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The Unknown
07-01-2008, 10:25 AM
According to the IndyStar we are (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080701/SPORTS04/807010357/1088/SPORTS04).

Landry had a fantastic rookie season and was one of the biggest reasons Houston continued to roll after Yao went down. If we could actually land him, this would be the greatest 2 week period for Pacer basketball in many years.

rock747
07-01-2008, 10:28 AM
Yeah, this would seriously be amazing.

Unclebuck
07-01-2008, 10:28 AM
That article doesn't really say the Pacers are interested in him. Just mentions him as a possible free agent target. I don't infer that to mean the Pacers are interested, just that he is a free agent.

He looked good last season, would be a good backup.

rexnom
07-01-2008, 10:28 AM
According to the IndyStar we are (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080701/SPORTS04/807010357/1088/SPORTS04).

Landry had a fantastic rookie season and was one of the biggest reasons Houston continued to roll after Yao went down. If we could actually land him, this would be the greatest 2 week period for Pacer basketball in many years.
I think they are more hypothesizing than anything. I think every team in the NBA would love to have Landry, the Pacers not being an exception.

2minutes twowa
07-01-2008, 10:29 AM
Landry would be a great addition!

Hicks
07-01-2008, 10:30 AM
That article doesn't really say the Pacers are interested in him. Just mentions him as a possible free agent target. I don't infer that to mean the Pacers are interested, just that he is a free agent.

Exactly. With that said, he'd be a good addition to the team, from what little I saw of him. Plays with great energy and plays bigger than he is.

It'd be good for P.R., too.

Naptown_Seth
07-01-2008, 11:31 AM
Pacers will likely pass on big-name free agents
In other news, the sun came up. :p

I did like the blurb about Landry in the market, though Houston has the qualifier in on him so they can match any offers. That's sub 800K but I'd assume he'll see an improvement on that. I also assume with a portion of the MLE they could match his market value.

But for the most part I not only am not worried about the FA market, I'd just as soon see them pass on most things. You aren't building for this year and probably aren't yet ready to understand exactly what you need to tweek next at this point.

Gotta see who pans out a bit, who needs help, etc. And we shouldn't be in a huge race to improve. I'm as anti-tanker as you get but with Blake Griffin in next year's draft I could deal with the team trying to find it's way this year and learning through losses.

Trader Joe
07-01-2008, 11:34 AM
Pacers will likely pass on big-name free agents
In other news, the sun came up. :p



I just posted this in the other thread.


In other news, the sky is blue.

:D

indygeezer
07-01-2008, 12:05 PM
Pacers will likely pass on big-name free agents
In other news, the sun came up. :p

I did like the blurb about Landry in the market, though Houston has the qualifier in on him so they can match any offers. That's sub 800K but I'd assume he'll see an improvement on that. I also assume with a portion of the MLE they could match his market value.

But for the most part I not only am not worried about the FA market, I'd just as soon see them pass on most things. You aren't building for this year and probably aren't yet ready to understand exactly what you need to tweek next at this point.

Gotta see who pans out a bit, who needs help, etc. And we shouldn't be in a huge race to improve. I'm as anti-tanker as you get but with Blake Griffin in next year's draft I could deal with the team trying to find it's way this year and learning through losses.


Donnie??? Holy Mackeral!! DW has joined Pacers Digest!!!

Just messing with ya Seth....snicker snort. But I will disagree with one statement. I am convinced that the only thing you learn by losing is how to lose....nothing good comes from losing.

deekay85
07-01-2008, 12:27 PM
another undersized PF, but with decent athletic ability. I don't know if Obie would give him a chance to prove himself (the same situation with Ike).
But he is a guy who can really step up of the bench.
We'll see.

CompACE
07-01-2008, 12:28 PM
Boiler Up!!!

Speed
07-01-2008, 12:38 PM
If you could sign and trade for him for a Shawne Williams or Marquis Daniels, you'd have increased your team toughness, instantly, and lost nothing (well Marquis is making too much and is expiring so you'd lose cap space.)

DGPR
07-01-2008, 12:48 PM
Realgm.com is reporting that we could extend an offer to Landry. Basically they are using the same information that we all got from the Star.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53313/20080701/pacers_could_extend_offer_to_landry/

naptownmenace
07-01-2008, 12:52 PM
Landry's a restricted FA which means the Rockets can match any offer if they choose. Either way, he'll be getting a nice raise as PF who can score in the post and rebound well make a killing in the NBA.

