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thunderbird1245
06-04-2008, 07:24 PM
My NBA draft threads march on today with discussion of Kansas sharpshooter Brandon Rush.

Much of the discussion of this years potential draftees is about whether they can be stars in the league despite having ideal size or measurables for their projected roles. There are many "tweeners" in this draft: Bigs who lack ideal height (Kevin Love), shooting guards in point guard bodies (Eric Gordon, Jerryd Bayless, Russell Westbrook), and point guards smaller than the norm (DJ Augustin) There are no such worries about Brandon Rush from Kansas, who is a prototypical off the ball "wing" player who will be a very good fit for most NBA teams, having excellent size and body build for long term success in the league.

Rush is probably, from what I have seen, the best player in the draft at playing away from the ball offensively. He does many things from a fundamental perspective at a very advanced level, such as setting up cuts by faking away from the direction he is going to go to, and by cutting off screens low to the ground, so he is in shooting position with his knees flexed before he actually recieves the ball. In addition, Rush has a very impressive high release on his jump shot, which will help him be able to pretty much get his jump shot off whenever he wants at the NBA level. He wasn't asked to "read" screens often in the system at Kansas, but I believe his pedigree and skill levels tell you will do that well if asked.

Rush has some clear strengths and weaknesses offensively, and it will be important for him to have two things happen to him: First, he needs to be drafted by a coach who likes players who play in a traditional way. What I mean by that is he will need to play for a coach who likes a one guard front offense, so they can align Rush off of the ball along the baseline, because Rush is a pure "catch and shoot" type of player I think at the NBA level. This team that drafts him will need to be a team that runs plays for him, because he won't be all that creative in breaking people down off the dribble on his own, he will need screens all over the court to get opportunities to get his silky smooth jumper off.

Secondly, in order to play the way I described in the last paragraph, the team that drafts Rush will get the most out of him if they have a slasher/defender type at the opposite wing playing beside him, and a superior ballhandler playing the point guard for them. There is a perfect fit in the draft for Rush, one that is very very obvious to me as an analyst of the draft and as a viewer, and I will name that team later in the article.

Rush has all the measurables size wise you'd like in a player at his position. He is long, lanky, clever as a defender, is efficient in his steps, showing very good technical footwork on both ends. Rush isn't a great defender by any means, but he is not a liability from a physical standpoint. He will be good enough that he won't need to be "hidden" in a team's defensive scheme, and will more than make up for any defensive issues he has by being a very good offensive player, in the right system.

Rush is not a good ballhandler, either in making decisions for others or in trying to create for himself. While I project Rush as being very quick and clever without the ball, with it in his hands trying to make a dribble move he gets slower and more predictable. He will project to be a very good foul shooter in the league, but likely will struggle early on to get many actual attempts, because he will be somewhat easy to guard off the dribble, thereby not getting his defenders off balance enough to get past them.

So far, Rush hasn't shown much of a post game, but I project that eventually he may have this as a possible weapon down the road. I love Rush's high release, and someday when stronger and more experienced, he will be able to develop I believe a very good "fadeaway" in the low post, again assuming that he gets in the right system.

I project Rush to be, if he is drafted by the right team and the right coach, to potentially be a better pro player than many drafted ahead of him. He is in my view severly underrated at this point in time for a variety of factors, but first and foremost among them being that he did not fully show a lot of burst and "quick twitch" ability last year at Kansas, due to the fact that he had a serious knee injury, tearing his ACL, a few months prior to the season. I suspect that the view of Rush some people have may be influenced by that fact too much, and that they need to realize that it often takes a player into his second season after that surgery to feel fully confident and strengthened again, and to regain his explosiveness.

Rush played on a national championship team at Kansas under the classy Bill Self, putting together reasonably good stats although playing in an offensive system that didn't fully use his skills coming off baseline screens, or off of pindowns, "zipper" cuts, "philly cuts", or any of the other creative ways a halfcourt oriented coach will create for him to score. At Kansas in their Henry Iba inspired high/low pattern offense, Rush was often only a spot up shooter, or when he was screened for off their standard "staggered double" screens, it was very predictable where he was going.......in their scheme, he wasn't allowed to read the screen and "fade" he was required to continue his cut to meet the ball at the top of the circle.

Rush will be a better pro player than a collegian in my opinion, and if in the right system I project him to be on the all rookie team after next season. I think he projects as a slightly above average defender for his position, a slightly above average rebounder, and a superior off the ball offensive force. He won't be a great screener, but he will likely learn that skill in order to have another way to get himself open. Not yet, but someday if he works at it he will be a force to have the ball in his hands in screen/roll situations.

