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MillerTime
07-08-2008, 06:14 AM
Shawne played today in the summer league. He put up decent numbers, but I heard that the announcers were making fun of me him. Calling him lazy and seems like he doesnt have too much interest in the game :confused: He put up decent numbers though. In 20 mins, he score 13 points and shot 5/10 from the feild (and 1/2 from beyond the arch) and 2 steals. He also got 6 fouls...

Major Cold
07-08-2008, 06:47 AM
I think that the numbers should never be an issue in summer league. And maturity is hard to gauge in that enviroment.

MillerTime
07-08-2008, 07:20 AM
I think that the numbers should never be an issue in summer league. And maturity is hard to gauge in that enviroment.

i agree. Did anyone actually see the game? How did Shawne look out there? Did he really look lazy and not interested? With Hibbert and Rush not playing in the summer league, the only player that Im watching is really Shawne Williams

Anthem
07-08-2008, 07:28 AM
Well, kinda. The announcers started by repeatedly bagging on him, saying he'd be the next Pacer arrested, etc. Eventually, though, they looked up his list of heinous crimes and one said "Wait, all he's done is miss a court date? That's really not fair to him, then... he hasn't done anything to warrant that."

I missed the 4q, so I don't know if they started in again.

Worst announcers ever, though.

Anthem
07-08-2008, 07:29 AM
i agree. Did anyone actually see the game? How did Shawne look out there? Did he really look lazy and not interested?
I didn't think so, but then it's hard to tell w/ that feed.

He was playing PF, though.

MillerTime
07-08-2008, 07:52 AM
I didn't think so, but then it's hard to tell w/ that feed.

He was playing PF, though.

ya i noticed that too. I dont like him at PF (or Granger)...I think they'll be more effective at SF

MillerTime
07-08-2008, 07:58 AM
is there anywhere we could look at highlights? I checked youtube, they didnt have anythign

Doddage
07-08-2008, 08:13 AM
ya i noticed that too. I dont like him at PF (or Granger)...I think they'll be more effective at SF
If we can transition and develop Shawne into a PF and he works on his post-up game and rebounding, I'd be very happy.

Anthem
07-08-2008, 08:18 AM
ya i noticed that too. I dont like him at PF (or Granger)...I think they'll be more effective at SF
I can't disagree with that.

But the team doesn't need 5 SFs. Shawne's going to need to play some PF if he wants minutes this year.

Or get moved to a team that needs a SF.

MillerTime
07-08-2008, 08:24 AM
I can't disagree with that.

But the team doesn't need 5 SFs. Shawne's going to need to play some PF if he wants minutes this year.

Or get moved to a team that needs a SF.

Or we could move someone like Dunleavy for a decent PF and move Shawne to the SF spot (if he shows improvement)

BlueNGold
07-08-2008, 08:35 AM
Shawne is not a PF...and it's doubtful it will ever be his natural position. It's probably time to ship him out.

I remember in the 90's (when we had good teams) our PF's could snap Shawne in half with one hand tied behind their backs. Even Derrick McKey was taller. Look who won the championship...AGAIN...a team with size (Kendrick Perkins and Kevin Garnett). Small ball does not work. Just ask Shaq and Timmy...

Anthem
07-08-2008, 08:51 AM
Or we could move someone like Dunleavy for a decent PF and move Shawne to the SF spot (if he shows improvement)
Or we could move Dun for a PF... and then still move Shawne. Since Granger's already got the 3 spot locked down.

BlueNGold
07-08-2008, 08:59 AM
Or we could move Dun for a PF... and then still move Shawne. Since Granger's already got the 3 spot locked down.

I really like that idea. We have the PG spot locked down, and probably well enough at C with Foster, Hibbert and Rasho. Brandon Rush, Graham and Quis can play SF in addition to Granger....so SF would still be covered. What we could use is a deadeye shooter (e.g. Mike Miller) and someone who can post-up. I suppose Hibbert can post-up, but who knows?

Edit: Dun is a pretty good shooter, so we are not doing that poorly. However, when he's in there he is not good at guarding the 2 spot. He's simply not quick enough....and Granger should be at SF. JMHO.

Edit: The more I think about the moves TPTB have taken, the more I like them. A perimeter shooter is what we needed and Rush is supposed to provide that. We also desperately needed a real man or two to help Foster in the middle. We got that done too. Kudos to them...

Justin Tyme
07-08-2008, 09:06 AM
Today the Pacers play the Bulls, and it will be interesting to see how Shawne does against Noah and Thomas. Both have NBA experience. He had best grab more than 3 rebs and not foul out.

Anyone know what time the game starts today?

Justin Tyme
07-08-2008, 09:18 AM
I really like that idea. We have the PG spot locked down, and probably well enough at C with Foster, Hibbert and Rasho. Brandon Rush, Graham and Quis can play SF in addition to Granger....so SF would still be covered. What we could use is a deadeye shooter (e.g. Mike Miller) and someone who can post-up. I suppose Hibbert can post-up, but who knows?

Edit: Dun is a pretty good shooter, so we are not doing that poorly. However, when he's in there he is not good at guarding the 2 spot. He's simply not quick enough....and Granger should be at SF. JMHO.

With Quis' contract having a team option next year, it should be easier to move him than Dun with his contract. My preferrence is keeping Dun this year, and then trading him next year when his contract becomes more easily tradeable. Right now Dun's the 2nd best scorer, and w/o knowing how any of the other new players are going to play I believe it's best to keep him. If other players step up where he can be traded, then he can be traded b4 the tradeline. I'd rather see Quis and Shawne traded b4 Dun. JMOAA

BlueNGold
07-08-2008, 09:34 AM
With Quis' contract having a team option next year, it should be easier to move him than Dun with his contract. My preferrence is keeping Dun this year, and then trading him next year when his contract becomes more easily tradeable. Right now Dun's the 2nd best scorer, and w/o knowing how any of the other new players are going to play I believe it's best to keep him. If other players step up where he can be traded, then he can be traded b4 the tradeline. I'd rather see Quis and Shawne traded b4 Dun. JMOAA

I can see that. Quis is probably gone anyway. Also, I seriously doubt the Pacers are going to trade Dunleavy at this point. He has been too productive for them and the risk is too high. At some point though, they will need to move him...because both he and Granger are far better as SF's....and when Granger gets his payday we will have 30M going for the SF position. Now, if Rush really becomes the answer at SG, Dunleavy will have to go.

