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Trader Joe
06-27-2008, 10:17 AM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080627/SPORTS15/806270441/1034/SPORTS15

If nothing else, it's a housecleaning

The Indiana Pacers didn't do much on draft night. Except . . .
Get much quicker, adding T.J. Ford, a speedy, explosive point guard, in the soon-to-be-consummated trade with the Toronto Raptors.

The Pacers haven't had this much quickness at the point since Travis Best -- and even mentioning Best here is a bit of a stretch to make the point.

Add lots of future salary cap flexibility, ridding themselves of Jermaine O'Neal's contract. Then, by acquiring useful center Rasho Nesterovic, they got the all-important expiring contract, one more year at $8.4 million.
Make Jamaal Tinsley, the Guard Who No Longer Exists, completely expendable. If the Pacers have to buy him out and eat the salary, they'll do it. Suddenly, there's a logjam at point guard. Forty-eight hours ago, could you have imagined?

Get deeper and more durable at the point, adding fourth-year player Jarrett Jack in a trade with Portland. At 6-3, Jack is much bigger than the 5-11 Ford and gives Indiana a stronger defensive presence on the perimeter. In three years, he has averaged 27 minutes, 9.5 points and 4.0 assists per game. Plus, he's cheap, making $2 million this year before becoming a restricted free agent.

Get bigger, much bigger, getting a true center by drafting Roy Hibbert out of Georgetown with the 17th pick.

Yeah, he's slow, real slow, and you wonder how he'll fit offensively into coach Jim O'Brien's system. But he's 7-2, and with O'Neal gone, the Pacers desperately needed size.

And finally, add Brandon Rush, the scoring guard/small forward whose development will be closely monitored next to Portland's Jerryd Bayless, the player originally chosen by the Pacers and then dealt to Portland. (Unofficially, of course.)

Other than that, it was a quiet night.

The craziest thing, though, was that team president Larry Bird couldn't even talk about his moves because both the Toronto and Portland trades involved "base year compensation'' players, which means the deals can't be completed until July 9. The Pacers lobbied the league to tell its fans about the new players, but the NBA shot them down, threatening any mention of players in proposed deals with a fine.
Dumb, really dumb.

After telling the local media he couldn't talk about the moves, Bird shrugged and said, "I don't know what the hell you're gonna ask me.''
Bird would start to talk about how he felt the Pacers improved, then catch himself, laugh and say, "Well, I know Toronto got themselves a lot more size tonight."

I don't know if Rush and Hibbert are going to be the right choices -- Bayless still holds more initial appeal for me -- but at the very least, the Pacers have answered the call for change.

As things stand now, Indiana should have at least seven new faces in camp -- Jack, Rush, Ford, Nesterovic, Hibbert, Maceo Baston (for the second time) and Josh McRoberts. And there's every reason to believe that Bird, who is on his own for the first time as an executive, is not done dealing. (Did he say Shawne Williams?)

The cleansing is virtually complete. By now, almost every Pacer who has been in trouble either on the court or off has been dispatched. Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson and O'Neal are gone. David Harrison almost certainly is. Tinsley is as good as gone. Williams is close to extinction as a Pacer. That leaves only Marquis Daniels, and the ultimate resolution there was he accepted a diversion agreement for his alleged role in a bar fight. Seems pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

It should be noted that in college, Rush had issues with traffic violations and a failure to make timely child support payments, but nothing that sent up a huge red flag for a franchise that has promised to clean up its act.

Earlier in the night, a huge crowd at the fieldhouse saw their first pipedream go up in smoke: Homeboy Eric Gordon got chosen seventh by the Los Angeles Clippers. No falling to No. 11.

Later, the Charlotte Bobcats, selecting ninth, took D.J. Augustin, the guard everybody had going to the Pacers. That sent a shudder through the stands. What would they do now? Who might fall all the way to 11, the way Danny Granger fell to No. 17 in the 2005 draft?

