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View Full Version : Trade rumors heating up as draft approaches. - Chad Ford



Unclebuck
06-19-2008, 09:33 AM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=Drafttradetalk-080618&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fdraft2008%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumni st%3dford_chad%26page%3dDrafttradetalk-080618


With the NBA draft just days away and teams getting close to finishing their workouts with prospects, GMs are getting serious about jockeying for position in the draft.


The last few days, a number of GMs have told me the phones ring more and more, with serious trade discussions taking place. Those talks will hit a fever pitch next week.


Here's what we're hearing so far:


The Phoenix Suns have put Leandro Barbosa and Boris Diaw on the table in attempts to either move up in the draft or secure another veteran to play alongside Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire and Shaquille O'Neal.


"I think our needs are pretty clear," one Suns insider told ESPN.com. "We can't ask Grant Hill to play 40 minutes a night, and Barbosa isn't really a point guard."


The Suns own the Atlanta Hawks' pick at No. 15, but the players they covet in the draft -- Russell Westbrook, Joe Alexander and Brandon Rush -- probably will be lottery picks.


Small forwards on the market include Richard Jefferson of the New Jersey Nets, Josh Howard of the Dallas Mavericks, Gerald Wallace of the Charlotte Bobcats and Tayshaun Prince of the Detroit Pistons.


But there are stumbling blocks to each deal. The Mavs might not want to send Howard to a rival team. Detroit president Joe Dumars is probably not interested in Diaw. The Nets need contracts that expire by 2010. And it's unclear whether the Suns would be willing to take back Wallace's contract.




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The Suns and a number of other teams are talking to the Minnesota Timberwolves, New York Knicks, Los Angeles Clippers, Milwaukee Bucks, Portland Trail Blazers and Nets about trading up in (or out of) the draft.


The Wolves seem especially ready to make a deal if Michael Beasley isn't on the board at No. 3. They like several of the bigs in this draft, including Brook Lopez, Kevin Love and Danilo Gallinari, but none of them is worth taking at No. 3.


It appears the Wolves won't take back veterans, though. Several GMs told me that Kevin McHale is looking for young players only.


The Knicks' Donnie Walsh would like to find a new home for Zach Randolph, but he has struggled to find takers. And New York would love to move up a spot or two in the draft to get O.J. Mayo or Jerryd Bayless.


If it can't, much-desired Westbrook might be the target. Word of the Knicks' interest in Westbrook has generated phone calls from teams trying to get him.


The Clippers have been looking to move up to the No. 3 spot to get Mayo, and they've talked with a number of teams about virtually everyone on L.A.'s roster.


According to one Clippers insider, "No one is safe right now." With players such as Elton Brand, Al Thornton and Chris Kaman on the roster, the Clips could jolt things as the draft approaches.


The Bucks have been trying to move up in the draft to add some star power to their team.


In particular, we've heard Mayo's name associated with the Bucks. The Bucks have been trying to get into that seven-team Mayo workout in Chicago on Saturday to get a closer look.


Bucks GM John Hammond has gotten a lot of calls, with other teams especially interested in Yi Jianlian and Charlie Villanueva. Mo Williams and Michael Redd are also in play in Milwaukee right now.


The Nets, I'm told, did not make a promise to draft Danilo Gallinari -- in part, that's because they might not keep the No. 10 pick. They are trying to find a deal that brings them a star in the draft and/or allows them to move Richard Jefferson to clear cap space for the summer of 2010. Right now, it looks as though the cap space solution is the more likely option for New Jersey.


The Blazers have the 13th, 33nd, 36th and 55th picks in the draft. Obviously, they don't want four rookies joining the two they already have coming in -- Greg Oden and Rudy Fernandez.


GM Kevin Pritchard, as always, is being creative trying to package those picks with young assets such as Jarrett Jack and Travis Outlaw and the expiring contract of Raef LaFrentz to move up or to get a veteran. Portland also is considering packaging those second-round picks to get another first-round pick.

To hear Pritchard talk about the Blazers' draft plan in our Tuesday podcast, click here.




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We have, it appears, our first known promise of the draft. Multiple sources say that UCLA's Westbrook has shut down all workouts and has a promise in the mid-lottery range.


