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Whtwudusay
06-24-2008, 11:27 AM
Did anyone else see the Press Conference this morning? I only caught the tail end of it. Talked about the upcoming draft and current players.

Some highlights that I caught -

He said that he wanted to get a player or players that could help the team in the upcoming year. He said that he thought Hibbert and Koufos could help right away, but Randolph would be a player that they would have to wait on. It didn't sound like he was interested in Randolph, but sounded like he likes Hibbert a lot.

He also said that he thinks he can get another first round pick if they want it. If he got another pick, he would want it to be in the teens - twenty. Was specifically asked about Memphis at 28 and he said that was too deep for him to trade for.

Said he would have to take a long hard look at Gordon if he was available at 11.

He said there were four players he really liked at 11 with it being realistic for two of them to be there when they pick.

He said he wasn't too concerned about getting a point guard in the draft. He thinks they can do some things to acquire a good point guard or two outside of the draft. By the way, he said, they also have one point guard that is for sale.

Finally, he was asked about Shawne Williams, and said he was on very thin ice. Said if there was a deal that was proposed that they could get something good back, they would consider it. Otherwise, Shawne is on really thin ice.

More was probably covered, but this is all I was able to catch.

Edited to add - he sounded really confident that they could get a second first round pick.

Also, he made a joke about one player - I think it was DJ Augestin, saying that he's the same size as Kravitz.

He was asked about Lorbek and, I believe, Stanko. Said that they need to make a decision about Lorbek soon. He is developing, but not at the rate Bird would like. Said he is still a good player, though. I think he was talking about Stanko when he said he was developing nicely, and is in their plans within the next three years or so. I got distracted at this point and may have misheard though.

Finally - he said he thought DJ White and George Hill would be gone by the time they pick in the second round.

Shaggy
06-24-2008, 11:30 AM
He also joked that if Williams is on thin ice (and Bird sounded very irritated with him) then Tinsley is below him - as in under the ice.

Most curious statement, when asked about taking a PG at 11 he said that they have other means to get a PG - at least two. Still sounds like they are working the phones.

He also mentioned that Lorbek is still not where Bird wants him to be. Not really surprising given the stats I have seen.

owl
06-24-2008, 11:36 AM
Westbrook
Love or Lopez
Hibbert
Ajinca

MyFavMartin
06-24-2008, 11:40 AM
Most curious statement, when asked about taking a PG at 11 he said that they have other means to get a PG - at least two.

Must be 2 trade possibilities....

?


?

Arcadian
06-24-2008, 11:40 AM
I'm ready for changes in the roster to be made. However, I think it is classless, in a steak served on paper plates way, for management trash players in the press. It's not professional and serves no constructive purpose.

MyFavMartin
06-24-2008, 11:43 AM
motivation?

warning?

an example to others?

D-BONE
06-24-2008, 11:44 AM
So, in other words, Bird likes just about everybody and rules out virtually nobody other than the obvious.

MyFavMartin
06-24-2008, 11:45 AM
SMOKESCREEN!!!!

JayRedd
06-24-2008, 11:47 AM
he sounded really confident that they could get a second first round pick.

That's because other GMs will gladly give them away in this horrible, horrible draft.

duke dynamite
06-24-2008, 12:01 PM
Transcript? Audio?

Noodle
06-24-2008, 12:02 PM
I'm ready for changes in the roster to be made. However, I think it is classless, in a steak served on paper plates way, for management trash players in the press. It's not professional and serves no constructive purpose.
Unless you trash trash.

Anthem
06-24-2008, 12:05 PM
However, I think it is classless, in a steak served on paper plates way,
Hick from French Lick.

Putnam
06-24-2008, 12:14 PM
I'm ready for changes in the roster to be made. However, I think it is classless, in a steak served on paper plates way, for management trash players in the press. It's not professional and serves no constructive purpose.


Wait a minute. What are you talking about here? Are you reacting to "Shawne is on thin ice"?"

That is not "trashing" the player. It says nothing about his character. It simply clarifies his status within the organization, which is a legitimate thing for the president to publicize.

I don't know all the facts, but I dispute that it serves no purpose. It might very well alert Shawne where he stands with the organization. Even supposing that shawne already knows where he stands, a public statement alerts Shawne's posse that things are serious. Even more certainly, such statements as these reassure the public that players' character is issue number one, finally.

Justin Tyme
06-24-2008, 12:17 PM
He said that he thought Hibbert and Koufos could help right away, but Randolph would be a player that they would have to wait on. It didn't sound like he was interested in Randolph, but sounded like he likes Hibbert a lot.


Said he would have to take a long hard look at Gordon if he was available at 11.

He said there were four players he really liked at 11 with it being realistic for two of them to be there when they pick.

By the way, he said, they also have one point guard that is for sale.

Finally, he was asked about Shawne Williams, and said he was on very thin ice. Said if there was a deal that was proposed that they could get something good back, they would consider it. Otherwise, Shawne is on really thin ice.


Finally - he said he thought DJ White and George Hill would be gone by the time they pick in the second round.


Please not Hibbert or Koufos!!!! Hopefully, a smokescreen. PLEASE!

PR to appease Indiana and IU people.

That's better than saying "the PLAYER I like will be there at 11. He's being realistic and open to the fans, and I like that touch.

I wonder who the PG for sale could possibly be?:D No doubt, if there ever was, Tinsley won't be back this season, one way or another. I hate to say it, but a buy out is looking more and more probable.

Well, I guess more trade scenarios on the board will have Shawne involved now! For Shawne's sake, as I said yesterday, he better be working on more than his 3 pt shot the summer. His Pacers future depends on it!

If Bird is smart, he will trade up in the 2nd or get another 2nd round pick in the 31-34 range for in order to get Hill. Talk to McHale! JMOAA

Speed
06-24-2008, 12:17 PM
Did he say anything about the players that they've had in this week. Last week it was interviews and group workouts and now it's all secretive, it seems.

Whtwudusay
06-24-2008, 12:17 PM
Transcript? Audio?

I'm not sure if this will work well, but here's a link to the archived video from the Star.

http://gannett.a.mms.mavenapps.net/mms/rt/1/site/gannett-indianapolis-532-pub01-live/current/launch.html?maven_playerId=immersiveplayer&maven_referralPlaylistId=daa69ea88594654a24eca0e05 1a0a15e5e026ca1&maven_referralObject=777221331&maven_referrer=staf

Vince Neil
06-24-2008, 12:19 PM
Transcript? Audio?

A snippet..................


Bird downplays Raptors trade option
By Mike Wells
Posted: June 24, 2008- A Indiana Pacers president Larry Bird downplayed talk of a trade with the Toronto Raptors and said he wasn’t going to speculate on possible moves.

“We have talked to a number of teams, but to speculate on trades right now, obviously we’re getting close to the draft right now,” Bird said today at his predraft press conference. “There are a lot of things we’re doing; it’s all speculation right now.”


The Star and Toronto Star reported that the Pacers and the Raptors have discussed a possible deal to send Jermaine O’Neal to Toronto for T.J. Ford, Rasho Nesterovic and possibly the Raptors’ first-round pick (No. 17).

Bird said he will continue to look for trade opportunities. He said has talked to teams that are looking to swap draft picks.

"If I get another pick, I'd like to have it in the teens, maybe 20, about the highest," Bird said. "With the situation we're in now, we need somebody who can help us right now."

He acknowledged Danny Granger and Mike Dunleavy are the closest players to being untouchable on the roster.

He said forward Shawne Williams "is on thin ice" and point guard Jamaal Tinsley was below him.

Bird still hopes to acquire a second first-round pick in Thursday’s draft. The Pacers have the No. 11 and 41 picks in the draft.

“We’re talking to a lot of teams,” he said. “We have two days left. Every team you talk to, they have a lot of things on the board like we do. Hopefully we can because I think it’s a deep draft.”

