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Will Galen
06-27-2008, 04:53 AM
I like to see how things look written down so I did some figuring and thought I would share. Of course some of this won't take effect until July 9.

They have to cut at least one player so I look for Bird to make a couple more moves. One would be to either trade Tinsley, or buy him out. Plus we could use another power forward, so we could have 2 more trades.

As is, I think Bird has done a superb job. If the Pacers just buy Tinsley out, and then stand pat, Bird has accomplished a lot!

1] He's made us more competitive.

2] If Shawne can move to the 4 spot, he's balanced our roster.

3] If he buys Tinsley out for a minimum of $18m. then the Pacer's likely won't go over the tax line.

4] And, he's set it up so we will have money to give to Granger a raise.

Not bad for a dumb old boy from French Lick like some of you mistakingly believe!:happydanc:happydanc:happydanc

Sixteen Man Roster
C 6'11 Jeff Foster
C 7'0 Rasho Nesterovic
C 7'2 Roy Hibbert
F 6'11 Troy Murphy
F 6'10 Maceo Baston
F 6'10 Josh McRoberts
F 6'8 Dranny Granger
F 6'6 Marquis Daniels
F 6'9 Shawne Williams
G 6'9 Mike Dunleavy
G 6'7 Brandon Rush
G 6'6 Stephen Graham
G 6'0 T.J. Ford
G 6'3 Jarrett Jack
G 6'1 Travis Diener
G 6'3 Jamaal Tinsley

Depth Chart ?
5C 6'11 Foster-7'2 Hibbert-7'0 Rasho
4F 6'11 Murphy-6'10 Baston-6'10 McRoberts
3F 6'8 Granger-6'6 Daniels-6'9 Williams
2G 6'9 Dun-6'7 Rush-6'6 Graham
1G 6'0 Ford-6'3 Jack-6'1 Diener-6'3 Tinsley

Main Rotation ?
5C 6'11 Foster/7'2 Hibbert
4F 6'11 Murphy
3F 6'8 Granger
2G 6'9 Dun/6'7 Rush
1G 6'0 Ford/6'3 Jack

Salaries
<table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="709"><tbody><tr><td class="table1column1" valign="top" width="24%">Name
</td> <td class="table1column2" valign="top" width="15%"> 08/09
</td> <td class="table1column3" valign="top" width="15%">09/10
</td> <td class="table1column4" valign="top" width="15%"> 10/11
</td> <td class="table1column5" valign="top" width="15%"> 11/12
</td> <td class="table1column6" valign="top" width="16%"> Total
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
<table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" height="737" width="705"><tbody><tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Troy Murphy
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$10,126,984
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$11,047,619
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$11,968,254
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> ------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">33,142,857
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Mike Dunleavy
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$9,000,000
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$9,780,992
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$10,561,984
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">29,342,976
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">T.J. Ford
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$8,275,000
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$8,775,000
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$8,775,000
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">25,825,000
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">R. Nesterovic
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$8,400,000
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">-------------
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">8,400,000
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Marquis Daniels
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$6,864,200
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$7,354,500
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">14,218,700
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Jamaal Tinsley
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$6,750,000
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$7,200,000
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$7,650,000
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">21,600,000
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Jeff Foster
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$5,500,000
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">-------------
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">5,500,000
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Danny Granger
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$2,329,805
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$3,289,685
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">5,619,490
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Jarrett Jack
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$2,002,623
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$2,899,798
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">4,902,421
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Maceo Baston
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,976,400
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">-------------
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">1,976,400
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Brandon Rush
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,661,300
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,785,900
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,910,500
</td> <td class="table2column5" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$2,535,234
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">7,892,934
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Travis Diener
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,620,000
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,740,000
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">7,892,934
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">S Williams
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,572,960
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$2,416,067
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$3,411,486
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">7,400,513
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Roy Hibbert
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,221,200
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,312,800
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,404,400
</td> <td class="table2column5" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$2,157,584
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">6,095,984
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Stephen Graham
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$826,269
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">--------------
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">826,269
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Josh McRoberts
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$711,517
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">--------------
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">711,517
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" align="right" valign="top" width="24%">
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">68,838,258
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">57,602,361
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">45,681,624
</td> <td class="table2column5" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">4,692,818
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">176,815,061
</td></tr></tbody></table>
Team Option
Player Option
Qualifying Offer

The salary figure's come from;
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/index.jsp

The rookie scale came off of the player's union site. I figured them.

DisplacedKnick
06-27-2008, 07:21 AM
I've been wondering where to post my Bird draft analysis and thought it wasn't worth starting a thread - plus as a knicks fan, would anyone read it? Can't comment on how DW did for us because I know nothing about our player - I am worried that not getting Bayless, a player for our position of greatest need (but we have needs at every position) will bite us down the road but I can wait a couple of years on that.

So what did Larry do:

- JO trade
- Portland draft-day trade


JO Trade

The JO trade is a huge positive. Just monstrous. It happened about 2 years too late but it happened. The team is now nobody's - it isn't Danny Granger's but I think (and thought back when I argued against the idiotic Harrington deal) that he has enough ability to where it could become his team.

You have a legit NBA starting PG - IF he can stay healthy.

Your salary situation is so much better it's hard to quantify.

You also got a 2nd 1st rd pick out of the deal. That becomes Roy Hibbert who, IMO, will be a solid rotation/possible starting NBA center for the next 10 or so years, as long as he stays away from injuries.

Really good deal. Granted, if you traded him 2 years ago you'd have gotten a lot more for him, but you can't blame that on Bird.


The Portland Draft-Day Trade

IMO Bird gave some of what he gained back.

First, the player Brandon Rush compares pretty closely to is (drum roll) Kareem Rush. There are actually half a dozen others but from a skill set this isn't bad. The big unknown is effort, desire and motivation. If Brandon has what his little brother lacks, he could be a solid NBA starter.

Their games really are similar though. Coming out of college both had a well-rounded, inside-out game. Kareem was the best player on a good Missouri team. Brandon was either one of the two best (with Arthur) or 2nd best players on an outstanding Kansas team. The one major difference, IIRC (not gonna check profiles) is that I don't remember Kareem being considered much of a defender coming out of college.

Getting Rush and Hibbert based on where you were picking isn't bad - if I'd been told those were the guys you'd end up with before the draft started, I'd have said Bird did OK.

The problem comes with the fact that you had Bayless in hand. Now I don't know all the details of why he dropped like a stone draft day but I get very, very nervous about a top-4 talent dropping that far based on nothing anyone can point a finger at. You could say the Pacers didn't need him since they have TJ - except in the Portland deal you got Jarrett Jack (who I've always liked as a player whose value to a team is more than his numbers) so apparently you did.

There is a chance that Bayless becomes an NBA star. In fact there's a chance - not a great one but a chance - that Bayless becomes that mythical creature - "a franchise player."

You had him - then you traded him for some fairly pedestrian talent, in NBA standards.

I don't get it. Even if you knew he wasn't what you wanted, why not sit on him for a while and see what kind of offers you get? He'll have a monster summer league - with his athleticism it's hard to see where he won't - and there's no reason why, if TJ starts at PG and he becomes the 1st guard off the bench at PG and SG, that he shouldn't impress early on during the season.

