PDA

View Full Version : Jarrett Jack



JayRedd
06-27-2008, 12:36 PM
I'm just starting this to see what people think of Jack. I have the feeling people are pretty "meh" on him mostly...and that's probably somewhat warranted.

I've actually liked the guy since GTech. Not sure exactly what it is, but he's strong, athletic, solid and pretty even-keeled. He's unspectacular but doesn't make many major errors. Sure, he gets beat defensively just like everyone else, but he doesn't seem to get caught five feet out of position by gambling or get blown by by three feet because he stops sliding his feet and gives up on the play once he has lost the advantage. I've always viewed him as the prototypical "Get beat, turn and run to catch up" type of guy.

He isn't a great penetrator, but can get to the rim. He's not a great shooter from mid-range or deep, but can hit open looks (of which he'll get plenty) on a semi-reliable basis. More importantly, he doesn't force many looks. On penetration, he'll easily pull the ball out or -- more often -- kick it out once he realizes there is no "spot spot."

Basically, I like everything about this guy. I've wanted him for a few years. No....He's not the answer. I'm not trying to say that. But his body type and even-keeled on-court demeanor I think will be a good counter-balance to TJ's Speedy Gonzalez routine.

As far as past Pacers go, he reminds me of a slightly more offensively refined Heywoode Workman. Or, most accurately, I see him as sort of a smaller version of the Chicago-Era Ron Harper in the sense that you don't necessarilly notice him doing great things out on the court, but you never really see him do anything that makes you swear either. He doesn't have Harper's veteran savvy of course so there are more dumb-plays, but he sort of runs that type of methodical and physical PG-style of "walk it up quickly...initate offense...go get ball if other guys aren't doing anything effective....reinitiate offense." Not a natural playmaker...but an offense initiater or -- to use a dumb football expression -- a game manager.

But enough about me...what do other people think?

count55
06-27-2008, 12:39 PM
I've liked the guy since GTech. He's strong, athletic, solid and pretty even-keeled. He's unspectacular but doesn't make many major errors. Sure, he gets beat defensively just like everyone else, but he doesn't seem to get caught five feet out of position by gambling or get blown by by three feet because he stops sliding his feet and gives up on the play once he has lost the advantage. I've always viewed him as the prototypical "Get beat, turn and run to catch up" type of guy.

He isn't a great penetrator, but can get to the rim. He's not a great shooter from mid-range or deep, but can hit open looks (of which he'll get plenty) on a semi-reliable basis. More importantly, he doesn't force many looks. On penetration, he'll easily pull the ball out or -- more often -- kick it out once he realizes there is no "spot spot."

Basically, I like everything about this guy. I've wanted him for a few years. No....He's not the answer. I'm not trying to say that. But his body type and even-keeled on-court demeanor I think will be a good counter-balance to TJ's Speedy Gonzalez routine.

As far as past Pacers go, he reminds me of Heywoode Workman and I also sort of see him as a smaller version of the Chicago-Era Ron Harper in the sense that you don't necessarilly notice him doing great things out on the court, but you never really see him do anything that makes you swear either.

But enough about me...what do other people think?

I was thinking Vern Fleming without the scorer's mentality. Though Vern was probably a more reliable ballhandler (but not a creator by any stretch of the imagination.)

I like the addition, and I think he's going to be a good fit here.

2minutes twowa
06-27-2008, 12:44 PM
As far as past Pacers go, he reminds me of slightly more offensively refined Heywoode Workman.

Good comparison. I wonder if he has that high pitched scream that Woody had:D

Shade
06-27-2008, 12:57 PM
Jack is the best back-up point we've had in a looooong time. Hopefully, Ford will stay healthy and Jack will stay the back-up.

Putnam
06-27-2008, 01:01 PM
He reminds me of Heywoode Workman, and that is a good thing. (EDIT: You already say this in the OP. I'll leave mine, since I came to it independently before reading yours.)