Apparently the promise isn't coming from the Knicks. They like Westbrook at No. 6, but they're also looking at Mayo, Bayless, Alexander and Eric Gordon.


The promise isn't coming from the Bucks or Pacers; neither team was able to get him in for a workout.


That leaves the Clippers at No. 7 and the Bobcats at No. 9. As noted above, the Clippers are trying to move up to get Mayo, so I doubt it's them. That leaves the Bobcats as the most likely to have made a promise to Westbrook.


One other possibility: The Seattle SuperSonics have taken a strong interest in Westbrook, according to sources. While No. 4 is a little higher than expected for him to go, one source said it's possible that the Sonics will trade down a few spots and take Westbrook.



More trade notes:


• With the Lakers flaming out in the Finals, it didn't take long for speculation about Lamar Odom to begin. A number of teams covet Odom because of his expiring contract.


I'd expect the Lakers to hear from the Nets (for Richard Jefferson), the Bulls (for Andres Nocioni), the Kings (for Ron Artest) and Memphis (for Mike Miller).


The Lakers and Grizzlies, as you might remember, have a history.


• The hottest rumor of the day has the Grizzlies and Denver Nuggets talking about a swap that would send Kyle Lowry and the No. 28 pick to Denver for the No. 20 and Linas Kleiza.


• The Cleveland Cavaliers have been talking to a number of teams about Anderson Varejao.


One possible destination for Varejao is the Golden State Warriors. According to a source familiar with the talks, the Cavs would send Varejao and the No. 19 pick to Golden State for Brandan Wright. The Warriors hold a $10 million trade exception that allows them to take back a lot more money than they send out in a trade.



Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPN Insider.

Trader Joe
06-19-2008, 09:42 AM
If Westbrook has a promise from the Clippers or Bobkitties, I really think it is shaping up that Gordon is gonna drop.

Mr. Sobchak
06-19-2008, 10:40 AM
If Westbrook has a promise from the Clippers or Bobkitties, I really think it is shaping up that Gordon is gonna drop.


Something tells me the Knicks are going to take him at 6.

2minutes twowa
06-19-2008, 10:52 AM
Things are heating up, but nothing involving the Pacers. Typical.

Fool
06-19-2008, 10:58 AM
You traded during the draft just last year, didn't you?

Unclebuck
06-19-2008, 11:04 AM
Peter Vecsey said on NBATV last night that the Lakers will look to trade Odom and Odom's people are expecting him to be traded this summer.

avoidingtheclowns
06-19-2008, 11:10 AM
You traded during the draft just last year, didn't you?

yup for Stanko.

Raskolnikov
06-19-2008, 11:12 AM
Right, the draft is tomorrow.

I'm curious.

DisplacedKnick
06-19-2008, 11:14 AM
I'll be waiting to see if we package Randolph with our draft pick to someone.

Walsh would be pilloried in the NY Press but I'm not positive that's a bad move.

The Zach Randolph we all know and ridicule won't be taken by anyone unless we offer them a huge piece of something tasty in return - or take back a problem.

This assumes Zach won't do a 180 on his game and decide to play defense and share the ball a little. I doubt it happens but you never know - new coach and GM who have a clue? Anything's possible.

I guess I'm not convinced there's anything available at 6 that will be worth more than ditching Zach's contract and being able to play in the FA market the summer of 2010. I get past the Big 4 - Beasley, Rose, Mayo & Bayless and I just can't get excited about the rest of the class - or at least I'm not more excited about picking 5 than if I was picking 15th.

NapTonius Monk
06-19-2008, 11:51 AM
If Westbrook has a promise from the Clippers or Bobkitties, I really think it is shaping up that Gordon is gonna drop.

I'm thinking that as well. I really hate the fact that we won't likely be getting Westbrook. I'm envisioning an available Gordon, and the Pacers choosing to pass. Didn't he refuse to work out here? Is there anything to that, other than him thinking he'd be picked sooner than 11th? He's the one that I see realistically dropping.

indygeezer
06-19-2008, 11:51 AM
Look for the Los Angeles Lakers to try and land an early second round pick (possibly from Seattle) in order to draft IUPUI’s George Hill. He worked out in Los Angeles and reportedly was very impressive. His college team actually ran the triangle offense, and that is always a big factor in the Lakers’ workouts.

