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NapTonius Monk
06-12-2008, 01:45 PM
Do you think maybe we would be one of the teams to take a flier on this kid? He messed up his knee pretty gruesomely. But if he returns to form, he could be had relatively cheap.

From HoopsWorld by Jason Fleming:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9007

Shaun Livingston: It what may not be a surprise, word is the Los Angeles Clippers will not make point guard Shaun Livingston a qualifying offer by the end of the month to make him a restricted free agent. This means Livingston will be free to sign with whomever he likes, though considering he is still recovering from that horrible knee injury it's doubtful teams will be lining up to offer him big money. Or maybe any money. What wouldn't be a surprise is if Livingston then re-signed with the Clippers, but at something much lower than the qualifying offer for a former #2 draft pick – think two years and $3-4 million. That's enough money to entice Livingston given the likely market, and also cheap enough for the Clippers to hedge against whether or not the young point guard will fully make a recovery and be productive.

DGPR
06-12-2008, 01:54 PM
Everytime I see him I think of when he bent his knee BACKWARDS!!!

jeffg-body
06-12-2008, 01:57 PM
I feel bad for the kid. That was one of the nastiest injuries I had ever seen in any sport and he is still rehabbing today. I think we would have to pass, just too much of a risk.

Unclebuck
06-12-2008, 01:59 PM
Prior to the injury I really wanted the Pacers to go after him, I suggested that the pacers should trade JO for him. Obviously now we don't know how well he's going to come back. But sure I would take a chance on him.

I rememeber watching him I the 2006 playoffs and I was extremely impressed. Excellent defender, difficult to guard, sure he wasn't a great outside shooter, but if he can come back I bet his shooting really improves because I'm sure he has been practicing that a ton.

eldubious
06-12-2008, 02:02 PM
The odds of players coming back from grusome injuries like that are slim. Just look at Jay Williams. If he came back to full strength, the Clippers would have signed him already.

Since86
06-12-2008, 02:13 PM
The odds of players coming back from grusome injuries like that are slim. Just look at Jay Williams. If he came back to full strength, the Clippers would have signed him already.

Willis McGahee says hello.

Tearing your knee up today isn't the same as having the same injury 10-15 yrs ago. Then, it was a death sentence, you would never be the same. Now, if you do your rehab correctly and be patient you can have just as strongly structured knee as before.

The problem with people that continually retear something isn't so much their knee as opposed to their mechanics. Something in the way they move, or the way their body reacts, causes high levels of stress on the tissue.

I'm not saying that he will never have knee troubles again. I'm just saying that taking a freak play like he did doesn't necessarily mean that he won't recover. If he doesn't have mechanical problems, and actually goes all the way through rehab without rushing, there is a very high percentage that his knee will be fine in the future. Trusting your doctors and trusting your knee when it is healed is the hardest part.

I know several athletes that have torn up their knees in several different ways and are still performing without braces and without pain/side-effects.

I understand that people are shy about knee situations from the Bender fiasco, but he really is an anomaly.

EDIT: As a fun FYI, fun for me atleast, there are studies out now showing that women are at higher risks for knee tears because of the angle of their femurs due to their pelvis flaring.

RomanGabriel
06-12-2008, 02:38 PM
You've got to swing for the fences every now and then, especially in our current situation. This guy would be a grand slam. The trick is to find out as much as possible and IF the chances of him regaining his mobility are good you have to beat the other suitors' offers before they make the same determination.

Mr. Sobchak
06-12-2008, 02:47 PM
Before he got injured I thought he would be something great. He is a 6'7'' POINT GUARD. Think of a backcout of a healthly Livingston and Eric Gordon. I don't see why we shouldnt take a gamble on him if the price is right. Whats the worst that can happen?- He sits on the bench as a 10th-11th man?

Hicks
06-12-2008, 03:39 PM
I think he's worth gambling on next summer if it's no worse than, say 3 years, $4mm a year. If it even takes that much to outbid anyone else.

Justin Tyme
06-12-2008, 04:21 PM
Yes, sometimes you have to take a chance. If you are going to take chances, why not a Livingston & Gerald Green backcourt?