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080624/SPORTS04/80624045

Doug
06-24-2008, 12:28 PM
I'm sure Shawne already knows he's on thin ice. Not much harm in saying so in a press conference, plus they need to let the fans know they are taking a harder line.

And I'm sure Tinsley knows where he stands as well. No harm there, unless you think there's some clueless GM who doesn't know about Tinsley's 'issues'. I bet Bird has already talked to every single team about moving Tinsley. I bet they'd trade Tinsley for anybody who doesn't have a worse contract. ANYBODY.

Naptown_Seth
06-24-2008, 12:28 PM
motivation?

warning?

an example to others?
Personal?

Face to face?

Like a man?


I'm with Arcadian, games in the press by either side are childish. If JO was saying this about Larry who would be on JO's side? This is a case of "I don't like them therefore it's okay". It's not. Larry needs to be SETTING THE EXAMPLE, and ripping a guy even in honesty is not the way to do it. Insulting I mean. There are ways to critique a person while still showing respect and being constructive.

But lord knows it sure boosts the trade value when you trash your own guys like this. :rolleyes:


Wait a minute. What are you talking about here? Are you reacting to "Shawne is on thin ice"?"

That is not "trashing" the player. It says nothing about his character. It simply clarifies his status within the organization, which is a legitimate thing for the president to publicize.

I don't know all the facts, but I dispute that it serves no purpose. It might very well alert Shawne where he stands with the organization. Even supposing that shawne already knows where he stands, a public statement alerts Shawne's posse that things are serious. Even more certainly, such statements as these reassure the public that players' character is issue number one, finally.
Now your point I get but I don't think we are contradicting here. Making a professional, respectful but serious statement about what the players know are expected of them is fine. I'm not sure threatening them, or joking about it while threatening them (Tinsley) is the best way to deal with people.

Bear in mind that Stan VG wasn't happy with how TPTB dealt with him. Was that Donnie, respected by many around the league, or Bird, called out JO year after year and has no problem ripping guys publically?

I don't even think Larry is meanspirited, I just think he doesn't let tact get in the way of his honest opinion.

Doug
06-24-2008, 12:28 PM
Oh, the best thing was him mentioning he things Koufos can help us. Now I know we won't take him.

travmil
06-24-2008, 12:33 PM
I'm ready for changes in the roster to be made. However, I think it is classless, in a steak served on paper plates way, for management trash players in the press. It's not professional and serves no constructive purpose.

I'm in the boat that thinks what Bird did isn't all that bad, but I completely reject your logic here. If our players want to be treated professionally, they can start acting like...you know....professionals. Until they can manage that I'm fine with players who deserve it being trashed in the press by anyone, including management.

Putnam
06-24-2008, 12:33 PM
"At 11, I WILL take a guy that fits (O'Brien's) style."


15 seconds later:

"At 11, I WILL take the best player available."

Naptown_Seth
06-24-2008, 12:35 PM
I'm excited about Hibbert though. If there was one player in this draft that I thought was built to run JOB's system it's him. 2nd would be Koufos.

Bball is rubbing off on me. I'm hoping it offends some people too.*



* never too early to campaign and sarcasm is a good way to offend some people

Whtwudusay
06-24-2008, 12:37 PM
"At 11, I WILL take a guy that fits (O'Brien's) style."


15 seconds later:

"At 11, I WILL take the best player available."

I don't know if he caught his own contradiction, but he went on to say, as the best available player, he should be able to do a little bit of everything. I guess, inferring that by being the best available player he would naturally fit into the system. :D Who knows...

Naptown_Seth
06-24-2008, 12:39 PM
I'm in the boat that thinks what Bird did isn't all that bad, but I completely reject your logic here. If our players want to be treated professionally, they can start acting like...you know....professionals. Until they can manage that I'm fine with players who deserve it being trashed in the press by anyone, including management.
Chicken and egg though. You set the standard. That allows you to feel comfortable holding others to it. What's wrong with just moving Tinsley off the team because of how he interacts with people?

"Revenge" or "Punishment" in the press is not the right way to interact with people. One thing about Carlisle is that he had a lot of tact when it came to public discussion of the team.

carpediem024
06-24-2008, 12:39 PM
Well the Lakers were actually thinking about moving down a few spots in the draft just to make sure they get George Hill... They were really impressed by him and knows the triangle offense. So surely he won't be available in the second round.

MyFavMartin
06-24-2008, 12:47 PM
Personal?

Face to face?

Like a man?




I'm sure he already did this.

More than once.


This is a reminder that Bird and the Pacer fans have memories and they're either on the first plane out of town or on standby.

Rajah Brown
06-24-2008, 12:48 PM
If we end up with Hibbert, I can only assume we'll be playing mostly
zone-D next year. Watching him shuffle out to the perimeter to
defend/hedge pick and roll action won't be a pretty sight. He'll
make Harrison look like KG.

count55
06-24-2008, 12:48 PM
Chicken and egg though. You set the standard. That allows you to feel comfortable holding others to it. What's wrong with just moving Tinsley off the team because of how he interacts with people?

"Revenge" or "Punishment" in the press is not the right way to interact with people. One thing about Carlisle is that he had a lot of tact when it came to public discussion of the team.

And absolutely no credibility. Seriously, did you ever believe a word he said?

I've never been a big fan of airing dirty laundry in the press, but I have a hard time believing that these are things that haven't been discussed face to face with these guys ad nauseum.

All that aside, yes Bird is bad at this, but at this point, I'm less interested in the style than I am in hearing some substance. God knows if there is any in response to the trade or draft talk, but at least you have a sense of what is up with a couple of items.

Also, I think it is virtually impossible to damage Tinsley's trade value at this point. Everybody knows what he is. If somebody has an equal or worse contract that they're not getting anything out of, they'll offer it, and we probably would take it. (Which I would for no other reason to have the salary slot to deal down the road.) If not, then I do think they'll talk buyout (which, I'm not fond of because it screws us capwise with no real financial savings, but, hey, at least he's gone.)

Kegboy
06-24-2008, 12:50 PM
That was interesting. For anyone who doesn't want to watch the whole thing, the last minute or two is about Jamaal and Shawne.

I agree that Larry didn't handle it professionally, but I got the impression that he's so fed up with Jamaal he just doesn't care. He probably knows he's gonna have to buy him out and he's bitter, considering how he used to pimp him.

As for Shawne, I was convinced that if we traded anyone, it'd be Ike. Now I'm not too sure. Too bad Memphis's pick is all the way down at #28.

ABADays
06-24-2008, 12:51 PM
I'm ready for changes in the roster to be made. However, I think it is classless, in a steak served on paper plates way, for management trash players in the press. It's not professional and serves no constructive purpose.

Initially there was no trashing at all. Players immaturity persisted. I don't have a problem with being "open" about a player. Maybe calling them out will make them grow up a little. Besides, other than maybe Artest, who has done more to trash this franchise than Tinsley. Williams was becoming a tiny-Tin. And for the record, JO's mouth hasn't exactly helped this organization.

Justin Tyme
06-24-2008, 12:51 PM
Well the Lakers were actually thinking about moving down a few spots in the draft just to make sure they get George Hill... They were really impressed by him and knows the triangle offense. So surely he won't be available in the second round.


The Lakers don't have a 1st, but was referring to moving down in the 2nd to get Hill. Hill won't go in the 1st round, but could go early in the 2nd. The Lakers want to trade down into the top of the 2nd to make sure they get Hill.

Arcadian
06-24-2008, 01:01 PM
I watched the video before commenting more. I didn't think that Larry was too bad actually. I'm not bothered by saying Williams is on thin ice. I'm not worried about about trade value.

I think Larry should have skipped the joke about a PG being on sale. (The other comments about Tins came from the press really.) This is my reasoning. Just like any severance of a relationship it always goes smoother if you just shake hands and wish them well. Making jabs may add to the price of a buy out. It may start yet more focus on things which have nothing to do with basketball creating more gossip and distractions and damaging reputations (I'm not talking about Tins rep).