We'd have to use a good portion of our MLE to make an offer and then the Rockets could just match it, which I think they would.

Young
07-01-2008, 01:09 PM
Landry would be a nice addition but I expect the Rockets to match about any offer given to him.

duke dynamite
07-01-2008, 01:09 PM
I'm not sure, but I think Shawne Williams could do well in Houston. In my mind it seems like a good fit.

I dunno...

LoneGranger33
07-01-2008, 01:51 PM
No Landry for Williams swap please.

Oneal07
07-01-2008, 01:57 PM
I like his energy!!!

MyFavMartin
07-01-2008, 02:18 PM
Landry would be a nice addition but I expect the Rockets to match about any offer given to him.

Maybe... maybe not... the Rockets did get Dorsey and have Hayes and Scola... How many PFs would they need?

Anthem
07-01-2008, 02:32 PM
No Landry for Williams swap please.
Why not? Seems like a no-brainer from our end.

It would mean Baston getting squeezed out of the rotation again, which is a shame. But I'd still go for it..

MyFavMartin
07-01-2008, 04:33 PM
Why not? Seems like a no-brainer from our end.

It would mean Baston getting squeezed out of the rotation again, which is a shame. But I'd still go for it..

Houston picked up Donte Green so I'm not sure they would have any desire for Williams.

Placebo
07-01-2008, 04:41 PM
Not sure Houston would do sign/trade. Their roster is packed. If they want to keep Landry, they will, if they don't they will let him go. I would be very surprised to see Houston taking other players for him...

aceace
07-01-2008, 05:43 PM
We currently have 16 players under contract, we need some 2 for 1 trades. Here is what I come up with at present. Murphy 10.1m
Dunn 9m
Nestorovic 8.4m
Ford 8m
Daniels 6.8m
Tinsley 6.8m
Foster 6.2m
Granger 2.3m
Jack 2m
Diener 1.6
S.Williams 1.6
Hibbert (around 1.5m)
B.Rush (around 1.8m)
Baston 2m
McRoberts 800k
Graham 800k

Where would we put Landry?

duke dynamite
07-01-2008, 06:08 PM
Why not? Seems like a no-brainer from our end.

It would mean Baston getting squeezed out of the rotation again, which is a shame. But I'd still go for it..
I'd hope for July 9th to hurry up and then offer Baston along with Daniels.

The Unknown
07-01-2008, 06:17 PM
We currently have 16 players under contract, we need some 2 for 1 trades. Here is what I come up with at present. Murphy 10.1m
Dunn 9m
Nestorovic 8.4m
Ford 8m
Daniels 6.8m
Tinsley 6.8m
Foster 6.2m
Granger 2.3m
Jack 2m
Diener 1.6
S.Williams 1.6
Hibbert (around 1.5m)
B.Rush (around 1.8m)
Baston 2m
McRoberts 800k
Graham 800k

Where would we put Landry?

Backup PF at first, with the real possibility of being our starter of the future.

eldubious
07-01-2008, 07:41 PM
If the Pacers wanted a PF like Landry, why didn't they ask for Portland's 2nd round pick, then they could have picked up Arthur or DJ White. I don't think they will make a serious effort to get Landry.

Taterhead
07-01-2008, 07:49 PM
Not sure Houston would do sign/trade. Their roster is packed. If they want to keep Landry, they will, if they don't they will let him go. I would be very surprised to see Houston taking other players for him...

You are probably right. But we could offer them a draft pick of some sort, I guess it depends on whether or not we could work a three way with another team to land them something they really value.

All that aside, Landry would be a great aquisition and I hope they could come up with a small trade to get him.

Unclebuck
07-02-2008, 09:35 AM
Seems as though he isn't all together happy with the Rockets.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5867051.html


Agent says Landry has healthy knee
Additional tests Rockets requested termed a move 'to undercut' value


By JONATHAN FEIGEN
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle



With the Rockets seeking additional medical tests before extending a contract offer to restricted free agent Carl Landry, Landry's agent shot back that the request was designed to frighten off other suitors and said the tactic has backfired.

Agent Buddy Baker said Tuesday that Landry has no health issues, and that Dr. James Andrews declared Landry's right knee to be sound.

