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thunderbird1245
06-16-2008, 10:27 PM
The draft threads are coming quicker now as we get closer to the draft. The 11th player profiled in this series is Texas A&M big man DeAndre Jordan.

Jordan has been on the radar for quite a while in this state, as he was recruited heavily by Indiana University, before finally deciding to stay in his native state of Texas to play for Texas A&M under Billy Gillespie. Unfortunately for Jordan, Gillespie bolted for the bluegrass of Kentucky, and the Aggies hired a coach in Mark Turgeon that is more of a perimeter based guy. I think that change more than any other hurt Jordan's development this past season, as he and Coach Turgeon just never meshed well. That is probably one of the major reasons Jordan is entering the draft, even though he clearly isn't ready yet.

When evaluating Jordan, you are really trying to read tea leaves more than anything else. You simply have to imagine the player he could become, instead of the player that he currently is. At this moment, Jordan isn't anywhere close to being able to help an NBA team, and will likely be a developmental league type of player to begin with.

On draft night, Jay Bilas from ESPN may set a record for using the word "upside" when describing Jordan. DeAndre more than anything just LOOKS like a great player would look, even though he has none of the skills necessary at this time to actually BE great. Where he should be staying in college and learning his craft, instead he will be riding pine in the NBA or in minor league cities in the southern United States.

Jordan has a great potential NBA body. He has gigantic wingspan, runs the floor like a gazelle when he wants to, is explosive as a leaper, and is quicker for his size than any other player in the draft. He has good hands, and can catch the ball in traffic. He shows a softer shooting touch around the bucket, and has a nice little basic jump hook he shows occasionally, pretty much always turning to his left shoulder, shooting it right handed while holding his defender off with his left hand. You can clearly see where Jordan has promise offensively, but is still totally a project. His free throw shooting form is beyond horrible, as he looks like he is shooting a bowling ball instead of a basketball. I heard Bill Raftery suggest in a radio broadcast that players needed hard hats when they lined up along the lane for a free throw and Jordan was shooting. Raw is the only word you can use fo rnow, who knows what he may be 5 years from now?

As a passer, the only way to describe Jordan is "terrible." It is hard to say exactly which is worse: His awareness of what defenders are doing to him, his alertness of where his open teammates are, his actual fundamental passing techniques, or just a total unwillingness to pass in the first place. As an evaluator, you'd like to see Jordan only have one or 2 of those characteristics, but instead he has them all. If a player has a willingness to pass, but struggles making accurate and strong passes, you can coach that up. If a player wants to pass, but doesn't recognize situations well, you can coach that up. If a player can be a good passer but doesn't want to be, you can solve that problem too. Solving all of his problems is going to be a challenge.

DeAndre also has that terrible word POTENTIAL stamped across him on the defensive end. Because he is so incredibly "long" (another Jay Bilas draft night word we will be hearing alot) you can easily see that once Jordan figures out what he is doing out there, that he may end up being a plus as a weakside shotblocker. Right now he has no clue of where to be defensively, as his awareness is about as bad as you'll ever see in a lottery projected player, but he COULD develop into a good defender in time, we just can't tell yet. As of right now, he is a negative defender because his teammates can't rely on him to be in the right place, and he sometimes pouts (like all immature kids do) when things don't go well.

Jordan is a really good rebounder, and I project him to be almost a rebounding specialist early on in his career, as that is the part of the game where his awesome athleticism can help him the most. I don't think he plays with a great "nose for the ball" per se, I just think on film he is an incredible leaper, very quick off his feet, with a wingspan that reminds you of some sort of predatory animal. I bet Jordan really looks good in the old "Mikan" drill so many of us coaches still run in practice occasionally.

At this point, Jordan will be about the weakest physically of any big man in the league. In short, he pretty much resembles a toothpick on the floor. He has almost zero lower body strength, so he gets pushed off the spot almost at will by average players. He has good hands and catches the ball well, but he is so weak that he can't always keep it once he has it. He can't post up, because even a little contact knocks him way off balance. Guys can score off him inside by just jumping into him, negating his length by overpowering him. He also has terrible footwork and balance, and is easily faked out by a more clever player.

