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BigMac
06-12-2004, 11:51 AM
I know it has been said before but not enough recently for my liking. I want McGrady. Maybe even if it includes Artest (though I would prefer to keep him and get McGrady).

I don't like any of the trades proposed with Houston, Chicago, Golden State, Memphis, Boston, Atlanta, Seattle, Portland, etc.

I just think that if we can't get McGrady then we just might as well stay the course and keep what we have.

Please don't take any of this personally it's just on my mind right now. It's just what I see and want. That's my right as a fan and I'm taking it :D

SpADeD
06-12-2004, 11:53 AM
I know it has been said before but not enough recently for my liking. I want McGrady. Maybe even if it includes Artest (though I would prefer to keep him and get McGrady).

I don't like any of the trades proposed with Houston, Chicago, Golden State, Memphis, Boston, Atlanta, Seattle, Portland, etc.

I just think that if we can't get McGrady then we just might as well stay the course and keep what we have.

Please don't take any of this personally it's just on my mind right now. It's just what I see and want. That's my right as a fan and I'm taking it :D

I disagree, if Seattle is willing to include Allen or Lewis in one of the deals that doesn't include Artest, JO, or Mel Mel I would do it.

BigMac
06-12-2004, 11:56 AM
I disagree, if Seattle is willing to include Allen or Lewis in one of the deals that doesn't include Artest, JO, or Mel Mel I would do it.


OK, but my opinion on that is that Lewis is still unproven and Allen has been very inconsistent and never been a winner. McGrady is a very consistent scorer but has never been a big winner. The Pacers are missing a big scorer from the perimiter who can create and take over a game and Allen to me seems primarily a jump shooter.

I like both Allen and Lewis but not on the team we have. I personally feel McGrady is the best fit. Good argument, though.

Ragnar
06-12-2004, 12:00 PM
I dont see any point in getting Lewis. He plays a position we are already deep at. If we are going to stay deep at those position then I would rather keep the guys we already have.

Now Ray Allen is another story. If we could get him for Al and Pollard then I would be all for it. But I would also much rather see T-Mac in a Pacer uniform becuase he is younger and better. I would love to see a starting lineup of Tins, T-Mac, Ron, Jermaine, Foster. If Rick could get T-Mac to play some D we would be set for a long time.

Keep Brewer and yes even AJ trade any combo of Bender, Al, Freddie, Scot, Primo and Cro and I would be more happy as a Pacer fan than I have been in a long time. I might even be able to get over Brad Miller.

Snickers
06-12-2004, 12:04 PM
McGrady would be a fantastic player for any team, but you've got to be careful when you have a team like this. We were on the brink of the finals this year, and will be back again next year. And probably for several years to come.

I would trade anybody but JO or Ron [and probably Tins too] to get Tmac. If you include those three guys, you're cutting into the core of this team.

Of course, I do want to improve this team, and we have some needs that must be addressed. But look at what Detroit did this season with acquiring Rasheed. They had a pretty good team before they got him [not as good as ours], and they managed to add him to their core [Ben, Rip and Chauncey]. Now they're 2 wins away from a title.

I want Tmac too, but not if it means disrupting our core.

SpADeD
06-12-2004, 12:06 PM
I might even be able to get over Brad Miller.

:o Someone getting over Brad Miller???? :confused:

:P

Snickers
06-12-2004, 12:08 PM
I might even be able to get over Brad Miller.

:o Someone getting over Brad Miller???? :confused:

:P

*sniffle* You had to bring him up again, didn't you...? :cry:

Suaveness
06-12-2004, 12:08 PM
McGrady would be a fantastic player for any team, but you've got to be careful when you have a team like this. We were on the brink of the finals this year, and will be back again next year. And probably for several years to come.

I would trade anybody but JO or Ron [and probably Tins too] to get Tmac. If you include those three guys, you're cutting into the core of this team.

Of course, I do want to improve this team, and we have some needs that must be addressed. But look at what Detroit did this season with acquiring Rasheed. They had a pretty good team before they got him [not as good as ours], and they managed to add him to their core [Ben, Rip and Chauncey]. Now they're 2 wins away from a title.