A player like Bayless, unless he goes Artest/SJax on you, or becomes Shawne's next shooting partner, isn't going to lose his value very quickly. And again, he could be a very, very good NBA player.

So ultimately I think Bird did good - but for a while he was looking fantastic. He made the JO deal which was a huge positive - just huge. Hard to overstate how big that was. Then he got a gift dumped in his lap - and turned around to regift it.

So Bird had a good week but IMO it could have been much better. We'll see how it works out. If Bayless flames out of the league, it becomes one thing. If Bayless learns to defend and becomes a 20-8 player 2-3 years from now, it becomes a new trivia question - The Pacers actually had Jerry Bayless for about 20 minutes and traded him for Jarrett Jack and Brandon Rush.

You're still a team in a better situation than you were 3 days ago.

owl
06-27-2008, 07:21 AM
Good job Will. What I really like about this draft is the perimeter defense has significantly
improved. That will help the interior defense as well. PF is a little weak and I would like to
have seen another big obtained. Dorsey or Ajinca would have finished it for me.

Putnam
06-27-2008, 07:42 AM
The radio experts' talk isn't worthy any more than our opinions, but this morning when Chad Ford was asked to name the players he thinks will really fit in and help their team, the name he cited was Brandon Rush.

He's evidently more of a sure thing that Westbrook, Bayless, Arthur or several other of the big names in the draft.

duke dynamite
06-27-2008, 07:50 AM
Nice tidbit, Will. You did a great job!

And yes, the sun is shining in Pacers' Country.

Plax80
06-27-2008, 08:56 AM
I like to see how things look written down so I did some figuring and thought I would share. Of course some of this won't take effect until July 9.

They have to cut at least one player so I look for Bird to make a couple more moves. One would be to either trade Tinsley, or buy him out. Plus we could use another power forward, so we could have 2 more trades.

As is, I think Bird has done a superb job. If the Pacers just buy Tinsley out, and then stand pat, Bird has accomplished a lot!

1] He's made us more competitive.

2] If Shawne can move to the 4 spot, he's balanced our roster.

3] If he buys Tinsley out for a minimum of $18m. then the Pacer's likely won't go over the tax line.

4] And, he's set it up so we will have money to give to Granger a raise.

Not bad for a dumb old boy from French Lick like some of you mistakingly believe!:happydanc:happydanc:happydanc

Sixteen Man Roster
C 6'11 Jeff Foster
C 7'0 Rasho Nesterovic
C 7'2 Roy Hibbert
F 6'11 Troy Murphy
F 6'10 Maceo Baston
F 6'10 Josh McRoberts
F 6'8 Dranny Granger
F 6'6 Marquis Daniels
F 6'9 Shawne Williams
G 6'9 Mike Dunleavy
G 6'7 Brandon Rush
G 6'6 Stephen Graham
G 6'0 T.J. Ford
G 6'3 Jarrett Jack
G 6'1 Travis Diener
G 6'3 Jamaal Tinsley

Depth Chart ?
5C 6'11 Foster-7'2 Hibbert-7'0 Rasho
4F 6'11 Murphy-6'10 Baston-6'10 McRoberts
3F 6'8 Granger-6'6 Daniels-6'9 Williams
2G 6'9 Dun-6'7 Rush-6'6 Graham
1G 6'0 Ford-6'3 Jack-6'1 Diener-6'3 Tinsley

Main Rotation ?
5C 6'11 Foster/7'2 Hibbert
4F 6'11 Murphy
3F 6'8 Granger
2G 6'9 Dun/6'7 Rush
1G 6'0 Ford/6'3 Jack

Salaries
<table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="709"><tbody><tr><td class="table1column1" valign="top" width="24%">Name
</td> <td class="table1column2" valign="top" width="15%"> 08/09
</td> <td class="table1column3" valign="top" width="15%">09/10
</td> <td class="table1column4" valign="top" width="15%"> 10/11
</td> <td class="table1column5" valign="top" width="15%"> 11/12
</td> <td class="table1column6" valign="top" width="16%"> Total
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
<table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" height="737" width="705"><tbody><tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Troy Murphy
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$10,126,984
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$11,047,619
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$11,968,254
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> ------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">33,142,857
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Mike Dunleavy
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$9,000,000
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$9,780,992
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$10,561,984
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">29,342,976
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">T.J. Ford
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$8,275,000
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$8,775,000
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$8,775,000
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">25,825,000
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">R. Nesterovic
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$8,400,000
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">-------------
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">8,400,000
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Marquis Daniels
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$6,864,200
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$7,354,500
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">14,218,700
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Jamaal Tinsley
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$6,750,000
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$7,200,000
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$7,650,000
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">21,600,000
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Jeff Foster
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$5,500,000
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">-------------
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">5,500,000
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Danny Granger
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$2,329,805
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$3,289,685
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">5,619,490
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Jarrett Jack
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$2,002,623
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$2,899,798
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">4,902,421
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Maceo Baston
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,976,400
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">-------------
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">1,976,400
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Brandon Rush
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,661,300
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,785,900
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,910,500
</td> <td class="table2column5" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$2,535,234
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">7,892,934
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Travis Diener
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,620,000
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,740,000
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">7,892,934
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">S Williams
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,572,960
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$2,416,067
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$3,411,486
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">7,400,513
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Roy Hibbert
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,221,200
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,312,800
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,404,400
</td> <td class="table2column5" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$2,157,584
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">6,095,984
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Stephen Graham
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$826,269
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">--------------
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">826,269
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Josh McRoberts
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$711,517
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">--------------
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">711,517
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" align="right" valign="top" width="24%">
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">68,838,258
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">57,602,361
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">45,681,624
</td> <td class="table2column5" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">4,692,818
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">176,815,061
</td></tr></tbody></table>
Team Option
Player Option
Qualifying Offer

The salary figure's come from;
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/index.jsp

The rookie scale came off of the player's union site. I figured them.

You have to either be related or a Pacer FO employee.

Not only did he NOT do a great job..............his 2 day performance ranked 30th out of 30 GMs.

He went to bed Tuesday convinced 'his guy" (a PG or a post).....("Its one or the other) would be there at 11.

Then when it became "his guy" wouldn't be there........it sets of a wild flurry of activity where he ended up taking 7 average to below average players for Jermaine O'neal and Jerryd Bayless.

When Maceo Baston (with all due respect maceo) is your most talented acquisition from two deals involving a 5 time all star and a guy who was ranked as high as 3rd by some coming into the draft.........than well........your spin machine is on overdrive to call it good work. CDR lasted until the middle of rd 2........Brandon might have joined him if Larry Legend wasn't so darn much smarter than everyone else.

Lets trade Danny Granger and Dunleavy for 7 2nd rd picks in next years draft.......it would net about the same results.

The upside to this is a couple of things for me , however:

1. I like teh Hibbert pick.........he could be a Chief or a Mutumbo...........or David Harrison.............at 17.......why not.

2. I like Shawne Williams at PF and have said so for awhile............he has to be considered a PF for 20 minutes/night at this point.