But not everybody feels that way:





Of course. I don’t even know why I’m surprised. Jerryd Bayless is traded from Indiana (along with Ike Diogu) to Portland for Brandon Rush and mediocre PG Jarrett Jack. Since Brandon’s brother Kareem Rush plays for Indy, he’s probably very happy about it. At least that makes one person in the entire state.

JayRedd
06-27-2008, 01:04 PM
Haha...I was half-drunk.

I've honestly seen Jerryd play twice. I just bought into the pre-draft hype and the "Oh my God there is a Santa Claus" feeling of having him fall to us.

Rush is who I wanted (out of the eight or so NCAA guys I have an informed opinion on) since March 2007 really, and I've wanted Jack since he came to the NBA. Not sure why I was so upset aside from the fact that I thought Bayless could be a potential savior in shining armor, which is of course not even realistic.

count55
06-27-2008, 01:06 PM
Haha...I was half-drunk.

I've honestly seen Jerryd play twice. I just bought into the pre-draft hype and the "Oh my God there is a Santa Claus" feeling of having him fall to us.

Rush is who I wanted (out of the eight or so NCAA guys I have an informed opinion on) since March 2007 really, and I've wanted Jack since he came to the NBA. Not sure why I was so upset aside from the fact that I thought Bayless could be a potential savior in shining armor, which is of course not even realistic.

Hey...no realism allowed...

Arcadian
06-27-2008, 01:07 PM
I like Jack. Our point guard position is the best it has been in a long, long time.

ab2cmiller
06-27-2008, 01:11 PM
I read some of the Blazer postings and it sounds like most of them had tremendous respect for him as a person and he should be a great locker room guy.

The biggest negative about Jack according to them is that he does a bad job at running the break and were frustrated at his tendency to try to find someone to pass to after leaving his feet resulting in turnovers.

Oneal07
06-27-2008, 01:12 PM
Seriously love the pick up. As long as him and TJ are on the same page, we'll be alright

Unclebuck
06-27-2008, 01:38 PM
Here is what I posted in another thread

I really like your point about Jack being a perfect complement to TJ Ford. Jack is a bigger point guard who can come in and defend the bigger point guards that Ford will have some trouble with. I've watched Jack play a lot - As I've wanted the Pacers to acquire him for the past two season. But it is very difficult to describe Jack's game. he is the type of player that doesn't stand out, in fact you really don't notice him on the floor. He's the type of player that you only realize what he adds to a team when he is on the bench - he makes the pass that leads to the assist, he defends, he makes the steady play.

Jack is unselfish, nonflashy, very steady - type of player who can do a little of everything, but is not great at any one thing.

What I like is he's an excellent defender - (that and free throw shooting are IMO his best attributes). I would not put him in the top 5 or 6 defensive point guards (whoever they might be) but I surely would put Jack in the second tier - the next 5 or 6 defending point. He has some trouble against the really quick smaller points, but excels against the bigger ones.

I also like his physical toughness - and from what I have seen he plays hard all the time.

is he a great shooter - No
is he a great penetrator - creator or passer - No.

2 last things:
1)I see him also being able to play shooting guard from time to time - he's big enough and that should allow Diener to get some minutes especially when we need spark, someone who will push the tempo.

2) That leads me to my last point - I don't see Jack as a great push guy - the Pacers offense will slow down when he plays point guard

RWB
06-27-2008, 01:41 PM
The biggest negative about Jack according to them is that he does a bad job at running the break and were frustrated at his tendency to try to find someone to pass to after leaving his feet resulting in turnovers.

:eek: Please don't tell us JJ idolized Travis Best.

ab2cmiller
06-27-2008, 01:43 PM
Another blurb about Jarrett in an OregonLive.com article

http://blog.oregonlive.com/blazers/2008/06/instant_reaction_to_the_blazer.html

I loved what Jack brought to the Blazers (bulldog toughness, scoring off the bench and his affinity to drive to the rim in traffic when no one else would) but I hated what he took away (turnovers and general mistakes). I think the Blazers will miss Jack and what he brought a bit, but I also think Bayless will fill most of those voids and then some. I'm happy I won't have to see another jump pass again.