I want Tmac too, but not if it means disrupting our core.

Exactly. Couldn't have put it any better.

Ragnar
06-12-2004, 12:10 PM
I am saying if we get T-Mac without losing too much. I am pretty convinced that not having him cost us a title this year. So it will take a lot to make me get over him. If we would have had his size against Detroit we would have gotten past them (IMO) and look what they are doing to the Lakers.

bulletproof
06-12-2004, 12:11 PM
I think it's amusing that you guys think we could get McGrady or Allen without giving up someone significant in return. It would take Ron, in my opinion, to get either one of these guys. Besides, I think Ron is gone regardless. I've just heard too much stuff recently to believe that Donnie and Bird will put up with him any longer.

Ragnar
06-12-2004, 12:15 PM
I could live with Ron and filler for T-Mac. Its just that Ron and T-Mac would make me more happy than just one or the other.

Pig Nash
06-12-2004, 12:16 PM
I am actually starting to think that Artest will be the one thats gone next year. I think we're hearing all these al rumors and the teams that want Artest have to try harder to get him. It's just a feelin i have. I don't know what to think. I'm gonna wait until we actually do some deals before i set my opinion.

bulletproof
06-12-2004, 12:19 PM
I am saying if we get T-Mac without losing too much. I am pretty convinced that not having him cost us a title this year. So it will take a lot to make me get over him. If we would have had his size against Detroit we would have gotten past them (IMO) and look what they are doing to the Lakers.

Who is the "him" you are referring to? Brad? I knew it wouldn't take long for you to say something as asinine as "if we had Brad we would have won it all." If we had Brad we wouldn't have made it out of the first round again because we'd be stuck with Isiah.

But I'll play along with your game for second. Even if we had made it to the ECFs, you're saying Brad would've carried the team despite the injuries we sustained? Simply ridiculous. You forget the fact that Brad probably would've been among the injured, as has historically been the case, if he even showed up at all.

See, two can play the "what if" game. Except I have history and facts on my side.

Suaveness
06-12-2004, 12:23 PM
I am actually starting to think that Artest will be the one thats gone next year. I think we're hearing all these al rumors and the teams that want Artest have to try harder to get him. It's just a feelin i have. I don't know what to think. I'm gonna wait until we actually do some deals before i set my opinion.


I really don't think Artest will be traded. Honestly, I think the management is smart enough to know that trading the best defensive player for someone really good is a mistake. This IS a defensive team, remember.

able
06-12-2004, 12:32 PM
I think it's amusing that you guys think we could get McGrady or Allen without giving up someone significant in return. It would take Ron, in my opinion, to get either one of these guys. Besides, I think Ron is gone regardless. I've just heard too much stuff recently to believe that Donnie and Bird will put up with him any longer.

Now I keep reading you writing this and it sounds plausible, but.......

Without at least divulging some "facts" and "sources" this is worth as much as the reading on ESPN.

I'm willing to believe a lot, but IF it is true, I would like to know a wee bit more then just "because I'm a tellin ya"

It is also nice to consider IF he plays against us next year, that some team is "putting up" with his antics and that as a result he might be killing us.

Hicks
06-12-2004, 12:53 PM
I am actually starting to think that Artest will be the one thats gone next year. I think we're hearing all these al rumors and the teams that want Artest have to try harder to get him. It's just a feelin i have. I don't know what to think. I'm gonna wait until we actually do some deals before i set my opinion.


I really don't think Artest will be traded. Honestly, I think the management is smart enough to know that trading the best defensive player for someone really good is a mistake. This IS a defensive team, remember.

I bet if Ron's traded it will not be because of his basketball ability. It just seems fishy to me with his "migraines" and rumors of problems all year. I bet if he leaves, that's why. I think if those weren't at all prevalent, Ron would be easily untouchable no matter what. But that's not the case.

Suaveness
06-12-2004, 12:58 PM
Like I said before, many people are undervaluing what he brings. We may be a defensive team, but our defense will be SO much worse than before.

