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View Full Version : Shawne Williams - What Do We Do With Him?



Hoop
06-30-2008, 12:11 AM
I know Bird's not happy with him, for obvious reasons, but is Bird saying that to motivate Shawne or is he really on his way out of town. If he's really a knuckle head I want he gone, but if he's a young guy that made a few bad choices I'd like him to have a chance this season. I guess, only insiders really know what Shawne is about. Is he a hard worker? Wasted cause?

Coming out of college many experts reported his ceiling was unlimited and quote "A highlight waiting to happen", I assume they were not talking about felony's. He's listed at 6-9 with a 7'3" wingspan, that's major reachability < I finally got to use that word. During a telecast last season Clark called him a 7 footer, maybe he's grown since college? I thought he played well when he received playing time last season, but almost all his minutes were at the 3. His basketball IQ seems pretty good, even if his off court one is not.

Here's what was said about him before he was drafted:
http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/shawnewilliams.html
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Shawne-Williams-296/
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shawne_williams/index.html (watch the draft profile video)
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2006/draft/players/37951.html
http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/Draft/2006/shawnewilliams.htm
http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=1444710
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/West-Coast-Swing-Shawne-Williams,-Thomas-Gardner-Workout-1320/


If he can't play PF, I don't see him ever playing much here. Can he play PF? To me he seems like a prefect fit for JOB's system. Unless we make a trade for a PF it looks like there's plenty of playing time to be had at the 4. He shoots the 3 pretty good and he can't be any worse than Murphy on D. His rebounding and shot blocking should improve if he's not always guarding wing players like he did last season. His offensive game would not have to change being a face up 4 as long as he can guard 4's.

Thoughts?

Shade
06-30-2008, 12:29 AM
Keep him.

Or trade him for Jerryd Bayless. I hear he's pretty good.

CapnBruisin
06-30-2008, 12:34 AM
I hope we keep him and he finds some success.

I think he gets a bumb rap for being associated with people who cross the law. I find it difficult to berate him when he has done little wrong himself other than chosen poorly who to hang out with.

Shade
06-30-2008, 12:44 AM
I hope we keep him and he finds some success.

I think he gets a bumb rap for being associated with people who cross the law. I find it difficult to berate him when he has done little wrong himself other than chosen poorly who to hang out with.

:amen:

Unless Larry knows something personally about Shawne that we don't, he's getting a lot of unfair flack. Probably because of all of his law-defiant predecessors.

Noodle
06-30-2008, 01:10 AM
I agree with your notion that Larry's comment was more of a motivation tool. SW gets another chance, unless he's packaged for another proven player. SW has a seriously, beautiful upside. SW's body should be maturing, he just turned 22 in February. If he will ever play the 4, he'll show it this year. I keep hearing talk about acquiring Shawn Marion, when we have a young 6'9" version. The problem is whether or not JOb is willing to play SW at the 4. When we went small late last season with SW at the 4, it was fun to watch.

In Seattle, their doing the same thing to Durant.

Bball
06-30-2008, 01:22 AM
:amen:

Unless Larry knows something personally about Shawne that we don't, he's getting a lot of unfair flack. Probably because of all of his law-defiant predecessors.

How in the world would Larry know something that we don't????


;)
-Bball

CableKC
06-30-2008, 01:30 AM
I view him as sweetner....if we can package Shawne with Marquis to get the type of PF that we need that won't kill us financially, then I would move him. If we can package him with Tinsley to simply move him...then I would move him.

But I don't want to simply give him away....if we don't get a solid PF with Marquis ( an Expiring Contract ) or able to move Tinsley for a player with a worse contract....then I won't mind keeping him.

I would keep him to fill the backup SF and PF positions and see if he continues his improvement.

jjbjjbjjb
06-30-2008, 04:20 AM
A year older, Tinsley gone, a lot of solid character guys coming in.

A frontcourt in desperate need of... a lot of things, not least of which is some potential for greatness.

Doesn't that easily add up to a case for keeping the guy at least through this upcoming season?

JayRedd
06-30-2008, 06:54 AM
Whatever.

He's not that good.

aceace
06-30-2008, 07:19 AM
Package him with Tinsley in a trade get a couple folding chairs for the locker room.

He hangs with drug dealers and murderers.

Mourning
06-30-2008, 07:34 AM
Keep him.

Or trade him for Jerryd Bayless. I hear he's pretty good.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Seriously, I hope we keep him for another year to get a definitive on what we got and IF we like it we can keep him or at the very worst have raised his worth as a trading chip.

I see no need for trading him now unless he's vital to making a trade in the frontcourt that nets us something that REALLY is a solution there and not a simple stop gap.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

rexnom
06-30-2008, 08:02 AM
We need to try him out at the 4 before reaching any definite conclusions.

Trader Joe
06-30-2008, 08:23 AM
I hope we keep him and he finds some success.

I think he gets a bumb rap for being associated with people who cross the law. I find it difficult to berate him when he has done little wrong himself other than chosen poorly who to hang out with.

Yeah, but some of the people he chooses to hang out with speak pretty loudly about just how dumb he is.
He got to entirely change states and start over clean and he wasn't able to do it. I think the kid is going nowhere fast, and just doesn't get it.

QuickRelease
06-30-2008, 08:34 AM
Yeah, but some of the people he chooses to hang out with speak pretty loudly about just how dumb he is.
He got to entirely change states and start over clean and he wasn't able to do it. I think the kid is going nowhere fast, and just doesn't get it.

Well, Indianapolis isn't exactly on the other side of the world as far as Memphis is concerned. It's just a 6hr hop north, which is a small sacrifice for hanger-ons.

jeffg-body
06-30-2008, 08:37 AM
I agree that we should keep him another year at least to see if he can mature into that 4 spot. I would be ok with trading him as a sweetener if we got a legit starting PF in the process.

Trader Joe
06-30-2008, 08:45 AM
Well, Indianapolis isn't exactly on the other side of the world as far as Memphis is concerned. It's just a 6hr hop north, which is a small sacrifice for hanger-ons.

Its long enough that Shawne should have no trouble making sure an accused murderer doesn't show up at his door wanting to sleep on a couch.

RamBo_Lamar
06-30-2008, 08:52 AM
I hope we keep him and he finds some success.

I think he gets a bumb rap for being associated with people who cross the law. I find it difficult to berate him when he has done little wrong himself other than chosen poorly who to hang out with.


He chose even more poorly when he skipped his court date.

While I am usually wrong, my impression is that he does not have the
mental toughness or the heart it takes to be a champion in the NBA.

He is 1 incident away from being run out of town on a rail as it is, so I
would say go ahead and trade him now while we can get something for
him. Maybe they can package him with Quis and kill two birds with one
stone while they are at it.

No more pussy-footing around with these fools.

Putnam
06-30-2008, 08:53 AM
Keep him. Groom him to play power forward. Reform his character.

