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View Full Version : ESPNEWS - Clippers agree in principle to trade for Marcus Camby



Aw Heck
07-15-2008, 09:24 PM
Just saw this on ESPNEWS.

No other players are listed so far. Are the Clippers sending Kaman to Denver? Or are they planning on starting a Camby/Kaman frontcourt?

EDIT: ESPN.com has a story up:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3491156

Sources: Nuggets agree to trade Camby to Clippers for second-round pick
By Marc Stein

The Los Angeles Clippers have agreed in principal on a trade with the Denver Nuggets to acquire center Marcus Camby as their replacement for Elton Brand, according to NBA front-office sources.

Sources told ESPN.com that the Clippers will only have to surrender a second-round pick to acquire Camby, who is being jettisoned by the Nuggets purely for payroll relief.
-----

A 2nd round pick?? Are you kidding me?

Hicks
07-15-2008, 09:25 PM
Surely Kaman is going to Denver. What else could they give up to land Camby?

In other news, I guess Denver decided they didn't suck enough on D yet, so they pulled the trigger.

Trader Joe
07-15-2008, 09:30 PM
A second round pick?!?!?!?!?! Holy crap.

Hicks
07-15-2008, 09:31 PM
HOLY CRAP. JUST FOR A SECOND ROUND PICK. Unbelievable. I hate trades based purely on money issues. RIDICULOUS.

rexnom
07-15-2008, 09:34 PM
Did anybody listen to Bill Simmons podcast where he argued that losing Elton Brand might be good for the Clips, who needed a defensive shot-blocker and rebounder more than anything. He suggested Okafor but I think Camby will do.

Kuq_e_Zi91
07-15-2008, 09:35 PM
This is insane. What is Denver thinking?

Are they trying not to make the playoffs or what?

From the Clippers perspective, probably couldn't do much better with replacing Brand. Especially with what they gave up.

Camby
Kaman
Thorton
Gordon
B Diddy

Playoffs? I think so.

d_c
07-15-2008, 09:38 PM
Denver has one of the highest team salaries in the league and the owner wanted them to cut costs.

wintermute
07-15-2008, 09:38 PM
you know, it was rumored that donnie walsh turned down a similar deal where zach randolph goes to the clips for a 2nd round pick. knicks fans must be rioting by now.

and there you have the value of cap space. it's not so great for signing free agents (teams invariably overpay to attract free agents), but it's a great asset in the luxury tax era for taking on other teams' problem contracts.

rexnom
07-15-2008, 09:40 PM
So does Denver also get the mother of all TEs now?

Doddage
07-15-2008, 09:41 PM
Can you say, salary dump?

travmil
07-15-2008, 09:44 PM
Didn't we have a thread not too long ago where everyone tried to argue that 2nd round picks are VERY valuable even though a full 65% of them never play in the NBA? Maybe Denver's GM took their advice.

In all seriousness, the league should look into deals like this. While technically there's nothing wrong with these deals in terms of the CBA, they basically GAVE Camby away for a pick that might never play in the NBA.

Smoothdave1
07-15-2008, 09:45 PM
Take a look at the Nuggets payroll and you'll see why they did the deal. Next season they have the following obligations:

AI: 22 million
Melo: 14.4 million
K-mart: 14.2 million
Nene: 9.7 million
Camby: 8 million
Hunter 3.4 million
Atkins: 3.4 milion
Kleiza: 1.8 million

That's a good 76-77 million tied up between 8 players with no bench. Plus, AI is a free agent after the season.

Don't forget the NBA is still a business.

wintermute
07-15-2008, 09:46 PM
Denver has one of the highest team salaries in the league and the owner wanted them to cut costs.

yeah. it was a given that nuggets were going to dump one of kenyon, nene, and camby, and camby is definitely the easiest to move.

travmil
07-15-2008, 09:49 PM
yeah. it was a given that nuggets were going to dump one of kenyon, nene, and camby, and camby is definitely the easiest to move.