MillerTime
07-08-2008, 09:36 AM
With all these talks of Shawne being traded...you guys have to remember that Bird came up publically and bashed his stock, stating that Shawne is on "thin ice"...by saying that, Bird only put Shawne's stock lower than it already is. No GM would come out publically and say that about on of their players and then try to trade him after...that just makes no sense for Bird to drop his stock and receive less

Tom White
07-08-2008, 09:44 AM
What I heard about Williams, from one of the radio stations (don't remember which one), was that he looked like he had trouble getting into the flow of the game until later, and by then he was already in foul trouble.

The bright spot of the game? Earl "The Pearl" Calloway. 16 points, 5-6 FG, 1-1 3PT, 5-6 FT, 7 Ast, 4 Reb, 4 TO. He mainly played opposite Westbrook.

count55
07-08-2008, 10:11 AM
Well, kinda. The announcers started by repeatedly bagging on him, saying he'd be the next Pacer arrested, etc. Eventually, though, they looked up his list of heinous crimes and one said "Wait, all he's done is miss a court date? That's really not fair to him, then... he hasn't done anything to warrant that."

I missed the 4q, so I don't know if they started in again.

Worst announcers ever, though.

Yeah, they were bozos...but I imagine that's what me and my friends would sound like if we were mic'd up...(though with a few F-bombs dropped in). However, did you catch it when they were joking about OKC's name? On the sound check prior, they joked about switching from name to name to name. During the broadcast, they kept bouncing from Panthers to Outlaws to Ostriches...but two or three times, they said "Bombers". I don't think they got what they were saying, because they may have gotten it from one of the e-mailers, but, still...



Today the Pacers play the Bulls, and it will be interesting to see how Shawne does against Noah and Thomas. Both have NBA experience. He had best grab more than 3 rebs and not foul out.

Anyone know what time the game starts today?

7-ish.


Back to Shawne...he played OK...took a spill early on a drive that was scary. If a guy like Shawne looks horrible (a la Jonathan Bender) I worry, but other than that, it's hard to take away a lot from the Summer League games. I think Shawne (and Stephen) were fine, but you've got too many people competing for jobs to get a real sense of how people will play once the real stuff starts. I mostly worry about guys getting hurt. That's why I'm not particularly heartbroken about the fact that Rush and Hibbert couldn't play.

BlueNGold
07-08-2008, 10:59 AM
What I heard about Williams, from one of the radio stations (don't remember which one), was that he looked like he had trouble getting into the flow of the game until later, and by then he was already in foul trouble.

The bright spot of the game? Earl "The Pearl" Calloway. 16 points, 5-6 FG, 1-1 3PT, 5-6 FT, 7 Ast, 4 Reb, 4 TO. He mainly played opposite Westbrook.

We need to make a spot for Calloway. We are now officially stacked at PG...

Naptown_Seth
07-08-2008, 11:03 AM
These games do have awful flow and it does seem to trip up even solid players. You want to see a player look smooth in whatever he does, you'd like to see some hustle plays, and you wouldn't mind seeing Shawne play with confidence.

But the strategy is typically a mess in these things so you can't really make good use of any actual NBA awareness. Artest played well in summer ball as a vet coming off suspension, but he didn't crush guys and go on a scoring rampage either.

It would help to know if a player was asked to specifically work on something with no regard to other aspects. Not unlike a spring training pitcher just trying to locate his fastball all game long for practice, even if he's getting shelled by not mixing it up.


Shawne with the team - he's a SF that swings more to PF than Danny does. He's a better defender than Dun. He's got the potential to be an equal 3pt threat. So ultimately he becomes your #2 SF and Dun needs to go in order to move your cash into the SG or true PF position...of course moving Troy would have this effect too, but you can't get equal value with him like you might with Dun right now.

It's not even a knock on Dun, it's the fact that he played well and raised his value back up that I'd like to see him moved now while you can. As said, when you extended Danny that's going to be a lot of cash going into the SF position.

Justin Tyme
07-08-2008, 12:33 PM
With all these talks of Shawne being traded...you guys have to remember that Bird came up publically and bashed his stock, stating that Shawne is on "thin ice"...by saying that, Bird only put Shawne's stock lower than it already is. No GM would come out publically and say that about on of their players and then try to trade him after...that just makes no sense for Bird to drop his stock and receive less

Williams value isn't that high to begin with, so what Bird said isn't going to hurt Williams' value as a filler on a trade. He's got 2 years of NBA under his belt, and he really hasn't done anything in those 2 years to make other GM's drool and fall over themselves to get him.

Bird said how he felt, now it's time for William's to mature and produce. If he doesn't, he knows he's history. He knows right up front what the score is. The ball is in Williams' court to stay a Pacer.

Shade
07-08-2008, 12:39 PM
"Wait, all he's done is miss a court date? That's really not fair to him, then... he hasn't done anything to warrant that."

I've been saying this for a long time now.

And Shawne shouldn't even be playing in the summer league.

NapTonius Monk
07-08-2008, 12:43 PM
I can see that. Quis is probably gone anyway. Also, I seriously doubt the Pacers are going to trade Dunleavy at this point. He has been too productive for them and the risk is too high. At some point though, they will need to move him...because both he and Granger are far better as SF's....and when Granger gets his payday we will have 30M going for the SF position. Now, if Rush really becomes the answer at SG, Dunleavy will have to go.

You know, I really don't get the argument that Dunleavy is better at SF. The best statistical and productive year he's ever had came at shooting guard. There's not much reason to suspect he'd be that much better at the 3 spot.

ABADays
07-08-2008, 12:58 PM
Who were these announcers and who hired them? Sounds like they need to be replaced for lack of professionalism.