Sam Perkins is here now, and his job is to keep Shawne on the straight and narrow, day and night.

Some of you will say this is a joke because Perkins himself partied when he was a playa. But he's not a playa now. His job is to keep the young playas' heads in the game, and he'll probably spend a lot more of his time dogging Shawne than anybody else. Shawne has needed a man to guide him all his life, and now he has one.

The Pacers can't afford to keep as many troublemakers (or trouble-finders) as they've had. But with Harrison, Tinsley and maybe Daniels going, Shawne would be the only guy on the roster with a police file. There will no longer be a culture of broads, bullets and blunts, and maybe Shawne will decide to play basketball for a living.

idioteque
06-30-2008, 10:14 AM
Instead of finding a band aid at the 4 this season, start Williams there and see what happens. Our answer to our need at the 4 position long term could already be on the roster.

The guy made some mistakes, but there are public officials on both sides of the aisle, and plenty of role models who made mistakes that are arguably just as bad as hanging out with murderers before they were 22, and the media and most people have forgiven them for it.

I think there is enough good press around the Pacers this season that will take the focus off of Shawne's indiscretions (I can't believe I said that). However, he needs to be on a zero tolerance policy- if he makes one mistake off the court, ship him out immediately or if you have to, cut him.

If he shows promise at the 4 this year and commits to staying out of trouble, keep him.

Justin Tyme
06-30-2008, 10:17 AM
He chose even more poorly when he skipped his court date.

While I am usually wrong, my impression is that he does not have the
mental toughness or the heart it takes to be a champion in the NBA.

He is 1 incident away from being run out of town on a rail as it is, so I
would say go ahead and trade him now while we can get something for
him. Maybe they can package him with Quis and kill two birds with one
stone while they are at it.

No more pussy-footing around with these fools.


IIRC, someone on this board said they lived across the street from Shawne and his house was like a constant party. That tells me he hasn't learned a thing about how to conduct himself, pick who he associates with, or how to conduct his life. It's a problem in the making and one police call away. The LAST thing this franchise needs, after trying to create a new image to get the fans to return, is a PR nightmare caused by Williams. If I was Bird, who only has 2 years on his contract and on a short leash, I can't take the chance of a PR problem with a player who has produced them in the past. A problem from Williams would destroy everything the Pacers have been able to achieve so far. Way too much to risk at this stage.

I'm not a Bird the GM fan, but I do believe when Bird says something to the effect that if they can find a trade for Williams he's gone. Bird is smart enough to know Williams can destroy the image he's trying to create for the Pacers.

Sorry, but Shawne is just one episode away from from causing the Pacers major problems. He's a problem in the making. He needs to be traded ASAP. He offers nothing to the Pacers that they can't find in another player w/o the "potential" risk factor. JMOAA

Putnam
06-30-2008, 10:29 AM
The organization ought not to forgive and forget Shawne's bad behavior. The community isn't going to. What they ought to do is ride his butt day and night, asking "Where you at?" and "Who you with?" and making Shawne grow up and become the basketball player that he can be.

Rambo Lamar is right that Shawne is only one episode away, but then so is Mike Dunleavy. So are we all. If that next scandal never happens, then Shawne is golden. Let's see to it that it doesn't ever happen.

Shawne won't reform himself. The Pacers' organization has recognized that it needs to take some responsibility for helping this kid grow up. Perkins is on the job.

Unclebuck
06-30-2008, 10:47 AM
I wouldn't be opposed to trading him, but I don't want to just give him away. I still like his overall offensive game and athletic talent.

duke dynamite
06-30-2008, 11:06 AM
Can we send him to Europe?

I do see Shawne progressing, but I don't know where. As much as I like him, I really don't think that he will get that motivation here.

LoneGranger33
06-30-2008, 11:10 AM
He's only 22 years old.

duke dynamite
06-30-2008, 11:13 AM
Keep him. Groom him to play power forward. Reform his character.

Sam Perkins is here now, and his job is to keep Shawne on the straight and narrow, day and night.

Some of you will say this is a joke because Perkins himself partied when he was a playa. But he's not a playa now. His job is to keep the young playas' heads in the game, and he'll probably spend a lot more of his time dogging Shawne than anybody else. Shawne has needed a man to guide him all his life, and now he has one.

The Pacers can't afford to keep as many troublemakers (or trouble-finders) as they've had. But with Harrison, Tinsley and maybe Daniels going, Shawne would be the only guy on the roster with a police file. There will no longer be a culture of broads, bullets and blunts, and maybe Shawne will decide to play basketball for a living.
I like your sig, Putty.

JayRedd
06-30-2008, 11:16 AM
He's only 22 years old.

Then that makes two guys we've figured out are worthless by that age.

Alpolloloco
06-30-2008, 11:17 AM
I know his official height is 6"9 but I read somewhere he made a growth spurt and his actual height is now 6"11.

That would make him big enough to man the PF spot, he only needs to put on a little extra weight.

Let's see if he can play PF in the summer league and if he can I wouldn't mind keeping him on our team.

LoneGranger33
06-30-2008, 11:19 AM
Then that makes two guys we've figured out are worthless by that age.

I was only 20 when I first joined PD; what took you so long?

JayRedd
06-30-2008, 11:20 AM
I said "we."

LoneGranger33
06-30-2008, 11:21 AM
Can we at least get a poll attached to this thread to gauge PD's interest in keeping or dropping Shawne?
JayRedd, you can die young sir.

Naptown_Seth
06-30-2008, 11:58 AM
:amen:

Unless Larry knows something personally about Shawne that we don't, he's getting a lot of unfair flack. Probably because of all of his law-defiant predecessors.
I also agree. Maybe there is something and if so it needs to be addressed. But of the stuff we know about who cares. He's young, the team needs to show leadership for him to gravitate to, and he's got ace talent at the SF/small PF position. To me he's a pretty nice backup to Danny and at times works well with him. The main issue Danny-Shawne pairings had last year was they both played green and made a lot of mental mistakes. As they mature that goes away.

Ultimately I still strongly suggest that you move Dun while his value is up so that you can get SGs into the roster that are more traditional in size, speed and defensive ability at the 2. Dun would be much better at the team's SF and you've penciled in Danny there. Dun's contract is not the bench SF's contract. That's why you pay Shawne a lot less.

Naptown_Seth
06-30-2008, 12:03 PM
Can we at least get a poll attached to this thread to gauge PD's interest in keeping or dropping LG33?
Fixed.

Look, 22 is just the cutoff date. You were on the tentative list right from the start but the Sunshiners kept saying "give 'em till 22, he's gonna turn it around". This puts you on a list with Hulk, Bender and several other "disappointments".

Don't fight that offended feeling. Keep it deep in your heart and then vote your conscious next year for Most Offensive Poster.

Naptown_Seth
06-30-2008, 12:05 PM
How in the world would Larry know something that we don't????