But don't you think they could have gotten more for Camby? A conditional 1st rounder? Two seconds instead of one at least? An expiring contract? Something that doesn't give you the image of Denver's GM bent over a table? I mean, Camby isn't exactly a stiff. He's one of the best shot blockers and rebounders in the league.

btowncolt
07-15-2008, 09:49 PM
omgy y diint the pacerssz du thes?

d_c
07-15-2008, 09:52 PM
But don't you think they could have gotten more for Camby? A conditional 1st rounder? Two seconds instead of one at least? An expiring contract? Something that doesn't give you the image of Denver's GM bent over a table?

In this case, the Clips are the ones with leverage. This is the equivalent of the Suns giving the Sonics 2 1st round picks and Kurt Thomas in exchange for 2 2nd round picks.

Basically, the Clips knew the Nugz want to dump salary and DUMP SALARY NOW. In other words, the Nugz just wanted to cut salary starting this season, not next season, so not even an expiring contract would have done.

Most teams in the league are over the cap. The few that are under the cap and are willing to absorb the additional salary are the only ones Denver had to deal with, so they are in no position to dictate what to ask for in return.

d_c
07-15-2008, 09:54 PM
omgy y diint the pacerssz du thes?

Because the Pacers are over the cap (and don't have a large enough trade exception to take on Camby's deal).

The Nugz just wanted to lop off Camby's contract starting THIS SEASON. They didn't want a matching expiring contract that they would have to wait to expire next year. They wanted instant salary relief. The only way to do that is to deal with a team far enough under the cap.

Anthem
07-15-2008, 09:54 PM
and there you have the value of cap space. it's not so great for signing free agents (teams invariably overpay to attract free agents), but it's a great asset in the luxury tax era for taking on other teams' problem contracts.
Absolutely. Good call.

Doddage
07-15-2008, 09:56 PM
And that's why the moves we've made so far are going to come to our advantage eventually.

travmil
07-15-2008, 09:56 PM
In this case, the Clips are the ones with leverage. This is the equivalent of the Suns giving the Sonics 2 1st round picks and Kurt Thomas in exchange for 2 2nd round picks.

Basically, the Clips knew the Nugz want to dump salary and DUMP SALARY NOW. In other words, the Nugz just wanted to cut salary starting this season, not next season, so not even an expiring contract would have done.

Most teams in the league are over the cap. The few that are under the cap and are willing to absorb the additional salary are the only ones Denver had to deal with, so they are in no position to dictate what to ask for in return.

I understand all of that, but should it be allowed under the CBA? If Denver's management is so inept that the only way they can keep their salary under the cap is to GIVE away their players shouldn't they be held accountable for that by being forced to pay those salaries and not allowing these types of trades? What does this do for the value of the rest of the players in the league knowing that good veteran players like Camby can be had for a stale bag of chips under the right circumstances?

Hicks
07-15-2008, 09:57 PM
So if we gut the team down to being at least 8mm under the cap, we might get a 34 year old center. Can't wait!

Anthem
07-15-2008, 09:57 PM
In all seriousness, the league should look into deals like this.
What is there to look into?


While technically there's nothing wrong with these deals in terms of the CBA, they basically GAVE Camby away for a pick that might never play in the NBA.
Um, yes. So?

Here's the great thing about economies, barter or otherwise. Nobody makes a trade unless both teams come out ahead (or at least think they do). The Nuggets felt that their team would be in a better position with a 2nd-round pick than with Marcus Camby.

I know this: if the Clips offered the same deal for Tinsley, I'd take it in a second.

btowncolt
07-15-2008, 09:58 PM
Gosh, I just wanted to beat the newbies and Shade to the punch. Didn't think anyone would actually take that seriously. My bad.

d_c
07-15-2008, 09:59 PM
I understand all of that, but should it be allowed under the CBA? If Denver's management is so inept that the only way they can keep their salary under the cap is to GIVE away their players shouldn't they be held accountable for that by being forced to pay those salaries and not allowing these types of trades? What does this do for the value of the rest of the players in the league knowing that good players like Camby can be had for a stale bag of chips under the right circumstances?