3. we should be picking in the top 5 of the next couple of drats, so talent should be coming eventually.

QuickRelease
06-27-2008, 09:04 AM
You have to either be related or a Pacer FO employee.

Not only did he NOT do a great job..............his 2 day performance ranked 30th out of 30 GMs.

He went to bed Tuesday convinced 'his guy" (a PG or a post).....("Its one or the other) would be there at 11.

Then when it became "his guy" wouldn't be there........it sets of a wild flurry of activity where he ended up taking 7 average to below average players for Jermaine O'neal and Jerryd Bayless.

When Maceo Baston (with all due respect maceo) is your most talented acquisition from two deals involving a 5 time all star and a guy who was ranked as high as 3rd by some coming into the draft.........than well........your spin machine is on overdrive to call it good work. CDR lasted until the middle of rd 2........Brandon might have joined him if Larry Legend wasn't so darn much smarter than everyone else.

Lets trade Danny Granger and Dunleavy for 7 2nd rd picks in next years draft.......it would net about the same results.

The upside to this is a couple of things for me , however:

1. I like teh Hibbert pick.........he could be a Chief or a Mutumbo...........or David Harrison.............at 17.......why not.

2. I like Shawne Williams at PF and have said so for awhile............he has to be considered a PF for 20 minutes/night at this point.

3. we should be picking in the top 5 of the next couple of drats, so talent should be coming eventually.

Dude, what would have made you happy in this draft? The moves Larry made has restored some semblance of hope for the future. If you like Bayless better, I get that. But to say Larry did the worst job of any GM across the league is ridiculous.

RWB
06-27-2008, 09:11 AM
You have to either be related or a Pacer FO employee.


I assume you left out a smiley or something? Seems like emotions are still running a little high today.

Slick Pinkham
06-27-2008, 09:17 AM
When Maceo Baston (with all due respect maceo) is your most talented acquisition from two deals involving a 5 time all star and a guy who was ranked as high as 3rd by some coming into the draft.........than well........your spin machine is on overdrive to call it good work.


Nobody on this planet considers Maceo Baston the best player obtained in these deals. Not the best, second best, or third best even. He was a matching salary throw-in, nothing more. He would probably have to beat out McRoberts to make the team, frankly.

Mourning
06-27-2008, 09:44 AM
I've been wondering where to post my Bird draft analysis and thought it wasn't worth starting a thread - plus as a knicks fan, would anyone read it? Can't comment on how DW did for us because I know nothing about our player - I am worried that not getting Bayless, a player for our position of greatest need (but we have needs at every position) will bite us down the road but I can wait a couple of years on that.

So what did Larry do:

- JO trade
- Portland draft-day trade


JO Trade

The JO trade is a huge positive. Just monstrous. It happened about 2 years too late but it happened. The team is now nobody's - it isn't Danny Granger's but I think (and thought back when I argued against the idiotic Harrington deal) that he has enough ability to where it could become his team.

You have a legit NBA starting PG - IF he can stay healthy.

Your salary situation is so much better it's hard to quantify.

You also got a 2nd 1st rd pick out of the deal. That becomes Roy Hibbert who, IMO, will be a solid rotation/possible starting NBA center for the next 10 or so years, as long as he stays away from injuries.

Really good deal. Granted, if you traded him 2 years ago you'd have gotten a lot more for him, but you can't blame that on Bird.


The Portland Draft-Day Trade

IMO Bird gave some of what he gained back.

First, the player Brandon Rush compares pretty closely to is (drum roll) Kareem Rush. There are actually half a dozen others but from a skill set this isn't bad. The big unknown is effort, desire and motivation. If Brandon has what his little brother lacks, he could be a solid NBA starter.

Their games really are similar though. Coming out of college both had a well-rounded, inside-out game. Kareem was the best player on a good Missouri team. Brandon was either one of the two best (with Arthur) or 2nd best players on an outstanding Kansas team. The one major difference, IIRC (not gonna check profiles) is that I don't remember Kareem being considered much of a defender coming out of college.

Getting Rush and Hibbert based on where you were picking isn't bad - if I'd been told those were the guys you'd end up with before the draft started, I'd have said Bird did OK.

The problem comes with the fact that you had Bayless in hand. Now I don't know all the details of why he dropped like a stone draft day but I get very, very nervous about a top-4 talent dropping that far based on nothing anyone can point a finger at. You could say the Pacers didn't need him since they have TJ - except in the Portland deal you got Jarrett Jack (who I've always liked as a player whose value to a team is more than his numbers) so apparently you did.

There is a chance that Bayless becomes an NBA star. In fact there's a chance - not a great one but a chance - that Bayless becomes that mythical creature - "a franchise player."

You had him - then you traded him for some fairly pedestrian talent, in NBA standards.

I don't get it. Even if you knew he wasn't what you wanted, why not sit on him for a while and see what kind of offers you get? He'll have a monster summer league - with his athleticism it's hard to see where he won't - and there's no reason why, if TJ starts at PG and he becomes the 1st guard off the bench at PG and SG, that he shouldn't impress early on during the season.

A player like Bayless, unless he goes Artest/SJax on you, or becomes Shawne's next shooting partner, isn't going to lose his value very quickly. And again, he could be a very, very good NBA player.

So ultimately I think Bird did good - but for a while he was looking fantastic. He made the JO deal which was a huge positive - just huge. Hard to overstate how big that was. Then he got a gift dumped in his lap - and turned around to regift it.

So Bird had a good week but IMO it could have been much better. We'll see how it works out. If Bayless flames out of the league, it becomes one thing. If Bayless learns to defend and becomes a 20-8 player 2-3 years from now, it becomes a new trivia question - The Pacers actually had Jerry Bayless for about 20 minutes and traded him for Jarrett Jack and Brandon Rush.

You're still a team in a better situation than you were 3 days ago.

My sentiments exactly! We are better then a few days ago, no question about it. But, I refuse to pulled over to the positive side of that second trade just yet.

Rush needs to be a very, very good defender for me to make this a winner for us or Bayless has to really dissappoint compared to what some scouts and analysts had in mind for him. But, I chilled down from going all out berzerk earlier on last night.

We'll see what happens. We are in a better state now then a few days back. Thats the positive.

Trader Joe
06-27-2008, 10:08 AM
When Maceo Baston (with all due respect maceo) is your most talented acquisition from two deals involving a 5 time all star and a guy who was ranked as high as 3rd by some coming into the draft.........than well........your spin machine is on overdrive to call it good work. CDR lasted until the middle of rd 2........Brandon might have joined him if Larry Legend wasn't so darn much smarter than everyone else.



Dude, I gotta ask you a question out of these two pictures, which one is a basketball?

http://www.richey.k12.mt.us/Basketball%20Photos/basketball%20photo.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/177/417382763_4a4929a190.jpg?v=0

Tom White
06-27-2008, 10:28 AM
When Maceo Baston (with all due respect maceo) is your most talented acquisition from two deals

You absolutely cannot be serious with this comment. Have you EVER watched any of the other guys play?

Hicks
06-27-2008, 11:06 AM
I'm giving Plax80 a while to calm down, but I think he's a troll, and I think specifically he's a familiar troll.