There are a few of other speciality situations Rush can really help a team with that will be fully realized in the NBA. One, he will be one of the better three point shooters in the league, enabling you to play him when you are trailing late. If you have good ballhandlers with him you'll want him in the game when you are ahead late, because I think he can be a fine foul shooter for you. A smart coach can use him as a zone buster against teams who sag alot (like Indiana). A smart coach will use him as a primary post feeder, because he will have the size to feed the post well, and teams won't be able to lay off of him at all. Lastly, in speciality situations he will be able to take the ball out of bounds for you, and be a threat to come back in bounds and recieve a screen for a late game catch and shoot on the side out of bounds, or recieve screens after stepping in from inbounding the ball underneath.

A huge amount of postitves for Rush I think, with just the limitations as a ballhandler as a weakness. But, he has to fit in to the right system to fully maximize his talents. Fortunately for the career of Brandon Rush, I think the team he will fit best with is in position to draft him, and I am projecting them to do so. Which franchise do I mean?

I expect the Charlotte Bobcats to surprise the world and select Rush at nine, creating a buzz on television and on this draft board on draft night. I have not found anyone so far that I have felt is a perfect "fit" for a team so far in my studies as I do Rush with the Bobcats. Larry Brown is the perfect coach philosophically for Rush, as he can use him like has used Reggie Miller and Rip Hamilton in the past. The Bobcats I think may be the most improved team in the league next season I think, because their pieces will "fit" together much better than expected under Brown, and Rush fills a need for them in the Brown system they don't currently have. LB will coach up Ray Felton, Gerald Wallace will defend the opponents best player and be a great piece next to Rush, who will be someone Brown can run plays for in the half court, and someone to help feed the ball inside to their bigs.

Rush is such an obvious pick in my opinion for Charlotte, it almost makes me wonder what I am seeing that everyone else is missing so far.

Now, I do not think Rush would be a good fit for Indiana, as they are currently constituted. Brown and his system is a perfect fit for Rush, but Jim O'Briens lack of screens and half court play won't fully feature the slinky wing man way other teams could and would. If you factor that in to your thinking, along with the obvious fact that Indiana already has Dunleavy and Granger (a somewhat similar player to Rush, but not exactly), and you realize that there is little logic to Indiana picking him at #11, barring a deal I can't envision yet. If for some reason that I don't anticipate Rush is available at #11, the debate will begin all over the league, this board, and in my own head about taking the best player available vs one who "fits your scheme" and needs. It will be a tough call for Larry Bird and David Morway if that occurs, but if we did select Rush I have no doubt he at least has the requisite skills and talents and size to be an extremely good player in the league. I just like him better in a different system.....I bet Rick Carlisle would love him almost as much as I am projecting Larry Brown will.

Keeping in my tradition in this series, I need to find a player from the 80's that I can compare Rush to. Rush projects to me to be a super good and efficient offensive player, who probably will be the ideal 3rd best playr on a championship team. Because I really like Rush and think he will have a very good and long NBA career, I'll compare him to one of my favorite players from the 80's: Ricky Pierce.


As always, the above is just my opinion.

Tbird

count55
06-04-2008, 07:30 PM
Well, then, if Charlotte takes him, we'll probably be the only ones outside of their war room not surprised.

Interesting read.

Will Galen
06-04-2008, 07:45 PM
Good post per usual.

I don't remember. Have you said who you think would be the best pick for the Pacers and O'b's system?

Rajah Brown
06-04-2008, 07:57 PM
I like Rush and his overall game. But I must have missed the
Kansas games where he showed the kind of consitency as
a shooter req'd to warrant setting up an NBA offense designed
to run him off of multiple screens to get him looks. From what
I've seen (and I've seen him play numerous times), he's pretty
streaky and isn't in the same realm as a shooter as either
Miller or Hamilton coming out of college.

d_c
06-04-2008, 08:29 PM
I expect the Charlotte Bobcats to surprise the world and select Rush at nine, creating a buzz on television and on this draft board on draft night. I have not found anyone so far that I have felt is a perfect "fit" for a team so far in my studies as I do Rush with the Bobcats. Larry Brown is the perfect coach philosophically for Rush, as he can use him like has used Reggie Miller and Rip Hamilton in the past. The Bobcats I think may be the most improved team in the league next season I think, because their pieces will "fit" together much better than expected under Brown, and Rush fills a need for them in the Brown system they don't currently have. LB will coach up Ray Felton, Gerald Wallace will defend the opponents best player and be a great piece next to Rush, who will be someone Brown can run plays for in the half court, and someone to help feed the ball inside to their bigs.

