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Anthem
06-26-2008, 09:30 PM
Screw this, I'm done. I absolutely cannot believe we just did this. It's monumentally stupid.

Have a good night, guys. I feel sick... I'm not watching any more.

This may be a death-blow for my following the team this year. I'm more convinced than ever that Larry Bird is a moron.

Mourning
06-26-2008, 09:44 PM
Screw this, I'm done. I absolutely cannot believe we just did this. It's monumentally stupid.

Have a good night, guys. I feel sick... I'm not watching any more.

This may be a death-blow for my following the team this year. I'm more convinced than ever that Larry Bird is a moron.

I'm close to what you are describing... very close.

This is the sort of retardedness you expect from teams like Atlanta and the Knicks.

The Jumpshot Still Money
06-26-2008, 09:52 PM
my fanhood is up for free agency
can't take it anymore

GrangerRanger
06-26-2008, 09:54 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me? You guys obviously know nothing about basketball. Ike is ****, Jared won't be used, and this trade is the ****. It's one of the better trades I've seen pulled off. Jared Jack was is a starter in this league. Rush was drafted two positions higher then Jared. He shoots, he's a winner, he defends, he's tall, he's Kareem's brother, and Josh is from Indiana.

Good trade. Thank you Bird.

madison
06-26-2008, 09:58 PM
Looks like we finally agree on something. LB is a moron. If he wanted Rush, why didn't he just take him at 11? By the way, we still need a serious PG, and now that JO is gone, a serious PF. I wonder what this board will think of LB when Bayless and the Blasers make a major move in the standings next season.

laft
06-26-2008, 10:00 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me? You guys obviously know nothing about basketball. Ike is ****, Jared won't be used, and this trade is the ****. It's one of the better trades I've seen pulled off. Jared Jack was is a starter in this league. Rush was drafted two positions higher then Jared. He shoots, he's a winner, he defends, he's tall, he's Kareem's brother, and Josh is from Indiana.

Good trade. Thank you Bird.

That's the most un-American thing I've heard today.

Mourning
06-26-2008, 10:01 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me? You guys obviously know nothing about basketball. Ike is ****, Jared won't be used, and this trade is the ****. It's one of the better trades I've seen pulled off. Jared Jack was is a starter in this league. Rush was drafted two positions higher then Jared. He shoots, he's a winner, he defends, he's tall, he's Kareem's brother, and Josh is from Indiana.

Good trade. Thank you Bird.

That must be it. 90% of the board doesn't know basketball thats why they hate the trade.

And yeah one of the better trades pulled off... for the Portland
Trailblazers that is :tongue:.

Btw WTF do I care if they are brothers? Are we starting a family company?

I know Rush is a good player, but there's a difference between good and possibly great.

Putnam
06-26-2008, 10:06 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me? You guys obviously know nothing about basketball. Ike is ****, Jared won't be used, and this trade is the ****. It's one of the better trades I've seen pulled off. Jared Jack was is a starter in this league. Rush was drafted two positions higher then Jared. He shoots, he's a winner, he defends, he's tall, he's Kareem's brother, and Josh is from Indiana.

Good trade. Thank you Bird.


I'm guessin' this will be the sunshiner of the year post.

BBALL56HACKER
06-26-2008, 10:06 PM
Great trade for L.B. Rush & Jack gives a great 2nd combo to back up starters and can PLAY DEFENCE!

Oneal07
06-26-2008, 10:08 PM
I think we are stressing a little too much over this. I mean, didn't we all want Jack this past season? We got him. We got a solid back up. and a guy that defends his position

GrangerRanger
06-26-2008, 10:13 PM
Erm..

I don't think anyone here understands the concept of sarcasm. :rolleyes:

wooolus
06-26-2008, 10:13 PM
Did Stern announce this yet?

Justin Tyme
06-26-2008, 10:15 PM
Btw WTF do I care if they are brothers? Are we starting a family company?

Nah, a sitcom called All In The Family!

Your retort was priceless. I understand your pain. For 2 years I have said Bird couldn't lead a group of starving people to a free meal. I bet Walsh is laughing his a## off. Forest Gump said "stupid is as stupid does." Pretty much describes Bird.

Plax80
06-26-2008, 10:18 PM
I think we are stressing a little too much over this. I mean, didn't we all want Jack this past season? We got him. We got a solid back up. and a guy that defends his position

I'd have drated Kareem again over his little brother if it was a 2 man draft.

At least he wouldn't have a guaranteed contract.

Oh and by the way.........he plays the only 2 positions that the team is actually fairly good at already.

And Jack is fine.........I like him..........but we already have three other Pgs who make about $20mm per between them.........oh............and not that it really matters anymore, but.............none of them are very good..................and they all have guaranteed contracts for like three more years.

And Jerryd Bayless was rated as high as teh third best player in this draft a couple of weeks ago............that's a pretty high ranking...........Brandon rush to teh best of my knowledge wasn't ranked quite as high..........Bayless can create his own offense and is quick and has a good handle............Brandon rush doesn't possess any of those qualities.................not that it matters anymore.

Only 365 days left until next years draft............I hope we get somebody good.

Josh McRoberts is from Carmel, though, so its not a total loss.