*shrug*

You can give away all the players you want as long as you meet the minimum salary floor (around $35M IIRC).

You can't hold anyone accountable for bad salary cap management that forces these kinds of deals (see Knicks). Players don't really care about their trade value around the league as long as they're getting paid.

Cherokee
07-15-2008, 10:00 PM
Do draft choices have a monetary value assigned to them to make trades equitable? I know player-for-player trades have to meet certain criteria, but what about player-for-draft choice swaps?

Ownagedood
07-15-2008, 10:01 PM
This just in... The Cleavland Cavaliers have traded Lebron James to the San Antonio Spurs for the rights of D.J. White.

:)

ok.. so it's not that bad... But seriously... That's ridiculous... Anyone would do that given the chance(if able to).. Well, not anyone.. But close..

travmil
07-15-2008, 10:04 PM
Players don't really care about their trade value around the league as long as they're getting paid.

I think that's true about the majority of players. But I would wager that the ones that are involved in the Player's Association and the Union Pres are cringing right now. That's what rubs me the wrong way here I think is that a good veteran player can be traded for so little.

travmil
07-15-2008, 10:06 PM
What is there to look into?


Um, yes. So?

Here's the great thing about economies, barter or otherwise. Nobody makes a trade unless both teams come out ahead (or at least think they do). The Nuggets felt that their team would be in a better position with a 2nd-round pick than with Marcus Camby.

I know this: if the Clips offered the same deal for Tinsley, I'd take it in a second.

I think I've explained why I have a problem with this pretty well so I'm not gonna explain it again. As far as the same trade for Tins, I'd take it as well but that wouldn't exactly be salary we were worried about dumping now would it?

wintermute
07-15-2008, 10:14 PM
Do draft choices have a monetary value assigned to them to make trades equitable? I know player-for-player trades have to meet certain criteria, but what about player-for-draft choice swaps?

no. draft picks have zero monetary value in a trade.



So if we gut the team down to being at least 8mm under the cap, we might get a 34 year old center. Can't wait!

cap space is the means, it isn't the end. it's a desirable asset, much as a veteran player or future pick is, because it can be easily turned into those things.

ESutt7
07-15-2008, 10:17 PM
This just in... The Cleavland Cavaliers have traded Lebron James to the San Antonio Spurs for the rights of D.J. White.

:)

ok.. so it's not that bad... But seriously... That's ridiculous... Anyone would do that given the chance(if able to).. Well, not anyone.. But close..

What's especially amazing is the Spurs tricked the Cavs because they don't even OWN the rights to White! Truly amazing...the Cavs should do their homework...;)

avoidingtheclowns
07-15-2008, 10:17 PM
you know, it was rumored that donnie walsh turned down a similar deal where zach randolph goes to the clips for a 2nd round pick. knicks fans must be rioting by now.

i can't imagine most fans are too happy. DK, any insight?


Did anybody listen to Bill Simmons podcast where he argued that losing Elton Brand might be good for the Clips, who needed a defensive shot-blocker and rebounder more than anything. He suggested Okafor but I think Camby will do.

johnny are you worried yet is the greatest ongoing podcast segment in the history of bill simmons podcast segments.

ajbry
07-15-2008, 10:41 PM
Camby is old, has a pretty large contract (although it expires along with Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley in 2010), and in most circles is overrated as a defensive stalwart and cornerstone.

But he's worth much more than a 2nd rounder in terms of talent for value. Obviously the Nuggets are re-tooling their team and this could signal the beginning of a trade market that includes Allen Iverson.

I can't wait until the Warriors play the Nuggets... 150 points sounds like a safe bet to me.

Anthem
07-15-2008, 11:23 PM
As far as the same trade for Tins, I'd take it as well but that wouldn't exactly be salary we were worried about dumping now would it?
That's exactly what we're trying to dump.

If Tinsley had a minimum contract this wouldn't be a problem.

travmil
07-15-2008, 11:34 PM
That's exactly what we're trying to dump.

If Tinsley had a minimum contract this wouldn't be a problem.