Everyone who watches him knows he is raw, that is not in question. What will make or break Jordan and the teams in position to select him will be how his attitude and body develop over time. Right now, his body looks good and has scout's imaginations running wild with thoughts of the next Dwight Howard or Andrew Bynum. But, he has work ethic and maturity questions all over him too, and no one can tell how a player will react once he becomes rich with his first contract. If he wants to become really really successful, I think if he ends up with the right team he can make it. However, it is just as likely that Jordan ends up being a major bust, perhaps one of the biggest busts of this draft, similar to Golden State's selection of Patrick O'Bryant or Detroit's selection of Darko Milecic. With Jordan's future almost being a crapshoot, the question is, do you feel lucky? Well, do ya punk?

I personally have thought alot about this, as Jordan will likely be picked very near us, and many draft projections have him listed as our second our third possible choice. A few even have him as our pick in their mock draft. It is a tough call, because Jordan is a player who can get you fired for picking him, and also fired for not picking him, as is described accurately on draftexpress.

My personal feeling is that I would pass on Jordan if available at 11, and would go in another direction. I have all sorts of reasons why, some due to his own personality, and some due to my own opinions on what the Pacers traditionally do well as an organization.

Jordan had such a bad year at Texas A&M that it concerns me. I know attitude wise being an 18 yr old kid in a new environment is a big adjustment, but for a player you are going to give millions to, I'd like to see above average maturity, and with Jordan it just isn't there. I have major concerns about his ability to handle criticism, about his ability to handle the NBA lifestyle, about his work ethic and desire to improve his game, and whether he truly wants to be a great player, instead of just a guy who collects a check. It bothers me greatly that he did not get along well at all with Coach Turgeon, who is regarded as one of the better coaches in the country. It bothers me that his foul shooting is so pitiful, since in many cases that is a indicator of not working hard at your game. (not every case obviously, but I don't look at Jordan and think of Shaq or Wilt, do you?)

This is all psychoanalysis now, and away from my pure basic basketball way of thinking, but when I watched Jordan play this season, one huge thing I thought was missing from his repotoire was JOY OF PLAYING. I just didn't see a kid who enjoyed playing basketball, who enjoyed the attention and notoriety of being a big time player. He looked like a sourpuss to me, and a player who had an unhappiness about him that rubbed off no doubt on his teammates, and which probably rubbed their new staff the wrong way in College Station Texas. That really bothered me...I thought he seemed mentally weak, and didnt handle the challenge of playing against better competition well. I don't see the hunger, the burning desire to be great. I freely admit this could all be crap, because I don't know the kid personally obviously, and making decisions like this by watching tape is a major mistake I know. It is interaction with teammates and personality traits that you have to study in person, not on DVD while sitting taking notes. It is why scouting is an art, not a science. I would assume the entire league is basing their opinion of Jordan on factors like these however, using personality tests and interviews with his background and past to determine whether he is worth the investment. Great players show more self confidence and more swagger than Jordan does to me, but am I right or wrong? Who knows?

In many ways, I think drafting Jordan might be like buying a brand new car. While somebody is going to do it, you might be better of to wait and buy it later, after the initial depreciation happens. Jordan looks like a player to me that will struggle badly early, show some potential attitude and adjustment problems, and reach the end of his rookie contract either ready to flame out of the league, or ready to bust out and become a beast. We might be better off seeing which way he goes before investing our hopes, dreams, cash, and #11 pick in him, which is too valuable to waste for a team in our situation.

If we were a better franchise, with a couple of championships in our past and recent success of developing a big player well, I might feel differently. But we have too many holes and too many weaknesses I think to push all of our chips to the middle and select Jordan....I think our current state of our roster demands a safer pick. If we do select Jordan, we will need to bring back a mentor type of player for him to almost be his babysitter for a while, and no, Sam Perkins isn't it. We don't have a great big man coach at all in Indianapolis, and I don't trust our franchise to be one that can grow Jordan to be the beast that he might end up being.