SoupIsGood
06-26-2008, 10:23 PM
This reaction is a bit extreme but, yeah, kinda sucks. Bird went for the collection of useful and decent players instead of sticking with the one seriously skilled player. Disappointing, or at least that's how it seems right now.

madison
06-26-2008, 10:25 PM
How many years has it been since a local boy made any impact on the Pacers? Josh won't average 6 mpg next season. He'll be a non-factor. So, please stop telling me this is a good trade because of family ties and/or local connections. Does Bird think that will somehow fill Conseco? I have a suggestion, Larry. Why not try putting a competitive team on the floor. As I recall, during the 61-game season the seats were full. (And, no one was arrested that year, either).

SoupIsGood
06-26-2008, 10:30 PM
Exactly how good is Jack?

This isn't the super-retarded trade you guys are making it out to be. At the very least we gained one more player who can play in this league. We're drastically short on talent, remember? And defense.

Oneal07
06-26-2008, 10:32 PM
I'd have drated Kareem again over his little brother if it was a 2 man draft.

At least he wouldn't have a guaranteed contract.

Oh and by the way.........he plays the only 2 positions that the team is actually fairly good at already.

And Jack is fine.........I like him..........but we already have three other Pgs who make about $20mm per between them.........oh............and not that it really matters anymore, but.............none of them are very good..................and they all have guaranteed contracts for like three more years.

And Jerryd Bayless was rated as high as teh third best player in this draft a couple of weeks ago............that's a pretty high ranking...........Brandon rush to teh best of my knowledge wasn't ranked quite as high..........Bayless can create his own offense and is quick and has a good handle............Brandon rush doesn't possess any of those qualities.................not that it matters anymore.

Only 365 days left until next years draft............I hope we get somebody good.

Josh McRoberts is from Carmel, though, so its not a total loss.

Why is it bad, that we have 3 PGs? It should be considered a luxury because we have 3 quality pgs IMO. How many did we have last year? 1. And that was Diener, who played hurt. Our back court is 20000x better than it was last year. As far as McRoberts, he'll probably get dropped or even traded, so I'm not worried about him.

So what If Bayless was rated high in the draft, he just like everyone else has to go out and play in the NBA, while he would have been a great pick up, I don't see the picking up of JArret JAck, who a bunch of people wanted on this team last season, is a bad thing.

Hibbert, has a lot of upside, I don't care what anyone tells me, We need a big man and we got one.

Not like the offseason is over, there's still moves to be made, but overall, you can't say the Pacers have done anything wrong, maybe you can, but I don't think it's THAT BAD. We could have drafted worse

Mourning
06-26-2008, 10:33 PM
Exactly how good is Jack?

This isn't the super-retarded trade you guys are making it out to be. At the very least we gained one more player who can play in this league. We're drastically short on talent, remember? And defense.

Yeah, we are short on talent, so what do we do? We trade the most talented player away and get a lesser talented player back (who is still pretty good I will give you that) to... fill in the friggin'back up PG spot :wtf: Like we need MORE roleplayers?

SoupIsGood
06-26-2008, 10:36 PM
We need more of anything good.

Maybe three years from now Bayless is only marginally better than Jack and Rush. We win, then. Really the only way we lose out big on this is if Bayless goes all-star on us. Is that really going to happen?

Plax80
06-26-2008, 10:38 PM
Going into tonight , the guy who would make me sick to my stomach if his name was called directly after the "with the 11th pick, the Indiana Pacers select" was Anthony Randolph.

The second name in line was Brandon Rush.

I actually do like the Hibbert pick as well, but I can see him being no better than David harrison too.

But at 17......his size and pedigree warranted taking the chance that he could become another Chief 00........or Mutumbo 55.

Coop
06-26-2008, 10:43 PM
Basically, if everyone lives up to their potential in this trade, the Pacers lose. I like Rush, and I said we should take him at 11. That was before Bayless dropped though. Bayless has the potential to be Arenas, while Rush could be a more consistent Posey.

Sollozzo
06-26-2008, 10:44 PM
We need more of anything good.

Maybe three years from now Bayless is only marginally better than Jack and Rush. We win, then. Really the only way we lose out big on this is if Bayless goes all-star on us. Is that really going to happen?


I agree, everyone really needs to calm down. Like you said, is Bayless REALLY going to be an All star? Maybe, but probably not.

You would have thought we traded Michael Jordan by the way some are acting on here.

Rush and Jack are solid.

croz24
06-26-2008, 10:48 PM
That must be it. 90% of the board doesn't know basketball thats why they hate the trade.

And yeah one of the better trades pulled off... for the Portland
Trailblazers that is :tongue:.

Btw WTF do I care if they are brothers? Are we starting a family company?

I know Rush is a good player, but there's a difference between good and possibly great.

not only that, but 90% of the league's fans hate the trade for the pacers as well and are as sure as ever the blazers will become one of the better dynasties in nba history. the ONLY way this trade makes sense is if we were 100% on ford being our pg. so why trade to get a pg in return?

croz24
06-26-2008, 10:48 PM
I agree, everyone really needs to calm down. Like you said, is Bayless REALLY going to be an All star? Maybe, but probably not.

You would have thought we traded Michael Jordan by the way some are acting on here.

Rush and Jack are solid.
did you watch bayless at all last year? do you know the history of 'zona guards in the nba?

PR07
06-26-2008, 10:49 PM
When did Bayless become an all-star in the NBA? Dude couldn't even lead a team with him and Budinger past the first round in the NCAA tourney.

