heat need to move a contract to take on Willams deal vs Haslem's.

Bucks end up with Haslem and Tinsley. They get their pf who does dirty work plus a more pass first pg to team with Sessions.

Pacers remove Tinsley who currently is the 3rd pg here. Getting Villanueva they get a scoring pf with a one year contract thus a year to decide if they want to resign him , plus save 3 million on their payroll Anthony could be waived.

The Heat get their pg to team with Wade.

Rajah Brown
07-16-2008, 02:56 PM
I love Foster's game and would hate to see him go. But I don't see how
he's that critical at this point. Critical to what, the ability to win 42-43
games instead of 39-40 ? Whooppeeee!

Let's face it, as good as Jeff is at certain things right now, he's a 32-yr
old big guy who relies on quickness and speed. By the time this team is
a legit contender (ie, winning 50-55 games a year again), he'll be 34 or
35 and, with his history of aches, pains and back issues, probably have
slowed down and be alot less useful.

If not then great. If so, it makes sense to maximize his value by moving
him in a deal that merits it.

As for Charlie V, he's a head case. Not sure I see him fitting very well
with O'B or The Birdman. Pass.

diamonddave00
07-16-2008, 03:27 PM
Charlie V could be a one year Pacers but getting him and letting him go after a year totally clears Tinsley's contract from the payroll

After this season Tinsley's 6.8 , Daniels 6.9 , Nesterovic 8.4 , Baston's 2.0 , even Foster's 6.1 are gone from the Pacers salary list thats over 30 million removed.

Granger and Jack will need new contracts eating prob 14-16 mil of that . Basicly equaling Tinsley, Daniels and Baston's contracts.

It would allow resigning Jeff and Rasho for around a combined 13 mil and you still are in no worse capwise. Or you could just resign one of the two.

IF Bird and Morway can move Tinsley in this kind of a deal , I would be very impressed.

BorisD
07-16-2008, 03:28 PM
I would love to get rid of JT (obviously), but I just wonder what's wrong with Charlie. A young player with great skills, yet everyone ends up wanting to trade him? Definitely a red flag IMO.

I also think Jeff should not be traded unless it's an unbelievable deal. Jeff is the kind of guy every team wants. Good character, hard worker, doesn't care if he starts, team player.
I watched Charlie Villanueva (aka "Chuckie No-D") play for a year in Toronto, and while he is one of my least favourite players in the league, I'd say that if Indiana can get ANYTHING in exchange for Tinsley instead of having $5 million sit doing nothing on the salary cap, they do it.

Is Chuckie No-D a stud power forward? No. The rumours about him being soft and having no defensive ability (or desire) are entirely true and probably even understated, but he can score some and occasionally help out on the defensive glass and may show just enough potential to make another GM want him in a sign-and-trade next offseason. I'd say that's better than a bought-out contract, personally. And, worst case scenario, he's an expiring, too: if you don't want him after that, let him go.

If I were Bird, I take that trade and whistle a jaunty tune heading home that night. However, I wonder if this team more needs to address the contracts of Murphy and Dunleavy first? Murphy's coming off a career year, surely something could be done with those two packaged together?

grace
07-16-2008, 03:32 PM
This is all speculation. The Buck poster said he heard the Bucks were interested in Tins then suggested the Bucks offer Charlie V.

He probably heard it here.

2minutes twowa
07-16-2008, 03:40 PM
I love Foster's game and would hate to see him go. But I don't see how
he's that critical at this point. Critical to what, the ability to win 42-43
games instead of 39-40 ? Whooppeeee!

Let's face it, as good as Jeff is at certain things right now, he's a 32-yr
old big guy who relies on quickness and speed. By the time this team is
a legit contender (ie, winning 50-55 games a year again), he'll be 34 or
35 and, with his history of aches, pains and back issues, probably have
slowed down and be alot less useful.

If not then great. If so, it makes sense to maximize his value by moving
him in a deal that merits it.

As for Charlie V, he's a head case. Not sure I see him fitting very well
with O'B or The Birdman. Pass.