From Draft Express

Trader Joe
06-19-2008, 11:57 AM
I'm thinking that as well. I really hate the fact that we won't likely be getting Westbrook. I'm envisioning an available Gordon, and the Pacers choosing to pass. Didn't he refuse to work out here? Is there anything to that, other than him thinking he'd be picked sooner than 11th? He's the one that I see realistically dropping.

I'd probably lose it if that happened.



RE: George Hill

From Ooey Pooey to LA huh? His head might explode.

Shade
06-19-2008, 12:05 PM
It's really starting to look like Gordon, Westbrook, and Augustin are all going to be off the board by #11.

So much for 2-3 spots in the lottery not making much of a difference...

BPump33
06-19-2008, 12:07 PM
RE: George Hill

From Ooey Pooey to LA huh? His head might explode.


Exactly what I was thinking.

2minutes twowa
06-19-2008, 12:17 PM
Peter Vecsey said on NBATV last night that the Lakers will look to trade Odom and Odom's people are expecting him to be traded this summer.

I wouldn't want anything to do with Odom! Everyone was talking about how great he played in game 3 of the finals. He did play great.....in that one game. Out of 82 regular season games, he might play great in 15-20 of them. He has so much talent and natural ability but zero motivation! What a waste!

Rajah Brown
06-19-2008, 12:24 PM
Shade-

Oh c'mon man. Are you forgetting how exciting those extra 6 or 7
wins that cost us 3-4 draft slots were ? What would last season
have been without them ?

Not !

As someone who said all along I much preferred the optimal draft
position (wether it ended up being #7 or #8) to a few meaningless
wins, while I'd rather feel vindicated, I just feel sick. #11 is no
man's land. Fortunately though, at least we've got another week
to get our expectations low enough to have at least a shot at being
pleasently surprised on draft night.

NapTonius Monk
06-19-2008, 12:27 PM
I noticed that rumor about Lowry to Denver for a position swap and Leinas Klieza (however you spell his name). I mention that, because I thought Lowry would be someone we could look at if Westbrook and Augustin are gone. If they go early, should we maybe trade down to target Chalmers?

Hicks
06-19-2008, 12:30 PM
Right, the draft is tomorrow.

I'm curious.

Actually, it's a week from tonight.

Hicks
06-19-2008, 12:33 PM
You play. To win. The game. Get over it! :rolleyes:

And this being a "poor us" moment is debatable. First of all, nothing's written in stone about them being off the board. Second of all, even if they are, the guy we pick is by no means an automatic bust.

Just pulling a random example out, but what if those three are gone, but Brook Lopez falls in our laps?

Naptown_Seth
06-19-2008, 12:38 PM
Peter Vecsey said on NBATV last night that the Lakers will look to trade Odom and Odom's people are expecting him to be traded this summer.
You lost me at "hello". ;)

The only thing that makes me believe it is that it seems like a continuing real possibility. PV makes me almost not believe it. Maybe this is LAs way of saying to the market "Odom's out there, any takers?" :D

Naptown_Seth
06-19-2008, 12:44 PM
You play. To win. The game. Get over it! :rolleyes:

And this being a "poor us" moment is debatable. First of all, nothing's written in stone about them being off the board. Second of all, even if they are, the guy we pick is by no means an automatic bust.

Just pulling a random example out, but what if those three are gone, but Brook Lopez falls in our laps?
Or Love, etc. DJ going higher is unlikely but I'd consider that a massive benefit for the purpose of bumping guys down and protecting the Pacers from a risky pick. I'm 100% with you on this issue of no tanking and let's not worry about not getting the right guy before we even know who will be the right guys in this draft. I mean I have guys I'll be excited if they draft, I'll complain about others, but ultimately it won't matter till they actually play a couple of years (or don't).

Talk of Rush being gone by 15? Wow, I think that's pushing it and I like him quite a bit.

Odd that Indy isn't mentioned in the rumors because they just have to be considering moving down or back into the first. Maybe nothing's going far, but usually the rumor mill involves who's making calls and shopping, not what's being done for certain.