LoneGranger33
06-27-2008, 11:10 AM
I know somebody asked around about trading Tinsley on Realgm...if someone could do that for Marquis Daniels, I'd be pleased to see the results.

count55
06-27-2008, 11:13 AM
Plax80, I can't think of anything more damaging to your position or point of view than the stream of nonsense that comes from your keyboard, so I will simply quote you.

Based on the last couple of days, I suspect this will be a consistently effective way to refute your arguments.


You have to either be related or a Pacer FO employee.

Not only did he NOT do a great job..............his 2 day performance ranked 30th out of 30 GMs.

He went to bed Tuesday convinced 'his guy" (a PG or a post).....("Its one or the other) would be there at 11.

Then when it became "his guy" wouldn't be there........it sets of a wild flurry of activity where he ended up taking 7 average to below average players for Jermaine O'neal and Jerryd Bayless.

When Maceo Baston (with all due respect maceo) is your most talented acquisition from two deals involving a 5 time all star and a guy who was ranked as high as 3rd by some coming into the draft.........than well........your spin machine is on overdrive to call it good work. CDR lasted until the middle of rd 2........Brandon might have joined him if Larry Legend wasn't so darn much smarter than everyone else.

Lets trade Danny Granger and Dunleavy for 7 2nd rd picks in next years draft.......it would net about the same results.

The upside to this is a couple of things for me , however:

1. I like teh Hibbert pick.........he could be a Chief or a Mutumbo...........or David Harrison.............at 17.......why not.

2. I like Shawne Williams at PF and have said so for awhile............he has to be considered a PF for 20 minutes/night at this point.

3. we should be picking in the top 5 of the next couple of drats, so talent should be coming eventually.

count55
06-27-2008, 11:18 AM
Apologies, Will, for my other thread...I didn't see this one. Though mine had some differences, I probably shouldn't have split the conversation like that.

Great post, but I actually believe that we're already going to be below the tax. Last year's figure was just under $69 mil, and it's not unreasonable to expect a 5% increase, putting it around $70.7.

Justin Tyme
06-27-2008, 11:23 AM
[QUOTE=Will Galen;745335][FONT=Arial]

Not bad for a dumb old boy from French Lick like some of you mistakingly believe!QUOTE]

How much of that is Bird and how much is that of Morway?;)

count55
06-27-2008, 11:41 AM
[FONT=Arial]

Not bad for a dumb old boy from French Lick like some of you mistakingly believe!

How much of that is Bird and how much is that of Morway?;)

Well, if we're going to crucify Bird for any bad move, we need to give him credit for anything we think is good.

LoneGranger33
06-27-2008, 11:46 AM
Anyone think we can get Joe Smith for Quis or Jamaal?

Justin Tyme
06-27-2008, 11:50 AM
I'm giving Plax80 a while to calm down, but I think he's a troll, and I think specifically he's a familiar troll.



If this is the same Plax80 that posted over on the Star board, he was a regular poster and never this extreme. Oh yeah, he was a big fan of the Pacers drafting Nick Young last year.

Justin Tyme
06-27-2008, 11:54 AM
Well, if we're going to crucify Bird for any bad move, we need to give him credit for anything we think is good.

I respectfully reserve the right not to be classified in the "WE" category! And I am quite capable of making up my mind on Bird positive and negative issues w/o being lumped in to the "WE" category. Until it's proved it's Bird's decisions, I will continue to view Bird as I have the last 4 years.

I'm more than willing to change my perception of Bird, the GM, with valid proof the decisions were his. Until then, I reserve the right to feel as I currently do about Bird's ability to run the Pacers.

Plax80
06-27-2008, 11:59 AM
Nobody on this planet considers Maceo Baston the best player obtained in these deals. Not the best, second best, or third best even. He was a matching salary throw-in, nothing more. He would probably have to beat out McRoberts to make the team, frankly.

No one will ever be proved right or wrong on this , but I'll take Maceo baston or kareem Rush against anybody we acquired or drafted the last two days in a game of 1 on 1.

TJ Ford might be too quick for either and beat them, but he would be the only one.

Marquis Daniels is light years ahead of Brandon Rush...............he can actually handle the basketball.........something thats usually a good trait for a guard to have.

I don't love Bayless, but I really hate the Rush pick.

JayRedd
06-27-2008, 12:13 PM
Anyone think we can get Joe Smith for Quis or Jamaal?

Probably neither. Definitely not Jamaal.

More importantly, check out the first guy on the Bull's salary list:

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/cavaliers.jsp

Bball
06-27-2008, 12:14 PM
How much of that is Bird and how much is that of Morway?;)

How much of it is a clear vision and direction without the FO being stuck in the past?

The problem with the two-headed monster was there was a very real sense that they weren't on the same page at all. Everything was 'push-pull'.

So far, the pairing of Bird and Morway seem to indicate guys that will make things happen.

As long as they are on the same page, it could be a fine pairing. It won't matter who did what or where the ideas come from.

-Bball :dance:

Justin Tyme
06-27-2008, 12:16 PM
Anyone think we can get Joe Smith for Quis or Jamaal?


I'd like to send Quis and Williams to Seattle for Chris Wilcox. The salaries will match up, plus Quis, like Wilcox, is in what can be considered the last year of their contracts. Chris is expiring,and Quis is a team option. Portland would be getting Williams which could be a good player for them in the future. W/o a doubt the Pacers could use Wilcox as a big.

Plax80
06-27-2008, 12:17 PM
Just write it down and look at it for more than 2 seconds:

JO and Bayless and Ike

for

Brandon Rush
Hibbert
Ford
Rasho
Maceo
Jack
McRoberts

How many other 3 for 7 transactions paid off for the teams getting 7 players.

I'll ask for the 5th time.................for anyone to name one other NBA team besides the Knicks who swap entire rosters with us..........

NAME ONE !!

You Can't, because there isn't one.

Have I contradicted myself...........maybe as much as I have rambled ...its possible.

I like some of our players on our roster based on how much they get paid, their relative worth and the role that they fill:

In order:
1. Granger
2. Dunleavy
3. Shawne
4. Foster
5. Daniels
6. Hibbert
7. Jack

The rest I don't like at all for a variety of different reasons. And of the 7 I like, only two are starters for a quality NBA team with Williams and Hibbert being potential starters at some point in their careers.

jack and Daniels and Foster are nice role players coming off the bench.

JHcutt18
06-27-2008, 12:20 PM
Here is just a few videos of the new guys....

Brandon Rush http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYW6MwMqZj0&amp;feature=related

Jarrett Jack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU7u4YxKnTI

Nothing on Hibbert because, 1 there is nothing worth watching, and 2 I hate the pick.

Justin Tyme
06-27-2008, 12:26 PM
It won't matter who did what or where the ideas come from.-Bball :dance:

It does when you are ownership! If the #2 guy is where the ideas and success if coming from, then there isn't any reason to pay a figurehead for not doing his job. More importantly, you elevate the #2 into the head position, since that's where the ideas, success, and results are stemming from thus saving money too. JMOAA

2minutes twowa
06-27-2008, 12:40 PM
Here is just a few videos of the new guys....

