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Anthem
06-23-2008, 01:15 PM
Interesting. Lots of movement here.

1. Rose
2. Beasley
3. Mayo
4. Westbrooke
5. Gordon
6. Gallinari
7. Bayless
8. Alexander
9. Love
10. Lopez
11. Augustin
12. Chalmers
13. Ajinca
14. Koufos
15. Rush
16. Randolph
17. Lopez
18. Arthur
19. Hibbert
20. Thompson
21. Hickson
22. Speights
23. McGee
24. Ibaka
25. Greene
26. Tomic
27. CDR
28. Jordon
29. Walker
30. Lee

Anthem
06-23-2008, 01:19 PM
Interestingly enough, Ford says the #5 pick could be available to a team willing to take Brian Cardinal. I'd offer Ike/Shawne/Quis for it, which doesn't seem much worse than Ford's idea.


Even stronger are rumors that the Grizzlies are talking to a number of teams, including the Knicks, Blazers and Suns, about deals that would send the No. 5 pick to whomever is willing to take Brian Cardinal's awful contract (2 years, $13 million left). The latest buzz has the Knicks talking to Memphis about a deal that would send David Lee and the expiring contract of Malik Rose to Memphis for No. 5 and Cardinal.

In other words, it sounds like GM Chris Wallace is, once again, being pushed by ownership to cut payroll.

Players keep being given away for free. It would be great for the Pacers to get one.

Shade
06-23-2008, 01:20 PM
Chalmers at #12?!

Shade
06-23-2008, 01:21 PM
Interestingly enough, Ford says the #5 pick could be available to a team willing to take Brian Cardinal. I'd offer Ike/Shawne/Quis for it, which doesn't seem much worse than Ford's idea.



Players keep being given away for free. It would be great for the Pacers to get one.

As much as I hate Cardinal, I'd do that for #5. We could potentially have #5, #11, and #17. That would be a nice place to start rebuilding.

Rajah Brown
06-23-2008, 01:23 PM
Chalmers at #12 and Jordan at #28 almost jump off the page. Can't
imagine Jordan falling that far. But if so, talk about reality hitting
you in the face...

The Unknown
06-23-2008, 01:35 PM
#11 and Daniels for #5 and Cardinal.

DisplacedKnick
06-23-2008, 01:36 PM
Interesting. Lots of movement here.

1. Rose
2. Beasley
3. Mayo
4. Westbrooke
5. Gordon
6. Gallinari
7. Bayless
8. Alexander
9. Love
10. Lopez
11. Augustin
12. Chalmers
13. Ajinca
14. Koufos
15. Rush
16. Randolph
17. Lopez
18. Arthur
19. Hibbert
20. Thompson
21. Hickson
22. Speights
23. McGee
24. Ibaka
25. Greene
26. Tomic
27. CDR
28. Jordon
29. Walker
30. Lee

If DW would let Bayless go to get Gallinari I'd be very tempted to give him back to you.

Of course I know nothing about Gallinari other than scouting reports but after watching Bayless - well, I can't see that happening. For that matter, why would Seattle take Westbrook over him?

rexnom
06-23-2008, 01:39 PM
Let's PLEASE get that five pick.

The Unknown
06-23-2008, 01:41 PM
If DW would let Bayless go to get Gallinari I'd be very tempted to give him back to you.

Of course I know nothing about Gallinari other than scouting reports but after watching Bayless - well, I can't see that happening. For that matter, why would Seattle take Westbrook over him?

Defense

Robertmto
06-23-2008, 01:43 PM
The Pacers already have 2 overpaid milk drinkers, why not add a 3rd?

At least this one plays D

ESutt7
06-23-2008, 01:43 PM
If that's true I hope we're working like crazy to get the 5 pick. Lots of nice players that would fit needs will be there.

Justin Tyme
06-23-2008, 01:56 PM
As much as I hate Cardinal, I'd do that for #5. We could potentially have #5, #11, and #17. That would be a nice place to start rebuilding.

I'm dreaming with you!

While we are dreaming, what about working the trade to pick up Lowry in case the JO trade falls thru? If not, Diener can be the 3rd PG many feel he is.

rexnom
06-23-2008, 01:57 PM
Imagine if Bayless is there at 5. Oh boy.

Naptown_Seth
06-23-2008, 01:57 PM
Chalmers at #12?!
Hmm, did someone leak the Pacers interest once the #17 trade goes through? Speights at 22??? Arthur at 18? Ajinca up to 13.

I'd love to get both Chalmers and Arthur (obviously by now) but they've been totally flipped in order/position till this mock. Weird. I wonder if Chad's heard things.

Justin Tyme
06-23-2008, 02:01 PM
Why did Speights do to drop so much?

Dukins
06-23-2008, 02:08 PM
Why did Speights do to drop so much?


Speak. :kickcan: Dumb as a box of rocks. I know I know, we want him for his basketball skills. :D

Justin Tyme
06-23-2008, 02:42 PM
Speak. :kickcan: Dumb as a box of rocks. I know I know, we want him for his basketball skills. :D


And just how do you think Bird would have interviewed? Scarey thought isn't it, and to think he's running the Pacers.... hopefully not into the ground.

Unclebuck
06-23-2008, 02:57 PM
Here is the whole article. it is easier to read if you click on the first link


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=MockDraft-080623

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3456680&type=story

Chad Ford's Mock Draft, Version 6.0: Picks 1-30

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Chad Ford
ESPN.com


With the NBA draft just three days away, you might think that we'd have this all figured out by now. Think again.



The Chicago Bulls are on the clock with the No. 1 pick, and they're still saying they haven't decided between Derrick Rose and Michael Beasley.



The Miami Heat are waiting to see whether they'll get a chance to draft the player they want, Derrick Rose, or whether they'll have to choose between Michael Beasley and O.J. Mayo.



The Minnesota Timberwolves are waiting, too, and talking to numerous teams about possible deals.



At least four different players have been mentioned as possible picks for the Seattle SuperSonics at No. 4.



At No. 5, the Memphis Grizzlies are talking trade, too -- to move up in the draft or to move down.



The New York Knicks, picking No. 6, are still looking at five players.



The Los Angeles Clippers are working the phones, trying to move up. Ditto for the Milwaukee Bucks.



And on and on.



Every team I speak with says the same thing: This is one of the most difficult drafts ever to predict. Different teams are coming to wildly different conclusions on the same players. Agents are insisting that their players are going higher than others project. Last minute workouts and trade talks are still changing the landscape dramatically.



On top of all of that, the draft board has been shifting rapidly the past few weeks. A number of young, inexperienced bigs have been hurting themselves in workouts. It's now a possibility that LSU's Anthony Randolph falls out of the lottery. Texas A&M's DeAndre Jordan, Nevada's JaVale McGee and Florida's Marreese Speights might not hear their names called until the 20th pick or after.