The younger this team gets, the more critical Foster becomes IMO. I agree that his production will probably start a slow decline as he ages, but the value of a veteran guy like Foster to mentor the younger players is huge.

BorisD
07-16-2008, 03:53 PM
Me thinks that Foster is supposed to be the sweetener for them to take on Tinsley's bad rep. :dunno:

That's exactly what it is, and that is the only way that Indiana is going to move Tinsley, by packaging him together with more palatable assets.

Realistically, though, the problems with the cap space are Dunleavy and Murphy, both of whom - surprisingly - almost earned their value in money last year. That makes their trade value as high as it's ever going to be until they're expiring (3 years from now).

Consider this (I don't know if this is the right thread), using Dallas, who probably wants to get rid of Dampier's contract in a big, bad way:
IND trades:
Dunleavy
Tinsley
Foster
2009 1st round pick

DAL trades:
Ericka Dampier (3 yrs, $11.553 mill, $12.115 mill, $13.078 mill unguaranteed)
Josh Howard
Brandon Bass

Tinsley's contract goes bye-bye, and Indiana gets a bright young prospect for the power forward, and an upgrade on the wing.

Justin Tyme
07-16-2008, 03:56 PM
whistle a jaunty tune heading home

A jaunty tune, I like that!

Justin Tyme
07-16-2008, 04:03 PM
That's exactly what it is, and that is the only way that Indiana is going to move Tinsley, by packaging him together with more palatable assets.

Realistically, though, the problems with the cap space are Dunleavy and Murphy, both of whom - surprisingly - almost earned their value in money last year. That makes their trade value as high as it's ever going to be until they're expiring (3 years from now).

Consider this (I don't know if this is the right thread), using Dallas, who probably wants to get rid of Dampier's contract in a big, bad way:
IND trades:
Dunleavy
Tinsley
Foster
2009 1st round pick

DAL trades:
Ericka Dampier (3 yrs, $11.553 mill, $12.115 mill, $13.078 mill unguaranteed)
Josh Howard
Brandon Bass

Tinsley's contract goes bye-bye, and Indiana gets a bright young prospect for the power forward, and an upgrade on the wing.

I don't see Dallas taking on Tinjury no matter how badly they want to dump Dampier. I don't see it happening with Dallas having Kidd either.

BorisD
07-16-2008, 04:05 PM
I don't see Dallas taking on Tinjury no matter how badly they want to dump Dampier. I don't see it happening with Dallas having Kidd either.

Kidd's only there one more year and then he's history, that's no concern. I think the only question is, is Dunleavy, a $5 million expiring and a first round pick worth it enough for Dallas to give up Howard and Bass? Probably not, but it's an interesting question.

Doddage
07-16-2008, 04:23 PM
No thanks to that deal if Foster's included

BorisD
07-16-2008, 04:42 PM
No thanks to that deal if Foster's included

Man, there is a LOT of love for Jeff Foster on this board.

Erik
07-16-2008, 04:49 PM
Man, there is a LOT of love for Jeff Foster on this board.He's a great hustler who has earned alot of respect here.

CableKC
07-16-2008, 05:21 PM
Agreed.
BTW.....LOL for choosing that particular picture of Batman as your avatar. :laugh:

Anthem
07-16-2008, 05:26 PM
Man, there is a LOT of love for Jeff Foster on this board.
If you had him on your team you'd see why. :D

He's a VERY easy player to like. Unless he's missing bunnies.

CableKC
07-16-2008, 05:28 PM
I would love to get rid of JT (obviously), but I just wonder what's wrong with Charlie. A young player with great skills, yet everyone ends up wanting to trade him? Definitely a red flag IMO.

I also think Jeff should not be traded unless it's an unbelievable deal. Jeff is the kind of guy every team wants. Good character, hard worker, doesn't care if he starts, team player.
I sort of agree here. CV being traded to 2 teams and a possible 3rd team in his short NBA career does tell you something. If I don't mind trading Tinsley for Harrington...I certainly won't mind trading for CV....but I ( like most of you ) wouldn't want to trade for him at the cost of Foster ( much less include Foster in any deal as sweetner ).