Give Rush a chance, that's all I'm saying. I'm not saying he's going to be a superstar, but he's going to be a heck of a player. It's sad that people are mad when they should be really happy. He's going to make this team a lot better because he's going to do the little things. He's like James Posey in the Finals except he'll play that way every night.

Plax80
06-26-2008, 10:53 PM
On a positive note, Larry just sent me $150 in return for me not watching the games next year.............thats a pretty good trade for me.

duke dynamite
06-26-2008, 10:54 PM
LB wanted Rush to begin with.

There he found a way to get Rush and Jack at the same time.

It is a smart move, in theory. I will just have to see how it plays out in training camp.

Bball
06-26-2008, 10:56 PM
Screw this, I'm done. I absolutely cannot believe we just did this. It's monumentally stupid.

Have a good night, guys. I feel sick... I'm not watching any more.

This may be a death-blow for my following the team this year. I'm more convinced than ever that Larry Bird is a moron.

This is hilarious... Now you know how I felt watching all of Walsh's non-moves or silly moves that you knew you'd be stuck with because once he made a move moss would grow before he made another... regardless of how big a mistake he'd made. In fact, the bigger the mistake, the more likely he'd ride it out even longer rather than cutting his losses and just moving on.

Well, guess what... I actually LIKE all this activity I'm seeing out of Bird and Morway. You know how you get something done? You do something!

It would appear to me that Bird is looking for players who know what it takes to play in the NBA, or are as close to NBA ready as you are going to get. No more "potential" or "high ceiling" picks. Fine by me, what has it gotten us? I'm fine with working with known commodities and building a team around pieces that you KNOW how they'll fit rather than how you HOPE they will fit (as far as their abilities). We don't need projects or SG's in PG's bodies. We don't need soft Euro-centers. We need players ready to play the NBA game.

But here's the bigger thing, I get the feeling if THIS FO makes a mistake we're not going to paint ourselves into the corner with it and HOPE it all turns around on its own. We'll move the mistakes and cut our losses rather than letting things fester. We won't hold out for too much... we'll make a fair deal and move on. (BTW- "Fair" means fair to both parties, not just the Pacers).

It's not like we just got scum with our trade. We got players that many would've been fine with IF it didn't cost the shiny new "Bayless" model. But Bayless looks good because he's like a clean slate or clay that everyone can mold into their ideal player in their minds. ""Potential" means you haven't done it yet" ...It gets coaches fired too...

-Bball

DisplacedKnick
06-26-2008, 10:58 PM
WOW. I was ready to eat it on here from Pacer fans after I saw the pick.

Keep in mind I know nothing about Gallinari - I'd decided I'd be neutral about him until the season. But with Bayless still on the board? I know we have Crawford, but Bayless should be 2X the player he is - and you got him at 11.

And then Larry Bird decides to get absolutely obliterated by Portland.

I may have to take some grief for DW taking the Italian - but it won't be from Pacer fans.

WOW.

croz24
06-26-2008, 10:59 PM
i leave for an hour and suddenly pacers fans are LIKING this trade? WTF! this was a HORRIBLE deal for the pacers. bayless is twice the player rush is, and at a more important position, AND with three times the potential.

Taterhead
06-26-2008, 10:59 PM
Jarrett Jack started 12 games on a non playoff team, and lost his job to a guy that Portland doesn't even view as a starter himself. Jarrett Jack is definately not a starting PG. But he can be a pretty good back-up.

Brandon Rush has got a chance to be a very solid player. But he has little upside and has an ACL tear in his recent history. And he will not be a good defender against NBA 2 guards, IMO. Remember, he played SF at Kansas and always got the easy assignment on the perimter playing with Chalmers and Robinson. Defending NBA 2 guards is a whole 'nother monster.

Bayless on the other hand has got a chance to be an all star player in a few years. He has all the skills Rush and Jack have combined into one player, plus the ability to create his own offense, which we don't have. A Ford-Bayless backcourt had me truly excited for this team for the first time in years. Now I am more pissed than before. All I can say is that we better find a way to put that cap space next year to really good use. And I'm talking Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer type of good use, which is not likely. Cap space is worthless in Indiana. We have never signed a descent free agent here.

Plus, we are going to have the most unathletic front court ever assembled, on a team that wants to run. I can see TJ Ford getting to the offensive end only to wonder where the hell everyone else is.

Oh and BTW, Josh McRoberts sucks!

This draft has shown me Larry Bird is among, if not the worst GM in the league. "Isaih Part Deux" if you will.

We could of had Bayless, and kept JO. We could have bought the Hornets pick at 27 and possibly gotten Hibbert there or Arthur. That is, if we had a good GM like Portland does. That guy turned thier back up PG, #13 and some cash into Jerryd Bayless and Darrel Arthur. We turned a 6 time 7 foot all star, Ike Diogu, the 11th, 17th and 41st picks into TJ Ford, Jarrett Jack, Brandon Rush and Roy Hibbert and 8 million in cap space. And we still have the bad seeds everyone wants so desperately to get rid of! Pathetic.

Bayless
Granger
Dunleavy
O'neal
Hibbert/Arthur

or

Ford
Dunleavy
Granger
Foster
Hibbert

It's a f'n no brainer!

SoupIsGood
06-26-2008, 11:00 PM
Aand Bbball nails it.

naptownmenace
06-26-2008, 11:02 PM
I must be in the minority then because I like this trade a lot.