D-BONE
06-27-2008, 01:47 PM
Jack's definitely been on my radar since last summer as a guy who could help us out. I'd be glad to have him with or without Ford, although it would seem they will complement one another. Solid but unspectacular comes to mind. I like his demeanor, toughness, and size.

Honestly, while I hope Rush materializes into everything we project and more, I'm as pleased if not more pleased to get JJ. My biggest priority going into this offseason was coming up with two viable PG options. As much as I admire Deiner's attitude and hustle, I just don't know that he's backup material on a nightly basis. So this sealed my biggest offseason target.

rexnom
06-27-2008, 02:00 PM
I like Jack. More than that, I like Ford-Jack, a PG rotation you can go to war with. I like the idea of being able to limit TJ's minutes so he can go at it 100% when he's in there.

ab2cmiller
06-27-2008, 02:03 PM
OK one final article, I think this is the best one as it has both his own comments as well as analysis from the writer on ALL aspects of Jarrett's game.

One thing I didn't realize was that Jarrett evidently spent a lot of time this past season at the two guard as well.

http://trailblazerscentercourt.blogspot.com/2008/04/my-game-jarrett-jack.html

My game: Jarrett Jack

Instead of giving my opinion of players performances this season, I thought I'd ask the players themselves to assess particular areas of their game. Here is what Jarrett Jack had to say, along with some various pertinent quantifiables.

Three-point shooting

“I’m right at the same thing; I think I’m like a percentage point off from where I was last year. I think I’ve taken more attempts and I think I feel more comfortable when I’m shooting the ball on the perimeter.”

Jack’s three point percentage dipped ever so slightly in the ’07-’08 season, going from 35% last year to 34% this year. He took two more three’s this season (65) than he did last season in 422 fewer minutes, which speaks to his increased confidence from beyond the arc. It probably also says something the different way Nate McMillan used Jack this year.

Interesting note: Jarrett Jack shot considerably better from three while playing away from the Rose Garden. Jack shot 38% from beyond the arc in the 41 away games compared to 32% in home games. What's more, he shot significantly better from three (40% to be exact) in the fourth quarter.

Man defense

“Pretty solid. I think at times I rely on my hands a little too much, but I think for the most part, my man-on-man defense is pretty good.”

It’s doesn’t tell the whole story on defense, but Jack’s steal numbers stayed fairly consistent in ’07-’08. He did drop from 1.1 per game to 0.7, but that probably had more to do with a decrease in minutes played. His steals per 48 minutes dipped from 1.56 last season to 1.31 this season.

Help defense

“Help defense is probably the best thing I do on defense. I think I’m probably one of the best players on the team when it comes to being at the right spot at the right time so if we do have a breakdown, I can cover another guy’s mistake.”

Ball handling

“I really did a great job of that. It was something I worked on over the summer, especially when the smaller guards are pressuring me up the court.”

Jack had some troubles with turnovers this season, though maybe not to the extent that it you would imagine when reading message boards and blogs. Jack did finish 37th in the league in total turnovers (178) 38th in turnovers per game (2.17) and 17th in turnovers per 48 minutes (3.38). It probably also didn’t help his image among fans that 36% of his turnovers this season were committed in the fourth quarter or that he lead the team in fourth quarter turnovers with 62 (the next closest players had 32 TO’s in the fourth). The good news is that he finished 37th in assists per game (3.8), 39th in total assists (313) and 30th in assists per 48 minutes (6.7). Those are decent numbers when you consider Jack played a considerable about of minutes at the two-guard this season.

Free-throw shooting

“Pretty well, pretty much the same as I was last year, upper 80’s. Hopefully I can improve it next year into the 90 range.”

Jack excelled from the charity stripe this season, finishing 13th in the league in free-throw percentage (86.7%).

Field-goal shooting

“Pretty good. With me, I had to take on a new type of role this year, playing the two guard position. A lot of the shots at first I wasn’t comfortable with but now they’re starting to become comfortable so I’m knocking those down at a higher rate.”