Then there is that thing called reality. Where does the money come from to sign Livingston? MLE? That's not going to happen, for Bird has already said the Simons weren't going over the LT. Same as last year.

It's nice to fantasize, but then there is that thing called reality.:( Reality is such a stumbling block for a good thought/dream/fantasy.

Justin Tyme
06-12-2008, 04:44 PM
Where could the Pacers come up with 3-4 mil to sign Livingston?

Trade JO for Hinrich and Gooden. The savings in salary could be used on Livingston. The Pacers could have a backcourt of Livingston and Hinrich. Sounds great. Ok, who nudged me thus bringing me out of my fantasy and back to reality?

Evan_The_Dude
06-12-2008, 05:52 PM
About 3 months ago when I said we should go after Shaun Livingston this offseason, people said there was no way the Clippers would give up on him and no way we could get him cheap.

Back in January I said we should have attempted to trade J.O. to Dallas before the deadline and try to grab Devin Harris in the mix of that somehow. My reason was because Dallas needed a post presence and we needed a point guard. There's another idea that was shot down however by most.

There was also the Al Harrington to Golden State with Mike Dunleavy coming back in return suggestion I made... a number of days before it actually happened.

What do I know though ;)

count55
06-12-2008, 06:05 PM
Well, at least he'd make Jamaal and JO look like ironmen. This kid missed 50 games as a rook, 21 his second year...all before that disastrous knee injury. Maybe we try it if there are no guarantees, but I'd be shocked if he ever is able to play a significant amount of time again.

Anthem
06-12-2008, 06:15 PM
This kid missed 50 games as a rook, 21 his second year...all before that disastrous knee injury. Maybe we try it if there are no guarantees, but I'd be shocked if he ever is able to play a significant amount of time again.
I'm kind of in the same boat. Jermaine at least gave us an 80-game season and three 70-game seasons before he started to break down. Shaun's never ever been healthy.

avoidingtheclowns
06-12-2008, 06:20 PM
this reminds me of a section from a column dan wetzel wrote following shaun injuring his knee


But it seems Livingston never was meant to last. The body that allowed him that insane crossover at 6-foot-7 always was cursed. In three seasons in the NBA he's been a hobbled medical mess dislocated right knee, sprained right ankle, torn cartilage in his right shoulder, a stress reaction in his lower back. Then came Tuesday, when the knee just ripped apart while he went for a simple layup. He tore his anterior cruciate ligament, posterior cruciate ligament, medial collateral ligament and lateral meniscus. It is a wonder the thing stayed on.

...

The freak part was there was no contact to set off the injury. There was no awkward cut on the floor. There was no reason for it to happen. This, essentially, was what the 21-year-old's knee was destined to do. This is what his body was about.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=dw-agedefiance022807&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

wintermute
06-12-2008, 08:59 PM
Then there is that thing called reality. Where does the money come from to sign Livingston? MLE? That's not going to happen, for Bird has already said the Simons weren't going over the LT. Same as last year.


this is a good point.


Well, at least he'd make Jamaal and JO look like ironmen. This kid missed 50 games as a rook, 21 his second year...all before that disastrous knee injury. Maybe we try it if there are no guarantees, but I'd be shocked if he ever is able to play a significant amount of time again.

and so is this.

now, since86 may be right, that with modern medicine it might not be a career ending injury. look at jay williams, playing hoops now when it was thought back when he had the accident that he might not walk again. but jay has also lost the quickness that made him a lottery pg. he's been trying to come back now for 2-3 years and still hasn't made it.

now, shaun livingston has been rehabbing for a year, and still can't take contact. probably he'll get there eventually, but will he ever recover his pg quickness?

i'm all for taking gambles, sure, but the odds of this one seem pretty poor.

D-BONE
06-12-2008, 09:06 PM
RE: Shaun Livingston

PROCEED WITH EXTREME CAUTION!!!!

Not unless it's dirt cheap.

Or they agree to take Tinsley!

Hicks
06-12-2008, 09:37 PM
Where could the Pacers come up with 3-4 mil to sign Livingston?

