PDA

View Full Version : Another JO to Cleveland rumor



pwee31
06-22-2008, 07:24 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9164




As we enter the week of the 2008 NBA Draft it's becoming clearer and clearer that the scene in New York will be a madhouse. David Stern's going to be much busier than usual as he works to stay on top of who's drafting which players and who's trading them where. Here are a few of the rumors that are dominating headlines as we head into Draft Week.

Heat Trading Wade Afterall?
Several weeks ago a rumor was floated that the Heat might trade Dwyane Wade to the Chicago Bulls, but that was quickly stamped out by Pat Riley and the Heat. Now, however, the rumor is beginning to take new shape and regain its life. The Bulls have been trying to find a taker for Tyrus Thomas, and the latest rumor has them sending him to Miami along with Larry Hughes and the first pick in the draft for Wade. How likely is it? It would seem to be more likely that the Heat draft Mayo to play alongside Wade, especially since they're in negotiations to keep Shawn Marion around long-term. That's not something you do if you're completely starting over with the top two picks in the draft.
Another rumor has the Lakers talking about sending Lamar Odom to Miami for Marion, hoping that Marion can teach the rest of the Lakers to play the kind of defense he did as a member of the Phoenix Suns. It would be unfortunate for Odom, but after a year his contract would come off the Heat's books and they could continue rebuilding in a serious way next summer. Marion would definitely look nice in Lakers purple.

Raptors After Diaw
As we've reported earlier in the week, the Raptors have expressed interest in Boris Diaw. The snag, as expected, is that the Suns don't want TJ Ford in return, and don't see what the Raptors have that would benefit them. Ford, for his part, wants to be a starter somewhere. That's not going to happen with Steve Nash in Phoenix. The Raptors are now looking for a third team to help make a Diaw trade happen, and Suns GM Steve Kerr has indicated he has moving Diaw as a high priority for the summer.

Josh Smith to Philly?
The word out of Atlanta is that they don't want to pay Josh Smith more than $11 per season, and given the fact that he's one of the up-and-coming young front court stars in the Eastern Conference you can count on that meaning Smith is finished as a Hawk. ESPN says Smith will land in Philly if the Hawks don't take care of business. It's hard to imagine the Hawks letting Smith walk just as they were starting to look like a playoff team again, but stranger things have happened.

Sonics on the Move?
No, not out of Seattle, but up in the draft - if they get their wish. The Sonics are reportedly sold on Jerryd Bayless if they wind up drafting at the fourth spot, but what they would really like to do is move up a spot or two and snag Michael Beasley. They're said to be offering Chris Wilcox as a means of moving up, and they're arguing that the Heat's real interest is in OJ Mayo, who would be available at the fourth spot.

And Finally . . .O'Neal to Cleveland?
Where there's smoke there's fire and there's so much smoke coming out of Cleveland that the whole city must be ablaze. What's circulating now is a rumor that involves as many as five teams in an effort to get either Michael Redd or Jermaine O'Neal to Cleveland. In either deal the Cavs wind up sending out Anderson Varejao and Wally Szczerbiak. There has also been talk that Varejao could end up in Oakland with the Warriors. The Cavs know they need another premier player next to LeBron James and they're working feverishly to make that happen.

Hicks
06-22-2008, 07:28 PM
There better at least be a #19 pick attached.

CableKC
06-22-2008, 07:40 PM
Can we get another Expiring Contract instead of WallyWorld? I don't know where we would find minutes for him.

croz24
06-22-2008, 07:43 PM
hmm maybe we could get gs' #14 back instead. or MAYBE #14 AND #19.

tadscout
06-22-2008, 07:50 PM
hmm maybe we could get gs' #14 back instead. or MAYBE #14 AND #19.

Yeah the key thing in that rumor is it's possibly up to 5 teams involved... so who knows all the assets + draft picks that could be involved... so it doesn't mean we have to get stuck w/ CLE players we don't want like Wally...

...but then again the larger the amount of the teams involved in the rumor the more you have to question the likelihood / credibility of it...

idioteque
06-22-2008, 08:04 PM
There is no need for Wally on this team, we have enough soft players. Without looking at numbers, I like that Big Z trade a whole lot better, that is without looking at contracts.

And no way does Miami trade Wade for Tyrus/Hughes/#1. Rose may be a really good NBA player, in fact I think he will be, but in that situation (especially if you have a high draft pick) you stick with your established third best player in the entire NBA and build around him. I would think they would be much better off with Wade/Mayo/Marion paired of course with that lucrative Miami market that is going to attract some of the best free agents to that squad.