;)
-Bball
nom'd
brilliant

ChicagoJ
06-30-2008, 12:34 PM
Whatever.

He's not that good.

That sums it up.

esabyrn333
06-30-2008, 12:40 PM
Keep him or ditch him

LoneGranger33
06-30-2008, 12:44 PM
At least get rid of Marquis and Tinsley first.

esabyrn333
06-30-2008, 12:45 PM
We can merge this with the other thread but I really wanted to see how everyone felt on PD.

Personally I would keep him I think he could be our future at PF. The new team make-up will help him greatly.

esabyrn333
06-30-2008, 12:46 PM
At least get rid of Marquis and Tinsley first.

Those are the 2 guys I want to see gone also. Even with Marquis's contract I still say move him or cut him.

Putnam
06-30-2008, 12:48 PM
Keep him.
Supervise him.
Make him a player.

ChicagoJ
06-30-2008, 12:49 PM
We can merge this with the other thread but I really wanted to see how everyone felt on PD.

Personally I would keep him I think he could be our future at PF. The new team make-up will help him greatly.

Done.

esabyrn333
06-30-2008, 12:50 PM
Done.

Thanks

ChicagoJ
06-30-2008, 12:53 PM
Keep him.
Supervise him.
Make him a player.

With all due respect, that's supposed to happen in the NCAA. This is the NBA.

Oh yeah, he went to Memphis. (That's my #1 issue with him - that Calipari did him an injustice with that mockery of a college program that he runs and that he's not prepared this.)

If Bird is gravitating toward maturity (and I don't see many immature champions in league history), then this is the exact type of nonsense that the Pacers don't have time for.

Do you want them to develop young men or have a professional basketball team? If I wanted to watch young student-athletes develop, I wouldn't even watch D1 basketball, I'd watch D3/ NAIA.

JayRedd
06-30-2008, 12:57 PM
Where's the "Don't Care" option?

LAPacer
06-30-2008, 12:58 PM
Agreed. Get rid of Tins first. Give Shawne a chance or use him as bait to get Tinsley out.

Half the dunks in this video is by Shawne

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQigLOPZbDM

Rajah Brown
06-30-2008, 01:01 PM
Whatevah...or not.

The Unknown
06-30-2008, 01:03 PM
No point in getting rid of him now, unless we get a good offer for him. With J.O. gone, Harrison going, and Tinsley likely going as well, Shawne deserves another chance.

SoupIsGood
06-30-2008, 01:06 PM
I hope we get rid of him. He's not very good, he's stupid, and he's not a 4.

Goodbye, Shawne. Maybe we can trade him for Rondo.

ChicagoJ
06-30-2008, 01:14 PM
[snip] he's stupid...

I know this is 100% politically incorrect and probably outside of PD's "good taste" boundaries.

But it also seems to be 100% true.

Now, one could always have said the same thing about Larry Bird as a player. He wasn't exactly on a acedmic scholarship at Indiana State. But he had a court awareness and other intangibles that covered up for his reducted capacity for intellectual skills (is that better, PC police?)

Shawne seems to be relying 80% on athleticism and 20% on skills/ fundamentals. If his jumper isn't falling, he doesn't seem to offer anything else.

Tom White
06-30-2008, 01:15 PM
No point in getting rid of him now, unless we get a good offer for him. With J.O. gone, Harrison going, and Tinsley likely going as well, Shawne deserves another chance.

Why should those other players being here or not effect whether the Pacers keep Williams?

They were not with him when he got into trouble. They did not tell him to befriend an accused gunman, or advise him to loan his vehicle to the guy, or even allow the guy into his home.

I don't see the connection.

Anthem
06-30-2008, 01:23 PM
I know his official height is 6"9 but I read somewhere he made a growth spurt and his actual height is now 6"11.
Got a link for that? I hadn't heard anything like that.

Anthem
06-30-2008, 01:30 PM
Shawne seems to be relying 80% on athleticism and 20% on skills/ fundamentals. If his jumper isn't falling, he doesn't seem to offer anything else.
I have two problems with this, Jay.

First of all, your 80/20 split doesn't make any sense, especially given your second line. A solid jumper is skill and fundamentals. It's not the kind of thing you get just because you're athletic.

Second, he's probably the best we have at taking guys off the dribble from the wing. That's a big thing to offer when the jumpshot's not falling.

I'm not opposed to moving the guy, but we don't need to give him away.

Bball
06-30-2008, 01:48 PM
Something about Shawne that I don't quite know what the answer is but last season he went from looking like he had a clue on the court to looking lost.

-Bball

duke dynamite
06-30-2008, 02:13 PM
I have two problems with this, Jay.

First of all, your 80/20 split doesn't make any sense, especially given your second line. A solid jumper is skill and fundamentals. It's not the kind of thing you get just because you're athletic.

Second, he's probably the best we have at taking guys off the dribble from the wing. That's a big thing to offer when the jumpshot's not falling.

I'm not opposed to moving the guy, but we don't need to give him away.
I said that he should go. I just don't feel like this team is going to help him get better. I do like Shawne, but he can flourish elsewhere.

And Anthem is right, we have to get something good out of him. We can't just keep a clearance bin at Home Court. Tinsley's fat butt takes up the whole thing anyway.

Justin Tyme
06-30-2008, 02:17 PM
With all due respect, that's supposed to happen in the NCAA. This is the NBA.

Oh yeah, he went to Memphis. (That's my #1 issue with him - that Calipari did him an injustice with that mockery of a college program that he runs and that he's not prepared this.)

If Bird is gravitating toward maturity (and I don't see many immature champions in league history), then this is the exact type of nonsense that the Pacers don't have time for.

Do you want them to develop young men or have a professional basketball team? If I wanted to watch young student-athletes develop, I wouldn't even watch D1 basketball, I'd watch D3/ NAIA.


Well said!

JayRedd
06-30-2008, 02:27 PM
(and I don't see many immature champions in league history)

Just talked to Kobe.

He said that unless ChicagoJ gives him his due recognition, he is taking his ball and going home.

The Unknown
06-30-2008, 03:04 PM
Why should those other players being here or not effect whether the Pacers keep Williams?

They were not with him when he got into trouble. They did not tell him to befriend an accused gunman, or advise him to loan his vehicle to the guy, or even allow the guy into his home.

I don't see the connection.


The point is, we've got rid of or are seemingly getting rid of the majority of players with baggage. J.O., Hulk, and no way Tinsley will be back. The culture of the team, and it's image, has improved enough to where we can afford to give a multi-talented 22 year old a second chance.

ABADays
06-30-2008, 04:14 PM
He should be sent home to watch his house.

ChicagoJ
06-30-2008, 04:40 PM
I have two problems with this, Jay.

First of all, your 80/20 split doesn't make any sense, especially given your second line. A solid jumper is skill and fundamentals. It's not the kind of thing you get just because you're athletic.