It might not do any of these things but why risk it aside from feeling good about saying it. That is very short term.

Also giving the public assurance on where the Pacers stand on Tins isn't valid. It is to a point where they just need to unload him.

count55
06-24-2008, 01:04 PM
I watched the video before commenting more. I didn't think that Larry was too bad actually. I'm not bothered by saying Williams is on thin ice. I'm not worried about about trade value.

I think Larry should have skipped the joke about a PG being on sale. (The other comments about Tins came from the press really.) This is my reasoning. Just like any severance of a relationship it always goes smoother if you just shake hands and wish them well. Making jabs may add to the price of a buy out. It may start yet more focus on things which have nothing to do with basketball creating more gossip and distractions and damaging reputations (I'm not talking about Tins rep).

It might not do any of these things but why risk it aside from feeling good about saying it. That is very short term.

Also giving the public assurance on where the Pacers stand on Tins isn't valid. It is to a point where they just need to unload him.


That's a fair position.

croz24
06-24-2008, 01:08 PM
we should be going after the best talent, NOT who we think can help us most NEXT YEAR. that's a very dumb mindset imo.

Hicks
06-24-2008, 01:08 PM
I'm sure he already did this.

More than once.

Yep.

Naptown_Seth
06-24-2008, 01:09 PM
Let me add like Arcadian, I'm not currently in a spot to see the video and how it comes off. I'm going by interpretations and the general idea of doing this stuff. I hate when Larry Brown pulls this crap too for the record.


I'm sure he already did this.

More than once.


This is a reminder that Bird and the Pacer fans have memories and they're either on the first plane out of town or on standby.
I'm not against these factors as a reason to move them, but this is like firing a guy and on his way out the boss tells everyone what a lazy jerk the guy was. That's just not how you handle it. The boss doesn't even go around telling the other workers that "one more thing and he's fired", at least not a good boss.

He goes, you feel strong in your reasons since you were more than fair to him, and you move on. If he wants to continue to be a jerk that's his issue unless it literally intrudes on the company's business. Otherwise it should be "whatever, we have our own house to look after".

As for letting the fans know...um, maybe less "letting us know" and more "doing something about it" is in order there. Enough talk. Shut up and be professional and get your team cleaned up. Telling us a guy is on thin ice means nothing. It's words, words the player already heard and is nothing but lip service to the rest of us until there is action.

And when that action comes which fans are going to say "what, they got rid of Tinsley!!!" We get it, Bird gets it and the players get it as much as they ever are going to or are willing to.

Naptown_Seth
06-24-2008, 01:16 PM
And absolutely no credibility. Seriously, did you ever believe a word he said?
Totally. I just thought he was going for full tact and was leaving out all the negatives, hedging any criticism. So it was the truth, just cooled down.

And occassionally he would mention players efforts/games in the press. He was not very complimentary about Ron after one game I recall, and the next game Ron went off. Who knows if it was because of this or not. I just know it shouldn't have to come to that.

If a player is such a child that you have to say "that jerk sucks" in the press just to get him to play well, then my question is why is he even still on the team. STFU and move his butt, let someone else "get the most out of him" with whatever daycare antics it takes.

JHcutt18
06-24-2008, 01:20 PM
The main pieces I got out of this press conference were....

-Bird said he would take the best player available at #11 regardless of position, he would LIKE to get a PG or a big man, but he said he WOULD take the best player available.

-When asked if he would take a player at #11 that hasn't been worked out by the Pacers, he said it depends on who it is.....adding that if it was Eric Gordon he would have to "take a hard look"

-Asked if the team has any "untouchable" players when it comes to trades. He said Danny and Mike played real well and it would be very hard to give them up.

-When asked about the possibility of getting another first round pick. Bird said he "thinks we could get one if we wanted it" and "if it is in the right area where we could get a good player, we will take it"

-Bird said he can't see Mayo, Bayless or WESTBROOK being there when we pick.

-When asked about if he thinks Augustin will be gone at 11 he got a little uncomfortable it seems to me. "I don't know" "If somebody in front of us really likes him they'll take him. But uh....we have a group of guys...uhh ...4 guys...that we think three of them....uhhh...really two of them we will have a chance at". Just seems to me when he got into the details he was being VERY careful with what he said.....smokescreen!!

-Bird said he wants a player who can contribute next year, not somebody he has to wait on.

-When asked about our PG situation if Augustin and Westbrook are both gone. He said he isn't worried because he has other ways to get point guards.

Will Galen
06-24-2008, 01:22 PM
When he said Williams was on thin ice he also said if he could get someone back for him he would probably do it.

I thought it was a good press conference.

Edit; Thanks for the link to the video Whtwudsay!

count55
06-24-2008, 01:25 PM
Totally. I just thought he was going for full tact and was leaving out all the negatives, hedging any criticism. So it was the truth, just cooled down.

And occassionally he would mention players efforts/games in the press. He was not very complimentary about Ron after one game I recall, and the next game Ron went off. Who knows if it was because of this or not. I just know it shouldn't have to come to that.

If a player is such a child that you have to say "that jerk sucks" in the press just to get him to play well, then my question is why is he even still on the team. STFU and move his butt, let someone else "get the most out of him" with whatever daycare antics it takes.

OK..that's fair, but I don't think Bird is trying to motivate the player when he says the **** he says. I think he figures "we've talked about it, he knows how I feel, these guys know how I feel, so what difference does it make?"

That's not to say that he's right that it makes no difference, just to say that I just attribute it more to Bird's personal style (or lack thereof, if you wish) than to any particular motivating scheme or ploy.

I think somebody mentioned Larry Brown in this thread, and I think that is a different situation. I do believe that Brown is a manipulative *******...kind of like Tony Soprano's sister or mother in the Soprano's, or any overbearing mother. (I'm watching the Soprano's right now, so that's why it comes to mind.) I read a quote in a book called Basketball Short about Larry Brown that said "Larry Brown absolutely believes everything he says when he says it to you. It's just that he believes something else 5 minutes later." I forget who it was.

I think Bird just blunders along without a consistent sense of the nuances of the language. I guess, in the end, it may not make any difference, but...

2minutes twowa
06-24-2008, 01:28 PM
Let me add like Arcadian, I'm not currently in a spot to see the video and how it comes off. I'm going by interpretations and the general idea of doing this stuff. I hate when Larry Brown pulls this crap too for the record.


I'm not against these factors as a reason to move them, but this is like firing a guy and on his way out the boss tells everyone what a lazy jerk the guy was. That's just not how you handle it. The boss doesn't even go around telling the other workers that "one more thing and he's fired", at least not a good boss.

He goes, you feel strong in your reasons since you were more than fair to him, and you move on. If he wants to continue to be a jerk that's his issue unless it literally intrudes on the company's business. Otherwise it should be "whatever, we have our own house to look after".

As for letting the fans know...um, maybe less "letting us know" and more "doing something about it" is in order there. Enough talk. Shut up and be professional and get your team cleaned up. Telling us a guy is on thin ice means nothing. It's words, words the player already heard and is nothing but lip service to the rest of us until there is action.

And when that action comes which fans are going to say "what, they got rid of Tinsley!!!" We get it, Bird gets it and the players get it as much as they ever are going to or are willing to.

The media is not used for communication between players and management, it's a direct voice to the fans. His comments were to let the fans know where they stood with certain players. I guarantee that Shawne and JT know exactly where they stand.:whip2:

Hicks
06-24-2008, 01:32 PM
we should be going after the best talent, NOT who we think can help us most NEXT YEAR. that's a very dumb mindset imo.

Larry's speaking out of both sides of his mouth. One minute he'll say, "someone who can help immediately," the next "best player available."

Confused, or just keeping people guessing, we don't know, but either way I think anything could happen Thursday.