Brandon Rush http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYW6MwMqZj0&amp;feature=related

Jarrett Jack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU7u4YxKnTI

Nothing on Hibbert because, 1 there is nothing worth watching, and 2 I hate the pick.

Rush's game does remind me a lot of Paul Pierce when he was at Kansas and I love that Jack was attacking the basket in most of his highlights.

RWB
06-27-2008, 12:54 PM
It does when you are ownership! If the #2 guy is where the ideas and success if coming from, then there isn't any reason to pay a figurehead for not doing his job. JMOAA

Morway was hired to manage the Simon's money JT. Bird (and I'm not a fan) is the visionary.

Speed
06-27-2008, 12:56 PM
Rush is silky smooth.

And I have a feeling that you usually here "Fan Favorite" in front of Jarret Jacks name.

We'll see.

Justin Tyme
06-27-2008, 12:56 PM
Just write it down and look at it for more than 2 seconds:

JO and Bayless and Ike

for

Brandon Rush
Hibbert
Ford
Rasho
Maceo
Jack
McRoberts

How many other 3 for 7 transactions paid off for the teams getting 7 players.

I'll ask for the 5th time.................for anyone to name one other NBA team besides the Knicks who swap entire rosters with us..........

NAME ONE !!

You Can't, because there isn't one.

Have I contradicted myself...........maybe as much as I have rambled ...its possible.

I like some of our players on our roster based on how much they get paid, their relative worth and the role that they fill:

In order:
1. Granger
2. Dunleavy
3. Shawne
4. Foster
5. Daniels
6. Hibbert
7. Jack

The rest I don't like at all for a variety of different reasons. And of the 7 I like, only two are starters for a quality NBA team with Williams and Hibbert being potential starters at some point in their careers.

jack and Daniels and Foster are nice role players coming off the bench.


MEMPHIS. I'll bet you the Pacers win more games than they do next seaon! Have you seen the reported trade between Memphis and Minnie that is on Hoopshype?

I understand your frustration of others not seeing or agreeing with your view. I went throught the samething with why we needed to trade JO and the idea of his big expiring next year. The JO trade isn't that bad, nor is the Portland trade... if it could be expanded to give the Pacers more in return.

I'm not doing cartwheels or backflips over what I consider as a fleecing of Bird trading Bayless for Rush under the current trade proposal, BUT it's not like we gave him away for Josh McRoberts. I'm looking at it in terms that the trade is helping to fix the porous area of perimeter "D" with Rush, Ford, and Jack. It gives a nice b/u PG with experience and size in Jack.

Yes, like many other posters, I'm not pleased with the possiblity of giving away a future Allstar in Bayless. I'm trying to take the view of one piece isn't more valuable than the whole. The whole being all the new players making the team better than one player. Maybe if you looked at that way, it might ease your frustrations. JMOAA

Did Nick meet your expectations as a rookie this past season?

Speed
06-27-2008, 12:59 PM
Also, why does everyone think Kareem will be back, there's no need or place for him on the roster, maybe if you move Dunleavy and Marquis.

If I was Kareem I'd want to go somewhere I can get minutes. He'll play behind his little brother here.

Kareem is NOT under contract.

...and I seriously doubt he will be for the Pacers.

Justin Tyme
06-27-2008, 01:26 PM
Morway was hired to manage the Simon's money JT. Bird (and I'm not a fan) is the visionary.

I understand Morway's the financial man, but I have to believe he's more than that. I'm not sure visionary is how I'd describe Bird!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't call me JT, for obvious reasons, Justin will do fine. Thank you.

RWB
06-27-2008, 01:30 PM
I understand Morway's the financial man, but I have to believe he's more than that. I'm not sure visionary is how I'd describe Bird!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't call me JT, for obvious reasons, Justin will do fine. Thank you.

I understand completely.:D

Will Galen
06-27-2008, 01:39 PM
I understand Morway's the financial man, but I have to believe he's more than that. I'm not sure visionary is how I'd describe Bird!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't call me JT, for obvious reasons, Justin will do fine. Thank you.

Oh, no, no, no, that's too much to type. I'm going to shorten it to just the last two letters of your forum name and I suggest everyone do the same.

Since86
06-27-2008, 01:48 PM
I disagree with DK that Brandon is a player like Kareem.

Obviously they're going to share traits, because it is genetic. But the type of shooters they are varies.

Kareem doesn't come off screens all that well. He has shoddy footwork, and by that I mean he has to hop into position, usually backwards, to get his feet set. It's slow and just poor fundamentals. It's slow because he has to recieve the ball first. Yes, he's a catch and shoot player, but a slow one.

Brandon swivels, or pivets, on a set foot while the ball is in flight. He can go directly from recieving the ball to getting the shot off.

He's also far and away more athletic. Plays excellent on ball defense, not out of pure desire but out of correct technique. The ability for him to play good defense stems from his form.

MyFavMartin
06-27-2008, 01:58 PM
Probably neither. Definitely not Jamaal.

More importantly, check out the first guy on the Bull's salary list:

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/cavaliers.jsp

Nice blog.

Don't bother washing the underwear.... just throw it out.

Plax80
06-27-2008, 02:14 PM
MEMPHIS. I'll bet you the Pacers win more games than they do next seaon! Have you seen the reported trade between Memphis and Minnie that is on Hoopshype?

I understand your frustration of others not seeing or agreeing with your view. I went throught the samething with why we needed to trade JO and the idea of his big expiring next year. The JO trade isn't that bad, nor is the Portland trade... if it could be expanded to give the Pacers more in return.

I'm not doing cartwheels or backflips over what I consider as a fleecing of Bird trading Bayless for Rush under the current trade proposal, BUT it's not like we gave him away for Josh McRoberts. I'm looking at it in terms that the trade is helping to fix the porous area of perimeter "D" with Rush, Ford, and Jack. It gives a nice b/u PG with experience and size in Jack.

Yes, like many other posters, I'm not pleased with the possiblity of giving away a future Allstar in Bayless. I'm trying to take the view of one piece isn't more valuable than the whole. The whole being all the new players making the team better than one player. Maybe if you looked at that way, it might ease your frustrations. JMOAA

Did Nick meet your expectations as a rookie this past season?

I think Young had a pretty good rookie season. I didn't see him play much but his #s looked okay. He is the same type of player that OJ Mayo is hwo everyone loved from this draft.........so we'll see who the better pro is long term...........Brandon or Nick........

Good Memory.

As for Memphis---

I din't say ...name a team that wins fewer games than us.........I said name the team that would trade us rosters..........

You think they would trade a roster with :

Conley
Mayo
gay
Marc Gasol
Warrick
Darko
Lowry
Crittenden (who everyone on here loved last year)

for ours ???
They wouldn't trade any of their top 4 guys for anyone on our roster.

And they spend a gazillion dollars less than we do.

PaceBalls
06-27-2008, 02:58 PM
One thing I have been thinking about is how this team will really test JO'bs coaching with his substitutions and rotations. We have a lot of guys to match up against any opponent, but also who have glaring weaknesses. TJ vs big guards, Hibbert vs athletic big guys etc..