You missed my point. I meant that dumping Tins because he's a lazy malcontent with off court issues is more important than dumping him for salary reasons. I believe that to be completely true.

croz24
07-15-2008, 11:38 PM
good for the clips. should be an interesting team to watch this year. is there an update on shaun livingston's plans?

Trader Joe
07-15-2008, 11:45 PM
Yeah, I really can't imagine Iverson is happy about this right now.

ChicagoJ
07-15-2008, 11:47 PM
So does Denver also get the mother of all TEs now?

don't think so (but it could be different in the "new" CBA). The Clips are under the cap, I believe, so they can take on the salary without giving up a TE.

Kuq_e_Zi91
07-15-2008, 11:48 PM
good for the clips. should be an interesting team to watch this year. is there an update on shaun livingston's plans?

I know they released him. I'm not sure if they plan on having him back.

Kuq_e_Zi91
07-15-2008, 11:50 PM
So does Denver also get the mother of all TEs now?

Denver actually gets a $10 mil TE.


The Nuggets will receive a $10 million trade exception due to the deal. It can be used for up to a year from the day the trade is completed.

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/10898780

ChicagoJ
07-15-2008, 11:51 PM
Next thing you know, Kupchek will go down with an injury and the Nets will trade Bob McAdoo to the Lakers for a second-rounder and cash.

JayRedd
07-15-2008, 11:56 PM
Solid pick up for the Clip Show. Camby next to Kaman is maybe a better fit than even Brand would have been. Plus significantly cheaper and for two years instead of six. It's obviously not great for the future when you're two best players are an aging, injury prone PG and an already aged, injury prone co-C...but still. It'll borderline keep them in the Playoff hunt for next year and they'll be back in cap space land in a few years.

CableKC
07-16-2008, 12:07 AM
See what having copious amounts of Salarycap space gets you?

You get an All-Star Defensive Center for a 2nd round draft pick. Camby maybe old...but he is still a solid Center that can rebound, provide some solid defense and block shots.

maragin
07-16-2008, 12:08 AM
This offseason has been more entertaining than our last season. *







*Almost

Merz
07-16-2008, 12:27 AM
Camby and Kaman together will be great for the Clips, getting all those rebounds allowing BD and EJ to chuck away.

LG33
07-16-2008, 12:31 AM
It would be much better if, instead of the $10 million dollar trade exception, the NBA required the Nuggets to pay that money to their second-round pick. Players like Arthur would be happy to fall for that contract.

Kraft
07-16-2008, 12:38 AM
Team no longer wants to pay employee. Within the rules of the league, Nuggets move player. Why is this a big deal?

The Clippers made a shrewd move. Suddenly that's reason to change everything around?

The players' union and owners signed the deal with eyes wide open. These are the results. They'll deal with it.

avoidingtheclowns
07-16-2008, 12:50 AM
so right now...

bdiddy / knight / taylor (#55)
mobley / gordon (#7)
thornton / thomas
camby / powell
kaman / jordan (#35)

definitely thin up front could use a combo PF/C like voskuhl and a bigger 2/3 like giricek, newble, snyder or even kareem rush - something like that

HeliumFear
07-16-2008, 01:11 AM
:shakehead I'm gonna' start pitching pyramid schemes to NBA GMs.

CableKC
07-16-2008, 01:39 AM
I looked at the Salarycap situation for the Nuggets this season......they are at $79 mil with Camby. Moving him for literally nothing saved them about $18 mil ( 2x Camby's salary )...since they were over the Luxury Tax.

This was a purely Financially motivated move.

Justin Tyme
07-16-2008, 07:36 AM
I looked at the Salarycap situation for the Nuggets this season......they are at $79 mil with Camby. Moving him for literally nothing saved them about $18 mil ( 2x Camby's salary )...since they were over the Luxury Tax.

This was a purely Financially motivated move.


Thanks for understanding what some can't.... saves OWNERSHIP 18 MIL! Ownership got what they wanted $savings$. Granted if ownership had had their druthers Camby with his salary wouldn't have been the one traded. Either Nene or K-Mart, with longer and larger contracts, would have been better for ownership, not to mention getting rid of any possible flare up of health issues they have.