Trade JO for Hinrich and Gooden. The savings in salary could be used on Livingston. The Pacers could have a backcourt of Livingston and Hinrich. Sounds great. Ok, who nudged me thus bringing me out of my fantasy and back to reality?

The Pacers could use part of the Mid Level Exception to sign him to that amount of money.

PR07
06-12-2008, 11:48 PM
I'd do it. I think worst case scenario, you have a solid backup PG off the bench. Just the fact that he's 6"7 would cause a lot of mismatches for opposing teams even if he's not starting quality.

croz24
06-13-2008, 12:20 AM
i think a $4-5mil/yr risk on a guy who could develop into a top 5pg in the league if he can somehow come back is more than worth it. pacers are in a position where they need to take such a chance.

croz24
06-13-2008, 12:30 AM
did anybody else here go to the circle city class in 2004 that featured a game between shaun livingston's #6 ranked peoria central and courtney lee's #32 ranked pike?

Shade
06-13-2008, 01:00 AM
I'd be willing to take a chance on him for a reasonable price.

Shade
06-13-2008, 01:01 AM
Prior to the injury I really wanted the Pacers to go after him, I suggested that the pacers should trade JO for him.

Is it too late? :-p

Mourning
06-13-2008, 06:23 AM
I'm all for taking a chance on someone, but this one I would definitely shy away from.

croz24
06-13-2008, 01:20 PM
shaun livingston is a guy you have to take that chance on imo especially since he's nearing the point of being able to participate in basketball related activities. i wouldn't even care if he sat all of this next year to make sure he was ready to go in 2009. the kid is 22 years old, plays a position of dire need this 2008 draft will not solve, and if he can regain his health, has more potential than any pg in the league not named deron williams or chris paul. if he's a bust, owell, we lose out on $10-15mil something we are accustomed to by now. if he comes back and can be productive, you have a solid backup-potential starting pg. if he lives up to the potential he once had, you have a top 5 pg in the nba.

potential risk: lose out on $15mil in total

potential reward: one of the better starting pgs in the league

sure the risk might be more likely than the reward, but the pacers are desperate for a star which a healthy shaun livingston can be. and i think the $15mil max it'd take to get him is more than worth that gamble.

NapTonius Monk
06-13-2008, 02:20 PM
He will probably stay with the Clippers, but if we have a shot at him, I think we should take it. It is a little concerning that he has been so injury prone, even prior to this. I'm hoping the time he spent rehabbing, he also spent working on the durability of his body. In any event, if he returns even remotely to what he was prior to the injury, things would look pretty good for us moving forward.

Livingston
Dunleavy
Granger
O'neal
Deandre Jordan (looking ahead a bit).

Anthem
06-13-2008, 02:53 PM
if we have a shot at him, I think we should take it.
What does that even mean? Of course we have a shot at him.... all we'd have to do is offer him a 6-year deal starting at the MLE and he'd be a Pacer. Is that a shot we should take?

He's not coming here for the LLE if the Clips are offering 4mil. And that's more than we should offer.

Justin's right. It's a no-go.

naptownmenace
06-13-2008, 03:34 PM
Maybe I'm the only one but I was never convinced that Shaun would ever be that great of a PG even before his major knee injury.

He had a good showing late in the season just like Marquis Daniels had a good showing late in the season of 05/06 but after this past season of extended playing time at PG we now know that he's not the answer at PG. Shaun reminds me of Quis a lot. He's slightly taller and maybe a little faster but ultimately I don't see him being any better. Add the injury to the mix and I think the Pacers should just say no.

Rajah Brown
06-13-2008, 03:39 PM
I saw Shaun play AAU ball a few times. He had the kind of natural,
PG instincts that Quis can only dream about.