Justin Tyme
06-19-2008, 12:51 PM
Look for the Los Angeles Lakers to try and land an early second round pick (possibly from Seattle) in order to draft IUPUI’s George Hill. He worked out in Los Angeles and reportedly was very impressive. His college team actually ran the triangle offense, and that is always a big factor in the Lakers’ workouts.

From Draft Express

I read that this morning and almost puked.

Mourning
06-19-2008, 01:19 PM
I'm thinking that as well. I really hate the fact that we won't likely be getting Westbrook. I'm envisioning an available Gordon, and the Pacers choosing to pass. Didn't he refuse to work out here? Is there anything to that, other than him thinking he'd be picked sooner than 11th? He's the one that I see realistically dropping.

I could be wrong, but I thought that DJ White refused to work out for the Pacers. I think there's a lot of crap beying thrown around again this year with the draft approaching (like it happens almost every year :)).

The Westbrook promiss I buy, but whom from? The Bobcats? I just don't really see Brown working out for a decent amount of time with a rookie PG. Just sounds like a disaster (for the player) to happen.

The Clippers I think are a lot more realistic as are the Knicks. Both are pretty high picks for him IMO though. But, we have seen that ahem ... "other" teams have made promises to players in the past where everybody else was thinking ":wtf:" (see for example the Hawks and Shelden Williams), so it's not totally inconceivable.


Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Trader Joe
06-19-2008, 01:25 PM
I wouldn't want anything to do with Odom! Everyone was talking about how great he played in game 3 of the finals. He did play great.....in that one game. Out of 82 regular season games, he might play great in 15-20 of them. He has so much talent and natural ability but zero motivation! What a waste!

What about his game 5? Would turn down Kobe Bryant because he didn't play well in this series too? Odom averaged a double-double this season.

Trader Joe
06-19-2008, 01:27 PM
It's really starting to look like Gordon, Westbrook, and Augustin are all going to be off the board by #11.

So much for 2-3 spots in the lottery not making much of a difference...

Then Brook Lopez probably drops to us.

Augustin going off the board helps us, so does Gallinari going off the board.

Kstat
06-19-2008, 01:30 PM
Sheed, Tayshaun and Maxiell for Gerald Wallace, Zach Randolph and the 9th pick?

I really hope that's true... :pray:

Trader Joe
06-19-2008, 01:35 PM
Sheed, Tayshaun and Maxiell for Gerald Wallace, Zach Randolph and the 9th pick?

I really hope that's true... :pray:

The question would then become who did Dumars blow to get that deal done?

Mourning
06-19-2008, 01:40 PM
You play. To win. The game. Get over it! :rolleyes:

Tell that to Miami ;).


And this being a "poor us" moment is debatable. First of all, nothing's written in stone about them being off the board. Second of all, even if they are, the guy we pick is by no means an automatic bust.

Just pulling a random example out, but what if those three are gone, but Brook Lopez falls in our laps?

True, nothing is written in stone, but we certainly severely limited our flexibility. I'm sure our scouting staff have made a list of preferred players as have the scouting teams of other franchises done.

And though you are right that the player we will select won't be an automatic bust we are not going to get the players we probably originally wanted, because they will very likely be gone, so we have to settle for a second, third or fourth choice. Not ideal at all. I would have GLADLY given three to six wins to get the player we actually wanted or at worst a second choice.

Again, doesn't mean the player we will get is going to be a bust, but we severely limited ourselves and are more or less at the mercy of other franchises screwing up or simply passing on the players we desire the most. IF they don't someone else will fall, but enough to fall into our hands and will it actually help us if it's a SF that drops and we have to pick him, because he's the best player left on our charts, creating more problems at that position or going for a (:puke:) Augustin, because we choose to pick on position of need?

I'm excited about the nearing draft, but am terrified of basically ALL the mock drafts having us go for Augustin and a little agitated at our loss of flexibility by "losing the right way" at the end of the season.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Since86
06-19-2008, 01:44 PM
Nice post Mourning.

I would also add in another puking smiley at the thought of landing Brook Lopez.

He's a big stiff. I've never liked his game.

Gyron
06-19-2008, 01:55 PM
When was the last time that the mock drafts actually got it right about who we were gonna pick?

Hicks
06-19-2008, 02:00 PM
Is Gerald really that much better than Tayshaun?

