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Will Galen
06-26-2008, 01:14 PM
Raptors Call O'Neal Trade \"Speculation\"

http://sports.excite.com/news/06262008/v3255.html
Jun 26, 12:51 PM (ET)

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) -The Indiana Pacers denied on Thursday reports of a deal to trade six-time All-Star forward Jermaine O'Neal to the Toronto Raptors for point guard T.J. Ford, center Rasho Nesterovic, the 17th pick in the draft and a player to be named. The deal was reported by Yahoo, citing an unidentified NBA executive, and The Indianapolis Star, which cited a person familiar with the talks that it did not name.

Pacers spokesman David Benner said those reports were premature.

"There is no trade to announce. It is all speculation," Benner told The Associated Press.
Raptors general manager Bryan Colangelo told The Canadian Press on Wednesday that he was in the midst of "four or five" conversations with teams involving Ford and a combination of Toronto's No. 17 pick and/or other Raptors players leading up to Thursday night's draft.

A deal can't be finalized until July 1, when Ford's base-year compensation tag comes off the books (http://sports.excite.com/news/06262008/v3255.html#), and Yahoo and the Star both said O'Neal and Ford must still pass physicals.

The Associated Press left messages seeking comment Thursday for O'Neal's agent, Arn Tellem.
O'Neal, who will turn 30 before entering his 13th season, has a contract paying him more than $44 million over the next two seasons.

The trade would leave the Pacers without their most-prominent player since Reggie Miller retired three years ago. It would, however, give them another first-round draft pick to go with their No. 11 selection as they look to rebuild after missing the playoffs two consecutive years.

Acquiring Ford also would give them a possible replacement at point guard for Jamaal Tinsley, who is unpopular with fans and has missed much time with injuries in recent seasons.

Ford has his own health problems, including being diagnosed in 2001 with spinal stenosis, a narrowing of the openings of the vertebra the spinal cord runs through. He suffered a neck injury in February 2004 and was sidelined until the 2005-06 season.
Ford averaged a career-high 14 points and 7.9 assists in 2006-07 as the Raptors won the Atlantic Division. Last season, Ford missed 24 games (http://sports.excite.com/news/06262008/v3255.html#) after hitting his head on the court during a December game and ended up averaging 12.1 points and 6.1 assists.

O'Neal averaged 13.6 points and 6.7 rebounds in 42 games last season, missing 33 games in midseason because of pain and swelling from an injured left knee. He tore meniscus cartilage in his left knee during the 2006-07 season and had surgery in April 2007, but it hadn't healed fully by last fall's training camp.

O'Neal and the Pacers have struggled since 2003-04 when the team had the NBA's best record at 61-21 and he finished third in the MVP voting after averaging 20.1 points and 10 rebounds. He was suspended the following season for 15 games for his role in the brawl with Detroit Pistons fans. He has missed 122 games the past four seasons.

Nesterovic, a 7-footer from Slovenia, averaged 7.8 points and 4.8 rebounds last season in his ninth NBA season.
----------------

Maybe the trade depends on whether a certain player is available to the Pacers at 17, who knows?

2minutes twowa
06-26-2008, 01:16 PM
Please tell me this isn't gonna drag on forever:(

Trader Joe
06-26-2008, 01:18 PM
If this doesn't go through, I'm gonna seriously consider going PFFL. Well not really, but still this would suck majorly, and I'd get blamed for it lol.

Putnam
06-26-2008, 01:21 PM
Benner says, "There is no trade to announce."

We already knew the medical checks and July 1 had to roll around before the announcement.

No worries.

Cactus Jax
06-26-2008, 01:22 PM
Well I think part of this trade banks on who the Pacers want at 17 and if they're available.

Kegboy
06-26-2008, 01:23 PM
and I'd get blamed for it lol.

Damn straight. :box:

Unclebuck
06-26-2008, 01:24 PM
Yes, there is no deal to announce, the league has not approved it so there isn't a trade. The teams however have agrred to it, their lawyers and cap people say it will work.

So the deal is agred to, but can't be announced until July 9th.

But it will get done, don't worry about the teams denial, they have to do that

Peck
06-26-2008, 01:26 PM
As I said in my post, I wasn't sure this was a done deal. Seemed kind of sketchy to be out stating a trade as a fact.

This will be a true black eye for the STAR if this proves to be false. Meaning they followed the lead of an internet news service and reported something as fact based on the conversation of someone close to the source.

