View Full Version : Odd thoughts heading into the draft

06-26-2008, 05:08 AM
Well, I'm going to dust the cobweb off of this and see if I can remember even how to write one of these.

I have been a Pacers fan all of my life, I have been a ticket holder in some capacity since 1985. I've seen it about as low as it can be and I've seen us almost reach the mountain top.

But this is the first time that I can think of that I can actually say that everything is so differant I don't know what to expect.

Think about the major earth shattering changes our franchise has undergone in just one short year.

We have a new coach.

We have a new style of play.

We have a new lineup.

And most importantly and earth shattering of all, we have a new person calling the shots for the Indiana Pacers.

Think about that for a min. this is it, there is no more Donnie Walsh at the helm.

Most of you reading this have not even been alive when Donnie wasn't calling the shots here and those of you that are old enough have to go back to when Ronald Reagan was the President to remember this.

I didn't really say much when Donnie left and I'm not even going to say much now. Donnie was what Donnie was, nothing more and nothing less.

But with Bird and Co. it's a whole new world, a world that many of you already hate with a passion but frankly I am accepting it like coming out of swine house into a breath of fresh air.

First and formost I love the fact that Bird is not content and he doesn't pull any punches and play political face saving games by pretending to be content.

I like the fact that he seems to have been either working the phones or having Morroway working the phones since the day the last shot went up.

I think he actually has a new direction for us to go and I think we may get there.

Now that is not to say that I am all for Bird or for his plans, I just am all for a new direction. Only time will tell if he is right or wrong, many of you have already judged him wrong (some for personal reasons other for the fact that he played for the Celtics). But it would be nice to give him 2-3 years to see what he can do.

I'm actually excited to see what we do tonight. We may come away with a jem or a turd at the 11 but I want to see what we can do.

I guess I might as well go ahead and address the proposed trade at hand.

Frankly I'm skeptical of this. Not the trade itself but I don't know to actually believe it or not because what are we going on here? A source close to the situation? Man I hope that source is either the GM of the Raptors or Bird or someone high up.

But for the time being let me assume that this is a done deal.

First I want to address O'Neal fans. I am sorry for your loss, having had to sit through my favorite player be traded three times in the past (Billy Knight x2 and Dale Davis 1) I know what you are going through. It can be bitter and downright painfull when this happens. For you I feel very sorry and you have my sympathy's.

As to J.O. himself, I am not going to be a hypocrite here.

I wish him the best of luck, I hope that a new team and a healthy leg gets him back to enjoying playing the game again. I think his last 3 years here have been a burden on him and his enjoyment of the game has gone down.

From the teams standpoint, this is probably as good as they could get for Jermaine. There are other trades out there that you could argue might have been better but the truth of the matter is none of them were going to be earth shattering in nature and none were going to net you a star in return.

T.J. Ford will step right in and be the starting point guard. If he works or not only time will tell. The 17th pick might give us a decent player to work with and lord knows right now we need talent on our team. Rasho will be the lumbering oaf he has been for years but is a big body and and expiring contract that can either be packaged away or used. This will give Foster a break, heck he may even start over Jeff I don't know.

Now here is the intersting question. Who is the throw in.

To everyones suprise I am hoping that it actually is Baston. I believe Macio will fit perfectly into O'Briens needs. Other than being able to hit the three, he is quick, he is strong, he is a good passer, he is capable of guarding both big and quick players and he has some small offensive capabilities.

If we get Graham then the question is, do we keep both? Oh the irony that he was selected one pick ahead of Danny.

So to recap, we get a starting point guard. We get a young player. We may even get a starting center (that should tell you how bad our center spot is btw) and we will get a servicable backup.

Here is the thing, I don't think we are done dealing either.

How does all of this impact the team?


1. We are finally totally committed to moving to a differant direction than what we have in the past.

2. Danny Granger is now officially the top dog.

I am going to make some statements here and I don't intend them to be jabs at O'Neal but take them for what they are worth.

I am thrilled beyond belief that I no longer have to live through the "once J.O. comes back healthy we will be a contender" thinking that we have seen for years.

I am even more thrilled that I never ever have to worry again about whether whoever the coach is will totally throw out all other offensive options once Jermaine comes back into the lineup.

I am not convinced that the league is as small ball dominated as some of you are, I still believe that we are getting ready to once again go into the big man era like we had in the 80's & 90's. So I am not sold 100% on the way Bird is leaning towards building the team. But I understand, it's hard to find real talented centers. Hence why you should never throw away a center who......Oh never mind, it's a new era and we'll just let that go.

