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View Full Version : It was inevitable: Who would you rather have?



CompACE
06-26-2008, 11:08 PM
Jerryd Bayless + Ike or JJ Rush & McBob

idioteque
06-26-2008, 11:12 PM
Ask me in three years.

JayRedd
06-26-2008, 11:13 PM
I went with Bayless cause of what I've heard, but honestly have no idea.

Anthem
06-26-2008, 11:15 PM
I didn't particularly like Bayless. But I still hate the trade.

SoupIsGood
06-26-2008, 11:24 PM
Can't really know for a long while now. Went with the one with a guy who has actually played a minute in the league.

LoneGranger33
06-26-2008, 11:24 PM
I think the thing was that we should have asked for more in the trade.

BPump33
06-26-2008, 11:32 PM
I was extremely excited to get Bayless, but the more I think about it the more I was just hyped on him because of all the mocks. I don't even really know that much about him. I do know that Jarrett Jack will be able play some physical D on the smaller guards and hopefully Rush is everything he's advertised to be. McRoberts I don't really care about, but at least he's some local talent.

Time will tell is basically all I can say about this trade.

PaceBalls
06-26-2008, 11:35 PM
Well, we get to dump Ike's salary. It's not like he was actually earning that. We get a JJ and Rush and some other guy I assume would get cut.

Looking at it as being able to get out from under a bad contract in Ike and filling a few roles, it's not so bad. I think it all depends on how well Bayless turns out.

The "asking for more" was shedding Ikes salary or at least turning it into something useful.

Mourning
06-26-2008, 11:40 PM
I didn't particularly like Bayless. But I still hate the trade.

Same here. Anyway, my frustration level is not going down, so I'm off to bed, because this is getting pointless now. Maybe I will catch some sleep and feel better when I wake up.

Cheers all!

AesopRockOn
06-26-2008, 11:41 PM
I went from being so ecstatic that Bayless, a top 4 talent, dropped to us (as Simmons and Ford predicted) to wow, Larry Bird still sucks and can't accept a little luck. JB was absolutely flourish in Portland, which now has a complete damn team.

SoupIsGood
06-26-2008, 11:42 PM
If you don't even like Bayless, how can you hate this trade.

Trader Joe
06-26-2008, 11:49 PM
I'm not sure Bayless will flourish in Portland. He's not a pure PG, which IMO is what the Blazers really need.

duke dynamite
06-26-2008, 11:54 PM
I have really calmed down and assessed the trade here.

I really feel that Brandon Rush was who we needed. as stated above, Ike wasn't really earning his keep here. That necessarily wasn't all his fault, but we now have a little bit of breathing room in the cap with JO leaving.

I chose Rush and JJ. Mainly because I have to accept it. I'm sure we will be alright with this trade.

rel
06-26-2008, 11:56 PM
I'm a big fan of Rush...i was just a bigger fan of Bayless

Aw Heck
06-27-2008, 12:02 AM
I actually liked this trade. Apparently I'm in the minority.

I know almost nothing about Bayless, except that he was rated highly in mock drafts and has been slowly dropping in each of them. Granger fell in much the same way, if not farther, so that may not mean much.

However, the Pacers acquired a backup PG in Jack who I think complements Ford perfectly. He's a bigger guard who can come in and help on the bigger guards that will usually post up Ford. And if Ford ends up having a career-ending injury, you have Jack to step in and be a solid, if unspectatular, starting point guard.

Rush is a solid defender and will definitely help with the perimeter defense. McRoberts will probably get the same minutes that Diogu was going to get (virtually none).

The Pacers did not work out Bayless, and that may have been a contributing factor. If they had worked him out and liked what they saw, perhaps they wouldn't have traded him. But if I'm in the Pacers' war room and I see 10 teams (many of whom worked out Bayless) pass on him, I get slightly concerned. At least with Granger, the Pacers were able to work him out. So when he fell, they knew what they were getting.

The Pacers did however workout Rush, and clearly must've seen something they liked. So at the end of the night, the Pacers get a player they liked and an excellent complementary backup PG. Time will tell on whether trading Bayless was good or bad. Either way, I like that the Pacers made a move to get the backup PG and perimeter D.

duke dynamite
06-27-2008, 12:04 AM
I actually liked this trade. Apparently I'm in the minority.

I know almost nothing about Bayless, except that he was rated highly in mock drafts and has been slowly dropping in each of them. Granger fell in much the same way, if not farther, so that may not mean much.