Mourning
06-22-2008, 08:10 PM
So, we get Wally World? And a #19 pick? Get the F*** OUT!!!

JO doesn't have that much value anymore, but this is idiocy. There better be some extra benefits for the Pacers in this one.

Other teams that might be involved better come on over the bridge with something worthwile, because IF you thought that the GS caused a little backlash waite for a big one if this gets done. IF they don't up the offer then simply keep JO another year until his contract will then be an expiring one.

tadscout
06-22-2008, 08:16 PM
There is no need for Wally on this team, we have enough soft players. Without looking at numbers, I like that Big Z trade a whole lot better, that is without looking at contracts.


The way it reads to me, there are multiple teams involved... so you can't really assume we'll get Wally (especially since we don't really need him)...

YoSoyIndy
06-22-2008, 08:23 PM
JO to CLE makes sense. There's just not much on the team (ex/ LBJ) I want besides the expiring contracts and draft picks.

What is JO worth though? I think I'd rather wait a year before moving him... let the expiring contract increase his worth.

Shade
06-22-2008, 08:28 PM
WallyWorld and Sideshow Bob? Um...

NO

Haggard
06-22-2008, 08:55 PM
So, we get Wally World? And a #19 pick? Get the F*** OUT!!!

JO doesn't have that much value anymore, but this is idiocy. There better be some extra benefits for the Pacers in this one.

Other teams that might be involved better come on over the bridge with something worthwile, because IF you thought that the GS caused a little backlash waite for a big one if this gets done. IF they don't up the offer then simply keep JO another year until his contract will then be an expiring one.

This echos my feelings on this subject too..

Infinite MAN_force
06-22-2008, 08:59 PM
Wally is just a big expiring contract.

If Varejo could be turned into another pick, maybe #23 from utah, it could be interesting. Utah could send collins and hart, both expiring for varejo.

So basically we would get a lot of expiring contracts and the 19th, and 23rd picks. Its worth consideration.

tadscout
06-22-2008, 09:00 PM
WallyWorld and Sideshow Bob? Um...

NO

I'm about to give up trying to explain this, no one is listening...

This is quite possibly a multi team thing (since it mentions that 5 teams are in the discussions)... sooo just because JO goes to CLE doesn't mean we will get the CLE players...

...people are assuming way to much on here... :rolleyes:

Yes we could possibly get Wally and S. Bob... we could just get one... we could get none... and who knows about draft picks... the thing is we aren't in the negotiations (thus don't even know if there are any... or if they are, how they're going)... so I think it's quite silly to be so assumptive and closed minded on so little info...

JayRedd
06-22-2008, 09:00 PM
Gladly.

BlueNGold
06-22-2008, 09:03 PM
I know we want to cut salary, but we need to win more games. Wally adds nothing and the #19 pick is simply not even enough for a part-time player of JO's worth. The #19 pick is not at all likely to add anything next season or potentially ever.

If JO gets healthy this year and rebounds, it would be the steal of the century. If he doesn't, the Cavs lose very little. The #19 pick is not likely to be a starter. If they add Anderson V. to the deal, it might be worth it, but that's really still borderline. We have Foster who is better anyway. How many utility players do you need? We need scorers and interior defense and shot-blocking....all things JO adds.

I say we keep JO around another year and deal him next year if that's the best we can get....

BlueNGold
06-22-2008, 09:06 PM
I'm about to give up trying to explain this, no one is listening...

This is quite possibly a multi team thing (since it mentions that 5 teams are in the discussions)... sooo just because JO goes to CLE doesn't mean we will get the CLE players...

...people are assuming way to much on here... :rolleyes:

Yes we could possibly get Wally and S. Bob... we could just get one... we could get none... and who knows about draft picks... the thing is we aren't in the negotiations (thus don't even know if there are any... or if they are, how they're going)... so I think it's quite silly to be so assumptive and closed minded on so little info...

You might as well close the thread then, if no one can speculate. The thread title is JO to Cleveland...

tadscout
06-22-2008, 09:15 PM
You might as well close the thread then, if no one can speculate. The thread title is JO to Cleveland...

It's ok to speculate and share your opinions... I just get tired of some of the close-minedness that makes up their mind on so little info from a internet rumor and that aren't willing to listen to anything else... including others opinions...

I guess I'm just wishing more will read the full thing (since it mentions multiple teams)... and have an open mind...