Suaveness
06-12-2004, 01:05 PM
Like I said before, many people are undervaluing what he brings. We may be a defensive team, but our defense will be SO much worse than before.

BS ;)

Basketball is a team game.. FIVE players make a great defense.
(as great as Ron is at it)

Yes, it is a team game, but you do need good defenders to help. Where would Detroit be without Ben, or Rasheed for that matter. Not in the finals. Great defensive teams have very good players to support it. SA had Bowen, too.

TheSauceMaster
06-12-2004, 01:08 PM
If Detriot would have had Sheed all season , do you think we would have still had the best record in the NBA ?

Look at Detriot before the Sheed trade they were struggling pretty bad and I doubt without him they would have been #2 and they sure wouldn't have made it too the Finals.

Also do you think with Ron's injury and everyone saying he wouldn't be back for along time , would we still have won 61 games ? I almost wish Ron would not have came back so quick , because I tell you what we would have never finished 1st in our Division and won 61 games.

TheSauceMaster
06-12-2004, 01:18 PM
Follow your thinking and the Bulls must have been a great defensive team. I mean they had Ron right??????????? :idea:

Come on that's a pretty ignorant statement , Ron was no where near the player he is today back then and was even more outta control then .

Suaveness
06-12-2004, 01:32 PM
Like I said before, many people are undervaluing what he brings. We may be a defensive team, but our defense will be SO much worse than before.

BS ;)

Basketball is a team game.. FIVE players make a great defense.
(as great as Ron is at it)

Yes, it is a team game, but you do need good defenders to help. Where would Detroit be without Ben, or Rasheed for that matter. Not in the finals. Great defensive teams have very good players to support it. SA had Bowen, too.

Rashweed is NOT a great defensive player, though good. He is just a good all around player that fits in exactly where they needed.
Jermaine is a great player and very good defender. Al is a very good defender. Foster is a very good defender. Freddie is a very good defender, maybe a great defender.
Great defensive teams like the Pacers DO have very good players to support it.
Follow your thinking and the Bulls must have been a great defensive team. I mean they had Ron right??????????? :idea:

Sheed fits well into their system, and he did a pretty good job on Jermaine.

JO is a good help defender. Al is not as good as he used to be. Foster is a good defender, but he's not great. Freddie is good, but as seen, his height is a problem, and he was posted on by Rip of all people. But without Ron, the McGrady's and Pierces would kill us on a nightly basis.

And that chicago comment is absurd.

Snickers
06-12-2004, 01:47 PM
.... But without Ron, the McGrady's and Pierces would kill us on a nightly basis.


But what if the McGradys or Pierces were on our side? ;) :devil:

Actually, I'm more of the opinion that while we're a good defensive team, not having Ron would change what kind of team we are dramatically. I've got no doubt Rick could make us a solid defensive team regardless of who we had playing, and we do have our share of good defenders.

But you shouldn't underestimate the value of having a guy who can handle guys like McGrady, Pierce, Allen, Mashburn, Jefferson, LeBron, Anthony, etc. without requiring double teams. He holds guys who average 20+ points to 10. Doing that allows the other defenders to stick to their men, which totally changes the opposition's approach, now that their offense isn't opened up by the defense collapsing around their star.

Pacer4fun
06-12-2004, 02:15 PM
I don't see it happening, our problems on offense were as much our selfishness in moving the ball and poor offensive movement as it was for a need for someone like a T-Mac.

I do think we need someone that can create his own shot, I like Murray from Seattle myself. I would like to see a bigger presence inside at the center spot, someone like the kid from the 76ers.

Ragnar
06-12-2004, 02:21 PM
Who is the "him" you are referring to? Brad? I knew it wouldn't take long for you to say something as asinine as "if we had Brad we would have won it all." If we had Brad we wouldn't have made it out of the first round again because we'd be stuck with Isiah.

But I'll play along with your game for second. Even if we had made it to the ECFs, you're saying Brad would've carried the team despite the injuries we sustained? Simply ridiculous. You forget the fact that Brad probably would've been among the injured, as has historically been the case, if he even showed up at all.