Meanwhile, a few older players like Kansas' Mario Chalmers, Rider's Jason Thompson, Georgetown's Roy Hibbert and Western Kentucky's Courtney Lee are passing them on the board -- a somewhat amazing development. Usually young, inexperienced bigs rise in the draft. Perhaps teams are adjusting their thinking after drafting for potential in past years.



With more and more information (and misinformation) flowing in from NBA team sources, here's our best educated guess as to how the draft might play out on Thursday.



And for the first time this year, we're adding our predictions for the second round as well.



Remember this mock draft is not a report of what I think teams should do. Rather, it's a forecast of what they are likely to do.



To see how the prospects rank, check out our newly updated Top 100.



CHAD FORD'S MOCK DRAFT
PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS



Chicago
Derrick Rose Position: PG
Height: 6-3
Weight: 196
Age: 19
School: Memphis




The skinny: Derrick Rose and Michael Beasley finally got their close-ups in Chicago last week, and sources say that both players worked out well.



And as you can tell from their press conferences, neither pretended to be something he's not. Rose was humble and talked about leadership. Beasley was brash and funny and talked about scoring.



The Bulls continue to maintain that they haven't made up their minds about who they're drafting. But I'd be shocked, at this point, if it isn't Rose. The team needs leadership, defense and a player who's willing to put his team before himself -- that guy is Rose. Beasley may score more and win more individual awards. But ultimately, I think the Bulls will be more comfortable with the belief that Rose can take the franchise where they want it to go.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

Miami

Michael Beasley Position: PF
Height: 6-8
Weight: 239
Age: 19
School: Kansas State






The skinny: The Heat continue to wait and hope that somehow Rose falls to them at No. 2. Rose opted against working out in Miami, but did invite Heat brass to Los Angeles for a private workout -- though Heat team president Pat Riley didn't show up.



The Heat were scheduled to be in Chicago this weekend to watch O.J. Mayo again but they skipped the workout to see Rose.



We continue to hear that the Heat will probably trade the No. 2 pick if Rose is off the board. The latest talk has the Sonics and Heat discussing a swap that would send the No. 2 pick and Mark Blount to Seattle for Chris Wilcox and the No. 4 pick. The move would give the Heat a huge amount of cap space in the summer of 2009. (Wilcox is in the last year of his contract, while Blount has two years and $16 millon remaining.)



At No. 4, if Mayo were off the board, the Heat would have their choice of Jerryd Bayless, Russell Westbrook or Brook Lopez. All three would fit a need for them.




PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

Minnesota
O.J. Mayo Position: SG
Height: 6-4
Weight: 200
Age: 20
School: USC





The skinny: The Wolves remain the most difficult team to peg right now.



As of Sunday, the word out of Minnesota was that the team will draft O.J. Mayo if Beasley is off the board. Though Mayo doesn't fit a need, he would be considered the best player available, and that appears to be swaying Minnesota in his direction.



At the same time, a lot of trade talk surrounds this pick. The Knicks, Clippers, Bucks and Trail Blazers all have tried to maneuver to get this pick. The Bucks may have the best chance of succeeding if they offer Yi Jianlian or Charlie Villanueva as part of a package.



If the Wolves trade down, their target seems to be Brook Lopez or Kevin Love.




PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

Seattle


Russell Westbrook
Position: PG
Height: 6-3
Weight: 192
Age: 19
School: UCLA




The skinny: We've had Jerryd Bayless at No. 4 since our first mock draft, but we've gathered enough information over the weekend to suggest that the Sonics may be leaning in another direction.



GM Sam Presti is notoriously tough to read, but sources say it appears that Russell Westbrook, Eric Gordon and Brook Lopez are strongly in the mix at No. 4.



The Sonics have been talking to other teams about moving down a few spots with an eye toward drafting Westbrook, Gordon or Lopez. But with the Knicks' strong interest in Westbrook and Gordon at No. 6 and the Clippers looking at Westbrook, Gordon and Lopez at No. 7, the guy they want may not be there.



So why Westbrook? Two reasons: upside and defense. The Sonics have time to let players develop and Westbrook could turn into a better shooting version of Rajon Rondo down the road.



The Sonics also want Michael Beasley and are trying to work out a deal with the Heat to get up to No. 2, as noted above. Beasley and Kevin Durant are best friends and the Sonics think a pairing of the two scorers would be devastating.



PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Memphis


Eric Gordon Position: SG
Height: 6-3
Weight: 222
Age: 19
School: Indiana






The skinny: For weeks we've been hearing that the Grizzlies are high on UCLA's Kevin Love. He fits a need, is one of the more NBA-ready players in the draft and would be popular in Memphis.



He still could be the pick. But there's a growing chorus saying that the Grizzlies are looking strongly at Indiana's Eric Gordon -- an athletic, sweet-shooting 2 guard -- with the pick.



Even stronger are rumors that the Grizzlies are talking to a number of teams, including the Knicks, Blazers and Suns, about deals that would send the No. 5 pick to whomever is willing to take Brian Cardinal's awful contract (2 years, $13 million left). The latest buzz has the Knicks talking to Memphis about a deal that would send David Lee and the expiring contract of Malik Rose to Memphis for No. 5 and Cardinal.



In other words, it sounds like GM Chris Wallace is, once again, being pushed by ownership to cut payroll.



PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

New York

Danilo Gallinari Position: SF
Height: 6-9
Weight: 212
Age: 19
Country: Italy






The skinny: OK, we've come full circle.



We had Danilo Gallinari at the Knicks in our first mock draft, but dropped him when a Suns source said that Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni wasn't a big fan. Apparently Gallinari's workout, combined with some research, has changed that opinion. Gallinari has worked out well everywhere and it sounds like the Knicks are comfortable with him here.



Russell Westbrook is also a strong possibility if he is on the board. Ditto for Jerryd Bayless. Joe Alexander is the dark horse -- Knicks brass watched him work out for a second time on Friday.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

L.A. Clippers
Jerryd Bayless Position: PG
Height: 6-3
Weight: 204
Age: 19
School: Arizona




The skinny: The Clippers have been trying to move up in the draft to get Mayo or Bayless. In this scenario, they have Bayless drop into their lap.



The Clippers are in desperate need of guards, and Mayo, Bayless, Westbrook and Gordon appear to be atop their board. Bayless' shooting and scoring ability would be a welcome addition to the Clippers, even as many scouts question whether he has what it takes to be a full-time point guard in the pros.



The other potential scenario for the Clippers is a trade. They've been talking to the Suns about a deal that would send Corey Maggette and No. 7 to Phoenix for Leandro Barbosa and No. 15.



PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Milwaukee

Joe Alexander
Position: SF
Height: 6-8
Weight: 220
Age: 21
School: West Virginia




The skinny: Alexander is a high energy forward who impressed GM John Hammond and new head coach Scott Skiles with his toughness and grit. That's exactly what the Bucks are going for right now. Hammond wants to change the culture in Milwaukee and Alexander has that capability. He also fits a need. The Bucks will be shopping Bobby Simmons (along with just about everyone else) hard this summer.