2minutes twowa
07-08-2008, 01:07 PM
Who were these announcers and who hired them? Sounds like they need to be replaced for lack of professionalism.

My guess would be that they were unpaid interns.

Hicks
07-08-2008, 01:16 PM
Didn't they start 1 or 2 years ago, and since summer ball is so terrible anyway, they just kept these guys to be goofballs?

avoidingtheclowns
07-08-2008, 01:21 PM
dante & galante = awesometastic



http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2008/07/07/who-are-these-magic-dudes-and-why-dont-i-know-about-them/ (http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2008/07/07/who-are-these-magic-dudes-and-why-dont-i-know-about-them/)



Who are these Magic dudes, and why don’t I know about them (http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2008/07/07/who-are-these-magic-dudes-and-why-dont-i-know-about-them/)

July 7th, 2008 | Posted by PostmanE (http://www.wearethepostmen.com/author/postmane/)

http://www.wearethepostmen.com/wp-content/uploads//2008/07/header_dantegeorgeshow.jpg

Listening in to the streaming feed (http://www.nba.com/magic/news/summerleague.html) of the oh-so-important Bulls-Heat Summer League matchup has been revelatory, but not because of the basketball. The two dudes providing play-by-play have been everything I need in basketball commentary: laughter. I like to think I understand most of the major tenets of the game, so while I like to have Jeff Van Gundy’s brand of wisdom, I don’t need it. What I need are the following:

Repeated references to how horrible Aaron Gray is. For example: “Aaron Gray makes a slow, awkward move. Not surprisingly, it’s rejected.”
Being willing to admit that “Tyrus Thomas has been known to eat souls.”
A dumbest email of the day feature. (For the record, the email asked if Dwyane Wade would get a lot of playing time next year. That is really dumb.)
“Everything Joakim Noah does looks very awkward to me.”
A debate on the merits of Kobe’s sneakers.
“Jamesoff Curry.”And so on. It’s brilliant stuff. I will struggle to justify watching the rest of Summer League, but Dante and Galante might do the trick. Whoever they are (http://www.nba.com/magic/multimedia/dantegalanteshow.html).



and Awful Announcing has a highlight film from games 2 & 3 yesterday
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x620zs_summer-league-final_latino

</I>

Jonathan
07-08-2008, 01:24 PM
We need to make a spot for Calloway. We are now officially stacked at PG...

I never understood why we never called him up from the D-League late last year to see what he could do.

BlueNGold
07-08-2008, 08:17 PM
You know, I really don't get the argument that Dunleavy is better at SF. The best statistical and productive year he's ever had came at shooting guard. There's not much reason to suspect he'd be that much better at the 3 spot.

There's not much wrong with his game on offense. The fact Dunleavy performed well offensively probably had something to do with change of scenery. When you're hated and booed all the time, it's a little tough for the guy to get confidence. He's also beginning to enter his prime years and should start performing at a higher level....so all in all, it's to be expected.

But the real problem is twofold. First, he is not a good perimeter defender. This allows penetration that we can ill afford without a shotblocker in the middle. Second, and more important, that puts Granger on the perimeter to guard the other team's SG. This largely wastes Granger's other talents: rebounding and blocking shots. Also, Granger is nearly 6'9" and has some trouble with smaller, quicker guards. It's really about what position is BEST for these guys to play.

duke dynamite
07-08-2008, 08:45 PM
I never understood why we never called him up from the D-League late last year to see what he could do.

Yeah, we had to sign Flip Murray...


:bs:

duke dynamite
07-08-2008, 08:46 PM
dante & galante = awesometastic



http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2008/07/07/who-are-these-magic-dudes-and-why-dont-i-know-about-them/ (http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2008/07/07/who-are-these-magic-dudes-and-why-dont-i-know-about-them/)



and Awful Announcing has a highlight film from games 2 & 3 yesterday
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x620zs_summer-league-final_latino

</I>
I don't neccesarily like these guys. They don't really help with the game at all.

Kemo
07-08-2008, 10:03 PM
Or we could move someone like Dunleavy for a decent PF and move Shawne to the SF spot (if he shows improvement)


LMAO .. no offense .. but have you and David Harrison been hangin' out lately?

Anyone who would rather see us keep Williams over Dunleavy.. makes me question if they even watch Pacers basketball .lol

Like I said.. plz take no offense.. but damn...

Dunleavy is the hardest worker on our team... along with Danny Granger and Foster...
I mean come on .. dude averaged good numbers , plays smart 90% of the time ... and will bust his *** for you EVER night he is on the court...
NO MATTER HOW SICK HE IS FEELING ... point in case one of the last few games of the season.. when he played till he puked...
Not only for the sake of the team .. but FOR THE FANS.....

What has Shawne Williams EVER done ... really...??

I mean I really wanna like the guy as a player .. but he has only shown a FEW flashes of what he "could be"..

I just dont understand what some people have against Dunleavy..
He is exciting to watch play.. most of the time... now granted every player has an off game every 5 or 6 games... But he has proven he is consistant...
At the start of last season , I think he was having some confidence issues... that is why he seemed passive at first , but the 2nd half of the season , he has shown that fire in his eyes, and passion to play ball and be aggressive .. I believe at least...

Don't get me wrong I love me some Danny Granger .. But I like Dunleavy just a smidgen more ...

They are my 2 favorite Pacers players...
And honestly ..
I haven't liked 2 players who play together on this team as much as I do now , since we had Reggie Miller and Rik Smits playing together in their prime...

Kemo
07-08-2008, 10:10 PM
The bright spot of the game? Earl "The Pearl" Calloway. 16 points, 5-6 FG, 1-1 3PT, 5-6 FT, 7 Ast, 4 Reb, 4 TO. He mainly played opposite Westbrook.



Calloway P0Wn3d Rose today...

Whoever signs Calloway as a Free Agent , is going to get a quality guard in my opinion...
I have always liked Calloway... saw him play in 3 or 4 Mad Ants games not too long ago.. One of which they played here in Anderson at A.U.