Justin Tyme
06-13-2008, 03:57 PM
shaun livingston is a guy you have to take that chance on imo especially since he's nearing the point of being able to participate in basketball related activities. i wouldn't even care if he sat all of this next year to make sure he was ready to go in 2009. the kid is 22 years old, plays a position of dire need this 2008 draft will not solve, and if he can regain his health, has more potential than any pg in the league not named deron williams or chris paul. if he's a bust, owell, we lose out on $10-15mil something we are accustomed to by now. if he comes back and can be productive, you have a solid backup-potential starting pg. if he lives up to the potential he once had, you have a top 5 pg in the nba.

potential risk: lose out on $15mil in total

potential reward: one of the better starting pgs in the league

sure the risk might be more likely than the reward, but the pacers are desperate for a star which a healthy shaun livingston can be. and i think the $15mil max it'd take to get him is more than worth that gamble.


Again, where is it you think the Pacers are going to come up with 5mil a year w/o going over the LT? The MLE is out of the question! The Simons are NOT going over the LT... PERIOD! It was made perfectly clear that's not going to happen. When Herb came out and said he'd be getting more involved he wasn't blowing hot air. He writes the checks, not fans on a forum who wants to spend his money on chance that an injured player might heal enough to play let alone be a top 5 player at a position the Pacers have a desperate need. That's compounding one possible chance on another possible chance.

Whoz going to be paying for the doctors, trainers, and rehab? Livingston? Why would the Simons be willing to pay Livingston 5mil for not playing the 09 season to make sure he can play in 2010? I'm going to go out on a limb and take a wild guess the Simons are extremely tired of paying money out of their pockets for another player who can't/won't play.

Every year that Livingston's salary puts the Pacers over the LT his salary costs the Simons double. That 15 mil could cost the Simons 30 mil. That 30 mil can go towards uninjured players capable of playing and contributing on a daily basis, ones that can help this team win thus sell tickets, and not on a player injured with no guarantee of ever getting his health back or let alone ever being a top 5 PG.

Why would the Simons want to invest this type of money in Livingston when they did with JB, and we know how that turned out. I know different player, different injury. Add up what JB earned then divide it by the games he played, then figure out how much the Simons have paid JO and Tinsley for games not played. Now, why would the Simons be willing to spent the money on Livingston? The Simons are too shrewd of business men to invest this type of money in Livingston. Remember, it comes out of their pockets taking a chance not posters on a forum. Bottom line this isn't going to happen, it's just a fantasy of wishful fans waiting around on the 08 draft with time on their hands.

Anthem
06-13-2008, 04:03 PM
Again, where is it you think the Pacers are going to come up with 5mil a year w/o going over the LT?
I can't see the original post you're reacting to, but I think perhaps you're being too generous here. I assume croz is suggesting that we offer a 3-year, 5-mil contract? And that by the third year the kid will be ready to play?

Here's the problem with that. Once his contract is up, the kid could leave again. If we're going to wait, why not do it on LA's dime? They'll offer him a 2-year deal, and we can look at him once the deal is up.






I can't believe we're spending this much time talking about a guy who may never play ball again.

JayRedd
06-13-2008, 05:10 PM
I can't support this.

croz24
06-13-2008, 05:38 PM
I can't see the original post you're reacting to, but I think perhaps you're being too generous here. I assume croz is suggesting that we offer a 3-year, 5-mil contract? And that by the third year the kid will be ready to play?

Here's the problem with that. Once his contract is up, the kid could leave again. If we're going to wait, why not do it on LA's dime? They'll offer him a 2-year deal, and we can look at him once the deal is up.






I can't believe we're spending this much time talking about a guy who may never play ball again.

right, because the pacers would be in perfect position to acquire a potentially healthy shaun livingston 2 years from now :rolleyes:

RomanGabriel
06-13-2008, 06:37 PM
Fully recognizing that it's easy for us to play with the Simons' money, this is the kind of move teams in our position have to throw the dice on. From what I've heard, Livingston's knee is progressing well (remember, right after this happened amputation was being considered!). There's going to be a small window of opportunity to gamble here, and IMHO we should move on him. Someone compared him to Marquis Daniels - sorry, but I saw this kid play and remember, he was the 4th overall pick in the draft - he was the real deal. We're talking tremendous upside here! Of course it would be a gamble, but chances at this kind of talent don't often come our way. I hope like hell that we're doing our due diligence here and seriously considering giving him a shot while we can.