However, the Pacers acquired a backup PG in Jack who I think complements Ford perfectly. He's a bigger guard who can come in and help on the bigger guards that will usually post up Ford. And if Ford ends up having a career-ending injury, you have Jack to step in and be a solid, if unspectatular, starting point guard.

Rush is a solid defender and will definitely help with the perimeter defense. McRoberts will probably get the same minutes that Diogu was going to get (virtually none).

The Pacers did not work out Bayless, and that may have been a contributing factor. If they had worked him out and liked what they saw, perhaps they wouldn't have traded him. But if I'm in the Pacers' war room and I see 10 teams (many of whom worked out Bayless) pass on him, I get slightly concerned. At least with Granger, the Pacers were able to work him out. So when he fell, they knew what they were getting.

The Pacers did however workout Rush, and clearly must've seen something they liked. So at the end of the night, the Pacers get a player they liked and an excellent complementary backup PG. Time will tell on whether trading Bayless was good or bad. Either way, I like that the Pacers made a move to get the backup PG and perimeter D.

My nomination for Most Rational Post of the 2008 Draft.

Pacerized
06-27-2008, 12:04 AM
I went with Bayless and Ike, although I like getting some talent at both the 1 and 2 as this trade gives us.
I still question the coaching staff in keeping Ike out of the lineup as much as they did last year when J.O. was out. We needed an answer at the 4 and I'd liked to have seen Ike given that chance. With this trade we're really set at the 1, 2, and 3. Contrary to popular opinion I think we're fine at the 5 as well.

CableKC
06-27-2008, 12:07 AM
Well, we get to dump Ike's salary. It's not like he was actually earning that. We get a JJ and Rush and some other guy I assume would get cut.

Looking at it as being able to get out from under a bad contract in Ike and filling a few roles, it's not so bad. I think it all depends on how well Bayless turns out.

The "asking for more" was shedding Ikes salary or at least turning it into something useful.
Both Ike and Jack will need to have been extended next season and earn about the same amount...their salaries will need to be extended regardless.

RWB
06-27-2008, 12:10 AM
As others have posted not only is JJ an insurance policy if Ford doesn't work out, but he is considered one of the better guard defenders in the league and at a legit 6'3 he will not be posted on by the CBilliups of the world.

Rush is known to be a decent defender as well. Our backcourt will no longer be known for it's ole defense.

CableKC
06-27-2008, 12:13 AM
I mentioned this in another thread....but I think that we are going to be put in the same position with a Ford/Jack PG rotation as we were with the Tinsley/AJ PG problem that we had before.

On top of that...I didn't realize that Jack ( like Diogu ) will be a Restricted FA next season. Bird better have plans lined up to resign Jack next season...or I'm gonna be upset.

CableKC
06-27-2008, 12:17 AM
As others have posted not only is JJ an insurance policy if Ford doesn't work out, but he is considered one of the better guard defenders in the league and at a legit 6'3 he will not be posted on by the CBilliups of the world.

Rush is known to be a decent defender as well. Our backcourt will no longer be known for it's ole defense.
I agree.......but don't really like it that much since we traded away a top prospect PG.

At the very least....we traded out Ike....a player that we wouldn't have any real use for under JO'B...for Jack...a player that we could actually use that filled a need.

I can live with the Bayless swap....but it's hard for me to accept that Bird was not able to get either the 33th or 36th pick out of the Blazers. Seriously...the Blazers had about a million picks and we couldn't get one of the 2nd rounders out of them? Geez....

But I will credit Bird for recognizing what many of us recognized....we needed perimeter/interior defenders and a PG that can compliment Ford that can help pressure the opposing PG and he went out and got that. This moves helps us now...whereas we will likely regret this in a few years when Bayless is a top flight PG running the Blazers offense :banghead:.

duke dynamite
06-27-2008, 12:18 AM
On top of that...I didn't realize that Jack ( like Diogu ) will be a Restricted FA next season. Bird better have plans lined up to resign Jack next season...or I'm gonna be upset.

Most of you guys are already upset. Is there ever going to be a happy medium?

pwee31
06-27-2008, 12:19 AM
I was extremely excited about Bayless, but I don't think the trade was a bad one

CompACE
06-27-2008, 12:24 AM
I've calmed down a bit and don't really mind the trade all that much, but I would still rather have Bayless.

DisapointedPacerFan
06-27-2008, 12:24 AM
Bayless, who is easily the #2 PG in the draft, falls to us amazingly at #11. We snab him, everyone is happy, and Larry manages to find a way to **** everybody off. Bayless is a great shooter and defender. Jarrett Jack will never be that. Why didn't we just take Brandon Rush in the first place???!?!?!?