I personally hope Jordan goes ahead of us to New Jersey, so we don't have to make that decision as a franchise. My opinion is that they will select him at #10 and see what happens, leaving us to be able to select someone else for more immediate help.

I can't think of a really good comparable to Jordan in the 80's or 90's, because many players like him didnt make teams back then. Of course, back then he would have stayed in college 4 years, making that last statement moot.

Modern day players who he reminds me of potentially are Tyson Chandler and Nene, which I suppose are better players than I think Jordan will end up being. I think Jordan looks more like Saer Sene, who the Sonics gambled on and likely lost with a few years ago.

As always, the above is just my opinion.

Tbird

BlueNGold
06-16-2008, 10:37 PM
Nice interview though...

Wow, after what you have said, I wouldn't touch this guy. Sounds a bit too much like another 7 footer we are about to release. What a shame...

idioteque
06-16-2008, 10:42 PM
I am meh on DeAndre Jordan. He seems just like Saer Sene, but by all accounts Sene was at least a hard worker, where Jordan is not.

Infinite MAN_force
06-16-2008, 11:02 PM
he did come off pretty well in his interview on pacers.com.

Yeah, I hope Jersey picks him. Just leave us out of it. I feel like if we pick him he will bust and if someone after us picks him he will be a superstar, just how our luck goes with these types.

Mr. Sobchak
06-16-2008, 11:09 PM
Its too bad Sene had microfracture surgery this year- He's only 21 years old. Either way I think the jury's still out on him.

QuickRelease
06-16-2008, 11:11 PM
Agreed. If we're going to go with a big man, I would really prefer Speights over Jordan. If we take Jordan, I just have this strong feeling that he will never truly pan out as we hope he will.

Kegboy
06-16-2008, 11:27 PM
JOY OF PLAYING

Yep. We don't need another Olawakandi.

The last thing the Pacers should be doing is gambling with this pick. We need talent, not potential.

CableKC
06-17-2008, 02:19 AM
If we were a better franchise, with a couple of championships in our past and recent success of developing a big player well, I might feel differently. But we have too many holes and too many weaknesses I think to push all of our chips to the middle and select Jordan....I think our current state of our roster demands a safer pick.
This passage in your post says it all.....we CANNOT afford to gamble on this draft pick....especially on a player like Jordan. I already had my doubts on Jordan.....but your post solidifies it all.

I really hope that he really impresses some Scout on some team ahead of us in the draft....I really don't want Bird to wrap his head around whether they should take a risk on Jordan or not. To tell you how much I don't want to draft Jordan, I would much rather draft Augustin over Jordan....and I don't want Augustin at all in this draft.

Rajah Brown
06-17-2008, 07:13 AM
When it comes to big guys, I'll take a less talented kid with a solid
work ethic and comeptitive streak over an athletic freak w/o those
things any day. Jordan strikes me as the latter and he's probably
an 80/20 guy. Or, 80% possibility he busts, 20% chance he reaches
his potential.

That's worth a taking a flyer somewhere after #20 when your team
is already pretty solid. It's not at #11.

Justin Tyme
06-17-2008, 08:29 AM
That's worth a taking a flyer somewhere after #20 when your team
is already pretty solid. It's not at #11.


Sounds like the 04 #29 pick, and we all know how that has worked out!

Justin Tyme
06-17-2008, 08:35 AM
I agree with QR and a few others in that for a big man I would take Speights. Nothing I have read about the other "bigs" has waivered my opinion on Speights being a good pick for the Pacers as a "BIG."

count55
06-17-2008, 08:46 AM
I'm pleased to see that my views fit with tbird's...it makes me feel better about my thoughts. Jordan is my nightmare pick...all potential with too many questions.

Naptown_Seth
06-17-2008, 10:55 AM
...making that last statement mute.
I'll be the d*** before Graham shows up. "Moot" not "mute". :) If that offended you add it to my vote total next year. w00t


I also agree with the "don't gamble on him with this pick" POV. How can you at this point? This team is nowhere near the point of success and stability that you need to be to risk this, unless you are blindly desperate, which usually leads to more failure anyway.