Arcadian
06-13-2008, 06:51 PM
It is more than just Shaun's current injury. He has been hurt all through his career. If we go this route we might as well sign JO to an extension assuming that he will play a heathy season.

Also I'm not sure he is the real deal as a point. His best year he was playing beside Cassell.

Anthem
06-13-2008, 10:05 PM
Fully recognizing that it's easy for us to play with the Simons' money, this is the kind of move teams in our position have to throw the dice on.
Then please respond to this post:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showpost.php?p=735583&postcount=27



EDIT: This kind of mentality is why I didn't pay property taxes in Vegas. The time to gamble big is when you're up. When you're down, you take the safe bet or you'll end up so far behind that you never come out.

RomanGabriel
06-13-2008, 10:45 PM
Then please respond to this post:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showpost.php?p=735583&postcount=27



EDIT: This kind of mentality is why I didn't pay property taxes in Vegas. The time to gamble big is when you're up. When you're down, you take the safe bet or you'll end up so far behind that you never come out.

Notice that I said we need to do our due diligence first. If we determine that his knee is J. Bender-like, then we pass. If we find that he's good to go, good luck trying to outbid everybody. I'm thinking our only shot is if there's still some reasonable question, hence the gamble. I'm telling you, I've seen this kid play and he's special. And he's still 22 years old.

Anthem
06-13-2008, 10:58 PM
Notice that I said we need to do our due diligence first. If we determine that his knee is J. Bender-like, then we pass. If we find that he's good to go, good luck trying to outbid everybody. I'm thinking our only shot is if there's still some reasonable question, hence the gamble. I'm telling you, I've seen this kid play and he's special. And he's still 22 years old.
You clearly didn't follow the link.

jeffg-body
06-13-2008, 11:29 PM
I have pondered and pondered the kids abilities versus the nasty way his knee injury had come down. He was clearly coming on the upside of his career and I would like to see a healthy Shaun Livingston PG for our Pacers. If it takes more rehabbing prior to the season why not let him ride the pine and continue to rehab that knee.Imagine a back court with:

Shawn L/Diener/#41
Danny G/Dunleavy/Rush
Dunleavy/Danny G/ Graham
JO/Murph/Swilliams/Murphy
Foster/Murphy/JO/ #11

dohman
06-14-2008, 01:57 AM
take a chance.... Columbus did!

Justin Tyme
06-14-2008, 08:03 AM
take a chance.... Columbus did!


You forgot to say Columbus was using someone else's money when the chance was taken, and not his own. Columbus NEVER discovered the wealth he expected to find on any of his numerous voyages to America. Not to mention he wasn't the 1st European to discover America.

count55
06-14-2008, 08:19 AM
You forgot to say Columbus was using someone else's money when the chance was taken, and not his own. Columbus NEVER discovered the wealth he expected to find on any of his numerous voyages to America. Not to mention he wasn't the 1st European to discover America.

And that fact that he didn't actually find what he was seeking.

Mourning
06-14-2008, 12:33 PM
Notice that I said we need to do our due diligence first. If we determine that his knee is J. Bender-like, then we pass. If we find that he's good to go, good luck trying to outbid everybody. I'm thinking our only shot is if there's still some reasonable question, hence the gamble. I'm telling you, I've seen this kid play and he's special. And he's still 22 years old.

Look. I have no doubt that Shaun posseses enormous quality in basketball talent. There's nobody really disputing that.

I also don't think most people have that much of a problem with taking a little risk on a player, but the thing is... like you pointed out, he's only 22 years old and has allready has an injury history that's worse then a lot of veteran players and not the little strain's sort of injuries either, but more like the sort of things that make me very, very weary. Who's to say he can come back to play at the level he used to play. Not only because of physical possibilities after those injuries, but also maybe mental blows you get.

IF I would get injured that badly so many times and so out of nowhere each time... I know I would maybe get a little insecure or hesitant to go completely all out, which is what you need to do as an NBA player. In other words I think you might get a player not only a physical injury history, but also maybe now with a psychological problem or barrier.