People seem to be ignoring the fact that Bayless took a mayor drop and was even passed up by Charlotte for DJ Augustine. Sure he can score but defensively he's just average.

Jerret Jack is a good player and adds to our depth. Brandon Rush will be a good starting quality swingman. He might not be the sexy pick but he's NBA ready and considering that he played most of the past season through injury (yet still put up good numbers) we probably are prejudging him a bit prematurely. He could be this year's Danny Granger.

I like the Hibbert pick considering Speights was gone by the time 17 rolled around. He'll fill the defensive role and defend the paint - something the team definitely needs. And he can probably come in and play from day 1.

I think you guys are harpooning Bird unfairly this time around.

jeffg-body
06-26-2008, 11:07 PM
I like the trade, but don't look too hard into the Rush brothers playing together. Kareem is a FA and should get some offers we can't afford to match. Jack will be a nice change of pace with Ford and they both defend better than what we had in the backcourt. Hibbert is a good pick to me, with exception to Darrell Arthur that dropped faster than Brady Quinn a few years back.

Lou's WaHoosiers
06-26-2008, 11:07 PM
For everyone drinking the Larry Bird Kool-Aid, spit it out. It is poisonous and it will kill you! This team needed a foundational player like Bayless. Those are the players that make players like Rush effective.

Oneal07
06-26-2008, 11:07 PM
I must be in the minority then because I like this trade a lot.

People seem to be ignoring the fact that Bayless took a mayor drop and was even passed up by Charlotte for DJ Augustine. Sure he can score but defensively he's just average.

Jerret Jack is a good player and adds to our depth. Brandon Rush will be a good starting quality swingman. He might not be the sexy pick but he's NBA ready and considering that he played most of the past season through injury (yet still put up good numbers) we probably are prejudging him a bit prematurely. He could be this year's Danny Granger.

I like the Hibbert pick considering Speights was gone by the time 17 rolled around. He'll fill the defensive role and defend the paint - something the team definitely needs. And he can probably come in and play from day 1.

I think you guys are harpooning Bird unfairly this time around.

It's been the trend over the last few years. . so, you gotta expect it. I actually figure I might as well try to support LArry instead of bashing him

Trader Joe
06-26-2008, 11:09 PM
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->
Has anybody actually run the trade through the trade checker? It doesn't work financially. We'd have to be getting another player.

The Jumpshot Still Money
06-26-2008, 11:12 PM
the hell has Larry done to warrant our support
in the words of the Great George Costanza, Bird should do the opposite of everything he thinks
then maybe we'd have a decent team

spazzxb
06-26-2008, 11:12 PM
On a positive note, Larry just sent me $150 in return for me not watching the games next year.............thats a pretty good trade for me.


Weren't you the guy that wanted to trade everyone except Murphy for expiring contracts? Would you have watched that team?

Lou's WaHoosiers
06-26-2008, 11:15 PM
the hell has Larry done to warrant our support
in the words of the Great George Costanza, Bird should do the opposite of everything he thinks
then maybe we'd have a decent team

How can we support a man who is going to continue to setback our team to the point they are unwatchable.

Trader Joe
06-26-2008, 11:16 PM
Bird just called this trade speculation.

Plax80
06-26-2008, 11:18 PM
Jarrett Jack started 12 games on a non playoff team, and lost his job to a guy that Portland doesn't even view as a starter himself. Jarrett Jack is definately not a starting PG. But he can be a pretty good back-up.

Brandon Rush has got a chance to be a very solid player. But he has little upside and has an ACL tear in his recent history. And he will not be a good defender against NBA 2 guards, IMO. Remember, he played SF at Kansas and always got the easy assignment on the perimter playing with Chalmers and Robinson. Defending NBA 2 guards is a whole 'nother monster.

Bayless on the other hand has got a chance to be an all star player in a few years. He has all the skills Rush and Jack have combined into one player, plus the ability to create his own offense, which we don't have. A Ford-Bayless backcourt had me truly excited for this team for the first time in years. Now I am more pissed than before. All I can say is that we better find a way to put that cap space next year to really good use. And I'm talking Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer type of good use, which is not likely. Cap space is worthless in Indiana. We have never signed a descent free agent here.

Plus, we are going to have the most unathletic front court ever assembled, on a team that wants to run. I can see TJ Ford getting to the offensive end only to wonder where the hell everyone else is.

Oh and BTW, Josh McRoberts sucks!

This draft has shown me Larry Bird is among, if not the worst GM in the league. "Isaih Part Deux" if you will.

We could of had Bayless, and kept JO. We could have bought the Hornets pick at 27 and possibly gotten Hibbert there or Arthur. That is, if we had a good GM like Portland does. That guy turned thier back up PG, #13 and some cash into Jerryd Bayless and Darrel Arthur. We turned a 6 time 7 foot all star, Ike Diogu, the 11th, 17th and 41st picks into TJ Ford, Jarrett Jack, Brandon Rush and Roy Hibbert and 8 million in cap space. And we still have the bad seeds everyone wants so desperately to get rid of! Pathetic.

Bayless
Granger
Dunleavy
O'neal
Hibbert/Arthur

or

Ford
Dunleavy
Granger
Foster
Hibbert

It's a f'n no brainer!

Lets calm down.........we still got Troy Murphy and JT.

