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Hicks
07-15-2008, 04:59 PM
Just look at his quotes in the new article that popped up on Indystar from today's press conference.

Nothing about making all-star teams, or putting up X stats. Just working hard, doing what the team asks him to do, and being very aware that that includes defense as much as anything. I like what this kid has to say.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080715/SPORTS04/80715056/1088

OnlyPacersLeft
07-15-2008, 05:06 PM
very refreshing hicks....I mean why would he talk about being an all star...he has no hype around him. No one expects him to be a great NBA player or a hall of famer. He is projected to be just that...a role player. So why expect him to say different?

Coop
07-15-2008, 05:12 PM
very refreshing hicks....I mean why would he talk about being an all star...he has no hype around him. No one expects him to be a great NBA player or a hall of famer. He is projected to be just that...a role player. So why expect him to say different?

I'm pretty sure he was referring to how Harrison acted after he was drafted. *removed* Demeaning and unnecessary*

naptownmenace
07-15-2008, 05:14 PM
Other than the fact that he played at the same school as Ewing, Mutombo, and Mourning there is little other comparisons to be made between Hibbert and them. Those guys were absolute beasts by comparison.

I like Roy, he's no slouch, and I'm glad the Pacers were able to draft him. It just cracks me up every time I read an article that mentions Hibbert, Georgetown, and their 3 other stud Centers in the same the same sentence.


That said, I think he'll be a major improvement over Harrison and exactly what the Pacers need from a back up center. He could develop into a starter in a season or two.

Hicks
07-15-2008, 05:22 PM
very refreshing hicks....I mean why would he talk about being an all star...he has no hype around him. No one expects him to be a great NBA player or a hall of famer. He is projected to be just that...a role player. So why expect him to say different?

Expectations didn't stop David Harrison from stating his goal of being an all-star coming in as a rookie. You don't have to look long for a comparison that dressed in blue & gold.

avoidingtheclowns
07-15-2008, 05:28 PM
You don't have to look long for a comparison that dressed in blue & gold.

he probably thought you meant ex-blue & golder JO since he is currently being criticized by PD for talking about returning to "elite" status and "dominating" and "all-star level"

BlueNGold
07-15-2008, 05:32 PM
This part means quite a bit:

"Hibbert was the leading scorer (13.4), rebounder (6.4) and shot blocker (2.2) for a team that won the Big East (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080715/SPORTS04/80715056/1088#) regular-season title and went 28-6."

I don't care what the guy looks like, he delivers at both ends of the floor for a very good team. BTW, foot speed for an NBA center is pretty far down the list of critical skills.

This next part tells me his head is in the right place. It's been a long, long time since anyone wearing the Blue and Gold have vowed to own the paint. I love this part:

"Definitely, I bring size. The paint, the yellow, is my area. Definitely, I want to make sure I keep everything out of there. Offensively, I’m going to find my niche. Whatever they need me to do, I’m going to do.”

count55
07-15-2008, 05:39 PM
mmmmm.....minty!

duke dynamite
07-15-2008, 05:46 PM
Nice.

Naptown_Seth
07-15-2008, 06:10 PM
"Hibbert was the leading scorer (13.4), rebounder (6.4) and shot blocker (2.2) for a team that won the Big East (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080715/SPORTS04/80715056/1088#) regular-season title and went 28-6."

I don't care what the guy looks like, he delivers at both ends of the floor for a very good team. BTW, foot speed for an NBA center is pretty far down the list of critical skills.

The Big East was something of a letdown this year. Green and Thabeet weren't exactly monster challenges for Hibbert. Like the kid, had bigger hopes for him this NCAA season, but if he becomes really solid in the NBA I'll consider it a nice improvement on his part.

To me he's a safe, smart, good kid pick at 17. He's got the size and the personality to become better than his draft position, but right now let's not think of him as a top 5 pick at center.

PR07
07-15-2008, 06:15 PM
Hibbert probably will never be a Ewing, Mutombo, or Mourning, but he still came from that same great big man bloodline. Georgetown knows how to develop some solid big man. Yes, there have been some flops too, but I think we have a solid one in Hibbert. He may not be an eye-popping athlete, but his teams win games, and that's the bottomline.

Coop
07-15-2008, 06:31 PM
Wow. Cry me a freaking river..Too many softies around here.

Rajah Brown
07-15-2008, 06:47 PM
Perhaps Hibbert's priority is actually 'winning'. They all say it is, but
for some (many ?), it's not really at the top of their list.

Taterhead
07-15-2008, 06:56 PM
There are two concerns for me regarding Roy. Rebounding and potential foul problems. I think David Harrison is very comparable to Roy on the court, minus the passing ability. But I do think Roy might just have the mental make-up that Harrison didn't to actually fulfill the potential Harrison couldn't.

I know this for certain, Roy won't throw hissy fits everytime he gets called for a foul then go home and roll-up to calm his nerves.

Arcadian
07-15-2008, 07:15 PM
I'm look forward to seeing Roy "The Monitor" Hibbert progress in the league. It will be refreshing rooting for a guy to overcome his perhaps perceived lack of athleticism rather than his pot habit.

Putnam
07-15-2008, 07:28 PM
I'm pretty sure he was referring to how Harrison acted after he was drafted. *removed* Demeaning and unnecessary*



Referring to the excised comment? Or to David Harrison?

MagicRat
07-15-2008, 07:36 PM
mmmmm.....minty!

I thought I noticed a hint of Lymon......

BlueNGold
07-15-2008, 07:37 PM
The Big East was something of a letdown this year. Green and Thabeet weren't exactly monster challenges for Hibbert. Like the kid, had bigger hopes for him this NCAA season, but if he becomes really solid in the NBA I'll consider it a nice improvement on his part.

To me he's a safe, smart, good kid pick at 17. He's got the size and the personality to become better than his draft position, but right now let's not think of him as a top 5 pick at center.

Yes, I don't consider him a top 5 pick....not even during my optimistic moments. BTW, if he were a Ewing or Zo type player, we would have acquired our next franchise player. I really doubt that happened here....but if he ever becomes as valuable in his own way as a Dale Davis or even an Antonio, we will have really done well. The biggest concern I have for him is the pick and roll. Otherwise, he really doesn't have to move that quickly. If the other team has a speedy center in there, Roy is just not playing.

Hicks
07-15-2008, 08:09 PM
Wow. Cry me a freaking river..Too many softies around here.

And who is that addressed to, specifically?

D23
07-15-2008, 08:10 PM
So, everyone's talking about who Roy should not be compared to (Ewing, Zo, Mutombo, etc)... does anyone have any opinions on which current/past players you think his game does compare to? To be honest I didn't see him play much in college, only a couple of games, so I'm just curious about his style. Someone want to throw out a "best case/worst case" comparison like they do in the draft?

I definitely like his attitude and demeanor. If he's as hard of a worker as I've heard, it'll definitely be easy to cheer for him.

And I definitely used the word definitely too many times in that sentence. Definitely.

Speed
07-15-2008, 08:49 PM
Ilgauskas?

Putnam
07-15-2008, 08:50 PM
does anyone have any opinions on which current/past players you think his game does compare to? And I definitely used the word definitely too many times in that sentence. Definitely.

Remember how Dale Davis used to say "Def'ily."


Hibbert will be as good as Brad Miller.

CableKC
07-15-2008, 09:18 PM
So, everyone's talking about who Roy should not be compared to (Ewing, Zo, Mutombo, etc)... does anyone have any opinions on which current/past players you think his game does compare to? To be honest I didn't see him play much in college, only a couple of games, so I'm just curious about his style. Someone want to throw out a "best case/worst case" comparison like they do in the draft?