In the Pacers' draft room, though, this was no surprise. A few weeks ago, Bird told me that neither Westbrook nor Augustin would be available when the Pacers chose 11th. So he went out and got himself a point guard from Toronto. Actually, two point guards. And two centers. And cap flexibility.

And the offseason has just begun.
You wanted new Pacers. You got new Pacers. Lots of them.

Trader Joe
06-27-2008, 10:18 AM
A couple things struck me, but maybe the most interesting one was his comment that Bird knew Westbrook and Augustin wouldn't be there at 11 a couple of weeks ago.
Also, interesting that we petitioned the NBA to talk about the players.

Doug in CO
06-27-2008, 10:21 AM
So we like it when the columnist REPORTS like a news reporter (very few at the Star who dig up anything) as opposed to when he expresses his opinion - which like it or not, is a columnists job.

Whether you have ever agreed with him or not, that is his job.

I prefer my local media to put pressure on the local teams instead of being a PR extension of them.

Call me crazy.

idioteque
06-27-2008, 10:24 AM
It's so lame that we couldn't talk about the new players. Stern is a tool. I'm sure it was another "1-0" vote. Does he WANT us to shore up fan support via PR or does he like watching us suffer?

idioteque
06-27-2008, 10:24 AM
So we like it when the columnist REPORTS like a news reporter (very few at the Star who dig up anything) as opposed to when he expresses his opinion - which like it or not, is a columnists job.

Whether you have ever agreed with him or not, that is his job.

I prefer my local media to put pressure on the local teams instead of being a PR extension of them.

Call me crazy.

If you don't think Kravitz ever puts pressure on the Pacers, you haven't read much Kravitz.

Trader Joe
06-27-2008, 10:27 AM
So we like it when the columnist REPORTS like a news reporter (very few at the Star who dig up anything) as opposed to when he expresses his opinion - which like it or not, is a columnists job.

Whether you have ever agreed with him or not, that is his job.

I prefer my local media to put pressure on the local teams instead of being a PR extension of them.

Call me crazy.

I still think he puts his opinion out there, but I like it when he is more even keeled. I was half expecting him to be leading the charge off a bridge even though he's probably seen Bayless play, maybe once.

2minutes twowa
06-27-2008, 10:37 AM
I still think he puts his opinion out there, but I like it when he is more even keeled. I was half expecting him to be leading the charge off a bridge even though he's probably seen Bayless play, maybe once.

I think everyone, including Kravitz, realizes that the easy thing for Bird to do was to keep Bayless. With him being projected as high as #4, everyone would've praised the selection and probably had unrealistic expectations for the new PG. He took the harder route of trading what looked to be a huge win because it would make the team better. Not all GMs would've done that.

Doug in CO
06-27-2008, 10:39 AM
If you don't think Kravitz ever puts pressure on the Pacers, you haven't read much Kravitz.


I think a local media that is not a buch of patsies that gets scooped on local matters by national media is, well... pathetic.

Do I think Kravitz TRIES to put pressure on Pacers - yes.

Do I think he is effective - no.

Would I prefer a market where the ENTIRE media has some guts to call out and pressure the local teams... rallying the troops (fans)... yep.

Indy is what it is - it should be better. The fans deserve better. And the fans should start acting like it is Indianapolis, not Atlanta.

idioteque
06-27-2008, 10:42 AM
I think a local media that is not a buch of patsies that gets scooped on local matters by national media is, well... pathetic.

Do I think Kravitz TRIES to put pressure on Pacers - yes.

Do I think he is effective - no.

Would I prefer a market where the ENTIRE media has some guts to call out and pressure the local teams... rallying the troops (fans)... yep.

Indy is what it is - it should be better. The fans deserve better. And the fans should start acting like it is Indianapolis, not Atlanta.

Could the local media in Indianapolis be better? Yeah, from what I remember, but I've only been in Indy sporadically for the last five years. I don't think it's specifically an Indy problem. The coverage of the Wizards in DC, which is seen as a much larger market than Indy, is just as if not more pathetic. Their coverage sucks and they're a playoff team with a high profile player in Arenas. Their coverage pales in comparison to what local coverage the Pacers got in 2004 when they were still a relevant team. Now, I would say Wiz-Pacers coverage is almost equal. Indy fans are enamored with the Pacers when they are actually good. Once the team is good again and people actually start caring, more criticism will come actually because there will be more opinions out there.