** sorry this isn't just about this thread... just frustration built up lately on some of the close-minded attitudes and the negativity around here of late... **

count55
06-22-2008, 09:22 PM
I would have to agree, somewhat, with tadscout in that there's so little actual meat to this rumor that it's hard to have an opinion. The Pacers could end up with one of, both, or neither Wally & Varejao. It's just difficult to get worked up about a rumor that really doesn't even differentiate Michael Redd from JO.

BlueNGold
06-22-2008, 09:22 PM
It's ok to speculate and share your opinions... I just get tired of some of the close-minedness that makes up their mind on so little info from a internet rumor and that aren't willing to listen to anything else... including others opinions...

I guess I'm just wishing more will read the full thing (since it mentions multiple teams)... and have an open mind...

** sorry this isn't just about this thread... just frustration built up lately on some of the close-minded attitudes and the negativity around here of late... **

No Prob. The thing that scares me about that rumor is that it potentially involves Golden State...;)...well, back to speculating....maybe we pick up Stephen Jackson...:laugh:

Robertmto
06-22-2008, 09:41 PM
And Finally . . .O'Neal to Cleveland?
Where there's smoke there's fire and there's so much smoke coming out of Cleveland that the whole city must be ablaze. What's circulating now is a rumor that involves as many as five teams in an effort to get either Michael Redd or Jermaine O'Neal to Cleveland. In either deal the Cavs wind up sending out AndersonVarejao and Wally Szczerbiak. There has also been talk that Varejao could end up in Oakland with the Warriors. The Cavs know they need another premier player next to LeBron James and they're working feverishly to make that happen.

They must be talking about Redd here

Will Galen
06-22-2008, 09:52 PM
It's ok to speculate and share your opinions... I just get tired of some of the close-minedness that makes up their mind on so little info from a internet rumor and that aren't willing to listen to anything else... including others opinions...

I guess I'm just wishing more will read the full thing (since it mentions multiple teams)... and have an open mind...

** sorry this isn't just about this thread... just frustration built up lately on some of the close-minded attitudes and the negativity around here of late... **

For what it's worth, I agree with you. (Been there and done that) However, even the best posters don't always give something their full attention, and don't comprehend what they are reading, then go off about it. (I been there done that too)

Justin Tyme
06-22-2008, 10:00 PM
JO to CLE makes sense. There's just not much on the team (ex/ LBJ) I want besides the expiring contracts and draft picks.

What is JO worth though? I think I'd rather wait a year before moving him... let the expiring contract increase his worth.

Has Starbury's expiring increased Starbury's value? If so, I must be missing all the rumors concerning teams looking to trade for him. I have a wild hunch so is Walsh.

Has anyone even researched what the largest expiring that has ever been traded? Ratliff's 12.6 mil is the largest I can remember, and that's approx only 60% of JO's.

Even if JO's 23 mil expiring is traded next year, the Pacers will have to take a garbage or 2 contracts back to make the salaries work, or do people think a team is going to give 23 mil worth of great quality players back for JO? If the Pacers took back 3 players in trade for JO that's about 7.5 mil each. It's quite obvious these contracts won't be expiring ones, and the Pacers are stuck with how many more years with these contracts? Possibly with a player or 2 they don't want, but had to take as filler. I don't foresee any team trading for that valuable expiring of JO's until close to the Feb 2010 trade deadline AFTER the Simons have paid half, 11.5 mil, of that season salary. Now, how does this valuable expiring help make up that 11.5 mil the Simons' spent to keep this expiring?

It seems to me the best solution is to trade JO, now b4 he gets injured again, for a couple of good players, an expiring, and possibly a pick of some sort. That saves the Simons some money, not to mention it gives Bird the opportunity to pick up a contributing FA or 2 for the 09-10 season. JMOAA

LG33
06-22-2008, 10:15 PM
Is this is the L.A. deal of summer, 2008?

BlueNGold
06-22-2008, 11:32 PM
Is this is the L.A. deal of summer, 2008?

Yes, just one more signature...;)

It's no surprise this rumor arose a week before the draft. Based on timing and the players involved, it makes some sense.

Yes, there is little to bite into based on this information, but more than "meats" the eye. IMO, the term "either" makes it pretty clear there are two separate deals. One for Redd. The other for JO. I do not think it is some blockbuster involving 5 teams moving both Redd and JO around, but that's JMO. Instead, it is far more likely to be two separate deals.

For example, one involving 2 or 3 teams (Milwaukee, GS and Cleveland) that brings Redd to Cleveland. The other between Indiana and Cleveland that brings JO to Cleveland.

Yes, this is pure speculation, but there is little else that can be done with this information...