Again, I'm not against taking some risks, but this one I would not touch and CERTAINLY not for 4-5m a year with consecutive years for contractlength.

Just my :twocents: :).

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

imawhat
06-14-2008, 12:49 PM
Right now, the Pacers need someone that's dependable; that should be obvious after 7 years with Tinsley.

I totally understand why it'd be a big payoff if his knee is fine, but there're too many other problems with Shaun. I'm saying Bender, Tinsley, etc. (and conversely, successful teams like Detroit who have minimal injury issues) should have taught everyone a lesson.

RomanGabriel
06-14-2008, 01:10 PM
[quote=Mourning;735877]Look. I have no doubt that Shaun posseses enormous quality in basketball talent. There's nobody really disputing that.

I also don't think most people have that much of a problem with taking a little risk on a player, but the thing is... like you pointed out, he's only 22 years old and has allready has an injury history that's worse then a lot of veteran players and not the little strain's sort of injuries either, but more like the sort of things that make me very, very weary. Who's to say he can come back to play at the level he used to play. Not only because of physical possibilities after those injuries, but also maybe mental blows you get.

IF I would get injured that badly so many times and so out of nowhere each time... I know I would maybe get a little insecure or hesitant to go completely all out, which is what you need to do as an NBA player. In other words I think you might get a player not only a physical injury history, but also maybe now with a psychological problem or barrier.

Again, I'm not against taking some risks, but this one I would not touch and CERTAINLY not for 4-5m a year with consecutive years for contractlength.

Just my :twocents: :).

That's why I would stress again that we'd need to thoroughly research this before even thinking about taking a chance. Makes me glad I'm not in the front office having to make decisions on these things every day.

p.s. Congrats on the Orange - they're KICKIN' A in the European Championships!

croz24
06-14-2008, 01:36 PM
christopher columbus was also a criminal

Anthem
06-14-2008, 01:47 PM
If it takes more rehabbing prior to the season why not let him ride the pine and continue to rehab that knee.
http://www.polishedscrawl.com/images/blog/mugatu.jpg

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Nobody's disputing that we'd take him if he'd sign with us for a 5-year minimum contract where the Pacers had a team option every year. But he won't. So if you think we should sign him in order to ride the pine, why don't you tell us how much of a contract you think we should offer and how long it should be? It will have to be better than what he'd get for staying with the Clippers. Are you willing to give him a Tinsley-sized contract without knowing if he'll ever suit up again?

After that, tell us where you expect to get that money.

Justin Tyme
06-14-2008, 04:12 PM
http://www.polishedscrawl.com/images/blog/mugatu.jpg

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Nobody's disputing that we'd take him if he'd sign with us for a 5-year minimum contract where the Pacers had a team option every year. But he won't. So if you think we should sign him in order to ride the pine, why don't you tell us how much of a contract you think we should offer and how long it should be? It will have to be better than what he'd get for staying with the Clippers. Are you willing to give him a Tinsley-sized contract without knowing if he'll ever suit up again?

After that, tell us where you expect to get that money.


Apparently, out of the Simons' pockets and not theirs.

Mourning
06-14-2008, 07:58 PM
That's why I would stress again that we'd need to thoroughly research this before even thinking about taking a chance. Makes me glad I'm not in the front office having to make decisions on these things every day.

p.s. Congrats on the Orange - they're KICKIN' A in the European Championships!

Yeah, thorough research is beyond discussion here, but I still wouldn't feel very comfortable about it. Glad indeed it's not a decision I get to make ;).

With regards to our national team... I'm extatic about it, but we are OTOH only two matches into the tournament and every good team has an "off-day" in such a tournament and we haven't had ours yet, while Germany for example allready has... In short I rather get that "bad" match now before we head into the knock-out phase of the tournament.

Also helps a little against getting too jubulent too early, though that has to be hard with the way they have played against the two final teams of the last World Cup and put 7 goals in their nets, while conceiding just 1.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

dohman
06-14-2008, 10:38 PM
You forgot to say Columbus was using someone else's money when the chance was taken, and not his own. Columbus NEVER discovered the wealth he expected to find on any of his numerous voyages to America. Not to mention he wasn't the 1st European to discover America.