Kegboy
06-19-2008, 02:06 PM
When was the last time that the mock drafts actually got it right about who we were gonna pick?

Croshere.

Mourning
06-19-2008, 02:08 PM
When was the last time that the mock drafts actually got it right about who we were gonna pick?

True, but then again I can't remember virtually EVERY mock draft from wherever would pretty much agree on the player the Pacers would be picking, except for the draft with Kareem Rush (and gladly we didn't take him, but Freddie I think).

Most of the times the mockdrafts would disagree on who the Pacers would be picking... not this year though... I'm just really, really hoping that like the above mentioned example ALL mock drafts are wrong.

Regarding Lopez. Not convinced by him, but if he is there at #11 I would take him unless Gordon would still be on the board...

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Mourning
06-19-2008, 02:11 PM
Is Gerald really that much better than Tayshaun?

He is, but that is in my humble opinion to a large degree negated by the fact that Wallace has JO-syndrome. I.o. injured way, way too much.

I like and have always liked Prince a lot as do I like his durability (so far) and two-way talent (but, Wallace has that too).

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Kegboy
06-19-2008, 02:12 PM
I'm not a big fan of Lopez, but I'd much rather have him than Jordan or Speights. Or Koufos. Or Randolph. Or McGee. Huh, guess I like him more than I thought.

Trader Joe
06-19-2008, 02:14 PM
I'm pretty sure most people saw us being interested in Croshere.

Kegboy
06-19-2008, 02:23 PM
I'm pretty sure most people saw us being interested in Croshere.

Hard to believe I was so happy when we got him. I loved him at Providence.

Gyron
06-19-2008, 02:25 PM
He is, but that is in my humble opinion to a large degree negated by the fact that Wallace has aJO-syndrome. I.o. injured way, way too much.

I like and have always liked Prince a lot as do I like his durability (so far) and two-way talent (but, Wallace has that too).

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Gerald is hurt so much because he throws his entire body into the lane to make a lot of the points he does. He's a hell of aplyer when he's on the floor, but he won't be able to change his style of play, and it lends it self to always being hurt, so I personally would take prince over wallace.

Justin Tyme
06-19-2008, 02:28 PM
I'm not a big fan of Lopez, but I'd much rather have him than Jordan or Speights. Or Koufos. Or Randolph. Or McGee. Huh, guess I like him more than I thought.


Sorry, I like Speights and see him as JO's future replacement. I only hope Bird does as well unless Alexander falls to us. Then WELCOME Joe!

grace
06-19-2008, 02:38 PM
When was the last time that the mock drafts actually got it right about who we were gonna pick?


Croshere.

Every 11 years like clock work. :2tup:

Mourning
06-19-2008, 02:42 PM
Gerald is hurt so much because he throws his entire body into the lane to make a lot of the points he does. He's a hell of aplyer when he's on the floor, but he won't be able to change his style of play, and it lends it self to always being hurt, so I personally would take prince over wallace.

As would I :).

count55
06-19-2008, 02:44 PM
I was curious about Mourning's comments regarding all of the mocks having us pick Augustin.

I went to an NBA Mock Draft Database (http://http://dcprosportsreport.com/NBAMocks.htm) to see exactly how heavily the prognosicators were tipping towards Augustin, and it's stunning.

I looked at the 51 Mocks that had been updated since June 10 (there are probably a couple dozen more additional), and DJ Augustin was pegged as the Pacer pick a whopping 33 times.

Russell Westbrook was a distant second with 5 mentions, while Eric Gordon and DeAndre Jordan were the pick 4 times each...the four players accounting for 90% of the choices.

There were 5 other players each picked once: Darrell Arthur, Kevin Love, JaVale McGee, Mareesse Speights, and Brook Lopez.

2minutes twowa
06-19-2008, 02:45 PM
What about his game 5? Would turn down Kobe Bryant because he didn't play well in this series too? Odom averaged a double-double this season.

I didn't say he wasn't a good player, but at 6'10", 208 with an inside outside game, 3 point range and ball handling skills, he should be an all-star every year. There's a reason he's always on the trade block.

2minutes twowa
06-19-2008, 02:53 PM
I was curious about Mourning's comments regarding all of the mocks having us pick Augustin.