For the sake of my own sanity ... I just hope someone like Detroit don't sign him .. I would be P*SSED .. (as I hate Detroit) .. lol but besides that .. he would probably flourish there bigtime... and we would be kicking ourselves in the a$$ for not picking him up somehow...

Kemo
07-08-2008, 10:12 PM
also Calloway ended up with 20 points

spazzxb
07-08-2008, 10:34 PM
also Calloway ended up with 20 points
I don't like a point gaurd shooting 50% more shots than anyone else on the team. While i like alot of what I see from Calloway, I am not all that impressed with 5-15 shooting. Also Rose did get 7 assists , but as I said earlier Rose has not been up to thae hype so far.

ABADays
07-08-2008, 11:09 PM
LMAO .. no offense .. but have you and David Harrison been hangin' out lately?

Anyone who would rather see us keep Williams over Dunleavy.. makes me question if they even watch Pacers basketball .lol

Like I said.. plz take no offense.. but damn...

Dunleavy is the hardest worker on our team... along with Danny Granger and Foster...
I mean come on .. dude averaged good numbers , plays smart 90% of the time ... and will bust his *** for you EVER night he is on the court...
NO MATTER HOW SICK HE IS FEELING ... point in case one of the last few games of the season.. when he played till he puked...
Not only for the sake of the team .. but FOR THE FANS.....

What has Shawne Williams EVER done ... really...??

I mean I really wanna like the guy as a player .. but he has only shown a FEW flashes of what he "could be"..

I just dont understand what some people have against Dunleavy..
He is exciting to watch play.. most of the time... now granted every player has an off game every 5 or 6 games... But he has proven he is consistant...
At the start of last season , I think he was having some confidence issues... that is why he seemed passive at first , but the 2nd half of the season , he has shown that fire in his eyes, and passion to play ball and be aggressive .. I believe at least...

Don't get me wrong I love me some Danny Granger .. But I like Dunleavy just a smidgen more ...

They are my 2 favorite Pacers players...
And honestly ..
I haven't liked 2 players who play together on this team as much as I do now , since we had Reggie Miller and Rik Smits playing together in their prime...

Well said and I don't get it either.

Anthem
07-08-2008, 11:38 PM
Dunleavy has a higher trade value than Williams, and plays a position we're stacked at.

Assuming we got value back, I wouldn't mind moving both of them.

Infinite MAN_force
07-08-2008, 11:46 PM
I see no problem with keeping dunleavy and rotating Rush/Dun/Granger on the wing for the next couple seasons. We are not going to get anymore of a productive player back in a trade, and cap room is not a huge concern for the time being.

People act like we will win a special prize for getting under the cap. Priority? Resign Granger.... well we can do that now. There should not be anymore big time signings for some time... and going after big time free agents is not gonna be the way to go. Most of them wont come here anyway.

Best to wait these contracts out... big expiring contracts could payoff in the inevitable quest to "get over the hump" in a few seasons.

count55
07-08-2008, 11:48 PM
You can like Dunleavy and still see a scenario where it makes sense to move him. I don't believe MillerTime was saying that we should replace Dunleavy with Williams. I believe he was saying that we could use Dunleavy to potentially bring in a PF because we were stacked at the wing.

BlueNGold
07-09-2008, 12:01 AM
You can like Dunleavy and still see a scenario where it makes sense to move him. I don't believe MillerTime was saying that we should replace Dunleavy with Williams. I believe he was saying that we could use Dunleavy to potentially bring in a PF because we were stacked at the wing.

Yep. Dunleavy is a good player. The *only* reason I would trade him is because we have another starting calibre SF who will be getting a 50-70M contract...and we still have other glaring weaknesses. While I would be concerned about his production, I would also factor in what kind of production we would get in return and how the make-up of the team would change.

Anyway, I suspect moving him is too big of a risk for TPTB at the present time. That's ok. We'll have a better team and he should play well for us again this year and may be an even better asset next year or at the deadline.

Kemo
07-09-2008, 12:20 AM
It is like this with me... ... There is no other player I personally like , and enjoy watching play. that we could possibly aquire by trading Dunleavy....

And I absolutely HATE it when some... (not singling anyone out) ..... people on here constantly treat our players like freakin baseball cards...
It is PATHETIC .. and makes me nod my head in disgust...

It is one thing to discuss possible trades with problem players (on or off court) ... or players who don't figure into team plans .... as means of making the "team" better..

Guys like Foster ... Granger ...and Dunleavy are guys who have worked their way into the hearts and minds of quite a few fans , including myself... and i believe that they deserve more respect than that....

But this is just my 2 cents... take it how you all want to...

Placebo
07-09-2008, 01:20 AM
it's really hard to tell when it comes to Shawne. Most of the time, he just seems like he will never pan out. But sometimes he just shows wonderful skills which makes me wanna see him stay and be patient... But... Can we rely on him as a major piece for our core? Honestly he doesn't show me that he has that... I think the good thing about his situation with Pacers is his contract. I don't mind him staying until his rookie contract expires. With Shawne things will be much clearer in a year or two...

But...
The idea of trading Dun cause we have Shawne is simply ridiculous. Mike Dunleavy is one of our best players and we aren't trading him away unless we are getting something really really good. I can't believe people still complaining about his contract. Come on, last season he deserved every penny he earned. No, we aren't shipping him just to create room Shawne.

stew
07-09-2008, 05:28 AM
The idea of trading Dun cause we have Shawne is simply ridiculous. Mike Dunleavy is one of our best players and we aren't trading him away unless we are getting something really really good. I can't believe people still complaining about his contract. Come on, last season he deserved every penny he earned. No, we aren't shipping him just to create room Shawne.

People are suggesting we trade Mike is because we are stacked at the small forward position. Our two best player (dun and Granger) are both SF. And we just drafted B Rush which is a 2/3.

And since we are weak at the PF position, it just make sense to trade Dun for a PF, as the other players we have (except Granger) wont give us equal value...

denyfizle
07-09-2008, 05:38 AM
I don't like a point gaurd shooting 50% more shots than anyone else on the team. While i like alot of what I see from Calloway, I am not all that impressed with 5-15 shooting. Also Rose did get 7 assists , but as I said earlier Rose has not been up to thae hype so far.