Taterhead
06-23-2008, 12:11 AM
Has Starbury's expiring increased Starbury's value? If so, I must be missing all the rumors concerning teams looking to trade for him. I have a wild hunch so is Walsh.

Has anyone even researched what the largest expiring that has ever been traded? Ratliff's 12.6 mil is the largest I can remember, and that's approx only 60% of JO's.

Even if JO's 23 mil expiring is traded next year, the Pacers will have to take a garbage or 2 contracts back to make the salaries work, or do people think a team is going to give 23 mil worth of great quality players back for JO? If the Pacers took back 3 players in trade for JO that's about 7.5 mil each. It's quite obvious these contracts won't be expiring ones, and the Pacers are stuck with how many more years with these contracts? Possibly with a player or 2 they don't want, but had to take as filler. I don't foresee any team trading for that valuable expiring of JO's until close to the Feb 2010 trade deadline AFTER the Simons have paid half, 11.5 mil, of that season salary. Now, how does this valuable expiring help make up that 11.5 mil the Simons' spent to keep this expiring?

It seems to me the best solution is to trade JO, now b4 he gets injured again, for a couple of good players, an expiring, and possibly a pick of some sort. That saves the Simons some money, not to mention it gives Bird the opportunity to pick up a contributing FA or 2 for the 09-10 season. JMOAA

Here's what I don't understand about that logic. If there won't be a market for Jermaine next year, then there isn't one this year either. You state that we can get a couple good players and expiring deals and possibly a pick now, yet if we wait til next year we'll have to settle for garbage contracts. Why would a team give a better package for him now when he's coming off an injury and pay him 44 million, yet next year when that total is cut nearly in half they will only give us garbage? That doesn't make the least bit of sense. Next year Jermaine will only be 30 years old. Plenty of teams will still take a chance on him because when he's healthy, he's at worst one of the top 10 big men in the league even if he has slipped a bit.

As far as Marbury, wait and see what he gets. The draft hasn't even happened yet, I bet he fetches something pretty good for the Knicks. Cap relief is very valuable around the league. Besides, it's totally not a fair comparison anyways. Marbury is a one dimensional shoot first PG who plays no defense and has a bad attitude. Jermaine is a very good defensive big man with offensive skills which are very hard to find.

Justin Tyme
06-23-2008, 09:31 AM
You state that we can get a couple good players and expiring deals and possibly a pick now, yet if we wait til next year we'll have to settle for garbage contracts. Why would a team give a better package for him now when he's coming off an injury and pay him 44 million, yet next year when that total is cut nearly in half they will only give us garbage?

That doesn't make the least bit of sense. Next year Jermaine will only be 30 years old. Plenty of teams will still take a chance on him because when he's healthy, he's at worst one of the top 10 big men in the league even if he has slipped a bit.

As far as Marbury, wait and see what he gets. The draft hasn't even happened yet, I bet he fetches something pretty good for the Knicks. Cap relief is very valuable around the league. Besides, it's totally not a fair comparison anyways. Marbury is a one dimensional shoot first PG who plays no defense and has a bad attitude. Jermaine is a very good defensive big man with offensive skills which are very hard to find.


Please read my last statement of my post where it says "b4 JO gets injured again."Right now, by what I have read, JO is training in Vegas and supposedly looking good with no health problems. IMO, it's not IF JO gets injured again but WHEN. Right now with what's looking like a good recovery is when you will get the MOST out of trading JO. When JO is injured again, please notice I said when, his trade value will be at an all time low. Teams might trade for the 23 mil exception at the 2010 trade deadline after the Simons have paid half of his 23 mil salary, but they want the expiring not JO thus the garbage they will offer to take JO.

A constantly and continually injured 30 year doesn't have much value. You can't live on past success and deeds forever, except in the eyes of over evaluating Pacer fans. There comes a time to take the best offer and move on, and now is the time. Why do the Simons want to continue to pay 44mil for a player who won't earn that salary thru his on court deeds? The expiring isn't that valuable to the Simons. It's costing them money not saving them money. It's the bottom line on the P&L that counts. The Pacers might be entertainment to others, but you can be guaranteed it's a busniess to the Simons. JO knows all too well it's a business otherwise he'd have opted out to pursue that championship with a contender he supposedly wants so badly!

Read your 4th sentence of your Starbury paragragh, you just answered why no team is going to trade for Starbury's expiring unless it's done close to this coming Feb trade deadeline. They might put up with him for half a season to reap the expiring. Walsh is trying to gain capspace for 2010, so why would he want to take on longer contracts of players? Remember, Walsh has to take on the same salary as Starbury in return. You might want to reconsider your bet. JMOAA