I'm looking forward to it and I bet JO'b is too. It will definately be a make or break it year for him.

LoneGranger33
06-27-2008, 03:01 PM
Crittenden (who everyone on here loved last year)


We all wish we could have JC Superstar, no doubt about that.

PaceBalls
06-27-2008, 03:02 PM
I think Young had a pretty good rookie season. I didn't see him play much but his #s looked okay. He is the same type of player that OJ Mayo is hwo everyone loved from this draft.........so we'll see who the better pro is long term...........Brandon or Nick........

Good Memory.

As for Memphis---

I din't say ...name a team that wins fewer games than us.........I said name the team that would trade us rosters..........

You think they would trade a roster with :

Conley
Mayo
gay
Marc Gasol
Warrick
Darko
Lowry
Crittenden (who everyone on here loved last year)

for ours ???
They wouldn't trade any of their top 4 guys for anyone on our roster.

And they spend a gazillion dollars less than we do.

/cough not many here loved JC superstar

You are seriously selling our team short before they even play a game. Get a grip man lol...
This team is not that bad and I think we will make the playoffs, and go above .500

Of course you seem to think Baston is a better player than TJ Ford... so it will be hard to reason with you I think. But TJ will be the biggest difference maker, this guy is incredible and is going to be awesome in JO'bs system.

Plax80
06-27-2008, 05:14 PM
The Baston comments are tongue in cheek although they serve to emphasize my point that guys like him, Kareem, and even Steven graham are light years ahead of where most of these 19 year old draftees are right now.

They've been playing professional basketball for years as their full time job.......they have more passion and hunger since other than kareem they haven't made their millions yet...........their bodies are much more mature and overall I really do think in a game of 1 o 1 they would all kill Brandon Rush which was my real point.

We drafted a guy at 11 that will be our 5th or 6th best SG and 3rd or 4th best SF depending on who comes to camp on a team that has only has ONE REAL STRENGTH......the guys who play SG and SF ???

If he had some sort of skill set that the others didn't already possess........like an ability to create for himself or an ability to draw fouls.........or an ability to force mismatches........than I could possibly see investing your top pick on a guy like that even if he takes awhile to develop..........the team isn't going anywhere soon anyway.

But this guy has none of those attributes..........about the only thing we feel good about with him is that he is a good stand alone jump shooter from 18-20 feet and we think he might be able to guard some people on the perimeter.........MAYBE.

As for Ford.......NO........I'm not thrilled about him either.............he isn't an elite player at his position......he does have an injury history.........he makes a lot of money considering his limited production over his career..........he is small and slight..............and he has a very inconsistent jump shot with poor mechanics.........and in the most recent playoffs shot a combined 2-17 in games 1 and 2 ad was almost always on the bench in Toronto's most important moments (last 8 minutes) of any big game.

He is quick , he does have a winning background and attitude and his name isn't Jamaal Tinsley which seems to be his biggest asset to Pacer fans..........which I don't totally disagree with.

I just think that the week got away from Bird. I think his inexperience showed in how he reacted to what was happenning around him. He didn't like the Ford deal on Sunday but by Wednesday...he signs off on it.......was it really the medical reports..........or was it Charlotte deciding to take DJ at 9 ??

And the Portland trade was worse. Bayless was much more highly thought of .....whether Bird thought that or not. You can find a Brandon Rush an most D_League teams...........there aren't too many Monta Ellis or Gilbert Arenas type players in the league and their value is high.

Plax80
06-27-2008, 05:16 PM
We all wish we could have JC Superstar, no doubt about that.

I was on the Star message boards last year ........my mistake.

But I'd say 90% of those posters were all over Crittenden last year.

avoidingtheclowns
06-27-2008, 06:22 PM
I was on the Star message boards last year ........my mistake.

But I'd say 90% of those posters were all over Crittenden last year.

the only ones here who loved JC were the lakers that flocked here to tell us they'd have trouble giving him up in a trade for JO.

MyFavMartin
07-01-2008, 12:17 PM
I like to see how things look written down so I did some figuring and thought I would share. Of course some of this won't take effect until July 9.

They have to cut at least one player so I look for Bird to make a couple more moves. One would be to either trade Tinsley, or buy him out. Plus we could use another power forward, so we could have 2 more trades.

As is, I think Bird has done a superb job. If the Pacers just buy Tinsley out, and then stand pat, Bird has accomplished a lot!

1] He's made us more competitive.

2] If Shawne can move to the 4 spot, he's balanced our roster.

3] If he buys Tinsley out for a minimum of $18m. then the Pacer's likely won't go over the tax line.

4] And, he's set it up so we will have money to give to Granger a raise.

Not bad for a dumb old boy from French Lick like some of you mistakingly believe!:happydanc:happydanc:happydanc

Sixteen Man Roster
C 6'11 Jeff Foster
C 7'0 Rasho Nesterovic
C 7'2 Roy Hibbert
F 6'11 Troy Murphy
F 6'10 Maceo Baston
F 6'10 Josh McRoberts
F 6'8 Dranny Granger
F 6'6 Marquis Daniels
F 6'9 Shawne Williams
G 6'9 Mike Dunleavy
G 6'7 Brandon Rush
G 6'6 Stephen Graham
G 6'0 T.J. Ford
G 6'3 Jarrett Jack
G 6'1 Travis Diener
G 6'3 Jamaal Tinsley

Depth Chart ?
5C 6'11 Foster-7'2 Hibbert-7'0 Rasho
4F 6'11 Murphy-6'10 Baston-6'10 McRoberts
3F 6'8 Granger-6'6 Daniels-6'9 Williams
2G 6'9 Dun-6'7 Rush-6'6 Graham
1G 6'0 Ford-6'3 Jack-6'1 Diener-6'3 Tinsley

Main Rotation ?
5C 6'11 Foster/7'2 Hibbert
4F 6'11 Murphy
3F 6'8 Granger
2G 6'9 Dun/6'7 Rush
1G 6'0 Ford/6'3 Jack