I was never sold on Derrick Rose. To me, Beasley was still the logical choice as #1. I asked REL and a bunch of people about their opinions about Rose, and they all seem to love him like most pro scouts, but I don't know. I can go on forever about the logic behind my statement but I just didn't see all the fuss about Rose to be succinct. He is very athletic but I felt he always vanished in the clutch games like the loss to Tennessee and the finals of the NCAA tourney. He is light years behind Paul and Williams whom people likened him too.

But yea, he is young though so maybe it really not fair to judge him yet. I'll give him 2-3 years.

Indra
07-09-2008, 07:33 AM
It is like this with me... ... There is no other player I personally like , and enjoy watching play. that we could possibly aquire by trading Dunleavy....

And I absolutely HATE it when some... (not singling anyone out) ..... people on here constantly treat our players like freakin baseball cards...
It is PATHETIC .. and makes me nod my head in disgust...

It is one thing to discuss possible trades with problem players (on or off court) ... or players who don't figure into team plans .... as means of making the "team" better..

Guys like Foster ... Granger ...and Dunleavy are guys who have worked their way into the hearts and minds of quite a few fans , including myself... and i believe that they deserve more respect than that....

But this is just my 2 cents... take it how you all want to...

While I agree with you to an extent, I think I disagree with the idea behind this post. Players that work hard for your organization will endear themselves to fans, they may not be the best thing for the team. This is a business, and the Pacers are in the business of winning. Foster or Dunleavy may work their butts off, but they may be better suited as trading fodder to get the right pieces for the team to win. There are other guys out there who work hard every night, and they might fit vital positions in the Pacers roster that need filling.

I do agree, though, that some loyalty should be expressed towards players who do what's asked of them and more. I would love to see Williams go before Foster or Dunleavy, but Williams won't garner the same attention that F or MDJ will, and the Pacers are a team with glaring needs.

Dukins
07-09-2008, 08:12 AM
Really, what power forward is out there that is worth giving both Dun and Foster for? None I can think of off the top of my head. To even think about trading dun right now is a huge mistake. All we need is a POWER FORWARD to rebound. We have that in foster, if you want an up grade then you trade Shawne and Foster, but not Dun.

Rajah Brown
07-09-2008, 09:16 AM
I'm with Placebo on Williams. I've no particular attachment to
Duns and seeing him moved at some point to fill another need
would be fine with me. But not now or anytime soon. Williams
has done nothing whatsoever to show he's close to ready to
take over even a backup, limited mins role at either F spot
when it counts.

Doddage
07-09-2008, 09:22 AM
Really, what power forward is out there that is worth giving both Dun and Foster for? None I can think of off the top of my head. To even think about trading dun right now is a huge mistake. All we need is a POWER FORWARD to rebound. We have that in foster, if you want an up grade then you trade Shawne and Foster, but not Dun.
Yeah... pretty much. Although I don't want to trade Shawne either, if we can get a nice pickup out of him, I wouldn't complain.

I am not on board with people wanting to trade Dunleavy. He showed a lot of improvement for us last season with the potential to improve more, and I think he's going to be a really nice piece for us once the starting lineup is fully assembled. Meaning, once he comes off the bench for us as our sixth man, our team will be solid. Besides, who can we get for Dun? I'm not so sure that we'd get much at this point seeing as Dun only proved himself last season and a part of the season before.

Justin Tyme
07-09-2008, 10:05 AM
I don't believe I once saw Quis' name mentioned as a player to be traded when discussing players to be traded in this thread. He in my view is the "prime" player to be traded. He's 3rd string "whatever position player" with a contract that is attractive. To me, he's the most logical player to be traded, and if necessary, as sweetner, add Williams to the trade.

I just don't see Williams as developing into a PF that numerous posters think he can/will be. Williams gives just enough in a game, here and there, that intices fans to want to keep him based on that "P" word. What's he really done? Not much of anything. He should be tearing up the summer league with the quality of players he's playing against... he's not. He's not even one of the 2 most impressive players on the Pacers team in the 2 games played in the summer league! I don't see Williams helping his cause out with Bird at all with his play. JMOAA

MyFavMartin
07-09-2008, 10:22 AM
I don't believe I once saw Quis' name mentioned as a player to be traded when discussing players to be traded in this thread. He in my view is the "prime" player to be traded. He's 3rd string "whatever position player" with a contract that is attractive.


Agreed. Any team that had interest in Maggette may want to consider Quis...

Infinite MAN_force
07-10-2008, 12:20 AM
The problem with trading dunleavy is I just don't think he has enough trade value. He is only coming off one great season, and his contract is long. His position is also the most easily filled in the NBA.

I think the value we get back in the trade will be far less than Dunleavy's value on court. Better just to keep him around for the time being.

Not to mention you would be asking a rookie to fill the shoes of a guy who put up 19/5/4 last season. We will NOT be getting a PF that puts those kind of numbers for dunleavy, it will hurt the team's performance next year for sure.

Or you can split minutes (32 per game for each) and have three fresh starter qaulity guys rotating on the wing at all times.

Infinite MAN_force
07-10-2008, 12:25 AM
I don't believe I once saw Quis' name mentioned as a player to be traded when discussing players to be traded in this thread. He in my view is the "prime" player to be traded. He's 3rd string "whatever position player" with a contract that is attractive. To me, he's the most logical player to be traded, and if necessary, as sweetner, add Williams to the trade.



quis = cap relief.

why would the pacers, after finally aquiring much sought after cap relief, start trading their expiring contracts?

quis + rasho + foster = something like 20 million off the cap next year. Than you resign granger, maybe foster for a bit less, and the "murphleavy" problem is much easier to bear beacuse you are not so strapped.

MillerTime
07-10-2008, 01:25 AM
Shawne played good today in the summer league, against the Heat. He had 25 points and hit 4 for 7 beyong the arch. Only downfall was that he had 7 turn overs. In 37 mins, he only had 2 rebs though..i thought he was a much better rebounder. Lets hope he can pick his game up.