Rockets general manager Daryl Morey said Monday the team would need more detailed information than available with imaging tests before it could make an offer to Landry, though it still expected to keep Landry.

Such tests typically provide information related to a player's long-term prognosis, rather than immediate ability to play.

Baker, however, said Landry is generating interest around the league. The Rockets can match any offer Landry receives, as long as it fits within their salary-cap limitations or exceptions. If he receives and accepts an offer, the Rockets would have to choose whether to match it without the further examination, unless Landry reverses his position and undergoes more testing.

"Obviously, I view it as a move on (Morey's) part to undercut his value and dissuade the interest he has garnered,'' Baker said. "The reverse has happened. Teams have taken the position that he will not match offers. That has opened the floodgates. They are operating as if (Landry) was an unrestricted free agent.''

Baker would not identify the teams that have expressed interest in Landry or whether Landry has any preferences. After the season, Landry said he hoped to return to the Rockets. Baker, however, said Landry is working out with no difficulties.

"Carl feels great,'' Baker said. "He was completely cleared by the nationally and internationally renowned physician, James Andrews in Birmingham. Carl keeps himself in good shape, and there is a lot of interest in him. There are no concerns. Carl missed a few games and came back and played with no difficulties.

"It is curious that (Morey) would make this statement on the eve of free agency.''

Morey, however, said there was nothing new about his requests.

"We have discussed this with Buddy and Carl since the end of the season,'' Morey said. "We discussed the importance of getting more information. We plan to match any offer and expect any team that is planning to give him an offer to request the same information.''

The Rockets began free-agency negotiations with a call to San Antonio Spurs guard Brent Barry, but indicated interest in Landry by offering Barry the lower level exception, leaving whatever portion of the mid-level that might be needed to match an offer Landry might accept.

Meanwhile, the Rockets on Tuesday named their summer league team, led by Aaron Brooks, who was named the top rookie of last season's summer league; this season's draft choices, Donté Greene, Joey Dorsey and Maarty Leunen; and returning veterans Mike Harris and Loren Woods.

Former University of Houston point guard Lanny Smith and former Texas A&M forward Joseph Jones also are part of the team.

The Rockets' summer league team also includes former Kansas guard Russell Robinson, former UCLA forward DijonThompson, former Temple guard Mark Tyndale and guard Gustavo Barrera of Uruguay.

jonathan.feigen@chron.com

rexnom
07-02-2008, 09:39 AM
We currently have 16 players under contract, we need some 2 for 1 trades. Here is what I come up with at present. Murphy 10.1m
Dunn 9m
Nestorovic 8.4m
Ford 8m
Daniels 6.8m
Tinsley 6.8m
Foster 6.2m
Granger 2.3m
Jack 2m
Diener 1.6
S.Williams 1.6
Hibbert (around 1.5m)
B.Rush (around 1.8m)
Baston 2m
McRoberts 800k
Graham 800k

Where would we put Landry?
Yea, I think we're fairly set. Damn, it's nice to see two out of our five biggest contracts be expiring.

Naptown_Seth
07-02-2008, 09:48 AM
Donnie??? Holy Mackeral!! DW has joined Pacers Digest!!!

Just messing with ya Seth....snicker snort. But I will disagree with one statement. I am convinced that the only thing you learn by losing is how to lose....nothing good comes from losing.
As an engineer I can assure you that the ONLY time you learn is when you fail. If everything goes right you have no idea why. When it doesn't it becomes pretty freaking clear. :D

Like I said, I'm anti-tanker, the MOST anti-tanker on this board or the Star previously. I've ripped on "get high picks" threads and posts ad nauseum. And I do think you can "learn to lose" if the culture allows for it. That's what good coaching, good vets and a good front office are for, to find the positives and maintain the direction and morale.

Set the right goals and you aren't failing. Defensive FG%, TO amounts, amount of tipped balls, and so on are items that you focus on rather than the W/L. Then when those things get better and the wins start to come the point is made on their importance.


I think it's a waste of money chasing FAs to fill holes that you aren't sure are you main holes or not yet. Do you want to spend on a PF now only to see Rush struggle while Hibbert excels and frees Foster/Troy to handle the main PF duties? Go spend on a SG and see C turn into a disaster? You just added 7 guys, you are moving as many out, you don't know this roster's dynamics yet.