Rush is such an obvious pick in my opinion for Charlotte, it almost makes me wonder what I am seeing that everyone else is missing so far.


A good analysis of Rush as a player, but I don't see this part happening.

First of all, if the Bobs were that interested in Rush, they'd probably trade down with someone else, confident that they'd still be able to get their man at a lower pick. I don't see a team within the next 7-8 (at least) picks after Charlotte that would seriously consider taking Rush. If Jordan has any skill as a GM, he'd trade down and still get his man.

Second, I don't see how you can play Rush, JRich and Wallace at the same time. You probably wouldn't. You'd have Rush coming off the bench and subbing in for one of those two guys. After all those concusions and injuries from playing against bigger guys, Gerald Wallace has said he's done with playing the 4.

Regardless, I don't forsee Brandon Rush being the #9 overall pick in this draft.

thunderbird1245
06-04-2008, 08:36 PM
I like Rush and his overall game. But I must have missed the
Kansas games where he showed the kind of consitency as
a shooter req'd to warrant setting up an NBA offense designed
to run him off of multiple screens to get him looks. From what
I've seen (and I've seen him play numerous times), he's pretty
streaky and isn't in the same realm as a shooter as either
Miller or Hamilton coming out of college.


I think this is an excellent point to bring up, and I tried to explain my thinking about this in the original thread, but may not have done it well.

The "high/low" offense that Bill Self has utilized in his stops at Illinois, Kansas, and other jobs along the way is a derivitive of the scheme that Hank Iba ran in the 50's, 60's and 70's. It is a patterned offense that got out of vogue for a long time until Self brought it back into prominence. Mike Davis used it at Indiana and now UAB, and it used in several colleges and high schools, particularly in the south.

It emphasizes patterned movement and cuts based upon where the ball is passed to, not on how the defense is playing. It's primary advantage is that it relies on spacing the floor to create room for the post players to operate, and it requires little decision making from the point guard position. If I had a telestrator, I'd be glad to help draw some of it for you. It is played out of a 1-2-2 set to begin with, with the wings not getting any screens to get open to initiate the offense.

Anyway, my reasoning about the potential of Rush is in large measure a projection by me of just how much this particular scheme held back the natural offensive skills of Rush. It basically took away what he does best I think, which is come off quick screens and catch and shoot, and made him more of a spot up shooter reacting to how the opposing team defended the low post players, who naturally thrive in a system such as the "Iba" system Coach Self and others use.

There is nothing wrong with the Iba patterned offense, after all it helped Kansas win a national title and has been successful for many years at many levels. It just doesn't utilize a shooter and cutter like Rush that well.

Bill Self is not an "adaptive" type of coach. He doesnt change his schemes to fit his particularly personnel, he is in fact a "true believer" in the offense, so he runs the same stuff each year at each coaching stop. That's neither an indictment or an endorsement of Self, it is simply fact.

Therefore, Rush took worse shots in college than he will take in the NBA, if he is selected by the right team. He still shot a pretty high percentage, which to me is very impressive when I factor in that because his movements were so predictable and easy to prepare for, he often took guarded shots.

If Rush ends up on the right team and is used the right way, I firmly believe he will be one of the best picks in this draft. If he ends up on the wrong team (and I think Indiana is one of the wrong teams) I think he ends up being fairly mediocre instead of the very good player he has the potential to be.

Rush is just a very very good shooter, with the size and high release needed to maintain that skill for a very long time.

I compared him to Ricky Pierce in the original thread.....perhaps Byron Scott might have been a good comparison as well.

Of course, I could be totally and completely wrong. That's what makes this art instead of science, and is what makes the draft so much fun to talk about.

thunderbird1245
06-04-2008, 08:46 PM
A good analysis of Rush as a player, but I don't see this part happening.

First of all, if the Bobs were that interested in Rush, they'd probably trade down with someone else, confident that they'd still be able to get their man at a lower pick. I don't see a team within the next 7-8 (at least) picks after Charlotte that would seriously consider taking Rush. If Jordan has any skill as a GM, he'd trade down and still get his man.

Second, I don't see how you can play Rush, JRich and Wallace at the same time. You probably wouldn't. You'd have Rush coming off the bench and subbing in for one of those two guys. After all those concusions and injuries from playing against bigger guys, Gerald Wallace has said he's done with playing the 4.

