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View Full Version : In the immortal words of Arnold... STOP WHINING!



Infinite MAN_force
06-26-2008, 01:02 AM
I just attempted to read through the super long thread about the Toronto trade, and I gave up. I feel a rant coming on...

I guess it is true that with some people, no matter what happens, the glass is truly half empty. How long ago was it that according to pessimists, JO had no value and we would be lucky to trade him for peanuts?

A few points I want to address...

TJ ford is overpaid and injury prone - TJ Ford is not injury prone. He has a spinal problem and a freak neck injury could potentially end his career, and honestly, that could be true for every player in the NBA. There is a distinct difference between the injury problem of TJ and JO. TJ has no nagging injuries that will be off and on problems keeping him out of the lineup. In two seasons prior to the last one, he played over 72 games... and his injury last season would qualify under "freak injury" IMO. I think anyone who has seen the video would agree.

If the "freak" injury happens, than the contract is insured. Meaning it is 80% paid for and off the cap in a year. Proponents of the Cleveland trade should be thrilled with such totally awesome cap relief. Which is basically all we would have received in that trade, including a worse draft pick and a complete clone of Jeff Foster... accept more like Jeff Foster with a bad attitude, who will be demanding more money in under two years time. Did I mention we already have a Jeff Foster? That PG thing is more of a question mark...

Who am I kidding? TJ Ford is only marginally better than Travis Deiner anyway, who cares?

Well, the numbers don't exactly support that statement. Despite the obvious fact that Ford may in fact be the quickest player in the NBA, and Travis is well... not entirely slow? um.. Ford has 10% higher FG% with 5 more PPG, 3 more rebounds, and 3 more assists playing BACKUP minutes. Thats 12 points, almost 7 assists, and 4 rebounds per game in 24 minutes. Per 36? = 18 points, 10 assists, and 6 rebounds.

TJ Ford is not a championship point gaurd, he can't defend.

First off, anyone who thinks we were going to become a championship team overnight was surely deluding themselves.

Second, someone please let me in on the other options that were just staring us in the face. TJ Ford is more talented than anyone we would have a realistic chance to draft. Augustin was going to have the same defensive problem, so that is not a better option at all. In Fact, Ford is much quicker than Augustin, So penetration on the perimeter is not the issue. Ford might get posted up by bigger guys, which is why we will need a good backup with better size to negate mismatches with certain teams. Overall he has the athleticism that this slow team desperately needs, which outweighs the negatives IMO.

For people who salivate over cap relief, The Guy comes off the books the same year as murphy, dunleavy, and tinsley... meaning tons of expiring contracts to trade and cap relief. That expiring euro center kind of eliminates the "sign Danny" problem, so I fail to see what the big deal is here.

For those who think holding onto JO and letting him expire was a better option. I just don't know what to say. :confused:

For broken down worthless JO, who we would have all celebrated for if he opted out this year.... we get a large expiring contract, a guy who could be a top 10 PG in the NBA, and the 17th pick in the draft. Is it really so bad? really??? Pacers should be a playoff team next year and even if they go nowhere when they get there, it will certainly be a step in the right direction. We get fresh faces and a new start for the franchise. Some folks are just never satisfied...

I guess for people who were really hoping this team fell in the gutter for the next decade, cut every big salary (and worthwhile player at that), and prayed for high draft picks to save the franchise, I can see how you are disappointed in this trade. I guess I just think becoming a better team and making savvy trades down the road is a better strategy. I am not saying we have fixed all the problems, but you have to start somewhere.

I'm probably mainly yelling at a vocal minority, as most people seem to like the trade. I just get frustrated by the fact that no matter what happens, people will **** and moan about it. I am pretty sure there are people on this forum who could find the downside to trading Murphy/Dunleavy for Lebron James.

I myself am pretty excited for the team and looking forward to next year. Lets all just take solace that JO and most likely JT, will have nothing to do with the pacers next year... Time for a new beginning.

I feel better. :buddies:

Hey, I'm not all sunshine you know, I am still jumping off a bridge if we draft Kosta Doofus. Get ready to light the torches. :dance:

Hicks
06-26-2008, 01:11 AM
:kegboypreachit:

TheSauceMaster
06-26-2008, 01:18 AM
I just attempted to read through the super long thread about the Toronto trade, and I gave up. I feel a rant coming on...

I guess it is true that with some people, no matter what happens, the glass is truly half empty. How long ago was it that according to pessimists, JO had no value and we would be lucky to trade him for peanuts?

A few points I want to address...

TJ ford is overpaid and injury prone - TJ Ford is not injury prone. He has a spinal problem and a freak neck injury could potentially end his career, and honestly, that could be true for every player in the NBA. There is a distinct difference between the injury problem of TJ and JO. TJ has no nagging injuries that will be off and on problems keeping him out of the lineup. In two seasons prior to the last one, he played over 72 games... and his injury last season would qualify under "freak injury" IMO. I think anyone who has seen the video would agree.

If the "freak" injury happens, than the contract is insured. Meaning it is 80% paid for and off the cap in a year. Proponents of the Cleveland trade should be thrilled with such totally awesome cap relief. Which is basically all we would have received in that trade, including a worse draft pick and a complete clone of Jeff Foster... accept more like Jeff Foster with a bad attitude, who will be demanding more money in under two years time. Did I mention we already have a Jeff Foster? That PG thing is more of a question mark...

Who am I kidding? TJ Ford is only marginally better than Travis Deiner anyway, who cares?

Well, the numbers don't exactly support that statement. Despite the obvious fact that Ford may in fact be the quickest player in the NBA, and Travis is well... not entirely slow? um.. Ford has 10% higher FG% with 5 more PPG, 3 more rebounds, and 3 more assists playing BACKUP minutes. Thats 12 points, almost 7 assists, and 4 rebounds per game in 24 minutes. Per 36? = 18 points, 10 assists, and 6 rebounds.

TJ Ford is not a championship point gaurd, he can't defend.

First off, anyone who thinks we were going to become a championship team overnight was surely deluding themselves.

Second, someone please let me in on the other options that were just staring us in the face. TJ Ford is more talented than anyone we would have a realistic chance to draft. Augustin was going to have the same defensive problem, so that is not a better option at all. In Fact, Ford is much quicker than Augustin, So penetration on the perimeter is not the issue. Ford might get posted up by bigger guys, which is why we will need a good backup with better size to negate mismatches with certain teams. Overall he has the athleticism that this slow team desperately needs, which outweighs the negatives IMO.

For people who salivate over cap relief, The Guy comes off the books the same year as murphy, dunleavy, and tinsley... meaning tons of expiring contracts to trade and cap relief. That expiring euro center kind of eliminates the "sign Danny" problem, so I fail to see what the big deal is here.

For those who think holding onto JO and letting him expire was a better option. I just don't know what to say. :confused:

For broken down worthless JO, who we would have all celebrated for if he opted out this year.... we get a large expiring contract, a guy who could be a top 10 PG in the NBA, and the 17th pick in the draft. Is it really so bad? really??? Pacers should be a playoff team next year and even if they go nowhere when they get there, it will certainly be a step in the right direction. We get fresh faces and a new start for the franchise. Some folks are just never satisfied...

I guess for people who were really hoping this team fell in the gutter for the next decade, cut every big salary (and worthwhile player at that), and prayed for high draft picks to save the franchise, I can see how you are disappointed in this trade. I guess I just think becoming a better team and making savvy trades down the road is a better strategy. I am not saying we have fixed all the problems, but you have to start somewhere.

I'm probably mainly yelling at a vocal minority, as most people seem to like the trade. I just get frustrated by the fact that no matter what happens, people will **** and moan about it. I am pretty sure there are people on this forum who could find the downside to trading Murphy/Dunleavy for Lebron James.

I myself am pretty excited for the team and looking forward to next year. Lets all just take solace that JO and most likely JT, will have nothing to do with the pacers next year... Time for a new beginning.

I feel better. :buddies:

Hey, I'm not all sunshine you know, I am still jumping off a bridge if we draft Kosta Doofus. Get ready to light the torches. :dance:

I couldn't have said it better myself. In fact I find it hard to disagree with anything you said in this post.

PaceBalls
06-26-2008, 01:19 AM
I would also like to point out TJ is a terrific perimeter defender.. which is exactly what this team needs! We have no one fast enough to stay in front of any quick guards, TJ can do that. Sure our PG post up D will be hurting... but that is not near as important as perimeter Defense!

Also, Lebron is too much of a ballhog /pass on that trade :p

Infinite MAN_force
06-26-2008, 01:19 AM
-Hicks

:laugh:

With my luck the trade won't go through and my big rant will have been a waste of time anyway.

I would probably cry.

granger33
06-26-2008, 01:50 AM
Great post man. I was thinking the exact same things.

Nice to see a positive post for once.

jhutt50
06-26-2008, 02:00 AM
I like the trade a lot too. We now have a very solid starting point guard at the least, some cap relief after this year, and an extra pick that will help in the rebuilding efforts. Instead of having to draft a point guard this year, and having basically the exact same team as last year, we have some options and we are moving forward. We can pick up at least two rotation guys, possibly a starter to work in this year.

TheSauceMaster
06-26-2008, 03:27 AM
1 Down and 1 PG For Sale. :devil: I'm actually considering season tickets again.

Well If we can get rid of Tinsley also. :happydanc

D-BONE
06-26-2008, 08:51 AM
TJ Ford is not a championship point gaurd, he can't defend.

First off, anyone who thinks we were going to become a championship team overnight was surely deluding themselves.


IMF,

I hold mainly the same sentiments you express. I think the above portion is of extreme improtance. I don't know why some people who criticize the trade think Ford is viewed as the long-term PG solution.

Despite the obvious risk involved, I like the deal overall. I do not by any means go into it thinking that Ford will be the definitive answer for us. I'm not sure, as you state, that we'll even be playoff calibur next year.

I do believe that in terms of championship calibur, we are probably AT LEAST three years away assuming good managerial maneuvers. If Ford does not pan out in the next 2-3 years either due to performance and/or injury, I expect we will be searching or even have found his replacement by that point.

Infinite MAN_force
06-27-2008, 02:24 AM
I think for the time being, the team has improved, and a few years down the road, expiring contracts, draft picks, and some of our younger prospects can be turned into even better players.

It is easier to do this when the team is doing well... which translates to the players on the roster overall, having more value.

I am pretty happy with the draft picks too. I almost freaked when Bayless was traded, but after reflection, Jack is the perfect backup for Ford and Rush could be a starting SG of the future. Only time will tell...