I definitely like his attitude and demeanor. If he's as hard of a worker as I've heard, it'll definitely be easy to cheer for him.

And I definitely used the word definitely too many times in that sentence. Definitely.
At worst.....I'm gonna say a much smarter, far more mature and emotionally stable version of the 2007-2008 version of Harrison ( when JO'B was praising him for his defense last season ) that can take up space in the paint, alter shots of players that drive to the hoop while causing problems for opposing Big Men and providing a decent Shotblocking presense.

I know that there were times last season when Harrison was driving most of you crazy....but once Harrison figured out that he can be as effective in the paint by simply planting his feet and raising his hands in the air......there were times when Harrison actually did a very good job of defending the paint while filling in as the "Big Man" off the bench.

Keep in mind...this is worst case scenario that I'm talking about....I'm hoping for a Patrick Ewing best case scenario.

Hicks
07-15-2008, 09:28 PM
What is similar between Ewing and Hibbert? I wasn't watching (much) in Ewing's hay-day.

Kuq_e_Zi91
07-15-2008, 09:32 PM
I believe I've compared him to a bigger Chris Webber before, because of his passing ability out of the post and double team. He's got some nice moves out of the post as well. He loves that hook shot.

BlueNGold
07-15-2008, 09:40 PM
What is similar between Ewing and Hibbert? I wasn't watching (much) in Ewing's hay-day.

I watched Ewing for years. Some similarities but a very different offensive game. Ewing was much better in college and I suspect was a #1 pick or close to it. Ewing was more mobile and probably more gifted offensively. I seriously doubt Roy reaches that level...but I'm not about to hold him back. Roy is bigger for sure...but not as talented IMO...

Edit: Ewing was more like JO...but less in the post. Ewing's meat and potato shot was taking a few steps across the lane, then going up for a 8 or 10 foot jay. When he got it going he was about unstoppable.

BlueNGold
07-15-2008, 09:46 PM
At worst.....I'm gonna say a much smarter, far more mature and emotionally stable version of the 2007-2008 version of Harrison ( when JO'B was praising him for his defense last season ) that can take up space in the paint, alter shots of players that drive to the hoop while causing problems for opposing Big Men and providing a decent Shotblocking presense.

I know that there were times last season when Harrison was driving most of you crazy....but once Harrison figured out that he can be as effective in the paint by simply planting his feet and raising his hands in the air......there were times when Harrison actually did a very good job of defending the paint while filling in as the "Big Man" off the bench.

Keep in mind...this is worst case scenario that I'm talking about....I'm hoping for a Patrick Ewing best case scenario.

...and one other thing. I think Roy is a bit longer in addition to a little taller. Harrison has T-Rex arms and had to jump to block shots. I suspect Roy will draw less fouls...hopefully because he should play under control.

KennerLeaguer
07-15-2008, 10:14 PM
Other than the fact that he played at the same school as Ewing, Mutombo, and Mourning there is little other comparisons to be made between Hibbert and them. Those guys were absolute beasts by comparison.

.


I hear what you're saying, but watching the Hoyas and taping games for about twenty years now I would put Hibbert's career at GU ahead of Mutombo's. Clearly Mutombo was the better rebounder and defender. But Roy''s all around game was superior and his teams ultimately had more success. Don't forget also that the far slower pace of Roy's teams may not make Roy's numbers look all that great, but when you judge them by possessions per game they truly stand out. Also Roy was a Second Team All Big East Player in his soph season and a consensus First Team All Big East selection during his last two years. Those same two years he also made All Big East Tournament Team and in his senior season made Second Team All American. Not too bad for a "disappointing season."

John Thompson Jr (the former Hoya coach) on his Radio Show the past couple of years was very vocal about both Jeff Green and Roy Hibbert being too passive at times. He suggested that they brought into the team concept too much (interesting suggestion) and that when it comes to crunch time "stars have to be stars." He was not a guy to compare modern players (including current Hoya players) favorably to those of the past. He would never, for example, put Hibbert's defensive ability at the level of Mutombo and Mourning's. But he has said that when it comes to offensive skill and offensive ability that Hibbert is superior to both of those guys. Those of you who don't keep up with Gtown basketball and have not had a chance to see Hibbert much, may not see eye to eye on that (especially when it comes to Mourning) but I feel JT is correct. Alonzo Mourning is my all time fave Hoya. I started watching the Hoyas when I was just a kid and Alonzo had joined the team. But as much as I love Zo, his offense was a bit predictable. He willed his way to scoring thinks to taking the ball to the basket strong and getting fouled a lot (especially his final year at GU). But when playoff basketball came around Zo's numbers on offense tended to take a bit of a hit because he never had great footwork, never had a true face up game, never developed great postup moves, was a below average passer for even a big man and never had a single legit go-to move (his hook shot was somewhat of a joke because it would roll down his hand before he could release it). And his height of 6'9 made scoring even tougher. But he was a warrior and a man who gave it his all. And he was the best shotblocker I had ever seen. So fearless that he didn't mind getting dunked on a lot (most big men are cowards on that front) because he would still try blocking shots anyway. But, man, on offense if you took away his right hand, as the Bulls first exposed during MJ's comeback when the Bulls played the Hornets, you could make the game a challenge for Zo on offense.

With Hibbert you take away his right and he could go to his left and just be as (or almost as ) effective. You double him and he will find the right teammate to pass it to quickly. You leave him alone near the free throw line and he can knock that shot down in his sleep. On offense his footwork, his dropsteps, his back-to-the basket game, his touch off the glass, his ability to go with either hand, his ability to put the ball on the floor and drive (yes, mark my words, folks, because he has done this numerous times at GU), his pivot reverses are all better than Zo's when you compare their abilities leaving college. And he has a hook shot that is good as I've seen from any college big man in my two decades of watching college basketball. I'm not saying its Jabbar Sky Hook Level or anything. But since he's been at Gtown they were teaching him the Mikan Drill and he worked on those basics every day. His hook shot has been pro level for a couple of years now. And if he can get those shots off against tall and athletic guys he faced off against like Joakim Noah, Greg Oden and Thabeet then I'm guessing he can get those shots off against almost any NBA big men.

And lets not even bring Mutombo into the equation here. Hibbert's offensive game is far ahead of where Dikembe's was when he graduated. Hibbert broke a Big East Record for best FG percentage during a season. Patrick Ewing Sr raves to everyone he can not about Hibbert's defense, but what he can do on offense. Hibbert impressed all the teams he worked out for with his ability to score, shoot, pass, catch. It was almost criminal that Hibbert only got about eight shots per game his final two seasons. But because of the system in place and because of Hibbert not being aggressive as he should have been (arguably his grestest weakness) and his overeagerness to blend in and set up his teammates for open shots, he didn't put up a high volume of fg attempts.