Another trade I get, but let's not be in a hurry to add salary just yet, especially with a technically full roster.

The Unknown
07-02-2008, 09:48 AM
I'd offer him 3/$18M. He's 6'9" 250 lb. and very quick and athletic. His production as a rookie was very good and he played a big role in the Rockets Yao-less success. He looks to me like another David West-type PF and would fit in great with our team. I think he's worth the risk. If he doesn't pan out, his contract would be fairly short. It could work for Landry as well, since if he does break out, he wont be tied into an underpaid contract.

Naptown_Seth
07-02-2008, 09:55 AM
I hadn't read past Geezer on my last post, but to make it clear while I wouldn't spend on MOST players right now, Landry is a nice hitter on all counts for the Pacers - hometown hero, energy kid, made something of himself rather than coming in as a star, and plays PF.

To me you get him thinking that you want him long term, not filling a short term need. PG-Rush-Granger-Landry-Hibbert becomes your 3 year target for a starting lineup.

rexnom
07-02-2008, 10:02 AM
I hadn't read past Geezer on my last post, but to make it clear while I wouldn't spend on MOST players right now, Landry is a nice hitter on all counts for the Pacers - hometown hero, energy kid, made something of himself rather than coming in as a star, and plays PF.

To me you get him thinking that you want him long term, not filling a short term need. PG-Rush-Granger-Landry-Hibbert becomes your 3 year target for a starting lineup.
You still don't feel comfortable with TJ/Jack (both around Danny's age) as our PG rotation for the future?

Edit: How good is Landry? I felt that he was a nice bruiser type of guy. Does he have a chance to make a David West like leap?

2minutes twowa
07-02-2008, 10:05 AM
You still don't feel comfortable with TJ/Jack (both around Danny's age) as our PG rotation for the future?

Edit: How good is Landry? I felt that he was a nice bruiser type of guy. Does he have a chance to make a David West like leap?

I doubt he reaches David West status, but I think he could be this Pacer team's version of Antonio Davis. That would be fine with me, I loved Tony.

Justin Tyme
07-02-2008, 10:14 AM
You still don't feel comfortable with TJ/Jack (both around Danny's age) as our PG rotation for the future?

Edit: How good is Landry? I felt that he was a nice bruiser type of guy. Does he have a chance to make a David West like leap?

Landry isn't the DD type bruiser, but rebounds well. His game is not limited to putback/garbage buckets. He has a mid-range jumper, and at Purdue he could shoot the 3 when necessary.

rexnom
07-02-2008, 10:28 AM
Landry isn't the DD type bruiser, but rebounds well. His game is not limited to putback/garbage buckets. He has a mid-range jumper, and at Purdue he could shoot the 3 when necessary.
I would love to see TJ get some more pick and roll options. Hibbert could develop into a nice option there as well. If you have two shooters/penetrators on the wing (Rush and Danny), two solid big guys who can spread the floor and a creator, I think you can really do some damage.

pacergod2
07-02-2008, 11:34 AM
i would give the kid a deal in the 5 year 21M range. With the thinking that you would be offering (5M, 4M, 4M, 4M, 4M) a front loaded contract this year so the rockets CAN'T match that. I might be worried about other teams, but for 5M I think we would easily be the highest bidder. This gives us a full five years of a young guy. If he doesn't get any better he is worth 4M/year as a local guy with a good head. I dont know if his agent would go for 5 years, but we ought to try to sign him for as long as possible being so young and with our core. It only makes sense.

I feel like we will be making another move this off-season (probably late summer once we get these guys in for summer league and see what we have). We have a lot of opportunity to get under the luxury tax threshold if we end up over it by a million or two by signing landry. i say we sign him because houston doesn't really have the ability to resign the guy. we wont be able to afford him later if we don't take our shot now.

D-BONE
07-02-2008, 11:38 AM
As an engineer I can assure you that the ONLY time you learn is when you fail. If everything goes right you have no idea why. When it doesn't it becomes pretty freaking clear. :D

Like I said, I'm anti-tanker, the MOST anti-tanker on this board or the Star previously. I've ripped on "get high picks" threads and posts ad nauseum. And I do think you can "learn to lose" if the culture allows for it. That's what good coaching, good vets and a good front office are for, to find the positives and maintain the direction and morale.