Salaries
<table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="709"><tbody><tr><td class="table1column1" valign="top" width="24%">Name
</td> <td class="table1column2" valign="top" width="15%"> 08/09
</td> <td class="table1column3" valign="top" width="15%">09/10
</td> <td class="table1column4" valign="top" width="15%"> 10/11
</td> <td class="table1column5" valign="top" width="15%"> 11/12
</td> <td class="table1column6" valign="top" width="16%"> Total
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
<table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" height="737" width="705"><tbody><tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Troy Murphy
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$10,126,984
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$11,047,619
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$11,968,254
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> ------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">33,142,857
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Mike Dunleavy
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$9,000,000
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$9,780,992
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$10,561,984
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">29,342,976
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">T.J. Ford
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$8,275,000
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$8,775,000
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$8,775,000
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">25,825,000
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">R. Nesterovic
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$8,400,000
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">-------------
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">8,400,000
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Marquis Daniels
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$6,864,200
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$7,354,500
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">14,218,700
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Jamaal Tinsley
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$6,750,000
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$7,200,000
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$7,650,000
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">21,600,000
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Jeff Foster
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$5,500,000
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">-------------
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">5,500,000
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Danny Granger
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$2,329,805
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$3,289,685
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">5,619,490
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Jarrett Jack
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$2,002,623
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$2,899,798
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">4,902,421
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Maceo Baston
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,976,400
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">-------------
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">1,976,400
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Brandon Rush
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,661,300
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,785,900
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,910,500
</td> <td class="table2column5" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$2,535,234
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">7,892,934
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Travis Diener
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,620,000
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,740,000
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">7,892,934
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">S Williams
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,572,960
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$2,416,067
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$3,411,486
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">7,400,513
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Roy Hibbert
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,221,200
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,312,800
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$1,404,400
</td> <td class="table2column5" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$2,157,584
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">6,095,984
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Stephen Graham
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$826,269
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">--------------
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">826,269
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" valign="top" width="24%">Josh McRoberts
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">$711,517
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">--------------
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%"> --------------
</td> <td class="table2column5" valign="top" width="15%"> -------------
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">711,517
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table2column1" align="right" valign="top" width="24%">
</td> <td class="table2column2" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">68,838,258
</td> <td class="table2column3" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">57,602,361
</td> <td class="table2column4" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">45,681,624
</td> <td class="table2column5" align="right" valign="top" width="15%">4,692,818
</td> <td class="table2column6" align="center" valign="top" width="16%">176,815,061
</td></tr></tbody></table>
Team Option
Player Option
Qualifying Offer

The salary figure's come from;
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/index.jsp

The rookie scale came off of the player's union site. I figured them.


Wanted to bump this thread to keep the Pacers contract situation on hand and one the 1st page.

If the Pacers decline MArquis' option as well as Shawne's, that saves another 10 mil next year for free agency in 09/10. Travis might opt out as well to get more PT...

Pacers could be at ~44 mil before resigning Danny. If the lux cap is ~69 mil, that would mean 26 mil. How much to resign/extend Danny?

d_c
07-01-2008, 12:20 PM
Just write it down and look at it for more than 2 seconds:

JO and Bayless and Ike

for

Brandon Rush
Hibbert
Ford
Rasho
Maceo
Jack
McRoberts

How many other 3 for 7 transactions paid off for the teams getting 7 players.



Really, it's a 3 (or 2 depending on how you look at Ike) for 4 trade.

Rush, Hibbert, Ford and Jack are the only guys who matter to the Pacers. The other 3 guys are just some extra pairs of used sneakers.

Hicks
07-01-2008, 12:24 PM
Rasho's a wildcard in the discussion of, "Part of the trade, or just a pair of sneakers."

Tyrion
07-01-2008, 12:24 PM
Really, it's a 3 (or 2 depending on how you look at Ike) for 4 trade.

Rush, Hibbert, Ford and Jack are the only guys who matter to the Pacers. The other 3 guys are just some extra pairs of used sneakers.

I'm not sure I agree with that...Rasho will be the best center we have this year including Hibbert and Foster. I think that being around him will be good for Hibbert's development, and hopefully when Rasho is gone in a year Hibbert will be ready to take over.

d_c
07-01-2008, 12:26 PM
I'm not sure I agree with that...Rasho will be the best center we have this year including Hibbert and Foster. I think that being around him will be good for Hibbert's development, and hopefully when Rasho is gone in a year Hibbert will be ready to take over.

Dude, it's Rasho Nesterovic.

He doesn't matter.

MyFavMartin
07-01-2008, 12:30 PM
Really, it's a 3 (or 2 depending on how you look at Ike) for 4 trade.

Rush, Hibbert, Ford and Jack are the only guys who matter to the Pacers. The other 3 guys are just some extra pairs of used sneakers.

I think Rasho will contribute this year and may even start, but obviously his expiring contract is valuable.

duke dynamite
07-01-2008, 12:32 PM
I think Rasho or McBob are going to get cut.

iPacer, i just noticed this...our avatar is the same photo.

MyFavMartin
07-01-2008, 12:36 PM
I think Rasho or McBob are going to get cut.

iPacer, i just noticed this...our avatar is the same photo.


Since we're avatar twins, can you telepathically inform me why Rasho would be the one cut? Isn't his expiring contract valuable come next trade deadline as well as having a guy who could help a teams in the playoffs? Or is this another one of your attempts at humor, duke?

Naptown_Seth
07-01-2008, 12:43 PM
Morway was hired to manage the Simon's money JT. Bird (and I'm not a fan) is the visionary.
I don't think it's that simple. Morway has great knowledge of players as well. Just look at his own blog describing the Orlando camp or what he's had to say on ESPN or 1070. He's not parroting Bird if for no other reason than the grammar is correct. ;)

duke dynamite
07-01-2008, 01:14 PM
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=greytitle vAlign=top width=250 height=15>Featured Player</TD><TD vAlign=top width=10 rowSpan=2>http://www.realgm.com/images/affiliates/spacer.gif</TD><TD class=ltbluetitle vAlign=top width=180 height=15></TD><TD vAlign=top width=10 rowSpan=2>http://www.realgm.com/images/affiliates/spacer.gif</TD><TD class=ltbluetitle vAlign=top width=180 height=15></TD></TR><TR><TD class=greybg vAlign=top width=250>http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Murphy_Troy_ind.jpg
Troy Murphy

Jersey No: 3
Height: 6' 11''
Weight: 245
DOB: Feb 5, 1980
College: Notre Dame

Notes: Troy has not played a game for Pacers in 2007/08

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


This is from RealGM. Don't they mean 2008-2009?

Mourning
07-01-2008, 01:18 PM
I don't think Rasho would get cut at all. I think he might be dangled near the trading deadline for "something" or we will let his contract expire.

I think letting several contracts expire is a good idea to beying able to re-sign our core players and the most important back ups. That's also why I'm not in favour of trading both Marquis and Rasho, but one of them, letting the other ones contract expire, while re-signing Foster to a smaller deal that maybe ends his career with us.

duke dynamite
07-01-2008, 01:19 PM
Since we're avatar twins, can you telepathically inform me why Rasho would be the one cut? Isn't his expiring contract valuable come next trade deadline as well as having a guy who could help a teams in the playoffs? Or is this another one of your attempts at humor, duke?
I just wanted a chance to say "McBob". That's all. I think either of these guys would be great trade fodder come winter.

spazzxb
07-01-2008, 01:27 PM
I respectfully reserve the right not to be classified in the "WE" category! And I am quite capable of making up my mind on Bird positive and negative issues w/o being lumped in to the "WE" category. Until it's proved it's Bird's decisions, I will continue to view Bird as I have the last 4 years.

I'm more than willing to change my perception of Bird, the GM, with valid proof the decisions were his. Until then, I reserve the right to feel as I currently do about Bird's ability to run the Pacers.

Well its a good thing that your opinion doesn't make a difference to the teams future, because I highly doubt you will get the documentation you seek.

joeshmoe
07-01-2008, 03:21 PM
Rasho will be solid for us. He played really well for Toronto while Bosh was out. So well in fact that he was re-inserted into the starting line-up at the end of the season after Bosh returned. He has a solid 12-15 ft jump shot, and rebounds and plays defense pretty well considering how slow he is.

