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Young
06-12-2004, 01:49 AM
I hate them.

- Al Harrington for Eric Dampier [S&T].

I see ED as so overratted. I'd rather start Foster.

- Al Harrington for #3 and Scottie Pippen.

I'm not a big Loul Deng fan. I see no point in a high lotto pick right now. Its not like we can get a Carmelo or Dwyane Wade there.

I was curious as to what you guys thought of these rumors.

Hicks
06-12-2004, 01:52 AM
Neither would have me jumping in the streets. I like Damp, but I'd rather get a SG first.

The other one sounds so-so. Never know what can happen with a #3 pick. Pippen either is a veteran presense, or capspace. Likely just capspace.

Both are pretty blah. I'm hoping for something better, and have the feeling that more or less I may get it some time this summer.

kerosene
06-12-2004, 01:52 AM
If the Bulls deal is real, forget Deng, get Livingston.

Will Galen
06-12-2004, 01:58 AM
- Al Harrington for #3 and Scottie Pippen.
I'm not a big Loul Deng fan.

It was said Chicago wasn't interested in that deal. That was more or less confirmed by Chicago not putting Pippen on their expansion draft protected list where it's not probable but possible he could be taken by Charlotte. Rumor is the teams are still talking. It's my feeling that Chicago wants the Pacer's to take one of their bloated contracts. Either Eddie Robinson, 2 years left at $6.7 & 7.2 million, or Jerome Williams, 4 years left at $5.6, $6.0, $6.4, & $7.0 million.

As for who the Pacers would take at #3, I'm with Kerosene, I think the Pacer's are after Livingston.

Snickers
06-12-2004, 02:05 AM
I wouldn't mind getting Livingston. My Snick-sense is telling me we'll rip off the Bulls this offseason. Dunno why, I'm just getting vibes.

And yes, I'm wearing pants. :blush:

kerosene
06-12-2004, 02:08 AM
I don't think we see the Dampier deal go down. Esp. if the Pistons win or come very close to winning the Finals. I think we're more in need of someone who can fill it up from the outside and create his own shot.

beast23
06-12-2004, 02:09 AM
Since we are already absorbing Pollard's and Cro's contract, there is no way in hell the Pacers take on another bloated contract.

Any scenario that has the Pacers getting stuck with a stiff and his high-dollar contract isn't going to happen. That would give us three high dollar players that would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to trade.

Will Galen
06-12-2004, 02:14 AM
Since we are already absorbing Pollard's and Cro's contract, there is no way in hell the Pacers take on another bloated contract.

Any scenario that has the Pacers getting stuck with a stiff and his high-dollar contract isn't going to happen. That would give us three high dollar players that would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to trade.

Ah, one of those stiffs would be included in the trade along with Al.

kerosene
06-12-2004, 02:20 AM
If that's the case I like JYD's game more but like Robinson's contract more :laugh:

SkipperZ
06-12-2004, 04:30 AM
I think Ive stated enough how I feel about Livingston

indygeezer
06-12-2004, 07:38 AM
Admittedly I haven't seen Livingston play, I've only red about him. So please 'splain to me why we need him? He's listed as a 6'7" PG. HE sounds as if he has some skills but not the speed. So, lacking speed he'd be a talented PG or aguy playing out of position at SG.
Why do we need him again? Are you expecting to lose AJ is that it? Or do you have little faith in Tins? Because from what I read it sonds as if he'd be an average SG at best or a really good PG...which we don't really need.

TheSauceMaster
06-12-2004, 12:55 PM
don't be surprised if they get the #3 to get Pavel ;)

Pacer4fun
06-12-2004, 02:01 PM
I would look for us to trade Al for E.D. and Dunleavy from Golden state. I think the Pacers see us getting the extra big man and a multi poistion player in Dunleavy. He played SF, SG and point guard at times for them. I don't know who else would be put in to make the deal work, but this is what I think they will do.

"Dunleavy had a monster game against Indiana, posting 24 points, 20 rebounds and five assists.
(Updated 03/03/2004)."

Snickers
06-12-2004, 02:28 PM
I would look for us to trade Al for E.D. and Dunleavy from Golden state. I think the Pacers see us getting the extra big man and a multi poistion player in Dunleavy. He played SF, SG and point guard at times for them. I don't know who else would be put in to make the deal work, but this is what I think they will do.