Set the right goals and you aren't failing. Defensive FG%, TO amounts, amount of tipped balls, and so on are items that you focus on rather than the W/L. Then when those things get better and the wins start to come the point is made on their importance.


I think it's a waste of money chasing FAs to fill holes that you aren't sure are you main holes or not yet. Do you want to spend on a PF now only to see Rush struggle while Hibbert excels and frees Foster/Troy to handle the main PF duties? Go spend on a SG and see C turn into a disaster? You just added 7 guys, you are moving as many out, you don't know this roster's dynamics yet.

Another trade I get, but let's not be in a hurry to add salary just yet, especially with a technically full roster.

All good points. We have enough to move forward with no further additions. The two guys out there I really like without any consideration of the reality of what it would take to attain them are Landry and Quentin Ross. I certainly won't be disappointed if we don't get them or anyone else. Kind of a in a perfect world scenario.

As to the PF spot, I competely expect at least one if not both of Foster/Murphy to shift to primarily PF roles. I think they are both more 4s than 5s although Jeff can do either in many cases. Even if Hibbert is slow to develop, I have to think Rasho alone will provide a decent enough C option to allow that flexibility.

duke dynamite
07-02-2008, 11:40 AM
I'm still not completely sold on the idea of Foster being a 4 instead of a 5. I just have a feeling it won't work out.

Speed
07-02-2008, 11:43 AM
All good points. We have enough to move forward with no further additions. The two guys out there I really like without any consideration of the reality of what it would take to attain them are Landry and Quentin Ross. I certainly won't be disappointed if we don't get them or anyone else. Kind of a in a perfect world scenario.

As to the PF spot, I competely expect at least one if not both of Foster/Murphy to shift to primarily PF roles. I think they are both more 4s than 5s although Jeff can do either in many cases. Even if Hibbert is slow to develop, I have to think Rasho alone will provide a decent enough C option to allow that flexibility.

I agree. I think if Hibbert can play its a bonus and if you can play Nesto, Murphy, & Foster 32 mins each at the 4/5, you'll be okay. I think Maceo is even serviceable on a short term basis, so you aren't completed done, if Hibbert isn't ready.

However, I love Landry's toughness.

The Unknown
07-02-2008, 11:51 AM
"Obviously, I view it as a move on (Morey's) part to undercut his value and dissuade the interest he has garnered,'' Baker said. "The reverse has happened. Teams have taken the position that he will not match offers. That has opened the floodgates. They are operating as if (Landry) was an unrestricted free agent.''

Sounds like Landry's agent isn't too thrilled with the Rocket's GM. This could improve the chances of Landry going elsewhere. Like, for example, the Indiana Pacers. :p

jhutt50
07-02-2008, 11:55 AM
I watched all of Landry's home games his senior season. The guy is a monster, and knows how to score a variety of ways in the post. He also has really good character, and I think he can be a long time starter in this league.

pizza guy
07-02-2008, 11:59 AM
Get Landry.

Foster and Murph might be decent now, but Jeff is getting old, and Murph is Murph. I think Landry is a perfect fit for what we're trying to do with this team. And who doesn't love a home-town boy?

Not to mention, he's young and would be with us while the teams developes the other young talent.

Offer whatever we can, and if Houston wants to match it, try to S&T for him. I don't think there is any downside to getting Carl Landry in a Pacers uni.

--pizza

docpaul
07-02-2008, 12:18 PM
Man, if we could get this guy, I'd be a happy fan.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/rookies/blogs?playerId=3217&season=2008&playerRankingType=1&period=1&set=0&blogSet=0

I'd even go so far as to wager that he's a better prospect than Rush.

The Unknown
07-02-2008, 12:27 PM
Why do I keep hearing about Landry being undersized, and why does ESPN have him listed as 6'7"? He measured out at 6'7.75" barefoot, the same exact barefoot height as Boozer, Jamison, Kevin Love, and David Lee - all guys listed at 6'9".

MyFavMartin
07-02-2008, 12:33 PM
Why do I keep hearing about Landry being undersized, and why does ESPN have him listed as 6'7"? He measured out at 6'7.75" barefoot, the same exact barefoot height as Boozer, Jamison, Kevin Love, and David Lee - all guys listed at 6'9".

ESPN is using his measurement when he entered college, but Landry grew during college about an inch. Most guys don't grow in height after 18-19, so ESPN is sticking to this assumption and haven't updated their info.