I went to an NBA Mock Draft Database (http://http://dcprosportsreport.com/NBAMocks.htm) to see exactly how heavily the prognosicators were tipping towards Augustin, and it's stunning.

I looked at the 51 Mocks that had been updated since June 10 (there are probably a couple dozen more additional), and DJ Augustin was pegged as the Pacer pick a whopping 33 times.

Russell Westbrook was a distant second with 5 mentions, while Eric Gordon and DeAndre Jordan were the pick 4 times each...the four players accounting for 90% of the choices.

There were 5 other players each picked once: Darrell Arthur, Kevin Love, JaVale McGee, Mareesse Speights, and Brook Lopez.

I remember 2 years ago, everyone just knew the Pacers would pick Marcus Williams. Bird shocked everyone by grabbing Shawne Williams.

Hicks
06-19-2008, 02:56 PM
Hard to believe I was so happy when we got him. I loved him at Providence.

Why did you love him?

Also, if the last time the mocks got it right was 11 years ago, it's hard to take them too seriously now.

avoidingtheclowns
06-19-2008, 03:05 PM
I'm not a big fan of Lopez, but I'd much rather have him than Jordan or Speights. Or Koufos. Or Randolph. Or McGee. Huh, guess I like him more than I thought.

thats how i feel. mainly it is about him being available at 11 vs. drafting him top 10.

count55
06-19-2008, 03:18 PM
I remember 2 years ago, everyone just knew the Pacers would pick Marcus Williams. Bird shocked everyone by grabbing Shawne Williams.

You may be right on this, but the way I remembered this was that Marcus Williams was projected top 10, then he fell, a la Danny Granger, and was available at 17. My recollection was that everyone was shocked that he fell to 17, then everyone was shocked that we passed on him.

I'd have to see if I could find anything on this one way or the other.

PR07
06-19-2008, 03:30 PM
Well, I'm a little bummed that Westbrook is probably gone. The last time we took a skinny guard from UCLA, I venture to say it worked out pretty well, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen this time.

The good news as others have mentioned is that someone should fall. Hopefully, it's not Gallinari because we don't need another SF. I doubt it's Gordon, but I guess it's still possible. More than likely, it's probably Augustin, Anthony Randolph, or Brook Lopez. I'd be happy with any of those 3.

Augustin can come in and start right away. Anthony Randolph has the makings of an all-star big in 3 years. Lopez although a bit stiff would be an excellent compliment to a healthy JO and a solid center for years to come.

2minutes twowa
06-19-2008, 03:47 PM
You may be right on this, but the way I remembered this was that Marcus Williams was projected top 10, then he fell, a la Danny Granger, and was available at 17. My recollection was that everyone was shocked that he fell to 17, then everyone was shocked that we passed on him.

I'd have to see if I could find anything on this one way or the other.

I think you're right. They didn't have the Pacers taking Marcus, but they had the Pacers biggest need being PG. So when he fell, they were shocked that the Pacers passed on him. He seems like a solid back-up, but I doubt the Nets would've traded for Devin Harris if they thought he was starter material. Guess we didn't miss much there.

Tom White
06-19-2008, 03:49 PM
Right, the draft is tomorrow.

I'm curious.

I thought the draft was next Tuesday.

2minutes twowa
06-19-2008, 03:51 PM
I thought the draft was next Tuesday.

Thursday, June 26. I think I'm going to the draft party at Conseco.

SoupIsGood
06-19-2008, 03:52 PM
Thursday, June 26. I think I'm going to the draft party at Conseco.

Greatest screen-name ever.

2minutes twowa
06-19-2008, 03:56 PM
Greatest screen-name ever.

Thanks. Everytime I see it, I have to say it in my best Reb Porter voice.:D

Tom White
06-19-2008, 04:09 PM
Thursday, June 26. I think I'm going to the draft party at Conseco.

Tuesday - Thursday each have a lot of the same letters, and I'm easily confused.:confused::laugh:

Kegboy
06-19-2008, 04:16 PM
Why did you love him?

Also, if the last time the mocks got it right was 11 years ago, it's hard to take them too seriously now.

Just imagine the 2000 playoffs Austin playing for a small potatoes Big East school. He could drive, he could shoot, he was strong, he had Shammgod to hit him in all the right places and make him look good.