It sounds like Anthony Randolph is the other player the Bucks are looking at closely here. However, Randolph is further away than Alexander right now. Alexander is still a work in progress too, but if he figures things out he has a chance to be really special.



PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Charlotte


Kevin Love Position: PF
Height: 6-10
Weight: 255
Age: 19
School: UCLA





The skinny: If the draft plays out this way, Charlotte will have a very difficult decision to make. The Bobcats have been looking for a big man so they can slide Emeka Okafor over to the 4 full-time, and Brook Lopez would be a great complement to Okafor up front.



But a lot of teams are questioning Lopez's upside. Teams love size, but they don't see Lopez as a star NBA player. That's where Love comes in. He's a Larry Brown type of player -- he knows how to "play the right way." Love would bring toughness, rebounding, basketball IQ and the ability to step in and contribute right now. While he doesn't have ideal size, he knows his way around the basket.





PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


New Jersey

Brook Lopez
Position: C
Height: 7-0
Weight: 258
Age: 20
School: Stanford






The skinny: This is a dream scenario for the Nets if it happens. Lopez may have been projected too high at No. 3, but he would be a steal at this point in the draft. The Nets have been looking for a strong, scoring big man for years and Lopez really fits the bill.



If he's not here, other names to listen for are Danilo Gallinari (if available) and Robin Lopez, Brook's brother.



PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Indiana


D.J. Augustin Position: PG
Height: 6-0
Weight: 172
Age: 20
School: Texas



The skinny: The Pacers have been eyeing two point guards -- D.J. Augustin and Russell Westbrook -- for a while.



Westbrook looks like he'll be long gone. He canceled his workout with the Pacers last week and hasn't rescheduled. That leaves Augustin, who's an excellent fallback option for the Pacers. Augustin is a better floor leader than Westbrook and a better perimeter shooter, and he's more ready to step in and play right away. He should be an excellent fit for Indiana.



If Augustin and Westbrook are gone, the Pacers could reach for the next-best point guard on the board: Mario Chalmers. No. 11 may seem a little high for him, but he has been generating serious buzz in workouts.



The Pacers might also go in another direction if they could move Jermaine O'Neal for a veteran point guard such as T.J. Ford or Kirk Hinrich. In that case, Kosta Koufos or a similar prospect could be the choice.



PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Sacramento


Mario Chalmers
Position: PG
Height: 6-2
Weight: 170
Age: 22
School: Kansas




The skinny: The Kings might have a tough choice here: Go for an upside pick in Anthony Randolph or fill a need at the point in Chalmers.



Randolph has scared away a lot of teams with his lack of strength and a skill set that looks several years away from being fully NBA-ready.



Chalmers on the other hand, is seen as one of the most NBA-ready players in the draft. He's an excellent shooter and defender who knows how to get to the basket. His workouts have been so positive that he's no longer a reach here at No. 12.



Another option for the Kings is Roy Hibbert. Like Chalmers, Hibbert wouldn't be an upside pick. But he would be able to step in right away and contribute.




PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Portland

Alexis Ajinca Position: C
Height: 7-1
Weight: 240
Age: 20
Country: France





The skinny: It seems unlikely the Blazers will actually keep this pick. They are loaded with young players and have a history of draft day activity on the trade market.



GM Kevin Pritchard is already burning up the phone lines. I think either he'll package some of his young players with this pick and move up in the draft to get a solid prospect or he'll trade the pick for a veteran. The Blazers have had talks with the Nets about Richard Jefferson, the Suns about Leandro Barbosa and the Grizzlies about a deal that would send the No. 13 pick and the expiring contract of Raef LaFrentz to Memphis for No. 5, Brian Cardinal and Jason Collins.



In case they do keep the pick, the Blazers have been eyeing Joe Alexander and Russell Westbrook. The Blazers would like to move up to get one or both players, but so far they haven't found the right deal. For the past several weeks we've had Brandon Rush in this spot. But the more I talk to the Blazers, the more I think they may go for a bigger splash. Ajinca is a long, athletic big man who is pretty skilled. He doesn't fill a need for the Blazers, but Pritchard loves to gather assets.



PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Golden State

Kosta Koufos Position: C
Height: 7-1
Weight: 265
Age: 19
School: Ohio State



The skinny: By all accounts, Koufos has been excellent in workouts and could have become a top-five pick had he waited until 2009. Golden State has taken several big men in recent drafts, but it will probably be drafting for talent, not need -- and Koufos' combination of size and offensive skill should be a nice complement to Biedrins' defensive and rebounding prowess.



Rider's Jason Thompson and Syracuse's Donte Greene are other possibilities with this pick.





PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Phoenix
(via Atlanta)
Brandon Rush Position: SG
Height: 6-7
Weight: 205
Age: 22
School: Kansas




The skinny: The Suns have been eyeing Rush, a college veteran who can step in and play the 2 and the 3. Rush can hit open shots, play defense and stay out of the way of the Suns' stars.



Other candidates: The Suns have major interest in Mario Chalmers and Robin Lopez, and Anthony Randolph would be very tough to pass up.



But the future is now in Phoenix, and Rush seems like the guy.



PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Philadelphia

Anthony Randolph Position: PF
Height: 6-10
Weight: 197
Age: 18
School: LSU







The skinny: At some point, Randolph can drop no further.



He hasn't been great in workouts, needs to add a lot of strength and appears to be a few years away from making an impact.



But he has length, athleticism and tremendous upside, and the Sixers, a team on the rise, can afford to wait.



PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Toronto

Robin Lopez Position: C
Height: 7-0
Weight: 245
Age: 20
School: Stanford




The skinny: The Raptors really need size, toughness and rebounding. While Lopez doesn't project as a great scorer in the pros, he's a big, rugged player who could solidify the Raptors' front line. Alexis Ajinca and Donte Greene are possibilities here.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Washington
Darrell Arthur Position: PF
Height: 6-9
Weight: 216
Age: 20
School: Kansas



The skinny: The Wizards could lose free agent Antawn Jamison to free agency this summer. In case they do, they might want Arthur, a player who, in a lot of ways, is Jamison's clone -- a face-up 4 who runs the floor and can score in a variety of ways.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

Cleveland
Roy Hibbert Position: C
Height: 7-2
Weight: 275
Age: 21
School: Georgetown





The skinny: The Cavs need help inside and are hoping that Koufos falls to them. If he doesn't, they'll have a tough choice to make. Of the players projected to be available, Hibbert is the most ready to step in and help right away.



Mario Chalmers is another possibility here, if available.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

Denver


Jason Thompson Position: PF
Height: 6-11
Weight: 250
Age: 21
School: Rider



The skinny: The big man from Rider may not be flashy, but he put up big numbers for four years and would give the Nuggets something they need: a consistent scoring presence in the paint.