Trading Tinsley and filler that I don't care for ( like Marquis or Shawne ) to get CV is acceptable to me. At worst...CV is a 1 year rental to see if he fits or not. If he doesn't work out.....then he goes onto the FA market.

Doddage
07-16-2008, 05:39 PM
Man, there is a LOT of love for Jeff Foster on this board.
I was talking about the deal in the original post. I'd have to consider the one you came up with.

duke dynamite
07-16-2008, 05:44 PM
BTW.....LOL for choosing that particular picture of Batman as your avatar. :laugh:
Thanks, why? LOL :laugh:

CableKC
07-16-2008, 05:46 PM
Thanks, why? LOL :laugh:
Although I am clearly being fairly immature here......let's just say that his right hand doesn't look like his right hand in his picture. ;)

BlueNGold
07-16-2008, 05:47 PM
I sort of agree here. CV being traded to 2 teams and a possible 3rd team in his short NBA career does tell you something. If I don't mind trading Tinsley for Harrington...I certainly won't mind trading for CV....but I ( like most of you ) wouldn't want to trade for him at the cost of Foster ( much less include Foster in any deal as sweetner ).

Trading Tinsley and filler that I don't care for ( like Marquis or Shawne ) to get CV is acceptable to me. At worst...CV is a 1 year rental to see if he fits or not. If he doesn't work out.....then he goes onto the FA market.

After reading some of this, Tinsley and Quis are the best I would offer for him. BTW, who was sent to the Raps for CV. Was it TJ Ford?

CableKC
07-16-2008, 05:48 PM
After reading some of this, Tinsley and Quis are the best I would offer for him. BTW, who was sent to the Raps for CV. Was it TJ Ford?
Yep...it was TJ.

duke dynamite
07-16-2008, 05:59 PM
Although I am clearly being fairly immature here......let's just say that his right hand doesn't look like his right hand in his picture. ;)

Oh yeah, Batdong.

Gawd, now I see it. Thanks a lot! Uck....

CableKC
07-16-2008, 06:29 PM
Oh yeah, Batdong.

Gawd, now I see it. Thanks a lot! Uck....
You didn't have to change your avatar cuz of that.....:laugh:

maragin
07-16-2008, 06:34 PM
Is this the proposed deal covered on the ESPN NBA page? (Insider only)

Seeing Tinsley's face in the scrolling "Rumors" section caught my eye.

Rumors page:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2ffeatures%2frumors

duke dynamite
07-16-2008, 06:35 PM
Is this the proposed deal covered on the ESPN NBA page? (Insider only)

Seeing Tinsley's face in the scrolling "Rumors" section caught my eye.

Rumors page:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2ffeatures%2frumors

Don't you have to pay to become an insider? Because of that I can't see anything but headlines.

duke dynamite
07-16-2008, 06:37 PM
You didn't have to change your avatar cuz of that.....:laugh:
Found a better one anyway.

mb221
07-16-2008, 07:58 PM
Is this the proposed deal covered on the ESPN NBA page? (Insider only)

Seeing Tinsley's face in the scrolling "Rumors" section caught my eye.

Rumors page:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2ffeatures%2frumors

The Tinsley information listed in the Rumors section is the article that was in the IndyStar this morning.

It is just Bird stating that he is still confident he will be able to trade Mel Mel.

MillerTime
07-17-2008, 12:42 AM
Tins going to the Bucks for Charlie V is probably dead now because Bucks signed Lue

TheRifleman51
07-17-2008, 01:56 AM
How about a 3 way trade .

Bird has approached the Heat about Udonas Haslem for Tinsley. Heat are interested in Bucks pg Mo Williams.

Pacers trade Shawne Williams and Jamaal Tinsley to the Bucks, the Heat send Joe Anthony to Bucks ( filler to make trade work) and Heat send Haslem to Pacers and Heat get Mo Williams from Bucks.