See, two can play the "what if" game. Except I have history and facts on my side.

Your argument would hold a lot more water if not for the fact that it is total bull****. Scot Pollard and Kenny Anderson make 6,379,000 and we did not use them in the playoffs. Are you telling me that getting Rick was a matter of 600,000 dollars? Bull****. Brad was dumped as a basketball not dollar decision. You yourself have claimed that in the past!

As a basketball decision it was (as I said before IMO) a stupid one. In the second round against Minnesota Brad Averaged 11.4 points 9 rebounds 3.1 assists and 1.57 blocks. We on the other hand had center by comity. Yeah we didnt need that from the center position :unimpressed: Oh and he shot 52% from the field again that just sucks right. What was that about facts on your side?

bulletproof
06-12-2004, 02:58 PM
Who is the "him" you are referring to? Brad? I knew it wouldn't take long for you to say something as asinine as "if we had Brad we would have won it all." If we had Brad we wouldn't have made it out of the first round again because we'd be stuck with Isiah.

But I'll play along with your game for second. Even if we had made it to the ECFs, you're saying Brad would've carried the team despite the injuries we sustained? Simply ridiculous. You forget the fact that Brad probably would've been among the injured, as has historically been the case, if he even showed up at all.

See, two can play the "what if" game. Except I have history and facts on my side.

Your argument would hold a lot more water if not for the fact that it is total bull****. Scot Pollard and Kenny Anderson make 6,379,000 and we did not use them in the playoffs. Are you telling me that getting Rick was a matter of 600,000 dollars? Bull****. Brad was dumped as a basketball not dollar decision. You yourself have claimed that in the past!

It's funny to me how you don't look at contracts in their totality. Brad's contract was for 7 years. So to make a comparison to any 2 players of your choosing is ridiculous. What was the sum total of Kenny and Scot's contracts? $16.6 million? That's $51.4 million less than Brad's. Guess that doesn't matter much to a guy not writing the checks.

bulletproof
06-12-2004, 03:10 PM
I really don't think Artest will be traded. Honestly, I think the management is smart enough to know that trading the best defensive player for someone really good is a mistake. This IS a defensive team, remember.

Wanna make a little wager? You don't have to deal with him on a daily basis. You don't have to put up with the BS. You don't have to keep watch over him wondering if today will be the day Ron melts down and jeopardizes your team's chances in a critical game or playoff series. You don't know how he's disrespected management on several occasions this season. Donnie's a fair and patient man, but I can't imagine him putting up with Ron any longer.

JOneal7
06-12-2004, 03:20 PM
T-mac always has that will to win. Sometimes tho the triple teams he gets are way to much for him. He won't see as much as a quick double on the pacers. Which will lead to him destroying defenses(yes even you detroit)
You should want mac, and i'd do bender,jones, al for him aswell...

Suaveness
06-12-2004, 04:29 PM
I really don't think Artest will be traded. Honestly, I think the management is smart enough to know that trading the best defensive player for someone really good is a mistake. This IS a defensive team, remember.

Wanna make a little wager? You don't have to deal with him on a daily basis. You don't have to put up with the BS. You don't have to keep watch over him wondering if today will be the day Ron melts down and jeopardizes your team's chances in a critical game or playoff series. You don't know how he's disrespected management on several occasions this season. Donnie's a fair and patient man, but I can't imagine him putting up with Ron any longer.

From what I gathered this year, did Ron seem to "melt down" at all? Not that I saw. I don't see why people are blaming Ron for doing stuff he did the year before. I thought that this year showed us Ron can behave and keep a cool head. From what I saw, that IS what I saw.

Suaveness
06-12-2004, 04:30 PM
T-mac always has that will to win. Sometimes tho the triple teams he gets are way to much for him. He won't see as much as a quick double on the pacers. Which will lead to him destroying defenses(yes even you detroit)
You should want mac, and i'd do bender,jones, al for him aswell...