Dr. Goldfoot
06-24-2008, 01:34 PM
If it's so easy to get a point guard, why haven't they been able to even get a good backup in this decade?

count55
06-24-2008, 01:35 PM
Larry's speaking out of both sides of his mouth. One minute he'll say, "someone who can help immediately," the next "best player available."

Confused, or just keeping people guessing, we don't know, but either way I think anything could happen Thursday.

Why would "someone who can help immediately" and "best player available" be mutually exclusive? In fact, I tend to think of the BPA as being someone who will have a more immediate (or at least a sooner) impact rather than a project. Danny Granger comes to mind...definitely a BPA who was also one of the most NBA ready guys in the draft.

purdue101
06-24-2008, 01:35 PM
Some things I took from the conference.

- We won't be taking Randolph (Thank God).

- Bird is pretty high on Hibbert and Koufos. I think he has one of them pegged in the late teens with an additional pick.

- Bird has yet to mention Speights, which makes me think he's our guy at 11. Remember, he never talked about Shawne two years ago.

- I DO NOT think Augustin will be picked. We have a trade in the works to get Hinrich, Ford, or Lowry.....possibly Barbosa.

- I cannot believe how he threw Tins under the bus. "We have a PG for sale. We only have two, so take your pick who it is." Hilarious. It makes me think he already has a deal in place. Why would he take a jab and completely cut down his value if he didn't have something in the works????

- Shawne could and should be shipped out....Bird seems fed up. I live across the street from Shawne and I can tell you all for a fact, he continues to have random ppl coming in and out of his house at all hours of the night....it's like a 24 hr party. All his pose drive tricked out trucks and sports cars Shawne probably paid for.

- Danny and Dun. are pretty much untouchable unless an unbelievable offer comes our way.

Bball
06-24-2008, 01:38 PM
The media is not used for communication between players and management, it's a direct voice to the fans. His comments were to let the fans know where they stood with certain players. I guarantee that Shawne and JT know exactly where they stand.:whip2:

That is what I'm thinking. Walsh would put a happy face on for the public so the players could try and save face. But we've already been down that path with these players. Let's just tell the fans the truth and let the chips fall where they may. If I didn't think both those players were acutely aware of where Bird stood then I might feel differently... but I don't think they are likely to be surprised to hear they aren't exactly on firm footing.

Also, I've absolutely HATED the coddling of players in the past. I HATE making players feel too comfortable... especially when they don't deserve it or earn it. Let the players play with a little bit of an edge, not a sense of entitlement.

Personally, I think a little frankness from the front office is refreshing.

-Bball

Trader Joe
06-24-2008, 01:42 PM
I've got no problem with telling Tins how it is, and I especially have no problem with telling Shawne how it is. I don't like Shawne not even one bit. I think he is the biggest PR threat this franchise has.

2minutes twowa
06-24-2008, 01:43 PM
That is what I'm thinking. Walsh would put a happy face on for the public so the players could try and save face. But we've already been down that path with these players. Let's just tell the fans the truth and let the chips fall where they may. If I didn't think both those players were acutely aware of where Bird stood then I might feel differently... but I don't think they are likely to be surprised to hear they aren't exactly on firm footing.

Also, I've absolutely HATED the coddling of players in the past. I HATE making players feel too comfortable... especially when they don't deserve it or earn it. Let the players play with a little bit of an edge, not a sense of entitlement.

Personally, I think a little frankness from the front office is refreshing.

-Bball

I agree 100%

RWB
06-24-2008, 01:44 PM
Larry's speaking out of both sides of his mouth. One minute he'll say, "someone who can help immediately," the next "best player available."

Confused, or just keeping people guessing, we don't know, but either way I think anything could happen Thursday.

Bird was known as a pretty good card player while at ISU. Use to win his beer money rather easily so hopefully he still has a poker face.

Unclebuck
06-24-2008, 01:47 PM
Weird not being able to hear the questions

Isaac
06-24-2008, 01:49 PM
If we make the Jermaine for Ford/17 deal I'd like to see us go big with both picks.

Starting fresh next year with a Speights/Hibbert pairing would be fun to watch, and that's the one I'm hoping for.

indyblue47
06-24-2008, 01:54 PM
Some things I took from the conference.

- I cannot believe how he threw Tins under the bus. "We have a PG for sale. We only have two, so take your pick who it is." Hilarious. It makes me think he already has a deal in place. Why would he take a jab and completely cut down his value if he didn't have something in the works????



I think you hit the nail right on the head. My wife works for a company that deal with TPTB and couldn't wait to get home to tell me a story she overheard. Don't want to get anyone fired, but I'll bet purdue101 is very accurate in his statement. I'll leave it at that because I don't want to get flamed. Sorry if I'm leaving you in the air on this gang.

Will Galen
06-24-2008, 01:55 PM
- I cannot believe how he threw Tins under the bus. "We have a PG for sale. We only have two, so take your pick who it is." Hilarious. It makes me think he already has a deal in place. Why would he take a jab and completely cut down his value if he didn't have something in the works????



It makes me think he's been offering Tinsley in trades and everyone laughs at him.

Kraft
06-24-2008, 01:56 PM
I think you hit the nail right on the head. My wife works for a company that deal with TPTB and couldn't wait to get home to tell me a story she overheard. Don't want to get anyone fired, but I'll bet purdue101 is very accurate in his statement. I'll leave it at that because I don't want to get flamed. Sorry if I'm leaving you in the air on this gang.

You're lame. ;)

Trader Joe
06-24-2008, 01:59 PM
I think you hit the nail right on the head. My wife works for a company that deal with TPTB and couldn't wait to get home to tell me a story she overheard. Don't want to get anyone fired, but I'll bet purdue101 is very accurate in his statement. I'll leave it at that because I don't want to get flamed. Sorry if I'm leaving you in the air on this gang.

Care to PM it?

FrenchConnection
06-24-2008, 02:00 PM
99.9% of the time, what Larry said about Tins would be out of line. But in this case, just imagine the reaction if he would have stated "Jamal Tinsley is still a big part of this franchise moving forward" or something of that sort. Any additional reassurance that Tinsley will never play another game in a Pacer's uniform is good to hear.

I think that his comments about Shawne are out of line.

Unclebuck
06-24-2008, 02:01 PM
I thought it was one of Bird's best press conference. He seemed in a good mood, seemed to be enjoying himself

Tom White
06-24-2008, 02:13 PM
I'm ready for changes in the roster to be made. However, I think it is classless, in a steak served on paper plates way, for management trash players in the press. It's not professional and serves no constructive purpose.

I'm on board with that. While Bird may be speaking what he feels to be the honest truth about a player, it is still an example of his lack of class. Very simply, he didn't need to say that.

vali_31
06-24-2008, 02:18 PM
Hey indyblue47 care to PM the story to me too... please :)

duke dynamite
06-24-2008, 02:19 PM
Thanks for posting the transcripts or providing links.

After I posted that I got home and just went onto indystar.com

You guys are awesome.

Tom White
06-24-2008, 02:24 PM
we should be going after the best talent, NOT who we think can help us most NEXT YEAR. that's a very dumb mindset imo.

Do you not think that the player with the most talent will also be the player that can help the team the most in the next year? Or are you meaning the player with the most future potential, or "upside"?

Young
06-24-2008, 02:31 PM
Wow, Roy Hibbert or Kosta Koufos. I'm not high on either of them even if we would get a late first round pick. I just don't see either being a real quality NBA player. Especially not good picks at 11.

I just hope Bird does some good things on Thursday. Right now DJ seems like the best pick for us at 11 but you never know.

2minutes twowa
06-24-2008, 02:32 PM
Some things I took from the conference.

- We won't be taking Randolph (Thank God).

- Bird is pretty high on Hibbert and Koufos. I think he has one of them pegged in the late teens with an additional pick.