Of course, if I'd known then that he would remain the exact same player, he would never improve, he would never adapt, he would keep the same 3-move arsenal his entire career, then maybe I would have thought differently.

As for the mocks, they're for entertainment purposes only. People who take them seriously should really know better.

MyFavMartin
06-19-2008, 04:30 PM
Great White Hope...

Great movie and related to your Austin's observations kegboy.

rexnom
06-19-2008, 05:42 PM
How about some form of Dunleavy for Barbosa?

Will Galen
06-19-2008, 07:55 PM
I remember 2 years ago, everyone just knew the Pacers would pick Marcus Williams. Bird shocked everyone by grabbing Shawne Williams.


I would have been shocked if Bird took him because of the trouble he had been in.

Kstat
06-19-2008, 08:08 PM
The question would then become who did Dumars blow to get that deal done?

My bad, for whatever reason I thought the follow-up article about the 6-team mega-deal was in this thread. Not sure why.

Kegboy
06-19-2008, 10:09 PM
Great White Hope...

Great movie and related to your Austin's observations kegboy.

I'm sure that had something to do with it. But I liked Shammgod too, which just shows I'm an idiot.

Of course, it's also one more example that I can't predict the future, Buck.

eldubious
06-19-2008, 10:11 PM
I'm thinking that as well. I really hate the fact that we won't likely be getting Westbrook. I'm envisioning an available Gordon, and the Pacers choosing to pass. Didn't he refuse to work out here? Is there anything to that, other than him thinking he'd be picked sooner than 11th? He's the one that I see realistically dropping.

I almost hope Gordon doesn't fall to the Pacers, because if they pass on him to take a Koufos or Speights I would turn in my membership card.

pwee31
06-19-2008, 10:56 PM
To go along with Chad Ford rumors, this is from his chat

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=21133





Darren (Wilburton, OK): Jermaine O'Neal getting moved? Where?

Chad Ford: I think it's likely. I don't know where. If he gets healthy this summer (and the word out of Las Vegas where he's working out is that he's totally healthy and getting into great shape) the Pacers should be able to get something good in return.

rm1369
06-19-2008, 11:03 PM
To go along with Chad Ford rumors, this is from his chat

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=21133

As much as I would like to see JO moved I doubt this offseason is the proper time. Most Pacer fans are sceptical (at best) of his health. Why would other teams be any different - regardless of what the workout reports state. The only way anyone is going to believe it is for him to get a healthy season (or at least a half) under his belt while playing at an above average level. That combined with his expiring contract would likely make him a very valuable commodity next offseason. I just don't see the offers being good for him while he has two years left and his health is a question mark.

Trading JO will dictate this franchises direction for the next few years. The right move will help the transition tremendously. The wrong move will continue the downward spiral. After the GS trade I have absolute confidence the team will screw this up as well.

indyman37
06-19-2008, 11:07 PM
TBird mentioned in Speights' draft analysis that he needed a bigger guy to play next to [specifically to defend bigger guys]. If JO is in fact in much better condition and does return to his previous form like he says he will, can JO be that guy?

Merz
06-19-2008, 11:16 PM
My bad, for whatever reason I thought the follow-up article about the 6-team mega-deal was in this thread. Not sure why.

Whats the proposed deal?

Kstat
06-20-2008, 12:07 AM
Whats the proposed deal?

I don't have a link, so I can't post the article here.

LG33
06-20-2008, 12:31 AM
I still don't want to trade Jermaine O'Neal.

DisplacedKnick
06-20-2008, 07:54 AM
As much as I would like to see JO moved I doubt this offseason is the proper time.

Nope - last offseason was. Year before that actually. Even by last summer it was pretty obvious JO would never play a full season again. Now it's almost certain - unless he does a Grant Hill and takes what amounts to a year off which I'm sure he won't.



The wrong move will continue the downward spiral. After the GS trade I have absolute confidence the team will screw this up as well.

They already have and you're in the middle of the spiral. JO is yours unless you accept monster baggage in return.

rm1369
06-20-2008, 08:40 AM
Nope - last offseason was. Year before that actually. Even by last summer it was pretty obvious JO would never play a full season again. Now it's almost certain - unless he does a Grant Hill and takes what amounts to a year off which I'm sure he won't.