What I'm trying to say is that any writer who says that the one thing Hibbert can do is help the Pacers with their defense and rebounding is a lazy writer who doesn't really know anything about Roy. Yeah, Hibbert could help in those areas but his strength is what he can do on offense. Don't expect Mutombo Part 2 on defense and on the boards. While Hibbert will work hard on that front and make a difference, he isn't as good as Mutombo in those areas. His strength instead lies in how polished he is on offense, how efficient he is on offense. There were a lot of guys putting together statistical analysis to rate the big guys coming out of college this year and Roy was at or near the top of every last one. His shotblocking was outstanding if you factor in the few possessions the Hoyas had, but he realy stood out in the offensive categories. For example he was like one of only two big guys who had a relatively great assist to turnover ratio. Its stuff like that that makes him an intriguing prospect. You talk to a guy like college basketball analyst Len Elmore, who was an All American in college and a solid pro, and after calling games for ESPN and CBS with Roy involved he has said on TV, as recent as this past March, that Roy has yet to scratch the surface of his true potential. Roy's college coach has been saying for years that where Roy will be four or so years into his NBA career is lightyears of where he is/was as a junior/senior in college. Jim O'Brien feels too that Hibbert is going to be an even better pro player than college player. Only time will tell.

I do feel good about the fact that O'Brien is the type of guy who won't accept Roy just blending in. He will ask and expect Roy to be more aggressive when he has the ball in his hands.

ChicagoJ
07-15-2008, 10:49 PM
Big. Intelligent. Slow. Fundamental. Methodical. Concerned with PnR defense. Smits.

docpaul
07-15-2008, 11:30 PM
I do feel good about the fact that O'Brien is the type of guy who won't accept Roy just blending in. He will ask and expect Roy to be more aggressive when he has the ball in his hands.

Thanks for taking the time to write this. I enjoyed it, and gained some new insight about Roy. Time to revisit his college statistics. :)

croz24
07-15-2008, 11:50 PM
hibbert at #17 is a MUCH better pick than rush at #13

CableKC
07-16-2008, 12:12 AM
What is similar between Ewing and Hibbert? I wasn't watching (much) in Ewing's hay-day.
I was totally guessing there....when I think of comparing Hibbert to a tall lumbering Center that has an offensive game that comes out of Georgetown....I think of Ewing :shrug:

CableKC
07-16-2008, 12:23 AM
What I'm trying to say is that any writer who says that the one thing Hibbert can do is help the Pacers with their defense and rebounding is a lazy writer who doesn't really know anything about Roy. Yeah, Hibbert could help in those areas but his strength is what he can do on offense. Don't expect Mutombo Part 2 on defense and on the boards. While Hibbert will work hard on that front and make a difference, he isn't as good as Mutombo in those areas. His strength instead lies in how polished he is on offense, how efficient he is on offense. There were a lot of guys putting together statistical analysis to rate the big guys coming out of college this year and Roy was at or near the top of every last one. His shotblocking was outstanding if you factor in the few possessions the Hoyas had, but he realy stood out in the offensive categories. For example he was like one of only two big guys who had a relatively great assist to turnover ratio. Its stuff like that that makes him an intriguing prospect. You talk to a guy like college basketball analyst Len Elmore, who was an All American in college and a solid pro, and after calling games for ESPN and CBS with Roy involved he has said on TV, as recent as this past March, that Roy has yet to scratch the surface of his true potential. Roy's college coach has been saying for years that where Roy will be four or so years into his NBA career is lightyears of where he is/was as a junior/senior in college. Jim O'Brien feels too that Hibbert is going to be an even better pro player than college player. Only time will tell.

I do feel good about the fact that O'Brien is the type of guy who won't accept Roy just blending in. He will ask and expect Roy to be more aggressive when he has the ball in his hands.
Very good read...thanks KennerLeaguer. A Big Man that is an efficient scoring threat? I don't remember when was the last time we had an efficient scoring Big Man.

KennerLeaguer
07-16-2008, 12:53 AM
Here are three articles that covered Hibbert and the Hoyas after the win against West Virginia in the Big East Tournament back in March. They cover the mystery that is Roy Hibbert. How somehow he can excite the masses and sometimes dumbfound them. Each one covers the frustration over the feeling that Hibbert should dominate even more. I think all give you a balance look. The good with the bad; the possibilities and the possible disappointments.


SportsIllustrated.cnn.com

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_blogs/ncaa_tourney/2008/
3/15/2008 12:01:00 AM
Roy In Full

Luke Winn


NEW YORK -- On Thursday at the Big East tournament, we saw Roy Hibbert, Georgetown's 7-foot-2 giant, reduced to a space-eater on the Hoyas' bench -- essentially no more than a set of long legs for his teammates to avoid tripping over while making their way in and out of their 82-63 win over Villanova. Hibbert had more fouls (five) than points (zero) and rebounds (four) combined, and managed to stay on the floor for just 14 minutes. If there was one thing to worry about after that rout, it was that Georgetown's senior star was a non-factor in one of his final games leading up to his last NCAA tournament.

In the 29 hours between that victory and Friday's 72-55 semifinal win over West Virginia, it seems that a tempest of emotion built up inside the normally low-key Hibbert. He said he did not need his coach, John Thompson III, to say a thing about redeeming himself against West Virginia. Hibbert ignored calls coming in to his cell-phone, and said even the Instant Message he received from Jeff Green, the star of last year's Hoya Final Four run, was unnecessary. It had said, merely, "You know what you need to do."

The task at hand was to show the nation Roy Hibbert In Full. Not just the lumbering big man who had led Georgetown in points (13.1) and rebounds (6.3) this season, but the Roy with a shot of adrenaline and a crazy streak mixed in. The Roy who not only outrebounded the Mountaineers' entire front line (he had 13), but also chose to flex -- in an imitation of the new ESPN barbed-wire commercial, he said -- while coming off the court for a second-half timeout. The Roy who not only scored a season-high 25 points, but celebrated his final basket, an and-one bunny at the 5:05 mark, by strutting toward press row and repeatedly yelling, "I'm a monster!"

When Hibbert stepped to the free-throw line shortly afterward, and thumped his right fist against his chest a few times for good measure, one of the referees approached him with a joking admonishment. "He told me," Hibbert said, "that [the gestures] looked tacky."

Perhaps, but everything else Hibbert did contributed to a stunning exhibition of all-around skill for one of the college game's few true centers. Hibbert scored in nearly every way imaginable on Friday. His first bucket -- "one that set the tone for the game," he said -- came on a follow-up dunk of a missed three-pointer by DaJuan Summers at the 17:56 mark. Less than four minutes later, Hibbert knocked down a three-pointer from the top of the key, not looking the least bit awkward in the process. When West Virginia used a smaller defender to front Hibbert, he caught a lob pass and went up for an easy slam.

After going into halftime with 13 points, Hibbert unveiled the rest of his repertoire in the second 20 minutes. That included scoring on a right-handed hook over Joe Alexander; a layup that was goaltended; and a putback in transition that was a reward for trailing a Jessie Sapp fast-break rather than lingering back on the defensive end.

"I knew he was going to come out hungry," Sapp said of Hibbert, "so we wanted to keep feeding him and feeding him. It wasn't just his scoring [that mattered]. It was his rebounds and his energy. We fed off him today -- and we need him in a game like that for us to be successful throughout the rest of the season."

Louisville coach Rick Pitino recently called the Hoyas "lucky" because they won close (and often controversial) games over Villanova, West Virginia, Marquette and Louisville to clinch the conference's regular-season title. ("God bless them," said Pitino. "They're closer to heaven than we are.") And therefore "luck" has become a media buzzword here at the Big East tournament, with every Georgetown player getting peppered with questions about it, and Big John Thompson using "we were lucky" as a refrain in his postgame interactions with the Hoyas.

This mini-controversy has obscured the fact that Georgetown has managed to win two games in New York in two incredibly disparate ways, first beating Villanova on a hailstorm of 17 threes and then beating West Virginia by riding Big Roy.