This kid always looked like he was going through the motions. Contrast that with the notoriously immature and uncontrollable Beasley who always played like he cared about winning.

You'd like to see Jordan using game time as his chance to prove out the chip on his shoulder, but instead he took the "this stinks and I'll show you it does" method to running the system. Better to go loose cannon and do your own thing to show scouts what you have if you are trying to prove something about your own coach's utilization of your game and make yourself some money.

thunderbird1245
06-17-2008, 11:15 AM
[quote=Naptown_Seth;736903]I'll be the d*** before Graham shows up. "Moot" not "mute". :) If that offended you add it to my vote total next year. w00t

Problem fixed.....good catch!

I'm glad to see that most people who are posting agree with my point of view on Jordan, but I will say this: At some point, if we are to win a championship someday, we will probably need to gamble on a kid like this and hope he pans out.

There are times to roll the dice that make sense. The Antonio Davis for the draft pick that became Jonathon Bender was a great move in my opinion that just didn't work. If it had, our franchises fortunes the last few years would have been remarkably different. Back then, we had veteran mentors for Bender, a stable franchise, and a team with depth that didn't need immediate contributions from him.

That was the ideal time to make a risky move....this is not, in my view.

ABADays
06-17-2008, 01:22 PM
You'd like to see using game time as his chance to prove out the chip on his shoulder, but instead he took the "this stinks and I'll show you it does" method to running the system.

TINSLEY!!!!!!!!!!

Mr. Sobchak
06-17-2008, 06:38 PM
I posted this in the draft thread but I think it might be a better fit here...

Thought this was interesting.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=oneil_dana&id=3437642


Jordan's game trying to catch up with his body

PHILADELPHIA -- The kids were merciless.

"C'mon," they'd scream. "You're the tallest guy out here. We keep throwing you the ball, and you don't do anything. You're awful."

And those were DeAndre Jordan's teammates.

That's the thing about being tall; people assume you are born with the tools of Wilt Chamberlain and the skills of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Forget that Jordan felt more like an awkward colt, all elbows and ankles as he tried to adjust to his chronically growth-spurting body.

He was the tallest kid in his class every year. He should be able to play.

"Oh my god, I heard so much trash talk," Jordan said and laughed.

The expectations didn't change much when he got to college, when that body had sprouted to 7 feet and the entire state of Super-Size-Me Texas expected Jordan to deliver great things to Texas A&M. He was OK but not a force, averaging 7.9 points, 6.0 rebounds and 1.3 blocks per game in his first and only season with the Aggies.

Now Jordan is about to pack his size 18 sneakers for the NBA. In a league that loves nothing more than potential and upside, the freakishly athletic Jordan induces salivating. He has hardly grown into his frame, his strength is all concentrated in his lower body with his upper body still like a piece of putty waiting for a weight-room sculptor to mold it.

He can handle the ball fairly well -- at a recent workout he did a series of 100 dribble drills, fumbling only twice -- and is a tremendous rebounder. His weakest link is his offense, but the NBA is littered with guys who couldn't/can't shoot.

On every draft board, he is a lottery pick lock. ESPN.com's Chad Ford rated him the 15th-best player in the draft, concluding that "on talent and physical ability, he's got the makings of a Top 5 pick."

But is the big, awkward kid ready to blossom?

"If someone is looking for instant gratification, he's not the right guy," said former NBA scout Steve Rosenberry, who's been working out Jordan for the past seven weeks in Philadelphia. "But three years from now, I mean who knows? Nobody has a crystal ball, but he could be the third-best player in this draft."

That's nothing shy of astounding to people who remember how Jordan played in the postseason.

And there probably aren't many who do remember him.

In two Big 12 tourney games and two NCAA tournament games, Jordan had seven points and five rebounds. Total.

"He'd make a play, we'd sit on the bench and think, 'There goes a first-rounder,'" Texas A&M coach Mark Turgeon said recently. "Five minutes later, he'd do something else and we'd think, 'He's coming back.'"