Regardless, I don't forsee Brandon Rush being the #9 overall pick in this draft.


You could be right about the draft strategy of Charlotte being able to trade down and still get Rush. The only problem being someone else would have to want to trade up, and I am not sure that will be all that easy.

I may be misreading Coach Brown a little bit, but I suspect that he will want to move Jason Richardson, as he doesn't appear to be that good of a fit to me there with Brown as head coach. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Bobcats try and package Richardson and Morrison together along with others and get a player(s) who Brown would like better. Some sort of deal with the Bobcats and Blazers makes some sense possibly, although I am just wildly speculating.

d_c
06-04-2008, 08:53 PM
I may be misreading Coach Brown a little bit, but I suspect that he will want to move Jason Richardson, as he doesn't appear to be that good of a fit to me there with Brown as head coach. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Bobcats try and package Richardson and Morrison together along with others and get a player(s) who Brown would like better. Some sort of deal with the Bobcats and Blazers makes some sense possibly, although I am just wildly speculating.

Brandon Roy is going to be the starting SG in Portland for a long time, so the last thing they need is a guy like JRich unless they want the league's most expensive backup SG.

You'd also need to find a team willing to give something in return for JRich while also taking on his final 3 years and $40M. I don't see Portland being interested in Richardson.

I wouldn't rule out Brown eventually wanting to trade JRich, but it won't happen over the summer. His salary makes him difficult to move and it's hard for me to see the Bobs supplanting their best player from last year for a rookie who most teams probably won't even consider taking in the lottery. I don't see Brown being in favor of that. Not now anyways.

count55
06-04-2008, 09:12 PM
I think this is an excellent point to bring up, and I tried to explain my thinking about this in the original thread, but may not have done it well.

The "high/low" offense that Bill Self has utilized in his stops at Illinois, Kansas, and other jobs along the way is a derivitive of the scheme that Hank Iba ran in the 50's, 60's and 70's. It is a patterned offense that got out of vogue for a long time until Self brought it back into prominence. Mike Davis used it at Indiana and now UAB, and it used in several colleges and high schools, particularly in the south.

It emphasizes patterned movement and cuts based upon where the ball is passed to, not on how the defense is playing. It's primary advantage is that it relies on spacing the floor to create room for the post players to operate, and it requires little decision making from the point guard position. If I had a telestrator, I'd be glad to help draw some of it for you. It is played out of a 1-2-2 set to begin with, with the wings not getting any screens to get open to initiate the offense.

Anyway, my reasoning about the potential of Rush is in large measure a projection by me of just how much this particular scheme held back the natural offensive skills of Rush. It basically took away what he does best I think, which is come off quick screens and catch and shoot, and made him more of a spot up shooter reacting to how the opposing team defended the low post players, who naturally thrive in a system such as the "Iba" system Coach Self and others use.

There is nothing wrong with the Iba patterned offense, after all it helped Kansas win a national title and has been successful for many years at many levels. It just doesn't utilize a shooter and cutter like Rush that well.

Bill Self is not an "adaptive" type of coach. He doesnt change his schemes to fit his particularly personnel, he is in fact a "true believer" in the offense, so he runs the same stuff each year at each coaching stop. That's neither an indictment or an endorsement of Self, it is simply fact.

Therefore, Rush took worse shots in college than he will take in the NBA, if he is selected by the right team. He still shot a pretty high percentage, which to me is very impressive when I factor in that because his movements were so predictable and easy to prepare for, he often took guarded shots.

If Rush ends up on the right team and is used the right way, I firmly believe he will be one of the best picks in this draft. If he ends up on the wrong team (and I think Indiana is one of the wrong teams) I think he ends up being fairly mediocre instead of the very good player he has the potential to be.

Rush is just a very very good shooter, with the size and high release needed to maintain that skill for a very long time.

I compared him to Ricky Pierce in the original thread.....perhaps Byron Scott might have been a good comparison as well.

Of course, I could be totally and completely wrong. That's what makes this art instead of science, and is what makes the draft so much fun to talk about.

I'm relatively new to PD, and I've read some of your stuff, but...and I mean this sincerely...this is one of the best posts I've ever seen here, on RealGM, anywhere.

It's clear and concise. It addresses the question directly, and, perhaps most impressively, displays incredible depth of knowledge and understanding without being the slightest bit condescending. There is also not one shred of defensiveness or hostility, rather, it shows respect for the questioner that is too rarely exhibited in an internet forum. Just as importantly, it conveys the knowledge to the reader in a way that can be easily understood and digested.