I have a feeling that where there is smoke there is fire, but I am also afraid this may have been premature.

Let's just hope for everyones sake that this actually happens.

count55
06-26-2008, 01:27 PM
Yes, there is no deal to announce, the league has not approved it so there isn't a trade. The teams however have agrred to it, their lawyers and cap people say it will work.
So the deal is agred to, but can't be announced until July 9th.

But it will get done, don't worry about the teams denial, they have to do that


Is this your view of the situation, do you have inside info, or am I missing something that was written and confirmed somewhere?

RWB
06-26-2008, 01:28 PM
So, will pick 41 be the clue we're looking for that says this is real?

Shade
06-26-2008, 01:31 PM
Meh, this is just legal-speak.

tadscout
06-26-2008, 01:32 PM
Yes, there is no deal to announce, the league has not approved it so there isn't a trade. The teams however have agrred to it, their lawyers and cap people say it will work.

So the deal is agred to, but can't be announced until July 9th.

But it will get done, don't worry about the teams denial, they have to do that

:amen:

Remember all, the league has rules against talking about this sort of stuff until it's official... so what else do you expect the teams to say/do???

Unclebuck
06-26-2008, 01:33 PM
Is this your view of the situation, do you have inside info, or am I missing something that was written and confirmed somewhere?

No inside info, but every year during the moritorium (july 1st through whenever the signings start) there are always agreed to signings, agreed to trades that cannot be announced until the moritorium is lifted.

Having said that sure, something could happen, players might not pass physicals, or who knows. But a lot of things could happen. Earthquake could hit Indianapolis and we all die - but that isn't going to happen. I firmly believe the trade as reported will take place. One thing I'm 100% sure about, don't pay any atention to what The pacers and raptors say on this because they cannot confirm the trade right now.

Bottom line is somehting drastic would have to happen for the trade not to take place

Shade
06-26-2008, 01:35 PM
No inside info, but every year during the moritorium (july 1st through whenever the signings start) there are always agreed to signings, agreed to trades that cannot be announced until the moritorium is lifted.

Having said that sure, something could happen, players might not pass physicals, or who knows. But a lot of things could happen. Earthquake could hit Indianapolis and we all die - but that isn't going to happen. I firmly believe the trade as reported will take place. One thing I'm 100% sure about, don't pay any atention to what The pacers and raptors say on this because they cannot confirm the trade right now.

Bottom line is somehting drastic would have to happen for the trade not to take place

Wanna bet? :eyebrow:

grace
06-26-2008, 01:39 PM
A trade isn't a trade until all the paper work is signed. You are all setting yourselves up for weeks of ulcers waiting for this to happen.

I wouldn't want to be Indy and Shade if JO and Jamaal are still here in November.

Trader Joe
06-26-2008, 01:43 PM
I already put a disclaimer in my thread.

Even if JO Is here this fall, I'm just gonna pretend he isn't.

blanket
06-26-2008, 01:43 PM
Raptors Call O'Neal Trade "Speculation"

Pacers spokesman David Benner said those reports were premature.

"There is no trade to announce. It is all speculation," Benner told The Associated Press.

:confused:

LG33
06-26-2008, 01:46 PM
(He got traded too...Shhh...)

Dukins
06-26-2008, 01:49 PM
sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

btowncolt
06-26-2008, 01:59 PM
Wanna bet? :eyebrow:

Either way you win!

Oneal07
06-26-2008, 02:00 PM
Yeah, whateva. Speculation my ***

Dr. Goldfoot
06-26-2008, 02:01 PM
NBA.com has it reported as an agreement based on physicals.

CableKC
06-26-2008, 02:05 PM
In relation to this thread.....this little blurb in the already-posted article by Hollinger sticks out:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=Onealtrade-080625


The trade can't be completed until July 9, however, because Ford is a base-year compensation player until the first day that next season's cap rules kick in (July 1), and so the trade won't work under the cap until then. From then until July 9, the league has a moratorium on trades and signings. Given all that, the trade won't be official for a fortnight.

Instead, this will be the trade that everybody knows about but nobody acknowledges publicly. There will be no announcements or news conferences and it might mess with some summer-league plans. But the teams are exchanging medical information, and right now everything appears to be a go.