It looks at 1st as if Denver is getting hosed, but ownership got what they wanted... $savings$. Looking into the future, they could/can use that $10 miL TE in a trade to better themselves in the future. With AI's 22 mil expiring coming off next season, this 10 mil TE really looks good and has some great possibilites for them picking up a player or 2 for the 09-10 season. In essence, Denver didn't give Camby away at all. It is a very shred manuver(sp?) and deal on Denver's part.

I see it as a win win deal for both teams. JMOAA

Outsider
07-16-2008, 08:46 AM
Just wanted to point out this is basically the same as what happened between the Pacers and Hornets for Peja. Yes, it was technically a sign and trade, but the results are the same as what is happening here between the Clippers and Nuggets.

The Pacers signed Peja to a new contract upping the team salary. They then traded him to the Hornets who were under the cap and could absorb the salary increase without having to send someone back (creating a trade exception).

Outsider

travmil
07-16-2008, 09:57 AM
OMG! I just saw on ESPNNews that this deal isn't even for a 2nd round pick. It's for the right to EXCHANGE 2nd round picks. The Clippers still get a pick in round 2 it just might be slightly lower. ESPNNews is also reporting that this deal will actually save Denver a total of $40 million, not $18. I understand the significance of that as I have already explained. I still just can't believe that a player with Camby's defensive value can be traded for so little.

Gyron
07-16-2008, 10:09 AM
Isn't a $10 Million Trade exception the largest one ever? I seem to remember when we had the Peja Trade Exception it was the largest and it was for under $10 Million.

Tom White
07-16-2008, 10:18 AM
so right now...

bdiddy / knight / taylor (#55)
mobley / gordon (#7)
thornton / thomas
camby / powell
kaman / jordan (#35)

definitely thin up front could use a combo PF/C like voskuhl and a bigger 2/3 like giricek, newble, snyder or even kareem rush - something like that

Talking about thin up front, Who are the Nuggets going to rely on to be a healthy center for them?

I wonder if NugzFan, or however he spelled his screen name, is still around somewhere? Would be interesting hearing his take on this.

Vince Neil
07-16-2008, 10:22 AM
It's good to see the Clips actually doing something in free agency/trades for a change. Ole' tight wad Sterling may have changed his tune and trying to keep up with Dr. Buss.

Justin Tyme
07-16-2008, 10:33 AM
Isn't a $10 Million Trade exception the largest one ever? I seem to remember when we had the Peja Trade Exception it was the largest and it was for under $10 Million.


The Pacers TE from the Peja S&T was the largest at 7.5 mil until this deal. IIRC, Atlanta never used that 7.5 mil TE either.

rexnom
07-16-2008, 10:56 AM
The Pacers TE from the Peja S&T was the largest at 7.5 mil until this deal. IIRC, Atlanta never used that 7.5 mil TE either.
Well, we never traded the TE to them. We had the TE and were thus able to absorb Al's contract.

CableKC
07-16-2008, 11:23 AM
It's good to see the Clips actually doing something in free agency/trades for a change. Ole' tight wad Sterling may have changed his tune and trying to keep up with Dr. Buss.
I don't necessarily think that Sterling has changed his way just to keep up with the Lakers.

Although Sterling is probably still considered "cheap" ( you can look at why they lost Brand )....the Clippers ( even after signing Baron ) are waaaayyyyy under the Salarycap. Adding Baron's estimated $13mil 2008-2009 salary to their existing guaranteed Contracts....the Clips would STILL be at about $25 mil. Then adding in Camby's $9 mil and then signing both Gordon and Jordan......they are still at about $36-37 mil with a total of 9 players.

Clearly...no matter what Sterling does...he will have no choice but to sign additional players just to get back to the league minimum. The Clips have a chance to actually retool their team on the fly. They still have several needs to fill and are in the position to take on players without losing anything of significance. I can easily see them going to other "over the cap" teams and seeing if they can do the same.