But he did enough to get his own holiday for children to love him!

Justin Tyme
06-15-2008, 09:27 AM
But he did enough to get his own holiday for children to love him!


What children? Children of generations ago, not today's children!

Yesterday, was Flag Day, and most people had no clue. The American Flag has it's day too, and gets about as much respect as Columbus. The only reason people even remember Columbus' Day or there even is a Columbus Day is b/c it's a federal holiday. I'd venture 60-70% of the American public doesn't even remember the year when Columbus 1st came to America let alone the date of Columbus Day.

Young
06-15-2008, 11:40 AM
I have pondered and pondered the kids abilities versus the nasty way his knee injury had come down. He was clearly coming on the upside of his career and I would like to see a healthy Shaun Livingston PG for our Pacers. If it takes more rehabbing prior to the season why not let him ride the pine and continue to rehab that knee.Imagine a back court with:

Shawn L/Diener/#41
Danny G/Dunleavy/Rush
Dunleavy/Danny G/ Graham
JO/Murph/Swilliams/Murphy
Foster/Murphy/JO/ #11

Yeah Shaun would be a great addition to the Pacers if healthy.

It really is a tough decision especially for a team like the Pacers. I mean you can play it safe with everything this team has gone through recently. Then again maybe it would be a good idea to roll the dice and take a chance because we need to get lucky and catch a break.

But I don't know you would need to really have him checked out. There is no doubt that Shaun would be a good addition to the team on the court but the question is how much will he be on the court? He never really has played a full healthy season.

Hicks
06-15-2008, 11:42 AM
Time to get back on topic, gentleman.

imawhat
06-15-2008, 01:57 PM
http://www.wagerweb.com/sports-betting-experts/nba-odds-shaun-livingston/5460.html

NBA ODDS: CLIPS MAY LET LIVINGSTON GO
By Jordan Walters
WagerWeb.com Contributing Writer


Do you remember Los Angeles Clippers guard Shaun Livingston? He was one of the league's most promising players but then suffered one of the most gruesome injuries in NBA history -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iidSWc18KrY and hasn't played in 16 months.

However, he said Thursday that he will be cleared to have basketball-related activity soon.

"It could be within 2-3 weeks, it could be less than that," Livingston said. "But it's definitely right around the corner. It's definitely on deck."

That said, Livingston very possibly won't be continuing his career with the Clippers.

L.A. is expected to take a point guard with the No. 7 pick in the upcoming draft because it doesn't know what to expect from Livingston. His left knee was destroyed landing awkwardly following a missed layup against Charlotte in February 2007, tearing the anterior cruciate ligament, the posterior cruciate ligament, and the lateral meniscus.

An NBA source said the Clippers aren't expected to make Livingston a qualifying offer (the lowest starts at $5.8 million) by the June 30 deadline, making him an unrestricted free agent July 1.



"They obviously have a choice ahead to make," said Henry Thomas, Livingston's agent. "The ball is in their court."

The Clippers may be forced to make a decision on Livingston without seeing him play with contact. If that happens, they will probably bypass giving him the qualifying offer and attempt to sign him to a cheaper deal.

Livingston hopes to beat that deadline as far as contact drills, saying his work would consist of playing one-on-one, two-on-two, three-on-three and finally five-on-five.

"It will be some one-on-one, full court, where I'm bringing the ball up the court under pressure," Livingston said.

"I'd like to have my contract situation worked out, before I do anything, as far as any five-on-five, open gym stuff," Livingston said. "But if not.hey, I've been sitting out too long."

Including the entire 82-game season he missed this year, injuries have cost Livingston 181 games out of a possible 324 games since his rookie season in 2004-2005.

Hicks
06-15-2008, 03:06 PM
Man, re-watching that horrible clip is making me rethink this. Because it's not like someone landed on him. It was just his own weight as he landed the wrong way. Man.

avoidingtheclowns
06-16-2008, 11:09 AM
I can't support this.

i can support not supporting this.


And that fact that he didn't actually find what he was seeking.

your need to inject logic into these discussions is highly irritating.