As to Jamaal, who cares. I can honestly say I think he is gone and I no longer care what we get for him. I just don't want us to give away a pick or something to have another team take him.

With Jermaine and Jamaal gone, that is the last of the brawl era pacers (well Foster was there but no one associates him with that incident).

I think the team may now be able to exercise that demon and start to rebuild the trust in the community. But again, time will tell.

I am really looking forward to the Danny Granger era of the Pacers. This off-season has been p.r. gold for him, IMO. I think both he and the Pacers have done everything right in getting him out in front of the public.

I never understood why there was anyone willing to trade him to make room for Shawn Williams. I think Shawn had promise and still does, but Danny to me is a special player.

I don't want to compare him to Reggie here because he won't reach that level but he does share two traits with Reggie that I absolutely love.

1. The madder he gets the better he plays.

2. He is tough. When he gets knocked down he gets right back up and goes right at it again.

I just wish they would set his position so the poor guy does not have to keep rotating all over the floor. He is NOT a shooting guard for God's sake. He is 6'9" and plays like a pit bull. He is at his best position playing the three.

I still have a great concern over our coaching.

Yes I will freely admit it, that Pheonix game sucked all of the life and joy out of me. I didn't enjoy a single game the rest of the season really. I still don't understand that game but I guess I don't have to.

However with the new direction that we seem to be taking I am willing to jump back into the frey and give him one more chance (like I have a choice).

However I will still say this, no matter how much I try I still hate the three point shot in general and despise it being used as a gimmick like we do.

I just hope that maybe some new players will help us improve our defense and Ford I am hoping is a light year leap ahead of any of our p.g.'s from last year.

In short I guess I will say this.

It's no seceret, I haven't really liked this team much since the 2000 season. Oh sure I supported them and rooted for them to win, but frankly I didn't like over half of the players and in some cases I downright hated a few.

But with the new direction from the top, a new leader on the club and a new future for the team I think I am now back to where I was with the team in the early 90's (not the good teams of the mid to late 90's but the early 90's) where I am at least hopefull.

Hmmmmmmm..... Honestly I wonder if this trade in any way will affect Ike Diagu? I mean he didn't play last year when J.O. wasn't with the team, but I wonder if O'Brien was just talking to be talking or if he meant that a full year with the same staff will help? Time will tell.

As is tradition here, I will now provide you with the cultural enlightenment and joy that only dancing fruit can give you.

:dance::pepper::carrot::pineapple:mango::cucumber: :rock::dorange::apple::bdance::dance3::bgroovy:

Ok, like I said it's been awhile. Hope I didn't bore you to tears (for those who bothered to read it all) :djmixing:

06-26-2008, 05:39 AM
I read it all. A very informing post. Loved it all.

I agree that now with JO, tins and all the brawl players gone (excl. foster) its for the best.

Also Granger plays so much better without JO.

Will Galen
06-26-2008, 08:01 AM
Well then . . . nice but short!

06-26-2008, 10:46 AM
Peck, I've had conversations with others so I know I'm not alone when I say this. We miss you! (In a completely heterosexual way. That that there's anything wrong with that.)

The thought is out there that you've stepped back when you became an admin. I don't know if that's part of the deal for you, or just your overall feelings towards the team but I hope you get closer to the Peck that was here when I first joined.

As good of posters as we have, and I'm really not taking anything away from them, I've always thought of you as the driving force. You can really initiate discussions and can put your thoughts into enjoyable posts.

I really hope you get more interested in the team and come back into form.

06-26-2008, 10:52 AM
Good to see you back.

Doug in CO
06-26-2008, 11:04 AM
Well, for a few personal reasons - plus the total apathy I had towards this team that increased year over year after the brawl, I have been gone for almost a year... so while I don't have much time - I wanted to say great post Peck... I know we will forever be linked ny our opinion of DW...

I am scared that Larry will get a European or a big white stiff at 11.

And for me, the housecleaning and cleansing will be complete when Foster is gone. I am sorry - hate his game and the sooner he is gone the better.

I am excited about tonight... so for the first time in years they have my adrenaline going.


06-26-2008, 11:05 AM
Peck, I agree and hope that were are indeed not done dealing. We still have a lot of work to do and we actually have a few pieces to work with for a change.

Granger is the only semi-untouchable player as far as I'm concerned.

06-26-2008, 11:53 AM
A DouginOH sighting!!

06-26-2008, 12:34 PM
A DouginOH sighting!!

Now he can hate the Knicks and DW at the same time. It's like heaven with strawberries.