MyFavMartin
07-16-2008, 11:28 AM
Didn't we have a thread not too long ago where everyone tried to argue that 2nd round picks are VERY valuable even though a full 65% of them never play in the NBA? Maybe Denver's GM took their advice.

In all seriousness, the league should look into deals like this. While technically there's nothing wrong with these deals in terms of the CBA, they basically GAVE Camby away for a pick that might never play in the NBA.

Losing Camby is punishment to the Nuggets for bad contracts and management. I think it's fair. And Clippers are rewarded for good management and are compensated for losing Brand...

Seems to work out...

naptownmenace
07-16-2008, 11:41 AM
Next thing you know, Kupchek will go down with an injury and the Nets will trade Bob McAdoo to the Lakers for a second-rounder and cash.

Clever! ;)

naptownmenace
07-16-2008, 11:44 AM
I don't necessarily think that Sterling has changed his way just to keep up with the Lakers.

Although Sterling is probably still considered "cheap" ( you can look at why they lost Brand )....the Clippers ( even after signing Baron ) are waaaayyyyy under the Salarycap. Adding Baron's estimated $13mil 2008-2009 salary to their existing guaranteed Contracts....the Clips would STILL be at about $25 mil. Then adding in Camby's $9 mil and then signing both Gordon and Jordan......they are still at about $36-37 mil with a total of 9 players.

Clearly...no matter what Sterling does...he will have no choice but to sign additional players just to get back to the league minimum. The Clips have a chance to actually retool their team on the fly. They still have several needs to fill and are in the position to take on players without losing anything of significance. I can easily see them going to other "over the cap" teams and seeing if they can do the same.

Tinsley would be an excellent backup for them don't ya think?

Or we could send them Marquis Daniels for instant cap relief. They could use a SG now that Magette is gone and all they have is Gordon (a rookie).

:signit:

Justin Tyme
07-16-2008, 11:47 AM
Well, we never traded the TE to them. We had the TE and were thus able to absorb Al's contract.


So what you are saying is "that a team who recieves a TE doesn't trade it to another team but just absorbs the incoming player's contract?" What did Altanta get for the S&T of Harrington to the Pacers then?

Please don't tell me the 07 1st round pick!

CableKC
07-16-2008, 11:50 AM
Thanks for understanding what some can't.... saves OWNERSHIP 18 MIL! Ownership got what they wanted $savings$. Granted if ownership had had their druthers Camby with his salary wouldn't have been the one traded. Either Nene or K-Mart, with longer and larger contracts, would have been better for ownership, not to mention getting rid of any possible flare up of health issues they have.

It looks at 1st as if Denver is getting hosed, but ownership got what they wanted... $savings$. Looking into the future, they could/can use that $10 miL TE in a trade to better themselves in the future. With AI's 22 mil expiring coming off next season, this 10 mil TE really looks good and has some great possibilites for them picking up a player or 2 for the 09-10 season. In essence, Denver didn't give Camby away at all. It is a very shred manuver(sp?) and deal on Denver's part.

I see it as a win win deal for both teams. JMOAA
When I look at the "big picture", I definitely think the Nuggets lost on this deal....not as much as most people think they lost, but they definitely came up short on dealing Camby.

Although they would clearly benefit in moving any of the huge long-term contracts that they had ( Nene or KMart ), neither of them held as much value or was easier to move then Camby. Many people look at Camby as some 33 year old Injury prone Center that is past his prime that may or may not be overrated...if not overpaid. But I still think that he is worth it....not only because he still averages double-digit rebounds and is easily one of the top Shotblockers in the league ( over the last couple of seasons ) at 3 blocks per game... but he has decent trade value due to his expiring contract in the 2009-2010 season.

Despite being 34 years old and being paid $22mil over the next 2 seasons....any team that is competing for a Playoff spot over the next 2 years that needs a interior defensive presense would definitely have a need for a player like Camby.