One reported said, "The Pacers are expected Williams to be a MVP type of player in the summer league"....lets see how this works out

Hoop
07-10-2008, 01:54 AM
I'm in the Shawne can play PF camp. If he can, he should get some meaningful minutes this season, barring more trades.

Shawne is still younger than our brand new shiny rookies, I hope he gets more time to improve.

MillerTime
07-10-2008, 03:14 AM
I'm in the Shawne can play PF camp. If he can, he should get some meaningful minutes this season, barring more trades.

Shawne is still younger than our brand new shiny rookies, I hope he gets more time to improve.

I just think he'll get eaten alive by the PFs in this league because he his size (especally muscle and upper body strength). Hes not a good rebounder, considering his 6'9" frame.

But none the less...youre definately not the only Shawne Williams fan left. I love Shawne's game, he just needs to get it togehter. He played well in the last game against the Heat. Hes a good 3 point shooter (he shot 4/7)....lets just hope his reponse to Larry's comments come true. He said this should be his break out year...

Justin Tyme
07-10-2008, 07:03 AM
quis = cap relief.

why would the pacers, after finally aquiring much sought after cap relief, start trading their expiring contracts?

quis + rasho + foster = something like 20 million off the cap next year. Than you resign granger, maybe foster for a bit less, and the "murphleavy" problem is much easier to bear beacuse you are not so strapped.


They are only trading ONE expiring contract... Quis'.

Why pay someone 6.8 mil to be "3rd string whatever postion player" to sit on the bench? What's he contributing to the Pacers for that type money? Better yet why are the Simons interested in paying 6.8 mil for a bench 3rd string whatever who will play little? They already have one in Tinsley that they are paying! Why have 2?

You trade Quis for other players/player that can contribute to getting the Pacers in the playoffs that can help this team more than Quis can/will/does. The objective is to get into the playoffs this year, right? You need a winning team to bring back the fans to Conseco thus putting money back into the Simons' pockets. Paying Quis 6.8 mil just to be an expiring to produce little isn't going to help sell tickets. It's just going to take 6.8 mil out of the Simons' pockets to pay a 3rd string whatever player. Remember the Pacers are a business, and not a charity.

When Rasho leaves who is going to man the center spot? Hibbert, a 2nd year player? Foster, who might not be back, so he can't be counted on. He might want to move back to SA and play for the Spurs at this stage of his career. You have to look not only at the present, but the future. Who is the the Pacers future PF? Williams? LOL! Baston? There isn't anyone on the Pacers' roster! What is going to be your trading asset next year to get a C and PF? Murphy? That won't happen. Your expirings will be gone other than Jack(2.9 mil) and Diener(1.75 mil), and I don't see either of those two bringing in a future PF or quality b/u C. Besides, Jack would probably be re-signed. Look at your roster and tell me who you are going to trade next year to get your future PF? Why not now while you have some trading chips available in Quis and possibly Williams?

Please don't say the future is in next years draft. There is no guarantee that PF is there, not to mention the years it will take for that pick to produce. Bird doesn't have the luxury of years to wait for this team to start producing. He's only got this year and next year. How much patience/time does the Simons have to wait to see a turn around? At their age, it needs to be ASAP. I personally don't like the sound of the Las Vegas Pacers. Do you? JMOAA

Putnam
07-10-2008, 07:57 AM
Shawne is still younger than our brand new shiny rookies, I hope he gets more time to improve.

Shawne is older than Hibbert by nearly a year. But Hibbert has much more playing experience (at the college level.)

BRush DOB: July 7, 1985
Shawne DOB: Feb. 16, 1986
Roy DOB: December11, 1986


Watching the two of them is going to give us an interesting comparison of two routes to the pros.

DGPR
07-10-2008, 08:30 AM
Shawne is older than Hibbert by nearly a year. But Hibbert has much more playing experience (at the college level.)

BRush DOB: July 7, 1985
Shawne DOB: Feb. 16, 1986
Roy DOB: December11, 1986


Watching the two of them is going to give us an interesting comparison of two routes to the pros.


I didn't know Rush just turned 23 already. I don't consider that old (since I'm only 22) but for a 3 year collegiate player he's a little bit older. I'm not complaining but just making a comment, I was surprised.

Anthem
07-10-2008, 10:23 AM
Shawne looks pretty thin for a PF. I continue to believe he'll be best as a SF.

naptownmenace
07-10-2008, 01:20 PM
I'm surprised that no one mentioned Shawne's performance last night in the Summer League - especially considering the title of this thread.

Did anyone watch the game last night? I see that Shawne put up some good numbers last night - 25 points - but he also had 7 turnovers. How has Shawne's overall performance been?

Will Galen
07-10-2008, 01:23 PM
Most of the talk is of trading a small forward for a power forward. However, if the Pacers are planning on using Murphy and Foster at power forward I'm pretty sure any power forward we trade for wouldn't get to play any meaningful minutes.

Plus I don't think Bird is going to trade anyone he considers a core player this summer. I think he's going to wait and see what he has.

Myself, the only players I would consider trading are the ones that won't be part of the regular rotation. That would be, Williams, Graham, Diener, Daniels, McRoberts, and Baston. Oh and Tinsley of course.

idioteque
07-10-2008, 01:31 PM
dante & galante = awesometastic



http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2008/07/07/who-are-these-magic-dudes-and-why-dont-i-know-about-them/ (http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2008/07/07/who-are-these-magic-dudes-and-why-dont-i-know-about-them/)



and Awful Announcing has a highlight film from games 2 & 3 yesterday
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x620zs_summer-league-final_latino



Really? I think these guys are just terrible. They're always talking about the New England Patriots, I have to suffer enough through that during NFL season. The 49ers could be playing the Raiders and we'd hear about the god forsaken New England Patriots, and I've almost grown to accept that, but during Summer League? Enough. :bs:

They don't seem to know anything about basketball and they see the Summer League as basically worthless and half the time they are complaining for having to sit up there and commentate. If it sucks so bad, do us a favor and just quit. Hell, I'd gladly do it for free and I am sure there are plenty of people that would. They are also constantly giggling and telling dumb inside jokes.