"Dunleavy had a monster game against Indiana, posting 24 points, 20 rebounds and five assists.
(Updated 03/03/2004)."

They love Dunleavy. I don't think they'd give him alone for Al.

Mourning
06-12-2004, 02:39 PM
C'mon guys think this through.
We were like 10 points from being in the finals. And if we were we'd be winning IT ALL.
Al averaged what 13 pts a game?
No *****ING WAY we're trading him for a high school player, pg to be!!!!!!!!!!
Tinsley JUST emerged. Not a huge need RIGHT NOW.
We desperately need scoring.
This team IS HERE NOW.
Not trading a NOW player for a MAYBE LATER player.
No way.
NO F'ING HOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

I aggree! I would only make the exception to players with the caliber of Wade, Anthony, etc. Those kind of players and I don't think there is such a player in this years draft. But, if we DO feel the need to take such a player (bringing down our salary+keeping money for investments later in the summer) than Livingston fits the bill best, I guess.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Mourning
06-12-2004, 02:42 PM
I would look for us to trade Al for E.D. and Dunleavy from Golden state. I think the Pacers see us getting the extra big man and a multi poistion player in Dunleavy. He played SF, SG and point guard at times for them. I don't know who else would be put in to make the deal work, but this is what I think they will do.

"Dunleavy had a monster game against Indiana, posting 24 points, 20 rebounds and five assists.
(Updated 03/03/2004)."

They love Dunleavy. I don't think they'd give him alone for Al.

True! There is NO WAY we would get Dunleavy as a throw-in. He would be nice to add. How about this:

Dampier and Dunleavy

for:

Harrington, Pollard/Croshere and no. 29 of this year?

Personally, I think they still won't fall for it.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Pacer4fun
06-12-2004, 02:57 PM
This was the deal that as I understand it was suppose to have happened at the trade deadline this year, but the Pacers pulled out because of the injury to Artest. I don't know who else was suppose to go from the Pacers, but if it wasn't to much, I would do it. I would have no problem with any combination of Croshere, Pollard to make it happen.

Mourning
06-12-2004, 03:33 PM
Oh, I thought Speedy was supposed to coem our way not Dunleavy. I think we could use Dunleavy better btw.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Snickers
06-12-2004, 03:36 PM
I think Damp/Speedy for Al/Cro or Al/Pollard has been mentioned once or twice. Not sure I'd do it.

Dunleavy is quite a player, but it would take too much from us to get him.

Arcadian
06-12-2004, 04:08 PM
I don't see the Pacers trading for another forward.

I definately don't see Golden State trading Dunleavy (who has more upside than Harrington) and a center for another forward and a bad contract.

If a deal is done I would say it would be for Speedy and Damp although I still don't understand why Golden State would be looking for another forward.

Ultimate Frisbee
06-12-2004, 08:19 PM
I posted this in another thread too, but it relates to both...


This rumor is being heavily discussed at the ESPN message boards...

"Pacers will trade Harrington , pick #29 to Bulls for Pippen and pick #3..

But Pippens rights, pick #3 , Bender, Pollard and F.Jones will end up traded.

To Magic for TMAC, DeClercq, and Gaines.

Magic will then take Howard and Livingston at #1 and #3...

Pacers are working on a way to acquire Dampier also ."

We basically lose our entire bench and acquire McGrady and a worse bench... I dunno

Hicks
06-12-2004, 08:24 PM
I posted this in another thread too, but it relates to both...


This rumor is being heavily discussed at the ESPN message boards...

"Pacers will trade Harrington , pick #29 to Bulls for Pippen and pick #3..

But Pippens rights, pick #3 , Bender, Pollard and F.Jones will end up traded.

To Magic for TMAC, DeClercq, and Gaines.

Magic will then take Howard and Livingston at #1 and #3...

Pacers are working on a way to acquire Dampier also ."

We basically lose our entire bench and acquire McGrady and a worse bench... I dunno

This is grain of salt stuff (ESPN message boards), but sometimes they've been right, so let's play. If that trade happened, our lineup would look like this:

Tinsley/AJ
McGrady/Miller/Gaines
Artest/Croshere
O'Neal/Croshere
Foster/DeClercq

Hmm. Awesome starting 5, improved backcourt, Center is the same. Suddenly thin at SF. But with a FA pickup to add insurance, I think this could work. Our depth is gone, though.