Jack’s field-goal percentage when from 45% last year to 43% this year. You’d like to see it go the other direction, but 2 points isn’t a horrible drop.

Defending the fast break

‘That’s always tough. The numbers are always in the opponents favor, but you try to do the best job you can, try to force as many passes as possible and allow your teammates to rotate back on defense.”

Running the fast break

“I think we did a better job of that, playing a little bit more of an up-tempo style this year, for the most part. I think we’ve come a ways since last year.”

Confidence

“I think in the NBA, it goes up and down. It’s a long season. You have those stretches where you feel good about it and some where you think you’re struggling. I think everybody goes up and down”
Posted by Casey Holdahl

Anthem
06-27-2008, 02:15 PM
I really like Jack. I've been clamoring for him for a while (search the Digest and you'll find my name frequently). I'd rather have Bayless, but Jack is a prototype floor general. He'll run the team quietly and effectively. He's very solid, and not even a little bit flashy.

After sleeping on it, I hate the trade every bit as much as I did when I went to bed. But if you'd told me before the draft that the Pacers would trade back from 11 to 13 and pick up Jack, I'd have been pleased as punch. In this case I think we got fleeced by Portland, but I do like Jack and I'm glad he's a Pacer.

JayRedd
06-27-2008, 02:16 PM
Thanks for these ab2c.


Help defense

“Help defense is probably the best thing I do on defense. I think I’m probably one of the best players on the team when it comes to being at the right spot at the right time so if we do have a breakdown, I can cover another guy’s mistake.”

...and god knows they're gonna make a lot of them. I like to hear that he's (A) good at this and, even more so, (B) that he takes pride in it.

From the sounds of things, he's a little more TO prone than I was led to believe. I take some stuff with a grain of salt since everyone pretty much universally complains about TOs with all guards just like they do bad officiatiating with all referees, but I'll certainly be watching keenly on this front come November.

count55
06-27-2008, 02:28 PM
Thanks for these ab2c.



...and god knows they're gonna make a lot of them. I like to hear that he's (A) good at this and, even more so, (B) that he takes pride in it.

From the sounds of things, he's a little more TO prone than I was led to believe. I take some stuff with a grain of salt since everyone pretty much universally complains about TOs with all guards just like they do bad officiatiating with all referees, but I'll certainly be watching keenly on this front come November.

It sounds to me that his turnovers occur when he tries to create (which is out of his comfort zone). That is reminiscent of Vern, as well. He could reliably get the ball up the floor, even against pressure, but he couldn't really create for others and got in trouble when he tried.


(The Portland boards talked alot about him jumping up in the air then trying to pass.)

Unclebuck
06-27-2008, 03:16 PM
Reporter from Portland is on Eddie and Kravitz right now.

Jack is a great guy, great locker room guy. But on the court he is a little inconsistant, prone to mistakes.

lavell12
06-27-2008, 03:17 PM
I actually like Jack more than Ford b/c Jack can shoot a lot better.

DisplacedKnick
06-27-2008, 04:22 PM
Since he was in Portland I saw little of him but I really liked him coming out of college as a guy who could manage an offense in a non-flashy, steady way.

If you need your PG to break down a defense, he's the wrong guy. If you need someone to get the ball to a player in a position where he can do some damage, he should be good - he was in college anyway.

You still should have kept Bayless.

NuffSaid
06-27-2008, 05:18 PM
With all this talk about Bayless, B. Rush, TJ Ford and Jared Jack (if dubbed him "J3" as in the 3rd "Jack(son)" the Pacers have had), I wonder where this places Travis Diener on the PG depth chart?

Anthem
06-27-2008, 06:37 PM
With all this talk about Bayless, B. Rush, TJ Ford and Jared Jack (if dubbed him "J3" as in the 3rd "Jack(son)" the Pacers have had), I wonder where this places Travis Diener on the PG depth chart?
Backup, with Jack starting and Ford out due to injury.

BoomBaby31
06-27-2008, 08:44 PM
Backup, with Jack starting and Ford out due to injury.