Thompson could end up moving ahead of a number of bigs with more upside because more teams are valuing production over potential this year.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

New Jersey
(via Dallas)

J.J. Hickson Position: PF
Height: 6-9
Weight: 240
Age: 19
School: NC State



The skinny: If the Nets grab a center with their first pick, they might look to add even more toughness in the paint with their second pick. Hickson is built like a tank and can be a tough scorer both inside and outside. He's got great upside.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

Orlando


Marreese Speights
Position: C
Height: 6-10
Weight: 245
Age: 19
School: Florida






The skinny: The Magic need a 2 guard and like Courtney Lee. But they are also very thin up front and could use big bodies to help out in the paint. Speights has too much talent to slip any further in the draft than this.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

Utah


JaVale McGee Position: PF
Height: 7-0
Weight: 241
Age: 20
School: Nevada




The skinny: This would be a disappointing drop for McGee. Though he has enormous upside, he's struggled in workouts, and teams think he's a project that could take a few years to develop. The Jazz are always on the lookout for size and upside, so this one seems like an easy call if McGee lasts this long.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

Seattle
(via Phoenix)

Serge Ibaka Position: PF
Height: 6-10
Weight: 220
Age: 18
Country: Congo




The skinny: Expect Seattle GM Sam Presti to use a trick or two from his days in San Antonio and look internationally with his second pick. Serge Ibaka has the talent to be a potential lottery pick someday, but he's still very raw. The Sonics can leave him over in Spain and reap the benefits down the road.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

Houston

Donte' Greene Position: SF
Height: 6-9
Weight: 221
Age: 20
School: Syracuse




The skinny: This seems like an unbelievable fall for a player with as much upside as Greene. Indeed, teams like the Kings and Warriors will look at him in the lottery, and likewise for the Raptors in the mid-first round. But if he slips past them, he could be on a free fall. He's a great shooter with upside, but he's not ready yet.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


San Antonio

Ante Tomic Position: C
Height: 7-2
Weight: 237
Age: 21
Country: Croatia




The skinny: The Spurs got burned by Tiago Splitter (their 2007 first-round pick), but that won't stop them from grabbing Tomic here. His skills remind some of a young Pau Gasol. He needs to get stronger and continue developing, but this would be a value pick for them. And the good news for San Antonio is that Croatian teams don't pay nearly as much as Spanish teams.



The Spurs are also trying to move up into the mid-first round for a shot at Robin Lopez.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

New Orleans

Chris Douglas-Roberts Position: SG
Height: 6-6
Weight: 195
Age: 21
School: Memphis





The skinny: Chris Douglas-Roberts would be a great fit for the Hornets if he's still on the board. He is a big-time scorer who excels at slashing to the basket. He also is an excellent midrange shooter. He should be able to step in and contribute right away.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

Memphis

DeAndre Jordan Position: C
Height: 6-11
Weight: 250
Age: 20
School: Texas A&M



The skinny: Jordan has too much talent to pass up here. The Grizzlies like Courtney Lee as well, but if they land Eric Gordon at No. 5, they can to go big here at No. 29. Jordan is a major project, but he shouldn't slip any further than this.




PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

Detroit

Bill Walker Position: SF
Height: 6-6
Weight: 235
Age: 20
School: Kansas State




The skinny: The Pistons need size in the middle, as they don't have a true center. But if all of the bigs they want are gone, look for them to take a chance on Walker. If he's healthy, he's a steal here. Joe Dumars is an opportunist who will take what he can get at No. 29.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

Boston

Courtney Lee
Position: SG
Height: 6-5
Weight: 200
Age: 22
School: Western Kentucky





The skinny: Of Boston's Big Three, Ray Allen looks like the one who could use the most help. Lee can step in from Day 1 and become an important player off the bench. His ability to shoot and score would be a big help.



• Click here for Chad Ford's second-round picks


Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPN Insider.





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2minutes twowa
06-23-2008, 03:33 PM
Wow! This draft has already been exciting and it's still 3 days away! Can't wait to see how it shakes out!:happydanc

Shade
06-23-2008, 03:41 PM
The Pacers might also go in another direction if they could move Jermaine O'Neal for a veteran point guard such as T.J. Ford or Kirk Hinrich. In that case, Kosta Koufos or a similar prospect could be the choice. Yet another reason not to do the JO deal.

Augustin/Chalmers > Ford > Koufos

DisplacedKnick
06-23-2008, 04:09 PM
Why did Speights do to drop so much?

Reason 1: It's Chad Ford who quite often doesn't know what he's talking about

Reason 2: There are some rumored attitude/intensity problems.

I have the same attitude about him as Randolph. Yeah, there are questions that could drop him 6 or 8 or 10 spots - except is there anyone in those 6 or 8 or 10 spots who has a reasonable shot at making multiple all-star games based on talent? Do you take Hibbert, Koufas or Brandon Rush over these guys? IMO those are likely NBA rotation players with a top end of being reliable starters - Randolph and Speights could be busts but they could also realize their potential and be all-stars.

That's one of the problems with drafting freshmen and sophomores - lots of 19 and 20-year-olds aren't terribly motivated. Hard to project them 2-3 years down the road.

rousea24
06-23-2008, 04:19 PM
Reason 1: It's Chad Ford who quite often doesn't know what he's talking about.

Chad Ford knows much more what he's talking about than you do. He actually talks to NBA front office personnel while you talk to....well yourself.

I don't mean to be *** here but seriously, the guy does talk to actual NBA people, so I think he knows a little more than you.

Suaveness
06-23-2008, 04:41 PM
Chad Ford knows much more what he's talking about than you do. He actually talks to NBA front office personnel while you talk to....well yourself.

I don't mean to be *** here but seriously, the guy does talk to actual NBA people, so I think he knows a little more than you.

It's Chad Ford. He rarely says something useful.

Trader Joe
06-23-2008, 04:47 PM
Imagine if Bayless is there at 5. Oh boy.

:drool:

Kegboy
06-23-2008, 09:25 PM
Chad Ford knows much more what he's talking about than you do. He actually talks to NBA front office personnel while you talk to....well yourself.

I don't mean to be *** here but seriously, the guy does talk to actual NBA people, so I think he knows a little more than you.

And you believe they actually tell him the truth?

Ford doesn't exactly have a track record for accuracy when it comes to the draft.

Shade
06-23-2008, 09:43 PM
Since Memphis needs a PF, how about Foster for Cardinal and #5? Gives them a solid PF who can play C and is also a good-sized expiring contract.

avoidingtheclowns
06-23-2008, 09:50 PM
Since Memphis needs a PF, how about Foster for Cardinal and #5? Gives them a solid PF who can play C and is also a good-sized expiring contract.

yeah because you would trade #11 and Tinsley for Eric Snow, right?

Shade
06-23-2008, 09:53 PM
yeah because you would trade #11 and Tinsley for Eric Snow, right?

If their goal is to deal the #5 simply to save money, then this would be good for them. They get rid of a bad contract, and pick up a decent expiring that fills a need temporarily in the process.