Bird needs to be fired. We could've gotten so much more for Bayless.

croz24
06-27-2008, 12:25 AM
how this is even tied shows how little this board actually watches college basketball or understands talent. jerryd bayless was legitimately the #4 talent in this draft. a kid who could break you down off the dribble, pull up from anywhere on the court, get to the rim and finish with the best of them or get fouled, either way it's a guaranteed 2 points, has supreme athleticism, played in a system known for producing top nba talent, is a character guy, can make the crucial assist, is young with unlimited potential, has top desire and work ethic, displays tremendous leadership, and plays one the most critical positions on the court. essentially the pacers are passing up the next monta ellis/chauncey billups with this dumbass trade.

Trader Joe
06-27-2008, 12:27 AM
how this is even tied shows how little this board actually watches college basketball or understands talent. jerryd bayless was legitimately the #4 talent in this draft. a kid who could break you down off the dribble, pull up from anywhere on the court, get to the rim and finish with the best of them or get fouled, either way it's a guaranteed 2 points, has supreme athleticism, played in a system known for producing top nba talent, is a character guy, can make the crucial assist, is young with unlimited potential, has top desire and work ethic, displays tremendous leadership, and plays one the most critical positions on the court. essentially the pacers are passing up the next monta ellis/chauncey billups with this dumbass trade.

Dude, GTFO, seriously. I know I'm not the only tired of your holier than thou attitude.

RWB
06-27-2008, 12:28 AM
Why didn't we just take Brandon Rush in the first place???!?!?!?

Bird needs to be fired. We could've gotten so much more for Bayless.

Once again because Rush is who Bird/O'Brien targeted and they were able to fill a need at PG as well by picking up JJ. If Bayless turns out to be a superstar stud then what a blunder. But if he turns out to be average then Bird made a darn good move.

Taterhead
06-27-2008, 12:30 AM
I live in AZ, watched Bayless a bunch, and there is no doubt in my mind that he is better than Rush in every way but outside shooting.

Before Kansas won the title, Rush was viewed as a player who had more talent than his production showed. People questioned his drive. And that he didn't have the aggressiveness to be a great player. Then they win the title, not necessarily because of him BTW, and now he is a winner and a sure thing. In Brandon Rush you are getting at best a descent role player, at worst a complete bust. I think he is just as risky as Bayless with less reward.

The truth is neither guy is a sure thing. So in that case, I go with the more talented and aggressive player. And that no doubt in my mind is Bayless.

DisapointedPacerFan
06-27-2008, 12:30 AM
I still think we could've gotten alot better for a top 5 talent in the draft.

RWB
06-27-2008, 12:31 AM
Dude, GTFO, seriously. I know I'm not the only tired of your holier than thou attitude.


Agree Indy, sounds like someone needs to re-aquaint themselves with the board rules. :o

CompACE
06-27-2008, 12:32 AM
Dude, GTFO, seriously. I know I'm not the only tired of your holier than thou attitude.

Agreed... I wasn't so high on the trade either, but I got over it in like an hour - Calm down

Sollozzo
06-27-2008, 12:33 AM
Why didn't we just take Brandon Rush in the first place???!?!?!?




Um, because he found a way to get the player he wanted (Rush) while filling a need (PG).

Why draft Rush when you can trade for him plus something else you want?

Ramitt
06-27-2008, 12:36 AM
Um, because he found a way to get the player he wanted (Rush) while filling a need (PG).

Why draft Rush when you can trade for him plus something else you want?
Stop making sense and rant with irrational anger over subjective opinions! Rawr!! RAGE!!!!!

Ramitt
06-27-2008, 12:37 AM
Dude, GTFO, seriously. I know I'm not the only tired of your holier than thou attitude.
X2 +++++++

Shade
06-27-2008, 12:41 AM
I can see that "acceptance" is starting to settle in, but make no mistake; we just got robbed.

We traded a potential star for two good players.

duke dynamite
06-27-2008, 12:43 AM
how this is even tied shows how little this board actually watches college basketball or understands talent. jerryd bayless was legitimately the #4 talent in this draft. a kid who could break you down off the dribble, pull up from anywhere on the court, get to the rim and finish with the best of them or get fouled, either way it's a guaranteed 2 points, has supreme athleticism, played in a system known for producing top nba talent, is a character guy, can make the crucial assist, is young with unlimited potential, has top desire and work ethic, displays tremendous leadership, and plays one the most critical positions on the court. essentially the pacers are passing up the next monta ellis/chauncey billups with this dumbass trade.