Didn't Orlando lose 19 straight games this year? Where was that will to win then?

leon
06-12-2004, 04:45 PM
It just seems fishy to me with his "migraines" and rumors of problems all year.

I think all this doubting the legitimacy of Artests migraines is a bunch of BS. Has anyone here actually had a migraine? Has anyone tried to play basketball with one?

Ron Artest had surgery to his thumb and missed like five games! He is not a malingerer. He is as tough as anybody in the NBA. I can believe that he has some off court issues, although they seem much improved to me. However, this doubting whether he really has "migraines" is an unfounded insult, IMO.

Arcadian
06-12-2004, 04:51 PM
Ron has sat out before because of "injuries". He was well known for that in Chicago. That is why people doubt his injuries now.

I don't know if they are legit or not. I have never met the man. However, if he was protesting something the coaching staff would know him well enough to judge whether or not the migraine was legit. If he is traded I would assume that they weren't legit.

efx
06-12-2004, 05:30 PM
I don't think Mcgrady has any real will to win beyond proving to everyone that he is an excellent player. But that's something that can change with the right enviroment and the Pacers I'm sure would be a great fit for him.

bulletproof
06-12-2004, 05:43 PM
It just seems fishy to me with his "migraines" and rumors of problems all year.

I think all this doubting the legitimacy of Artests migraines is a bunch of BS. Has anyone here actually had a migraine? Has anyone tried to play basketball with one?

Ron Artest had surgery to his thumb and missed like five games! He is not a malingerer. He is as tough as anybody in the NBA. I can believe that he has some off court issues, although they seem much improved to me. However, this doubting whether he really has "migraines" is an unfounded insult, IMO.

How do you know his off-court issues have improved?

bulletproof
06-12-2004, 05:48 PM
From what I gathered this year, did Ron seem to "melt down" at all? Not that I saw. I don't see why people are blaming Ron for doing stuff he did the year before. I thought that this year showed us Ron can behave and keep a cool head. From what I saw, that IS what I saw.

Ron had something going on in the playoffs, friend. Something wasn't quite right with him. That's more than just from my observation. And again, what you saw on-court is one thing, and what what went on behind the scenes is quite another.

Suaveness
06-12-2004, 06:47 PM
From what I gathered this year, did Ron seem to "melt down" at all? Not that I saw. I don't see why people are blaming Ron for doing stuff he did the year before. I thought that this year showed us Ron can behave and keep a cool head. From what I saw, that IS what I saw.

Ron had something going on in the playoffs, friend. Something wasn't quite right with him. That's more than just from my observation. And again, what you saw on-court is one thing, and what what went on behind the scenes is quite another.

Exactly, which is why I don't understand why people can come to conclusions about how something is going on with Ron. No one here knows what he does behing the scenes, so how can we assume that there is a problem? Unfounded implications.

bulletproof
06-12-2004, 06:50 PM
Exactly, which is why I don't understand why people can come to conclusions about how something is going on with Ron. No one here knows what he does behing the scenes, so how can we assume that there is a problem? Unfounded implications.

Not unfounded at all. How do you know that no one here knows what goes on behind the scenes? That's quite an assumption.

Suaveness
06-12-2004, 07:48 PM
Exactly, which is why I don't understand why people can come to conclusions about how something is going on with Ron. No one here knows what he does behing the scenes, so how can we assume that there is a problem? Unfounded implications.

Not unfounded at all. How do you know that no one here knows what goes on behind the scenes? That's quite an assumption.

Let me rephrase that. If someone DOES know what is going on, i'm pretty sure the management would've told people not to tell anyone. That is pretty confidential information in my opinion. Otherwise, wouldn't they have told people by now?

Hicks
06-12-2004, 08:06 PM
It just seems fishy to me with his "migraines" and rumors of problems all year.

I think all this doubting the legitimacy of Artests migraines is a bunch of BS. Has anyone here actually had a migraine? Has anyone tried to play basketball with one?

Ron Artest had surgery to his thumb and missed like five games! He is not a malingerer. He is as tough as anybody in the NBA. I can believe that he has some off court issues, although they seem much improved to me. However, this doubting whether he really has "migraines" is an unfounded insult, IMO.