And you're mad at Kravitz because he isn't influencing Pacers FO moves? Seriously? Name me one columnist who can do that. Everyone in the media is on the outside looking in.

Roaming Gnome
06-27-2008, 10:52 AM
Even though I don't really enjoy reading Mike Wells or Bob Kravitz, I want to say that they both have done a fine job this week in regards to the Pacers. Mike Wells got the scoop on the trade! The Toronto media followed off of Wells lead. Seemed like it was a first time that we didn't have to read about something Pacers related off someone else before the Star got a hold of it and the Pacers could "filter" it.

Unclebuck
06-27-2008, 11:10 AM
So we like it when the columnist REPORTS like a news reporter (very few at the Star who dig up anything) as opposed to when he expresses his opinion - which like it or not, is a columnists job.

Whether you have ever agreed with him or not, that is his job.

I prefer my local media to put pressure on the local teams instead of being a PR extension of them.

Call me crazy.

I don't disagree with you, but Bob's knowledge of the NBA is minimal at best

Hicks
06-27-2008, 11:21 AM
If you like what just happened, you don't write a negative column about it the next morning.

BillS
06-27-2008, 11:37 AM
If you like what just happened, you don't write a negative column about it the next morning.

That sums up my thought. You can put pressure on, but looking for negatives just so you have something "interesting" to talk about is worse than parroting the team line.

I don't want blinkered sunshine but I don't want head-in-a-sack gloom and doom, either. I want something that spends as much time on the positives as the negatives and doesn't beat the dead horse on either side.

Unclebuck
06-27-2008, 11:42 AM
I want someone who knows what they are talking about - someone who knows the NBA - knows the players (I don't mean knows them personally) knows the coaches, knows what the NBA is all about. But Kravitz doesn't - heck, Eddie makes fun of him all the time and when Wells was on his show earlier this week he made a remark - all in good fun - but something like you need to cover more than 4 games a year.

2minutes twowa
06-27-2008, 12:25 PM
I want someone who knows what they are talking about - someone who knows the NBA - knows the players (I don't mean knows them personally) knows the coaches, knows what the NBA is all about. But Kravitz doesn't - heck, Eddie makes fun of him all the time and when Wells was on his show earlier this week he made a remark - all in good fun - but something like you need to cover more than 4 games a year.

That's why I'm really gonna miss Montieth:(

blanket
06-27-2008, 02:15 PM
The craziest thing, though, was that team president Larry Bird couldn't even talk about his moves because both the Toronto and Portland trades involved "base year compensation'' players, which means the deals can't be completed until July 9.

Can someone explain to me why the players acquired via the Portland trade are bound by BYC rules? Aren't they all on rookie contracts? That doesn't sound right at all. :confused:

NuffSaid
06-27-2008, 02:18 PM
I want someone who knows what they are talking about - someone who knows the NBA - knows the players (I don't mean knows them personally) knows the coaches, knows what the NBA is all about. But Kravitz doesn't - heck, Eddie makes fun of him all the time and when Wells was on his show earlier this week he made a remark - all in good fun - but something like you need to cover more than 4 games a year.

That's why I'm really gonna miss Montieth:(
Here, here!

ABADays
06-27-2008, 02:27 PM
I want someone who knows what they are talking about - someone who knows the NBA - knows the players (I don't mean knows them personally) knows the coaches, knows what the NBA is all about. But Kravitz doesn't - heck, Eddie makes fun of him all the time and when Wells was on his show earlier this week he made a remark - all in good fun - but something like you need to cover more than 4 games a year.

Of course you want an NBA specialist. Then there would have to be an NFL specialist, racing specialist, tennis specialist, baseball specialist. There aren't many newspapers that are going to do that nowadays.