- Bird has yet to mention Speights, which makes me think he's our guy at 11. Remember, he never talked about Shawne two years ago.

- I DO NOT think Augustin will be picked. We have a trade in the works to get Hinrich, Ford, or Lowry.....possibly Barbosa.

- I cannot believe how he threw Tins under the bus. "We have a PG for sale. We only have two, so take your pick who it is." Hilarious. It makes me think he already has a deal in place. Why would he take a jab and completely cut down his value if he didn't have something in the works????

- Shawne could and should be shipped out....Bird seems fed up. I live across the street from Shawne and I can tell you all for a fact, he continues to have random ppl coming in and out of his house at all hours of the night....it's like a 24 hr party. All his pose drive tricked out trucks and sports cars Shawne probably paid for.

- Danny and Dun. are pretty much untouchable unless an unbelievable offer comes our way.

I would be happy with Barbosa, Heinrich or Ford. My preference would be in that same order, I think Barbosa would really make JOB's offense fly!

Unclebuck
06-24-2008, 02:35 PM
My preference would be Hinrich, then Lowry, then Ford. Barbosa is a different category - he isn't a point guard

Putnam
06-24-2008, 02:37 PM
Do you not think that the player with the most talent will also be the player that can help the team the most in the next year? Or are you meaning the player with the most future potential, or "upside"?


Thanks.

There are so many phrases in use:

"best player available"
"upside"
"fits our style"
"most talent"
"fills a need"
"best athlete"

Right now, croz24 and others are criticizing Bird for his choice of catchphrase. I'm not sure if that is sensible. We all know Bird is going to choose a player he thinks will help the team.

And we also all know that it is wise not to tip your hand ahead of time, so, whether Bird is putting up a smoke screen or simply lying, he's wise to do it.

We can assess how well Bird does after we see his picks, and after we see those player(s) in a Pacer uniform.

count55
06-24-2008, 02:39 PM
My preference would be Hinrich, then Lowry, then Ford. Barbosa is a different category - he isn't a point guard

I would make it Hinrich, Ford, then Lowry...and I agree that Barbosa is not a point guard. If you guaranteed me 70+ games for a couple seasons, I'd put Ford at the top of that list. I'm not sure I get the attraction with Lowry, though he is considerably cheaper.

MyFavMartin
06-24-2008, 02:41 PM
If we make the Jermaine for Ford/17 deal I'd like to see us go big with both picks.

Starting fresh next year with a Speights/Hibbert pairing would be fun to watch, and that's the one I'm hoping for.

Bird's mention of Hibbert makes me think it's not him. But apparently he likes Koufos too...

so does that mean Arthur and Speights?

Arcadian
06-24-2008, 02:44 PM
Seeing how Murphy is a bad fit on D I don't see how we would draft a slower/less mobile big to pair with him.

FrenchConnection
06-24-2008, 02:47 PM
I would make it Hinrich, Ford, then Lowry...and I agree that Barbosa is not a point guard. If you guaranteed me 70+ games for a couple seasons, I'd put Ford at the top of that list. I'm not sure I get the attraction with Lowry, though he is considerably cheaper.

People get seduced by untapped potential. I think that Hinrich is the best of that bunch, but Lowry could be better than he is now so he seems better to folks. Draft and summer league time is a time when this trend come out in full force.

MyFavMartin
06-24-2008, 02:47 PM
mcgee?

tadscout
06-24-2008, 02:49 PM
The media is not used for communication between players and management, it's a direct voice to the fans. His comments were to let the fans know where they stood with certain players. I guarantee that Shawne and JT know exactly where they stand.:whip2:

:amen:


That is what I'm thinking. Walsh would put a happy face on for the public so the players could try and save face. But we've already been down that path with these players. Let's just tell the fans the truth and let the chips fall where they may. If I didn't think both those players were acutely aware of where Bird stood then I might feel differently... but I don't think they are likely to be surprised to hear they aren't exactly on firm footing.

Also, I've absolutely HATED the coddling of players in the past. I HATE making players feel too comfortable... especially when they don't deserve it or earn it. Let the players play with a little bit of an edge, not a sense of entitlement.

Personally, I think a little frankness from the front office is refreshing.

-Bball

:amen:

These guys are grown men... NOT children! If you keep trying to protect them from what you perceive to be the big bad Bird... they will keep embarrassing this team and city as long as you don't hold them accountable... both privately and publicly...

Speed
06-24-2008, 02:50 PM
Hey indyblue47 care to PM the story to me too... please :)
Me too???

JayRedd
06-24-2008, 02:51 PM
Reporter: So [Stanko] is still in the plans?

Legend: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.


:ohyeah:

JayRedd
06-24-2008, 02:54 PM
And after actually watching that whole thing...I'm 100% sure that Jamaal never puts on a Pacers jersey again.

On the whole though, I have to agree with UB that that was one of the best press conferences I've seen in a long time. Say what you want about LB's decision-making and talent evaluation, but he certaintly tells you exactly what he's thinking. Or he tells you that he won't tell you what he's thinking. Either way, there's no ambiguity and very little playing coy. I would think that would be refreshing to most people.

Vince Neil
06-24-2008, 02:57 PM
And after actually watching that whole thing...I'm 100% sure that Jamaal never puts on a Pacers jersey again.


I got that vibe as well.....................................

RWB
06-24-2008, 02:58 PM
And after actually watching that whole thing...I'm 100% sure that Jamaal never puts on a Pacers jersey again.


Plus does that satisfy the real money movers in the corporate seats?

Hicks
06-24-2008, 02:59 PM
It would be glorious if after all the Stanko jokes, he turns out to be a solid rotation player down the line.

croz24
06-24-2008, 02:59 PM
Do you not think that the player with the most talent will also be the player that can help the team the most in the next year? Or are you meaning the player with the most future potential, or "upside"?

sometimes it's the same player, sometimes it's not. say alexander and arthur are available at #11. while arthur is more likely to help the pacers next year, he does not have the talent of alexander. better way of saying "upside" i suppose. i wouldn't mind the pacers selecting hibbert somewhere in the 1st, but i do have a problem with speights, augustin, westbrook, and arthur.

JayRedd
06-24-2008, 03:00 PM
Plus does that satisfy the real money movers in the corporate seats?

Who knows...But I think it's more likely that Bird pulls Magic out of retirement to run the point next year than it is that he ever hands the ball to Tinsley again.


It would be glorious if after all the Stanko jokes, he turns out to be a solid rotation player down the line.

I'm bullish on Stanko.

CableKC
06-24-2008, 03:06 PM
After these comments by Bird, I'm convinced now that Bird will try to tack on Tinsley to any offseasons move that we make....will have little success and then TPTB will eventually buy Tinsley out.

If a GM was truly interested in Tinsley and he knows that there is very little chance that Tinsley will be in a Pacer Uniform ( IMHO...Bird has already doused the bridge with gasoline and is slowly reaching for the match to light it )....they can simply wait it out...let the Pacers buy him out...then snag him for cheap on the FA market.

If I were Tinsley...after hearing the way that Bird spoke about him in the Press Conference.....I would give the standard "I'm just going to get back to training camp and work as hard as I can to get back to game form and see what happens" response and then hold out for the most $$$ in any buyout and milk the Simon's for every penny they got.

I agree with Seth on this.....there are more professional ways to get a point across then coming off the way that Bird came off in the press conference.

Speed
06-24-2008, 03:06 PM
mcgee?

Chad Ford said McGee has been working out and teams are realizing him and DeAndre Jordan simply do not understand how to play basketball. Ford goes do you think a guy like Bird would draft a guy like that?

Putnam
06-24-2008, 03:27 PM
there are more professional ways to get a point across then coming off the way that Bird came off in the press conference.



You speak as if Bird was giving a performance. He was not trying to act professional or "come off" a special way. He's not on trial. He's not auditioning. He is the President of Basketball Operations here. Truth, lie or prevarication: he'll say what he wants to say. And you can bet he's already talked to every other team about Tinsley's bad conduct. He didn't give anything away today.