As a TJ Ford fan, I was perplexed at why Toronto acquired the slow as molasses 7 footer when they were trying to become the "Phoenix of the East" at the time. But he ended up being one of my favorite raptors, he just knows how to play. Also, he plays really well off of Ford, always flashing to the basket to get easy buckets off of TJ's penetrations.

Also, Rasho will be the perfect template for Hibbert for how to play as a nonathletic big man.

NuffSaid
07-01-2008, 04:26 PM
No one will ever be proved right or wrong on this , but I'll take Maceo baston or kareem Rush against anybody we acquired or drafted the last two days in a game of 1 on 1.
You will lose.


Marquis Daniels is light years ahead of Brandon Rush...............he can actually handle the basketball.........something thats usually a good trait for a guard to have.
What? Did you close your eyes all those times he turned the ball over last year? Why do you think JOB wouldn't let him handle the rock in the closing minutes of the 4th quarter?[/quote]


I don't love Bayless, but I really hate the Rush pick.
Then you fail to see where B-Rush fits within JOB's offense over Bayless. Yes, I wanted a playmaker, too, and Bayless would have certainly fit the bill, but I also wanted someone who was ready to play significant minutes now and contribute in a team oriented offense. Accourding to most scouting reports B-Rush fits that bill much better than Bayless. So, I'll trust the judgement of the Pacers' scouts for now and hope he pans out. (Like I have much choice...:rolleyes: )

Justin Tyme
07-01-2008, 05:49 PM
I highly doubt you will get the documentation you seek.

Maybe not, but I'm not going to follow the lemmings, who believe otherwise, over the cliff either.

skyfire
07-01-2008, 09:34 PM
I like what Bird has done. It still remains to be seen whether Bayless will turn into Arenas, but it still remains to be seen whether building a team around that sort of player will get you to the championship.

Elite shoot first PGs require a lot of money to resign them and a lot of shots in your offense. I dont think Bird wants to build his team around either of those characteristics.

We now have a lot of expiring contracts which will provide us with some flexibility. We now have a workable back court rotation which depending on who is on can defend, shoot, penetrate and pass.

Kid Minneapolis
07-02-2008, 02:58 PM
Some opinions are interesting to read in this thread.

First, regarding the Indy/Toronto trade. From a talent stand-point, JO (when healthy) is arguably better *right now* than everyone else involved in the trade --- combined. So if you're basing your opinion of the trade solely off that, then I suppose you are entitled to your opinion, and people are entitled to have wrong opinions, it's a free country after all.

But you need to look at the big picture.

Before the trade, Indy had:
- An oft-injured, aging, never 100% healthy PF/C who's best days were 2-3 years ago, with mounting injuries.
- An enormous contract that hamstrung Indy's ability to make the roster moves they need to, and O'Neal was arguably not performing at a 20+mil/year level, even when he did play.

In other words, O'Neal was no longer valuable for the team. It was the equivalent of a large corporation selling off a once-profitable cash-cow division that is now losing money.

After the trade, Indy has:
- A 25-year-old PG that was a top 5-6 PG in the league last year, with a repaired neck that won't be a problem for us, and should work tremendously in Jim O'Brien's offense.
- A serviceable veteran big man Center which happens to be a position we need depth at, and who's large contract is expiring after the season, providing us with yet even more roster flexibility.
- A talented, promising young center to back up our newly-acquired serviceable veteran center.
- Baston, who is at least cheap serviceable depth at the PF position.

In other words, ya, there may not be as much talent as Jermaine. But now we have some young talent and more importantly --- much more roster flexibility. Of the four players, I only see Ford and Hibbert being on the team long-term. So really we got Ford, Hibbert, and much-needed (and significant) roster flexibility in exchange for Jermaine O'Neal, who was no longer worth his huge contract.

You still don't view that as a good move?

Hokay. :)

---------------------------
So let's examine the next move --- Indy and Portland.

We lost Ike Diogu. He was supposed to be the crown jewel of the GS trade, a young talented interior player. After watching him, I don't know what the hell he is. I certainly didn't get the impression he was as good as everyone projected him to be, though. Whether he didn't get a fair shake or not --- Ike hasn't proved a darn thing in this league as of yet. He looked fairly lost in JOB's system. It was one of those things where you could just tell it wasn't going to work out like everyone originally thought, and I have no problem sending him over to Portland. None whatsoever.

Rush was Bird's man all along. Rush was projected to go a tad later than #11. Bayless was a top 4 talent that fell to 11. He levied that draft hype and supposed talent to get *more* than just Rush.

He also got Jarret jack, who is widely regarded around the league as an admirably capable PG and quality guy, and fairly cheap too. It provided Indy with a 1-2 punch at PG that we haven't seen since Jackson/Best or Jackson/Workman.

It also provided us with yet one more depth player in McRoberts. Very athletic, and yet rumored to be a pain in the *** --- McRoberts is a low-risk venture, because he's young, unproven, and he makes ~$450k, which is peanuts in terms of NBA salaries. He could turn into a good cheap player, which is a benefit to us, or he could not work out, and we cut him. Who cares.

We *could* have just drafted Rush straight up at #11. Instead we got him, plus 2 other players. It provides us with roster flexibility.

Now, the big argument is whether Rush will be better than Bayless. It all comes down to that, right? After doing some research, my opinion of Bayless is that you are looking at the future version of Steve Francis or Marbury. Athletic, a terrific 1-on-1 player, a highlight reel guy. Only problem is, dunk highlights and 1-on-1 abilities don't translate into being a valuable part of a successful team, and what we want here is a successful team, right? He dropped to #11 for a reason, and could have fallen farther, because Indy didn't want him at #11. He has some head problems... he's not only a 1-on-1 player, he's also a 1-on-4 or 1-on-5 player. He's a scorer, not necessarily an offense orchestrator. He's a stat guy on a bad team, rather than a lesser-stat player who's an integral part of a great team.

Speaking of being a lesser-stat player who's an integral part of a great team, meet Mr. Brandon Rush. I was wrong before the draft, because I didn't do my homework, and I translated Brandon as being a younger version of Kareem. Man, was I wrong.

Rush is gonna be a helluva player. Watch some footage of him. It's impressive. He's multi-faceted in the offense, and not just as a 1-on-1 player, but as a dynamic *teammate* working with the offense in any kind of situation. He's got a MUCH more well-rounded skillset working within a good offense than Bayless. He's a good defender, he's got a sweet outside stroke, he *rebounds* at the SG position, he can make terrific passes, he's got great NBA size and athleticism.

I was wrong. Rush is better than Bayless. I personally think Bird took it to Portland in this trade, and I'm not just saying that as a homer Pacer fan. I was *pissed* when I first heard about the trade, but I've flipped "100 degrees", to quote our good friend Artest.

Pacers
07-02-2008, 04:15 PM
I might have been the only person in the state that was pissed at the Bayless pick, and drop dead excited at the Portland trade. Rush has been #2 on my board (behind DJ Augustin) for this team since the deadline for underclassman to pull out. I'm stoked to have Rush, and he's going to be great.