If I were the Nuggets Owners....I would really consider firing the GM...or whoever makes the decision to make trades. Trading Camby anytime over the last 2 seasons was a no-brainer...it was something that had to be done. But for one reason or another....they sat on Camby until they had no choice but to get nothing for their only tradeable asset. But after the 2007-2008 trading deadline passed....the Nuggets had no choice but to trade a player that made more then $10+ mil and get back nothing so that they can remain under the Luxury Tax threshold.

That's the reason why the Nuggets lose out...not because they pretty much moved Camby for nothing.....it's cuz they could have gotten something of greater value over the last 2 seasons then the rights to swap 2nd round picks.

CableKC
07-16-2008, 11:53 AM
Tinsley would be an excellent backup for them don't ya think?

Or we could send them Marquis Daniels for instant cap relief. They could use a SG now that Magette is gone and all they have is Gordon (a rookie).

:signit:
I could only wish...if there was ever a team that had no need for Expiring Contracts....it's the Clippers.

CableKC
07-16-2008, 12:00 PM
Losing Camby is punishment to the Nuggets for bad contracts and management. I think it's fair. And Clippers are rewarded for good management and are compensated for losing Brand...

Seems to work out...
This season...the Nuggets HAD to move a player on their roster and get back no salary. Since the Clippers were one of the few ( if not the only one remaining ) that could have taken Camby's salary while sending back nothing of value.....I think that this was one of those situations where the Clippers were in the right place at the right time to get this sweetheart deal.

CableKC
07-16-2008, 12:01 PM
OMG! I just saw on ESPNNews that this deal isn't even for a 2nd round pick. It's for the right to EXCHANGE 2nd round picks. The Clippers still get a pick in round 2 it just might be slightly lower. ESPNNews is also reporting that this deal will actually save Denver a total of $40 million, not $18. I understand the significance of that as I have already explained. I still just can't believe that a player with Camby's defensive value can be traded for so little.
I can...the Nuggets got nothing for Camby cuz of poor roster/salary/financial management over the last couple of years.

The only real benefit that they may have is that they can probably use the TE 1 year from now. The problem is that it won't help them out in the 2008-2009 season since they cannot trade for anyone this season without going over the Luxury Tax....it can only help them out beyond the 2009-2010 season.

Speed
07-16-2008, 12:07 PM
I haven't read the thread, but I guess switching 2nd round picks gets you a guy who leads the league in Blocks and a Defensive player of the year.

Three 2nd rounders gets you James White.....

MyFavMartin
07-16-2008, 12:11 PM
Tinsley would be an excellent backup for them don't ya think?

Or we could send them Marquis Daniels for instant cap relief. They could use a SG now that Magette is gone and all they have is Gordon (a rookie).

:signit:

They still have Cuttino Mobley, right?

travmil
07-16-2008, 12:16 PM
I haven't read the thread, but I guess switching 2nd round picks gets you a guy who leads the league in Blocks and a Defensive player of the year.

Three 2nd rounders gets you James White.....

That isn't fair. Let's say the Pacers had gotten Marcus Camby for that deal instead of James White. For the last two years they would have effectively paid Camby $36 million (salary and luxury tax), and would be on the hook for another $18 million this year, because they were over the cap. The Clippers have no such worry as they are far enough under the cap to absorb his salary without paying the tax. I like Camby for his defense too but is he worth $54 million over three years?

Speed
07-16-2008, 12:23 PM
That isn't fair. Let's say the Pacers had gotten Marcus Camby for that deal instead of James White. For the last two years they would have effectively paid Camby $36 million (salary and luxury tax), and would be on the hook for another $18 million this year, because they were over the cap. The Clippers have no such worry as they are far enough under the cap to absorb his salary without paying the tax. I like Camby for his defense too but is he worth $54 million over three years?


No, I understand it from that perspective. I think it just goes to show how complicated it all really is.

It was my weak attempt at irony.

How much would you be ticked right now though if you are a Nugget fan.

travmil
07-16-2008, 12:24 PM
No, I understand it from that perspective. I think it just goes to show how complicated it all really is.

It was my weak attempt at irony.

How much would you be ticked right now though if you are a Nugget fan.