ABADays
07-02-2008, 12:40 PM
Regarding some of the monetary posts. If I'm Landry's agent he is not going to sign a 5-year deal. And if I'm the Pacers I'm not offering 18M-20M over 3 years.

Justin Tyme
07-02-2008, 01:59 PM
Regarding some of the monetary posts. If I'm Landry's agent he is not going to sign a 5-year deal. And if I'm the Pacers I'm not offering 18M-20M over 3 years.

Common sense prevails.

I'd like to see Landry in a Pacers uni, but lets not get carried away with spending the Simons money. Which at times seems to be prevalent with posters. Lets be realistic. How much money can the Pacers offer Landry w/o going into LT land? That dictates what the Pacers can/would offer... if Bird is even interested in Landry. Not to mention Landry only has played 1 year. Is Landry the PF of the future you want to be tied to based on 1 year at some of the salaries flying around in this thread? If you sign Landry, what 2 guaranteed contracts are you going to eat? You can't count on making some 2 for 1 trades to adjust the roster to 15.

Like I stated, it's nice to see some common sense prevail.

The Unknown
07-02-2008, 02:03 PM
3/$18M is perfectly acceptable for Landry considering the going rate for big men and what he showed during his outstanding rookie season. If you don't wanna go over the luxary tax, you may be able to get the Rockets to take on Quis' expiring in a sign and trade.

Pacers
07-02-2008, 02:04 PM
I'm a huge fan of Carl Landry. I went to almost every game when we were at Vincennes University at the same time in 03-04, and watched most of his Purdue games on TV. I told everyone that would listen that we needed to get into the 2nd round for this guy (he went a little higher than people had expected). I'd love to see him here if he's at the right price.

Justin Tyme
07-02-2008, 04:06 PM
3/$18M is perfectly acceptable for Landry considering the going rate for big men and what he showed during his outstanding rookie season. If you don't wanna go over the luxary tax, you may be able to get the Rockets to take on Quis' expiring in a sign and trade.


Some team may give him that kind of a contract, but I doubt it. What I don't doubt is it won't be from the Pacers, unless it's in a S&T with a Pacer player who has an expiring... Quis or Foster.

A 4-5 mil a year for 3-4 years is more what I'd expect as a contract.

MyFavMartin
07-02-2008, 04:35 PM
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0306/nba_a_rockets1_580.jpg


McGrady is listed as 6'8", Landry 6'9" and Jackson 6'1". Can't find a team roster photo where all are standing side-by-side.

Can't tell be the pic but Landry looks to be taller than McGrady, but only because he's closer to the camera.

Needs to grow the hair out to get back to 6'9".

grace
07-02-2008, 06:17 PM
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0306/nba_a_rockets1_580.jpg


McGrady is listed as 6'8", Landry 6'9" and Jackson 6'1". Can't find a team roster photo where all are standing side-by-side.

Can't tell be the pic but Landry looks to be taller than McGrady, but only because he's closer to the camera.

Needs to grow the hair out to get back to 6'9".

I'm not inferring that this picture is bogus, but I've also seen a picture of me riding camels with Mike Dunleavy.

Anthem
07-02-2008, 07:18 PM
I doubt he reaches David West status
Take away his PG and David West doesn't reach David West status.

duke dynamite
07-02-2008, 07:23 PM
I'm not inferring that this picture is bogus, but I've also seen a picture of me riding camels with Mike Dunleavy.
Prove it ha ha.

Anthem
07-02-2008, 08:03 PM
Prove it ha ha.
That was before your time, I guess.

You'd have to get it from MR... I doubt grace saved it.

Doddage
07-02-2008, 09:15 PM
Take away his PG and David West doesn't reach David West status.
That's not true. David West is very capable of creating his own shots and isn't merely a product of CP3. Sure, CP3 gives him quality looks a lot of times but to say West depends on that for his offense isn't the way it is. Tyson Chandler, on the other hand...

MyFavMartin
07-02-2008, 10:45 PM
I'm not inferring that this picture is bogus, but I've also seen a picture of me riding camels with Mike Dunleavy.

Those weren't camels.

That was Shade's mom.

grace
07-02-2008, 11:01 PM
That was before your time, I guess.

You'd have to get it from MR... I doubt grace saved it.


No, I didn't save it. I'm hoping it was lost when MR's computer crashed.