Ramitt
06-26-2008, 11:20 PM
Bird just called this trade speculation.
He can't comment on it per league rules.

Taterhead
06-26-2008, 11:20 PM
This is hilarious... Now you know how I felt watching all of Walsh's non-moves or silly moves that you knew you'd be stuck with because once he made a move moss would grow before he made another... regardless of how big a mistake he'd made. In fact, the bigger the mistake, the more likely he'd ride it out even longer rather than cutting his losses and just moving on.

Well, guess what... I actually LIKE all this activity I'm seeing out of Bird and Morway. You know how you get something done? You do something!

It would appear to me that Bird is looking for players who know what it takes to play in the NBA, or are as close to NBA ready as you are going to get. No more "potential" or "high ceiling" picks. Fine by me, what has it gotten us? I'm fine with working with known commodities and building a team around pieces that you KNOW how they'll fit rather than how you HOPE they will fit (as far as their abilities). We don't need projects or SG's in PG's bodies. We don't need soft Euro-centers. We need players ready to play the NBA game.

But here's the bigger thing, I get the feeling if THIS FO makes a mistake we're not going to paint ourselves into the corner with it and HOPE it all turns around on its own. We'll move the mistakes and cut our losses rather than letting things fester. We won't hold out for too much... we'll make a fair deal and move on. (BTW- "Fair" means fair to both parties, not just the Pacers).

It's not like we just got scum with our trade. We got players that many would've been fine with IF it didn't cost the shiny new "Bayless" model. But Bayless looks good because he's like a clean slate or clay that everyone can mold into their ideal player in their minds. ""Potential" means you haven't done it yet" ...It gets coaches fired too...

-Bball

I'm sorry to inform you of this, but Walsh's conservative style led him to build the most successful team not to win a title in the 90's. And he is widely regarded as one of the top 5-10 GMs in basketball. Bird has achieved nothing as a GM but failure. This team started to go in the tank as soon as he got here.

The truth is good teams don't make as many trades. A lot of activity means your teams a complete mess. And what gets you fired is the fact your team isn't talented enough to compete, not projects. You get fired just as many times for not taking the gamble on a guy that turns out great. You don't think the Hornets would still be in Charlotte had they kept Kobe Bryant? The whole freakin franchise left town because of not taking a gamble. In summary, playing it safe when you have nothing to lose is for losers!!

Bayless is by far a better player right now than Rush and is 3 years younger just look at the numbers. Just look at the scouting reports. Just look at porjections for the draft, Bayless was projected to go atleast 10 picks ahead of Rush in most mocks because he is better.

No way was this a good trade.

Trader Joe
06-26-2008, 11:20 PM
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->
Has anybody actually run the trade through the trade checker? It doesn't work financially. We'd have to be getting another player.

Yes, yes all of you can ignore this and continure complaining. THE TRADE DOES NOT WORK AS CURRENTLY PROPOSED!

Plax80
06-26-2008, 11:21 PM
Weren't you the guy that wanted to trade everyone except Murphy for expiring contracts? Would you have watched that team?

I'd be a lot more excited about the future if we did that...........although I guess this accomplishes the same thing for about $50mm more of the Simon's money.

Then again, I'm not related to them.............so what do I care about that.

You're right.............my bad.

SoupIsGood
06-26-2008, 11:27 PM
Yes, yes all of you can ignore this and continure complaining. THE TRADE DOES NOT WORK AS CURRENTLY PROPOSED!

Sergio incoming?

Bball
06-26-2008, 11:31 PM
I'm sorry to inform you of this, but Walsh's conservative style led him to build the most successful team not to win a title in the 90's. And he is widely regarded as one of the top 5-10 GMs in basketball. Bird has achieved nothing as a GM but failure. This team started to go in the tank as soon as he got here.

I don't really want to argue about Walsh. He's gone... Rimfire's got him...
I'm sad for Rimfire but I'm happy for the Pacers. Walsh should've retired long ago. I'll leave it at that.




Bayless is by far a better player right now than Rush and is 3 years younger just look at the numbers. Just look at the scouting reports. Just look at porjections for the draft, Bayless was projected to go atleast 10 picks ahead of Rush in most mocks because he is better.

No way was this a good trade.

All I know is Bayless fell awfully far for some reason... and AFAIK he didn't have an excuse like Granger did a couple of years back (knee injury concerns). I don't care where Bayless was 'projected' to go and that he was 'projected' to be at least 10 picks ahead of Rush. The fact is, he was TWO picks ahead of Rush. Apparently, nobody, including the Pacers had him as high as some of the 'prognosticators'.

None of that means anything now.... but 10 other teams saw someone they liked better for some reason. ...That doesn't make them right... But it doesn't automatically make the Pacers morons for not coveting him as highly as some on here have either.

-Bball

Bball
06-26-2008, 11:32 PM
Yes, yes all of you can ignore this and continure complaining. THE TRADE DOES NOT WORK AS CURRENTLY PROPOSED!

Cash?

SoupIsGood
06-26-2008, 11:33 PM
Can included cash count toward the salary-matching thing?

Taterhead
06-26-2008, 11:35 PM
Bird just called this trade speculation.

Don't you think he would of just denied it if it weren't true?