Probably a lot. I am already a little bit miffed about it as I've outline here and I'm not a Nugs fan at all.

Kegboy
07-16-2008, 12:49 PM
I like Camby for his defense too but is he worth $54 million over three years?

When you look at what we payed JO, yeah.

CableKC
07-16-2008, 01:02 PM
I like Camby for his defense too but is he worth $54 million over three years?
Yes, if we could have afforded him....I think that Camby's worth it.

Despite his age...Camby is a $11.5 mil per year Center that has consistently averaged 10ppg/11rpg/3bpg over the last 5 seasons that averaged 68 games during that time while being a solid defensive presense in the paint.

avoidingtheclowns
07-16-2008, 02:32 PM
Talking about thin up front, Who are the Nuggets going to rely on to be a healthy center for them?

ummm maybe you forgot hulk said he wanted to play in denver


I haven't read the thread, but I guess switching 2nd round picks gets you a guy who leads the league in Blocks and a Defensive player of the year.

Three 2nd rounders gets you James White.....

are you suggesting that marcus camby is better than flight?

Justin Tyme
07-16-2008, 03:31 PM
When I look at the "big picture", I definitely think the Nuggets lost on this deal....not as much as most people think they lost, but they definitely came up short on dealing Camby.

Although they would clearly benefit in moving any of the huge long-term contracts that they had ( Nene or KMart ), neither of them held as much value or was easier to move then Camby. Many people look at Camby as some 33 year old Injury prone Center that is past his prime that may or may not be overrated...if not overpaid. But I still think that he is worth it....not only because he still averages double-digit rebounds and is easily one of the top Shotblockers in the league ( over the last couple of seasons ) at 3 blocks per game... but he has decent trade value due to his expiring contract in the 2009-2010 season.

Despite being 34 years old and being paid $22mil over the next 2 seasons....any team that is competing for a Playoff spot over the next 2 years that needs a interior defensive presense would definitely have a need for a player like Camby.

If I were the Nuggets Owners....I would really consider firing the GM...or whoever makes the decision to make trades. Trading Camby anytime over the last 2 seasons was a no-brainer...it was something that had to be done. But for one reason or another....they sat on Camby until they had no choice but to get nothing for their only tradeable asset. But after the 2007-2008 trading deadline passed....the Nuggets had no choice but to trade a player that made more then $10+ mil and get back nothing so that they can remain under the Luxury Tax threshold.

That's the reason why the Nuggets lose out...not because they pretty much moved Camby for nothing.....it's cuz they could have gotten something of greater value over the last 2 seasons then the rights to swap 2nd round picks.


You say Camby should have been traded the last 2 years. From a view of getting value in a trade for Camby then maybe, BUT the Nuggets were trying to win a championship. They kept him and even got AI to go all out to win, especially with trying to keep Melo happy. It just didn't work out, but not that they didn't try. Could they have make that push for a championship w/o Camby? I doubt it. Just keep in mind, the Nuggets FO didn't make these decisions w/o ownership's approval.

As reported in today's Hoopshype, Stan Kroenke, the Nuggets owner, told the FO to trim salary from the team. You do what the owner says. Not every owner is Dolan with his deep pockets to buy out mistakes. Kroenke is the one who has to feel the deal was right to trade Camby, not anyone else. And yes, I bet the Nuggets fans are expressing their displeasure over it, but the bottom line is, it's a business. The Denver fans don't own the business, and they aren't the ones playing the bills. Stan Kroenke is.

Kinda reminds one of what the Pacers did a few weeks back with JO, not that anyone on this board was upset or voiced their displeasure concerning ownership/TPTB's decision, yeah right.

DrBadd01
07-16-2008, 05:24 PM
So if we gut the team down to being at least 8mm under the cap, we might get a 34 year old center. Can't wait!

lol. Great post.

Shade
07-19-2008, 03:46 PM
Great, great move by the Clippers. Camby's no Brand, but for the price, who can argue?

As for the Nuggets, they should be looking to move Iverson ASAP. They have officially missed their window.