06-26-2008, 12:55 PM
Ah, my kindred spirits from the "I hate the team I love" purgatory.

Its going to get worse before it gets better, we all know that. Most importantly, this is a trade that starts the process of getting worse in order to get better.

This trade won't improve the team for '08-09. Rasho is a slight upgrade over Foster because he's slightly more physical. Then he's cap space. Baston is an overpaid twelfth-man and then he's cap space. TJ Ford is not an improvement over a healthy, happy, motivated Tinsley and only a slight improvement over MIA-Tinsley. That's about the equivalent of JO missing another 40 games.

Two draft picks in the teens historically don't have a high percentage of turning into long-term starters/ all-stars.

Granger, plus cap space, plus 11 and 17 plus high draft picks over the next couple of years and there could be light at the end of the tunnel for the first time since 2004 (or before). Back when a few of us recognized deeper problems were being temporarily masked by a decent W-L% in the regular season.

As much as I do like Granger, I don't see him as an all-star. There are better SFs. This team needs to figure out how to acquire an all-star or two from this mess.

And let's face it, if these team had found a way to get into the playoffs last season, they wouldn't have been willing to dump JO for slightly better than nothing: expiring contracts and a fragile, undersized PG (who can hopefully be moved again next summer once the not-yet-identified rookie PG replaces him from the lineup - a continuing theme in his career.)

Let the process begin, finally.

06-26-2008, 01:03 PM
Jay, thanks for the sunshine. :devil:

06-26-2008, 01:03 PM
And Jay, I would like to reach out the branch to you as well. Please, post more.

06-26-2008, 01:14 PM
Jay, thanks for the sunshine. :devil:

My next masterpiece just might be, "This team is built for offseason of 2010."


06-26-2008, 02:31 PM
My odd thought on this draft is that this is the first Pacer draft that I can see where I am actually excited about.

In all the draft years before.....I was mostly waiting for something big to happen...this time...something big did happen and we now have 2 new players to wait on. The best draft in recent years was when we got Granger....then we all got excited when we somehow snagged James White ( but then disappointed when we found out he didn't make the cut ).

Not only can there be some major trade that moves up and down the players in the draft...but there is a good chance that someone actually half-way decent that could fall into our laps.

06-26-2008, 02:36 PM
A DouginOH sighting!!

Maceo is back - maybe we'll see Scott H around now, too.

06-26-2008, 02:50 PM
lets see we have Peck, Doug in Ohio, Doug, ChicagoJ - all in one thread - just seems strange is all. Feels like we should discuss something from around 2003

06-26-2008, 03:06 PM
If Tim came back to would be perfect.

06-26-2008, 03:39 PM
If Tim came back to would be perfect.

Wow, you're right it's been a long time for Tim. :confused:

06-26-2008, 03:45 PM
Tim is actually unregistered from here it seems - he was inactive for so long that his account got wiped when the system was cleaned.

Goodbye Tim!

06-26-2008, 03:46 PM
Good Post Peck!

06-26-2008, 03:49 PM
Maceo Baston can hit the three? Someone should tell him that so he starts shooting it.

06-26-2008, 04:01 PM
Wow - a lot of you seem to know this Peck person and J as well. Were these some people that went to prison and just got out or what's the story?

06-26-2008, 05:18 PM
Tim is actually unregistered from here it seems - he was inactive for so long that his account got wiped when the system was cleaned.

Goodbye Tim!

Last we heard from him his computer had crashed. He hasn't been back since.

06-26-2008, 08:15 PM
His computer crashed into Burlington Coat Factory?

I finally know the rest of the story.

Slick Pinkham
06-26-2008, 11:00 PM
Maceo Baston can hit the three? Someone should tell him that so he starts shooting it.

Peck said he's a fit for OB's offense EXCEPT for shooting 3's...

i.e. high energy, athlete, scrappy, versatile, defensively capable... but no outside shot

06-26-2008, 11:02 PM
He can hit it, I'm serious.

06-26-2008, 11:53 PM
Always good to check back in with the old gang and see Peck's Odd Thoughts at the top of the page. Sure wish I had more time to spend here.

Likening your feeling to this team to the early 90's era teams is a nice analogy, Peck. I, too, have had a hard time getting behind the Pacers in recent years (specifically, since the Brawl).

Those mid to late 90's teams were professional and we loved them. The teams since then have basically underachieved and disappointed.

Those early 90's teams had a hard time getting past the first round of the playoffs, but we liked them and rooted for them. Can't say the same for our recent teams.

Hopefully, the Bird era will usher in a team we can actually like again. That would be nice. Start with like, then move on to winning again.