Moses
06-26-2008, 11:36 PM
I came home from work and popped on ESPN. I saw that we had drafted Bayless on the ticker at the bottom of the screen and gave a little fist pump in the air..but the ticker kept rolling and said (Rights traded to POR). That's when I just did a face palm and turned off the TV. :cry:

mrknowname
06-26-2008, 11:37 PM
honestly i like this trade. rush is a winner pure and simple and he's gives a very solid all around shooting guard

ford/jack
rush/dunleavy
granger/williams
?????/????
hibbert/nestorivic

thats a pretty solid lineup imo

Trader Joe
06-26-2008, 11:37 PM
Also something to note is that when Bird was being interviewed, he actually commented on what he thought of Bayless. He didn't comment on B. Rush.

Young
06-26-2008, 11:38 PM
honestly i like this trade. rush is a winner pure and simple and he's gives a very solid all around shooting guard

ford/jack
rush/dunleavy
granger/williams
?????/????
hibbert/nestorivic

thats a pretty solid lineup imo

I don't mean to sound like a prick but what? Solid lineup? I think if this is all we do we have a solid chance at winning the lottery next year.

SoupIsGood
06-26-2008, 11:56 PM
Can included cash count toward the salary-matching thing?

Anyone?

How do the salaries actually match up?

mrknowname
06-26-2008, 11:59 PM
I don't mean to sound like a prick but what? Solid lineup? I think if this is all we do we have a solid chance at winning the lottery next year.

obviously the larry is done with the roster yet. i imagine he'll make a trade for a pf

ur telling me that ford/rush/granger isn't solid??????

hell i think hibbert is going to be solid

SoupIsGood
06-27-2008, 12:01 AM
The Larry, I like that.

The Larry just parlayed our pick into the guy he wanted (Rush) and another decent player at a position of need (who also compliments TJ Ford well).

Baby steps. We filled one extra hole tonight.

Whtwudusay
06-27-2008, 12:03 AM
Like I alluded to on the draft thread, I'm to the point I'm fine with Brandon Rush and Jarrett Jack instead of Bayless. I'm actually getting myself excited about the upgraded perimeter for the team.

My only issue is, I would think the Pacers would have been able to get more assets (picks) for Bayless. I still have to think that the Pacers were negotiating more from a position of power than the results indicate. Hadn't the Blazers been looking to move Jack anyway? If the Pacers don't take Bayless, the Kings probably do, and it's clear the Blazers wanted a point guard (alas the Augustin rumors). So, you'd think the Pacers would be able to hold out for Portland's other first round pick, second round picks, or future picks -- in other words more assets.

The trade pretty much makes Tins irrelevant - which I'm sure we can agree was a goal.

This also re-affirms (I think) that Shawne and Marquise will probably be moved, because I believe this moves them farther down the depth chart.

I have concerns because this leaves only Murphy and Foster at the 4, unless I'm missing someone.

I don't mind the Hibbert pick.

McRoberts in this deal has to just be salary fill-in. Doesn't he? Or does he become the Damon Bailey of this decade. "On the team" but not really a viable part of the Pacers - hometown feel good kid.

Am I missing anything else?

Sollozzo
06-27-2008, 12:05 AM
If Rush was the player Bird always wanted anyway, then he made a pretty damn good move finding a way to get Jack (filling a need) as well.

Not bad.

mrknowname
06-27-2008, 12:15 AM
The Larry, I like that.

The Larry just parlayed our pick into the guy he wanted (Rush) and another decent player at a position of need (who also compliments TJ Ford well).

Baby steps. We filled one extra hole tonight.

lol i didn't mean for that to happen (damn typing errors)

Ramitt
06-27-2008, 12:16 AM
But it is cool, so run with it.

docpaul
06-27-2008, 12:24 AM
I have concerns because this leaves only Murphy and Foster at the 4, unless I'm missing someone.

Shawne can (and likely will) play the 4.

SoupIsGood
06-27-2008, 12:30 AM
Shawne can (and likely will) play the 4.

Hopefully for some other team.

I feel like we are moving toward a team with a more traditional format. Looking at all our relevant incoming players: there is absolutely no doubt about which positions Rush, Ford, Rasho, Hibbert, and Jack play. Ford is the only one who's a little bit nontraditional, being small. But Jack is built like a classic PG, Rush is the standard 6' 6 SG/SF build, and Rasho and Hibbert are big ol hosses.

We are becoming a team with clear, defined roles. That sound you hear is Bball, rejoicing.

pwee31
06-27-2008, 12:40 AM
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->
Has anybody actually run the trade through the trade checker? It doesn't work financially. We'd have to be getting another player.

I was thinking the same thing. I thought Portland had too many players as is. a 2 for 3 doesn't fix that when they drafted 3-4 more players.

I think Arthur or Dorsey may end up in Indiana as well. Just my opinion

Coop
06-27-2008, 12:46 AM
I was thinking the same thing. I thought Portland had too many players as is. a 2 for 3 doesn't fix that when they drafted 3-4 more players.

I think Arthur or Dorsey may end up in Indiana as well. Just my opinion

If so, hopefully Arthur. Dorsey is a 6'7" PF.

Bball
06-27-2008, 12:52 AM
We are becoming a team with clear, defined roles. That sound you hear is Bball, rejoicing.


You are so correct! :)

-Bball

RWB
06-27-2008, 01:06 AM
We are becoming a team with clear, defined roles. That sound you hear is Bball, rejoicing.