Personally, I think Memphis is nuts to deal the #5 just to get rid of Cardinal anyway, but they did do the Gasol deal, so who knows? :whoknows:

count55
06-23-2008, 09:55 PM
yeah because you would trade #11 and Tinsley for Eric Snow, right?

I don't know...Tinsley would be gone, right? I mean...well, uhh....gee....Tinsley gone?...(They probably shouldn't let me near the phone if Cleveland made that offer. ;) )

The Unknown
06-23-2008, 09:56 PM
Despite it not really saying it in the article, I'm pretty sure the potential Grizzlies deals would also include either the Blazers' (#13) or the Suns' (#15) first rounder.

If it's really on the block, we need to look into acquiring it. At #5, you're guaranteed one of Mayo, Bayless, or Love, three great prospects. I'd offer Quis' expiring and #11, and probably throw in Ike as sweetener.

Shade
06-23-2008, 09:58 PM
Despite it not really saying it in the article, I'm pretty sure the potential Grizzlies deals would also include either the Blazers' (#13) or the Suns' (#15) first rounder.

If it's really on the block, we need to look into acquiring it. At #5, you're guaranteed one of Mayo, Bayless, or Love, three great prospects. I'd offer Quis' expiring and #11, and probably throw in Ike as sweetener.

I'd do that. Then maybe deal Foster for a late first and draft DJ White?

Anthem
06-23-2008, 10:04 PM
I've got to say, I'd love coming out of this draft with Bayless. He looks like a jerk, but it would be a pretty big step up in the backcourt.

count55
06-23-2008, 10:08 PM
I've got to say, I'd love coming out of this draft with Bayless. He looks like a jerk, but it would be a pretty big step up in the backcourt.

Skip Bayless would be a pretty big step up in this backcourt.

Hicks
06-23-2008, 10:32 PM
Of all the mock draft sites/people out there, who historically is the most on-target?

Plax80
06-23-2008, 10:48 PM
Despite it not really saying it in the article, I'm pretty sure the potential Grizzlies deals would also include either the Blazers' (#13) or the Suns' (#15) first rounder.

If it's really on the block, we need to look into acquiring it. At #5, you're guaranteed one of Mayo, Bayless, or Love, three great prospects. I'd offer Quis' expiring and #11, and probably throw in Ike as sweetener.


Chris Wallace must love his job right about now.

I think they must like David Lee as much as Kevin Love which is why they might make that deal........but it would be a disaster at the box office and they would then have to resign Lee after next season or risk losing him which is why they won't do this.

Eric Gordon doesn't make any sense either unless they really don't like Lopez or Love but even then they should do better than David Lee.

What could be cool is if we could pull off a Shawne + Foster + #11 for Cardinal + Conley + #5...........that would be popular with Memphis I think since they still have Lowry and Crittenden and could add a big at 11 to go with Shawne.

we could solve PG for the next decade and still add Love at 5.

As much as I'd hate to trade away Williams I think I'd rather have Love and Conley than Shawne and DJ.

eldubious
06-23-2008, 11:02 PM
Of all the mock draft sites/people out there, who historically is the most on-target?

NBAdraft. net, their final mock draft has been pretty accurate the last couple of years.

Hicks
06-23-2008, 11:17 PM
Seriously? I find that shocking considering that before the draft is near, they seem to be pretty "out there" with some of their picks.

DisplacedKnick
06-23-2008, 11:26 PM
Chad Ford knows much more what he's talking about than you do. He actually talks to NBA front office personnel while you talk to....well yourself.

Really? How special.


I don't mean to be *** here but seriously, the guy does talk to actual NBA people, so I think he knows a little more than you.

Then he should display that at some point in his life.

We're still waiting.

BlueNGold
06-23-2008, 11:36 PM
If their goal is to deal the #5 simply to save money, then this would be good for them. They get rid of a bad contract, and pick up a decent expiring that fills a need temporarily in the process.

Personally, I think Memphis is nuts to deal the #5 just to get rid of Cardinal anyway, but they did do the Gasol deal, so who knows? :whoknows:

If the Lakers get their #5, you know the conspiracy will grow. I am the antithesis of a conspiracy theorist, but that deal really makes me wonder...

Mr. Sobchak
06-23-2008, 11:37 PM
nbadraft.net 2007 Mock Draft http://72.167.32.125/mocks/2007_nba_mock_draft.html

1. Portland Greg Oden 7-0 257 C Ohio St. Fr.
2. Seattle Kevin Durant 6-10 215 SF Texas Fr.
3. Atlanta Al Horford 6-10 244 PF Florida Jr.
*4. Memphis Mike Conley 6-1 175 PG Ohio St. Fr.
5. Boston Yi Jianlian 7-0 242 PF China 1984 35.
6. Milwaukee Jeff Green 6-9 228 SF Georgetown Jr.
7. Minnesota Joakim Noah 6-11 230 PF Florida Jr.
8. Charlotte Brandan Wright 6-10 200 PF UNC Fr.
9. *Chicago Julian Wright 6-8 211 SF Kansas So.
10. Sacramento Corey Brewer 6-8 185 SF Florida Jr.
11. *Atlanta Acie Law 6-3 186 PG Texas A&M Sr. 41.
12. Philadelphia Spencer Hawes 7-0 244 C Wash. Fr.
13. NewOrleans Nick Young 6-6 206 SG USC Jr.
14. LA Clippers Al Thornton 6-7 221 SF/PF Florida St. Sr.
15. *Detroit Marco Belinelli 6-6 200 SG Italy 1986
16. Washington Javaris Crittenton 6-4 194 PG G.Tech Fr.
17. New Jersey Rodney Stuckey 6-5 207 SG E. Wash.
18. Golden St. Thaddeus Young 6-7 210 SF GT Fr.
19. LA Lakers Rudy Fernandez 6-6 172 SG Spain 1985
20. Miami Derrick Byars 6-7 225 SG/SF Vand. Sr.
21. *Philadelphia Jason Smith 7-0 233 PF Colorado St. Jr.
22. *Charlotte Daequan Cook 6-5 210 SG Ohio St. Fr.
23. *New York Wilson Chandler 6-7 230 SF DePaul So.
24. *Phoenix Tiago Splitter 6-11 240 PF Brazil 1985
25. Utah Josh McRoberts 6-10 240 PF Duke So.
26. Houston Arron Afflalo 6-5 215 SG UCLA Jr.
27. Detroit Marc Gasol 7-0 270 C Spain 1985
28. San Antonio Alando Tucker 6-5 210 SF Wisconsin Sr.
29. Phoenix Gabe Pruitt 6-4 170 PG USC Jr.
30. *Philadelphia Sean Williams 6-10 235 PF BC Jr.