They already have and you're in the middle of the spiral. JO is yours unless you accept monster baggage in return.

I certainly agree the ideal window has passed. I posted a trade idea a few years ago that would have brought in Jalen Roses expiring contract, Crawford and a couple minor picks. I absolutley thought it was the right move then even though it didn't bring in any big time players. Of course most hated it.

If they get a package of mediocre overpaid players just to make a move (think Ewing trade) that would be much worse than just letting his contract expire. My best hope is JO is able to play a majority of Games next year and that combined with his expiring contract will make him at least semi attractive to other teams. Right now he's a negative and I'm scared the team will again make a move to appease fans that doesn't make sense on the court.

Trader Joe
06-20-2008, 09:23 AM
To go along with Chad Ford rumors, this is from his chat

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=21133

If what Ford says is true then why should we trade JO? Even if we get something "good" we'll still be moving him for 60 cents on the dollar.

2minutes twowa
06-20-2008, 11:17 AM
From realgm.com:

Sources say the Cavs have been active in trade talks in days leading up to the draft.

If the Warriors made forward/center Al Harrington available, the Cavs might have an interest.

Forward/Center? Try SF/PF.

Tom White
06-20-2008, 11:45 AM
Forward/Center? Try SF/PF.

Nah, Al's a center. Just ask O'Neal.

pacergod2
06-20-2008, 12:07 PM
I could really see Harrington fitting in well with that Cavs team. They would need a knockdown three-baller to play point since James dominates the ball so much (re-sign Daniel Gibson). Then you could have LeBron in essence filling the SG spot because that is who he would end up guarding. Leave Harrington at the three since he can shoot well from mid- and long-range. He can also body up most SF. They slow it down with Ilgauskas on the block and they have three good rebounders in James, Harrington, and Ben Wallace. I think this lineup would be a terrific lineup for post season play. You bring in verajao and he is some flair and flash in the backcourt. This team might struggle to keep up with quicker teams a little bit, but when the playoffs come around, it comes down to the half court game.

DisplacedKnick
06-20-2008, 01:13 PM
I certainly agree the ideal window has passed. I posted a trade idea a few years ago that would have brought in Jalen Roses expiring contract, Crawford and a couple minor picks. I absolutley thought it was the right move then even though it didn't bring in any big time players. Of course most hated it.

If they get a package of mediocre overpaid players just to make a move (think Ewing trade) that would be much worse than just letting his contract expire. My best hope is JO is able to play a majority of Games next year and that combined with his expiring contract will make him at least semi attractive to other teams. Right now he's a negative and I'm scared the team will again make a move to appease fans that doesn't make sense on the court.

Yup - the Ewing trade was the start of our downward spiral, combined with Allan Houston's monster contract. You have the right idea with JO - right now hang onto him the one more year and then look at expiring offers. You can take them or the salary savings.

Trader Joe
06-20-2008, 01:17 PM
I could really see Harrington fitting in well with that Cavs team. They would need a knockdown three-baller to play point since James dominates the ball so much (re-sign Daniel Gibson). Then you could have LeBron in essence filling the SG spot because that is who he would end up guarding. Leave Harrington at the three since he can shoot well from mid- and long-range. He can also body up most SF. They slow it down with Ilgauskas on the block and they have three good rebounders in James, Harrington, and Ben Wallace. I think this lineup would be a terrific lineup for post season play. You bring in verajao and he is some flair and flash in the backcourt. This team might struggle to keep up with quicker teams a little bit, but when the playoffs come around, it comes down to the half court game.

:confused:

Since86
06-20-2008, 01:27 PM
I would have been shocked if Bird took him because of the trouble he had been in.

Yeah, who would of predicted that Shawne would be getting into trouble while Marcus stayed clean?

Dammit Kegboy, why can't you see into the future?

Kegboy
06-20-2008, 02:03 PM
Yeah, who would of predicted that Shawne would be getting into trouble while Marcus stayed clean?

Dammit Kegboy, why can't you see into the future?

I did know nothing good would come from drafting Shawne, but that's because I'd seen him play, not because I'd seen the future.

avoidingtheclowns
06-20-2008, 03:24 PM
Nah, Al's a center. Just ask O'Neal.

kudos, sir