My opinion isn't worth anything more than, well, really anything, but I felt compelled to comment. I just wish that I could provide even a fraction of this kind of content and post. I hope all will forgive my gushing, but I now really understand how you've earned the respect I've seen shown to you on this board.

Well done, sir.

pacergod2
06-04-2008, 09:15 PM
Tbird... i am glad to hear someone else thinking this guy is going to be a good pro. i have been all over his nuts for most of this draft talk. i would love to draft this guy and get rid of dunleavy, or at least have dun as a sixth man. i think that is what dunleavy is in this league because of his poor defense. i would love to slot rush as our sg and granger as our sf, even though as you stated they both have similar games.

ABADays
06-04-2008, 09:52 PM
I'm relatively new to PD, and I've read some of your stuff, but...and I mean this sincerely...this is one of the best posts I've ever seen here, on RealGM, anywhere.

It's clear and concise. It addresses the question directly, and, perhaps most impressively, displays incredible depth of knowledge and understanding without being the slightest bit condescending. There is also not one shred of defensiveness or hostility, rather, it shows respect for the questioner that is too rarely exhibited in an internet forum. Just as importantly, it conveys the knowledge to the reader in a way that can be easily understood and digested.

My opinion isn't worth anything more than, well, really anything, but I felt compelled to comment. I just wish that I could provide even a fraction of this kind of content and post. I hope all will forgive my gushing, but I now really understand how you've earned the respect I've seen shown to you on this board.

Well done, sir.

We all have that sense of awe at his posts :D

JayRedd
06-04-2008, 09:56 PM
Brandon Rush will certainly be a better pro than whoever we take at 11.

Anthem
06-04-2008, 10:28 PM
Brandon Rush will certainly be a better pro than whoever we take at 11.
I'm still in "somebody will drop" mode, but it's getting a little worrisome.

Great job, as always, tbird. I'd love to hear your take on CDR.

Infinite MAN_force
06-05-2008, 12:40 AM
Will he really be any better than his brother? Or put another way, if Kareem got into the right situation could he excel the way brandon might? They seem to have similar skill sets.

As far as the pacers are concerned, if we are drafting a wing guy he needs to either have a very high ceiling, or be a defensive slasher type, cause we have plenty of shooters. So I definatly agree with the sentiment that he would be a bad fit here.

AesopRockOn
06-05-2008, 12:48 AM
I'm thinking sixth or seventh man on a championship caliber team. So that means he's not for us...

Naptown_Seth
06-05-2008, 09:55 AM
I don't think T'Bird and I have yet disagree on a prospects chances to make it. Either we're both smart or we both drink the same kool-aid. ;)
The 2 guys I've jocked the most since about FEB are Love and Rush.


Rush isn't a great defender by any means,
This is the only part I disagree with. He was nearly always fetched onto a team's top guy, or current problem. Yes he sometimes was asked to keep up with smaller, quicker players or bigger, stronger players, but using his own game smarts (as noted by T'Bird) he made the most of situations.

Occassionally I'd see him burned on a cut, such as S. Curry used in an over and back move with an outside screener. But those kinds of things rarely happened twice. He plays smart and tweeks out his ability. And the Curry thing - KS moved him onto Curry after he had that scorching start against them.

I actually also somewhat disagree on his offense. When it's on it's silky, but I would not rely on him. He's a guy that can fill it up, but most of the time he's going to be your intangibles player, like a better Marquis (true SG/SF though, not PG at all).

Certainly a team could make him the center of scoring attention but I don't think that's really his thing. I'll keep pounding this view out there - SG version of Derrick McKey. McKey COULD score and that often frustrated people. Rush deferred to others almost to a fault this year. Certainly he had explosive scoring games, but sometimes even in the midst of a hot streak he'd pass up the shot in favor of a teammate.



Kansas players - Chalmers, Rush and Arthur - all have one thing in common to me, they play their position with solid fundamentals and none of them are one on one types. However they use true NBA caliber fundamentals, not the slow/clunky stuff that is usually implied when speaking of an NCAA fundamentals type of player.

None do everything great, all 3 have holes, but Chalmers can effectively start up an offense and score for himself when needed, Rush plays the wing as noted and Arthur already has NBA capable post scoring moves.

If you draft them to do exactly those things I think you can get success out of your pick. Just don't expect them to be a Rose/Beasley athlete that can be molded into various types of styles.