By the way, this delay also means there are still two weeks for other teams to get in on this trade and make it more than a two-way deal. (With luck, maybe it morphs into one of those indecipherable five-way deals that somehow involve the rights to an international player who was drafted five years ago but never got a sniff of the league. I have visions of Roberto DueŮas and Sergei Lishouk waiting anxiously by the phone to find out their new "team.")
I'm inclined to go with UB and Shade on this and say that it's just the legal policy to say that there is no trade until the papers are signed....but still think that there can be some cold feet if something comes up.

I guess we just have to wait for the Beat Reporters to report on JONeal's workout.

Also...I'm intrigued and worried about the 2nd part about how there is still time to make changes to the deal until July 9th. I'm hoping that JONeal comes up relatively healthy in the medical and that the Raptors don't ask for more.

Unclebuck
06-26-2008, 02:47 PM
JO has confirmed that he is going to Toronto.

count55
06-26-2008, 02:50 PM
JO has confirmed that he is going to Toronto.

Hey, Buck, sorry if that earlier question came off as challenging you or your credibility or being curt. I didn't mean to. Your wording was so firm, that I wanted to make sure I understood where you were coming from before I used the information anywhere else.

Oneal07
06-26-2008, 02:52 PM
:)

Unclebuck
06-26-2008, 03:02 PM
Hey, Buck, sorry if that earlier question came off as challenging you or your credibility or being curt. I didn't mean to. Your wording was so firm, that I wanted to make sure I understood where you were coming from before I used the information anywhere else.

No, no problem at all.

grace
06-26-2008, 03:05 PM
JO has confirmed that he is going to Toronto.

Didn't he tell his daughter last year they were moving to LA?

count55
06-26-2008, 03:07 PM
Here's kind of a unique way for the Pacers to confirm it:

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/080626_trade_analysts.html


Analysts view reported trade as "win-win"



O'Neal-Ford trade reports rampant
Pacers Draft War Room

Editor's note: Though no announcement has been made, numerous media outlets have reported an agreement in principle between the Pacers and Raptors sending Jermaine O'Neal to Toronto in exchange for T.J. Ford, Rasho Nesterovic, the No. 17 pick in tonight's NBA Draft and a player to be named later. What follows are excerpts of the analysis by NBA analysts of the reported deal.


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John Hollinger, ESPN.com Insider
Read the full story
It's rare that I like a trade from both sides, but once in a while one comes along that's mutually beneficial. Wednesday's deal between Indiana and Toronto is just such a deal. Ö both teams are repackaging their assets to get into a far better position than they were before, and for either side, the downside seems pretty minimal.

Let's take a look, first, from the Pacers' side:

They got something for Jermaine O'Neal: This wasn't easy, not with O'Neal being owed $44 million over the next two seasons and his run of poor health the past few years. While his name has come up a lot in trade conversations over the past year, talks never got far because the other side always flinched at his salary.

They got a point guard: Ford was excellent last year when he played, ranking sixth among all point guards with a 20.4 player efficiency rating (PER). And while Ford's spinal stenosis condition is obviously a concern, I'm told the team doctors carefully went over his medical information and concluded there isn't anything immediately career-threatening.

They can trade Tinsley: Obviously, this involves finding somebody who wants to take him, but he was their only true starting point guard. Now they have his replacement.

The draft is their oyster: Prior to this trade, the Pacers seemed locked into taking D.J. Augustin at No. 11 to resolve the point guard issue. They still might -- forming an all-Longhorn point guard rotation -- but they're also freed to pursue other talents that may unexpectedly fall their way (like Brook Lopez). And with the No. 17 pick, they can grab a second young big man -- heavens knows this draft has enough of them -- to quickly rebuild the frontcourt rotation.

Cap space! Ah, yes, now we get to the big kahuna. By taking on the expiring contracts of Nesterovic and Baston and taking back $2.5 million less than O'Neal makes to begin with, the Pacers put themselves in position to be about $16 million under the cap next summer (depending on where the cap number comes in, which we won't know until next July). They can pursue a big free agent (or take one in a trade) to team up with Ford, Danny Granger and the draft picks, and they'll have the next generation of Pacers up and running.

So, big picture, the Pacers finally start over. For the past couple seasons they've been hemming and hawing about whether to go in a new direction; now Bird has set a definitive course. As a result, look for other dominoes to fall in Indy -- starting with Tinsley and possibly including Troy Murphy and Jeff Foster. Ö

So the upshot is, this deal absolutely works for both teams. I expect the Raptors to be significantly better next season as a result of this deal, as it takes a player who was utterly redundant and converts him into a solution for the team's single biggest weakness.