It's not that I doubt Migraines hurt. It's that I doubt he even HAD them. I'm implying the team said that to cover for him when he was acting nuts behind the scenes.

Ultimate Frisbee
06-12-2004, 08:15 PM
This rumor is going around the ESPN message boards... see what you make of it... It makes a lot more sense to me than Pacers acquiring the #3 and Pippen's rights for themselves...


"Pacers will trade Harrington , pick #29 to Bulls for Pippen and pick #3..

But Pippens rights, pick #3 , Bender, Pollard and F.Jones will end up traded.

To Magic for TMAC, DeClercq, and Gaines.

Magic will then take Howard and Livingston at #1 and #3...

Pacers are working on a way to acquire Dampier also ."

Though overall, our bench is gutted!!! I don't like that at all...

Kstat
06-12-2004, 08:20 PM
No offense, but if there was a "rumor going around the ESPN mesage boards" that the sun would come up again tomorrow, I'd wait all night staring at the sky for fear that it wasn't going to happen.

JOneal7
06-12-2004, 08:44 PM
T-mac always has that will to win. Sometimes tho the triple teams he gets are way to much for him. He won't see as much as a quick double on the pacers. Which will lead to him destroying defenses(yes even you detroit)
You should want mac, and i'd do bender,jones, al for him aswell...

Didn't Orlando lose 19 straight games this year? Where was that will to win then?
There is only so much you can do when you face 3 guys on you and your teammates can't hit a shot to save there lives. He scored 50 vs the nuggets and his team 49 and we still lost by 6...
If scoring 50 isn't a will to win then i don't know what is. Sometimes tho when it's crunch time and the games on the line...you can't be the hero with 2-3 guys thrown at you.

JOneal7
06-12-2004, 08:49 PM
This rumor is going around the ESPN message boards... see what you make of it... It makes a lot more sense to me than Pacers acquiring the #3 and Pippen's rights for themselves...


"Pacers will trade Harrington , pick #29 to Bulls for Pippen and pick #3..

But Pippens rights, pick #3 , Bender, Pollard and F.Jones will end up traded.

To Magic for TMAC, DeClercq, and Gaines.

Magic will then take Howard and Livingston at #1 and #3...

Pacers are working on a way to acquire Dampier also ."

Though overall, our bench is gutted!!! I don't like that at all...
Can we just leave Fred Jones out of the deal and gaines? If the pacers get gaines i'll officially kill myself, lol...

Kstat
06-12-2004, 08:50 PM
Can we just leave Fred Jones out of the deal and gaines? If the pacers get gaines i'll officially kill myself, lol...

I think if the Pacers get Gaines, a LOT of Pacer fans will soon be killing themselves.....especially if he is replacing Fred Jones :laugh:

%29 from the field? a GUARD? Fred Jones is reggie Miller by comparison.

leon
06-12-2004, 09:41 PM
It just seems fishy to me with his "migraines" and rumors of problems all year.

I think all this doubting the legitimacy of Artests migraines is a bunch of BS. Has anyone here actually had a migraine? Has anyone tried to play basketball with one?

Ron Artest had surgery to his thumb and missed like five games! He is not a malingerer. He is as tough as anybody in the NBA. I can believe that he has some off court issues, although they seem much improved to me. However, this doubting whether he really has "migraines" is an unfounded insult, IMO.

How do you know his off-court issues have improved?

I can't say that I know for sure. But given Jermaines comments about Ron being more a part of the team this year, the fact they made Artest captain, and the fact that he had only the one game suspension from Carlisle early in the year, it sounds to me as though his behavior was improved.

My question would be how do you know he hasn't improved?

leon
06-12-2004, 09:46 PM
It just seems fishy to me with his "migraines" and rumors of problems all year.

I think all this doubting the legitimacy of Artests migraines is a bunch of BS. Has anyone here actually had a migraine? Has anyone tried to play basketball with one?