The time for Bird to handle Tinsley gently is past. Let him say what he wants to say. I imagine the organization has resolved what to do with him. Whatever he did last December or January to sour O'Brien must have been really awful. Since then, he hasn't had a friend in TPTB, and they are resolved now to deal with him. If they have to burn money to do it, they apparently are willing to burn it.


and milk the Simon's for every penny they got.


See, this is silly. Tinsley can't "milk the Simons for every penny they got." he can only demand his full contract. And you know what? The Simons have more than that. Lots more.






.

2minutes twowa
06-24-2008, 03:27 PM
After these comments by Bird, I'm convinced now that Bird will try to tack on Tinsley to any offseasons move that we make....will have little success and then TPTB will eventually buy Tinsley out.

If a GM was truly interested in Tinsley and he knows that there is very little chance that Tinsley will be in a Pacer Uniform ( IMHO...Bird has already doused the bridge with gasoline and is slowly reaching for the match to light it )....they can simply wait it out...let the Pacers buy him out...then snag him for cheap on the FA market.

If I were Tinsley...after hearing the way that Bird spoke about him in the Press Conference.....I would give the standard "I'm just going to get back to training camp and work as hard as I can to get back to game form and see what happens" response and then hold out for the most $$$ in any buyout and milk the Simon's for every penny they got.

I agree with Seth on this.....there are more professional ways to get a point across then coming off the way that Bird came off in the press conference.

Tinsley? Work hard? Game form?:laugh::lol2::lmao:

MyFavMartin
06-24-2008, 03:38 PM
Chad Ford said McGee has been working out and teams are realizing him and DeAndre Jordan simply do not understand how to play basketball. Ford goes do you think a guy like Bird would draft a guy like that?

no, I'm just trying to figure out who Arcadian wants paired with Murphy, who at a 5 can run the court and play defense.

If Bird's thinking 2 bigs, I'm thinking Arthur and Speights...

But what do I know?

Unclebuck
06-24-2008, 03:50 PM
If I were Tinsley...after hearing the way that Bird spoke about him in the Press Conference.....I would give the standard "I'm just going to get back to training camp and work as hard as I can to get back to game form and see what happens" response and then hold out for the most $$$ in any buyout and milk the Simon's for every penny they got.



On the overall point, I have no problem with what Bird said in the press conference.

CableKC - you do realize how much money the Simons have. So if Tinsley gets all the money they have he'll be a billionaire, I'm sure.

Speed
06-24-2008, 03:58 PM
no, I'm just trying to figure out who Arcadian wants paired with Murphy, who at a 5 can run the court and play defense.

If Bird's thinking 2 bigs, I'm thinking Arthur and Speights...

But what do I know?

Oh you maybe be right. I like Arthur better, but I think Speights fits that criteria better.

JayRedd
06-24-2008, 03:59 PM
On the Bird attitude front...

I think too many people look at the world of the NBA GM as either a "stock market" that fluctuates greatly on a day-to-day basis or as a "poker game" where guys are afraid to show their hand.

On the stock market view: My opinion is that players' values don't move much. Any veteran has earned his value over a series of years and months and there is very little outside of a major behavioral incident, injury or a Chauncey/Bruce Bowen-like "leap" that really leads to a big spike or drop in value.

On the "poker hand" view: I have to imagine GMs are a lot more candid on the phone with each other than they ever are in public. When Larry and Rod Thorn or whoever call up one another I imagine there are inside jokes and pot shots taken at each other all the time about their respective roster problems. I wouldn't be surprised if he had running jokes with GMs who, upon recognizing his phone number on their caller IDs, answer with "No Larry, I still don't want Jamaal." And Larry comes back with "Still licking your wounds from the Vince Carter extension, I see."

And when Chris Wallace calls up his pal Danny Ainge to chat about this or that, he probably ends every conversation with "So...any interest in Brian Cardinal? Him and Scalabrine could turn you guys into the Big Five."

Fact is, the NBA is a giant fraternity where everyone knows everyone (hell, half of them played against or idolized the other GMs at this point) and these guys are acutely aware of everyone else's situation to a degree that we, as fans, could never even come close to knowing. They know the owners, assistant GMs, middle management executives, broadcasters and overall atmosphere of the team/city more so than any of us.

In sum, I don't believe the "stock market effect" or the "poker hand outlook" have any reality in this League at all.

MyFavMartin
06-24-2008, 04:06 PM
...but I think Speights fits that criteria better.

watch out! someone will smash that comment... though he's my choice too along with koufos, though i think bird would want arthur and speights... koufos will take a couple years to fully develop...

rexnom
06-24-2008, 04:25 PM
On the Bird attitude front...

I think too many people look at the world of the NBA GM as either a "stock market" that fluctuates greatly on a day-to-day basis or as a "poker game" where guys are afraid to show their hand.

On the stock market view: My opinion is that players' values don't move much. Any veteran has earned his value over a series of years and months and their is very little outside of a major behavioral incident, injury or a Chauncey/Bruce Bowen-like "leap" that really leads to a big spike or drop in value.

On the "poker hand" view: I have to imagine GMs are a lot more candid on the phone with each other than they ever are in public. When Larry and Rod Thorn or whoever call up one another I imagine there are inside jokes and pot shots taken at each other all the time about their respective roster problems. I wouldn't be surprised if he had running jokes with GMs who, upon recognizing his phone number on their caller IDs, answer with "No Larry, I still don't want Jamaal." And Larry comes back with "Still licking your wounds from the Vince Carter extension, I see."

And when Chris Wallace calls up his pal Danny Ainge to chat about this or that, he probably ends every conversation with "So...any interest in Brian Cardinal? Him and Scalabrine could turn you guys into the Big Five."

Fact is, the NBA is a giant fraternity where everyone knows everyone (hell, half of them played against or idolized the other GMs at this point) and these guys are acutely aware of everyone else's situation to a degree that we, as fans, could never even come close to knowing. They know the owners, assistant GMs, middle management executives, broadcasters and overall atmosphere of the team/city more so than any of us.

In sum, I don't believe the "stock market effect" or the "poker hand outlook" have any reality in this League at all.
Gotta agree. Good post. This view is supported by the fact that teams' mocks are usually MUCH better than "experts'" mocks.

Shade
06-24-2008, 04:35 PM
I'm excited about Hibbert though. If there was one player in this draft that I thought was built to run JOB's system it's him. 2nd would be Koufos.

Bball is rubbing off on me. I'm hoping it offends some people too.*



* never too early to campaign and sarcasm is a good way to offend some people

I will be horribly disappointed if we end up with either of those guys. I'm willing to bet that neither will ever be more than a serviceable back-up at best.

tadscout
06-24-2008, 05:14 PM
On the Bird attitude front...

I think too many people look at the world of the NBA GM as either a "stock market" that fluctuates greatly on a day-to-day basis or as a "poker game" where guys are afraid to show their hand.

On the stock market view: My opinion is that players' values don't move much. Any veteran has earned his value over a series of years and months and there is very little outside of a major behavioral incident, injury or a Chauncey/Bruce Bowen-like "leap" that really leads to a big spike or drop in value.

On the "poker hand" view: I have to imagine GMs are a lot more candid on the phone with each other than they ever are in public. When Larry and Rod Thorn or whoever call up one another I imagine there are inside jokes and pot shots taken at each other all the time about their respective roster problems. I wouldn't be surprised if he had running jokes with GMs who, upon recognizing his phone number on their caller IDs, answer with "No Larry, I still don't want Jamaal." And Larry comes back with "Still licking your wounds from the Vince Carter extension, I see."

And when Chris Wallace calls up his pal Danny Ainge to chat about this or that, he probably ends every conversation with "So...any interest in Brian Cardinal? Him and Scalabrine could turn you guys into the Big Five."