I can't standssss it.

Will Galen
07-10-2008, 02:36 PM
. . . and half the time they are complaining for having to sit up there and commentate.

And here you are complaining about their complaining. (Hehehe)

avoidingtheclowns
07-10-2008, 03:18 PM
Really? I think these guys are just terrible. They're always talking about the New England Patriots, I have to suffer enough through that during NFL season. The 49ers could be playing the Raiders and we'd hear about the god forsaken New England Patriots, and I've almost grown to accept that, but during Summer League? Enough. :bs:

They don't seem to know anything about basketball and they see the Summer League as basically worthless and half the time they are complaining for having to sit up there and commentate. If it sucks so bad, do us a favor and just quit. Hell, I'd gladly do it for free and I am sure there are plenty of people that would. They are also constantly giggling and telling dumb inside jokes.

I can't standssss it.

summer league is terrible basketball, there really isn't any getting around that. it is terrible for good reason: you pull a bunch of players together for a couple days and play a series of glorified scrimmages. they've never played with each other before so it is gonna suck. that's why there is a long training camp before the season - so teams can developed. this is basically a pickup game with commentators.

D&G are having fun with it and they certainly give viewers more access than other 'broadcast' teams. all the 'excitement' from PD posters about Woo (from last season's summer league team) - how is that any different than D&G 'raving' about Golubovic this year?

here is a post from Yahoo's Ball Don't Lie about the pair.



Thursday, Jul 10, 2008 9:00 am EDT
Orlando Summer League: The Dante and Galante Show

By Nick Friedell

Dante Marchitelli (far right) and George Galante are ready to go. They sit down in their chairs, put their headsets on, and sort through the papers in front of them. It's about time for tip-off in the first summer league game of the day.

"3,2,1," Marchitelli says smoothly into his headset, as he begins to introduce the day's action. A few more seconds go by, and Marchitelli realizes there is a problem. "Let's go ahead and turn this on," he says as he reaches for the power switch on the control panel.

Welcome to summer league broadcasting.

If you've watched any of the summer league action this week, you've probably been wondering who the two guys doing the commentary are. Marchitelli, the play-by-play guy, is a jack-of-all trades in the Magic's media department, providing sideline reports for the team's radio and television broadcasts, as well as occasionally hosting the team's local weekly wrap-up show. Galante, the color commentator/e-mail reader, is the Magic's Director of Communications.

Over the course of the week, these two have developed (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Audio-of-the-Day-Dante-and-Galante-summer-leag?urn=nba,92605) a cult-like (http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2008/07/07/who-are-these-magic-dudes-and-why-dont-i-know-about-them/) following (http://www.faniq.com/blog/Video-Orlando-Summer-League-Announcers-Are-Awesome-Blog-10108) on the Internet, by providing witty, sometimes off the wall descriptions, of what is going on during the game, and anything else that pops into their heads, or their inbox.

Before the Bulls-Magic game started, the Magic's website, which also serves as the official home for summer league action, had already surpassed 1,000,000 hits over the last two days. Almost as importantly for Marchitelli and Galante was the fact that they had received over 2,800 e-mails since play began on Monday, many of which they read on the air. "We'll read anything that comes in," Marchitelli joked.

In the first game alone, the pair fielded e-mails about Jason Giambi's mustache, Eva Longoria's looks, and Chuck Norris' awesomeness.

They were also offered a job by a guy who wanted to hire the pair to follow him around and provide commentary about his life, a la Mystery Science Theater 3000, and were asked by another e-mailer if one of them would consider marrying his sister.

One of the pair's favorite e-mails of the day came from a woman, who asked the guys to give Joakim Noah (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4287/) her phone number. She actually sent the number in an e-mail, saying she had met Noah at a Gainesville restaurant a while back. (When told of this development, Noah responded, "Is she hot?" When I told him that the girl said she was a blonde twin, he played it off. "It's good," he said jokingly about the e-mail, "It's good for my confidence." For the record, I don't think Noah had a clue who she was, and to Marchitelli and Galante's credit, they did not read the number on the air.)

So how did these two guys end up becoming the voices of the summer league?

Two years ago, the Magic started streaming the feed of summer league games on their website, the only problem was there was nobody there to call the action. "People were e-mailing in saying it's just really hard to follow," Galante said. "All you're seeing is a grainy picture from a coaches' cam ... you can't tell who the guys are. (People asked) Can you get somebody at least to go up there and say who the guys are?"

At first the pair tried to call the action as straight as possible, like any other professional broadcasting duo. "It lasted for about 15 minutes," Galante said. "Because the basketball just really was not that good."
Or as Marchitelli put it, "We were bored to death."

So the pair started joking around during the broadcasts, and haven't really stopped since. At first, they were only supposed to call the games that the Magic were in, but they decided that if they were going to provide commentary, they should do it for every game. "(We thought) if we're gonna go up there, why don't we just do 'em all, have some fun with it, Marchitelli said.

The popularity of their summer league broadcasts, convinced the duo that there was an outlet for their brand of basketball commentary. Before the beginning of the '07-'08 season they started the Dante and Galante Show (http://www.nba.com/magic/multimedia/dantegalanteshow.html), a weekly podcast series, in which the pair interviews a different basketball personality each week.

"If (fans) want to get straight basketball stuff, there's 10,000 outlets that they can get straight basketball stuff," Galante said.

If they want to know whether Dwight Howard (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3818/) would rather wear a t-shirt on a first date that said "Who cut the cheese," or "I'm with Stupid," the Dante and Galante show is where they turn.

Because of the relationship they have with the players, almost nothing is out of bounds, giving fans a chance to hear a different side of the athletes. "We know (the players) as people because we're fortunate enough to work for the team, Galante said. "Joe Fan doesn't get that opportunity, Joe Fan just sees what is out there in the mass-media, (the podcasts) are just a different outlet for people."