Dude, GTFO, seriously. I know I'm not the only tired of your holier than thou attitude.


Agree Indy, sounds like someone needs to re-aquaint themselves with the board rules. :o


Agreed... I wasn't so high on the trade either, but I got over it in like an hour - Calm down
I'm sticking my two cents in...

Overreacting is all I've assesed from this guy all night.

Croz, you may know your college basketball, you may know your stats, but never assume that the other members you are engaging conversation with do not know the situation as well. Never take a stab at someone's intelligence here. That isn't a good way to make friends and it really hurts your credibility.

With all that said I could go on and quote Rodney King and ask for peace, but I shouldn't have to do that. This is a friendly place, (we may joke around with each other a bit, but that is different) but do not think that any of us don't pay attention to what is going on.

I think you should sit back and assess the situation here and think about how we could do this the right way instead of pushing forth personal attacks just to try and justify your vented frustrations.

Thanks,

DD

Trader Joe
06-27-2008, 12:43 AM
Robbed yep totally. We just gave up the best player who hasn't even played in the NBA yet, and is just as likely to be Dajuan Wagner as Gilbert Arenas at this point.

SoupIsGood
06-27-2008, 12:45 AM
We traded a potential star for two good players.

We also traded a potential bust for two good players.

A star? We'll see, but the odds are for us here. There are probably 2-4 stars in this draft, and at least two of them went in the top three, I'd bet.

If Bayless is anything less than a star, we win this trade.

Ramitt
06-27-2008, 12:46 AM
We traded a potential star for two good players.
Sometimes 2 good players end up the better deal.

duke dynamite
06-27-2008, 12:48 AM
Now come on. I'm sure if this was that bad of a situation that someone would have told Larry not to go through with it. From a fan's standpoint, it's easy to cling to something that nice. But I assure that Bird isn't stupid. I just don't see it. I can't. I'm sure that there were a ton of people in our war room and if it were that bad someone could have interjected.

I still can't understand why a top-4 fell so far down. I was really thinking he had the Brady Quinn curse.

Trader Joe
06-27-2008, 12:49 AM
Chad Ford says Brandon Rush could be the next Joe Johnson. Now Rush isn't the ball handler JJ is, but he might be a more natural defender.

duke dynamite
06-27-2008, 12:50 AM
The light at the end of the tunnel my friend.

Shade
06-27-2008, 12:50 AM
Sometimes 2 good players end up the better deal.

This isn't one of those times.

Trader Joe
06-27-2008, 12:51 AM
This isn't one of those times.

You can't possibly know that, and if you do I'm quite honored that I met God tonight. ;)

duke dynamite
06-27-2008, 12:59 AM
You can't possibly know that, and if you do I'm quite honored that I met God tonight. ;)
Come on now, don't give him a big head. :laugh:

Shade
06-27-2008, 01:00 AM
I just have a really, really bad feeling about this trade.

I went from ecstatic to wanting to kick puppies tonight.

duke dynamite
06-27-2008, 01:05 AM
Everyone goes to the zoo every once in a while. Just give it time. I'm sure it was for the best.

docpaul
06-27-2008, 01:06 AM
how this is even tied shows how little this board actually watches college basketball or understands talent. jerryd bayless was legitimately the #4 talent in this draft. a kid who could break you down off the dribble, pull up from anywhere on the court, get to the rim and finish with the best of them or get fouled, either way it's a guaranteed 2 points, has supreme athleticism, played in a system known for producing top nba talent, is a character guy, can make the crucial assist, is young with unlimited potential, has top desire and work ethic, displays tremendous leadership, and plays one the most critical positions on the court. essentially the pacers are passing up the next monta ellis/chauncey billups with this dumbass trade.

From ESPN's David Thorpe:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-32-373/The-Draft-is-a-Marathon--Not-a-Sprint.html


David Thorpe called, and shares his thoughts on Bayless, Westbrook, Love, and Speights: "I have worries about Jerryd Bayless. He has had the reputation for being a hot dog. What I like about Portland is that, between Nate McMillan and Kevin Pritchard they have an ethos. LaMarcus Aldridge and Brandon Roy aren't impressed by Jerryd Bayless. They'll say to him, essentially, enjoy the ride and do it our way or we'll get someone else. They have a role, and he'll have to fill it. And he's perfect in that he can shoot, so he fits on the court very well with what they want to do ...

croz24
06-27-2008, 01:10 AM
I'm sticking my two cents in...