Snickers
06-12-2004, 11:01 PM
Hey, it fits into "Tmac for anybody but JO, Ron and Tins." Can't complain too much.

If that goes through, we can all start dreaming of JO-Ron-Tmac all on the court at once....

I hate to lose those three, who otherwise I'd expect to be valuable players next season [aside from Al, since he probably won't be here anyhow], but having a guy like Tmac makes a couple benchers seem obsolete.

I've always liked DeClercq, I think he might actually be a solid backup 5. Dunno much about Gaines, other than the fact that JOneal7 says he's MVP material ;)

As for the bench, well.... Austin might turn out to be a good backup 4, and we may be able to nab a decent swingman from the FA pool.

5: Foster
4: O'neal
3: Artest
2: McGrady
1: Tinsley
bench
[FA pickup]
Johnson
Miller
Croshere
DeClercq
Gaines
JJones
Brezec
Brewer
2nd rounder: Farmer :D

Above team needs: Bench help, and believe it or not, a promising project player. And a small forward. Go figure.

Above team has: Perhaps the best starting 5 in the league. Imagine two of the league's best offensive players [and neither is a slouch on D], and one who's emerging as an excellent offensive player [who's also the DPOY], with a PG who can get them all the ball and a scrappy big man to do the dirty work who doesn't need shots to be happy.

ChicagoJ
06-12-2004, 11:03 PM
We basically lose our entire bench and acquire McGrady and a worse bench... I dunno

Your bench is only useful during the regular season and maybe the first round of the playoffs (if you're playing a 36-win 8th seed.) In other words, you don't "NOT" make a move to upgrade your top-three just because it "MIGHT" make your bench worse.

Snickers
06-12-2004, 11:23 PM
We basically lose our entire bench and acquire McGrady and a worse bench... I dunno

Your bench is only useful during the regular season and maybe the first round of the playoffs (if you're playing a 36-win 8th seed.) In other words, you don't "NOT" make a move to upgrade your top-three just because it "MIGHT" make your bench worse.

If you've got Jermaine O'neal, Ron Artest and Tracy McGrady on the court, you and I could round out the 5 and we'd still be one of the best in the league. :D

I agree that while depth is good, quality is far better than quantity. [I'm still drooling at the thought of JO, Ron and Tmac....]

But still, I don't know how comfortable I'd be with having AJ and Cro as our top two bench guys. :neutral:

Ultimate Frisbee
06-12-2004, 11:42 PM
We basically lose our entire bench and acquire McGrady and a worse bench... I dunno

Your bench is only useful during the regular season and maybe the first round of the playoffs (if you're playing a 36-win 8th seed.) In other words, you don't "NOT" make a move to upgrade your top-three just because it "MIGHT" make your bench worse.

If you've got Jermaine O'neal, Ron Artest and Tracy McGrady on the court, you and I could round out the 5 and we'd still be one of the best in the league. :D

I agree that while depth is good, quality is far better than quantity. [I'm still drooling at the thought of JO, Ron and Tmac....]

But still, I don't know how comfortable I'd be with having AJ and Cro as our top two bench guys. :neutral:

I think we could also pick up a solid FA for MLE... perhaps Barry? although now we actually could use a solid SF/PF tweener..... haha! Swift?

Ultimate Frisbee
06-12-2004, 11:47 PM
I posted this in another thread too, but it relates to both...


This rumor is being heavily discussed at the ESPN message boards...

"Pacers will trade Harrington , pick #29 to Bulls for Pippen and pick #3..

But Pippens rights, pick #3 , Bender, Pollard and F.Jones will end up traded.

To Magic for TMAC, DeClercq, and Gaines.

Magic will then take Howard and Livingston at #1 and #3...

Pacers are working on a way to acquire Dampier also ."

We basically lose our entire bench and acquire McGrady and a worse bench... I dunno

This is grain of salt stuff (ESPN message boards), but sometimes they've been right, so let's play.

... exactly... I just see this as the most likely possibilty that I have yet heard if the Pacers really are going to acquire TMac... You really can't give them much more (except cold hard cash to top it off) and keep JO and Ron

Will Galen
06-13-2004, 02:55 AM
C'mon guys think this through.
We were like 10 points from being in the finals. And if we were we'd be winning IT ALL.