Senior guard Jonathan Wallace, who had five treys on Thursday and three more on Friday, said it "doesn't matter" whether opposing defenses choose to pack down on Hibbert or attempt to challenge shots on the perimeter. The option he prefers as Georgetown makes its run at a second straight Final Four, though, is to win with Hibbert as the focal point. "It creates a more balanced game," said Wallace. "We didn't shoot as many threes [against WVU] as we did against Villanova, but Roy was really anchored down in the middle, which allowed guys to still get a lot of open looks. [His breakout] came at the right time."


After Hibbert sat at the podium for the postgame press conference and explained what he had yelled -- the "I'm a monster" line -- Thompson III leaned over, with a faux-incredulous look on his face, and used the back of his left hand to act like he was taking Hibbert's temperature. If this is what a fever does to Big Roy, Georgetown best pray it turns into a month-long illness.

KennerLeaguer
07-16-2008, 01:01 AM
Boston Globe

http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/mens_basketball/articles/2008/03/15/hibbert_submits_big_game/?page=2


BOB RYAN

Hibbert submits big game

By Bob Ryan, Globe Columnist | March 15, 2008

NEW YORK - Not to oversimplify things, but the story of Georgetown's 72-55 victory over West Virginia last night can be summed up in five words.
The Big Fella showed up.

Roy Hibbert had 25 points and 13 rebounds, but those are just numbers. He owned this game, pure and simple.

The Hoyas got by with no tangible help from Hibbert the night before. But when you knock down 17 3-pointers, it probably doesn't matter too much that your gentlemanly giant (7 feet 2 inches) never once got into the Big East quarterfinal against Villanova, fouling out while pitching a shutout, as in 0-0-0. That's right: He went 0-0-0 and he fouled out.

Someday an enterprising author will make a few million bucks by figuring out the thought process of the big men who play this game, and by big men I'm talking about the 7-footers, who all too often send their coaches to shrink after expensive shrink. The simple truth is that a lot of these big people really don't want to play this game. Nature has played a cruel trick on them, giving them a (supposed) body for basketball while giving them a personal taste for everything from, in one case I knew, scuba diving, to art, to, well, books.

I can't tell you if Hibbert is one of these conflicted souls. He seems to be a polite, thoughtful young man, for whatever that's worth. I don't know if he has the proverbial fire in the belly that will make him a star in the NBA. But I do know he has the talent to excel in this game, and I rather suspect West Virginia coach Bob Huggins does, too, after what Hibbert did to his Mountaineers at Madison Square Garden.

"He's a really good player," Huggins confirmed. "I don't know what I was expecting, but I was expecting us to guard him better than we did. He played a really good game. He played very aggressively."

There is no doubt Hibbert came into last night's game with the intention of asserting himself. "I wanted to establish myself down low," he said. "Not just score."


Georgetown coach John Thompson III did not want to attribute his big man's performance to anything more than circumstance. "Villanova's game plan, and they executed it very well, was to sit three people on him, and that's what they did," said Thompson. "There was no need for any powwow today. He's not going to play that way again."

I'm sure Villanova collapsed on Hibbert, but, c'mon. Was that the first time in his Georgetown career a team has paid an inordinate amount of attention to him? No way. I'm sure he and his teammates react to this attention with varying degrees of efficiency, but 0-0-0? That's incomprehensible.

That's incomprehensible because Hibbert, to borrow Tim Hardaway's old phrase, has skillzz.

Here are some of the things Hibbert did last night to send West Virginia home.

He tip-dunked an offensive rebound to get Geogetown started.

He nailed an early straightaway 3-pointer.

He twice ran the floor to make fast-break dunks.

He made a steal of a Wellington Smith dribble right in front of the Georgetown bench.

He blocked a shot.

He made a running lefthanded hook. That's right; I said hook.

He made a running righthanded hook. That's right; I said hook.

He had 10 offensive rebounds, accounting for 8 points for Hibbert and 8 points for other Hoyas.

He made a nice move to the hoop, drawing a foul and then screaming to the world, "I'm a monster!"

He's not, of course, and that's the issue. Is he planning on playing this way again, and if so, when?

What a colossal tease Hibbert must be for NBA scouts. We are constantly being told that old-fashioned centers are dinosaurs, that the game is going over to quicker, smaller guys and you don't need to have a true center to win. But here comes a 7-2 kid who has nice basketball skills - have I mentioned that in this game he showed off righthanded and lefthanded hooks? - and who has on certain occasions taken over games and bent opponents to his will, as he did last night. Ask Al Skinner. Hibbert sent Boston College home from the NCAA Tournament with one of these stellar performances last year.

However . . .

The however is that either because of his own (apparent) passive personality, or the way he's been coached, he has too many games in which he's no factor. For one thing, the young man only averages a shade over eight field goal attempts a game. That's borderline criminal. He's 7-2. He's quick. He's agile. He has really nice post-up moves. How can he only get eight shots a game?

Granted, he was doing most of his damage last night against people 7 or 8 inches shorter. West Virginia starts a 7-footer named Jamie Smalligan, but he generally gets pulled early, and played a typically ineffective 12 minutes last night during which he attempted no shots and had no rebounds. In the NBA, Hibbert will never be in that blissful circumstance. There will be other very large people to contend with, and the 6-8 and 6-9 guys will all be amazingly athletic.

But in the here and now, Roy Hibbert, based on talent, really ought to dominate most games. But I don't know him well enough to say what's going on inside his head. All I know is that when he plays as he did last night, he's a pleasure to watch and Georgetown is going to win.

KennerLeaguer
07-16-2008, 01:10 AM
CBSSports.com

http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/10716941

Soft? Hard? Roy's story a big Georgetown enigma so far

March 17, 2008By Mike FreemanCBSSports.com National Columnist

Who is Roy Hibbert?

He's an exhilarating beast, an intimidator, a face-breaker, a game changer capable of taking his Georgetown Hoyas on his muscled shoulders and smashing all that is animal or mineral.


"I'm a monster," Hibbert shouted after almost single handedly crushing West Virginia in the Big East tournament semifinals. "Be afraid!"

"He has the talent to be one of the best big men to come along in the last few years," one NBA scout, who asked not to be identified, said in an interview. "He could be better than Yao Ming."

Who is Roy Hibbert?

Some say he is as soft as a freshly fallen twig, too gooey and cuddly to fill the solar-system-sized hole that is the legacy of the Georgetown center. A monster? Yeah, sure, his critics maintain. He's not a monster. He's Shawn Bradley.

"I look at the talent and I drool," said another NBA scout. "But he should dominate a lot more than he does."

So who is Hibbert? It depends on whom you ask because apparently one set of eyes can spot a Ming while another can see a 7-footer who needs to be more merciless.

Is he that self-proclaimed monster or too erudite? Is he dominant or not dominant enough for such a gargantuan talent?

The contrasting views of the NBA scouts demonstrate the contrasting views many have of Hibbert. One said he would take Hibbert, "in his sleep in the top five or three," while the other scout felt Hibbert wasn't consistent enough to merit a top 10 selection.

If there was one player who could be the biggest key to the NCAA tournament, it is Hibbert, yet he is also the biggest enigma.

If Hibbert can channel his inner Willis Reed in the NCAA tournament then you can pencil the Hoyas into the Final Four with the kind of confidence Denzel Washington feels when he walks into a room full of single women.

However, if Hibbert forgets to pack his elbows and is the perimeter Hibbert, the Cottonelle Hibbert who seems to enjoy the panoramic vistas outside of the paint instead of the blood and guts battle within it, then both Hibbert and the Hoyas could be in trouble.