Draftexpress.com 2007 Mock Draft: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2007

First Round
1 Trailblazers Greg Oden C
20 years old; 7'0"; 257 lbs.
Ohio State, Freshman

2 SuperSonics Kevin Durant SF/PF
19 years old; 6'10"; 215 lbs.
Texas, Freshman

3 Hawks Al Horford PF/C
22 years old; 6'10"; 246 lbs.
Florida, Junior

4 Grizzlies Mike Conley Jr PG
20 years old; 6'1"; 175 lbs.
Ohio State, Freshman

5 Celtics Yi Jianlian PF/C
23 years old; 7'0"; 230 lbs.
Guangdong Tigers, International

6 Bucks Jeff Green SF/PF
21 years old; 6'9"; 228 lbs.
Georgetown, Junior

7 Timberwolves Joakim Noah PF/C
23 years old; 7'0"; 223 lbs.
Florida, Junior

8 Bobcats Corey Brewer SF
22 years old; 6'8"; 185 lbs.
Florida, Junior

9 Bulls
From
Knicks Spencer Hawes C
20 years old; 7'1"; 244 lbs.
Washington, Freshman

10 Kings Brandan Wright PF
20 years old; 6'10"; 200 lbs.
North Carolina, Freshman

11 Hawks
From
Pacers Acie Law PG
23 years old; 6'4"; 186 lbs.
Texas A&M, Senior

12 76ers Al Thornton SF/PF
24 years old; 6'7"; 221 lbs.
Florida State, Senior

13 Hornets Nick Young SG/SF
23 years old; 6'7"; 206 lbs.
USC, Junior

14 Clippers Javaris Crittenton PG
20 years old; 6'5"; 194 lbs.
Georgia Tech, Freshman

15 Pistons
From
Magic Rodney Stuckey PG/SG
22 years old; 6'5"; 207 lbs.
Eastern Wash., Sophomore

16 Wizards Julian Wright SF/PF
21 years old; 6'9"; 211 lbs.
Kansas, Sophomore

17 Nets Sean Williams C
21 years old; 6'10"; 230 lbs.
Boston College, Junior

18 Warriors Jason Smith PF/C
22 years old; 7'0"; 233 lbs.
Colorado State, Junior

19 Lakers Rudy Fernández SG
23 years old; 6'6"; 172 lbs.
DKV Joventut, International

20 Heat Thaddeus Young SG/SF
20 years old; 6'8"; 210 lbs.
Georgia Tech, Freshman

21 76ers
From
Nuggets Tiago Splitter PF/C
23 years old; 7'0"; 245 lbs.
TAU Vitoria, International

22 Bobcats
From
Raptors Daequan Cook SG
21 years old; 6'6"; 203 lbs.
Ohio State, Freshman

23 Knicks
From
Bulls Wilson Chandler SF/PF
21 years old; 6'8"; 210 lbs.
DePaul, Sophomore

24 Suns
From
Cavaliers Marco Belinelli SG
22 years old; 6'5"; 192 lbs.
Climamio Bologna, International

25 Jazz Morris Almond SG/SF
23 years old; 6'6"; 215 lbs.
Rice, Senior

26 Rockets Nick Fazekas PF/C
23 years old; 6'11"; 225 lbs.
Nevada, Senior

27 Pistons Derrick Byars SG/SF
24 years old; 6'7"; 215 lbs.
Vanderbilt, Senior

28 Spurs Jared Dudley SF/PF
22 years old; 6'7"; 219 lbs.
Boston College, Senior

29 Suns Petteri Koponen PG
20 years old; 6'5"; 194 lbs.
Honka Playboys, International

30 76ers
From
Mavericks Josh McRoberts PF/C
21 years old; 6'10"; 240 lbs.
Duke, Sophomore



Actual Draft Order:

1 Portland Greg Oden - C

2 Seattle Kevin Durant - SF

3 Atlanta Al Horford - PF

4 Memphis Mike Conley - PG

5 Boston
Traded to Seattle Jeff Green - SF

6 Milwaukee Yi Jianlian - PF

7 Minnesota Corey Brewer - SG

8 Charlotte
Traded to Golden State Brandan Wright - PF

9 Chicago
from New York Joakim Noah - PF

10 Sacramento Spencer Hawes - C

11 Atlanta
from Indiana Acie Law - PG

12 Philadelphia Thaddeus Young - SF

13 New Orleans Julian Wright - SF

14 Los Angeles Al Thornton - SF

15 Detroit
from Orlando Rodney Stuckey - SG

16 Washington Nick Young - SG

17 New Jersey Sean Williams - C

18 Golden State Marco Belinelli - SG

19 Los Angeles Javaris Crittenton - PG

20 Miami
Traded to Philadelphia Jason Smith - PF

21 Philadelphia
from Denver; Traded to Miami Daequan Cook - SG

22 Charlotte
from Toronto through Cleveland Jared Dudley - SF

23 NY Knicks
from Chicago Wilson Chandler - SF

24 Phoenix
from Cleveland through Boston; Traded to Portland Rudy Fernandez - SG

25 Utah Morris Almond - SG

26 Houston Aaron Brooks - PG

27 Detroit Arron Afflalo - SG

28 San Antonio Tiago Splitter - PF

29 Phoenix Alando Tucker - SF

30 Philadelphia
from Dallas through Denver and Golden State; Traded to Portland Petteri
Koponen - PG

Will Galen
06-23-2008, 11:46 PM
Of all the mock draft sites/people out there, who historically is the most on-target?

I read an article a couple years ago where someone compared all the mocks with the actual drafts. I don't remember who the winner was now. I do remember it wasn't a major site though.

The 30 mocks that NBA teams come up with are always good. I've read that the Pacers have pegged the 1st round of at least one draft exactly as it went down.

This year I don't think anyone is going to very accurate. Most of the top players are freshmen with potential, so teams are falling in love with certain players and trying to get them. I think it will be like the trade deadline with a furious furry of trades. There's just too many teams wanting and willing to move up or down to predict.

Here's a blurb about the nets.

http://www.netsdaily.com/blog/?p=495
Kiki Vandeweghe told Dave D’Alessandro a week ago what the final stages are like: “What I typically do is get together with a bunch of teams and compare notes and come up with a mock draft.”

Wouldn’t they lie to get a competitive advantage?

“Yes and no,” said Vandeweghe. “If you talk to enough teams, you get a consensus of what everyone thinks everyone is doing — the needs. In a week or so, we’ll get a pretty good idea, a short list of potentially who is going to be there. And then hone down and focus on those guys.”

Then, the most important mock drafts—the secret ones kept on a wall and in computers at 30 locations around North America—start going up.

ajbry
06-23-2008, 11:57 PM
All of the draft sites - and so-called draft experts like Ford - are just as clueless as we are. Taking them too seriously only results in crazy expectations for mediocre players because their "NBA comparisons" seem perfect.

I see this particular draft producing one great player and that's it... There are going to be so many busts, IMO. It won't be as lifeless a group as the 2000 class, but it'll be underwhelming.

idioteque
06-24-2008, 12:30 AM
Ford has a second round mock for 6.0 as well that actually has George Hill as our pick at #41.

MillerTime
06-24-2008, 02:28 AM
Interesting. Lots of movement here.