You are so correct! :)

-Bball

So, can we assume this legend that Mr. Bayless was the greatest combo guard to come out of college did not impress enough? :D

GenlHooker
06-27-2008, 01:08 AM
Well I have got to give Mr.Bird credit at least he got off the dime. We now have 7 new players to think about. We also have finally gotten rid of all the players involved in Piston Prize Fight. I know they are not done but its a good start. I am glad to see these things happen.

Ownagedood
06-27-2008, 01:13 AM
I hate this trade.. But im just gonna look at the brightside.. At least he didn't go draft the white redneck of the draft (whomever it be) it seems he likes those guys.. Maybe thats the whole reason he did the trade.. So he could have Josh Mcroberts on the team..


:picard:

Coop
06-27-2008, 01:20 AM
At least he didn't go draft the white redneck of the draft (whomever it be) it seems he likes those guys..


:confused:

Danny Granger, Shawne Williams, James White, Brandon Rush..

If you're referring to Stanko and Lorbek, we weren't getting anyone life-altering at those spots anyways.

Shade
06-27-2008, 01:21 AM
The Larry Bird Era has begun.

Is it over yet?

SoupIsGood
06-27-2008, 01:25 AM
I said that?

Hicks
06-27-2008, 01:41 AM
I'm slowly backing away from the ledge, and have been since this trade happened.

Initially I was in "jump off of a building" mode, then the more I listened to the others at the draft party tonight, the more I slowly, ever so slowly, calmed down.

After driving for 40+ minutes to go home, and then reading through PD tonight, I'm calming down some more.

I'll be honest, part of me is "scared" to death that we just blew an opportunity at a big-time player.

But another part of me hears this guy had an attitude. The bad kind. The bad kind the Pacers don't want or need. I hope it's true, it will make this easier.

When a guy drops like this, and it has nothing to do with injury/health concerns, that's a red flag.

When D.J. Augustin goes higher than him, that's another red flag.

Then when I thought about it the way others have said: Taking advantage of him being there to get the guy we want AND our backup PG to T.J. Ford in the process, I started to lighten up a bit as well.

I'm far from convinced this was a good idea, but I feel a lot better than I did a couple of hours ago. Have such feelings of joy and excitement from watching this guy fall into our lap, and to share those emotions with my fellow die-hards and friends, was amazing.

To have that snatched away a mere hour later (if even that long) was very, very hard for me to swallow.

My heart's still broken, by my brain's perking up to this trade.

imawhat
06-27-2008, 01:56 AM
I think it's a horrible trade, and we have a team with serious problems.

Could've been (as stated earlier).....

Bayless/Diener
Dunleavy/Daniels
Granger/Williams
O'Neal/Diogu
Murphy Foster


Instead, we now have 3 point guards, too many wings (Granger, Dunleavy, Rush, Daniels, Williams, and Graham), and no post presence. AND we gave up a guy who will most likely be a perennial all-star. Players drop in the draft every year.

Now our starting frontcourt is Murphy and Hibbert. Can anyone think of a worse rebounding combo? We're going to get KILLED on the boards.

Only our bench defense has gotten better. Our starting defense has gotten worse.

I love Rush. I really like Ford and Jack. But keeping O'Neal and drafting Bayless is far superior. I hope we reneg on both of the trades.


The only way this works out in the end is if we can trade some quantity for a quality big. I.E. Diener/Williams/Daniels for [insert name here].

Shade
06-27-2008, 02:16 AM
I'm slowly backing away from the ledge, and have been since this trade happened.

Initially I was in "jump off of a building" mode, then the more I listened to the others at the draft party tonight, the more I slowly, ever so slowly, calmed down.

After driving for 40+ minutes to go home, and then reading through PD tonight, I'm calming down some more.

I'll be honest, part of me is "scared" to death that we just blew an opportunity at a big-time player.

But another part of me hears this guy had an attitude. The bad kind. The bad kind the Pacers don't want or need. I hope it's true, it will make this easier.

When a guy drops like this, and it has nothing to do with injury/health concerns, that's a red flag.

When D.J. Augustin goes higher than him, that's another red flag.

Then when I thought about it the way others have said: Taking advantage of him being there to get the guy we want AND our backup PG to T.J. Ford in the process, I started to lighten up a bit as well.

I'm far from convinced this was a good idea, but I feel a lot better than I did a couple of hours ago. Have such feelings of joy and excitement from watching this guy fall into our lap, and to share those emotions with my fellow die-hards and friends, was amazing.

To have that snatched away a mere hour later (if even that long) was very, very hard for me to swallow.

My heart's still broken, by my brain's perking up to this trade.

I still hate it.

Kemo
06-27-2008, 03:01 AM
Heh you know honestly , I see Kareem deciding to stay with Indiana , should we want him back...
I have heard alot of stories about the Rush brothers , and how good they were in their hometown playin together yadda yadda yadda ...

I do NOT see KAreem passing up the chance ot play on the same team as his brother, even for a lil better offer...


Could you imagine our SG position to be filled by Rush/Rush

their nicknames could be Brush/Krush LMMFAO!!!!

the 1-2 combo .. haha

I would like to see them play together though , even for a short time... out of curiousity sake.. and nickname's-sake lmfao!!

Shade
06-27-2008, 03:39 AM
I said that?