Ron Artest had surgery to his thumb and missed like five games! He is not a malingerer. He is as tough as anybody in the NBA. I can believe that he has some off court issues, although they seem much improved to me. However, this doubting whether he really has "migraines" is an unfounded insult, IMO.

It's not that I doubt Migraines hurt. It's that I doubt he even HAD them. I'm implying the team said that to cover for him when he was acting nuts behind the scenes.

That doesn't sound like Bird and Carlisle to me. They generally are pretty straightforward in dealing with their problems. The game Artest was suspended by the team Carlisle had no problem telling everyone about his "detrimental" behavior.

bulletproof
06-12-2004, 09:52 PM
It just seems fishy to me with his "migraines" and rumors of problems all year.

I think all this doubting the legitimacy of Artests migraines is a bunch of BS. Has anyone here actually had a migraine? Has anyone tried to play basketball with one?

Ron Artest had surgery to his thumb and missed like five games! He is not a malingerer. He is as tough as anybody in the NBA. I can believe that he has some off court issues, although they seem much improved to me. However, this doubting whether he really has "migraines" is an unfounded insult, IMO.

How do you know his off-court issues have improved?

I can't say that I know for sure. But given Jermaines comments about Ron being more a part of the team this year, the fact they made Artest captain, and the fact that he had only the one game suspension from Carlisle early in the year, it sounds to me as though his behavior was improved.

My question would be how do you know he hasn't improved?

I know things.

bulletproof
06-12-2004, 09:54 PM
It just seems fishy to me with his "migraines" and rumors of problems all year.

I think all this doubting the legitimacy of Artests migraines is a bunch of BS. Has anyone here actually had a migraine? Has anyone tried to play basketball with one?

Ron Artest had surgery to his thumb and missed like five games! He is not a malingerer. He is as tough as anybody in the NBA. I can believe that he has some off court issues, although they seem much improved to me. However, this doubting whether he really has "migraines" is an unfounded insult, IMO.

It's not that I doubt Migraines hurt. It's that I doubt he even HAD them. I'm implying the team said that to cover for him when he was acting nuts behind the scenes.

That doesn't sound like Bird and Carlisle to me. They generally are pretty straightforward in dealing with their problems. The game Artest was suspended by the team Carlisle had no problem telling everyone about his "detrimental" behavior.

That says nothing of what that "detrimental" behavior is. Moreover, you assume that Rick and Larry are the ones who who have been dealing with Ron. It's been pretty much Donnie who has.

leon
06-12-2004, 09:59 PM
It just seems fishy to me with his "migraines" and rumors of problems all year.

I think all this doubting the legitimacy of Artests migraines is a bunch of BS. Has anyone here actually had a migraine? Has anyone tried to play basketball with one?

Ron Artest had surgery to his thumb and missed like five games! He is not a malingerer. He is as tough as anybody in the NBA. I can believe that he has some off court issues, although they seem much improved to me. However, this doubting whether he really has "migraines" is an unfounded insult, IMO.

How do you know his off-court issues have improved?

I can't say that I know for sure. But given Jermaines comments about Ron being more a part of the team this year, the fact they made Artest captain, and the fact that he had only the one game suspension from Carlisle early in the year, it sounds to me as though his behavior was improved.

My question would be how do you know he hasn't improved?

I know things.

Well, that's good enough for me. :)

You aren't really Peter Vescey are you?

bulletproof
06-12-2004, 10:14 PM
My question would be how do you know he hasn't improved?

I know things.

Well, that's good enough for me. :)

You aren't really Peter Vescey are you?

:laugh:...........................:unimpressed:

leon
06-12-2004, 10:21 PM
My question would be how do you know he hasn't improved?

I know things.

Well, that's good enough for me. :)

You aren't really Peter Vescey are you?

:laugh:...........................:unimpressed:

You have to admit. It makes it a little difficult to argue a point with someone who claims to have inside information without revealing what that information is or where it came from. I could just as easily claim to have inside info that Artest is a perfect angel who attends church three times a week. There is no way to argue with that.

bulletproof
06-12-2004, 10:41 PM
My question would be how do you know he hasn't improved?