Far from home, far from anything he knows, the Houston native -- who has already signed with an agent, thus closing the book on a return to College Station -- has become a hoops rat. He spends upward of four hours a day in the gym at Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine (the same place the 76ers practice) before heading back to his hotel room.

Kansas State's Michael Beasley was here for a while but he left a few weeks ago, so Jordan's free time is pretty routine.

"What do I do when I'm done? Sleep," he said.

Most people would agree this change of scenery is exactly what Jordan needed. Blessed with ungodly physical talents -- he's a YouTube dunk favorite -- Jordan needed to reawaken his passion for the game.

College sort of sucked it out of him.

Like a lot of freshmen, Jordan struggled with the weight of expectations compared to the reality of results. In the hypercompetitive Big 12, he had great games (14 points and 9 rebounds versus lowly Colorado), average games (8 and 6 versus Iowa State) and awful games (2 and 3 versus Oklahoma State). And he rode the roller coaster of emotion with every one.

Before the season started, a frustrated Turgeon said "he's 18 going on 12" of Jordan's emotions. Jordan admits his tattered self-esteem would take a bath every time Turgeon yelled at him.

"I talked to him about getting too high and too low, but that's tough for me at my age and that young man had extraordinary pressure on him," Turgeon said. "Sometimes he'd get low, and it would carry over to practice. It was an ongoing thing. We talked all the time."

There's no room for mood swings in an 82-game NBA season. Coaches don't have the time or the interest in coddling players or offering buck-up speeches. Don't produce and want to pout? The guy one seat over will gladly take your job.

Consequently Rosenberry has spent as much time on Jordan's mental toughness as his physical skills. He admits he "loves the kid" and delighted at a recent prank Jordan pulled. But he hasn't been afraid to give him a good verbal lashing.

On Friday, Jordan had two awful practices, Rosenberry said. Jordan wasn't hitting his shots, so he decided everything he had done had been wasted.

Rosenberry not so gently explained to him that wasn't the case.

"When guys are young, everything is predicated on how many shots they make," Rosenberry said. "That's not who he is. His shot will get better with repetition and I told him, 'Everybody has days when you don't make shots.' I give him a lot of credit. He came back Saturday [in a private workout with 19 teams], and his workout was off the charts. He's come a long way."

If a sign of maturity is recognizing where you messed up and admitting it, Jordan is on his way. He knows now that his emotional and mental makeup interfered with his physical progress at A&M, knows he has no one to blame but himself.

"You have to keep a level head, stay on the path, and I didn't do that," Jordan said. "I was inconsistent because I'd get down on myself. I think if I went back to college, people would see a different player."

Maybe even a kid who plays as big as he stands.

eldubious
06-17-2008, 09:39 PM
I think the Pacers are locked in on a big man and it's not Jordan or Spieghts. Think Koufos. I just hope they don't take him at 11 rather with a second 1st round pick.

Mr. Sobchak
06-17-2008, 11:41 PM
I think the Pacers are locked in on a big man and it's not Jordan or Spieghts. Think Koufos. I just hope they don't take him at 11 rather with a second 1st round pick.

Yeah I hope not either. But it certainly looks like we are interested in him. T-Bird said there was a rumour that he came in for a "secret" workout, then he came in on Monday to work out and he his supposed to work out again for us later this week. Although I have a slightly higher opinion of him than T-Bird I think he will only be a rotational player in the NBA.

Shade
06-18-2008, 12:59 AM
I think the Pacers are locked in on a big man and it's not Jordan or Spieghts. Think Koufos. I just hope they don't take him at 11 rather with a second 1st round pick.

I don't want Jordan. I will absolutely flip out if we draft Koufos. :suicide:

PR07
06-18-2008, 01:14 AM
I guess I'm one of the few people who likes Koufos. I wouldn't take him at #11, but I think he'll make a solid starting C in this league.

Shade
06-18-2008, 01:35 AM
I guess I'm one of the few people who likes Koufos. I wouldn't take him at #11, but I think he'll make a solid starting C in this league.

DJ White > Koufos

That's all you need to know.