Overreacting is all I've assesed from this guy all night.

Croz, you may know your college basketball, you may know your stats, but never assume that the other members you are engaging conversation with do not know the situation as well. Never take a stab at someone's intelligence here. That isn't a good way to make friends and it really hurts your credibility.

With all that said I could go on and quote Rodney King and ask for peace, but I shouldn't have to do that. This is a friendly place, (we may joke around with each other a bit, but that is different) but do not think that any of us don't pay attention to what is going on.

I think you should sit back and assess the situation here and think about how we could do this the right way instead of pushing forth personal attacks just to try and justify your vented frustrations.

Thanks,

DD

i made 0 personal attacks to people on this board whatsoever until i was called a tool for calling bird a tool for making this trade. that statement was directed at ramitt more than anyone. i don't see how anybody who watched jerryd bayless at 'zona could possibly think rush is the better player RIGHT NOW and in the future.

JayRedd
06-27-2008, 01:13 AM
My nomination for Most Rational Post of the 2008 Draft.

Some of mine in the draft thread were very rational. Check for caps lock.

croz24
06-27-2008, 01:23 AM
i'll trust the time i spend living, loving, and breathing college basketball over an "espn analyst" any day...not once have i dogged on brandon rush as a player, and if you look at my 1st posts in the nba recruiting thread, you'll see that brandon rush was one of the few players i said AT THE START OF THE YEAR, i would draft. shoot i was the first to mention him as a possibility even on that thread, so it's not like i dislike his game (1st page of the recruiting thread for reference). i just have a problem trading a higher quality player with much more potential at a more crucial position, for him.

pwee31
06-27-2008, 01:25 AM
I look at it more this way.

Ford, Rasho, Baston, Rush, Hibbert, Jack, McRoberts

Bayless, Ford, Rasho, Baston, Hibbert

Bayless (without JO trade)

Bayless, Varejo, Wally, #19? (if we did the Cavs rumor)

When looking at what the other options appear to be. I think we did pretty well given the circumstance.

Of course Bayless was the hot pick at the moment, but I like our offseason so far...... and there's more to come

Taterhead
06-27-2008, 02:39 AM
We also traded a potential bust for two good players.

A star? We'll see, but the odds are for us here. There are probably 2-4 stars in this draft, and at least two of them went in the top three, I'd bet.

If Bayless is anything less than a star, we win this trade.


You seem to be pretty confident our two picks will both be good players. Odds are atleast one of them will bust.

I just don't see why so many people think Brandon Rush or Roy Hibbert have a better chance at being a good solid NBA player than Bayless. The more talented player has a better chance of making it than the less talented player, IMO. But I guess I just might have a more pessimistic nature than some here when it comes to Larry Bird's decision making.

In summary, I think Brandon Rush better far exceed expectations, because I believe Bayless will make the teams before us regret passing on him, let alone us for trading him away. He's going to be in a great situation in Portland and meshes perfectly with Brandon Roy in the backcourt. And hopefully Jack continues to mature and improves his game as well.

Shade
06-27-2008, 03:54 AM
I can't believe we traded JO for Ford, Rasho, and Hibbert. :shakehead

duke dynamite
06-27-2008, 07:46 AM
i made 0 personal attacks to people on this board whatsoever until i was called a tool for calling bird a tool for making this trade. that statement was directed at ramitt more than anyone. i don't see how anybody who watched jerryd bayless at 'zona could possibly think rush is the better player RIGHT NOW and in the future.
I highlighted it again...

Just so we all can be on the same page.


how this is even tied shows how little this board actually watches college basketball or understands talent.

SoupIsGood
06-27-2008, 08:09 AM
You seem to be pretty confident our two picks will both be good players. Odds are atleast one of them will bust.


1) Wasn't talking about both picks. 2) It was Shade that said they were good.

Mourning
06-27-2008, 08:16 AM
I went from ecstatic to wanting to kick puppies tonight.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

PBB
06-27-2008, 09:20 AM
Wasn't Bayless' coach at Arizona, ex-Pacers assistant, Kevin O’Neill?

QuickRelease
06-27-2008, 09:29 AM
I don't think we should judge the Rush/Bayless trade on numbers alone. We will have to take into account their role in team success. If we become a successful team, with Rush playing a Raja Bell roll, you have to like this deal, even if Bayless may have better individual stats.