Talk about thinking things through! Well, maybe it's just your memory! :)

Both O'Neal and Tinsley were playing on bad legs. The fact is Tins only lasted three minutes and JO was playing at half speed the last game.

The only playoff team we would have been able to win another series against would have been Boston, and even that would have been doubtful. I wasn't glad to see us lose, but I can take losing to Detroit much better than losing to the Lakers! And that would have happened.

I still think we are better than Detroit, but only by the slimmest of margins, and only when healthy.

Will Galen
06-13-2004, 03:01 AM
I would look for us to trade Al for E.D. and Dunleavy from Golden state.

Dunleavy isn't going anyway unless it's a no brainer for GS. Dunleavy is reportedly a Chris Mullen favorite.

Chambizzle
06-13-2004, 03:43 AM
Even without the picks it works on RealGM

lol :dance:

Chambizzle
06-13-2004, 03:45 AM
Even though I would rather take Bogans than Gaines :\

TheSauceMaster
06-13-2004, 05:57 AM
I hate the offseason and rumors ..they just make you feel dirty :laugh:

Come on Middle of July , Let's let the signings being :pepper: :dance:

Ultimate Frisbee
06-13-2004, 09:43 AM
Even without the picks it works on RealGM

lol :dance:

Picks don't factor into a trades acceptibility...

Roaming Gnome
06-13-2004, 05:29 PM
I would hope that Donnie has taken a good look at the Warrior's roster, the changeover in coaching, the fact that former Pacer Chris Mullin is making the basketball decisions for them now and see that maybe there are quite a few trade options to be struck. :idea:

(I'm looking at how a trade doesn't hurt either team in terms of being conference or division rivals. I'm also looking at how we have some players they could definitely use and they have some WE could use. I'll tell ya one that works on RealGm. And you Baby Al worshipers can stop reading right now...

Al for Cliff Robinson and Michael Pietrus

Gives us a still productive, big, veteran presence who can play 3,4 & 5 positions and Pietrus, who I think is a Jermaine O'Neal in the making-a guy who hasn't had a chance to truly shine, but will be a top player in the league. I think that's the kind of minor tweaking that can put us over the hump.

But that's just one. There is the Foyle/Dampier situation & GS's high draft pick. I'm telling ya, there's something to be done tradewise with us and GS. Forget the Big name guys like Vince and T-Mac. :soundoff: This is where it's at. ) :crystalball:

Cliffy's got quite a bit left. Look at his numbers last year. They are comparable to Al's.

Cliff: 12 PPG, 4 Boards, 3 Assists
Al: 13 PPG, 6 Boards, 1 Assist

Shocking, huh?

But it's not Cliff who's the gem, and focus of the deal, it's Pietrus. The guy was a star overseas.

Check this out:


Facts/Analysis on Pietrus from last year (http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Mickael+Pietrus&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3EFB973A.8040205%40cox.net&rnum=3)

I've been keeping an eye on the guy since the draft. I think he's a stud in the making.

I think this is a realistic trade that isn't flashy but helps both teams. Cliff is one of those 'glue" guys that every team needs.

If anything, Detroit showed us how important a veteran presense can be. We got rattled..and it showed. Cliff ain't THAT old. He's basically the same age as Dale Davis, Elden Campbell, Reggie Miller and Kukoc.

That gives us a strong potential heir to Reggie, doesn't disrupt the team and gives us a more solid interior ala Detroit, with Cliff playing the Rasheed role. Remember despite Cliff's three point ability and scoring spurts, his claim to fame was always strong D.

Yeah, I think this is a reallistic way to look at getting something for Al. We tend to overvalue Al eventhough he has a lot of short commings. Not this deal exactly, but I think it will be a deal like this that involves non-marquee players will be reallistic in moving Al out of here and keeping most of this team together.

indygeezer
06-13-2004, 05:38 PM
Thank you Scott. THis is EXACTLY the way DW would look at things. We are this close...why shake the boat too much when a tweak can do it?

Tmac? Too grandiose a move for the P franchise. Nice simple JO for DD style move that kicks somebody in the butt later. This is a low key club. We don't make George Steinbrenner typw moves. But who canargue with what has been accomplished.

kerosene
06-13-2004, 09:36 PM
Pietrus isn't going anywhere. Better shot of getting Richardson. When Mullin has talked of developing the Warriors the first two names he always mentions are Dunleavy and Pietrus. Then Richardson, Murphy, and sometimes Claxton.