Fact is, the NBA is a giant fraternity where everyone knows everyone (hell, half of them played against or idolized the other GMs at this point) and these guys are acutely aware of everyone else's situation to a degree that we, as fans, could never even come close to knowing. They know the owners, assistant GMs, middle management executives, broadcasters and overall atmosphere of the team/city more so than any of us.

In sum, I don't believe the "stock market effect" or the "poker hand outlook" have any reality in this League at all.

:iagree:

MyFavMartin
06-24-2008, 05:20 PM
think after all this talk of a big, we still go with augustin?

LoneGranger33
06-24-2008, 05:39 PM
Stanko Make Money?

avoidingtheclowns
06-24-2008, 05:51 PM
I would make it Hinrich, Ford, then Lowry...and I agree that Barbosa is not a point guard. If you guaranteed me 70+ games for a couple seasons, I'd put Ford at the top of that list. I'm not sure I get the attraction with Lowry, though he is considerably cheaper.

the other thing about lowry is his defense. but i don't think he'll ever be a starter.


On the "poker hand" view: I have to imagine GMs are a lot more candid on the phone with each other than they ever are in public. When Larry and Rod Thorn or whoever call up one another I imagine there are inside jokes and pot shots taken at each other all the time about their respective roster problems. I wouldn't be surprised if he had running jokes with GMs who, upon recognizing his phone number on their caller IDs, answer with "No Larry, I still don't want Jamaal."

why doesn't he want jamaal? NO TRIP-LE DOUB-LESSS! (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Shocking-dialogue-Jason-Kidd-meets-with-Rod-Tho?urn=nba,64142)

duke dynamite
06-24-2008, 06:03 PM
I'm surprised that Stanko hasn't commented on any of this...

JayRedd
06-24-2008, 06:03 PM
This sequence may be better than Ulysses.



Thorn: Jason, you're not being interviewed, stop it. You do realize how hard it is to trade someone who makes as much money as you, right? You're making 19.7 million dollars this season.

Kidd: Yeah. I'm awesome.

Thorn: Be that as it may, we have to match that salary in any trade we make.

Kidd: Kwame makes that much.

Thorn: Kwame doesn't make that much. Very few people do.

Kidd: You make that much.

Thorn: No, I don't.

Kidd: Know why?

Thorn: Why, Jason?

Kidd: NO TRIP-LE DOUB-LESSS!

Thorn: Great. Either way, there's not a lot we can do under NBA salary cap law that could ease you into a new team.

Kidd: I break laws all the time. I don't even have draft picks to do it with.

Thorn: What?

Kidd: I mean, it's easier for you to break a law, because you can just send someone a draft pick to make up for it.

Thorn: No, I mean, you break laws all the time?

Kidd: Did you see where I parked today? Look. (Points to a window, Thorn peers outside.)

Thorn: Right on the sidewalk. Ran over some kid's bike, too.

(Kidd beams.)

Thorn: Brav-o.

Kidd: Not even my car. It's Josh Boone (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4151/)'s car. I took it, I'm keeping it. Josh Boone gets NO TRIP-LE DOUB-LES!

avoidingtheclowns
06-24-2008, 06:09 PM
This sequence may be better than Ulysses.

kelly dwyer >>>>>>>> homer

JayRedd
06-24-2008, 06:19 PM
You may want to retake European Lit.

rexnom
06-24-2008, 06:31 PM
You may want to retake European Lit.
Let him get through 7th grade English first.

JayRedd
06-24-2008, 06:36 PM
Is that where they teach uppercase?

duke dynamite
06-24-2008, 06:46 PM
http://thinkrational.org/blog/archives/3kotter.jpeg

avoidingtheclowns
06-24-2008, 07:56 PM
You may want to retake European Lit.

that's an affront to my sensibilities


Is that where they teach uppercase?

and proper rules of syntax

D-BONE
06-24-2008, 08:00 PM
http://thinkrational.org/blog/archives/3kotter.jpeg

What? Juan Epstein cropped out? Where's the justice in that?

CableKC
06-24-2008, 08:03 PM
Tinsley? Work hard? Game form?:laugh::lol2::lmao:
I'm just saying that IF Tinsley was smart...he won't act like he's the one that wants out of a Pacer uniform by giving the right answer.....not the "screw Bird and the Pacers" answer that he is perfectly capable of giving.


CableKC - you do realize how much money the Simons have. So if Tinsley gets all the money they have he'll be a billionaire, I'm sure.


See, this is silly. Tinsley can't "milk the Simons for every penny they got." he can only demand his full contract. And you know what? The Simons have more than that. Lots more..
I'm trying to say that I can see Tinsley asking for the most of the $21 mil that he is owed during the buyout negotiations instead of settling for less just. The Pacers are the ones that want to get rid of him.....he can just sit back and wait for his big buyout.

Again....if you were the GM of a team that was remotely interested in Tinsley as a PG and you know that he is gonna be available in the near future...would you even bother negotiating with Bird at all when you know that you can get him for cheap after he is bought out?

My answer is that I would see what Bird had to offer....likely ask for more sweetner and then tell Bird "Thanks but no thanks". The GM then can wait for the Simons to pay for the majority of the $21 mil that Tinsley is owed and then sign him to a FA contract for 1/3 of that once he hits the FA market.

Bird can try to move him for something...but I don't even know why he's bothering. Despite what his market value is....I am pretty sure that if a team can sign him for cheap...he will end up as a rotational PG ( at least ) on some team.

avoidingtheclowns
06-24-2008, 08:03 PM
What? Juan Epstein cropped out? Where's the justice in that?

it's okay, he has a note...

duke dynamite
06-24-2008, 08:07 PM
What? Juan Epstein cropped out? Where's the justice in that?
Sorry, can't please everyone. LOL

D-BONE
06-24-2008, 08:09 PM
it's okay, he has a note...

So he was detained by Mr. Woodman in the office? Knew there had do be a reasonable explanation.

duke dynamite
06-24-2008, 08:14 PM
So he was detained by Mr. Woodman in the office? Knew there had do be a reasonable explanation.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/yeatotallyman/200px-J_Walter_Weatherman_-_AD.jpg

That's why you always leave a note!

JayRedd
06-24-2008, 09:21 PM
I believe that lesson was why you don't shout...but you still get an A for effort.

Mourning
06-24-2008, 09:22 PM
After these comments by Bird, I'm convinced now that Bird will try to tack on Tinsley to any offseasons move that we make....will have little success and then TPTB will eventually buy Tinsley out.

If a GM was truly interested in Tinsley and he knows that there is very little chance that Tinsley will be in a Pacer Uniform ( IMHO...Bird has already doused the bridge with gasoline and is slowly reaching for the match to light it )....they can simply wait it out...let the Pacers buy him out...then snag him for cheap on the FA market.

If I were Tinsley...after hearing the way that Bird spoke about him in the Press Conference.....I would give the standard "I'm just going to get back to training camp and work as hard as I can to get back to game form and see what happens" response and then hold out for the most $$$ in any buyout and milk the Simon's for every penny they got.

I agree with Seth on this.....there are more professional ways to get a point across then coming off the way that Bird came off in the press conference.

I'm pretty sure EVERY GM in the league knows Tinsley after his "adventures" the past few years...

Sounds like a buy out to me. I would have thought MAYBE Jerome James or something, but Donnie is in NYC now, so no way :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Robertmto
06-24-2008, 09:34 PM
As for Shawne, I was convinced that if we traded anyone, it'd be Ike. Now I'm not too sure. Too bad Memphis's pick is all the way down at #28.

Perfect to snag DJ White


Stanko Make Money?

wrong account




why doesn't he want jamaal? NO TRIP-LE DOUB-LESSS! (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Shocking-dialogue-Jason-Kidd-meets-with-Rod-Tho?urn=nba,64142)
amazing stuff right there

Bball
06-24-2008, 09:34 PM
Here's a hypothetical:
Let's say you have a player that is coming to practice drunk or stoned. Do you downplay this and hope to pawn him off on another team and make it their problem or do you fess up right off the bat when on the phone to other GM's?