1. Rose
2. Beasley
3. Mayo
4. Westbrooke
5. Gordon
6. Gallinari
7. Bayless
8. Alexander
9. Love
10. Lopez
11. Augustin
12. Chalmers
13. Ajinca
14. Koufos
15. Rush
16. Randolph
17. Lopez
18. Arthur
19. Hibbert
20. Thompson
21. Hickson
22. Speights
23. McGee
24. Ibaka
25. Greene
26. Tomic
27. CDR
28. Jordon
29. Walker
30. Lee

Westbrook over Bayless?????????
Hibbert over Speights??????????
Anothony Randolph at 15???????? Bird said that Randolph is the most talented big man in the draft. And how did Love fall so much? People were so high on him lately. He aparently lost like 15 pounds

Justin Tyme
06-24-2008, 06:53 AM
I'd offer Quis' expiring and #11, and probably throw in Ike as sweetener.

Salaries don't work.

Justin Tyme
06-24-2008, 07:22 AM
yeah because you would trade #11 and Tinsley for Eric Snow, right?


To be quite honest if it was offered, and I was ownership I'd truly have to think on hard it. My reasoning is as ownership I don't want to have to spend MY MONEY to have to buy Tinjury out, nor am I looking forward to spending MY MONEY on paying his 22 mil salary over the next 3 years. As ownership, I can't afford him creating any more PR nightmares for my franchise either. From a monetary and PR point, I'd have to think REAL HARD on that offer. I'm not saying I'd do it, but I'd take some time to really consider the offer b4 making a decision.

Justin Tyme
06-24-2008, 07:25 AM
Westbrook over Bayless?????????
Hibbert over Speights??????????
Anothony Randolph at 15???????? Bird said that Randolph is the most talented big man in the draft. And how did Love fall so much? People were so high on him lately. He aparently lost like 15 pounds


In Bird's interview, he discussed Arthur not Randolph.

davstarp10
06-24-2008, 07:28 AM
Salaries don't work.



Memphis are under the cap?

avoidingtheclowns
06-24-2008, 07:39 AM
To be quite honest if it was offered, and I was ownership I'd truly have to think on hard it. My reasoning is as ownership I don't want to have to spend MY MONEY to have to buy Tinjury out, nor am I looking forward to spending MY MONEY on paying his 22 mil salary over the next 3 years. As ownership, I can't afford him creating any more PR nightmares for my franchise either. From a monetary and PR point, I'd have to think REAL HARD on that offer. I'm not saying I'd do it, but I'd take some time to really consider the offer b4 making a decision.


look, you have to move tinsley but you can't cut off your nose to spite your face. that includes trading your best assets (granger, #11, o'neal) and devaluing them for the sake of moving one player. if it is going to take #11 to move tinsley you just don't do it. it isn't worth it. you move tinsley for anything and everything that is offered in return but not at the cost of destroying your other assets. but losing/devaluing other assets puts the team in much worse shape than if tinsley just stayed.

trade tinsley for other unappealing contracts like jared jeffries, jerome james, tim thomas... but devaluing your best assets (like three years of cap space if you buy him out, trading a draft pick without getting a pick or anything of value back in return) is never a good idea. use guys like ike and quis to sweeten tinsley for people but not granger or first round picks.


overall my point was jeff foster under no circumstances is worth the #5 pick. none. that is fourteen types of ridiculous. especially for a team as far away as the grizzlies are from competing.

Justin Tyme
06-24-2008, 08:46 AM
look, you have to move tinsley but you can't cut off your nose to spite your face. that includes trading your best assets (granger, #11, o'neal) and devaluing them for the sake of moving one player. if it is going to take #11 to move tinsley you just don't do it. it isn't worth it. you move tinsley for anything and everything that is offered in return but not at the cost of destroying your other assets. but losing/devaluing other assets puts the team in much worse shape than if tinsley just stayed.

trade tinsley for other unappealing contracts like jared jeffries, jerome james, tim thomas... but devaluing your best assets (like three years of cap space if you buy him out, trading a draft pick without getting a pick or anything of value back in return) is never a good idea. use guys like ike and quis to sweeten tinsley for people but not granger or first round picks.


overall my point was jeff foster under no circumstances is worth the #5 pick. none. that is fourteen types of ridiculous. especially for a team as far away as the grizzlies are from competing.

Your opinion is duely noted, but I stick with my response. It would be a hard decision, but one I'd take much deliberation in making. Being ownership, I couldn't afford Tinsley... salarywise nor possible PRwise. The window of opportnity is closing fast on any GM sticking their neck out to take a chance on Tinsley. I'm not sure at this point any GM would/will take a chance on Tinsley. There comes a time when one has to cut their loss in business or a relationship. You try to do it the cheapest/easiest way you can.

count55
06-24-2008, 09:03 AM
look, you have to move tinsley but you can't cut off your nose to spite your face. that includes trading your best assets (granger, #11, o'neal) and devaluing them for the sake of moving one player. if it is going to take #11 to move tinsley you just don't do it. it isn't worth it. you move tinsley for anything and everything that is offered in return but not at the cost of destroying your other assets. but losing/devaluing other assets puts the team in much worse shape than if tinsley just stayed.

trade tinsley for other unappealing contracts like jared jeffries, jerome james, tim thomas... but devaluing your best assets (like three years of cap space if you buy him out, trading a draft pick without getting a pick or anything of value back in return) is never a good idea. use guys like ike and quis to sweeten tinsley for people but not granger or first round picks.


overall my point was jeff foster under no circumstances is worth the #5 pick. none. that is fourteen types of ridiculous. especially for a team as far away as the grizzlies are from competing.


Your opinion is duely noted, but I stick with my response. It would be a hard decision, but one I'd take much deliberation in making. Being ownership, I couldn't afford Tinsley... salarywise nor possible PRwise. The window of opportnity is closing fast on any GM sticking their neck out to take a chance on Tinsley. I'm not sure at this point any GM would/will take a chance on Tinsley. There comes a time when one has to cut their loss in business or a relationship. You try to do it the cheapest/easiest way you can.

I think this is an interesting convo, and while it may be highjacking this thread a little, I'm conducting an experiment.

I tend to agree with atc in that I think we can move Tinsley without packaging 1st rounders or Danny. I also think that a buyout is a poor decision. However, I feel he absolutely, positively, must go.

It's far from scientific, but I wanted to get some more opinions on it. Fans from other teams are just as biased as we are, but they're at least a different perspective, so I posted this thread (http://http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=16748892#p16748892) on the RealGM trade board to see what we'd get.

It's already gotten the Jeffries/James offers, which I'd be fine with. I figure if no interest at all came back, then a buyout might be a more realistic option. I also thought getting other guys from other teams to look would come up with crap contracts that I couldn't.

Like I said, it's not scientific in the least, but it is some different perspective. I feel like I, personally, am in brain lock about Droopy, and I suspect I'm not the only one that feels this way.