Second, he's probably the best we have at taking guys off the dribble from the wing. That's a big thing to offer when the jumpshot's not falling.

I'm not opposed to moving the guy, but we don't need to give him away.

Admittedly, I watched less than ten Pacers games this season, so my analysis of a young player should be taken with a grain of salt. When I've seen him - especially in person - all I saw was a jumper and nothing else. The only time I've ever heard of him driving around somebody he didn't have a license to be behind the wheel.

And yes, quick guys that can jump out of the gym don't necessarily have a good jumper. What I've seen is that Shawne can elevate nicely on his jumper - I was attributing that to athleticism. Sorry for confusion.

Trader Joe
06-30-2008, 04:41 PM
Just talked to Kobe.

He said that unless ChicagoJ gives him his due recognition, he is taking his
ball and going home.

Shaq called too.
He thought for sure his "Kobe tell me how my *** tastes" would get him the title of an immature champion.

ChicagoJ
06-30-2008, 04:42 PM
Just talked to Kobe.

He said that unless ChicagoJ gives him his due recognition, he is taking his ball and going home.

But I did. I called Shaq, Horry, Fisher, Rice and Harper the champions. :tongue:

ChicagoJ
06-30-2008, 04:44 PM
And Anthem is right, we have to get something good out of him.

I'll take a mid-to-late first rounder for the 2009 draft to be used on somebody with professionalism and maturity.

Trader Joe
06-30-2008, 04:44 PM
But I did. I called Shaq, Horry, Fisher, Rice and Harper the champions. :tongue:

Shaq called again. He's still very upset.
You better watch out or he'll be asking you to tell him how his *** tastes.

Young
06-30-2008, 05:13 PM
Likely keep him.

He has more value to us then to other teams. I'm sure we can trade him but not for anyone very good.

As some have said if you can add him to a deal and get something good then go for it but in all likely hood we keep Shawne. We need his offense. He gives us more than just jump shots.

ChicagoJ
06-30-2008, 05:28 PM
Shaq called again. He's still very upset.
You better watch out or he'll be asking you to tell him how his *** tastes.

No worries, I've got a secret nonviolent weapon for dealing with Shaq, if I ever need to.

The Unknown
06-30-2008, 05:40 PM
Shawne Williams to New Jersey for Sean Williams? The Nets have Yi and Lopez up front, they could be interested.

JayRedd
06-30-2008, 05:48 PM
No worries, I've got a secret nonviolent weapon for dealing with Shaq, if I ever need to.

It's only fair to warn you: He knows Shaq Fu.

Kid Minneapolis
06-30-2008, 05:50 PM
If I, personally, was running a multi-million-dollar operation, and I'm paying you a crap-ton of money, I better not have to "supervise" you. This isn't a daycare. And therein lies my biggest problem with Williams.

And I don't think he's a natural 4.

He has a LONG way to go to show me he's worth a spit. He makes more money in a night than I do all year. Trouble with the law... game full of holes... I don't care if you're talented if it translates into nothing.

I seriously *hope* he proves me wrong, but I get the feeling he won't.

Bball
06-30-2008, 05:52 PM
The only time I've ever heard of him driving around somebody he didn't have a license to be behind the wheel.



I just want to give you props for this. When a man rings up a zinger as good as this it really deserves a mention.

:applaud:

-Bball

Justin Tyme
06-30-2008, 06:13 PM
The point is, we've got rid of or are seemingly getting rid of the majority of players with baggage. J.O., Hulk, and no way Tinsley will be back. The culture of the team, and it's image, has improved enough to where we can afford to give a multi-talented 22 year old a second chance.

NO the Pacers can't afford to give Shawne a 2nd chance. It's ZERO TOLERANCE. Bird and the Pacers organization have worked too hard for Shawne to make a PR mistake... again. If it happens the average person will say "what did you expect from the Pacers. They have all those bad guys, thugs, etc on their team."

The problem isn't his fellow players who are causing Shawne to have problems, but his circle of friends. If he can't/won't change that circle, then he has no place as Pacer. He needs to go now b4 there is another problem.

Can the Simons take anymore hits to the image of the Pacers? The Pacers are a $300-400 mil franchise, and they can't afford anymore player problems. They are in a small market in Indiana. That says it all!

It's easy to be forgiving at someone elses expense... the Simons and the Pacers future. How many Pacer fans forgave Artest? How did that work out? How many chances does Shawne get to cause more possible problems?

Shawne's isn't an Allstar type player that a team can afford to give a 2nd chance. In fact he's not proved anything yet, all he's shown is he has some "potential." He needs to be moved ASAP b4 there is anymore incidents. JMOAA

LoneGranger33
06-30-2008, 06:36 PM
I think some of y'all need to go back and read the story about Shawne and the murderer before you decide to crucify him.

McKeyFan
06-30-2008, 10:42 PM
My inclination is to get rid of the troublemakers.

But I say give Shawne one more chance. I like his game. He's very athletic, he has sense and savvy on the court, he has potential to be good defensively (Harter called him our second best defender), and he has been good a few times in the clutch.

He is young, and still has time to develop some better moves. He seems to me like the type who could.

All this, of course, only if Bird has a hope that he has sworn off stupidity and is working on his game. If not, ship him out.

Anthem
06-30-2008, 10:52 PM
I'll take a mid-to-late first rounder for the 2009 draft to be used on somebody with professionalism and maturity.
Mid-to-late lotto and I'd be fine with that. A 20-something pick's not worth it.

Anthem
06-30-2008, 10:53 PM
I think some of y'all need to go back and read the story about Shawne and the murderer before you decide to crucify him.
Got a link? I never did hear how that ended.

The Jumpshot Still Money
06-30-2008, 10:56 PM
trade him away and watch him flourish

imawhat
06-30-2008, 11:06 PM
Where's the "Don't Care" option?

Right next to the "I Care Why There Isn't A Don't Care Option" option.

At this point he's low risk/high reward. He has a small contract, for one, and for two, he has plenty of depth in front of him for the present.

Let's see if he can mature first. He looks better than any free agent or player we can realistically draft at PF (yes, he can play power forward better than anyone on the team, especially defensively) for the next couple of years.

If he matures, we have one hell of a lineup. If he doesn't, it won't be hard to a) move him or b) buy him out.

Anthem
06-30-2008, 11:08 PM
yes, he can play power forward better than anyone on the team, especially defensively
As Troy Murphy's primary antagonist, it hurts me to post this.

While Shawne was WAY better than Troy early in the year, Troy's late-season production was consistently better than anything Shawne gave us.***







*** Speaking of offense only.

LoneGranger33
06-30-2008, 11:13 PM
I think I was the best Murphy detractor (and the earliest!), Anthem, so stop taking the credit.


After the Marquis Daniels fiasco of 2006, 2007, and 2008, however, I'm proud to say that Troy Murphy is no longer my least-liked Pacer. Indeed, I actually like the Garden State warrior now.

JayRedd
06-30-2008, 11:14 PM
Zach Braff?

imawhat
06-30-2008, 11:15 PM
As Troy Murphy's primary antagonist, it hurts me to post this.

While Shawne was WAY better than Troy early in the year, Troy's late-season production was consistently better than anything Shawne gave us.***







*** Speaking of offense only.


I should clarify my statement. I think he has *potential* to play PF better than anyone on the team, especially defensively. Troy improved remarkably to end the season.

Infinite MAN_force
06-30-2008, 11:38 PM
As someone pointed out. He is truly Low risk/high reward... and you always keep that guy.

If there is another incident? Bird makes an example out of him by immediatly trading or cutting him, along with some "tough" talk about how this kind of behavior won't be tolerated. He is on a rookie contract that amounts to peanuts. That should satisfy the angry mob.

In both shawne incidents the worst thing he did was drive without a license.

Most of the trouble has been the crowd around him. Eddie White told a story on the radio about how polite of a kid he was when he ran into him one day. I'm willing to give him a chance.

He is 22. He has two strikes. Use baseball rules. He has one more chance.

Infinite MAN_force
06-30-2008, 11:42 PM
On the subject of height, I remember looking at him standing next to Troy Murphy at one of the games and it looking like they were the same height. So I find the growth spurt story believable.

If he puts on some weight there is no reason he can't be a PF. Obrien likes a face up PF anyway, especially one that can shoot threes. Would really space the court for Hibbert well. He played the 4 in college after all.

Evan_The_Dude
06-30-2008, 11:59 PM
It's not low risk high reward. The culture of the team is changing. News about that is spreading fast, and there's excitement in Pacerland again. What do you think happens if Shawne gets into another incident? It's going to go back to the same ****** different day attitude that a lot of the casual fans (not us die hards) have. If Shawne gets in trouble, it won't be viewed by the casual fan as Shawne getting in trouble. It's going to be viewed by the casual fan as there still being a bunch of thu.. (not going to finish because I hate that word) on the team. That's unfair, but that's reality.

That said, the only way Bird should allow Shawne to remain is if he is 150% sure, or 200% sure that Shawne has his trouble in his past and is focused on a bright and trouble free future. I am a fan of Shawne, and I believe that now with the pieces we have around him we'd be ok with keeping him. But I'm tired of hearing negative talk when it comes to the Pacers. If Shawne is going to have people talking negative then he needs to be gone. If Shawne has his ****** together then he should stay. He's a tremendous talent and if focused I believe he can have a breakout year. His skill set is arguably more polished than that of Danny Grangers, but a lot of people on here including myself would love to see Shawne on the court next to Danny.

I voted to keep Shawne because I think as of right now he has more potential than anyone on our current roster. But I'm not falling in love with talent. If the character isn't there then I without a second thought retract my vote.

If Larry knows more than we do and there's more of a story to Shawne than we know (and if it's a bad story), then we need to chuck him the deuces and move on.

imawhat
07-01-2008, 12:16 AM
It's not low risk high reward. The culture of the team is changing. News about that is spreading fast, and there's excitement in Pacerland again. What do you think happens if Shawne gets into another incident?

I'm sure Bird has made it clear what is expected out of him. I'd give him one incident (no matter how minor) and he's gone. He can't even afford putting himself in that position.

avoidingtheclowns
07-01-2008, 10:39 AM
we should shop him but it wouldn't be terrible if he was on the roster next season. at $1.6mil it really is low-risk to keep him. he was 'involved' with two off-court incidents both of which were fairly minor in the grand scheme of things. he didn't assault anyone like tinsley and quis, he was only convicted of driving without a license (and missing the court date) and then the other happened at his house while he was on the bench at conseco during a game. had these happened outside of Tinsley or SJax or the brawl, not nearly as many would care. he is essentially a $1.6mil expiring contract.

sure try shopping him because as JayRedd so eloquently stated hes just not the good right now. but hes young and teams might still be interested because of his potential: the Wizards could use a cheap young wing backup at the 3 and MTO would approve. <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/ /><st1:State w:st=Utah</st1:State> certainly needs an athletic wing to bring off the bench. <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pPhoenix</ST1:p</st1:City> needs young wings that are cheap with 3pt range. there are options. <O:p</O:p

ChicagoJ
07-01-2008, 10:47 AM
Mid-to-late lotto and I'd be fine with that. A 20-something pick's not worth it.

He was a reach at #17 in a not-great draft. You think you could get a top-ten or a lottery pick for him? I think you're dreaming.

I'd take anything between #15 and #25.

:twocents:

avoidingtheclowns
07-01-2008, 10:57 AM
It's not low risk high reward. The culture of the team is changing. News about that is spreading fast, and there's excitement in Pacerland again. What do you think happens if Shawne gets into another incident? It's going to go back to the same ****** different day attitude that a lot of the casual fans (not us die hards) have. If Shawne gets in trouble, it won't be viewed by the casual fan as Shawne getting in trouble. It's going to be viewed by the casual fan as there still being a bunch of thu.. (not going to finish because I hate that word) on the team. That's unfair, but that's reality.

i don't think you can change the culture of the team or the perception of the team overnight and i don't think that getting rid of shawne does any more to improve that. until the pacers start winning and people actually pay attention to the team and realize it won't make a difference where shawne williams plays.

take portland: did anyone look at the team last year or the year before (when randolph was still on the roster) and feel they were still the jailblazers? no. they got rid of randolph but they still had darius miles (who to my knowledge is still symbolic of the jailblazers though he's never been in legal trouble - just a fight with mo cheeks.) fair or not jermaine was the face of the brawl and the thug label. he is gone and jamaal is on his way out one way or another. fans for the next season are still going to refer to pacers as thugs - there is no way to prevent that. what the team is building for is the end of this season and the seasons to follow.

people will start paying attention when the team starts winning again. they'll realize we have a new face of the franchise in danny granger and that our roster is fairly unthugged with dunleavy, maceo, murphy,foster, diener and hopefully they'll be able to say the same about brandon rush, roy hibbert, rasho, tj, jarret jack and mcbob.

but shawne williams being on the team in november won't change anything. so yeah, its low-risk.

CapnBruisin
07-01-2008, 11:05 AM
On the subject of height, I remember looking at him standing next to Troy Murphy at one of the games and it looking like they were the same height. So I find the growth spurt story believable.

If he puts on some weight there is no reason he can't be a PF. Obrien likes a face up PF anyway, especially one that can shoot threes. Would really space the court for Hibbert well. He played the 4 in college after all.

And if the growth spurt story is true then you have to give him some slack with what he did on the court. I would thinking after growing another 2 inches it would take some time adjusting to your new body.

Besides if Shawn Williams was 6'11" before we drafted him no way he would have lasted until out pick that year. So we got a bargain.

Of course this could all be not true and I just wasted 5 minutes of my life.

count55
07-01-2008, 11:27 AM
Look, if we could get Carl Landry in a sign-and-trade (doubtful, perhaps very doubtful), I'd move Shawne. If we could toss him in to get somebody to take Jamaal without getting too big of a turd back, I'd move Shawne.

Otherwise, I have no problem giving him another shot. I'm still unclear as to how culpable he is for the situation this spring with the fugitive, and I think what he did last summer was stupid, but little more than that.

As atc is saying...we don't owe him much, so we can easily boot him if he ****s up again. I look at it like this: If Tinsley's on the roster in training camp, the summer was a waste. If Shawne is on the roster, it doesn't mean anything one way or the other.

SoupIsGood
07-01-2008, 11:33 AM
I just googled and couldn't find anything about Shawne having a growth spurt.

I will say though that if he can cut it at PF, then he's worth keeping around. I don't tend to think he'd be very good at all there, but, hey? :shrug:

Justin Tyme
07-01-2008, 12:04 PM
I just hope for the Simons, the Pacers franchise, and Bird's sake that Shawne doesn't create an incident, no matter how minor, that makes the media!

I just hope and pray the same thing about Tinsley! The Pacers just can't afford any more negative PR from another player. If it happens, you can flush everything positive the Pacers have done down the toilet.

naptownmenace
07-01-2008, 01:19 PM
I agree with your notion that Larry's comment was more of a motivation tool. SW gets another chance, unless he's packaged for another proven player. SW has a seriously, beautiful upside. SW's body should be maturing, he just turned 22 in February. If he will ever play the 4, he'll show it this year. I keep hearing talk about acquiring Shawn Marion, when we have a young 6'9" version. The problem is whether or not JOb is willing to play SW at the 4. When we went small late last season with SW at the 4, it was fun to watch.



I think that Shawn could play PF in Obie's system, similar to how he used Eric Williams and Antoine Walker in Boston at that position. I still think he'll be coming off the bench but will have the opportunity to play there.

He had several games where he looked unstoppable sandwiched in between games where he looked lost out there. He's young, athletic, and can shoot. He should at least get another chance to prove himself.

Anthem
07-01-2008, 02:39 PM
He was a reach at #17 in a not-great draft. You think you could get a top-ten or a lottery pick for him? I think you're dreaming.
Question is whether his value has gone up or down in the meantime. Plenty of guys that year have showed that they're not NBA material. Shawne clearly is.

ChicagoJ
07-01-2008, 06:27 PM
Clearly?

I haven't seen that.

He's a bench player on a bad team.

Which playoff team from either conference would he even crack the rotation of?

In a random order:

Washington? Maybe
Cleveland? Probably not
Dallas? No
New Orleans? No
Phoenix? No
San Antonio? No
Toronto? I doubt it, or he would have been thrown into that deal I think
Orlando? Maybe, they aren't deep up front
Philly? Probably not
Detroit? No
Denver? Maybe
Lakers? Maybe
Atlanta? No - but I'd love to take one of their young forwards for him!
Boston? No

I don't know that his value has gone down, but it hasn't gone up. That's why I said mid-to-late first round originally.

Anthem
07-01-2008, 07:22 PM
Clearly?

I haven't seen that.

He's a bench player on a bad team.
He's not a finished product yet, but he's getting there.

This should be a breakout year for him.

mike_D
07-01-2008, 07:33 PM
It's not low risk high reward. The culture of the team is changing. News about that is spreading fast, and there's excitement in Pacerland again. What do you think happens if Shawne gets into another incident? It's going to go back to the same ****** different day attitude that a lot of the casual fans (not us die hards) have. If Shawne gets in trouble, it won't be viewed by the casual fan as Shawne getting in trouble. It's going to be viewed by the casual fan as there still being a bunch of thu.. (not going to finish because I hate that word) on the team. That's unfair, but that's reality.

That said, the only way Bird should allow Shawne to remain is if he is 150% sure, or 200% sure that Shawne has his trouble in his past and is focused on a bright and trouble free future. I am a fan of Shawne, and I believe that now with the pieces we have around him we'd be ok with keeping him. But I'm tired of hearing negative talk when it comes to the Pacers. If Shawne is going to have people talking negative then he needs to be gone. If Shawne has his ****** together then he should stay. He's a tremendous talent and if focused I believe he can have a breakout year. His skill set is arguably more polished than that of Danny Grangers, but a lot of people on here including myself would love to see Shawne on the court next to Danny.

I voted to keep Shawne because I think as of right now he has more potential than anyone on our current roster. But I'm not falling in love with talent. If the character isn't there then I without a second thought retract my vote.

If Larry knows more than we do and there's more of a story to Shawne than we know (and if it's a bad story), then we need to chuck him the deuces and move on.

I would love to have a whole team filled with tons of talent and where all of them are angels but that is not the reality of the NBA. Go down every teams roster even the sucessful teams and you'll find a knucklehead or two on the roster. The problem with the Pacers the past 4-5 years is most of there roster was filled with knuckleheads and a couple of cancers. Bird has cleaned house and in my opinion it will be complete once Tinsley and Daniels are gone. Can a team with a great locker room and great on the court chemistry deal with one or two knuckle heads on a team. I think so.


I'm willing to give Shawn Williams one final chance I want to see how he reacts with a bunch of high character guys, and the second reason is he just way to talented to give up on without really knowing what we have. I think he has tremendous offensive talent and if we give him up and get a stopgap player who is not really part of our future and Williams turns into a star averaging 20pts 8bds and 4assists a game we are all going to regret it. We keep talking about who on this team can create there own shot outside of Ford and Granger well this kid can and I wouldn't be surprised if he plays a major role off the bench subbing at the 3/4 position and averages 13pts and 6-7bds a game off the bench. I think it is very risky giving up on him now considering how little we will get for him.

obnoxiousmodesty
07-03-2008, 04:38 PM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080703/SPORTS04/80703048/1004/SPORTS


Pacers' Williams accepts Bird's criticism
By Jeff Rabjohns
jeff.rabjohns@indystar.com

Shawne Williams said he wants to remain a Pacer and harbors no hard feelings toward Larry Bird after the team president's recent strong comments about him.

Bird said June 24 that the Pacers would trade Williams if they could get enough in return, adding that if the second-year forward remained with the team he would be on "very thin ice."

"I just hope the thin ice don't break," Williams said this afternoon after the first workout of the Pacers rookie and free agent camp. "I'm going to do everything in my power to keep it thin and try to thicken it up a little bit."

In February, a man wanted on a murder charge in Memphis, Tenn., was arrested after leaving Williams' home in a vehicle registered to Williams. The same person was with Williams when the Pacer was stopped for driving without a license on Sept. 11, 2007. The man, Gary Ian Bohannon, was found guilty of marijuana possession from that traffic stop.

Williams, who played college basketball at Memphis, said he understood Bird's comments.

"He's got a job to do, and I've got a job to do. I didn't lose no respect for Larry," Williams said. "He's just doing his job. And he's right."

LoneGranger33
07-03-2008, 04:41 PM
Good for you Shawne.

duke dynamite
07-03-2008, 04:53 PM
Yep.

esabyrn333
07-03-2008, 05:28 PM
I really hope we hold on to this guy...

I truly believe by the all-star break this year Shawne is going to be really impressing everyone.

I would love to get a true measurement on how tall Shawne is and what his weight is wright now.

The guy is young hell Shawne is younger than Brandon Rush and has Hibbert by 4 months. Every kid is going to do stupid stuff as they grow up. God knows I did some people get caught, some don't. I can only imagine how hard it is to adjust and grow as a person when you become a millonarie and quite famous to go with it.

I was very impressed by this article he handled himself with class and showed matureity. Personally I can't believe they have not brought in a guy like big smooth before this.

Hoop
07-03-2008, 05:50 PM
So far around 68% of the folks on here would like Shawne to have another chance.

I hope it works out for the Pacers and Shawne. The dude has some real NBA talent and is still very young.

Just my opinion looking from the outside, but he seems to be a follower. With high character guys around him and the new no BS policy I think Shawne can turn it around and become a good player and citizen. Then again I'm wrong a lot.

Cobol Sam
07-03-2008, 05:53 PM
Clearly?

I haven't seen that.

He's a bench player on a bad team.

Which playoff team from either conference would he even crack the rotation of?

In a random order:

Washington? Maybe
Cleveland? Probably not
Dallas? No
New Orleans? No
Phoenix? No
San Antonio? No
Toronto? I doubt it, or he would have been thrown into that deal I think
Orlando? Maybe, they aren't deep up front
Philly? Probably not
Detroit? No
Denver? Maybe
Lakers? Maybe
Atlanta? No - but I'd love to take one of their young forwards for him!
Boston? No

I don't know that his value has gone down, but it hasn't gone up. That's why I said mid-to-late first round originally.

Warning: Opinion being portrayed as fact.

I agree with Anthem here, Shawne has shown flashes of being an NBA level talent. This year could be his year.

Ramitt
07-03-2008, 06:39 PM
... If we could toss him in to get somebody to take Jamaal without getting too big of a turd back, I'd move Shawne.

Otherwise, I have no problem giving him another shot. I'm still unclear as to how culpable he is for the situation this spring with the fugitive, and I think what he did last summer was stupid, but little more than that.
....


I keep finding my self agreeing with you a lot. You must be pretty smart and dashingly handsome.

Tom White
07-03-2008, 07:27 PM
The problem isn't his fellow players who are causing Shawne to have problems, but his circle of friends.

Justin, I know (or am pretty sure) you didn't mean it this way, but the way you've worded it still doesn't place the blame where it lies. His friends did not cause him to never get a driver's license, nor did they cause him to miss a court date.

The blame lies with Williams. Whether it be naivity, stupidity, carelessness, not giving a rodent's hind quarter, or whatever else, the blame still comes home to rest with Williams.

In my eyes and mind, a person cannot talk themselves out of something they behaved themselves into. His future behavior is what is important, and, frankly, I don't have faith in him to correct his issues without another episode while he remains a Pacer.

Edited after reading the post with today's Star article:

What I would really love to see, is him saying he has cut the ties he had with people (or person) who were a part of his past problems, and is attempting to do a better job of choosing who he associates with while working on improving himself.

imawhat
07-03-2008, 08:43 PM
I just googled and couldn't find anything about Shawne having a growth spurt.

I will say though that if he can cut it at PF, then he's worth keeping around. I don't tend to think he'd be very good at all there, but, hey? :shrug:


Not that I was keeping track, but he scored on every possession in which he received the ball in the post (not a lot of possessions, 10 to 12, but still). His moves aren't very refined, but he goes up strong and fast (and towards the basket, which was normally a 180 from Jermaine).

I begged all last year for O'Brien to put Shawne in the post. It's the #1 thing I would suggest if I could speak to Jim, because our team needs a serious low post presence more than anything else (offensively).

Shawne would be a senior this year in college. I think we'll know how good he is within the next three years, but there should be significant growth this year IF he's given playing time.

duke dynamite
07-03-2008, 08:51 PM
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c276/tlaurenzana/williams_wagon.jpg

Shade
07-03-2008, 10:30 PM
I would use Shawne to back up both the 3 and 4 spots, assuming no other moves are made this off-season.

Robertmto
07-03-2008, 10:33 PM
I'd be ecstatic if the Wiz got Williams. We need his defense, nd ummmm, well thats all we need from him.

Shade
07-03-2008, 10:34 PM
I'd be ecstatic if the Wiz got Williams. We need his defense, nd ummmm, well thats all we need from him.

Don't you already have JJ for defense? :-p

Robertmto
07-03-2008, 10:57 PM
Don't you already have JJ for defense? :-p

Ouch that hurt. Honestly., heart breaker, thanks for the new mood

Hoop
07-03-2008, 11:04 PM
Don't you already have JJ for defense? :-p
Jared Jeffries?


<object height="344" width="425">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BIhDAjqHRwA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" height="344" width="425"></object>

Robertmto
07-03-2008, 11:07 PM
the floor is OBVIOUSLY doused with water there, and oh yea

xUjRAUbJ9f4

5hufYu-nq8M

Shade
07-04-2008, 01:52 AM
That's not water. It's urine from where JJ pissed his pants. :devil:

jeffg-body
07-04-2008, 02:18 AM
We need to keep the kid, let his body to continue to develop/get arse in the weight room over the next 1-3 years and see if he can be the PF we need in the long run.

count55
07-04-2008, 06:43 AM
Some additional quotes from the Star this morning. (http://http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080704/SPORTS04/807040415/1004/SPORTS)


The 17th pick in the 2006 draft, Williams said he has tried to streamline his life to playing basketball, working out and going home, away from trouble. He said he no longer associates with some people in his life, even relatives.

"It's hard to cut family out because that's your blood, but some things, you've just go to do. You have to make some sacrifices," said Williams, a 6-9 forward who averaged 6.7 points and 2.7 rebounds last season.

"I feel like, if family members and people around you love you and want you to succeed, they'll step back after so much."

Williams said he realizes his off-court situations contributed to the Pacers' public relations problems, but he hopes to be a part of rebuilding the image and production of a team that missed the playoffs the past two years.

Asked how he thinks he's viewed, Williams said, "I don't know. I feel like I still have fans cheering for me when I come out (on the court). I'm not getting booed.

"I feel like I earned the fans back a little bit. I just have to stay out of trouble and keep a clean nose."



I posted this in both threads...still hopeful for this guy.

Tom White
07-04-2008, 09:25 AM
Some additional quotes from the Star this morning. (http://http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080704/SPORTS04/807040415/1004/SPORTS)



I posted this in both threads...still hopeful for this guy.

I replied to this in the other thread, but I'll put if here as well.

Thanks for the quote from the Star article. That is exactly what we need to hear from Williams. If he backs it up, it is a huge step for him.

PacerGuy
07-04-2008, 09:41 AM
We need to keep the kid, let his body to continue to develop/get arse in the weight room over the next 1-3 years and see if he can be the PF we need in the long run.
He kinda reminds me of Bender a bit like this, though he's not as long as JB of course. While it was JB's knees that gave out, the kid was starting to get a real solid frame on him when the end came (:(). I could see SW doing the same. If he could play some 4 down the road, w/ his skill set & some continued low post work in practice/off season, he could add a scary dimention to the players we have.

Justin Tyme
07-04-2008, 10:33 AM
That is exactly what we need to hear from Williams.

Rotfl. What else would you truly expect him to say? My posse and my lifestyle is what my life is about, and I ain't gonna change.

I don't need to hear anything out of Williams. I want to see his play on the court do the talking for him, and he can start in summer league. If he doesn't substantially lead the team in play in the summer league, he's really said nothing. The summer league play is just staters as far as I'm concerned. My personal feeling is nothing is going to change. I surely hope it does for the Pacers sake as well as all the posters who want to give Shawne another chance. I have no problem being proved wrong, so do it Shawne! JMOAA

Tom White
07-04-2008, 10:50 AM
Rotfl. What else would you truly expect him to say? My posse and my lifestyle is what my life is about, and I ain't gonna change.



Which is why I also said - If he backs it up, it is a huge step for him.

Look, I would like to see the guy gone. I think it is a risk for the Pacers to hope that he doesn't do any more damage to their image than is already done.

That being said, if he backs up his words with substance, then it can only be good for him regardless of where he plays. I don't want to see the guy burn in hell. I want to see him right his ship. I'm just not sure the Pacers can afford the PR risk should that ship sink.

Justin Tyme
07-04-2008, 01:40 PM
I'm just not sure the Pacers can afford the PR risk should that ship sink.

I totally agree! That's why I've said all along he needs to go. So he's got potential to be good, he also has the potential to be a bad PR nightmare too. It's not an ez decision for the FO to make, but do they want to constantly be listening to hear the 2nd shoe drop that becomes a PR nightmare?

As I previously said, I hope Shawne gets his act together and understands where his priorities in life are... for his sake and the Pacers sake.

CableKC
07-04-2008, 02:57 PM
Jared Jeffries?


<object height="344" width="425">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BIhDAjqHRwA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" height="344" width="425"></object>
Wow...TJ totally pwning Jared Jeffries. If Ford could do that here in Indy...I would be stoked...

LoneGranger33
07-04-2008, 05:04 PM
That's why we can't trade Jamaal for Jeffries.

PacerGuy
07-04-2008, 05:58 PM
That's why we can't trade Jamaal for Jeffries.There in NOONE who we won't trade JT for - Jefferies included. That is not an endorsement of that move as much as a "JT go Bye-bye" comment.

TheRifleman51
07-05-2008, 02:30 AM
Wow...TJ totally pwning Jared Jeffries. If Ford could do that here in Indy...I would be stoked...


Tj made Jared Jefferies look like he had on ice skayes with no laces

TheRifleman51
07-05-2008, 02:34 AM
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c276/tlaurenzana/williams_wagon.jpg

I'm riding that Bus right with you dog keep Shawn-Will in Indy



Proudly Riding the Shawn Williams Bandwagon

spazzxb
07-05-2008, 05:28 AM
I'm riding that Bus right with you dog keep Shawn-Will in Indy



Proudly Riding the Shawn Williams Bandwagon

I am riding the bus aswell

Anthem
07-05-2008, 09:44 AM
Tj made Jared Jefferies look like he had on ice skayes with no laces
In fairness to JJ (who I don't particularly like), it sure looks like the floor was slick there.

count55
07-05-2008, 09:53 AM
In fairness to JJ (who I don't particularly like), it sure looks like the floor was slick there.

In fairness to JJ, TJ Ford should be able to do that to almost every 6'9" forward in the league, wet floor or not, and the ones he couldn't do it to it would probably be because they were too slow to get crossed up.

Hicks
07-05-2008, 10:57 AM
I'm holding on to a rope attached to the back of the bus while on roller blades.

docpaul
07-05-2008, 11:16 AM
He was a reach at #17 in a not-great draft. You think you could get a top-ten or a lottery pick for him? I think you're dreaming.

I'd take anything between #15 and #25.

:twocents:

That's disputable. Some analysts (ie, Hollinger) thought Williams was one of the best players that year, statistically:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=DraftRater-080622

<table class="tablehead widetable" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="stathead"><td colspan="3">Top-rated wings since 2002</td> </tr> <tr class="colhead" valign="top"> <td>Player</td> <td>Projected Yr. 3 PER</td> <td>Draft Year</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" valign="top"> <td>Dwyane Wade (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3708) </td> <td>17.81</td> <td> 2003</td> </tr> <tr class="evenrow" valign="top"> <td>Carmelo Anthony (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3706) </td> <td>17.38</td> <td>2003</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" valign="top"> <td>Luol Deng (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3824) </td> <td>16.71</td> <td>2004</td> </tr> <tr class="evenrow" valign="top"> <td>Rudy Gay (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=4136) </td> <td>16.21</td> <td>2006</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" valign="top"> <td>Julian Wright (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=4291) </td> <td>15.86</td> <td>2007</td> </tr> <tr class="evenrow" valign="top"> <td>Rashad McCants (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3940) </td> <td>15.41 </td> <td>2005</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" valign="top"> <td>Andre Iguodala (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3826) </td> <td> 15.16 </td> <td>2004</td> </tr> <tr class="evenrow" valign="top"> <td>Danny Granger (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3943) </td> <td>14.55</td> <td> 2005</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" valign="top"> <td>Shawne Williams (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=4145) </td> <td>14.37</td> <td>2006</td> </tr> <tr class="evenrow" valign="top"> <td>Josh Howard (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3732) </td> <td>14.31 </td> <td>2003</td></tr></tbody></table>
If you were to believe these statistics, Williams has just as much potential as Granger. Perhaps not as much of a "reach" as you would have thought at the time.

LoneGranger33
07-05-2008, 11:44 AM
According to Hollinger, though, it seems Rashad McCants is not worthless, which, as we all know, is contrary to fact.

duke dynamite
07-05-2008, 12:50 PM
I'm holding on to a rope attached to the back of the bus while on roller blades.

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/fox_searchlight/napoleon_dynamite/_group_photos/aaron_ruell8.jpg