PR07
06-18-2008, 01:45 AM
Right now, yes. DJ White might be one of the most immediate impact bigs in this draft. I think he'll be like Utah's Paul Millsap where he will impact a team from the bench his very first season. However, I don't see him getting much better than he is.

Give me 4 years, and I think Koufos is Mehmet Okur, and DJ is well...still Paul Millsap. That's not a bad thing though, you need those type of guys.

Hicks
06-18-2008, 01:56 AM
I don't want Jordan. I will absolutely flip out if we draft Koufos. :suicide:

Can't wait for Thursday. :devil:

Justin Tyme
06-18-2008, 08:27 AM
Yeah I hope not either. But it certainly looks like we are interested in him. T-Bird said there was a rumour that he came in for a "secret" workout, then he came in on Monday to work out and he his supposed to work out again for us later this week. Although I have a slightly higher opinion of him than T-Bird I think he will only be a rotational player in the NBA.

Geezer started a JOB thread where it was stated by JOB, IIRC, "the team isn't necessarily looking for players who fit well into their offensive system."

After reading the above post, it makes me wonder if the referrence could be to Koufos. Even if the Pacers add another 1st, I sure hope they don't draft him. RB is right Koufos would be just a duplication of Murphy, and why do the Pacers need 2 of them? One's more than enough, especially at his albatross salary!

D-BONE
06-18-2008, 08:40 AM
The draft can't come soon enough! All the speculation is killing me.

Koufous if we've traded down I could probably live with. We couldn't seriouslly be targeting him with the 11, right? My feelings on him are somewhat like how I view Hibbert. Top ceiling probably a solid rotational player, borderline effective starter potential. Neither appropriate at 11. Jordan makes me very uneasy period.

Personally, I continue to be focused on how we will approach the acquisition of one or more PG options. Still think this has to be our top short term priority. Or have Tins, JOB, et al reconciled?

Kegboy
06-18-2008, 09:04 AM
I'm sure it's mentioned elsewhere, but Jordan fell to #21 in Ford's latest Mock.

As for Koufos, I like the kid, but I think there are better options for us out there, even late 1st round. I see him as a borderline starter at best, the kind of guy who ends up starting for a bad team because they don't have anybody better.

count55
06-18-2008, 09:29 AM
I'm sure it's mentioned elsewhere, but Jordan fell to #21 in Ford's latest Mock.

As for Koufos, I like the kid, but I think there are better options for us out there, even late 1st round. I see him as a borderline starter at best, the kind of guy who ends up starting for a bad team because they don't have anybody better.

He's (Jordan) also dropped to 19 in Draft Express' latest mock.

Naptown_Seth
06-18-2008, 11:58 AM
Can't wait for Thursday. :devil:
What if I said Shade and I will team up to go on a kill crazy rampage ala Natural Born Killers if they draft Koufos? That should dampen your anticipation a bit.

Barring some brilliant trade situation I'd see Koufos at 11 as a HUGE mistake. I'd never even considered it a real option till the last few days. And it still has me :hmm:

Naptown_Seth
06-18-2008, 12:10 PM
I posted this in the draft thread but I think it might be a better fit here...

Thought this was interesting.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=oneil_dana&id=3437642
Yikes. Bison Dele springs to mind. Almost forced to play because of his size but with no history of passion for the game from within himself, emotionally hyper-sensitive and prone to mood swings, not particulary skilled in any offensive area, is a gym rat because he'll spend UPWARD of FOUR hours in the gym in preparation for the draft which is the ONLY thing he has going on in his life at this moment (goes back to a hotel room afterward).

What's not to like?

thunderbird1245
06-18-2008, 12:36 PM
What if I said Shade and I will team up to go on a kill crazy rampage ala Natural Born Killers if they draft Koufos? That should dampen your anticipation a bit.

Barring some brilliant trade situation I'd see Koufos at 11 as a HUGE mistake. I'd never even considered it a real option till the last few days. And it still has me :hmm:


It probably is a toss up among all three of us on who dislikes Koufos as a player the most. Personally, I'm stunned anyone is considering drafting him in the top 20. In my own draft threads I think I compared him to Stuart Gray. In doing so, I got an email from a friend of mine who said that was unfair, and that it wasn't right to insult Stuart that way!