Oops, meant to quote Anthem. :o

Rajah Brown
06-27-2008, 06:17 AM
I still don't like the trade because I'm not sold on Rush as a high
caliber, starting SG (which is a must in O'B's system) at the NBA
level.

But I suspect Bayless will make about as many All-Star teams as
Ben Gordon will.

Will Galen
06-27-2008, 06:25 AM
Heh you know honestly , I see Kareem deciding to stay with Indiana , should we want him back...
I have heard alot of stories about the Rush brothers , and how good they were in their hometown playin together yadda yadda yadda ...

I do NOT see KAreem passing up the chance ot play on the same team as his brother, even for a lil better offer...


Could you imagine our SG position to be filled by Rush/Rush

their nicknames could be Brush/Krush LMMFAO!!!!

the 1-2 combo .. haha

I would like to see them play together though , even for a short time... out of curiousity sake.. and nickname's-sake lmfao!!

We're not going to be signing any free agents, even are own. We have 16 players and are to close to the tax line.

DisplacedKnick
06-27-2008, 06:44 AM
I don't really want to argue about Walsh. He's gone... Rimfire's got him...
I'm sad for Rimfire but I'm happy for the Pacers. Walsh should've retired long ago. I'll leave it at that.



He'll be fine - if we only have him for 3-4 years.

And when you compare him to the last 2 GM's - I'll take him,

Roaming Gnome
06-27-2008, 07:32 AM
I think I threw the biggest fit at the party last night, but as Hicks mentioned... After hearing some of the logic behind it, I cooled my jets.

I'm not upset about the trade. In principle, it was pretty savvy to get the guy you wanted in the end along with a guy that is going to back up your starter. We went from being devastated at point guard to having nearly a full rotation in the back court.

Anyway, in the end...How many games did Bayless win, let alone play for an NBA team to be this upset?

Justin Tyme
06-27-2008, 10:18 AM
If so, hopefully Arthur. Dorsey is a 6'7" PF.


We can only hope so! I still can't believe Bird didn't/couldn't get another pick out of Portland. If nothing else, go back to Portland and tell them Herb said it wasn't enough. Ask for Arthur or Dorsey. If not then expand the trade with Williams for Frye. The trade can't come about/completed until the 9th, so there is time to get it changed.

Trader Joe
06-27-2008, 10:31 AM
I think I threw the biggest fit at the party last night, but as Hicks mentioned... After hearing some of the logic behind it, I cooled my jets.

I'm not upset about the trade. In principle, it was pretty savvy to get the guy you wanted in the end along with a guy that is going to back up your starter. We went from being devastated at point guard to having nearly a full rotation in the back court.

Anyway, in the end...How many games did Bayless win, let alone play for an NBA team to be this upset?

Where'd you and Shade go last night? You both disappeared right after the trade was announced.

Mourning
06-27-2008, 10:45 AM
ur telling me that ford/rush/granger isn't solid??????

The keyword is "beying" in your sentence IMO. I don't think it's very solid for the coming year. The year after that, very likely could be solid.

Wu-Gambino
06-27-2008, 12:59 PM
Bayless/Diener
Dunleavy/Daniels
Granger/Williams
O'Neal/Diogu
Murphy Foster

Even if this were the better lineup, whould it really matter? How many games would O'Neal last before he gets injured? Obviously, Bayless would be the question mark, but if for some reason he would not pan out, we would be stuck with Diener as our starter again. We would have the exact team as last year.

I was skeptical of Bird before the draft, but this whole week has led me to gain a lot of confidence in him. First of all, I think the Jermaine to Toronto trade was great. I think that many of us had come to the conclusion that JO will not work in this present system. JO is getting older, we're trying to get younger and JO plays his best when he has another strong presence up front. The Pacers either had the option of trying to find that other option, keeping JO and going through the same thing we went through last year, or come to the reality that JO was not going to work here any more and trade him for some much needed PG help. They chose the last option, and I am pretty happy with what we got. I don't know if Ford is our solution at PG, but he's definitely an upgrade over Tinsley.

The bottom line is that this is the first steps towards a rebuilding process that may take some time. I don't know if this team is good enough for the playoffs, and I imagine that some other deals are in the works. Either way, for the first time in awhile, I am excited for the Pacers.

Arcadian
06-27-2008, 01:00 PM
Safe trade. Disappointing. Drafting Hilbert was worse.

Our backcourt is much improved. Our front court is to the point where Hilbert could see some time.

JayRedd
06-27-2008, 01:07 PM
He'll be fine - if we only have him for 3-4 years.

And when you compare him to the last 2 GM's - I'll take him,

Hey, DK...did you hear when Stu Scott said "DJ White is the first Indiana Hoosier taken by Detroit since Isiah Thomas" and MSG erupted in boos?

It was fun.

RWB
06-27-2008, 01:23 PM
We can only hope so! I still can't believe Bird didn't/couldn't get another pick out of Portland. If nothing else, go back to Portland and tell them Herb said it wasn't enough. Ask for Arthur or Dorsey. If not then expand the trade with Williams for Frye. The trade can't come about/completed until the 9th, so there is time to get it changed.

Justin, you can't do that in business or just plain ethics. If the Pacers were to pull a move like that how many teams would be willing to deal with them in the future? What prevents Toronto from going 'eh we changed our mind you go ahead and keep O'Neal'.

Honor is a big thing and no one, no one, wants to deal with someone who goes gotcha I was only foolin.