Hibbert clearly isn't the orthodox center-ian. He's not a consistent pounder-and-effort guy, which might account for his schizophrenic game.

The Big East should be perfect for a big like Hibbert. Big East basketball, just like in the time of Pat Ewing and Alonzo Mourning and Dikembe Mutombo, is Ronaldinho ugly. It's a perfect fit for a towering center: lots of pushing and shoving and bad shooting and rebounds to be had.

Only in many instances Hibbert doesn't seem to like, well, being a center. He is often pulled away from the basket like a child's small toy caught in an eddy.

The recent Big East tournament was typical Hibbert. There were times when he looked like Bill Walton and other moments when he played like Bill Murray.

Against Villanova, Hibbert had five fouls, no field goals, no points, no free throws and no blocks in 14 minutes. It seems impossible for a man 7-2 to have that kind of stat line but Hibbert did.

Then, just 24 hours later, Hibbert obliterated West Virginia, scoring 25 points and recording a season-high 13 rebounds along with two blocks, two assists and a steal. It was a brilliant performance as Hibbert stayed close to the basket and intimidated Mountaineer defenders.

Hibbert declared himself a monster after that performance but it remains unknown what kind of monster he'll be once the tournament begins. Will Hibbert be a shot-blocking ogre or a ghost with a flimsy atomic weight?

Just who is Roy Hibbert? We may soon get a definitive answer.

stew
07-16-2008, 01:24 AM
thanks for the articles KennerLeaguer..

one thing I want to know, what is his skill level compared to :
Robin Lopez
Marreese Speights
McGee
Alexis Ajinca
Koufus

imawhat
07-16-2008, 02:02 AM
It was almost criminal that Hibbert only got about eight shots per game his final two seasons.

I completely agree. It's the first thing that stuck out to me about Georgetown's offense, and Hibbert's skill-level. Hibbert is easily more advance offensively than defensively. But apparently this will come as a surprise to Pacers fans.

Placebo
07-16-2008, 02:10 AM
thanks for the articles KennerLeaguer..

one thing I want to know, what is his skill level compared to :
Robin Lopez
Marreese Speights
McGee
Alexis Ajinca
Koufus

What do you mean by skill level?
Those are all very different type of players... Maybe you can compare McGee with Ajinca but that's all. For my Pacers I think my list would go like this:

Hibbert (that's a very tough one between Hibbert and Speights, but I am going with the guy with the character)
Speights
Ajinca
Lopez
Koufos
McGee

I like what we did with our #17...

Bball
07-16-2008, 03:03 AM
Big. Intelligent. Slow. Fundamental. Methodical. Concerned with PnR defense. Smits.

I don't think it's fair that we compare him to Smits....

















...until we know how Hibbert handles a dirt bike...

:rimshot:

Putnam
07-16-2008, 08:10 AM
Question for KennerLeager, and for anyone else who has an opinion.

Considering Hibbert's maturity, tendency for passivity and all the rest, what will be best for him this season:

A back-up role where he gets 12-15 minutes in the 2nd and 3rd quarters?
A starting role and the pressure of knowing that the Pacers' are committed to him at center?
Kept on the bench as a 3rd stringer, but lots of attention in practices and lots of mentorship from Foster and Rasho?
It is clear he has more to show than he did at Georgetown, but what is the best way to bring him into the NBA?

Hicks
07-16-2008, 08:30 AM
Thanks for taking the time to write this. I enjoyed it, and gained some new insight about Roy. Time to revisit his college statistics. :)

I wanted to echo this, Kenner, I've found your posts to be very informative about Roy. Frankly, you have me excited about him.

Doug
07-16-2008, 10:27 AM
All players drafted have skills.

The thing that separates the 'players' from the 'busts' is how much they are willing to work - to improve the skills they have and address their weaknesses.

Hibbert is saying the right things.

Of course, this is easier said that done. We can look at several Pacers draft picks who said the right things but didn't have the will to do them.

Vince Neil
07-16-2008, 10:32 AM
rush at #13

I'm not feeling warm and fuzzy about this either.

But on the other hand, I wanted Donnie to take Alford at #11 over Reggie back in '87. I was only 17 at the time so that is my excuse.

ChicagoJ
07-16-2008, 11:23 AM
I don't think it's fair that we compare him to Smits....


...until we know how Hibbert handles a dirt bike...

:rimshot:

True. But one can not deny that the adjectives used to describe Hibbert are the same as the ones to describe Smits for most of his career. Just like the adjectives to describe Rush are similar to the ones to describe Reggie. Then again, the adjectives for Kobe Bryant and Bracy Wright were similar too...

As I said in the other thread, I finally see the vision for this franchise: "build a team that can compete in the 1990s." In three years or so, Larry Bird will appoint himself to be the coach.

CableKC
07-16-2008, 12:17 PM
Question for KennerLeager, and for anyone else who has an opinion.

Considering Hibbert's maturity, tendency for passivity and all the rest, what will be best for him this season:

A back-up role where he gets 12-15 minutes in the 2nd and 3rd quarters?
A starting role and the pressure of knowing that the Pacers' are committed to him at center?
Kept on the bench as a 3rd stringer, but lots of attention in practices and lots of mentorship from Foster and Rasho?
It is clear he has more to show than he did at Georgetown, but what is the best way to bring him into the NBA?
Unless Hibbert is "heads and shoulders" above what Rasho and Foster can contribute....which I doubt despite being NBA-Ready....I think that it would be best to break him slowly and see how things go.

I am more inclined to go with "Backup role with 12-15 minutes a game" ( as long as it is a very consistent 12-15 minutes a game....even if he makes mistakes ) or ( at worst ) "kept on the bench as a 3rd stringer being mentored by Rasho and Foster".

Since86
07-16-2008, 12:28 PM
All players drafted have skills.

The thing that separates the 'players' from the 'busts' is how much they are willing to work - to improve the skills they have and address their weaknesses.

Hibbert is saying the right things.

Of course, this is easier said that done. We can look at several Pacers draft picks who said the right things but didn't have the will to do them.

I wouldn't say they have skills, especially for the big men. Saying McGee has skills is pretty far off. He's big, long, and awkward. (TWSS) If he's not dunking or getting an easy layup, he's shooting a shot with his feet practically backwards.

Big men usually are the projects, because as the saying goes, 'you can't teach size.'

Hibbert has excellent footwork, and can actually do something with the ball instead of trying to push people over or getting easy dunks.

Potential for big men make big time busts. Kwame Brown to name one. Then you get big men that aren't big on potential but have decent to solid skills and you get players like Mihm.

Doug
07-16-2008, 12:38 PM
I wouldn't say they have skills, especially for the big men.

Big men usually are the projects, because as the saying goes, 'you can't teach size.'

Point taken. Perhaps I should have said 'desirable attributes' or something like that instead of 'skills' which implies things like shooting, or dribbling, or rebounding.

However, I think the point of my statement is still correct.

The package of attributes that got you drafted is not as important as what you do to improve those attributes. Some players can stick around in the league without improving, but the ones who last, the ones who make their mark in the league are the ones that put in the effort to improve.

Since86
07-16-2008, 12:48 PM
The package of attributes that got you drafted is not as important as what you do to improve those attributes. Some players can stick around in the league without improving, but the ones who last, the ones who make their mark in the league are the ones that put in the effort to improve.

Whole heartedly agree.

I think Arenas is one of the best examples. If you look at him just as an athlete type, he doesn't stand out one iota on a court of other NBA players. But what he does inbetween games or inbetween seasons makes him the player that he is.