I don't think Ford is going to miss much time, he played 50 some games his Rookie season, then played two seasons at 72-4 games, then last year only played 52 because Al Hortford almost decapitated him. The two straight 72-4 seasons shows we have light and probably why Bird wasn't scared in taking him. Jarrett Jack is a great back up pg, he can play significant minutes while ford is resting. Our PG position is now fixed.

imawhat
06-27-2008, 08:54 PM
I'm going to echo what has been said several times already.

I really like Jack. I've wanted him here for 2-3 years.

He's not afraid to take a big shot, very unspectacular, but very solid. I think he's more consistent than inconsistent.

I'm hoping we do something to move Diener now. I'm not a fan of the trade at all, as I think it would've been better to let Travis develop and let Bayless play combo guard. Plus, I think Bayless has an extremely high ceiling.

But if it had been DJ Augustin and Diogu for Jack and Rush, I would be thrilled.

Sandman21
06-27-2008, 08:55 PM
He has no character issues that we know of. At this point, thats good enough for me.

mcampbellarch
06-27-2008, 10:21 PM
Followed portland a fair amount last year. Jack comes off as a guy you would want to have over for dinner. One of the half time interviews followed him on his christmas shopping for his team mates, still recall his reaction looking at some dress shoes and telling the camera 'if there is not even a price on them, you know they are expensive'.

game side: not afraid to go to the rim or look awkward doing it but often effective. Tough if not the quickest on D. Will shoot from outside but I would not say it is his natural inclination. When roy was out last year and the line-ups lacked offense it put him in a tough spot, but with quick moving, or spot shooting complementary guys available he should be able to run the offense as more of a facilitator than an a captain. All that and he seems young ( i no longer have any perspective on age) and teachable.

aceace
06-27-2008, 11:03 PM
He has no character issues that we know of. At this point, thats good enough for me.You aint seen this have you....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu2RxkK39c0

Hicks
06-27-2008, 11:18 PM
You aint seen this have you....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu2RxkK39c0

Yeah, what a menace: Looking at a guy ugly for throwing an elbow at his head. Let's trade him before October.

mrknowname
06-27-2008, 11:24 PM
You aint seen this have you....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu2RxkK39c0

:rolleyes:

guess dunleavy is a cancer too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOKsr4L9lh0&feature=related

Aw Heck
06-27-2008, 11:25 PM
You aint seen this have you....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu2RxkK39c0
That's nothing to be concerned about as long as it isn't a regular occurrence.

Reggie was certainly no stranger to scuffles in his career (Jordan and Kobe come to mind). Neither was Dale. I remember JO getting in his defenders faces if they were being extra physical with him (with Kendrick Perkins in the '04 playoffs and with Udonis Haslem in a regular season game are 2 examples I can think of).

count55
06-27-2008, 11:27 PM
You aint seen this have you....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu2RxkK39c0


I'd be more concerned if he had that goofy-*** ****ing beard that Skinner had.

avoidingtheclowns
06-27-2008, 11:35 PM
and lets pull this guy's number down from the rafters. quite a thug.

wAylx64KufI

ChicagoJ
06-28-2008, 12:39 AM
:eek: Please don't tell us JJ idolized Travis Best.

That's my fear - another GT PG that isn't Mark Price but more like Travis "Dribble" Bust.

Still, I'm not much of a fan of TJ Ford (at least not yet). So I don't see why anyone would assume that TJ Ford will beat out JJ for the starting spot.

Robertmto
06-28-2008, 12:45 AM
You aint seen this have you....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu2RxkK39c0

Thug

Oh you Pacer fans.........

JayRedd
06-28-2008, 12:52 AM
The girly eye-gouge is a classic.

LAPacer
06-28-2008, 12:55 AM
The girly eye-gouge is a classic.

I remember watching that game. Classic.

JayRedd
06-28-2008, 12:56 AM
Second only to the head-butt.

Anthem
06-28-2008, 12:59 AM
Reggie was certainly no stranger to scuffles in his career (Jordan and Kobe come to mind). Neither was Dale.
Understatement.