Will he really be any better than his brother? Or put another way, if Kareem got into the right situation could he excel the way brandon might? They seem to have similar skill sets.
I don't think they do personally. K has the quicker shot for example and B plays off the ball MUCH better. Think of it this way, could Horace Grant really be better than Harvey, could Brook really be better than Robin? Not saying will, but certainly "could" is on the table.


but Jim O'Briens lack of screens and half court play won't fully feature the slinky wing man way other teams could and would.
I totally agree...but are we building a team or building JOB's team? What happens if you fire JOB when his type of players never pan out? To me this is a bit like drafting for need, you don't do it if it means you make a glaring error. How many 17 or later picks are truly going to have the 1 on 1 moves to score in JOB's style? Frankly I'd like to see JOB look at some of the 80's highlights of the Lakers ESPN has been running.

The Lakers would score quickly too, but they ran deep plays to do that. Double baseline screen to low post, quick refeed the post and cut through the lane to opposite corner follow through, stuff like that, every player seeing some part of a screen or two within the first few seconds of a play. They just got all this done and into a shot within 10 seconds. Rush in a quick running set of screens/plays would excel IMO, more than he did in the somewhat slow pace of Kansas sets.

OakMoses
06-05-2008, 10:18 AM
I'll join the parade of people who never quite understood why Rush was being projected so low.

My main thought while reading T-bird's original post was, "Man, it sounds like he'd be great on a Rick Carlisle coached team." I can't quite see Dallas finding a way to come up with him, but I see Rick as the type of coach who could use him very well.

LoneGranger33
06-05-2008, 10:32 AM
The Bobcats are about two things – hard work and maximum effort. With that in mind, we think that it is best to go in a different direction with Brandon.

Kegboy
06-05-2008, 10:32 AM
I've never understood why Rush is down on so many draft boards. I think Ford had him up to #15 and Phoenix, and I can certainly see him going higher than that. If Charlotte wants him, they'd be a fool to trade down and expect to get him.

count55
06-05-2008, 10:36 AM
He could be the opposite story to his brother...climbing in the draft to the top half of the first round.

Of course, it's difficult to tell how much of it is because his abilities will be more prized and how much of it is because the draft flattens out pretty quickly once you get past the top three or four picks.

Jose Slaughter
06-25-2008, 01:27 AM
I wanted to bump this up because after viewing Bird's pre-draft press conference I believe Rush is the guy Bird wants at 11.

Thanks T-Bird

Justin Tyme
06-25-2008, 06:51 AM
I wanted to bump this up because after viewing Bird's pre-draft press conference I believe Rush is the guy Bird wants at 11.

Thanks T-Bird


What makes you think that?

count55
06-26-2008, 10:14 PM
bump...t-bird...how does TJ Ford change your analysis, if at all?

Plax80
06-26-2008, 10:25 PM
Apparently Larry Brown knows very little about catch and shoot players or guys who played at kansas.

Or maybe he likes guys who can create offensively and get to the foul line or guards who can actually dribble the ball.......but that seems like nitpicking to me.

Isaac
06-26-2008, 10:33 PM
I don't think we are going to run as much as we tried to last year.

Ramitt
06-26-2008, 10:36 PM
I wanted to bump this up because after viewing Bird's pre-draft press conference I believe Rush is the guy Bird wants at 11.

Thanks T-Bird


Looks like you were right and he got jack and McRoberts as well. Nice call.

CableKC
06-27-2008, 02:06 AM
bump...t-bird...how does TJ Ford and Hibbert ( a guy that you think sets very good screens ) change your analysis, if at all?
Fixed.......;) I'm interested to think what TBird thinks about us drafting Rush now that we have ( what he thinks ) is a very good screener on this team.

maragin
06-27-2008, 04:33 AM
Brandon Rush will certainly be a better pro than whoever we take at 11.

I wish I would have been on the ball enough to throw this quote into the draft thread when it was hot, heavy, and on its "third scotch".+




For the record, JayRedd is my favorite poster here, and I hope he was right.

Kemo
06-27-2008, 05:23 AM
Here is a real nice video of Brandon Rush..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad4JPI1lBE4


I am so amped about this coming year...
Not that it is sinking in that TJ FORD will be running the point.. ALONG with our draftees ,.. and our already good core of Granger , Dunleavy and Foster.. with even a great backup in Diener..


I think both Rush and Hibbert will be awesome for us...
and they will contribute immediately I believe they will surprise everyone.....

The more I think about it , the more I really like this draft trade...