Point being, whatever the problem, is it good business to try and take advantage of another team or is it better to be honest for the most part?

-Bball

Kegboy
06-24-2008, 09:41 PM
I understand those who say the Jamaal stuff doesn't matter because he's a lost cause, he's gonna take us for everything we've got anyway, etc.

But what about the perception of other players. I know there are those who believe we're somehow naturally deficient when it comes to free-agency, so it doesn't matter, but how's a prospective FA react to that? Sure, you can take the, "any player we'd want would appreciate Larry being a hard ***" stance, but is that realistic? Somebody could easily see that and say, "Man, that wasn't necessary." Then somebody says, "Dude, why would you want to go play for him. You know what a jackass he is from talking to Jermaine, right? Why do you want to put up with that?"

indygeezer
06-24-2008, 09:46 PM
I'm just saying that IF Tinsley was smart...he won't act like he's the one that wants out of a Pacer uniform by giving the right answer.....not the "screw Bird and the Pacers" answer that he is perfectly capable of giving.
Or tell them that he has this really big hankering to go clubbing....oh, and would you like to see the new Glock I just bought?





I'm trying to say that I can see Tinsley asking for the most of the $21 mil that he is owed during the buyout negotiations instead of settling for less just. The Pacers are the ones that want to get rid of him.....he can just sit back and wait for his big buyout. Again....if you were the GM of a team that was remotely interested in Tinsley as a PG and you know that he is gonna be available in the near future...would you even bother negotiating with Bird at all when you know that you can get him for cheap after he is bought out?

My answer is that I would see what Bird had to offer....likely ask for more sweetner and then tell Bird "Thanks but no thanks". The GM then can wait for the Simons to pay for the majority of the $21 mil that Tinsley is owed and then sign him to a FA contract for 1/3 of that once he hits the FA market.

Bird can try to move him for something...but I don't even know why he's bothering. Despite what his market value is....I am pretty sure that if a team can sign him for cheap...he will end up as a rotational PG ( at least ) on some team.

See bolded above

QuickRelease
06-24-2008, 09:59 PM
Anyone else find it ironic that Larry is pushing for immediate help over waiting on a player? Isn't that how we missed out on some kid from French Lick?

indygeezer
06-24-2008, 10:04 PM
Anyone else find it ironic that Larry is pushing for immediate help over waiting on a player? Isn't that how we missed out on some kid from French Lick?

Not really, he had to finish his college eligability. We didn't have the money to pay him (pre-rookie contract days) and we couldn't afford to draft him and wait for him to finish college. Boston could...and did. They were able to sign him jsut before he was eligible to go back into the draft...one year after being drafted.

Boy, this really taxed the ol' grey cells, hope I got it all right. I'm sure I did .

QuickRelease
06-24-2008, 10:10 PM
Finally watched the whole press conference, and as far as Larry singling out Jamaal and Shawne, he was led that way by the media (sounded like :kravitz: asking those questions. But you could tell in Larry's voice, he's through candy flossing with these guys. I'm sure these comments came after more behind the door stuff than we realize. Can you imagine how he felt after pleading with these guys over the importance of professionalism for the thousandth time, and then wake up to find Jamaal in a downtown shootout/chase? Marquis in the news for a rape occurring at his house? Shawne for harboring a fugitive (I know there has to be more to that for the Pacers to respond to it the way they did.) The "PG for sale" joke was a little unnecessary, but the "thin ice" comment was completely inbounds!

Jose Slaughter
06-25-2008, 01:01 AM
I just watched the press conference.

I think we have a deal set with the Raptors. It depends on who is available at 17. If the guy that Bird wants is still there, the deal gets done.

I had this in mind before hand & the way Bird spoke about getting another point, as well as another pick in the teens leads me to believe they have the deal lined up.

He also mentioned he didn't like to wait until Thursday to do these.

Really theres several hints pointing to something like this already set, just depends if Bird's guy is still on the board at 17.

It might actually have to wait until afterwards so the salaries match up.

Also, if you want to think about players that can come in next year & help out, there are few that could fall into that catagory not named Brandon Rush.

Several clues point in Rush's direction.

1. Bird hasn't even hinted that we're looking at a 2.

2. Bird did mention however that he wants someone that can come in & contribute next season. He's tired of waiting on the younger players to develope. Rush is 22, a 3 year college player & one of the best shooters in this draft.

Year - 2 pt FG - 3 pt FG

05-06 --.474 ---- .472
06-07 -- .443 --- .431
07-08 -- .435 --- .419

3. Bird also mention that he had been looking at 4 players that could be available at 11. 2 most likely would be there, the other 2 he seemed less certain about. Rush, by most mocks would still be there at 11.

4. Bird, according to his comments about Hibbert is concerned about someone that fits into O'Brien's system. The last time I checked, shooting 3's was still a large part of what O'Brien wants to do here. With Rush being 22, with 3 years of college under his belt & about as good a shooter as you'll find this year. I'd have to put the money I don't have on Rush being our pick at 11.

Pair TJ Ford with Rush in the backcourt & whatever player Bird wants at 17 & I'm starting to get real excited about next years team.

EDIT: I think that guy Bird might want at 17 could be Jason Thompson of Rider.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?playerId=19222&draftyear=2008
My bet is, he is & the deal gets done.

He's been flying under the radar for the most part but he's a very solid 4 year college senior with very nice rebound & FG% numbers.

I might not be able to sleep between now & Thursday night!

Will Galen
06-25-2008, 02:15 AM
I'm bullish on Stanko.

Do you have a link to the rumor we are trading Stanko to the Bulls?

Justin Tyme
06-25-2008, 06:13 AM
I just watched the press conference.

I think we have a deal set with the Raptors. It depends on who is available at 17. If the guy that Bird wants is still there, the deal gets done.

I had this in mind before hand & the way Bird spoke about getting another point, as well as another pick in the teens leads me to believe they have the deal lined up.

He also mentioned he didn't like to wait until Thursday to do these.

Really theres several hints pointing to something like this already set, just depends if Bird's guy is still on the board at 17.

It might actually have to wait until afterwards so the salaries match up.

Also, if you want to think about players that can come in next year & help out, there are few that could fall into that catagory not named Brandon Rush.

Several clues point in Rush's direction.

1. Bird hasn't even hinted that we're looking at a 2.

2. Bird did mention however that he wants someone that can come in & contribute next season. He's tired of waiting on the younger players to develope. Rush is 22, a 3 year college player & one of the best shooters in this draft.

Year - 2 pt FG - 3 pt FG

05-06 --.474 ---- .472
06-07 -- .443 --- .431
07-08 -- .435 --- .419

3. Bird also mention that he had been looking at 4 players that could be available at 11. 2 most likely would be there, the other 2 he seemed less certain about. Rush, by most mocks would still be there at 11.

4. Bird, according to his comments about Hibbert is concerned about someone that fits into O'Brien's system. The last time I checked, shooting 3's was still a large part of what O'Brien wants to do here. With Rush being 22, with 3 years of college under his belt & about as good a shooter as you'll find this year. I'd have to put the money I don't have on Rush being our pick at 11.

Pair TJ Ford with Rush in the backcourt & whatever player Bird wants at 17 & I'm starting to get real excited about next years team.

EDIT: I think that guy Bird might want at 17 could be Jason Thompson of Rider.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?playerId=19222&draftyear=2008
My bet is, he is & the deal gets done.

He's been flying under the radar for the most part but he's a very solid 4 year college senior with very nice rebound & FG% numbers.

I might not be able to sleep between now & Thursday night!


It is Speights or Chalmers at 17. Probably Speights b/c Speights will be JO's future replacement at PF.