End Result

Bucks get :: Shawne Williams , Jamaal Tinsley and Joe Anthony

Heat :: Mo Williams

Pacers :: Udonas Haslem

this Trade actually would work if my source is soild there was a proposed trade to get Udonas for Tins. But the heat wanted more i think the trade helps everyone but the Buck they get screwed if you ask me.

TheRifleman51
07-17-2008, 02:02 AM
No thanks to that deal if Foster's included

Unless its for Shawn Marion Hel NO he won't go
Foster is the ancore on this team he's been as consistant as they come
he dose his job every night why would we dump him.

rexnom
07-17-2008, 02:12 AM
this Trade actually would work if my source is soild there was a proposed trade to get Udonas for Tins. But the heat wanted more i think the trade helps everyone but the Buck they get screwed if you ask me.
Is your source the Indianapolis Star?

eldubious
07-19-2008, 04:01 PM
The only thing about the trade is why would the Bucks give up two expirings for Tinsley? Also, do the Pacers really want Mason? This trade has too many question marks to be valid.

Taterhead
07-19-2008, 05:39 PM
Unless its for Shawn Marion Hel NO he won't go
Foster is the ancore on this team he's been as consistant as they come
he dose his job every night why would we dump him.

Because we likely won't be resigning him at the end of the year. If we are rebuilding, how does an aging hustle player with a limited game fit into that?

If we were contending, Foster would be valueable. But we are not, and we might as well try and get something good for him while we can.

Infinite MAN_force
07-19-2008, 05:54 PM
This attachment to foster is kind of silly. If we are trading for a PF he probably wont see the floor much next year anway. Rasho and Hibbert can cover our paint D pretty well, with more offensive skill.

We would probably just sign him again after his contract expires next season anyway. That is if he will take something close to the minimum, otherwise we probably wont resign him even if we keep him.

I have no problem using him to get rid of tinsley if we are getting a servicable scoring PF back.

Doddage
07-19-2008, 07:05 PM
Because we likely won't be resigning him at the end of the year. If we are rebuilding, how does an aging hustle player with a limited game fit into that?

If we were contending, Foster would be valueable. But we are not, and we might as well try and get something good for him while we can.
I'd say it's the other way around. Foster probably won't be re-signing with us and instead will probably be privy to signing with a contender. He's said that he wants to retire here, but I'm sure he has championship intentions and going to a team like the Spurs would be a great fit for him.

With that said, I wouldn't want to let go of him unless we're getting something that we can benefit from, like a young stud or a draft pick (which might require taking back an unattractive contract). Something like a Ronnie Brewer/Morris Almond or Carl Landry (less likely) rather than a Charlie V, who's nothing more than a younger version of Murph, who we already have money tied up to. If that's the best we can get for Foster, then I'd just prefer to have the cap relief.

Anthem
07-19-2008, 08:09 PM
Because we likely won't be resigning him at the end of the year.
Why not?

Anthem
07-19-2008, 08:13 PM
If we are trading for a PF he probably wont see the floor much next year anway.
We keep saying that, and he keeps earning his spot back. I expect him to keep doing it.


Rasho and Hibbert can cover our paint D pretty well, with more offensive skill.
I'm pretty optimistic about Hibbert, but we shouldn't expect much from him this year. Rookie big men all get in foul trouble. Foster's a smart player with good athleticism and instincts, and he was a foul magnet his first couple years in the league.

BlueNGold
07-19-2008, 08:18 PM
The two best bigs next year will be Foster and Rasho. I hope Hibbert proves me wrong though. Foster has been too reliable and will not be traded until we get some help there. Whether Rasho and Hibbert are enough help remains to be seen.

Many have tried and failed to supplant Foster...

LoneGranger33
07-19-2008, 09:34 PM
Dickie V for Williams?

Taterhead
07-20-2008, 12:33 AM
Why not?

I listed my thinking right below that comment.

I also think Foster is massively overrated. It's hard for me to get excited about a guy who misses half his lay-ups, no matter how hard he plays.

Plus with the way the roster looks as of right now, PF is going to be the position we try to improve from here on out, JMO.