Koufos can't play.

The thing that is keeping my sanity about this is that I strongly suggest that our interest in him is all smoke and mirrors, designed to hide whoever we are really interested in.

If we DID select Koufos at #11, I would strongly suspect that a deal would be in the works with the Cavaliers, who supposedly like Koufos. In that scenario we would be selecting the player they want at #11 for them, although I can't quite grasp what the specifics of a deal between the 2 teams involving our #11 pick would look like.

Shade
06-18-2008, 12:40 PM
For those who have been saying that there isn't a huge difference between, say, #8 and #11 in this draft:

Gordon/Westbrook vs. Jordan/Koufos

blanket
06-18-2008, 12:43 PM
If we DID select Koufos at #11, I would strongly suspect that a deal would be in the works with the Cavaliers, who supposedly like Koufos. In that scenario we would be selecting the player they want at #11 for them, although I can't quite grasp what the specifics of a deal between the 2 teams involving our #11 pick would look like.

If we do swap picks with the Cavs (presumably as part of a JO trade), I hope we can pick up one of Speights, Lee, Chalmers, or Arthur at #19.

Maybe Wally/Z/Varejao/19 for JO/Tinsley/11, or Wally/Snow/Varejao/19 for JO/Tinsley/11

Justin Tyme
06-18-2008, 01:25 PM
If we do swap picks with the Cavs (presumably as part of a JO trade), I hope we can pick up one of Speights, Lee, Chalmers, or Arthur at #19.

Maybe Wally/Z/Varejao/19 for JO/Tinsley/11, or Wally/Snow/Varejao/19 for JO/Tinsley/11


The thought of either one of those deals really makes me sick. I want JO and Tinjury gone as much as the next person, but that is a terrible deal! If that is the BEST deal Bird can come up with, then there needs to be another move made... firing Bird.

Anthem
06-18-2008, 06:35 PM
is a gym rat because he'll spend UPWARD of FOUR hours in the gym in preparation for the draft which is the ONLY thing he has going on in his life at this moment (goes back to a hotel room afterward).

What's not to like?
Yeah, I had the exact same thought.

Anthem
06-18-2008, 06:37 PM
Right now, yes. DJ White might be one of the most immediate impact bigs in this draft. I think he'll be like Utah's Paul Millsap where he will impact a team from the bench his very first season. However, I don't see him getting much better than he is.
Which is what they said about Boozer, who I wanted us to take in the middle of the round. He dropped all the way to the second round, which looks pretty stupid now.


Give me 4 years, and I think Koufos is Mehmet Okur, and DJ is well...still Paul Millsap. That's not a bad thing though, you need those type of guys.
I'd take Millsap over Okur.

eldubious
06-18-2008, 06:56 PM
I am puzzled by the Pacers interest in Koufos, don't we already have Stanko? Koufos reminds me of Primoz Brezec, he'll be lucky to be on the level of Okur. I hope it is a smoke screen. But, one thing I noticed about the Pacers is that they always draft who they workout. It will more than likely be the same way this year.

Mr. Sobchak
06-19-2008, 12:18 AM
I am puzzled by the Pacers interest in Koufos, don't we already have Stanko? Koufos reminds me of Primoz Brezec, he'll be lucky to be on the level of Okur. I hope it is a smoke screen. But, one thing I noticed about the Pacers is that they always draft who they workout. It will more than likely be the same way this year.

I might be wrong but I don't think Granger ever worked out for us before the draft because he wasn't expected to be available. Lopez could fall that same way this year. :pray:

Hicks
06-19-2008, 12:23 AM
I think Granger did because I remember the story from Bird basically coming up to Danny and apologizing for the Pacers wasting DG's time because he was sure he'd be picked long before #17.

Mr. Sobchak
06-19-2008, 12:27 AM
You're right just found the story..

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/draft_050628.html


Now I'm worried- I don't think we've done enough to workout players that might slip in this draft unless they came in for "private" workouts that I haven't heard about.