CableKC
06-27-2008, 02:30 PM
With JONeal and Tinsley gone....what is Kravitz going to write about now when it comes to the Pacers?

CableKC
06-27-2008, 02:33 PM
After telling the local media he couldn't talk about the moves, Bird shrugged and said, "I don't know what the hell you're gonna ask me.''
I have to admit...knowing the way that Bird is when it comes to the media and his straight-forwardness......when I read this part...it cracked me up. :laugh:

The response was actually kind of witty......very un-Bird-like if you ask me.

Unclebuck
06-27-2008, 02:36 PM
Of course you want an NBA specialist. Then there would have to be an NFL specialist, racing specialist, tennis specialist, baseball specialist. There aren't many newspapers that are going to do that nowadays.

I think you would only need an NFL specialist and an NBA specialist.

Actually a lot of newspapers have a columnist who used to be an NBA beat writer or who really knows the NBA. Bob Ryan comes to mind - and even Sam Smith who is a former Bulls beat writer, he knows the league, sure he comes up with crazy trades, but he knows the NBA. Vecsey is the same, thing, a former beat writer who knows the league.

I bet if I went NBA city, by NBA city, probably 95% of the columnist from accoss the country know the NBA better than Kravitz does

Slick Pinkham
06-27-2008, 02:48 PM
This is kind of like the movie "Poltergeist" where after a lot of effort, the old pychic lady thinks she has solved all the problems and declares "This house is CLEAN!"

Of course in the movie about 30 seconds later the bodies start popping up out of the ground and the house starts to implode. :eek:

I can imagine Bird in front of Conseco declaring "This house is CLEAN!" but I'll be plenty worried at whether if he is right or not. Get rid of Tinsley and Harrison without taking on awful contracts and I can come closer to buying in.

grace
06-27-2008, 02:52 PM
I don't disagree with you, but Bob's knowledge of the NBA is minimal at best

Bob's knowledge of the NBA comes from reading this board and infiltrating our forum parties. The problem is he doesn't know how to apply his pirated wisdom.

grace
06-27-2008, 02:56 PM
I bet if I went NBA city, by NBA city, probably 95% of the columnist from accoss the country know the NBA better than Kravitz does

Maybe we should get Larry to start working on a trade.

I swear :kravitz: was put on this earth to make me think Robin Miller is not the anti-Christ.

Hicks
06-27-2008, 07:14 PM
Can someone explain to me why the players acquired via the Portland trade are bound by BYC rules? Aren't they all on rookie contracts? That doesn't sound right at all. :confused:

I caught that too. The only player for Portland with a BYC right now it Travis Outlaw.

YoSoyIndy
06-27-2008, 07:55 PM
So we like it when the columnist REPORTS like a news reporter (very few at the Star who dig up anything) as opposed to when he expresses his opinion - which like it or not, is a columnists job.

Whether you have ever agreed with him or not, that is his job.

I prefer my local media to put pressure on the local teams instead of being a PR extension of them.

Call me crazy.

You're crazy. His job is to also be accurate. He shouldn't provide an opinion that is factually wrong (like saying both teams, Toronto and Portland, have BYCs involved in the trade when Portland does not).

If you listen to him on the radio, you realize he knows little about most sports, especially racing, NBA and NFL. I remember when he tried to name top LTs of all time on 1070 and stopped after two players.

And then he always acts like Danny Granger was the definite pick in 2005 even though many fans complained about passing up on Gerald Green.

He had to give a positive response because it was a positive draft. And because he doesn't know anything about basketball talent.

Kravitz likes to write the opposite take of what he thinks readers are thinking whether Colts, Pacers or IU, and I'd say a good % of fans were disappointed TPTB moved Bayless.

YoSoyIndy
06-27-2008, 07:59 PM
Of course you want an NBA specialist. Then there would have to be an NFL specialist, racing specialist, tennis specialist, baseball specialist. There aren't many newspapers that are going to do that nowadays.

But what does Kravitz know at all besides hockey? It's embarassing. He falls apart with most others, including his beloved IU. The reason he has a job is because he hits a chord with readers with his writing style.