I know things.

Well, that's good enough for me. :)

You aren't really Peter Vescey are you?

:laugh:...........................:unimpressed:

You have to admit. It makes it a little difficult to argue a point with someone who claims to have inside information without revealing what that information is or where it came from. I could just as easily claim to have inside info that Artest is a perfect angel who attends church three times a week. There is no way to argue with that.

I'm not asking you to believe me, you can choose whether you want to or not.

ChicagoJ
06-12-2004, 10:51 PM
There's a lot of stuff in here I agree with.

Thanks guys, for "unintentionally" speaking for me over the past day or so. :D




I am actually starting to think that Artest will be the one thats gone next year. I think we're hearing all these al rumors and the teams that want Artest have to try harder to get him. It's just a feelin i have. I don't know what to think. I'm gonna wait until we actually do some deals before i set my opinion.


I really don't think Artest will be traded. Honestly, I think the management is smart enough to know that trading the best defensive player for someone really good is a mistake. This IS a defensive team, remember.

I bet if Ron's traded it will not be because of his basketball ability. It just seems fishy to me with his "migraines" and rumors of problems all year. I bet if he leaves, that's why. I think if those weren't at all prevalent, Ron would be easily untouchable no matter what. But that's not the case.

That's what some of us have been saying for months.
I said months ago that if Ron had Jermaines personality he would be here until he retires, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.
Baby sitting gets REAL old.

Ron has sat out before because of "injuries". He was well known for that in Chicago. That is why people doubt his injuries now.

I don't know if they are legit or not. I have never met the man. However, if he was protesting something the coaching staff would know him well enough to judge whether or not the migraine was legit. If he is traded I would assume that they weren't legit.

No offense, but if there was a "rumor going around the ESPN mesage boards" that the sun would come up again tomorrow, I'd wait all night staring at the sky for fear that it wasn't going to happen.

AMEM! To all of that.

Ultimate Frisbee
06-12-2004, 11:44 PM
No offense, but if there was a "rumor going around the ESPN mesage boards" that the sun would come up again tomorrow, I'd wait all night staring at the sky for fear that it wasn't going to happen.

yeah... true... i just pose it as the most likely way that we could acquire T-Mac

rabid
06-13-2004, 12:15 AM
I'm not asking you to believe me, you can choose whether you want to or not.

I don't. In fact, I think you're full of *****. Quit attacking people's assumptions when you have no more basis to your views than they do.

And if you DO have some "inside info," either share with the rest of us or shut the hell up about it already.

Anthem
06-13-2004, 03:11 AM
I'm not asking you to believe me, you can choose whether you want to or not.

I don't. In fact, I think you're full of *****. Quit attacking people's assumptions when you have no more basis to your views than they do.

And if you DO have some "inside info," either share with the rest of us or shut the hell up about it already.

I was about to say the same thing. If you know something, share. If you can't share, then don't start anything.

TheSauceMaster
06-13-2004, 03:20 AM
I think somebody found my secret stock pile of special sauce :alcohol:

bulletproof
06-13-2004, 03:53 AM
I'm not asking you to believe me, you can choose whether you want to or not.

I don't. In fact, I think you're full of *****. Quit attacking people's assumptions when you have no more basis to your views than they do.

And if you DO have some "inside info," either share with the rest of us or shut the hell up about it already.

I was about to say the same thing. If you know something, share. If you can't share, then don't start anything.

You're right. I'm full of it. I was making stuff up just to have some fun. My apologies for getting you guys all riled up. I don't know why I do it. I need help.

bulletproof
06-13-2004, 04:29 AM
I'm not asking you to believe me, you can choose whether you want to or not.

I don't. In fact, I think you're full of *****. Quit attacking people's assumptions when you have no more basis to your views than they do.

And if you DO have some "inside info," either share with the rest of us or shut the hell up about it already.

Um, isn't that what I'm doing?


Oh, wait, you want me to tell you where I get my information. :therock: :shakehead: :crazy: :alcohol: :lol2: :rolleyes: