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Shade
06-27-2008, 01:24 PM
PG - Ford/Jack/Diener/Tinsley
SG - Dunleavy/Rush/Quis/Graham
SF - Granger/Williams

We're pretty well set here. But then you look at this:

PF - Murphy/Foster/Baston/McRoberts
C - Nesterovic/Hibbert

And want to cry.

So, how do we fix it?

Well, we have Quis's expiring contract. We may also look to trade Dun if we decide to re-sign the "other" Rush. What kinds of deals do you see out there for the Pacers to bolster their front court?

2minutes twowa
06-27-2008, 01:31 PM
I know everybody hates him, but if Harrison can be signed on the cheap, that would give us 3 legit 7 footers. But with Maceo and McRoberts added to that list, I don't see any reason that you have to make a move right away. See how things work, then address it at the trade deadline.

LG33
06-27-2008, 01:33 PM
Udonis for Marquis?

Free agency next season doesn't look too good. Maybe in 2010?

I wouldn't say everybody, twowa...

mrknowname
06-27-2008, 01:34 PM
well wasn't it reported we had interest in marion???? not sure we have the pieces to get it done though

al harrington would be a nice pf in JOB's system

andrei kirilenko maybe???

chris wilcox??

none of those guys excite me (except marion)

JayRedd
06-27-2008, 01:35 PM
I know everybody hates him, but if Harrison can be signed on the cheap, that would give us 3 legit 7 footers.


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</OBJECT><NOSCRIPT minmax_bound="true"></NOSCRIPT> Audio Help (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/audio.html)/adj., n. lɪˈdʒɪthttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngəhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngmɪt; v. lɪˈdʒɪthttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngəˌmeɪt/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[adj., n. li-jit-uh-mit; v. li-jit-uh-meyt]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciationadjective, verb, -mat·ed, -mat·ing, noun </P>–adjective

<TABLE class=luna-Ent minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD class=dn vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">2.</TD><TD vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">in accordance with established rules, principles, or standards.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=luna-Ent minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD class=dn vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">6.</TD><TD vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">not spurious or unjustified; genuine: It was a legitimate complaint. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=luna-Ent minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD class=dn vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">7.</TD><TD vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">of the normal or regular type or kind. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=luna-Ent minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD class=dn vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">14.</TD><TD vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">a person who is established as being legitimate. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Arcadian
06-27-2008, 01:35 PM
I don't like our front court at all. However, considering that Ike seldom got in and JO was hurt, it can be viewed that we added two front court players.

ChicagoJ
06-27-2008, 01:35 PM
Wait 12 months and draft a future all-star PF.

Coop
06-27-2008, 01:36 PM
I'm staying on the 1 man bandwagon for Brandan Wright. He would be my #1 priority for the rest of the summer. GS really doesn't need him now that they have a less developed clone of him in Anthony Randolph.

Shade
06-27-2008, 01:37 PM
Wait 12 months and draft a future all-star PF.

...and then trade him for who? :-p

ChicagoJ
06-27-2008, 01:40 PM
Speechless...

Unclebuck
06-27-2008, 01:42 PM
Williams if he is here and Granger will be playing a lot of power forward.

Really though, yes we need an upgrade at one of the big spots. You won't win a championship without an allstar at either power forward or center . But we aren't close to winning a championship anyways. So I'm willing to be a little patient in obtaining a big guy.

Really though the only player in last nights draft that would have made a huge difference would have been Beasley

Coop
06-27-2008, 01:45 PM
I see some people saying wait until next years draft. The best two PF's (IMO) next year are both pretty undersized and neither are future all-stars (again IMO). These two being Blake Griffin who is 6'8"-6'9" 240lbs and Patrick Patterson who is 6'8" 220lbs.

The best players in the draft next year ironically play the positions we just addressed (C, PG, and SG).

MyFavMartin
06-27-2008, 01:47 PM
I think Bird is holding out hope that Shawne Williams becomes the PF he projected a couple years ago. This is the only reason why I think he wasn't included in the Bayless trade and we would get back Frye.. though it was probably more the case that Portland wants nothing to do with Shawne.

Lamar Odom, Brandt, AK47, Marion.... the Pacers have a large number of expiring contracts (Foster, Daniels, Baston, Rasho) and an attractive trading piece in Dunleavy... a team like the Clippers or NY may be in need of a PG to take a chance on Tinsley, though I think NY and Memphis should swap David Lee and Kyle Lowry...

Arcadian
06-27-2008, 01:54 PM
I don't expect to get an all star. I'm more concerned about the quality of our depth, having a player who can score in the paint, having a player who can cover others mistakes.

LG33
06-27-2008, 02:00 PM
Tinsley and a second-rounder for Haslem?

PR07
06-27-2008, 02:09 PM
There's 3 guys I like:

Gerald Wallace- Maybe we could trade a package centered around Dunleavy with other players like Foster, Daniels, and Shawne Williams to get him? Don't know if the Bobcats bite, but it's worth a shot.

Kenyon Martin- Physical defensive presence whose best years came in an uptempo system. He has a bad contracts, but we may only have to trade a package like Tinsley+Murphy for him.

Brandan Wright- Not sure where he fits in GS, but I'd at least inquire. Maybe a package of Shawne Wiliiams+Foster? GS probably would want more, but what do we have to lose.

Don't want Haslem. I don't like his character. I haven't heard good things.

Unclebuck
06-27-2008, 02:12 PM
Tinsley and a second-rounder for Haslem?

You can't be serious. No way Miami does that.

MyFavMartin
06-27-2008, 02:16 PM
There's 3 guys I like:

Gerald Wallace- Maybe we could trade a package centered around Dunleavy with other players like Foster, Daniels, and Shawne Williams to get him? Don't know if the Bobcats bite, but it's worth a shot.

Kenyon Martin- Physical defensive presence whose best years came in an uptempo system. He has a bad contracts, but we may only have to trade a package like Tinsley+Murphy for him.

Brandan Wright- Not sure where he fits in GS, but I'd at least inquire. Maybe a package of Shawne Wiliiams+Foster? GS probably would want more, but what do we have to lose.

Don't want Haslem. I don't like his character. I haven't heard good things.

Gerald Wallace is not a PF but a SF.

Kenyon is breaking down and would be JO part II (Now with more attitude!). No thanks.

Brandan Wright is part of GS's future core at PF... There is no way GS gives him up and your proposed trade isn't even close on the salary match requirements. And they dont need Shawne as they've just picked up their SF of the future in Randolph.

Anthem
06-27-2008, 02:18 PM
What do you think the asking price is for Marion?

2minutes twowa
06-27-2008, 02:19 PM
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</OBJECT><NOSCRIPT minmax_bound="true"></NOSCRIPT> Audio Help (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/audio.html)/adj., n. lɪˈdʒɪthttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngəhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngmɪt; v. lɪˈdʒɪthttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngəˌmeɪt/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[adj., n. li-jit-uh-mit; v. li-jit-uh-meyt]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciationadjective, verb, -mat·ed, -mat·ing, noun </P>–adjective

<TABLE class=luna-Ent minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD class=dn vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">2.</TD><TD vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">in accordance with established rules, principles, or standards.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=luna-Ent minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD class=dn vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">6.</TD><TD vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">not spurious or unjustified; genuine: It was a legitimate complaint. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=luna-Ent minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD class=dn vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">7.</TD><TD vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">of the normal or regular type or kind. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=luna-Ent minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD class=dn vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">14.</TD><TD vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">a person who is established as being legitimate. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Your point?

JayRedd
06-27-2008, 02:21 PM
Brandt

I'm on board.

http://content6.flixster.com/question/37/32/66/3732668_std.jpg

allsmiles
06-27-2008, 02:52 PM
What about David Lee? New York reportedly was shopping him before the draft in a deal that would send him to Memphis, but Lee nixed the deal by not agreeing to re-sign with the Grizzlies. We would have to take back Jerome James (2yrs - $12.8 mil) and Lee (2yrs - $3.3 mil) and offer perhaps Daniels (1yr -$6.8 mil). This saves NY about $10 million, doesn't commit us beyond 2 years, and shores up the PF position.

Perhaps we could even take Jared Jeffries off their hands (3yrs - $19.2 mil) and include Tinsley (3yrs - $21 mil) as part of the deal.

purdue101
06-27-2008, 02:54 PM
I really think Shawne could do ok at the 4 if he's playing alongside a big body like Hibbert. Same can be said for Murph.

Here are some deals I came up with anyways.

1.) Shawne for Shelden Williams
2.) Tins & Murph for Kenyon Martin
3.) Tins & Murph for Zach Randolph
4.) Murphy & Shawne for Diaw
5.) Shawne, Foster, & possibly a future pick for Tyrus Thomas & filler.
6.) Shawne for Frye
7.) Dunleavy & Foster for Odom
8.) Foster & Shawne for Wilcox
9.) Dunleavy & Foster for Kirilenko
10.) Murphy for Nene

Mourning
06-27-2008, 03:05 PM
Wait 12 months and draft a future all-star PF.

How many teams will be passing on this miracle guy this time? ;)

LG33
06-27-2008, 03:05 PM
You can't be serious. No way Miami does that.

Why won't you let me dream?

Mourning
06-27-2008, 03:05 PM
Your point?

That Harrison is everything BUT legitimate :).

jcouts
06-27-2008, 03:06 PM
The primary needs we're going to have in this system with a PF is a PF who is willing to set solid screens and can make at least an open 15 footer on a consistent basis. For the last several years, Jer-mine has made the PF position in Indy the glory position. With him gone, I think you're going to see a return of that position being used as the dirty work position, with the glory coming from the other 4 positions.

So, that is why I don't like Harrington, Marion or Kirilenko for the job. All three of those guys would gripe and complain about not getting any recognition, like they have the rest of their careers. Haslem would fit the bill. Jeff would fit the bill if he could knock down a 10-15 footer with consistency, or had nary a single post move.

We have Rasho's expiring contract that will more than likely be used to fill that void...be it this year or next year. Personally, I expect Bird to use it this year since we're more likely to get someone to come to Indianapolis via trade than to attract any free agents with our cosmopolitan surroundings and mild, sunny winters...

SoupIsGood
06-27-2008, 03:06 PM
Time to call up Britton Johnsen.

CableKC
06-27-2008, 03:09 PM
I agree with Shade that we need some scoring at the PF spot. It's a scary thought...but Murphy is our best scoring PF now. Our Frontcourt Big Man rotation is made up of 1 PF in Murphy ( sorry, McRoberts doesn't count since I think he's gone ), 2 ( maybe 3 ) SFs that could be considered undersized PFs in Baston, Shawne and Granger, 1 Tweener in Foster and 2 True Centers in Rasho/Hibbert.

I can see that we do not really a true Low-Post scoring threat and agree that this is something that will have to EVENTUALLY be addressed.

But unless we are able to trade Marquis for a decent scoring PF that is cheap ( earning less then 3-4 mil a season ) or we are able to trade Dunleavy for a scoring PF that has a comprable contract...then I would much rather sit and wait it out to see how things work out.

If scoring at the PF spot is going to be a huge issue and weakness that is exposed this season.....I'm guessing that Bird/JO'B will try to give Granger and Shawne at the backup PF spot or run more plays for Hibbert to see if it works out.

If it doesn't, then we shelf the issue until the 2009 offseason and see what we can do to fix the issue via draft or Free Agency.

I'm going to be practical on this and side with UB......we have to be patient when it comes to our Frontcourt needs. Looking at our Financial situation in the 2009-2010 season...when we will have to likely resign Granger, Jack and ( hopefully ) Foster ( a JO'B favorite )....I don't want to make a move for a PF that will limit our ability to resign them. Remember....our rebuilding process is going to take a few years....there is no need to fix everything in a single season.

FrenchConnection
06-27-2008, 03:11 PM
That Harrison is everything BUT legitimate :).

The man might not be a very good basketball player, but he is legitimatly 7 feet tall.

Young
06-27-2008, 03:21 PM
I don't think we need to worry about getting an all star level player here. But we do need some help up front no doubt.

The trade opitions are probably Shawne Williams, Marquis Daniels, and if you really want to go after a bigger name Dunleavy, and Jeff could be in the mix.

I would take a look at either Ryan Gomes or Craig Smith, both Timberwolves free agents. Both are undersized but I think they could get the job done for us at the 4.

Hakim Warrick can play some 4. He can really get up and down the court.

I would have some interest in Boris Diaw. But I don't know that he can play PF for us. He could for Mike D'Antoni but that's different. I think we could get a deal done for him though if we are willing to take on his salary.

There really don't seem to be a lot of opitions to get frontcourt help.

PR07
06-27-2008, 03:28 PM
IF Rashard Lewis and Shawn Marion can start at the 4, I think Gerald Wallace can. He's already a better shotblocker than both. We'd have to truly go uptempo though, much more than last season.

JayRedd
06-27-2008, 03:28 PM
The man might not be a very good basketball player, but he is legitimatly 7 feet tall.

So is Sandy Allen.

CableKC
06-27-2008, 03:29 PM
I would have some interest in Boris Diaw. But I don't know that he can play PF for us. He could for Mike D'Antoni but that's different. I think we could get a deal done for him though if we are willing to take on his salary.

There really don't seem to be a lot of opitions to get frontcourt help.
Sorry...but Diaw would mess our SalaryCap and Financial situation worse then keeping Dunleavy....and in all honesty...he's no answer for anyone other then D'Antoni as a PF.

I would much rather play Dunleavy as our PF then have Diaw.

Tom White
06-27-2008, 03:29 PM
Washington has a couple of big guys that really don't like each other. I wonder if either Etan Thomas or Brendon Heywood could be had in a trade.

Washington may have to move one or the other just for safety's sake.

I understand that neither of these guys are miracle cures, but both have their pluses and both are close to Tinsley's salary. We are not going to get an all-star level player for the guys the Pacers are looking to move.

JayRedd
06-27-2008, 03:30 PM
I would take a look at either Ryan Gomes or Craig Smith, both Timberwolves free agents. Both are undersized but I think they could get the job done for us at the 4.

I'd co-sign on both.

Gomes, especially, eats glass.

Also...BC sucks.

maragin
06-27-2008, 03:30 PM
I want David Lee as our 4.

CableKC
06-27-2008, 03:47 PM
Question for all of you....do you want a low-post scoring PF that scores primarily from the paint ( a la JONeal )?

or

Do you want one that can score from all over ( a la Murphy )?

I am guessing that we will be looking for a Low-Post scoring PF like the Bulls have been doing for a few seasons now.

Jose Slaughter
06-27-2008, 04:07 PM
I know his named was mentioned in jest lastnight during the later portion of the draft, but considering our "current" roster, I'll bring him up here.

Austin Croshere

A seasoned vet that is not a half bad defender, has enough range on his shot to draw defenders out to help unclog the middle & since he is a free agent, might come cheaply.

Plus he fills more than one need. We need help at the 4 on both ends of the floor & I think Cro could be even a bigger help in the locker room.

If we could get him for 2 to 2.5 per I'd say bring him back.

CableKC
06-27-2008, 04:10 PM
EDIT - Jose just beat me to it :lol:

One more thought to fix our Frontcourt and any scoring deficiencies that we may have.

1 ) Buyout McRoberts to free up the roster space.
2 ) Sign Croshere to a vet minimum contract to do his best impersonation of Murphy.

At the very least, this would be a very short term if not cheap "bandaid" fix until next season.

Also....I could have my facts wrong......but doesn't the league ( in some way ) help pay for the signing of veterans to "vet minimum" contracts?

Unclebuck
06-27-2008, 04:20 PM
I know his named was mentioned in jest lastnight during the later portion of the draft, but considering our "current" roster, I'll bring him up here.

Austin Croshere

A seasoned vet that is not a half bad defender, has enough range on his shot to draw defenders out to help unclog the middle & since he is a free agent, might come cheaply.

Plus he fills more than one need. We need help at the 4 on both ends of the floor & I think Cro could be even a bigger help in the locker room.

If we could get him for 2 to 2.5 per I'd say bring him back.

I think Troy Murphy is better than Croshere and they are very similar, so I just don't see any need for Cro

JayRedd
06-27-2008, 04:21 PM
Troy is insanely better than Croshere.

We have no need for that guy or his bald spot.

LG33
06-27-2008, 04:23 PM
I'd co-sign on both.

Gomes, especially, eats glass.

Also...BC sucks.

I didn't realize Ryan Gomes could play power forward. I do, however, tend to agree with JayRedd about his views on British Columbia. Craig Smith seems like a good guy. I mean, it's not like I know the guy personally or anything...

Rajah Brown
06-27-2008, 04:30 PM
What's the hurry ? We're rebuilding. That implies time. This team
won 36 games in a horrific conference. We aren't gonna jump to
50+ next year. And we shouldn't want to even come close.

This team needs at least one more year with as high a draft
position as possible. It may not be fun, but it's reality.

CableKC
06-27-2008, 04:33 PM
I think Troy Murphy is better than Croshere and they are very similar, so I just don't see any need for Cro


Troy is insanely better than Croshere.

We have no need for that guy or his bald spot.
Without making any more moves....I calcluated that we will likely have about $66 mil in contracts in the 2008-2009 season ( not counting whatever we sign Rush and Hibbert to ).

I am sure that there are way better options out there....but given the limited $$$ that we can spend on getting a PF.....what other options do we have?

Going under the assumption that Murphy will be our likely starting PF for the immediate future....anyone that we get in FA IMHO will likely be backing up Murphy.

I don't think that Jose and I are suggesting that Croshere is any fix for the long term....but he can be a really quick and cheap stop-gap solution for this season to fill a need.

Isaac
06-27-2008, 04:49 PM
Don't want Haslem. I don't like his character. I haven't heard good things.

Are you kidding me? He is the glue for Miami and pretty much everytime anybody says anything about him his great character and competitiveness comes up.

Isaac
06-27-2008, 04:52 PM
I want David Lee as our 4.

He would be the perfect fit.

PaceBalls
06-27-2008, 05:00 PM
IF Rashard Lewis and Shawn Marion can start at the 4, I think Gerald Wallace can. He's already a better shotblocker than both. We'd have to truly go uptempo though, much more than last season.

If Rashard Lewis and Shawn Marion can start at the 4, I think Danny Granger and Shawne Williams can.

That would leave Dun at the 3, Brandon at the 2 and Hibbert as our Gigantic 7'2" 285lb Center (wooohooo!)

Mr. Sobchak
06-27-2008, 05:00 PM
I'm on board.

http://content6.flixster.com/question/37/32/66/3732668_std.jpg


This is our concern dude.

Justin Tyme
06-27-2008, 05:11 PM
...and then trade him for who? :-p



Ouch! Someone's still an unhappy camper! BUT I do truly understand.

MyFavMartin
06-27-2008, 05:13 PM
He would be the perfect fit.

he can't shoot.

great energy coming off the bench but nothing more.

maragin
06-27-2008, 05:16 PM
Sonofa...

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/knicks/2008/06/addition-of-danilo-could-be-th.html

June 26, 2008

Addition of Danilo could be the end of David


The selection of Italian forward Danilo Gallinari could mean the end of David Lee’s Knicks career.
I’m hearing that the Knicks could be working on a deal with the Charlotte Bobcats to acquire point guard Raymond Felton for Lee, who played for Bobcats coach Larry Brown.
Coincidentally, the Bobcats selected Texas point guard D.J. Augustin with the ninth overall pick. Charlotte’s second point was French center Alexis Ajinca.
When Mike D’Antoni coached the Phoenix Suns he gave the front office a the thumbs-down to drafting Lee because he felt that Lee wasn’t a good enough shooter.
The Knicks had spoken to the Memphis Grizzlies about trading Lee and Malik Rose before the draft to acquire the fifth pick.



By Frank Isola on June 26, 2008

--------------------------------------------------

I know it's just some guy's rumor, so I don't give it full credence. If the Knicks are looking to move Lee, I would hope Larry fires up "D-dub" on the phone and finds out what it would take.

Edit: The games I've watched, I haven't seen him have shooting problems (55% last year, 81% from the stripe). Of course the stand out one was his performance at the rookie/sophomore game. (14 of 14)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/allstar2007/news/story?id=2768924

ChicagoJ
06-27-2008, 05:24 PM
How many teams will be passing on this miracle guy this time? ;)

Even if we screw up the lottery, we shouldn't be any lower than fourth.

DisplacedKnick
06-27-2008, 05:28 PM
David Lee is definitely available - not sure what it would take but he's "gettable" at the right price.

As for the "he can't shoot" - he shot 55% last year and it wasn't because of his dazzling, overpowering post moves or because all he did was get stick-backs. He shoots very well to 15 feet and fairly well to 20. Doesn't have 3-pt range but his mid-range shot is reliable.

It's on defense where he has the biggest problem. Very much a tweener though he's never played for a defensive coach.

Also, just for kicks, there's a rumor out there that Artest may opt out of his contract by Monday. We'll see - supposedly he sent an e-mail to the Sacto paper. Maybe it's true and maybe it's just Ron being Ron except the brain-mouth disconnect has spread to his keyboard.

Justin Tyme
06-27-2008, 05:29 PM
Washington has a couple of big guys that really don't like each other. I wonder if either Etan Thomas or Brendon Heywood could be had in a trade.

Washington may have to move one or the other just for safety's sake.

I understand that neither of these guys are miracle cures, but both have their pluses and both are close to Tinsley's salary. We are not going to get an all-star level player for the guys the Pacers are looking to move.

They also have Andre Blatche who I like.

Justin Tyme
06-27-2008, 05:34 PM
I'd co-sign on both.

Gomes, especially, eats glass.

Also...BC sucks.


Bird apparently doesn't like Gomes. He passed on him to take that European Allstar Lorbek in 05.

LG33
06-27-2008, 05:35 PM
They also have Andre Blatche who I like.

I think there might be a prostitute problem there.

Justin Tyme
06-27-2008, 05:38 PM
EDIT -


Also....I could have my facts wrong......but doesn't the league ( in some way ) help pay for the signing of veterans to "vet minimum" contracts?

Yep.

PaceBalls
06-27-2008, 05:40 PM
David Lee is definitely available - not sure what it would take but he's "gettable" at the right price.

As for the "he can't shoot" - he shot 55% last year and it wasn't because of his dazzling, overpowering post moves or because all he did was get stick-backs. He shoots very well to 15 feet and fairly well to 20. Doesn't have 3-pt range but his mid-range shot is reliable.

It's on defense where he has the biggest problem. Very much a tweener though he's never played for a defensive coach.

Also, just for kicks, there's a rumor out there that Artest may opt out of his contract by Monday. We'll see - supposedly he sent an e-mail to the Sacto paper. Maybe it's true and maybe it's just Ron being Ron except the brain-mouth disconnect has spread to his keyboard.

I read that too that Ron is going to opt out. Some high points of his brain-mouth-keyboard disconnect was: "I never knew so many teams would be coming after me," he wrote. "All I can say is I made a hundred degree turnaround." (shouldn't that be 180 Ron?) or maybe he just turned 5/9ths of the way around lol

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/013542.html

Pacemaker
06-27-2008, 05:43 PM
I think Bird is holding out hope that Shawne Williams becomes the PF he projected a couple years ago. This is the only reason why I think he wasn't included in the Bayless trade and we would get back Frye.. though it was probably more the case that Portland wants nothing to do with Shawne.

Lamar Odom, Brandt, AK47, Marion.... the Pacers have a large number of expiring contracts (Foster, Daniels, Baston, Rasho) and an attractive trading piece in Dunleavy... a team like the Clippers or NY may be in need of a PG to take a chance on Tinsley, though I think NY and Memphis should swap David Lee and Kyle Lowry...

Brand for real!!!!! Is there a possiblity? !!!! I'd love this!

Justin Tyme
06-27-2008, 05:44 PM
I think there might be a prostitute problem there.


Why, doesn't Indy have any?

Tom White
06-27-2008, 06:16 PM
....but he can be a really quick and cheap stop-gap solution for this season to fill a need.

See, this is where I have to disagree. Croshere's shot has not been consistant for some time now, and in fact I don't think it ever was (at least not over a period of time). I have doubts about him being able to defend quicker front court players, which is one of the areas people already have concerns with Murphy and Hibbert.

I just don't see him being an answer.

Pacemaker
06-27-2008, 06:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpfRL...eature=related
Hibbert looks pretty smart, mature and realiable in this interview with Utah. Some Utah fans even coveted him and thought he should have been a top 3 pick in last year's draft. Im glad we drafted him. He's ready.

d_c
06-27-2008, 06:39 PM
IF Rashard Lewis and Shawn Marion can start at the 4, I think Gerald Wallace can. He's already a better shotblocker than both. We'd have to truly go uptempo though, much more than last season.

After having a couple of concussions, Wallace has said he's pretty much done with playing PF.

http://www.wcnc.com/sports/bobcats/stories/wcnc-031108-mw-bobcatswallace.45c25062.html

d_c
06-27-2008, 06:45 PM
Brandan Wright- Not sure where he fits in GS, but I'd at least inquire. Maybe a package of Shawne Wiliiams+Foster? GS probably would want more, but what do we have to lose.


Brandan Wright is going to be playing 20-25 mins a year next year where. As for how he fits with Anthony Randolph, they're actually very different players and Randolph probably won't be playing much next season.

I really don't think Wright will be traded.

I'm sure the Warriors would be more than willing to do something like Wright/Al Harrington for Elton Brand or maybe some deal where they wind up with Josh Smith, but outside of unlikely scenarios like that, the Warriors aren't trading Wright.

CableKC
06-27-2008, 06:50 PM
See, this is where I have to disagree. Croshere's shot has not been consistant for some time now, and in fact I don't think it ever was (at least not over a period of time). I have doubts about him being able to defend quicker front court players, which is one of the areas people already have concerns with Murphy and Hibbert.

I just don't see him being an answer.
Okay...np....BTW...when I said "quick and cheap"...I wasn't suggesting that he was actually quick enough to keep up with Frontcourt players...I meant that he seemed like a guy that we can easily pick up that is cheap.

I don't mind getting athletic PFs that can possibly give us a double-double...I'm just concerned about their Basketball IQ ( apparently what we need on the offensive/defensive end ) and their potential impact on our Financial situation next season. We can probably get our hands on StroSwift....a super athletic PF that can rebound/block shots/score....but would he fit on our team given the nature of our offense?

I just don't think that there are any real solutions that we can find that would help us while not hurt us ( on the court and financially ) at the same time. I would prefer to either go the really cheap route to simply fill a need for a season ( Croshere ) or just have Granger/Shawne/Foster fill our PF needs for this season and then address this problem next season.

DisplacedKnick
06-27-2008, 07:12 PM
I read that too that Ron is going to opt out. Some high points of his brain-mouth-keyboard disconnect was: "I never knew so many teams would be coming after me," he wrote. "All I can say is I made a hundred degree turnaround." (shouldn't that be 180 Ron?) or maybe he just turned 5/9ths of the way around lol

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/013542.html

Good old Ron - I'm sure there are thousands of Knick fans screaming that we should get him.

I'm equally sure that there is no way, not even in some wierd alternate, bizarro universe, where DW will go anywhere near him again.

Ramitt
06-27-2008, 07:27 PM
It would be funny if he did. Ron would implode in NY.

Noodle
06-27-2008, 07:40 PM
Maybe we won't need to draft another big. We have almost 22 mil coming off the books next year. The Pacers are obviously rebuilding, so I can wait. This is the list of all expiring free-agents for next season.
http://www.arinitout.com/2008/01/nba_trade_bait_expiring_contra.php

JayRedd
06-27-2008, 07:54 PM
It would be funny if he did. Ron would implode in NY.

Foul Monday came over...It was all good.

CableKC
06-27-2008, 08:02 PM
I found this list of 2009 Offseason Free Agents on RealGM:

http://www.realgm.com/src_freeagents/2009/

Mike Bibby Atlanta Unrestricted F.A.
Solomon Jones Atlanta Unrestricted F.A.
Zaza Pachulia Atlanta Unrestricted F.A.
Marvin Williams Atlanta Restricted F.A.
Glen Davis Boston Restricted F.A.
James Posey Boston Unrestricted F.A.
Leon Powe Boston Restricted F.A.
Jermareo Davidson Charlotte Restricted F.A.
Raymond Felton Charlotte Restricted F.A.
Othella Harrington Charlotte Unrestricted F.A.
Sean May Charlotte Restricted F.A.
JamesOn Curry Chicago Restricted F.A.
Drew Gooden Chicago Unrestricted F.A.
Aaron Gray Chicago Restricted F.A.
Lance Allred Cleveland Restricted F.A.
Damon Jones Cleveland Unrestricted F.A.
Joe Smith Cleveland Unrestricted F.A.
Eric Snow Cleveland Unrestricted F.A.
Wally Szczerbiak Cleveland Unrestricted F.A.
Billy Thomas Cleveland Unrestricted F.A.
Brandon Bass Dallas Unrestricted F.A.
Eddie Jones Dallas Unrestricted F.A.
Jason Kidd Dallas Unrestricted F.A.
Taurean Green Denver Restricted F.A.
Allen Iverson Denver Unrestricted F.A.
Bobby Jones Denver Restricted F.A.
Linas Kleiza Denver Restricted F.A.
Jason Maxiell Detroit Restricted F.A.
Cheick Samb Detroit Restricted F.A.
Rasheed Wallace Detroit Unrestricted F.A.
Baron Davis Golden State Unrestricted F.A.
CJ Watson Golden State Restricted F.A.
Steve Francis Houston Unrestricted F.A.
Mike Harris Houston Restricted F.A.
Luther Head Houston Restricted F.A.
Bobby Jackson Houston Unrestricted F.A.
Steve Novak Houston Unrestricted F.A.
Loren Woods Houston Unrestricted F.A.
Ike Diogu Indiana Restricted F.A.
Jeff Foster Indiana Unrestricted F.A.
Stephen Graham Indiana Unrestricted F.A.
Danny Granger Indiana Restricted F.A.
Elton Brand Los Angeles Clippers Unrestricted F.A.
Brevin Knight Los Angeles Clippers Unrestricted F.A.
Corey Maggette Los Angeles Clippers Unrestricted F.A.
Trevor Ariza Los Angeles Lakers Unrestricted F.A.
Andrew Bynum Los Angeles Lakers Restricted F.A.
Coby Karl Los Angeles Lakers Restricted F.A.
Chris Mihm Los Angeles Lakers Unrestricted F.A.
Lamar Odom Los Angeles Lakers Unrestricted F.A.
Hakim Warrick Memphis Restricted F.A.
Joel Anthony Miami Restricted F.A.
Stephane Lasme Miami Restricted F.A.
Shawn Marion Miami Unrestricted F.A.
Andrew Bogut Milwaukee Restricted F.A.
Desmond Mason Milwaukee Unrestricted F.A.
Ramon Sessions Milwaukee Restricted F.A.
Awvee Storey Milwaukee Unrestricted F.A.
Charlie Villanueva Milwaukee Restricted F.A.
Jason Collins Minnesota Unrestricted F.A.
Rashad McCants Minnesota Restricted F.A.
Stromile Swift New Jersey Unrestricted F.A.
Melvin Ely New Orleans Unrestricted F.A.
Chris Paul New Orleans Restricted F.A.
David Lee New York Restricted F.A.
Stephon Marbury New York Unrestricted F.A.
Nate Robinson New York Restricted F.A.
Malik Rose New York Unrestricted F.A.
Keith Bogans Orlando Unrestricted F.A.
Marcin Gortat Orlando Restricted F.A.
Calvin Booth Philadelphia Unrestricted F.A.
Andre Miller Philadelphia Unrestricted F.A.
Grant Hill Phoenix Unrestricted F.A.
DJ Strawberry Phoenix Restricted F.A.
Channing Frye Portland Restricted F.A.
Jarrett Jack Portland Restricted F.A.
Raef LaFrentz Portland Unrestricted F.A.
Josh McRoberts Portland Restricted F.A.
Martell Webster Portland Restricted F.A.
Ron Artest Sacramento Unrestricted F.A.
Francisco Garcia Sacramento Restricted F.A.
Brent Barry San Antonio Unrestricted F.A.
Ime Udoka San Antonio Unrestricted F.A.
Jacque Vaughn San Antonio Unrestricted F.A.
Adrian Griffin Seattle Unrestricted F.A.
Donyell Marshall Seattle Unrestricted F.A.
Johan Petro Seattle Restricted F.A.
Chris Wilcox Seattle Unrestricted F.A.
Maceo Baston Toronto Unrestricted F.A.
Jorge Garbajosa Toronto Unrestricted F.A.
Joey Graham Toronto Restricted F.A.
Jamario Moon Toronto Restricted F.A.
Rasho Nesterovic Toronto Unrestricted F.A.
Anthony Parker Toronto Unrestricted F.A.
Jarron Collins Utah Unrestricted F.A.
Jason Hart Utah Unrestricted F.A.
Paul Millsap Utah Restricted F.A.
Ronnie Price Utah Unrestricted F.A.
Deron Williams Utah Restricted F.A.

mike_D
06-27-2008, 08:23 PM
Whats the rush? This team is in rebuilding mode, we shouldn't make any drastic moves at powerforward to add significant money to our payroll. Two most important things I think when trying to rebuild is to make sure you have salary cap flexibility to make trades or free agent signing and young talent.

As far as next year I believe at some point Hibbert will be our starting center. I'm not as high on him as others are, I have concerns if he's going to be a good rebounder/defender in this league, but I don't have any concerns about his offensive ability.I think he will be a better offensive player in the NBA then he was in college and he was pretty good in college. So I do think he will be a low post presence for us as well as being able to hit a 15 footer.

Granger should be able to play the powerforward, he played that alot in college, and he played well at that position as a rookie. I think by playing him at powerforward will create mismatches out on the perimeter and will help us in transition. The wild card here is Shawn Williams. He was drafted at 17 with the potential to be a star. I think he is the only guy on our roster who has the talent to be be special and all the moves we made this offseason will give him a chance to play and to see if he can start living up to the hype.I expect to see him play alot of pf as well.

We also have Foster at the 4 who I think should balance Hibbert perfectly. So for the short term I think were Ok at that spot.

immortality
06-27-2008, 08:29 PM
isn't andre biedrins a restricted free agent =D ?

PaceBalls
06-27-2008, 08:48 PM
Wow
Looking at that list of 09 FAs.. We would be better off drafting a good PF. Being top bidder for above average talent, or the best available, in Free Agency is usually a bad idea and will cost you big bucks.

NuffSaid
06-27-2008, 08:51 PM
Al Harrington would be a nice pf in JOB's system
I could have gone the rest of my life WITHOUT anyone every suggesting bringing back Al Harrington. Can we not go down this road again, folks?

Noodle
06-27-2008, 08:54 PM
Wow
Looking at that list of 09 FAs.. We would be better off drafting a good PF. Being top bidder for above average talent, or the best available, in Free Agency is usually a bad idea and will cost you big bucks.

I actually agree with that. We need to resign Granger next year anyway.

BruceLeeroy
06-27-2008, 11:30 PM
Chris Wilcox, Lamaar Odom, Elton Brand or David Lee are the guys I'd be looking to aquire.

David Lee is probably the one I prefer the most because we might be able to get him without giving up Dunleavy, but if any of those other guys could be had I'd quickly give up Mike.

avoidingtheclowns
06-28-2008, 10:11 AM
Leon Powe - perhaps available for the right price

Josh Boone - could be the odd man out in new jersey after trading for yi and drafting anderson and b. lopez.

Indra
06-28-2008, 11:33 AM
I would really like to see the Pacers try to get Lamar Odom. He has a lot of experience, is a pretty good scorer, has good range, and can play inside too if you need him to.

Coop
06-28-2008, 12:31 PM
So who do you propose we trade to receive a double double, agile, big-man that was just an integral part in his team's Finals run?

lavell12
06-28-2008, 12:45 PM
Udonis Haslem maybe available. I wonder if a Dunleavy for Haslme plus something else deal would work?

PaceBalls
06-28-2008, 12:45 PM
Everyone we have doesn't have much trade value.

Foster and Junior maybe, but Junior gets paid alot and people don't think he is near as good as we do. Still a package of those two guys plus draft picks might land us a decent PF. Maybe Elton, then we would have to resign him or let him expire. That might be viable to cut salary even more, especially if you think of Junior is not worth the contract, but personally, I think I would rather keep Jeff and Dun.

There is just no way we are gonna end up with Lamar. He will want way too much money and someone will pay him that.

NapTonius Monk
06-28-2008, 01:11 PM
So who do you propose we trade to receive a double double, agile, big-man that was just an integral part in his team's Finals run?

And who was just as integral in bringing that run to an end! PASS!

Coop
06-28-2008, 01:23 PM
And who was just as integral in bringing that run to an end! PASS!

:hmm:


What are you talking about? No one played great in the Finals for LA. How are you going to blame Odom?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=0617

TheDon
06-28-2008, 06:33 PM
Marion, Odom, Jamison, Lee all come to mind....but I really don't expect Bird to be swinging for the fences to attempt to address the PF spot. Just a guy that can hold his own and be serviceable will be just as good and probably more realistic and a better idea for us is to be more mindful of the future instead of short term considering it's not like we need that one piece to push into title contention next year.

CableKC
06-28-2008, 06:39 PM
Marion, Odom, Jamison, Lee all come to mind....but I really don't expect Bird to be swinging for the fences to attempt to address the PF spot. Just a guy that can hold his own and be serviceable will be just as good and probably more realistic and a better idea for us is to be more mindful of the future instead of short term considering it's not like we need that one piece to push into title contention next year.
Unless some deal comes up that we cannot pass on....I think that Bird is going to be patient and look to the 2009 Offseason to fix this likely hole that we have....either through Free Agency or ( I'm guessing ) through the draft.

Keep in mind that we have to resign Granger, Jack and ( likely ) Foster....any PF that we get will have to be a relatively cheap one.

Aw Heck
06-28-2008, 06:47 PM
Unless some deal comes up that we cannot pass on....I think that Bird is going to be patient and look to the 2009 Offseason to fix this likely hole that we have....either through Free Agency or ( I'm guessing ) through the draft.

Keep in mind that we have to resign Granger, Jack and ( likely ) Foster....any PF that we get will have to be a relatively cheap one.
I agree. I don't see Bird fixing the front court anytime soon. We just don't have the pieces to acquire someone worthwhile.

Sure, we could trade some of our expiring contracts and take back OK-at-best players with bad contracts (Mark Blount, Nene, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Kenny Thomas). But there's no point. The Pacers aren't going to be close to contending next year. Why sacrifice cap space for a player you know isn't going to be a long-term solution?

I think Bird will hold onto all of his expiring contracts, unless a real nice offer comes at the trade deadline. Otherwise, I think he'll go for a post scorer in next year's draft and work from there.

Hicks
06-28-2008, 06:51 PM
I don't see us having a gaping hole up front. Murphy/Foster is a solid pair at PF. Flawed, but solid.

Center is shakier until we know if Hibbert belongs in the league, but assuming he will (which I do), he and Rasho are serviceable as well.

Granger/Williams at 3 is more than solid.

Some of the wheels might be a little wobbly, but I think we're pretty balanced.

esabyrn333
06-28-2008, 07:04 PM
I don't see us having a gaping hole up front. Murphy/Foster is a solid pair at PF. Flawed, but solid.

Center is shakier until we know if Hibbert belongs in the league, but assuming he will (which I do), he and Rasho are serviceable as well.

Granger/Williams at 3 is more than solid.

Some of the wheels might be a little wobbly, but I think we're pretty balanced.


This is what I think also.

Not to mention I could see Shawne bulking up a little and becoming our PF of the future.

He is only 22 the same age as Hibbert and is younger than Rush.

At 6-9 225 I could easily see him putting on 20 to 25 more pounds of muscle easy.

I hope Larry holds onto him, moves Tin man and Marquise and let Perkins and the positive environment help him develop as a pro.

I think this team is very balanced and the player should complement each other very nicely I can't wait to next year personally.

Pacemaker
06-28-2008, 07:10 PM
With Ford, Rush, Granger, Williams and Hibbert as a core, the Pacers' future looks bright to me. :cool:

pwee31
06-28-2008, 07:28 PM
I think we have the expirings to bring in someone if we really wanted to, but you also have to keep in mind that Danny is gonna need a raise next year as well.

I don't think we need a dominant PF, just a serviceable one who can defend fairly well, rebound and hit a couple shots here or there.

Guys that come to mind for me are:

Channing Frye
Chris Wilcox
Sean May (if healthy)
Drew Gooden
Brandon Wright (still young)
Udonis Haslem
Charlie Villanueva
Nenad Krstic (if healthy)
Hilton Armstrong
David Lee
Jared Jeffries (just a hunch he'd do well)
Mikki Moore

If we want to pay for an undersized PF like some have mentioned... you could always take a look at Josh Smith.

And I laugh at those who say we're going nowhere. Our team is all ready better then the team last year that was one game out of the playoffs. Yeah it was the East, but still!

Reckoner
06-28-2008, 09:41 PM
I don't see us having a gaping hole up front. Murphy/Foster is a solid pair at PF. Flawed, but solid.

Center is shakier until we know if Hibbert belongs in the league, but assuming he will (which I do), he and Rasho are serviceable as well.

Granger/Williams at 3 is more than solid.

Some of the wheels might be a little wobbly, but I think we're pretty balanced.

Agree. If we were contending you'd go for a quick fix but we're not...

Murphy is a good player, Foster is a good player, Hibbert is a good prospect who need opportunity. Rasho is OK.

I really hope we keep Williams, if he can get it together and support Murphy at PF then we have a decent and very flexible front court.

Quis, Tinsley and Harrison could be shopped for backup but I'd like to see how it goes for a while before even considering trading someone like Dunleavy who is our 2nd best player at the moment.

indyman37
06-28-2008, 09:48 PM
Marion, Odom, Jamison, Lee all come to mind....but I really don't expect Bird to be swinging for the fences to attempt to address the PF spot. Just a guy that can hold his own and be serviceable will be just as good and probably more realistic and a better idea for us is to be more mindful of the future instead of short term considering it's not like we need that one piece to push into title contention next year.
I don't know if this has already been mentioned or not, but I could swear I saw a blurb on realgm in the last couple of days that said the Pacers were talking to the Heat about Marion. I'll try and did it up.

But I agree with what Burtrem Redneck said. Let's draft Blake Griffin. :D

NapTonius Monk
06-28-2008, 09:49 PM
:hmm:


What are you talking about? No one played great in the Finals for LA. How are you going to blame Odom?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=0617

Didn't say it was his fault alone, but he's the most likely of the Lakers stars to pull a repeat performance next year. Anyway, I'm not the biggest Odom fan, so don't mind me.

indyman37
06-28-2008, 09:52 PM
Now that I read it, we may have been offering up JO seeing as how it was before the draft..but idk.
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53205/20080626/raptors_pacers_and_clippers_interested_in_marion/

Rajah Brown
06-28-2008, 09:55 PM
IM37-

We'll have to REALLY suck to have a shot at Griffin (I assume you were
kidding anyway). He'd have been a top-5-6 guy THIS year. Barring an
injury, he'll be top-3 next year. He's a beast !

indyman37
06-28-2008, 09:58 PM
IM37-

We'll have to REALLY suck to have a shot at Griffin (I assume you were
kidding anyway). He'd have been a top-5-6 guy THIS year. Barring an
injury, he'll be top-3 next year. He's a beast !
Yeah. Athletically, he makes Beasley look like Shaq.

eldubious
06-28-2008, 10:11 PM
I think we have the expirings to bring in someone if we really wanted to, but you also have to keep in mind that Danny is gonna need a raise next year as well.

I don't think we need a dominant PF, just a serviceable one who can defend fairly well, rebound and hit a couple shots here or there.

Guys that come to mind for me are:

Channing Frye
Chris Wilcox
Sean May (if healthy)
Drew Gooden
Brandon Wright (still young)
Udonis Haslem
Charlie Villanueva
Nenad Krstic (if healthy)
Hilton Armstrong
David Lee
Jared Jeffries (just a hunch he'd do well)
Mikki Moore


You took the word right out of my mouth, Frye, May, Villanueva, Kristic, will all be obtainable for a decent price. I think we may have to move Foster to get one of them.

esabyrn333
06-28-2008, 10:26 PM
You took the word right out of my mouth, Frye, May, Villanueva, Kristic, will all be obtainable for a decent price. I think we may have to move Foster to get one of them.


Do you think Kristic could be had for Marquis...I don't see NJ needing anymore bigs.

indyman37
06-28-2008, 10:30 PM
Do you think Kristic could be had for Marquis...I don't see NJ needing anymore bigs.
I don't want anything to do with Kristic. I would honestly take 10 more years of last years team than a team with him on it.

mcampbellarch
06-29-2008, 02:33 AM
No recognition of Maceo in all this. My pick for person most likely to exceed expectations / pleasantly surprise for this year.

wintermute
06-29-2008, 06:39 AM
yeah, maceo was solid in limited minutes in his first stint with the pacers. actually i think our big man rotation is pretty decent right now:

c: foster/rasho/hibbert
pf: murphy/baston/shawne/mcbob

but i don't think we're done trading.

Mourning
06-29-2008, 08:04 AM
I don't see us having a gaping hole up front. Murphy/Foster is a solid pair at PF. Flawed, but solid.

Center is shakier until we know if Hibbert belongs in the league, but assuming he will (which I do), he and Rasho are serviceable as well.

Granger/Williams at 3 is more than solid.

Some of the wheels might be a little wobbly, but I think we're pretty balanced.

I think defensively we are pretty horrible actually. Hibbert is a rookie, so he will get a lot more calls made on him, that's just the NBA. The year after that he might not get the same call. Rasho is just not a very good defender and average on offense.

Foster is a good defender, but mainly against PF's who can't totally overpower him, so he can use his speed to his advantage. He doesn't bring much offensively, but the occasional bucket and good offensive rebounding, which is good but you need to have atleast one scorer in your front court IMO or your team will get much to dependant on your backcourt and it's offense and the way they shoot and penetrate on a particular day and how good the opponents backcourt is.

Murphy gives you the opposite of Foster. Granted his defense has gone up a bit, but still definitely subpar. Offensively he's come back to what I would call his level at Golden State a few years back, which was a lot better then what we got earlier in the year. Can and will get rebounds, but lacks defensive quickeness and toughness, so you better have your best defensive center in the game when Murphy is playing aswell.

Anyway, I wouldn't do too much on the frontcourt this offseason. I would give a Shawne a chance at PF and give Baston some minutes there aswell. Both depending on matchups.

I would let some contracts expire next season (most notably Rasho and Quis) to get the salary structure a little more in check again and allow us to resign Danny and Jack aswell as Foster (if he accepts a "normal" contract and wants to stay at Indiana) and Rasho (for near the vets minimum).

Then I would start seriously looking at the PF position next year with maybe our pick and some expirings we can offer aswell as maybe some other players. Shawne if he plays decently maybe raises his valuable or maybe makes the search for a new PF redundant . We'll see.

The point is to resign our talented players by letting some guys expire. We aren't in a hurry, we have time to build a time instead of having to rush to pursue guys who can help us a bit, but aren't at all optimal of what we are looking for or what we need or getting a good PF with a contract that doesn't allow us to resign our players at the end of the coming season (Danny and Jack most notably).

Let's see what exactly we got first before making a big move in the frontcourt. And let's see how much room we still have left after our own resignings next summer.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Justin Tyme
06-29-2008, 09:02 AM
I think defensively we are pretty horrible actually. Hibbert is a rookie, so he will get a lot more calls made on him, that's just the NBA. The year after that he might not get the same call. Rasho is just not a very good defender and average on offense.

Foster is a good defender, but mainly against PF's who can't totally overpower him, so he can use his speed to his advantage. He doesn't bring much offensively, but the occasional bucket and good offensive rebounding, which is good but you need to have atleast one scorer in your front court IMO or your team will get much to dependant on your backcourt and it's offense and the way they shoot and penetrate on a particular day and how good the opponents backcourt is.

Murphy gives you the opposite of Foster. Granted his defense has gone up a bit, but still definitely subpar. Offensively he's come back to what I would call his level at Golden State a few years back, which was a lot better then what we got earlier in the year. Can and will get rebounds, but lacks defensive quickeness and toughness, so you better have your best defensive center in the game when Murphy is playing aswell.

Anyway, I wouldn't do too much on the frontcourt this offseason. I would give a Shawne a chance at PF and give Baston some minutes there aswell. Both depending on matchups.

I would let some contracts expire next season (most notably Rasho and Quis) to get the salary structure a little more in check again and allow us to resign Danny and Jack aswell as Foster (if he accepts a "normal" contract and wants to stay at Indiana) and Rasho (for near the vets minimum).

Then I would start seriously looking at the PF position next year with maybe our pick and some expirings we can offer aswell as maybe some other players. Shawne if he plays decently maybe raises his valuable or maybe makes the search for a new PF redundant . We'll see.

The point is to resign our talented players by letting some guys expire. We aren't in a hurry, we have time to build a time instead of having to rush to pursue guys who can help us a bit, but aren't at all optimal of what we are looking for or what we need or getting a good PF with a contract that doesn't allow us to resign our players at the end of the coming season (Danny and Jack most notably).

Let's see what exactly we got first before making a big move in the frontcourt. And let's see how much room we still have left after our own resignings next summer.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:



What I see as not a possible option is Shawne. Bird said Williams is on thin ice and that if a trade comes along for him he's gone. As most realize by now, I'm anything but Bird GM fan, BUT I do believe Bird is honest and means what he says. In the case of Shawne, it's not if he finds a deal, but when he finds a deal. I don't see Shawne in the equation as an option at PF, unless it's for his new team.

The list of PF's in an earlier post had some nice possible PF's in it, but with the the Bucks trading Yi, I don't see CV(Charlie Villanueva) being traded now. I kept my eye on CV's play last year, and at one time be wasn't getting much PT which led me to believe he'd be available. Even leading up to the draft his name kept surfacing as being possibly traded, I don't believe that is true now. He's their starting PF at the moment.

What I would like to see the Pacers get is a DD type PF who is more of a scoring threat. A PF that can hit a jumper out to 15' when necessary, but plays mostly inside where they can rebound and play good solid D. One unlike Foster that can score on put backs and bunnies. A player whose game is the opposite of Murphy's. I'm not sure there is a player in that list that meets this criteria, but there are some I do like.

Does anyone have any thoughts about about Sean Williams?

Kuq_e_Zi91
06-29-2008, 09:09 AM
Does anyone have any thoughts about about Sean Williams?

NJ Nets Sean Williams? Isn't he part of their young core? I would love him. He'd be an energy guy and I know he can rebound and dunk(the rookie sophmore game) but would he be a starter? I kinda see him better off coming off the bench. I REALLY like Craig Smith. He's a free agent too. He can rebound and score, had a few 30 point games last season, and he's young. Fit in well next to Hibbert.

Justin Tyme
06-29-2008, 09:14 AM
I don't want anything to do with Kristic. I would honestly take 10 more years of last years team than a team with him on it.


What's your problem with KRSTIC?

I believe that last time the the Pacers were in the playoffs it was said JO would so badly out play Krstic. From what I remember, that never transpired.

MillerTime
06-29-2008, 09:22 AM
What's your problem with KRSTIC?

I believe that last time the the Pacers were in the playoffs it was said JO would so badly out play Krstic. From what I remember, that never transpired.

Krstic WAS good. He never really recovered from his injury. He did outplay Krstic. But I wouldnt want him after his injury.

Justin Tyme
06-29-2008, 10:40 AM
Krstic WAS good. He never really recovered from his injury. He did outplay Krstic. But I wouldnt want him after his injury.

I wanted the NJ/JO trade with Krstic part of the deal even with him recovering from the injury. I kept my eye on him during the last season, and yes he was struggling with the injury. I believe this year will be different. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Krstic that it is.

Justin Tyme
06-29-2008, 10:44 AM
NJ Nets Sean Williams? Isn't he part of their young core? I would love him. He'd be an energy guy and I know he can rebound and dunk(the rookie sophmore game) but would he be a starter? I kinda see him better off coming off the bench. I REALLY like Craig Smith. He's a free agent too. He can rebound and score, had a few 30 point games last season, and he's young. Fit in well next to Hibbert.


Yes, S Williams is, but they just drafted Brook Lopez and Ryan Anderson, plus they have Boone and Krstic. Not to mention they just traded for Yi. They might be willing to deal him. They need a SF, and the Pacers could trade Shawne Williams to them.

Kuq_e_Zi91
06-29-2008, 10:57 AM
Shawne Williams for Sean Williams. I kinda like it.

esabyrn333
06-29-2008, 11:02 AM
Yes, S Williams is, but they just drafted Brook Lopez and Ryan Anderson, plus they have Boone and Krstic. Not to mention they just traded for Yi. They might be willing to deal him. They need a SF, and the Pacers could trade Shawne Williams to them.

You also forgot about Yi.... I would be happy for a Shawne Williams for Sean Williams trade....

mrknowname
06-29-2008, 11:10 AM
i can't imagine larry bringing a known headcase like sean williams to the pacers as we go through a culture change.

i'd trade shawne for boone though

Justin Tyme
06-29-2008, 11:41 AM
You also forgot about Yi.... I would be happy for a Shawne Williams for Sean Williams trade....


Yes & no. I forgot then remembered to add it.

Justin Tyme
06-29-2008, 11:50 AM
i can't imagine larry bringing a known headcase like sean williams to the pacers as we go through a culture change.

i'd trade shawne for boone though

To my knowledge, Sean Williams has been no problem for the Nets. Anymore than Marcus Williams has been to the Nets. But I do understand your comment/concern about Sean. There was a lot of concern about Marcus when Bird chose Shawne over Marcus. The one with the problem in college. Marcus, seems to have been a better citizen than the other, Shawne.

I'm not sure Boone is as good as/can be as good as Sean. I wish I knew more about Boone. Anyone have any info on Boone's play and capability?

mrknowname
06-29-2008, 12:03 PM
To my knowledge, Sean Williams has been no problem for the Nets. Anymore than Marcus Williams has been to the Nets. But I do understand your comment/concern about Sean. There was a lot of concern about Marcus when Bird chose Shawne over Marcus. The one with the problem in college. Marcus, seems to have been a better citizen than the other, Shawne.

I'm not sure Boone is as good as/can be as good as Sean. I wish I knew more about Boone. Anyone have any info on Boone's play and capability?

i mean i wouldn't mind sean williams. i just don't think thats a risk bird wants to take right now though. and i can already imagine kravitz writing an article detailing every bad thing sean williams did lol

but i do feel like we're bringing in good locker room guys who are leaders on and off the court. so maybe a guy like sean williams could be a risk to take

d_c
06-29-2008, 12:11 PM
Does anyone have any thoughts about about Sean Williams?

Right now, Sean Williams just isn't that good.

He'll have his moments where he'll give you a huge dunk or some spectacular blocks (sometimes 4-5 in a game), but he just doesn't do a heck of a lot outside of these two things. Doesn't have much ability to create any kind of offense. His production really slipped after Kidd got traded.

My guess is NJ is just going to roll with the young bigs (Lopez, Williams, Boone, Anderson, Yi) they have and see which one of them looks like they'll pan out.

He'd be a good get for a team just searching for any kind of athleticism up front like the Pacers, but right now I think the Nets would probably rather have Sean instead of Shawne.

eldubious
06-29-2008, 12:20 PM
Do you think Kristic could be had for Marquis...I don't see NJ needing anymore bigs.

I think May and Frye are better fits, Kristic is not that much different from Murphy. I know Portland would want Foster in return and Charlotte would probably settle for Shawne and a filler.

diamonddave00
06-29-2008, 12:48 PM
I could see a Shawne Williams and Marquis Daniels to Heat for Udonis Haslem and perhaps Joe Anthony trade. Daniels would give the Heat a combo guard for a year, then come off the cap. Shawne Williams would provide youth and offense off the bench and depending on his play be let go after a year or retained at 2.4 million.

Haslem's playing time with the Heat will be cut by the trading for Beasley. Because he has a short term (2year deal 13.6 mil) he would provide the Pacers with a solid , tough pf for the short term.

Even acquiring him for Daniels expiring and Shawne's contracts would still allow the Pacers a 18 mil saving for 2009-10 , before Granger and probably Jack are resigned. It would also be a 7.1 mil cap space after the 2009-10 season if the Pacers decide they don't want to resign him.

Haslem did average 12 ppg and 9 rpg before getting injured last season. He has averaged 10 ppg and 8 rpg over his 3 years in Miami , and can hit the mid range jumper. He'll never be a star but as a 2 year stop gap is well worth the risk in my opinion.

Maceo Baston is 32 and has played a grand total of 62 games and 508 total minutes the last 2 seasons , he offers the Pacers nothing but a good cheerleader and a practice player.

Placebo
06-29-2008, 12:57 PM
I think Shawne+Quis is too much talent to give for Haslem.
We can get much better deals with Shawne Quis duo.
Haslem was in Miami's winner roster, that's why people started to overrate him. I see nothing special in Haslem and I don't want him to be part of Pacers.

mrknowname
06-29-2008, 03:06 PM
how about dunleavy for stackhouse and brandon bass?????

CableKC
06-29-2008, 03:47 PM
Unless we can get a PF that will really help us and fit in with what we do that does not hinder our Financial Flexiblility for the next 2 seasons....I would much rather have Bird fill our PF needs by starting Murphy and using Foster, Granger, Shawne and Baston as backups to simply "muddle" through for this season and then see what we can do in the 2009 offseason.

As Hicks said...it's not glamourous....but we have an adequate PF rotation that should do for a single season. Once we get a clearer picture of how things pan out this season and how we do with resigning Granger, Jack and ( likely ) Foster...then we can figure out how we fix the PF issue.

I do not doubt that it is a problem that needs to be address.....I just don't think that it's an immediate problem that needs to be fixed or can wait until next offseason to address.

I've asked this before but didn't get any response, what type of scoring PF do we want?

Do we want a PF like JONeal/Brand ( a low post scoring PF that doesn't have any outside shot )?

or

Do we want a PF that can score from all over the place like Murphy?

This would give us an idea of who to possibly target or look for.

esabyrn333
06-29-2008, 04:21 PM
I would personally like a defensive minded POWER Foward with a nice low post game that can't be pushed around and makes rebounding look like an artwork. A Dale Davis, Karl Malone type of guy.

CableKC
06-29-2008, 04:59 PM
I would personally like a defensive minded POWER Foward with a nice low post game that can't be pushed around and makes rebounding look like an artwork. A Dale Davis, Karl Malone type of guy.
Who is out there that we can realistically get that fits this decription?

Wilcox?

Of course, many have suggested Josh Smith...but I doubt that we have the resources to get him. With Hibbert and ( hopefully ) Foster in our lineup for the next 2-3 seasons....although I always want a PF that is not an defensive liability....I would prefer a PF that is a solid scorer that doesn't play matador defense.

croz24
06-29-2008, 05:12 PM
bj mullens

BlueNGold
06-29-2008, 05:22 PM
Would Utah be willing to part with Paul Milsap? Maybe for a package including Foster or Dunleavy? I love how that guy plays the game and he is only 23. He is very strong and would be a fine starting PF...and he shoots for a very good pct.

IMO, if Rush pans out, Dunleavy will not be needed. It's already questionable to be playing Dun at SG.

Shade
06-29-2008, 05:45 PM
I kinda hate to say this, because I don't particularly care for the guy, but...

Boozer? :shrug:

Kuq_e_Zi91
06-29-2008, 05:54 PM
Craig Smith. He can be had too. He's a restricted free agent, but I don't think Minnesota needs him as much now with Love and that core of other young guys. He's a little undersized for PF but he definitely has that power your looking for. He just needs playing time.

Isaac
06-29-2008, 05:57 PM
Would Utah be willing to part with Paul Milsap? Maybe for a package including Foster or Dunleavy? I love how that guy plays the game and he is only 23. He is very strong and would be a fine starting PF...and he shoots for a very good pct.

IMO, if Rush pans out, Dunleavy will not be needed. It's already questionable to be playing Dun at SG.

I believe Milsap is a free agent. even if he wasn't, Foster alone is equal value, throwing in Dunleavy would be absolutely crazy for us.

Justin Tyme
06-29-2008, 07:07 PM
Paul Milsap, Craig Smith, Leon Powe, and Ike are all PF's with the same type size, listed at 6'8"ish and 250ish. All small height wise for a PF, and don't equate to a DD type PF that I would prefer. None are starters, and Smith would probably be the easiest to acquire. Personally, I think there are better options.

Isaac
06-29-2008, 07:38 PM
Charlie Villauneva could be had for cheap and could be a decent option. I wouldn't want him and Murphy to ever play together at the same time though, and I think I would rather go with a Foster/Murphy, Hibbert/Rasho combo at the 4 and 5 than go after him.

I don't think it is as drastic to fix it right now as a lot of people do. Maybe we can get Blake Griffin next year.

esabyrn333
06-29-2008, 08:10 PM
I see the Bucks are going to move Charlie V. Whats up with him. They say he won't last long in Scott Skiles system??? I haven't watched him play. Whats his game like.

BlueNGold
06-29-2008, 08:20 PM
Paul Milsap, Craig Smith, Leon Powe, and Ike are all PF's with the same type size, listed at 6'8"ish and 250ish. All small height wise for a PF, and don't equate to a DD type PF that I would prefer. None are starters, and Smith would probably be the easiest to acquire. Personally, I think there are better options.

Elton Brand is the same size. I think the difference is talent more the need to be as tall as JO...and 250ish is certainly heavy enough for PF. IMO, Milsap is pretty talented and knows how to play the game...not like Brand, but much better than Ike.

Anyway, I do like your DD reference. It would be much better to have a guy like that...even though I think Milsap has more overall talent offensively. I think it is critical that a PF be able to hit the spot up jumper with a center like Hibbert. Otherwise the floor is not adequately spread. Hopefully Foster has that aspect of his game sharpened up.

ChicagoJ
06-30-2008, 10:47 AM
IM37-

We'll have to REALLY suck to have a shot at Griffin (I assume you were
kidding anyway). He'd have been a top-5-6 guy THIS year. Barring an
injury, he'll be top-3 next year. He's a beast !

Put Jack, Rush and Hibbert in the starting lineup from day #1, and we should be in a position to be drafting no worse than #4 next season.

But then we are building for a future. I'll watch these guys win 19 games much more than I'll watch last season's team play close to 0.500.

If Ford, Dunleavy and Foster stay in the starting lineup we know this team is committed to years and years of slightly under 0.500 ball, not getting better.

JayRedd
06-30-2008, 10:58 AM
I'll watch these guys win 19 games much more than I'll watch last season's team play close to 0.500.

Plus, we can get Ricky Rubio.

indyman37
06-30-2008, 11:18 AM
What's your problem with KRSTIC?

I believe that last time the the Pacers were in the playoffs it was said JO would so badly out play Krstic. From what I remember, that never transpired.
See MillerTime's post.

freddielewis14
07-03-2008, 05:28 PM
chris andersen is the answer

CableKC
07-03-2008, 05:38 PM
chris andersen is the answer
BiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrddddddddMannnnnnnn is not the answer......

OakMoses
07-03-2008, 06:27 PM
I really think we need to see what Hibbert's going to bring to the table before we make any long term decisions about the 4 spot. If Hibbert appears to be a long-term starter at 5, then we need to get a player to complement him. Walsh was good at this as Dale Davis was a near perfect complement to Rik Smits and Brad Miller was the same for JO.

If Hibbert is a guy we can throw the ball into in the post and have him be a scoring threat, we can play him with a guy like Murphy or Marion. If Hibbert's going to be a high post jump-shooting big, we should go after someone like Haslem.

I think our frontcourt will be a weakness this year, but I still think it will be better than our largely JO-less frontcourt last season. I'd love to see Shawne Williams be given the chance to emerge as a Lamar Odom style PF. He responded maturely to Bird's comments, so maybe he's starting to figure some things out.

Justin Tyme
07-03-2008, 06:30 PM
See MillerTime's post.


It seems you and MillerTime saw a different series and have a different view on how Krstic played than Phildog and Duke Dynamite on the Nets, Krstic Appears To Be Parting Ways thread.

You are entitled to your opinion, but Krstic played well and had a fine series against the Pacers. I stand by by statement.