There are those upper tier players that are upper tier because of their work ethic rather than their phsyical gifts. Players become Darius Miles or Steve Francis if they think they're just going to dunk on people and be successful.

KennerLeaguer
07-16-2008, 01:58 PM
Question for KennerLeager, and for anyone else who has an opinion.

Considering Hibbert's maturity, tendency for passivity and all the rest, what will be best for him this season:

A back-up role where he gets 12-15 minutes in the 2nd and 3rd quarters?
A starting role and the pressure of knowing that the Pacers' are committed to him at center?
Kept on the bench as a 3rd stringer, but lots of attention in practices and lots of mentorship from Foster and Rasho?
It is clear he has more to show than he did at Georgetown, but what is the best way to bring him into the NBA?

Depends on the situation, right? If he performs better than the other big men in camp or at least is close enough to them in production that one thinks he will soon surpass them over the course of his first season, then you are going to want to give him a bunch of minutes. Still even if that's the case you may prefer to have him come off the bench the first ten or so games. Regardless he's mature enough now and has spent enough time under the bright lights to be mentally ready to be able to handle a large or starting role after he gets a few games under his belt.

If he doesn't perform as well as the Pacers hope during training camp and the preseason, that's when you start looking at option 1 and 3 that you listed.

Since86
07-16-2008, 01:59 PM
OH NO! RED FLAG! RED FLAG RED FLAG!

Please, oh God, please get Ronny Thompson away from Hibbert NOW!

I don't know much about JTIII, from all accounts he seems like a man with his head on straight but his brother Ronny is BAD NEWS.

He coached Ball State for a year and set the whole program/university back 5. They posted the worst record, 9-22 ever, and on top of that he's a racist bigot. I'm not over exaggerating one bit.

He fired the basketball secretary that had been there for over 30yrs, told the U that he didn't want anything to do with the head athletic trainer and that he would bring in his own. The AT was Tony Cox, who is the head AT for the NFL combine every year, so it's not like he's some no name.

I hang out with some of the guys on the basketball team and they've told me point blank that he would say things like, (and I quote) "You can't trust white people. They're all out to get you." Said he would just stop film sessions and say things like that. It got so bad that a very predominate player was looking into transferring half way through the season and go to Iowa, where the old coach (Tim Buckley) was at.

He eventually got bought out of his contract the next summer after racist letters were found in his office. More than one source that would know has verified that the letters were actually traced back to one of his assistant's printers.

Ugh, the whole thing was a complete mess and last year record wise was worse because half the guys he brought in were kicked off the team for failing drug tests or other behavioral issues.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080716/SPORTS04/807160429/1004/SPORTS

Jonathan
07-16-2008, 02:38 PM
Hibbert will get to play according to our opponent that night. He will not get big minutes against the smaller fast break teams, but will get minutes against teams with quality big men. I feel RASHO will be our starting C on opening night. Barring Injury or Trade he will be coming off the bench behind Jeff Foster. I would love to see him come off the Bench and provide instant offense and hustle for our organization.

KennerLeaguer
07-16-2008, 02:40 PM
thanks for the articles KennerLeaguer..

one thing I want to know, what is his skill level compared to :
Robin Lopez
Marreese Speights
McGee
Alexis Ajinca
Koufus


I have seen R. Lopez play about ten times. He does not have the skills of Roy nor even the skills of his brother. Lopez runs the floor better though. Will be to see if he truly benefitted fro his brother's presence or if his brother's numbers had unfortunately overshadowed his abilities.


Have not seen hardly any of Speights. His numbers are very impressive though and when it comes to statistical analysis he is right up there with Hibbert. But those that I trust have told me he isn't all that skilled, still very raw in terms of shooting, passing and balhandling. But if he continues to work at it he could be a great player. Obviously not at Hibbert's skill level but better in some other areas. May be the best rebounder in the group and he wants to dunk everything.

McGee. Basically the highlights of him hitting a jumpshot or a hookshot are one of the rare times he has actually accomplished such feats. Very athletic (though not DeAndre Jordan level) but is still far away from having reliable skills, so he is well below Hibbert on that front (and that was basically confirmed by the workouts with the Bobcats and Pacers when Hibbert and McGee were brought in at the same time for each team). Needs to get stronger but he has the potential to be a truly great help defender (ala Marcus Camby).

Alexis Ajinca. Obviously I have never seen this guy play. From reports I read he is supposed to be very skilled. And reports claim he is one of the best athletes in the draft. But if so why did he fall so low after all that buzz he supposedly generated? And early talk from Bobcats was that he has looked very raw in some initial workouts after the draft. Still there are some folks out there who feel he will eventually be the best big man out of this draft if he can get a whole lot stronger. Others feel he was the All Hype Player of the draft.

Koufus. Can match Hibbert's skill level when it comes to the faceup game. Particularly his shooting which he can do on the move better than Hibbert. But his passing skills aren't as good and his fg% isn't all that impressive for a guy his size because he has spent too much time shooting jumpers. His skills in the post aren't as good and he is an inferior defender. He's a better athlete than some give him credit for.

croz24
07-16-2008, 03:15 PM
hibbert will be as good as he wants to be. roy is in the same class with oden as far as "fire" or "intensity". when either of those two play with some, they can truly be unstoppable. the problem is getting them to play with passion. this should be more of an issue with hibbert than it will be with oden.

KennerLeaguer
07-16-2008, 03:25 PM
OH NO! RED FLAG! RED FLAG RED FLAG!

Please, oh God, please get Ronny Thompson away from Hibbert NOW!

I don't know much about JTIII, from all accounts he seems like a man with his head on straight but his brother Ronny is BAD NEWS.

He coached Ball State for a year and set the whole program/university back 5. They posted the worst record, 9-22 ever, and on top of that he's a racist bigot. I'm not over exaggerating one bit.

He fired the basketball secretary that had been there for over 30yrs, told the U that he didn't want anything to do with the head athletic trainer and that he would bring in his own. The AT was Tony Cox, who is the head AT for the NFL combine every year, so it's not like he's some no name.

I hang out with some of the guys on the basketball team and they've told me point blank that he would say things like, (and I quote) "You can't trust white people. They're all out to get you." Said he would just stop film sessions and say things like that. It got so bad that a very predominate player was looking into transferring half way through the season and go to Iowa, where the old coach (Tim Buckley) was at.

He eventually got bought out of his contract the next summer after racist letters were found in his office. More than one source that would know has verified that the letters were actually traced back to one of his assistant's printers.

Ugh, the whole thing was a complete mess and last year record wise was worse because half the guys he brought in were kicked off the team for failing drug tests or other behavioral issues.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080716/SPORTS04/807160429/1004/SPORTS




Hoya fans are much happier that JTIII is our coach rather than Ronny Thompson. JTIII is much better at the X & Os, much better at keeping his composure and from all reports a better guy. Ronny has always been a bit too slick IMO.

Certainly Ronny has his flaws. Certainly he made his mistakes at Ball State. I never bought the notion that he was purely a victim. He helped make the situation a mess.

That being said I don’t buy the spin from Ball State or some folks in Indiana that Ronny was the main and only villain either. I’m also not too impresses with the racial track record at Ball State (in terms of hiring coaches). Lets also not forget that Ball State paid Ronny a pretty good settlement. Its not as if the school has the deep pockets of Ohio State or Indiana. I’m sure they would not have forked over all that dough to a guy whom they felt was truly lying about everything. The university had dirt on its own hands for sure.