*************

The key to Dante and George's success is that they don't take themselves or the games too seriously. While Marchitelli admits to googling each player's name to get some background information on them, most of the time they don't even talk about the game. When asked by one e-mailer what they planned to do on their next vacation, Galante responded quickly. "I'm going to Vegas in a few weeks, and I'm going to treat my body like an amusement park."

The other key is the interaction they have with the fans. They are the first play-by-play team I have ever seen that uses the Internet to constantly communicate with viewers. Most broadcasters will read a couple of e-mails on the air, and then that's the end of it for the night. Marchitelli and Galante are constantly reading e-mails, getting instant responses from viewers all over the world. Like almost everything else pertaining to their summer league broadcasting careers, the rise of reading hilarious e-mails on the air almost happened by accident. "The first couple e-mails were all straight" Galante said. "What do you think about Tyrus Thomas (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4132/)? What do you think about Lebron James (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3704/)? Then we got one just randomly that was like, "I'm having a big dinner tonight with my girlfriend, I'm trying to figure out how I should cook salmon, how should I cook the salmon," and then it just went from there ..."

Both men realize how lucky they are to be able to do this for the week. They know that most fans would do just about anything to be able to call a game with their buddy. "We were all in college, and we all sat around with our buddies and watched a game and made smart-*** comments through the whole game," Galante said. "That's basically what I'm doing, I'm up here with my buddy and we're watching the game and we're being smart asses, it's the same thing."

"But," Marchitelli wisely adds, it's being broadcast."

That, it most definitely is. By the time I left the duo's perch, high above the floor, Marchitelli and Galante had received almost 1,200 e-mails during the first game, bringing their total for the week up over 4,000. As I walked back down the steps and towards the floor, I remembered something George had said during the broadcast, and it had me laughing for the rest of the day. "We're uniting the world," he said. "One bad minute of basketball at a time."

Can't beat the summer league.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Orlando-Summer-League-The-Dante-and-Galante-Sho?urn=nba,93133

Hoop
07-10-2008, 03:30 PM
Shawne is older than Hibbert by nearly a year. But Hibbert has much more playing experience (at the college level.)

BRush DOB: July 7, 1985
Shawne DOB: Feb. 16, 1986
Roy DOB: December11, 1986


Watching the two of them is going to give us an interesting comparison of two routes to the pros.
I sure had that wrong, I was thinking he was younger, but he's still pretty young.

Since86
07-10-2008, 03:35 PM
That's my dad's big idea about sporting games.

When was the last time you watched an NBA game and actually learned something? He says they should just mic up regular college guys, give them beer and food, and let them loose.

pianoman
07-10-2008, 05:07 PM
i'd play shawne sparingly at pf. I'd rather have baston or granger there though

Justin Tyme
07-11-2008, 05:54 PM
Game 5 of the Summer League.

Shawne's stats:

31 min... 5-14FG ... "0-6" 3pt... 2-4FT... "1" reb... 5 fouls... "7" TO's

Now, someone tell me again why we are keeping Williams? Oh yeah, he's got potential!:sarcasm:

Cherokee
07-11-2008, 07:41 PM
Among the six Pacers who played 15 minutes a game or more, Williams finished:
Minutes Played: 159 (1st)
FG%: .377 (5th)
3FG%: .318 (5th) - Sims didn't shoot any, though.
FT%: .741 (5th)
Rebounds: 2.8 (6th)
Assists: 5 (5th)
PF/DQ: 23-3 (1st in both)
Stl: 5 (3rd)
TO: 22 (1st)
Blk: 2 (3rd)
PPG: 14.6 (1st)

Potential what?

Leroy Staley
07-11-2008, 08:22 PM
When was the last time you watched an NBA game and actually learned something?

Good point.

Were Dante and Galante really that different than Jackson and Van Gundy's schtick during the finals?

Kuq_e_Zi91
07-11-2008, 10:54 PM
Man can you imagine Dante and Galante doing the finals...damn. Let's get like a petition going or something.

I can't stand Van Gundy trying to be funny. Breen and Jackson are good though.

Hicks
07-11-2008, 11:44 PM
Dante and Galante need to stick to Summer League.

Leroy Staley
07-12-2008, 11:03 AM
Dante and Galante need to stick to Summer League.

So should Van Gundy.

Van Gundy and Jackson epitomize what I dislike about NBA announcers. They spend a disproportionate amount of time discussing motivation and effort, and very little time on X's and O's. Why does team X use player A as a screener in the pick and roll? Why do some teams hedge the pick and roll while others switch? If one tracks the efficacy of either approach, is one more effective than the other? Which post players are statistically better at dealing with a double team? What percent of time does team X run a pick and roll vs. another offensive set? I would much rather hear more about the strategy behind the game, as oppposed to hearing Jackson say for the hundredth time that "Player X needs to bring it, because this the finals." Is this really the biggest determinant of who wins or loses? Are players really having trouble getting motivated to play?

I don't think this is as prevalent in other sports. Of course, in football and baseball there is more time between plays, so there is ample time to discuss the various coaching decisions. The better comparison would be hockey, but I don't watch it enough to really evaluate the announcers.

Tom White
07-12-2008, 12:44 PM
Dante and Galante need to stick to Summer League Slovenian Field Hockey.

Fixed it.

Tom White
07-12-2008, 12:48 PM
Among the six Pacers who played 15 minutes a game or more, Williams finished:
Minutes Played: 159 (1st)
FG%: .377 (5th)
3FG%: .318 (5th) - Sims didn't shoot any, though.
FT%: .741 (5th)
Rebounds: 2.8 (6th)
Assists: 5 (5th)
PF/DQ: 23-3 (1st in both)
Stl: 5 (3rd)
TO: 22 (1st)
Blk: 2 (3rd)
PPG: 14.6 (1st)

Potential what?

Those stats are terrible, especially considering the competition. Do you know how heavily his 3pt % weighed down his overall fg %? How about a comparison of number of fga's vs. his Pacer running mates?

Mourning
07-12-2008, 02:59 PM
It's just summer league. I say keep him this year to see what we have. He's still very young and his value is at a low anyway, so why the rush to deal him?