And I expect the Pacers' rebuilding to be much smoother and faster now that they've jettisoned O'Neal and received '09 cap space and two good young pieces in return.

The players come out of it in better shape, too. O'Neal and Ford get new leases on life after being sprung from difficult situations. Bosh finally gets a frontcourt partner to do the dirty work for him. Calderon gets starter's minutes and some added salary leverage. Even throw-ins Nesterovic and Baston are likely to get more burn in Indy than they would have in Toronto. Only Bargnani loses.

So it's a win-win all-around. Kudos to both Bird and Colangelo for recognizing the mutual benefit.



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Chris Mannix, SI.Com
Read the full story
O'Neal may just be the first domino to fall in Indiana. Sources say Indiana was willing to trade everyone but small forward Danny Granger at the deadline. "They made it clear they were willing to blow it up," a Western Conference executive said. Contrary to reports, front-office sources say the Pacers have been shopping forward Mike Dunleavy -- who is owed $29.3 million over the next three seasons -- while showing some reluctance to part with center Jeff Foster, who is considered a favorite of coach Jim O'Brien.

With O'Neal out of the picture, the Pacers are now in full rebuilding mode. With Ford and the remaining three years and $25 million of his contract now on board, incumbent point guard Jamaal Tinsley is expected to be moved or have the remaining three years and $21.4 million on his contract bought out. Pacers president Larry Bird also told local reporters this week that second-year forward Shawne Williams is "on thin ice."

Ford, however, is a risk. An ultra-quick, streaky-shooting point guard, Ford has the talent to be a 30-to-35-minute starter. But Ford missed 13 games with a neck injury last season, the same injury that caused him to miss all of the 2004-2005 season. There is literally the possibility his career could end at any moment.

For Toronto, acquiring O'Neal means that All-Star power forward Chris Bosh will finally have some help in the frontcourt. Despite an injury-plagued 2007-08 season, it is widely believed that O'Neal's knee problems are not an issue anymore and that had he been playing for a contender, he might have been able to play late last season. While not a pure center, O'Neal averaged 19.6 points and 9.4 rebounds in 2006-07 and, when healthy, is still a force in the pivot.



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Andrew Perna, RealGM.com
Read the full story
Iím not against the deal, but Iím not enamored with it either.

Ford would be a nice option at the point, to either completely replace or challenge Tinsley, but his health issues have worried me enough to hesitate dealing a guy like OíNeal.

Maybe Iím a little jaded in thinking that OíNeal still has enough left in him to be an All-Star, but I donít think Fordís ceiling is nearly as high as OíNealís even with his history of injury problems. There have been reports in recent weeks that Jermaine is close to full-strength, but with his track record over the last few years no one will believe that until they see it.

The question becomes whatís better Ė an above average point guard for seventy games or a 20/10 power forward for sixty?

The addition of Nesterovic to the deal is nice, especially because it will give the Pacers some cap relief next summer (a year earlier than OíNeal will give the Raptors). I wouldnít expect him to do much for Indiana on the court though.

What really intrigues me about this deal is the possible inclusion of the seventeenth pick in the draft. After having no first rounder last season, having a pair this year would make it feel as though Christmas has come six months early in Indianapolis.

With both the eleventh and seventeenth picks, Indiana could grab themselves a pair of studs to contribute right away. They could take a point guard to provide insurance to Ford and Tinsley (if heís somehow still in town), while selecting a big man to help fill the void left by OíNeal just a few picks apart.

Youíd have to figure that the Pacers would get rid of Tinsley by any means necessary if they acquire Ford, and opt to grab someone with point guard skills in the Lottery.

If Bird trades for Ford and/or someone like D.J. Augustin (a fellow Longhorn), Russell Westbrook or Eric Gordon falls into Indianaís lap at No. 11, Iíd almost advise that he offer Tinsley up for a gas card and a pack of cigarettes. And I donít even smoke.



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Eric Pincus, Hoopsworld.com
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O'Neal has been on the block for over a year. If he's finally healthy, the Raptors will have a formidable front line paring with Chris Bosh and O'Neal. Moving Ford clears up their confusion at the point, assuming they are able to re-sign restricted free agent Jose Calderon. A source says the Raptors wouldn't have moved TJ if they weren't very confident that Calderon would return.

Toronto is now without any pick in the draft and will look to add a steady backup at the one to Calderon. It's a pretty big gamble considering O'Neal's salary and knee problems, but the Raptors could be getting a lot better defensively should the deal go through.

It's best to call it a win-win since the Pacers were desperate to add a true point guard. They've shopped Jamaal Tinsley to no avail considering he has three more years at $7.2 per and a questionable reputation (health, attitude, etc).

Ford also has significant injury issues (spine) but should be a good fit with Mike Dunleavy Jr. and Danny Granger. The Pacers have a long way to go before they're a playoff caliber team. At 17, they may add a big man like Robin Lopez.

At least now they can move on without the albatross contract of O'Neal ($45.4 million over the next two seasons).



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Bob Kravitz, Indianapolis Star (published June 24)
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This deal, or at least a similar deal that would provide the Pacers with a new point guard and salary cap flexibility, has to happen, for several reasons:

First (and second and third), it would get Indiana out from under the massive O'Neal contract, which will pay him $21.3 million this year and $22.9 million next year. The Pacers cannot rebuild as long as O'Neal's contract is on the books, eating up nearly one-third of the team's annual payroll.

This is not a shot at O'Neal, whose ultimate legacy should be that he did a lot of good things on the court and off here in Indianapolis. It wasn't his fault that he was the face of a dysfunctional team; he wasn't the one getting into trouble.

His biggest problem was that he got hurt a lot, and even that was not entirely his fault. After Brad Miller left in free agency, O'Neal never again had a solid big man by his side to take the brunt of the defensive beating.

Was he the hardest worker? No. Was he the perfect leader? No. But he was the best player on a flawed team.

It would provide the Pacers with a solid, if injury-prone, point guard.

Ford is a risk. He missed the 2004-05 season with a serious neck injury, and he may be one bad fall from retirement. But he played 72 games in 2005-06, 75 games in 2006-07, and returned from an injury to play 51 games last season.

If he gets hurt and is forced to quit, insurance will pay 80 percent of his contract, and his cap number ($8 million this year, $8.5 million next year) will be wiped off the team's books one year after the injury.

Ford's game, which relies on speed and breaking down perimeter defenders, is perfectly suited for coach Jim O'Brien's free-wheeling, 3-point-happy offense.

The downside is his defense, which was an issue for the Pacers on the perimeter all season. Because of his size and health, he's a defensive liability. But he gives the Pacers freedom to make Jamaal Tinsley disappear, and any moves that make Tinsley vanish and move O'Neal's contract have to be viewed as major steps forward. Ö

That would be a nice day's work for Bird, if he could replace Tinsley, move O'Neal's contract, acquire an expiring deal and add a second first-round draft choice.



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Dave Feschuk, Toronto Star
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While adding O'Neal might help the .500 squad make an incremental improvement this coming season, his arrival in Toronto marks a step backward for a once up-and-coming club. Thirty in October, Jermaine might be better known as Jer-pain or Jer-moan for his alarming history of injury and gimme-the-ball immaturity. But Colangelo's suddenly not-so-young Raptors weren't exactly dealing from strength. Ö

Nine months ago, Colangelo said the core of the club was Chris Bosh, Ford and Bargnani. Now Ford's heading out, Bargnani's a boot-camp summer away from being declared a bust, and Bosh is working on his game ... as a Jay Leno contributor. Comedy is Bosh's only remedy, perhaps, because he and Toronto's fans never expected it to get so lame so quickly.

Does O'Neal get them to the second round? His health's a bigger question mark than Ford's, and he's a worse teammate than Nesterovic with, recent returns suggest, only marginally better stats. Even if he's better than that, remember Colangelo's vision of the Euro-tinged, 100-shots-a-night Raptors? Now they'll indulge O'Neal's painfully deliberate, averse-to-contact post game. If you thought Ford was a chemistry problem, wait until Jer-mine goes without his touches.

Sure looks like the francise's media outlet is selling the deal...

Ownagedood
06-26-2008, 03:25 PM
Don't worry guys.. The only reason they actually CANT announce there has been a trade.. is cuz Ford can't even be traded yet.. We still have to wait until July 1st before he can even be traded... So there is "no trade to announce" because its against the rules to trade TJ Ford before that date.