Respectfully I also don’t care about message board accusation in which people throw around racism accusations or that a guy planted his own hate mail. You likely don’t have any proof to back that up in any court outside a court of opinion. So I won’t even go there.

That being said despite his flaws Ronny is excellent at getting players into great shape. It was he who personally took Michael Sweetney under his wing and made him into a much more lean guy that would go on to be a lottery pick (it was only after Sweetney was no longer under the supervision of Ronny that he got fat and lazy again). Hibbert sought Ronny out for training because he knew of Ronny’s track record.

Since86
07-16-2008, 03:35 PM
Racial track? Name one, let alone a track.

Speak to Billy Taylor who is there now, or Ray McCallaum (sp?) who was there during the 90's.

There was a comment found during the investigation from an athletic department employee, he used a racial slur about Ronny.

Also, it's not message board rumors. A player, Peyton Stovall, went on record with Jason Whitlock. I'll dig up the quote and post it.

Ronny was nothing short of hated on campus, not because of his skin color but because of his attitude. Billy Taylor is absolutely adored here.

President Gora and the AD Tom Collins both need to go. They kissed his rear from the get go, in letting him hire/fire whoever he wanted.

EDIT: The link to Whitlock's column isn't working, but Pat Forde's still is.


At one point during the 2006-07 season, according to guard Peyton Stovall, Thompson instructed his players not to trust white people.

"He had said that," said Stovall, a fifth-year senior who is black. "It kind of bothered me a little bit. It was hard for me to believe. I grew up around white people."


Howze did not refute Stovall's assertion that Thompson told the players not to trust white people. The former assistant coach said Thompson's words and message were taken out of context.


"What coach Thompson meant was that not everyone on campus has your best interests at heart," Howze recalled. "There are people who will try to get information from you and use it against you."


There is no disputing that Thompson used the n-word in talking to the players.


"He used it with the team, and guys [players] used it with him as well," Stovall said. "I guess society has kind of made it all right for us to use it with each other, which is unfortunate."
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3088349&type=story

I know Peyton personally. He is a very good friend, and I would fight tooth and nail for him. He is one of the most upstanding people I have ever met. He had an awful career while here due to injuries and coaching situations (played under 3 in 5 years) but is one of those guys that always has a positive attitude. I reported him saying those comments back in Dec. during the season on another forum, and will even find the exact post. It was a BSU forum and I was ripped for it.

KennerLeaguer
07-16-2008, 06:54 PM
I remember that quote and I remember that article. Trust me we had links to a lot of this on the Hoya message boards. which led to a lot of discusions. Of course in the DC area there were reports (newspapers, radio, TV) which Ronny and/or his attourney got a chance to refute some of the comments made. From my point of view one guy saying Ronny made that comment doesn't necessarily mean he actually made that comment. If he did he was wrong to do so. But I'm not taking that player's word over anyone else. Plus there are men, white men, like Larry Brown, whom Ronny has worked for and would vouch for his character. In none of his previous job experiences did he display such alarming characteristics.

Anyway you can dish out a piece by Jason Whitlock and an apologist for Ball State and I can whip out an article in Ronny's defense by Michael Wilbon who knows his midwest athletic history and can tear into Ball State. Of course Wilbon could be considered a bit of an apologist for a DC guy like Ronny. So in the end what does either column/article prove? Nothing. The one thing we know for sure was that in the end Ball State paid up. And frankly only fools at Ball State would treat the current coach shabbily after the previous black coach accused the university of having a poisonous, racist atmosphere. But to be honest I'm not here to get into that debate. And I'm not here to say that Ronny was right. I think enough things will stick to prevent him from geting another coaching gig for a long time if not for the rest of his life. Regardless though he is one hell of a physical trainer and Roy was right to seek his assistance. To suggest that is a red flag of any kind is in my opinion a little much even if it was just tongue in cheek. Ronny Thompson isn't some monster or someone who would try to corrupt Roy's character. Even if he tried doing so it would not work on that kid. As a Pacer fan I'm sure that is ultimately what matters most to you.

Heck, if Hibbert turns out as good as I think he can be I'd be more worried about his agent, David Falk. :)

Peace.

OnlyPacersLeft
07-17-2008, 08:26 AM
hibbert might turn out to be a stiff. Was he the best pick at 17? that's debatable. But we needed a big man and he's a big guy. So lets see what he can do.

idioteque
07-17-2008, 10:54 AM
hibbert might turn out to be a stiff. Was he the best pick at 17? that's debatable. But we needed a big man and he's a big guy. So lets see what he can do.

Man, OPL, you used to be such a sunshiner. What happened?

I don't know a lot about Hibbert, he seems to be sort of awkward and limited athletically at times when I watched him last year. He always looked out of place in Georgetown's offense but he never did complain about the lack of looks he got which says something for his character.

Hibbert was a very logical pick for Bird, I don't think there should be any doubt that he'll be at least a decent NBA player. His post game is too refined for his age for him to be an absolute bust: his basketball IQ is much higher than a "project" post player like JaVale McGee or Mohammed Sene. His athleticism is limited which limits his upside.

In the NBA I see Hibbert as a decent starter or a really good backup. If he can be a little more aggressive and a bit quicker I can see him having several solid 14 and 10 or 16 and 10 seasons. If he doesn't, his numbers will be a bit lower than that.

Since86
07-17-2008, 01:27 PM
I'm glad you label Whitlock as an apologist, then want to tout out Wilbon. My respect for him during the whole process went down, way down. I read his article and he didn't interview anyone. He took quotes from Gora and Collins that were made to Muncie's hometown paper. He did ZERO homework on his own. He either didn't talk to anyone, or they didn't give him the material he wanted.

Although I didn't post on the Washington Post's message board after his article, I read them. Having readers of Wilbon's bash him over another racial article also says quite a bit.

Ronny was disliked not because of his skin color, and not even because of how things turned out in the end. People soured on him during the season because of his attitude and coaching.

He brought in horrible players, that routinely were in trouble. They failed drug tests, didn't go to class, and were arrested (one recruit got arrested TWICE in less than a week). His coaching philosophy was a total mess. He miss used players and showed a complete biasness to the ones he brought in.

There was no reason for them to post a 9-22 record. They had two former first team all MAC players, and another that was seleced 2nd team preseason.

He alienated the boosters, showed up an hour and a half late to fundraisers, and generally talked down about the town of Muncie.

You can choose to have your head buried in the pile of crap he and his lawyer shoveled out, there's no way of preventing that, but I will bet the farm that it will be a long long time before he is ever even considered for another head coaching job.

KennerLeaguer
07-18-2008, 01:09 AM
Dude, you really want to keep up this debate in this thread? You want to insult MY intelligence by suggesting that Ronny wrote phony hate mail and then say I'm burying MY head in the sand? Are you gonna say that just because some readers have taken shots at Wilbon over the years whenever he touches on the subject of race makes those readers correct (because afterall a certain segment of society will deny any suggestions of racial bigotry) and therefore as a result makes Wilbon wrong in terms of what he wrote about that incident? Nonsense. And frankly when it comes to research and writing skills Wilbon has a far better track record than Jason Whitlock who is all over the place in his subpar writing. Oh, and Mr Whitlock comes under the same amount of criticism if you ever look at the responses following his pieces posted on Fox Sports. Plus Mr Whitlock has a soft spot in his heart for Ball State anyway which doesn't make him objective in the least either.