At first I was in shock at trading Bayless... but now that the above has sunk in .. I can't help but feel excited for our team.....and where we are going...



I just hope like hell that Toronto doesnt back out ..
it will screw everything up...

avoidingtheclowns
06-27-2008, 07:28 AM
For the record, JayRedd is my favorite poster here, and I hope he was right.

stop that. you'll only encourage him.

Plax80
06-27-2008, 08:37 AM
Here is a real nice video of Brandon Rush..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad4JPI1lBE4


I am so amped about this coming year...
Not that it is sinking in that TJ FORD will be running the point.. ALONG with our draftees ,.. and our already good core of Granger , Dunleavy and Foster.. with even a great backup in Diener..


I think both Rush and Hibbert will be awesome for us...
and they will contribute immediately I believe they will surprise everyone.....

The more I think about it , the more I really like this draft trade...

At first I was in shock at trading Bayless... but now that the above has sunk in .. I can't help but feel excited for our team.....and where we are going...



I just hope like hell that Toronto doesnt back out ..
it will screw everything up...


James "Flight" White has a great video from his Cincinnati days as well.

NapTonius Monk
06-27-2008, 08:46 AM
James "Flight" White has a great video from his Cincinnati days as well.

White was athletic, but had attitude issues. B-Rush is infinitely more skilled all around.

Justin Tyme
11-16-2008, 08:14 AM
Since I haven't been exactly impressed with Rush, I decided to go back and re-read at T-Bird's evaluation of Rush. After re-reading it, I was especially interested in the type of system T-Bird described for Rush and about what he had to say about JO'B and the Pacers in regards to Rush.

MillerTime
11-16-2008, 08:47 AM
Give him a little time guys. Hes only played 8 regular season games. He seems a bit nervous.

I say we all take another look at Rush during the All Star break

BlueNGold
11-16-2008, 04:40 PM
What is Rush missing other than a consistent shot? The reason why people like him is because he has very few other holes in his game...and the likelihood of him shooting better with some time is fairly high. I'm not worried about him at this point.

Anthem
11-16-2008, 04:48 PM
As I wrote when the Pacers drafted Rush, he is an NBA journeyman. That's all he is. He's not the Pacers' savior. The best he'll ever be on a good team is someone's 8th or 9th man.
Really? I've had the opposite reaction. I was somewhat down on him when we drafted him, but he's impressed me in ways I wasn't expecting.

His shot hasn't been "on" yet, but that will come. He's a much more athletic player than I expected, and can do more with the ball besides just shoot it. And while everyone talked about his defense, I hadn't expected it to translate so well to the NBA.

I'd say his ceiling is solid starter on a good team. I agree that he's still not a savior, but I don't really think anyone expected him to be.

Mr. Sobchak
11-16-2008, 05:01 PM
Rush's shooting is the last thing we should be worried about. His shooting will come around. He shot over 40% from 3 at Kansas. Great shooters don't regress into terrible ones in one season..

Shade
11-16-2008, 05:15 PM
Larry Brown is the perfect coach philosophically for Rush, as he can use him like has used Reggie Miller and Rip Hamilton in the past.

I just had this exact same thought today. And that scares me.

BlueNGold
11-16-2008, 09:24 PM
Prediction: Rush will have his first double figure scoring outing this month and have quite a few in December.

The rest will be history...

BlueNGold
11-25-2008, 10:53 PM
.bump.

Rush is ahead of schedule. The stroke is looking very smooth. The confidence is increasing. He is too quick, too athletic, has too high of bball IQ, works too hard....to not be a great player.

All Rush - All the time!

LoneGranger33
11-25-2008, 11:04 PM
Hahaha, B+G, I like the confidence - and Rush finally showed some of his own tonight - but he still has a ways to go. Still, it's nice to take something positive out of this heartbreaking loss.

BlueNGold
11-25-2008, 11:06 PM
Hahaha, B+G, I like the confidence - and Rush finally showed some of his own tonight - but he still has a ways to go. Still, it's nice to take something positive out of this heartbreaking loss.

Tough loss. I remember the days in the early 90's where we seemed to come up short all the time. Making the playoffs was a MIRACLE! People need to take heart in the fact this team is rebuilding and the best we can expect is to improve. It will be a fun ride back up....and I think Rush will be one of the key components. Mike Dunleavy is a good offensive player, but his days are numbered as our #2.

Haggard
11-26-2008, 08:34 AM
Tough loss. I remember the days in the early 90's where we seemed to come up short all the time. Making the playoffs was a MIRACLE! People need to take heart in the fact this team is rebuilding and the best we can expect is to improve. It will be a fun ride back up....and I think Rush will be one of the key components. Mike Dunleavy is a good offensive player, but his days are numbered as our #2.

amen brother...

Naptown_Seth
11-26-2008, 09:45 AM
Occassionally I'd see him burned on a cut, such as S. Curry used in an over and back move with an outside screener. But those kinds of things rarely happened twice. He plays smart and tweeks out his ability. And the Curry thing - KS moved him onto Curry after he had that scorching start against them.

I actually also somewhat disagree on his offense. When it's on it's silky, but I would not rely on him. He's a guy that can fill it up, but most of the time he's going to be your intangibles player, like a better Marquis (true SG/SF though, not PG at all).

Certainly a team could make him the center of scoring attention but I don't think that's really his thing. I'll keep pounding this view out there - SG version of Derrick McKey. McKey COULD score and that often frustrated people. Rush deferred to others almost to a fault this year. Certainly he had explosive scoring games, but sometimes even in the midst of a hot streak he'd pass up the shot in favor of a teammate.

The ONLY thing that has changed is that Rush has been way more assertive on a regular basis. Otherwise I strongly stand by my read on him. I had him as a 6th man type, borderline starter. I now think he's going to be a bit better than that.

I really disgree with T'bird on running Rush off screens in plays set just for him as it wastes his main talent which is to learn and read the floor on his own. Leave things open and he finds his spots. Let him make a mistake and it doesn't happen again.

Just like the Curry story where he got burned just once, last night he cut and wasn't looking for the pass. That s*** ended right then and a bit later he came back with a similar play for the score.

That's Rush, he's basketball smart in an all-around way and is quick to understand the team's need for spacing at any given moment.

He's already passing up Granger in his ability to drive to the rim. He's not far behind in defense.

He only needs to dial in the shot, that's it. And as I said in the quote, up till now he's not been a go-to scorer every night, he has those games where he's a monster but most of the time he's more of a Mr. What Do You Need.

Dude was a homerun draft for this team.

thunderbird1245
05-02-2009, 12:24 AM
In preparation for the upcoming 2009 draft analysis threads I'll start later in May, I thought it would be fun to review last years pre draft thoughts by myself and everyone else on the players who eventually ended up being Pacers.

Enjoy!

Tbird

Anthem
05-02-2009, 01:50 PM
Again, good analysis tbird. You missed on the "who will draft him" part, but nailed it with projecting his game. I didn't expect Danny's ability as a slasher to improve so dramatically, and I didn't expect Dun to be out the whole season, so Rush ended up being a better fit than I feared.

Infinite MAN_force
05-02-2009, 04:52 PM
Brandon Rush will certainly be a better pro than whoever we take at 11.

:D

Blink
05-02-2009, 07:12 PM
I remember reading these threads in internet cafes while on vacation in Mexico last summer. Thanks for the memories Tbird.

rexnom
05-02-2009, 07:49 PM
Again, good analysis tbird. You missed on the "who will draft him" part, but nailed it with projecting his game. I didn't expect Danny's ability as a slasher to improve so dramatically, and I didn't expect Dun to be out the whole season, so Rush ended up being a better fit than I feared.
I actually think he's blossomed into a really nice fit next to Danny. I've said it before and I'll say it again: you can win a championship with Danny and Brandon playing 40 MPG at the wings.

Anthem
05-02-2009, 09:00 PM
I actually think he's blossomed into a really nice fit next to Danny. I've said it before and I'll say it again: you can win a championship with Danny and Brandon playing 40 MPG at the wings.
I agree that you could win a championship with them at the wings, but 40mpg is just too much. You need a third wing that can play next to either one of them.

wintermute
05-03-2009, 06:08 AM
I may be misreading Coach Brown a little bit, but I suspect that he will want to move Jason Richardson, as he doesn't appear to be that good of a fit to me there with Brown as head coach. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Bobcats try and package Richardson and Morrison together along with others and get a player(s) who Brown would like better. Some sort of deal with the Bobcats and Blazers makes some sense possibly, although I am just wildly speculating.

reading back on this thread, i found this little prophetic gem from tbird :D

for the record, the bobcats did trade richardson (to the suns for diaw and bell) and morrison (to the lakers for radman).

Infinite MAN_force
05-03-2009, 10:35 AM
the Bobcats also tried to aquire Rush from us in the proposed Felton/Tinsley trade... so spot on anaylsis of the Charlotte situation.