And I loved him for it.

ChicagoJ
06-28-2008, 01:08 AM
Jordan trips Reggie the play before. Chicken**** (Jess Kersey, what a surprise) officiating tosses Reggie and Bo Hill and calls nothing on Jordan.

TheDon
06-28-2008, 01:11 AM
I liked dale davis for the same reason. I remember a game when I was younger in Market Square Arena we were playing the 76'ers I believe it was. Shawn Bradley was still very new to the league and all game long Bradley must have just thought he could do what he wanted cause he was taller than anyone and kept throwing some cheap shots at Dale and Dale finally had enough of it, and had it not been for a few pacers keeping dale in check and a bunch of 6'ers protecting him, Bradley's career might have been over a lot sooner if that's even possible.

CableKC
06-28-2008, 01:19 PM
I asked the Blazers fans on RealGM of what they thought of Jack.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=819633&start=0

Most of them have a good opinion of Jack....but there does appear to be as many "cons" as there are "pros".

Pros:

- Hardnosed Tough
- Puts in alot of effort
- Good Lockerroom guy with no on/off court issues
- Outstanding FT guy and can shoot the 3pt ball if needed

Cons:

- Can be inconsistent and potentially Turnover prone during crunch time.
- Loses Confidence level real easily
- Very bad running the fast break ( this was mentioned several times )
- Doesn't mind driving to the hoop.....but he doesn't notice ( at times ) that there can be 4 defenders waiting for him in the paint
- Can be prone to bad decision making

From what I can gather....he can start if needed...even for a good # of starts....but it sounds like he's much better as a "stop-gap" solution at the PG spot IF Ford goes down with injury as opposed to being one that can start on a long-term basis. It sounds like Jack would be a much better backup PG coming off the bench rather then starting.

Sandman21
06-28-2008, 08:10 PM
You aint seen this have you....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu2RxkK39c0

If thats the worst thing Jack has done in his career, thats fine with me. Does the guy have an arrest record?


Jordan trips Reggie the play before. Chicken**** (Jess Kersey, what a surprise) officiating tosses Reggie and Bo Hill and calls nothing on Jordan.
And the league wonders why people don't trust the officials (although to be fair, they did eventually suspend MJ a game for that too).

Kuq_e_Zi91
06-28-2008, 08:26 PM
Best part of that video was Steve Javey asking who the other guys name was. "Jack and uh... what's his name...Skinner..both double techs."

ChicagoJ
06-30-2008, 11:03 AM
I asked the Blazers fans on RealGM of what they thought of Jack.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=819633&start=0

Most of them have a good opinion of Jack....but there does appear to be as many "cons" as there are "pros".

Pros:

- Hardnosed Tough
- Puts in alot of effort
- Good Lockerroom guy with no on/off court issues
- Outstanding FT guy and can shoot the 3pt ball if needed

Cons:

- Can be inconsistent and potentially Turnover prone during crunch time.
- Loses Confidence level real easily
- Very bad running the fast break ( this was mentioned several times )
- Doesn't mind driving to the hoop.....but he doesn't notice ( at times ) that there can be 4 defenders waiting for him in the paint
- Can be prone to bad decision making

From what I can gather....he can start if needed...even for a good # of starts....but it sounds like he's much better as a "stop-gap" solution at the PG spot IF Ford goes down with injury as opposed to being one that can start on a long-term basis. It sounds like Jack would be a much better backup PG coming off the bench rather then starting.

Dear God. He's Travis Best with five more inches??

:suicide:

ChicagoJ
06-30-2008, 11:13 AM
If thats the worst thing Jack has done in his career, thats fine with me. Does the guy have an arrest record?


And the league wonders why people don't trust the officials (although to be fair, they did eventually suspend MJ a game for that too).

Yes. I wrote a letter at the time that Jordan shouldn't have been suspsended from the next Bulls game (which was vs. the Knicks, IIRC), but from the next Pacers-Bulls game. There was no justice in that ruling whatsoever.