Point is that Ball State wrote the big check to Ronny T in the end after all sorts of early predictions that Ronny's lawsuit wouldn't stand up. Those are facts. Period. Now I too am a collector of articles and insights as you can tell. I can also waste everyone's time by dragging up posts from folks at other message boards who took Ronny's word based upon what they knew about Ball State and some insight they had with one called the "environment out there". But this isn't the thread for such a pissing contest. This simply keeps throwing this particular thread offtrack. So if you want to keep on making your case against Ronny Thompson on this forum in a Hibbert thread then that's on you. I'll leave you to it. But don't take shots at me by suggesting I'm burying my head in the sand when you are foolish enough to suggest some racial utopia existed at Ball State and that some troublemaking outsider like Ronny came along and tried to ruin it. Because obviously you have more sand to clean out of your ears than me.

That will be my last post about this on these forums. I apologize to the other readers for being part of a discussion that took away from the original subject of this thread.

CableKC
07-18-2008, 01:48 AM
Dude, you really want to keep up this debate in this thread? You want to insult MY intelligence by suggesting that Ronny wrote phony hate mail and then say I'm burying MY head in the sand? Are you gonna say that just because some readers have taken shots at Wilbon over the years whenever he touches on the subject of race makes those readers correct (because afterall a certain segment of society will deny any suggestions of racial bigotry) and therefore as a result makes Wilbon wrong in terms of what he wrote about that incident? Nonsense. And frankly when it comes to research and writing skills Wilbon has a far better track record than Jason Whitlock who is all over the place in his subpar writing. Oh, and Mr Whitlock comes under the same amount of criticism if you ever look at the responses following his pieces posted on Fox Sports. Plus Mr Whitlock has a soft spot in his heart for Ball State anyway which doesn't make him objective in the least either.

Point is that Ball State wrote the big check to Ronny T in the end after all sorts of early predictions that Ronny's lawsuit wouldn't stand up. Those are facts. Period. Now I too am a collector of articles and insights as you can tell. I can also waste everyone's time by dragging up posts from folks at other message boards who took Ronny's word based upon what they knew about Ball State and some insight they had with one called the "environment out there". But this isn't the thread for such a pissing contest. This simply keeps throwing this particular thread offtrack. So if you want to keep on making your case against Ronny Thompson on this forum in a Hibbert thread then that's on you. I'll leave you to it. But don't take shots at me by suggesting I'm burying my head in the sand when you are foolish enough to suggest some racial utopia existed at Ball State and that some troublemaking outsider like Ronny came along and tried to ruin it. Because obviously you have more sand to clean out of your ears than me.

That will be my last post about this on these forums. I apologize to the other readers for being part of a discussion that took away from the original subject of this thread.
Wait a sec...does this mean that you're not going to post on Hibbert anymore?

or

Just not post on this particular thread anymore?

Eindar
07-18-2008, 01:58 AM
Wait a sec...does this mean that you're not going to post on Hibbert anymore?

or

Just not post on this particular thread anymore?

I took it to mean he's done talking about Ronny Thompson (WHO CARES?) in a Roy Hibbert thread :)

Anthem
07-18-2008, 02:15 AM
I took it to mean he's done talking about Ronny Thompson in a Roy Hibbert thread :)
What a tragedy.

I wouldn't mind if the Hibbert thread became about Hibbert again, although I don't think there's much to say until the games actually start.

imawhat
07-18-2008, 02:27 AM
Point is that Ball State wrote the big check to Ronny T in the end after all sorts of early predictions that Ronny's lawsuit wouldn't stand up. Those are facts. Period.

Only thing is that the "big check" is a settlement, and is nothing compared to the court fees Ball State would have to pay if they chose to fight it, even if Ball State unanimously wins.

It's actually more of a sign that something happened, because if Ronny had a case, he truly could have taken it to court and gotten more than he did, even including the court costs.

juadam09
07-18-2008, 06:05 AM
Off topic:

I lost any and all respect for Wilbon after his toolish racial comments during Sean Taylors death. He ran his mouth before knowing the facts, and even after finding out Sean was targeted in a random robbery he refused to apologize. I lost any and all respect I had for him after that.

Back on topic:

It is very refreshing to hear that out of Hibbert. I hope this is a trend that keeps up and is a sign of things to come

imawhat
07-18-2008, 09:09 PM
Btw, there's a nice feature on pacers.com on Roy (and Brandon). Link below:

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/movement_hq_2008.html


It looks like Roy's dropped 10-15 lbs.

CableKC
07-19-2008, 12:42 AM
Good interview with Roy and Brandon....is there anyway that we can sign John Thompson to be some Big Man coach or something?

Kuq_e_Zi91
07-19-2008, 12:48 AM
Good interview with Roy and Brandon....is there anyway that we can sign John Thompson to be some Big Man coach or something?

I believe he works for TNT. He also still spends a lot of time around the Gtown basketball program.

I'd LOVE for him to come in and mentor Hibbert, but I don't think it'll happen.

A-Train
07-19-2008, 02:22 PM
... does anyone have any opinions on which current/past players you think his game does compare to?

I haven't seen Hibbert play, so I'm just throwing this name out there for those of you who have: Robert Parrish.

From what I've read about Hibbert, he's not supposed to have the quickest of feet, and Parrish certainly didn't have quick feet, either. But, he had size and was a good defender in the paint.

Any validity to that comparison?

Anthem
07-19-2008, 02:34 PM
Holy cow! A-Train returns! Long time man.

Putnam
07-19-2008, 02:48 PM
I like the Robert Parish comparison, and thought about offering it myself earlier in the thread.

But I'm not sure it fits. I think we're visualizing the last years of his career. Parish was pretty lithe at the beginning, though, and Hibbert probably won't match that.


Robert Parish
Robert Parish played in more games than any other player in NBA history. A 7-1 center who combined strength, agility and remarkable endurance, Parish won three NBA titles with the Boston Celtics in the 1980s and teamed with Larry Bird and Kevin McHale to form one of the greatest front lines in NBA history. He capped his career by winning yet another championship ring as a member of the 1996-97 Chicago Bulls. Parish announced his retirement after his 21st season in the NBA, and after playing in 1,611 games.

http://www.nba.com/history/players/parish_summary.html


Remember how Derrick McKey never seemed to hurry, but he was usually in the right place anyway? Hibbert is going to be like that. He is quicker than people say he is (except in a sprint down the open court), and he can move well in either direction and use either hand.

A-Train
07-19-2008, 02:50 PM
Holy cow! A-Train returns! Long time man.

Yeah, I've been a tad busy moving around the country and chasing after a four year old! (wait, that didn't come out right) I mean, I'm married and we have a four year old son. (there, that's better) :cool:

I try to check in occasionally to get the pulse of what's going on with the team, but not nearly as much as I'd like.

Taterhead
07-19-2008, 05:47 PM
After watching the videos, does Brandon Rush have some sort of speech impediment?

Or, maybe he's just camera shy?

MillerTime
07-20-2008, 12:45 AM
is it just me, or has Hibbert slimmed down a bit? He looked a lot slimmer now, in the press conference recently. Ive seen him play with G'Town and he looked like he had a bit more fat than now. I wonder if hes lost weight (as it seems).

MillerTime
07-20-2008, 12:46 AM
After watching the videos, does Brandon Rush have some sort of speech impediment?

Or, maybe he's just camera shy?

lol he seems camera shy

imawhat
07-20-2008, 02:31 AM
is it just me, or has Hibbert slimmed down a bit? He looked a lot slimmer now, in the press conference recently.

#65.