Anthem
06-24-2008, 10:51 AM
Bird said that Randolph is the most talented big man in the draft.
I try not to be as negative as Kegboy, but at this point I'm not exactly in awe at Bird's ability to scout talent.

carpediem024
06-24-2008, 10:59 AM
I'm just really hoping for the Pacers to acquire Gordon... someway he'll fit for us.

Justin Tyme
06-24-2008, 11:50 AM
I try not to be as negative as Kegboy, but at this point I'm not exactly in awe at Bird's ability to scout talent.

You mean like the James White fiasco, or never seeing the real talent when scouting Runi.... Anthony Parker? BC stole the prize right out from under Bird's nose. That truly bothers me more than the James White drafting.

I'm not a believer in Bird's ability to know talent, and have been extremely harsh on him the last few years. I've eased up lately giving him some room to make me either eat crow down the road, or hang himself. I know what I'd prefer:D, but the Pacers come 1st. I'm just afraid he'll botch this draft. I truly hope he doesn't for the Pacers sake.

Even if Bird doesn't pick players I want, he needs to choose ones that will be good future players for the franchise's sake, and his own future.

2minutes twowa
06-24-2008, 01:38 PM
You mean like the James White fiasco, or never seeing the real talent when scouting Runi.... Anthony Parker? BC stole the prize right out from under Bird's nose. That truly bothers me more than the James White drafting.

I'm not a believer in Bird's ability to know talent, and have been extremely harsh on him the last few years. I've eased up lately giving him some room to make me either eat crow down the road, or hang himself. I know what I'd prefer:D, but the Pacers come 1st. I'm just afraid he'll botch this draft. I truly hope he doesn't for the Pacers sake.

Even if Bird doesn't pick players I want, he needs to choose ones that will be good future players for the franchise's sake, and his own future.

I know what you mean. You couldn't judge him on the no-brainer Granger pick or last years 1st round absence. One thing's for sure, he is the man now, so it's time to step back and see what he can do:(

count55
06-24-2008, 01:50 PM
I know what you mean. You couldn't judge him on the no-brainer Granger pick or last years 1st round absence. One thing's for sure, he is the man now, so it's time to step back and see what he can do:(

I never agree with not giving any credit for the Granger pick. In my 15 years experieince in multiple industries, it never ceases to amaze me at the sheer volume of stupid decisions that get made and stupid actions that get taken. There is no such thing as a "no-brainer" because there's always that risk that someone will want to be too smart, too clever for their own good. [Edit: Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan (and arguably Olajuwon, but that's less clear.)]

I mean, how many times on this board alone have people advocated taking the exciting pick of a Randolph or a Jordan over a less attractive, but far less risky alternative? I'd bet a surprising number of GM's would've taken Gerald Green because "he could be a star".

I guess my point is, until people stop jabbing themselves in the eye with sharp sticks on a regular basis just to be clever, I think it's good to acknowledge and reinforce sound, if unexciting, decisions.

Was it the shrewdest move in the history of basketball? No. Was it the best (and perhaps only good) thing to happen to this franchise since the brawl? Yeah, probably.

Whtwudusay
06-24-2008, 01:55 PM
I never agree with not giving any credit for the Granger pick. In my 15 years experieince in multiple industries, it never ceases to amaze me at the sheer volume of stupid decisions that get made and stupid actions that get taken. There is no such thing as a "no-brainer" because there's always that risk that someone will want to be too smart, too clever for their own good. [Edit: Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan (and arguably Olajuwon, but that's less clear.)]

I mean, how many times on this board alone have people advocated taking the exciting pick of a Randolph or a Jordan over a less attractive, but far less risky alternative? I'd bet a surprising number of GM's would've taken Gerald Green because "he could be a star".

I guess my point is, until people stop jabbing themselves in the eye with sharp sticks on a regular basis just to be clever, I think it's good to acknowledge and reinforce sound, if unexciting, decisions.

Was it the shrewdest move in the history of basketball? No. Was it the best (and perhaps only good) thing to happen to this franchise since the brawl? Yeah, probably.

I tend to agree here. In fact, weren't some people on the board (or it could have been RATS) upset that Green wasn't taken, because "he could be the next T-Mac."?

Since86
06-24-2008, 02:00 PM
Bird's trip up on Runi, wasn't that much of a trip up to begin with.

Indiana was in a dog fight with several other teams to get him. It's not like he went over and thought he found an undiscovered gem. Runi was being sought after by several teams.

Bird was able to convince him to sign here for less money than Cleveland, and Clev. also has Z on their roster who just happens to be Runi's bestfriend.

It was an amazing signing considering how he got him. Only if he would have signed 3-4 years earlier when he actually could have produced in the NBA.

2minutes twowa
06-24-2008, 02:40 PM
I never agree with not giving any credit for the Granger pick. In my 15 years experieince in multiple industries, it never ceases to amaze me at the sheer volume of stupid decisions that get made and stupid actions that get taken. There is no such thing as a "no-brainer" because there's always that risk that someone will want to be too smart, too clever for their own good. [Edit: Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan (and arguably Olajuwon, but that's less clear.)]

I mean, how many times on this board alone have people advocated taking the exciting pick of a Randolph or a Jordan over a less attractive, but far less risky alternative? I'd bet a surprising number of GM's would've taken Gerald Green because "he could be a star".

I guess my point is, until people stop jabbing themselves in the eye with sharp sticks on a regular basis just to be clever, I think it's good to acknowledge and reinforce sound, if unexciting, decisions.

Was it the shrewdest move in the history of basketball? No. Was it the best (and perhaps only good) thing to happen to this franchise since the brawl? Yeah, probably.

Agreed. But when a top 7 guy drops to you at 17, the blame is more likely to be placed on the player than management if he's a bust. The same could be said about the Colts. When they drafted Wayne and Clark, I wasn't too happy because we needed defense at the time. When your in the organization, the big picture is a whole lot clearer than when your on the outside looking in. Sorry, I know this isn't a Colts thread:D

Justin Tyme
06-24-2008, 03:20 PM
Bird's trip up on Runi, wasn't that much of a trip up to begin with.

Indiana was in a dog fight with several other teams to get him. It's not like he went over and thought he found an undiscovered gem. Runi was being sought after by several teams.

Bird was able to convince him to sign here for less money than Cleveland, and Clev. also has Z on their roster who just happens to be Runi's bestfriend.

It was an amazing signing considering how he got him. Only if he would have signed 3-4 years earlier when he actually could have produced in the NBA.


If your reply is in referrence to my post concerning Bird mistake, my comment was about how he MISSED the better player in Anthony Parker when scouting Runi. My comment was in referrence to Bird's ability to judge talent nothing about whether the signing of Runi was a mistake.

Since86
06-24-2008, 03:39 PM
Hindsight is 20/20.

Runi is actually a year younger, and had accomplished quite a bit on the international level against the US team. He was also considered the engine that ran Tel Aviv.

EDIT: IIRC he was also considered one of, if not the best player in Europe at the time. He just busted, but everyone was fooled by him. Everyone wanted him.